Re: Court order stops sale of WTC "freedom tower" coins
D Carr
I'm am happy to get the work since I get paid to do what I like to do.
They tell me what they want on the coin and I design it.
I don't think there is anything technically illegal or untrue in their marketing of this "coin".
That said, I would have done some things differently.
I'm not involved in the marketing of the coin in any way.
I did request that they (NCM) not use my name in the marketing
of the Freedom Tower coin.
I also do not know any details on how the coin was minted, or who minted it.
I only produced the renderings. But it would not be impossible for someone to
purchase a few of the PCGS "WTC Recovery" Silver Eagles, melt them down,
mix them with other silver, and use the mix to plate coins.
There is a strange irony to all of this. Now that the coin is temporarily unavailable
(or maybe permanently banned) more people will want one. Like it or not,
there is a collector market for WTC "relic" items (the PCGS WTC Recovery coins,
for example, carry a large premium). All of this controversy adds more publicity to the issue.
"Scottishmoney" <scotti...@charter.net> wrote in message news:10mqvqc...@corp.supernews.com...
> This story is also picked up on Yahoo and CNN now. Unfortunately I looked
> at the National Collectors Mint website and noticed that Daniel Carr is
> designing state quarters for Puerto Rico and DC for them.
>
> Dave
Bruce Remick
"D Carr" <dca...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jsibd.3458$gy1...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I think of the items I've designed for them as medals or novelties.
> I think NCM was initally told by CNMI that the Freedom Tower coins could
> be called "legal tender". Later, that was not the case. The
advertisements
> stopped calling the coins "legal tender". They were then called
"government authorized"
> or something like that (which is technically correct).
>
The TV commercials claim they are "government ISSUES" and "dollar coins",
while playing patriotic American music in the background. This implies
legal tender to most people. Who are these coins issued to? And what
government issues them? What venue will actually sell them at $49.95 after
this "special offer" ends? The average non-collector would obviously
presume that these are special coins produced by the US Mint, what with the
IGWT motto and all. Sure, the initials CNMI appear in the ad, as if
customers would know what they stand for (country? organization?) and what
they have to do with anything. I haven't seen an add with more fraudulent,
deceptive BS since the beginning of cable TV. Almost makes one ashamed to
be a coin collector. Almost.
Bruce
Byron L. Reed
wrote:
>I did request that they (NCM) not use my name in the marketing
>of the Freedom Tower coin.
Something to consider for your next contract.
BLReed
To e-mail me, remove the obvious spam trap.
For collector coins and supplies at fair prices: http://tinyurl.com/pt9r
Cool things and Bust Coin Forum: http://www.byronreed.com
D Carr
initially granted legal tender status for the coins. Later that official may
have discovered that the act was unconstitutonal and issued conflicting
and/or confusing statements. The advertising for the coin was changed
from "legal tender" to "government authorized". The "government authorized"
part is true - CNMI accepts royalties for each coin sold.
"henry mensch" <he...@xxx.verve.org> wrote in message news:2004101314114375249%henry@xxxverveorg...
> On 2004-10-13 13:05:54 -0700, "J. A. M." <jim...@pgh.net> said:
> > Spitzer said the National Collector's Mint says the coins, engraved
> > with "In God We Trust," are legally authorized silver dollars, when
> > they aren't.
> >
> > This statement is also not true. The coins are legal tender in the
> > Marshal Islands.
>
> no, they're not. they are identified as being authorized by the
> commonwealth of the northern mariana islands ... only problem with this
> is that cmni (as an insular part of the united states of america) has
> no authority to issue coins.
>
> --
> # henry mensch / san francisco california
> # http://www.henare.tk/
>
D Carr
CNMI receives royaltes from the sale of each coin.
That fact has been reported in Coin World.
I believe that those royalties, per coin, exceed the $1 face value.
The CNMI government does have the authority to
authorize commemorative medallions. They do not
have the authority to issue legal tender.
What is the legal status of a CNMI commemorative medallion
that says "One Dollar" on it ? I don't know - maybe it is
like a "good for $1 in trade" token. But I don't think anyone
will ever travel to CNMI to try and exchange one !
