Some numismatic thoughts, imagine!
Mr. Jaggers
company, and all the high-powered collectors he served over a period of 62
years, I got to wondering if he ever "handled" any of the coins I own. My
guess is that he did not. How many people who either post here or lurk here
own any material proffered by him? My guess is that the number would be
vanishingly small. Now, if Ira just happened to make a surprise cameo, I
might have to modify my prediction. But, am I right, don't most of us here
do F-VF buffalo nickels and such?
James the Poverty-Stricken
oly
I own a 1777 dated Mexican 8 Reales and a 1703 dated French Ecu of
Louis XIV, both of which came out of old mail-bid sales by Stack's
"Coin Galleries" division. I got the Mexican coin in 1978 and the
French coin about 2002 and still have the printed "Coin Galleries"
auction envelopes for both. It's not big time, "plate coin", U.S.
numismatics, but do those two pieces (possibly) count???
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Only if they were specifically and personally proffered by The Man and not
some hired flunkie.
BTW, does that �cu have that most unflattering profile of Louis Quatorze,
complete with the blackheads?
James the Class-Conscious
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
My French Ecu is overstruck not once, but a least two times. Thus the
coin has been at least three different types of Ecu at some point.
The date that is visible DOES NOT correspond to the dates of the most
visible coin type. But it is not a fake, just overstruck many times.
The dire straits of French finances at the end of the 17th Century,
don't you know. The portrait of Le Roi Soliel is decent, acceptable
until money is available for something better.
The 8 reales cost $30 and the Ecu only $200 (a bargain, likely because
of the nebulous relationship between the date and the type). If Mr.
Stack ever saw these coins, he probably said "junk".
oly
Ira
Back in the pre-slabbing days, I'd won several items in Stack's
auctions. Although I no longer buy for
my own collections ( save for
for Mint offerings from force of habit) I discovered that I couldn't
get a single auction buy
from Stack's in a PCGS or NGC holder due to cleaning, suspicious
color, altered surface and the like. Before ANR and Q David threw
their hat in with Stack's, the latter eschewed slab material
of all kinds. Now, the bulk of their auctions contained slabbed coins.
Mostly PCGS from what I've seen.
Ira
Mr. Jaggers
Hi Ira! I'm not sure if that was a yes or a no. What was the question
again?
James the Flummoxed
oly
The Great Oz shows that he too knows how to nicely "place a shiv".
oly
Ira
There were two questions that James asked I believe. I have never
dealt directly with Mr. Stack to the best of my knowledge. I was
buying circulated Lincolns and Indian head cents for myself until
about 1971 or so. Then. I bought a strong XF 1909s Vdb from David Hall
himself from Western Coin Exhange in Los Angeles for $100! It was a
real beauty. Then I sent Mr Hall a couple of thousand bucks and had
him select some nice type coins for me. I got an unc 3c nickel, a
choice unc 1875 twenty center, a VF bust dollar and several others. I
was hooked!
I can't speak to what most clectors on RCC collect, but I imagine
pennies, nickels and Morgans would be typical. Not so on the PCGS
forums, but that would be expected. I don't post much there.
Oly, I don't get what you mean when you say I know how to nicely place
a shiv. You mean about my early experiences witn Stack's? Just like
Kodak, I believe they were far toate in recognizing the winds of
change. But unlike Stack's, no Q Davud Bowers came along to rescue
them.
Ira
Ira
winwin
> get a single auction buy
> from Stack's in a PCGS or NGC holder due to cleaning, suspicious
> color, altered surface and the like.
Whenever I hear of Stack's, I'm reminded of the "missing" 1913
Liberty nickle that was thrown in a closet when Stacks told
the family it was counterfeit. There it languished for decades.
Roger Hunt
Mr. Jaggers
oly
> Roger Hunt wrote:
> > winwin <winwinscena...@aol.com> wrote
> >> I discovered that I couldn't
> >>> get a single auction buy
> >>> from Stack's in a PCGS or NGC holder due to cleaning, suspicious
> >>> color, altered surface and the like.
>
> >> Whenever I hear of Stack's, I'm reminded of the "missing" 1913
> >> Liberty nickle that was thrown in a closet when Stacks told
> >> the family it was counterfeit. There it languished for decades.
>
> > When did this coin finally come out of the closet?