I think there was a clause that said the coins only carry their
face value for one year after issue, but that is a mute point now.
"mark" <prg...@aol.combustion> wrote in message news:20041013202953...@mb-m06.aol.com...
> >From: "D Carr" dca...@mindspring.com
>
> > They were then called "government authorized"
> >or something like that (which is technically correct).
>
> No, it's not. The government in question does have the authority to authorize
> what is damn near a counterfeit.
>
> --
> mark
J. A. M.
>
> >From: "D Carr" dca...@mindspring.com
>
> > They were then called "government authorized"
> >or something like that (which is technically correct).
>
> No, it's not. The government in question does have the authority to authorize
> what is damn near a counterfeit.
>
> --
> mark
It's a privately issued commemorative, nothing more.
JAM
D Carr
folly.
I do not like the way the coins are being marketed, but I agree with the above statement.
J. A. M.
I don't like the coins either.
JAM
Fred Shecter
They carried ballast and after the ballast was removed, they melted it and mixed in other
metal and made "coins". They were awarded along with some flags (I got the mini flag
mounted to a certificate) to a select few Rockwell employees (and probably some NASA and
other govt folks).
-Fred Shecter
--
"""Remove "zorch" from address (2 places) to reply.
"Scottishmoney" <scotti...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:10mr8jo...@corp.supernews.com...
> All I will say is this, your designs were often better than the ones
> selected by the US Mint, I just wish that I could have seen them in my
> pocket and used said coins in commerce. Because otherwise I will not see
> them, because whilst I know you had not any input in their pricing etc, I
> wouldn't buy them myself at the prices they are currently charging.
>
> I have a problem with anything claiming to have silver from the WTC, it is
> tasteless. 3000 people died there, that is hallowed ground. Grading
> companies soiled their image by even touching such stuff. How about a vial
> of oil from the USS Arizona? how about a piece of the space shuttle
> Columbia? how about a piece of Pan Am 103? how about some wreckage from
> Beslan, Russia?
>
> Dave
> --
> emails to (myuserid).at.lycos.com
>
> Don't vote for a Washington Fat Cat, vote for a Black Cat
> "D Carr" <dca...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:bXfbd.2138$6k2....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 9/10/04
>
>
Edwin Johnston
> "Phil DeMayo" <flip...@aol.compulsion> wrote in message news:20041013210623...@mb-m26.aol.com...
>
>
>>Their marketing is deliberately deceptive.
>>They refuse to use the word "plated" which everyone would understand.
>
>
> I agree.
>
>
>>Reportedly the owner of the NCM is a former pornographer. Apparently he brought
>>the "sleaze" with him to his new business. You can do what you like Daniel, but
>>Iwould never do work for an outfit like this, no matter how bad I needed the
>>money.
>
>
> I hadn't heard that until today (on the PCGS board). Do you know what kind of porn ?
> I heard that there was legal action and a fine was involved. But I don't know why.
> I think adults should be able to do what they want in privacy. But I certainly wouldn't
> ever want anything to do with anyone who had been involved in child pronography.
>
>
>
A former porn king finds a new calling in coins made with Ground Zero silver
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2004/10/03/2003205409
RLWinnetka
>Islands.
Sorry, not true. These are NOT legal tender anywhere, not in the Marshall
Islands (unless they just now granted legal tender status to foreign coins),
the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas Islands (CNMI, the authorizing
"country," which has no more authority to issue legal tender coins than Puerto
Rico does), not the U.S. either.
Bob Leonard
Bruce Remick
> > What venue will actually sell them at $49.95 after this "special offer"
ends?
>
than the issue price of $20.
>
> > The average non-collector would obviously presume that these are special
coins produced by the US Mint
>
print and they'd assume that the coins
> came from the US Government. This is probably the crux of the matter, as
fas as Spitzer is concerned.
>
> > I haven't seen an add with more fraudulent, deceptive BS since the
beginning of cable TV.
>
>
Ouch! You got me there.
I just wonder how successful NCM would have been if they advertised: a
silver-plated commemorative medal commissioned by the Commonwealth of
Northern Marianas Islands, struck by the NCM, and featuring a 9/11 World
Trade Center theme. And by the way, the silver plating comes from some
silver found in a vault at the site of the collapsed World Trade Center. The
NCM will continue producing these medals until they run out of this silver.
We offer these now at $19.95 and will offer them later at $49.95.
Probably not very.
Bruce
J. A. M.
>
> > What venue will actually sell them at $49.95 after this "special offer" ends?
>
>
>
> A percentage of the general population probably would not study the fine print and they'd assume that the coins
> came from the US Government. This is probably the crux of the matter, as fas as Spitzer is concerned.
>
>
>
> I you want to talk "slime ball" marketing, nothing is lower than those "Joe Camel" ads.
> Inticing kids to start smoking - now that's low. I'm not saying that the NCM ads are justified,
> but they are relatively harmless compared to some things.
A percentage of the general population probably would not study the fine print
they'd assume
More excuses for not paying attention.
The worst kind of marketing is the marketing of high fat, high sugar foods to children.
JAM
Phil DeMayo
>I hadn't heard that until today (on the PCGS board). Do you know what kind
>of porn ?
>I heard that there was legal action and a fine was involved.
In one of the many recent threads on the NCM someone posted a link to a news
article. If I remember correctly that article stated that the owner of the NCM
paid a $600,000 fine to avoid going to jail for a pronography rap.
++++++++++
Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge
When bidding online always sit on your helmet
Just say NO to counterfeits
Michael E. Marotta
> I don't buy or sell these kind of products
> nor do endorse any deceptive advertising,
> most advertising is deceptive is some way.
> However, I will not join a crusade to
> protect people from their own folly.
> JAM
Thanks for saying that.
Michael
J. A. M.
>
> Do you feel the same way about people who tear apart similarly misleading ebay
> auctions and notify ebay and/or the seller to take it down "or else" ?
>
> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:16:59 -0400, "J. A. M." <jim...@pgh.net> wrote:
>
> >Mark wrote:
> >>
> >> What I find amazing about people defending this is that if these coins were
> >> ebay only items, people would have torn the auction apart for being deceptive
> >> and not completely honest - even though all the aspects are in the print - as
> >> obscure as they may be.
> >>
> >
> >I'm not defending anything.
> >
> >What bothers me is that other see it as their duty to "protect" others from their own ignorance. This is folly.
> >
> >JAM
"similarly misleading"
I haven't seen any. However, I have seen many eBay auction that were down right frauds and lies.
JAM
Bruce Remick
"J. A. M." <jim...@pgh.net> wrote in message
news:416EC29B...@pgh.net...
> Mark wrote:
> >
> > What I find amazing about people defending this is that if these coins
were
> > ebay only items, people would have torn the auction apart for being
deceptive
> > and not completely honest - even though all the aspects are in the
print - as
> > obscure as they may be.
> >
> >
> > >John Stone wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Breaking news.
> > >>
> > >>
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--attacks-coin1013oct13,0,2460643.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire
> > >
> > >What a load of crap. This is just another attempt of the ignorant and
uninformed to have some kind of "big brother" protect them from their own
laziness.
> > >
> > >If you have paid attention to the adds for this "coin" you will have
seen and heard that what New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer has said is
false.
> > >
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer on
Wednesday obtained a court order to temporarily suspend the sale of
commemorative Sept. 11 coins heavily advertised as being minted from silver
recovered from ground zero.
> > >
> > >Spitzer said the sale of the silver dollars emblazoned with the World
Trade Center towers on one side and the planned Freedom Tower on the flip
side is a fraud and he's investigating the claim the silver came from the
ruins of the twin towers.
> > >
> > >"It is a shameless attempt to profit from a national tragedy," Spitzer
said. "This product has been promoted with claims that are false, misleading
or unsubstantiated." (Related: WTC medallion looks like money but isn't)
> > >
> > >This statement is not true.
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Spitzer said the National Collector's Mint says the coins, engraved
with "In God We Trust," are legally authorized silver dollars, when they
aren't.
> > >
Marshal Islands.
> > >
> > >He said the coin advertised as nearly pure silver is only silver
plated, produced by a Wyoming company called SoftSky.