>
IMHO, the long "break" in the provenance of this specimen makes it the
least desireable of the five known "genuine" examples of the 1913 V
nickel.
IMHO, provenance is really very important for the top dollar U.S.
numismatic rarities and will only continue to gain in importance as
[if] prices further escalate and fakes become better and better.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I keep hearing this mantra. In its limiting case, no unknown coin that
eventually comes to light after a certain cutoff date will ever be accepted
into the community of collectors. Until that cutoff date, everything lies
on a continuum that indicates that the longer a coin has been known, the
more likely it is that it is genuine. Not to wish my life away, but I hope
I will have joined the Great Majority before that becomes reality.
James the Mortal
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
That may well be true for the most expensive U.S. coins. Economically
lesser coins, lesser concern - although it is always great if you have
the "old auction envelopes" or other documentation.
You can't just waltz into Antiques Roadshow with a nicely done small
European oil painting and call it a DaVinci - you're gonna get asked
where it came from. Why is that too much to ask, academically and/or
economically???
Also, the quality of the fakes coming out today is just amazing. This
spurs the added value of "provenance".
oly
PC
"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3b8a3740-8ffc-4051...@g1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
That may well be true for the most expensive U.S. coins. Economically
lesser coins, lesser concern - although it is always great if you have
the "old auction envelopes" or other documentation.
>>>
I bet if "half-breeds" or "leftist gay elites" use the coins then their
value goes down, right?
Mr. Jaggers
An "old auction envelope" isn't any more conclusive than a label that has
been cracked out of a slab.
> You can't just waltz into Antiques Roadshow with a nicely done small
> European oil painting and call it a DaVinci - you're gonna get asked
> where it came from. Why is that too much to ask, academically and/or
> economically???
I most certainly *can* so waltz. In situations like this, the appraiser is
not interested in any cock-and-bull story I might give him - he's heard it
all before. He's going to determine authenticity for himself, and to his
own satisfaction, and my testimony is worth zero.
> Also, the quality of the fakes coming out today is just amazing. This
> spurs the added value of "provenance".
No argument from me about the quality of the fakes. I've been harping about
that in these pages for a long time. But provenance can be faked even more
easily than the coins themselves. If you don't believe that, read the text
of some online auctions ("This coin came out of an old estate that hasn't
seen the light of day for ten thousand years").
James the Revisionist Historian
Mr. Jaggers
Shhh, I happen to know that several of the coins I own once passed through
the grubby meathooks of some extremely unsavory characters who really
smelled bad and had rotten teeth. In fact, I only handle them when I'm in
full hazmat gear.
James the Cautious
oly
> PC wrote:
> > "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message
Back when coin collecting was rather stronger than it is today (at
least in terms of popular participation), the bourse rooms were a
cloud of blue cigarette and cigar smoke. Many of the bourse
participants had only a tenuous relationship with toothpaste and
mouthwash. Shampoo was only a "Saturday night" acquaintance for
many.
AH for the "good old daze".
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Ugh, I remember that. Coin club meetings were no better, and I always
needed a bath when I got home.
James the Smokestack
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
You bet coin club meeting were no better in the olden daze, that's fer
shure. The quarters were also closer & tighter at the Coin Club
meetings too. Plus the Legion Hall or the VFW Hall had there own
crowd of regulars down at the bar in the basement; those folks spent a
very significant portion of their income on alcohol and tobacky, not
coins.
AH for the good old daze.
oly
Roger Hunt
--
Roger Hunt
Aladdin Sane
"Ira" <ir...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c64bca92-b6b3-403a...@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
I can't speak to what most clectors on RCC collect, but I imagine
pennies, nickels and Morgans would be typical. Not so on the PCGS
forums, but that would be expected. I don't post much there.
Ira
Ira
--
My personal favorite for collecting are standing liberty quarters, currently
I am putting together and AU - MS set. Then I will go back to work on my
walking liberty halves. Although, finances being as they are, it will be
some time before I acquire an MS quality 1916 SLQ. Still, there is always
christmas.
*
/?\
/___\
-O=O-
^
AS & His Magic Hat
A conclusion is simply the place
where you decided to stop thinking.
Aladdin Sane
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:h2l9i...@enews2.newsguy.com...
Don't lose hope James, Those days can return.
--