> > >
> > >The coin is never stated to be of pure silver. The ads clearly state
that it is silver plated.
> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >The TV and print ads include one fashioned after a news story that
reads: "Today, history is being made. For the first time ever, a legally
authorized government issue silver dollar has been struck to commemorate the
World Trade Center and the new Freedom Tower being erected in its place ...
Most importantly, each coin has been created using .999 pure silver
recovered from ground zero!"
> > >
> > >The dollar pieces are priced at $39 each, but sold at $19.95 with a
limit of five per customer.
> > >
> > >A company spokesman didn't immediately respond to a request for
comment. On Sept. 10, the U.S. Mint issued a notice on its Web site that the
coin "is not a legally authorized government issued" product.
> > >
> > >The temporary halt on sales is pending a civil suit filed by Spitzer in
state Supreme Court. Spitzer seeks civil penalties, restitution to those who
bought the coins, greater consumer disclosure and full disclosure that the
coins aren't endorsed by the federal government.
> > >
> > >The ads never state that the coins are endorsed by the US federal
government.
> >
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> > >
> > >I recommend that all consumers use their time and energy to pay
attention and stop wasting energy and our tax money trying to find someone
to protect them.
> > >
> > >I don't buy or sell these kind of products nor do endorse any deceptive
advertising, most advertising is deceptive is some way. However, I will not
join a crusade to protect people from their own folly.
> > >
> > >JAM
>
>
> What bothers me is that other see it as their duty to "protect" others
from their own ignorance. This is folly.
>
> JAM
Not really. Many people call that "educating". Some people are really
into that, helping others overcome ignorance.
Bruce
J. A. M.
> > with "In God We Trust," are legally authorized silver dollars, when
> > they aren't.
> >
> > This statement is also not true. The coins are legal tender in the
> > Marshal Islands.
>
> commonwealth of the northern mariana islands ... only problem with this
> is that cmni (as an insular part of the united states of america) has
> no authority to issue coins.
>
> --
> # henry mensch / san francisco california
> # http://www.henare.tk/
The point is that nowhere does the seller state that the "coin" is legal tender in the US.
JAM
0
>I you want to talk "slime ball" marketing, nothing is lower than those "Joe
>Camel" ads.
>Inticing kids to start smoking - now that's low. I'm not saying that the
>NCM ads are justified,
>but they are relatively harmless compared to some things.
I remember a winston ad using Fred Flintstone and Barney to sell their wares.
That was a long time ago though - before it was not PC.
WG
North Carolina -->First in Gold Dollars.
Scottishmoney
Columbia on fleaBay last year -totally tasteless. I also have a small gold
piece that was carried on Columbia during the flight in 1981.
Dave
--
emails to (myuserid).at.lycos.com
Don't vote for a Washington Fat Cat, vote for a Black Cat
"Fred Shecter" <fred.e....@zorch.alum.zorch.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:I5Jnv...@news.boeing.com...
J. A. M.
implies
obviously presume
These are just excuses for not paying attention. You can not make the world idiot proof. There are to many idiots out there.
JAM
J. A. M.
>
> I find that very interesting that a Jewish person would have Nazi coins.
> I'm not Jewish, but I can see how a person might view the coins after the
> fact as symbols of how the Nazi regime failed and others prevailed.
>
> PS:
> I have a surplus WWII German Mauser rifle that was never used in the war.
> But after the war, many of these surplus rifles made their way to Israel for use by
> the Israeli army around 1949. The Israelis rechamered the rifles from their original
> 8mm Mauser ammunition to the .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO) round.
> What I find most ironc, is that these rifles (like mine) have small proof marks
> stamped into the steel. The proof marks are in the shape of the Nazi war eagle,
> with the inspector number below that. The ironic part is that, near the Nazi
> markings, is also a Star of David proof mark.
>
> "CaptainDave" <Capta...@DontEvenTry.net> wrote in message news:%%vbd.1$bf6....@news.uswest.net...
> > I agree. Being Jewish, I collect these coins. I find it liberating, after
> > all I'm still here and they're not(for the most part).
> > -Dave
> >
> > > > Michael
> > > > "Non-contradiction"
> > >
> > >
> > > I find the idea of you pitching nazi coins in the trash strange.
> > > Your coins, your right but what is your objection to an object
> > > that more than one nations peoples used as money to buy bread, potatoes
> > > and meats with at the market?
> > >
> > > An object issued by a government now almost 60 years dead. They also paid
> > soldiers
> > > too of course
> > > but then so has many many coins been used by invading nations for all of
> > man's
> > > history. Percentage wise, normal people used them more than the military.
> > >
> > > And all invasions and occupations in history were probably no more kind
> > in the
> > > doing,
> > > just not as well documented.
> > > .
> > > Surely the coins in and of themselves carry no innate evil?
> > > Seems to me those coins are a legitimate piece of History.
> > > Just curious as to how you drew this line.
> > >
> > > Dale
> > > I confess: I have a nice Roman Caracalla coin!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
I find it interesting that people display the "Stars and Bars" of the failed confederacy.
JAM
D Carr
Although I didn't know that a couple weeks ago.
"Barry" <w2...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:1tlsm09c9hqps5i13...@4ax.com...
> The gov't official of the Marianas has no more authority to grant
> legal tender for a coin than does the governor of New Jersey. It's
> part of the US, period.
> Barry
>
Bruce Remick
> The CNMI government did "authorize" the coins.
> CNMI receives royaltes from the sale of each coin.
> That fact has been reported in Coin World.
> I believe that those royalties, per coin, exceed the $1 face value.
This sounds like they merely allowed their official name to be used, if all
they get is royalties while NCM gets the lion's share of the profits. I'd
be surprised if this project was initiated by the CNMI.
>
> The CNMI government does have the authority to
> authorize commemorative medallions. They do not
> have the authority to issue legal tender.
Unfortunately, these "coins" weren't advertised as commemorative medallions.
You and I have the authority to authorize commemorative medallions. So does
the NCM. Why would such a medallion have to include the "One Dollar" and
"In God We Trust" wording, if it has no official monetary value in CNMI or
the US?
>
> What is the legal status of a CNMI commemorative medallion
> that says "One Dollar" on it ? I don't know - maybe it is
> like a "good for $1 in trade" token. But I don't think anyone
> will ever travel to CNMI to try and exchange one !
> I think there was a clause that said the coins only carry their
> face value for one year after issue, but that is a mute point now.
Obviously, you only have to defend your part in designing the medallion, and
few would dispute it's an attractive design. No defense is necessary. I
commend your willingness to join the discussion here, especially after the
hostile reaction among RCC readers over the way the piece is being hyped.
Maybe the CNMI now wishes it never lent its name to this.
Bruce
D Carr
"Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote in message news:Ctkbd.30800$cJ3.26142@fed1read06...
> I just wonder how successful NCM would have been if they advertised: a
> silver-plated commemorative medal commissioned by the Commonwealth of
> Northern Marianas Islands, struck by the NCM, and featuring a 9/11 World
> Trade Center theme. And by the way, the silver plating comes from some
> silver found in a vault at the site of the collapsed World Trade Center. The
> NCM will continue producing these medals until they run out of this silver.
> We offer these now at $19.95 and will offer them later at $49.95.
> Probably not very.
Well, they certainly wouldn't have the potential to sell as many with that type of ad.
But if they had used that ad, then maybe they wouldn't be banned from selling
them currently. So ultimately, maybe they would have sold more with the
tame verson of the ad.
note.boy
and every other coin or note issued by a Government that's ever started
a war.
If so chuck out all your USA and British coins as they have started
plenty, and try hard to think of a country that has never started a war,
if you can't you will have to throw ALL of your notes and coins away.
I shouldn't have posted this as the thread should have died when the
Nazi word was mentioned. :-) Billy
"Michael E. Marotta" wrote:
>
> "D Carr" <dca...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Scottishmoney" <scotti...@charter.net> wrote:
> > > This story is also picked up on Yahoo and CNN now. Unfortunately I looked
> > > at the National Collectors Mint website and noticed that Daniel Carr is
> > > designing state quarters for Puerto Rico and DC for them.
>
> > As I've said before, National Collectors Mint contracts me to design coins.
> > I'm am happy to get the work since I get paid to do what I like to do.
> > They tell me what they want on the coin and I design it.
>
> You don't need to apologize to me. I have worked on projects at
> General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. About a year of my effort is
> invested in the GM Vortec V-8, a fine engine, powerful, efficient, and
> reliable... though not what runs my 1990 Toyota Camry. In the classic
> non-fiction romance MERCHANTS MAKE HISTORY by Ernst Samhaber, the
> author says that a good merchant does not argue religion with their
> client. The original context was the Europeans coming out of the Dark
> Ages to trade with the East. I accept the advice in a wider context.
> Does it matter if your client is a Republican or a Democrat? Does it
> matter if they hang Picasso paintings or Picasso in effigy? All that
> counts is that the check clears.
>
> That said, I also believe that everyone draws the line somewhere.
> When I buy pounds of world coins to give out at Halloween, sometimes I
> find old nazi stuff and I pitch it in the garbage where it belongs.
> On the other hand, I have this Soviet coin...
>
> Michael
> "Non-contradiction"
joecoin
news:416EDB9D...@naespamntlworld.com:
> I presume you throw away notes of The Confederate States Of America
> also and every other coin or note issued by a Government that's ever
> started a war.
>
> If so chuck out all your USA and British coins as they have started
> plenty, and try hard to think of a country that has never started a
> war, if you can't you will have to throw ALL of your notes and coins
> away.
>
> I shouldn't have posted this as the thread should have died when the
> Nazi word was mentioned. :-) Billy
>
>
> "Michael E. Marotta" wrote:
>
>> ...
>> That said, I also believe that everyone draws the line somewhere.
>> When I buy pounds of world coins to give out at Halloween, sometimes
>> I find old nazi stuff and I pitch it in the garbage where it belongs.
>> On the other hand, I have this Soviet coin...
>>
>> Michael
>> "Non-contradiction"
>
I don't think it's about war as much as it is about ideology. That's why
I collect Newfoundland 20 cent pieces.
And I admit to having had a Susan B Anthony coin at one time. The only US
coin with two birds on it.
--
Joecoin
Copper is as copper does.
Tom DeLorey
> John Stone wrote:
> >
> > Breaking news.
> >
> > http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--attacks-coin1013oct13,0,2460643.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire
>
> What a load of crap. This is just another attempt of the ignorant and uninformed to have some kind of "big brother" protect them from their own laziness.
>
> If you have paid attention to the adds for this "coin" you will have seen and heard that what New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer has said is false.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer on Wednesday obtained a court order to temporarily suspend the sale of commemorative Sept. 11 coins heavily advertised as being minted from silver recovered from ground zero.
>
> Spitzer said the sale of the silver dollars emblazoned with the World Trade Center towers on one side and the planned Freedom Tower on the flip side is a fraud and he's investigating the claim the silver came from the ruins of the twin towers.
>
> "It is a shameless attempt to profit from a national tragedy," Spitzer said. "This product has been promoted with claims that are false, misleading or unsubstantiated." (Related: WTC medallion looks like money but isn't)
>
> This statement is not true.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> This statement is also not true. The coins are legal tender in the Marshal Islands.
>
> He said the coin advertised as nearly pure silver is only silver plated, produced by a Wyoming company called SoftSky.
>
> The coin is never stated to be of pure silver. The ads clearly state that it is silver plated.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The TV and print ads include one fashioned after a news story that reads: "Today, history is being made. For the first time ever, a legally authorized government issue silver dollar has been struck to commemorate the World Trade Center and the new Freedom Tower being erected in its place ... Most importantly, each coin has been created using .999 pure silver recovered from ground zero!"
>
> The dollar pieces are priced at $39 each, but sold at $19.95 with a limit of five per customer.
>
> A company spokesman didn't immediately respond to a request for comment. On Sept. 10, the U.S. Mint issued a notice on its Web site that the coin "is not a legally authorized government issued" product.
>
> The temporary halt on sales is pending a civil suit filed by Spitzer in state Supreme Court. Spitzer seeks civil penalties, restitution to those who bought the coins, greater consumer disclosure and full disclosure that the coins aren't endorsed by the federal government.
>
> The ads never state that the coins are endorsed by the US federal government.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I recommend that all consumers use their time and energy to pay attention and stop wasting energy and our tax money trying to find someone to protect them.
>
> I don't buy or sell these kind of products nor do endorse any deceptive advertising, most advertising is deceptive is some way. However, I will not join a crusade to protect people from their own folly.
>
> JAM
Thank you for Sharing!
:-)
TD
Dale Hallmark
"J. A. M." <jim...@pgh.net> wrote in message news:416EEAA7...@pgh.net...
I do too and I am from the South and know people that do. A few times when I tried
to discuss the
confederacy with a friend or two that did that, they didn't know anything much about
it.
Dale
D Carr
"joecoin" <joerem...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Xns9582D6850F1D4jo...@63.223.5.95...
TomDeLorey
.
>Subject: Re: Court order stops sale of WTC "freedom tower" coins
>From: "D Carr" dca...@mindspring.com
>Date: 10/14/2004 11:02 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <oZHbd.3567$6k2...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
TomDeLorey
-
Vote. If you don't like the way things are going, vote the bums out. If you are
happy, re-elect. Just don't not vote and then complain about how things are.
J. A. M.
>
> > > >
> > > > What bothers me is that other see it as their duty to "protect" others
> > > from their own ignorance. This is folly.
> > > >
> > > > JAM
> > >
> > > Not really. Many people call that "educating". Some people are really
> > > into that, helping others overcome ignorance.
> > >
> > > Bruce
> >
> >
> > JAM
>
> Where'd you read that gem? Or does it simply sound good to you?
>
> Bruce
> 'sorry, world. lazy ignorance apparently is permanent'
It's all mine.
JAM
LoneHaranguer
<snip>
>From: "J. A. M." jim...@pgh.net
>Newsgroups: rec.collecting.coins
<snip>
>These are just excuses for not paying attention. You can not make the world
>idiot proof. There are to many idiots out there.
>
>JAM
>
>
You mean like the people who go out of their way to defend scumballs???
I assume that you are being paid $200 per hour to defend them? Or are you doing
this pro bono?
WinWinscenario
>>
>> > What bothers me is that other see it as their duty to "protect" others
>from their own ignorance. This is
>> folly.
>>
>above statement.
>
>I don't like the coins either.
>
>JAM
LOL
JAM is going to find a way to disagree with you, no matter how hard you try to
coopt his positions.
Regards,
Tom
MWelbornjr
commemorative coinage which these are.
MWelbornjr
Sunshine Mint strikes a nice piece.
>>From: "D Carr" dca...@mindspring.com
>
>> They were then called "government authorized"
>>or something like that (which is technically correct).
>
>No, it's not. The government in
J. A. M.
I'm trying to make the point that you have to protect yourself and stop trying to get someone to do the hard work for you. Paying attention to the details and the fine print is hard work. Many people
are to lazy to do the hard work and they try to find someone to do it for them.
I have no connection with the producer of this item nor do I buy or sell these kind of commemoratives.
JAM
J. A. M.
Um, I think I was agreeing with him.
If we all agreed about everything this would be a boring place to spend some time.
JAM
Sanford
I guess this outfit has ignored the courts as I saw it advertised, on
Ch 7 today.
Sanford
D Carr
They went about getting it minted.
"MWelbornjr" <mwelb...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20041016121135...@mb-m07.aol.com...
D Carr
PS: I designed the piece - Tom assumed that you were disagreeing with me by not liking the coin.
I'm not all that crazy about the coin itself, but at least the coin's design is better than the coin's
marketing.
"J. A. M." <jim...@pgh.net> wrote in message news:41715A65...@pgh.net...
joecoin
Thanks for correcting me.
BTW, the 2 birds on the SBA are an eagle and an old crow.
Bruce Hickmott
to have written:
*splorf*
Bruce
Jerry Dennis
Jerry
Melt them puppies!
"JoeCoin" clarifies: