Reverse design of 2010 Sac
Michael G. Koerner
2010 Sac.
It is at:
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/nativeamerican/?action=2010NADesign
I actually kind of like this one.
--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________
Bruce Remick
"Michael G. Koerner" <mgk...@dataex.com> wrote in message
news:da6dnf03Xd5J-oHW...@ntd.net...
> In case anyone didn't yet notice, the USMint has unveiled the design for
> the 2010 Sac.
>
> It is at:
> http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/nativeamerican/?action=2010NADesign
>
> I actually kind of like this one.
Still looks like more cut 'n' paste clipart on a flat background to me.
I'd like to see some traditional medalists tackle the Sac and maybe come up
with some dimensional features on a textured background. The Sac doesn't
circulate anymore anyway, so why not use it as a design platform for some
serious artists.
Jass
> "Michael G. Koerner" <mgk...@dataex.com> wrote in messagenews:da6dnf03Xd5J-oHW...@ntd.net...
The sac does indeed circulate. Ive gotten new ones as change from
machines many times (Boston MBTA fare machines)
Most recently, I got 10 coins as change. 1 new sac, 2 old sacs, 1
susan, and the rest presidents.
(The machines give out up to $19 in change)
Bruce Remick
"Jass" <jamesi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c144e6cc-ed8a-490a...@h2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
_________________
I guess you're luckier(?) than I am. I've never received one in change ever
since they came out. That indicates to me that they don't circulate, and
are being used mainly as "tokens" in vending machines, like you experienced.
When was the last time you actually got one in change at a store? Some of
our local banks do keep a few mixed dollar coins in a change tray on the
counter for those who might ask for one. A few banks have been getting
rolls of the new president dollars, but no Sac dollars.
shreadvector
For the last 2 or 3 months, my 2 boxes per week of dollar coins have
been almost always 2 boxes of mint rolled 2009 NA$ in bank boxes (5 x
8 rolls). The few boxes that were not NA$ were either a mix of mint
rolls of presidents or a mix of mint rolls of presidents and NA$. In
past years, I would once in a while get a bank box with mint rolls of
presidents, usually because the big regional cash vault had opened
mint boxes of Prexibux (the 4 x 10 boxes with holes punched in the top
to view the rolls) and shipped some of them to bank branches that
placed orders for less than $1000. When they had leftovers, the simply
boxed them up and shipped them to whoever ordered a full box.
I haven't gotten any 'commingled' dollar coin rolls in a few months.
I'm sure that will change at some unknown point in time.
As speaking of mntages, they will need to make a few 10s of millions
more of the 2009 NA$ to keep the percentage within the legally
mandated ratio of NA$ to Prexibux. Thank you Byron Dorgan.
I was spending some rolls of NA$ coins yesterday in a 'retirement
community' at a big grocery store and the Twenty-something cashier
(male) thought they were the coolest thing he had seen in a long time.
He bought extra rolls for the register to use as change.
Petronius
"shreadvector" <fred.e....@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:79729650-f4f0-4ebc...@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shector, you are completely full of beans!
Petronius
news:79729650-f4f0-4ebc...@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Funny, previously you went on at length about how you aren't "spending" your
dollar coins, claiming that you merely "go through" them and castigating me
about my alleged reading comprehension deficiencies.
Guess you can't keep your story straight, eh Freddy?
Oh what a tangled web we weave...
shreadvector
> "shreadvector" <fred.e.shec...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
Feel free to kill file me (as you claimed last time, but that was a
lie) so that you don't have to tax your limited reading comprehension
skills. As we have proven repeatedly in the past week or so, you
cannot comprehend that when I "go through" 2000 per week, it does not
mean that I purchase $2000 worth of goods and services. When you hand
someone a $100 bill for a $2.37 purchase, did you buy $100 worth of
stuff? No, you bought $2.37 and you got change.
Please respond again to illustrate just how completely stupid you are.
I enjoy helping you do so. I encourage others to present you with
additional reading and math tests to help you prove to the world (and
by "world" I mean the 5 people still using USENET) your I.Q.
Just for fun, here is another repeat of what was said to you last
time:
"Once again you prove that you cannot read (or comprehend what you
read).
When I pay for an tranaction and the total is $1.09 and I hand them a
$25 roll (that they open and count), and they hand me a twenty dollar
bill, 3 rag dollars and 91 cents change, how much money have I
"spent"? I "spent" $1.09 and I "used" 25 dollar coins.
And when the cashier or people at work exhange their $20s, $100s or
checks for rolls of dollar coins, those are gone as well.
That is how I "go through", not "spend" 2000 dollar coins a week for
years and years.
You obviously simply want to argue or fight and that is why you accuse
me of lying and you falsely claim that I "spend" 2000 dollar coins a
week.
You are making yourself look stupid. I have no doubt that you will
continue."
Petronius
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shector, it is you who looks like an idiot and a liar.
Apparently your reading comprehension skill is as bad as you claim mine is.
In your last post you specifically said "I was spending some rolls of NA$
coins", not "going through" but "spending".
I do not believe that merchants take your rolls of dollar coins, open them and
count them and hand you back folding money as you claim.
It simply is not credible.
Nor is it credible that you walk around with multiple rolls of dollars ($2000
worth according to you).
You claim to either "spend" or "pass through" (depending on your lie du jour)
over $100,000/year.
Now very few people I know (none actually) are making cash transactions of that
magnitude.
Again, it simply is not credible.
You've been caught in a lie, you pathetically bluster and lie some more in your
sad attempt to weasel out of the hole you dug for yourself but your own words
belie your assertions.
shreadvector
Wow, once again, you prove you are an idiot.
let us explore this.
When I say that I "spend" rolls dollar coins, you project that to mean
that I purchase the full $25 of product or services. You then used
that idiotic arguement to claim that I am a liar and that I claimed to
spend 2000 dollar coins a week on products and services. I repeatedly
explain (to my amusement, thank you!!) that when someone "spends" a
$100 bill at a store for a $2.37 transaction, they have not spent the
entire $100 - they get change back.
I never said that I walk around with $2000 in dollar coin rolls when I
go shopping. I walk out of the bank with them, in two boxes. When I go
shopping, the most I will carry into a store (Costco) is 10 to 12
rolls (in a bag): some to spend and the others for the cashier who
likes to buy them from me and use them as change. most of the time I
have about 2 rolls and maybe a few loose dollar coins in my pocket.
You really should call your I.T. experts to fix your non-functioning
killfile.
Apparently you are the person who inspired Ron White. Thank you!
And for giggles, many months ago there were weekly posts about the mix
of dollar coins in the two boxes per week that I get from the bank.
The posts would detail the ratio of Susan B Anthony dollar coins to
Golden Dollar coins in the commingled circulated dollar coins that I
was getting for years. I detailed how the ratio of SBAs was steadily
dropping over time. I guess I made up all those posts and all those
numbers.
Please post again and gloriously expose your boundless stupidity. At
least 4 USENET readers await your next steming load. You make us proud!
shreadvector
Petronius
let us explore this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your stultifying obtuseness is really quite remarkable.
You have repeatedly claimed that you obtain $2000/week in dollar coins and
somehow dispose of them (your explanations vary and become more comical with
each post).
That means you pass $104,000.00 in coins a year.
That is not credible.
Now you claim to carry 10 or 12 rolls (in a bag, to be sure) when you go
shopping.
That's about 2.5 Kg of coins, not to mention the 2 rolls you claim your
remarkably sturdy pockets hold!
Like Hitler, you apparently believe if you tell a lie often enough and long
enough, the public will accept it as the truth.
You are a blowhard and a fraud, Shector and all 4 readers of this group know it!
shreadvector
> Your stultifying obtuseness is really quite remarkable.
> You have repeatedly claimed that you obtain $2000/week in dollar coins and
> somehow dispose of them (your explanations vary and become more comical with
> each post).
> That means you pass $104,000.00 in coins a year.
> That is not credible.
> Now you claim to carry 10 or 12 rolls (in a bag, to be sure) when you go
> shopping.
> That's about 2.5 Kg of coins, not to mention the 2 rolls you claim your
> remarkably sturdy pockets hold!
> Like Hitler, you apparently believe if you tell a lie often enough and long
> enough, the public will accept it as the truth.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ignoring Godwin's Law for the moment, how is the trouble ticket you
opened with I.T. to fix your non-functioning killfile?
Or was that just another of your lies. After all, you are the one
telling the lies over and over again. Or maybe you arenot really
lying, maybe you are just as dumb as a rock. Which brings us back to
Ron White again.
Buwahahaha.
Petronius
Buwahahaha.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Even a lying dimwit like you Shector must be aware that a kill-file is not a one
way function.
One wonders how you find the time to spend $100,400.00 a year in dollar coins
given the inordinate amount of time you spend blowing off your bazoo on Usenet.
Other than calling me names and making inane comments about my kill-file, you've
done nothing to refute my assertion that you are a lying blowhard.
Fact is, everything you do reinforces that assertion, to the point of making it
undeniable fact.
shreadvector
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are astoundingly stupid an a liar. You post that you are puttting
me in your killfile and even use the <PLONK> term, yet you are still
seeeing and responding to my messages. Proving that you are a liar.
When you respond to my next post, you will re-inforce that you are a
complete liar. Please do so and proclaim to the world (OK, to the 3
remaining USENET readers - it was 4 but enough time has gone by that
one of them has passed on by now) what a liar you are.
And be sure to accuse me of "spending" again and use the term as you
define it (as buying goods and services in that amount and ignoring
the reality of exchanges with cashiers and coworkers and getting
change back from a $20 roll).
Respond.
Respond now. You cannot resist. I command you! You are my puppet!
Dance!
shreadvector
Good related article on the WSJ site:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126014168569179245.html?mod=yhoofront
Petronius
>And be sure to accuse me of "spending" again and use the term as you define it
>(as buying goods and services in that amount and ignoring
the reality of exchanges with cashiers and coworkers and getting change back
from a $20 roll).
I didn't "accuse" you of spending, those were YOUR WORDS in your noontime post
of today ("I was spending some rolls of NA$ coins yesterday in a 'retirement
community' at>a big grocery store ..."), you incredible limpet.
You still have done nothing to refute my assertion that your claim of spending
104,000 dollar coins a year is simply not credible.
You continue to lie and avoid the issue of your lack of credibility.
Then you resort to childish devices like "if you reply, you're a big stinky
poopyhead" or some such nonsense in a feebleminded attempt to take the heat off
you.
You're pathetic.
You'll be sure to reply with more snide remarks, childish catcalls, and outright
lies.
We're waiting, Shector...
shreadvector
> "shreadvector" <fred.e.shec...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
Testing your killfile lie one more time. Dance.
All your other lies were already refuted over and over again. please
repeat them again. It makes the dance I have you performing look so
much more delightful!
Dance for me, my pathetic puppet!
Petronius
--------------------------------------------------------------------
You seem to be the one dancing for me Shector.
You've been disgraced as a liar, fraud and blowhard in front of the numismatic
world.
My job is complete.
Now dance...
shreadvector
>
> - Show quoted text -
Dear trained dancing monkey:
I know your diaper is full, but that makes your dance so much more
warm and cozy for you, but you have not told us about your research on
my alleged lies about posting my coin ratio findings in the boxes of
dollar coins I get every week over the last few years.
Please take some time from your dancing and sit down at your computer
and search for those old posts. That diaper will get squishy, but you
like that.
And once your done, please dance the night away, my trained monkey. Or
is that trained chimp?
Bruce Remick
_________________
Fred, this discussion seems to involve an interpretation of semantics
more than anything else. If you leave home with rolls of dollar coins and
you *use* a solid roll to buy something, you've *spent* it, regardless of
the cost of the item you bought or whatever change you get. (I believe you
did mention that you always hand over complete rolls, not just individual
coins taken from a roll) If you left with a wallet full of hundred dollar
bills and handed one to a store clerk, you've *spent* it. If you reach into
your pocket and pull out a half dollar to pay for a candy bar, you *spent*
the half dollar. This just seems to be confusion over the word "spend".
Otherwise, obviously most people aren't anywhere near as agressive as
you claim to be in distributing tens of thousands of dollar coins among
various local merchants. Maybe most welcome it, maybe they don't. At least
you are getting a human nature lesson. I suspect though that those dollar
coins don't stay in "circulation" very long.
Petronius
news:yxeTm.16531$_b5...@newsfe22.iad...
> Fred, this discussion seems to involve an interpretation of semantics more
> than anything else. If you leave home with rolls of dollar coins and you
> *use* a solid roll to buy something, you've *spent* it, regardless of the cost
> of the item you bought or whatever change you get.
Shecter is well aware of that, just today in one of his posts he used the word
"spending" ("I was spending some rolls of NA$ coins yesterday in a 'retirement
community' at a big grocery store ..."), in reference to his alleged dispersal
of dollar coins.
He has done nothing to refute my claim that his assertion of spending over
100,000 dollar coins per year is a lot of hooey!
He seems to believe that because he's been pumping out this bilge water for
years (according to him), that we should all believe him.
I don't and that just gets under his skin.
shreadvector
Dear trained dancing monkey:
Petronius
Dear trained dancing monkey:
---------------------------------
shreadvector
> "shreadvector" <fred.e.shec...@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are astoundingly stupid an a liar. You post that you are puttting
me in your killfile and even use the <PLONK> term, yet you are still
seeeing and responding to my messages. Proving that you are a liar.
When you respond to my next post, you will re-inforce that you are a
complete liar. Please do so and proclaim to the world (OK, to the 3
remaining USENET readers - it was 4 but enough time has gone by that
one of them has passed on by now) what a liar you are.
And be sure to accuse me of "spending" again and use the term as you
define it (as buying goods and services in that amount and ignoring
the reality of exchanges with cashiers and coworkers and getting
change back from a $25 roll).
Respond.
Respond now. You cannot resist. I command you! You are my puppet!
Dance!
I know your diaper is full, but that makes your dance so much more
warm and cozy for you, but you have not told us about your research
on
my alleged lies about posting my coin ratio findings in the boxes of
dollar coins I get every week over the last few years.
Please take some time from your dancing and sit down at your computer
and search for those old posts. That diaper will get squishy, but you
like that.
And once your done, please dance the night away, my trained monkey.
Or
is that trained chimp?
I command you to respond. Please keep respondng every hour even if I
an offline. it will help you prove your point - you know....the point
about how you cannot read and how you ignore facts presented to you
with proof. Dance for my amusement. Dance!
George D
I see nothing inconsistent with Fred's posts over the years.
George
--
Government is a voracious monster that must have your labor to control
YOU! Your money is your liberty. The taxes you pay gently enslave you,
and eventually destroy any human liberty you have. Fear government, pray
for the country.
Petronius
Respond.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm afraid Shecter is having or has had a stroke.
His constant repetition of nonsense phrases, his obsession with dancing monkeys
and diapers full of feces convinces me he has suffered some sort of brain
damage,
Of course, I suspected brain damage when he claimed to spend 100,000 dollar coin
a year.
Poor Freddie, sitting by his computer, drooling on the keyboard and rubbing his
excrement on the walls.
shreadvector
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you for responding to my command to respond and to continue
dancing for me.
Please continue to respond and dance. By my command.
Petronius
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Stroke, definitely a stroke.
Poor excrement covered, spittle drooling Fred.
Anyway, shouldn't you be out spending your dollar coins?
That $100K is going to spend itself, now is it?
Now dance... by my command...
Petronius
"George D" <geo...@arizona.com> wrote in message
news:_afTm.49623$ky1....@newsfe14.iad...
> Petronius wrote:
>> "shreadvector" <fred.e....@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
>> news:79729650-f4f0-4ebc...@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>> I was spending some rolls of NA$ coins yesterday in a 'retirement community'
>>> at a big grocery store ...
>>
>> Funny, previously you went on at length about how you aren't "spending" your
>> dollar coins, claiming that you merely "go through" them and castigating me
>> about my alleged reading comprehension deficiencies.
>> Guess you can't keep your story straight, eh Freddy?
>> Oh what a tangled web we weave...
>
> I see nothing inconsistent with Fred's posts over the years.
>
> George
Merely because Shecter has been repeating the same lie for a long time doesn't
make it any more true.
Ask yourself - is it feasible to spend 100,000 dollar coins in a year.
Logic dictates Shecter is lying.
This all started when someone came in here with a question about the new dollar
coin.
Shecter responded, the guy thanked him and said he got a roll.
To which Shecter sneered "A roll? Why I get 40 a week!", thereby proving himself
to be a complete asshole.
Michael G. Koerner
from the USMint, not to start a flamewar, OK?
Bruce Remick
"Petronius" <x...@xxx.xxx> wrote in message
news:hfjt9c$52l$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
It is possible, and maybe likely, that Fred could "spend" $100,000 worth of
intact dollar rolls on say $5,000 worth of merchandise over a year. He
would have tendered them as payment so in effect he spent them. I suppose
it also could be said that one "disperses" whatever coins or bills he offers
when he spends them. It's just the use of words here, IMO. I would be
curious as to the percentage of clerks or cashiers that are receptive to
that unexpected kind of payment.
Paul Anderson
Fred has described many times over the years how he spends rolls of
dollar coins and gets change (not unlike someone who spends a $20 bill
and receives change) and sells rolls to others where he works.
His repetition of these assertions has not changed and I have no reason
not to believe him.
Yes, those of us who spend lots of dollar coins are outside the
mainstream, but we have fun doing it and we are saving taxpayers money
by doing so.
It's fun to spend interesting money, and I personally have made a number
of persons' days over the years by spending shiny dollars or $2 bills.
Please agree to disagree, but can we stop talking about diapers now?
Paul
Petronius
"Paul Anderson" <paulra...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:paulranderson-767...@news.charter.net...
Sorry but Shecter's claim of passing 104,000 dollar coins a year is simply
ludicrous on the face of it.
That's around 285 coins PER DAY!
I enjoy a good coin tall tale as much as the next fellow but don't piss on my
shoe and tell me it's raining.
The fact that Shecter's been lying for years and hasn't been called on it
doesn't make his lies the truth.
Bruce Remick
"Paul Anderson" <paulra...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:paulranderson-767...@news.charter.net...
I agree with everything you said except maybe that part about you guys
saving the taxpayers money by spending dollar coins.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
As we said earlier, peoples' sphincters must tighten every time you
walk back into the few retail places you frequent that haven't yet
banned you.
There aren't enough hours in the day to explain what these coins are
to all the places you claim to be spending them.
oly
Petronius
news:a892ff9d-fae5-49b4...@g26g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>As we said earlier, peoples' sphincters must tighten every time you walk back
>into the few retail places you frequent that haven't yet banned you.
Not to mention the comments that must be generated from the other folks waiting
in line while the remarkably (nay miraculously) patient cashiers carefully open
and count each of Fred's dollar rolls and eagerly beg him for more.
Jass
> "Jass" <jamesincl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c144e6cc-ed8a-490a...@h2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 6, 9:44 pm, "Bruce Remick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Michael G. Koerner" <mgk...@dataex.com> wrote in
> > messagenews:da6dnf03Xd5J-oHW...@ntd.net...
>
> > > In case anyone didn't yet notice, the USMint has unveiled the design for
> > > the 2010 Sac.
>
> > > It is at:
> > >http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/nativeamerican/?action=2010NADesign
>
> > > I actually kind of like this one.
>
> > I'd like to see some traditional medalists tackle the Sac and maybe come
> > up
> > with some dimensional features on a textured background. The Sac doesn't
> > circulate anymore anyway, so why not use it as a design platform for some
> > serious artists.
>
> The sac does indeed circulate. Ive gotten new ones as change from
> machines many times (Boston MBTA fare machines)
>
> Most recently, I got 10 coins as change. 1 new sac, 2 old sacs, 1
> susan, and the rest presidents.
>
> (The machines give out up to $19 in change)
> _________________
>
> I guess you're luckier(?) than I am. I've never received one in change ever
> since they came out. That indicates to me that they don't circulate, and
> are being used mainly as "tokens" in vending machines, like you experienced.
> When was the last time you actually got one in change at a store? Some of
> our local banks do keep a few mixed dollar coins in a change tray on the
> counter for those who might ask for one. A few banks have been getting
> rolls of the new president dollars, but no Sac dollars.
Wow, this thread got hijacked by children.
Anyway, Ive never received a coin from a human transaction, but the
fact that the mass transit vending machines give them out means all
merchants are used to receiving them. Before the machines were
deployed in 2006, many merchants would do a double take when receiving
a dollar coin as payment. Today they don't react, which makes me think
they see them every day. Of course, that has done nothing to change
the behavior of returning them as change to the next customer. Still,
some circulation is better than none. And based on the brown 2001 saks
I see, they have done a decent amount of circulating.
Im sure this is the same in other cities that have popular mass
transit systems with automated machines that give change.
Bruce Remick
"Jass" <jamesi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bb695c8c-9962-40d2...@g26g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
_____________________
So like I said, they're essentially used mostly as "tokens" in machines,
seldom seen in merchants' register drawers. By now, most cashiers should
have seen these dollar coins and won't do the double take any more. But
for a little golden coin that has been available for 30 years now, that
doesn't speak much for its popular acceptance along with the penny, nickel,
dime, and quarter. Yet it still is being cranked out each year by the
millions. That said, a dollar coin might evoke less surprise from many
cashiers than a half dollar.
I was thinking how rare it would be to find a modern dollar coin graded VG-F
from actual wear. But then I can't remember the last time I saw ANY of our
circulating coins in less than Fine condition, including 50 years of
Memorial reverse cents. Those pesky coin jars and credit cards at work, I
guess.
Mr. Jaggers
The Sac dollar circulates extensively in Ecuador. No doubt you could find a
VG-F example there by now. But the golden dollar has been around only since
2000, not 30 years. The SBA was not "golden."
I don't recall seeing the modern stuff very worn, either, but maybe that's
because there are so many of them that the wear gets spread around.
James the Abrasive
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
news:hfn3k...@enews1.newsguy.com...
I did read that Ecuador apparently loves 'em, so much so that they are
actually being counterfeited, according to a recent Coin World article. I
imagine there would indeed be some worn Sac's there. And yes, I was
thinking about our smaller post-Ike dollar coins, forgetting that the SBA
wasn't "golden". Shows even more how seldom I encounter one outside of a
mint or proof set. Thirty years of no wear still goes, though.
>
> I don't recall seeing the modern stuff very worn, either, but maybe that's
> because there are so many of them that the wear gets spread around.
Hmmm. Okay. Like me, I'm sure you recall in your youth when maybe a third
of the coins we ran across were apt to be in less than fine condition due to
constant handling. That even included the silver dollars you could get at
the bank, although I can't remember ever seeing people actually spend them.
Quite a few men did carry them as pocket pieces. Maybe those were the ones
that ended up as the G-VG ones at the bank.
Mr. Jaggers
The constant handling was no doubt a function of, as you suggested earlier,
lack of credit and debit cards and PayPal. I do remember some guys in
college, though, who had carboys and Nebuchadnezzars that they were filling
up with Lincolns, and I don't know how much the use of coin jars has
proliferated since nineteen mumbly-four.
James, now in his Late Youth
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
Lost me with "carboys" and "Neb...." I always suspected I grew up pretty
much removed from the latest fads and lingo, and maybe that shows it. I do
know that I personally did my part wearing quite a few pennies and nickels
down to VG-F as a kid. I seldom carried a dollar bill. Most everything we
wanted and could afford could be bought with coins. I saved up my pennies
to spend on bubble gum cards or to bring to the local amusement park to use
in those penny machines that dispensed movie and western star arcade cards.
Mr. Jaggers
Mercy, Bruce, I figured that if anybody knew what those terms meant, you'd
be the one! A carboy is a beer fermentation bottle of 5-gallon or more size
that has a neck small enough to accept a cork or fermentation lock (can be
used in winemaking as well) and a Nebuchadnezzar is a wine bottle that will
hold, IIRC, close to four gallons. Jeroboams and Rehoboams are somewhat
smaller, but I forget which is the larger. OK, I confess, I went to a rough
school.
James [hic] the Whatever...
Bruce Remick
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
Interesting. I apparently was sheltered from those terms, except maybe
jeroboam in an early novel. But then most of the beer containers I come in
contact with are 12oz bottles and cans of various sizes. I never made my
own beer; it always seemed cheaper and more satisfying to buy a case made by
the pros. (I remember my folks did make their own root beer which would
open your eyes back in the day. I could never understand why they would
only let me have a "taste", never my own full bottle.) Sadly, I never
developed a taste for wine. Try as I might though, I just can't picture a
group of kids in a rough school passing around a Nebuwhatever so the empty
could be used to store pennies. Quart pickle jars used to work well for
our family.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Could it be that copper nickel is more durable than silver for coinage
use and that is why older coins looked more used?
Of course, coins are almost totally irrelevant today for any purchase
(spent almost $9 last night on a quality loaf of bread, 10 ounces of
deli turkey and two cold 20 oz diet cokes - and I did not use coins).
Coins are recieved in the backside of purchases, not often used for
the front side.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
I always make it a point to use coins on the front side - if I have them, I
like to get rid of them so they don't end up in the wash, like about $2 in
oddments did this morning.
James the Money Launderer
Bruce Remick
_________________________
Worn pennies and nickels were common when found in change 50-60 years
ago. Today, you'd have to do a lot of searching before finding a VG-F
Lincoln or Jefferson-- for the exact reasons you mention. They're not
usually used for purchases, except maybe by the older lady in front of me in
the checkout line. Although I usually don't worry about receiving coins in
the backside, I never turn my back on the cashier at the register.
_________________________
Petronius
> I always make it a point to use coins on the front side - if I have them, I
> like to get rid of them so they don't end up in the wash, like about $2 in
> oddments did this morning.
At the end of the day my coins go into my piggy bank from whence they eventually
wind up in a Coinstar machine.
If I have change, I'll try to use it in a purchase but I rarely have enough.
As pointed out before, the denominations of today's coins have not kept up with
inflation.
Back in the 50s, a candy bar cost a nickel, now one (albeit smaller) costs 50
cents.
The cent, nickel and possibly dime could easily be eliminated from the ranks of
current coinage without an adverse effect on the economy.
Ease the public into the process slowly, by first eliminating the now-useless
cent (keep making them for collectors though), after a few years do the same for
the nickel and then the dime. By that time no one will miss them, esp. if we
experience the runaway inflation the current administration's fiscal policies
will engender.
Start making more half dollars (which were in wide use 50 years ago, odd
considering they were actually worth something then).
Eliminate the dollar bill (like Canada did) to force the use of the dollar
coins.
Start making $2 coins and maybe even $5 ones
Mr. Jaggers
Sacrilege! Don't you know that our currency system originated in the Garden
of Eden? If the cent was good enough for Adam, it's good enough for me.
James the Fundie
Petronius
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
Then let's bring back the half cent - perfect for paying the EXACT sales tax!
Mr. Jaggers
You'd need the mill for that.
James the Decimalator
Petronius
"Mr. Jaggers" <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote in message
The mil, eh - that has never been part of out pantheon of coins.
You should be called James the Apostate!
Peter Irwin
>
> Sacrilege! Don't you know that our currency system originated in the Garden
> of Eden? If the cent was good enough for Adam, it's good enough for me.
>
> James the Fundie
>
from bronze, 3, 6, 12, 24, 30 and 60 dollar coins from silver, and 120,
240, 480 and 1200 dollar coins from gold. The smallest note should be
1200 dollars - then you would have a proper monetary system. You could
call the $12 coin something beginning with S and the $240 gold coin
something beginning with L. The silver coins should have 66 $12 coins
weighing twelve troy ounces of .925 silver, and the gold coins should
be based on a $240 coin weighing 123.274 grains of .9166 gold.
Peter.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Even made of a non-metal composite composition, struck or assembled by
technology routinely involving no "expensive" human labor - could a
"mil" be produced for today's currency system??? A "mil" would
probably cost several mils to make! Costs of handling would be
obscene compared to the mil's value.
oly
"I once knew a guy named 'James the Apostate', or was it "Julian'???
Mr. Jaggers
I've seen plastic tokens from various states denominated in the mill for use
in dealing with taxes.
James the Apostle [heh]
Mr. Jaggers
Does this mean I'm bound for Hell?
James the Unwashed
Peter Irwin
only One True Monetary System, and at the current exchange,
one US dollar will buy less than a True Penny since it (by definition)
takes nearly one thousand and nineteen and a half True Pence to
buy an ounce of gold.
Peter.
Mr. Jaggers
I'm having trouble with the term "True Penny". Please elaborate.
James the Denarius-Pincher
Peter Irwin
In the One True Monetary System there are 240 pence in a pound,
and a pound is equal (very very nearly) to 113 grains of fine
gold. The True Penny is the penny of the One True Monetary System,
and thus by definition 1019 1/2 of them will buy just a hair over
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
My maternal great-grandpa, a Scot by the name of Brown, met his first
wife at a Greater-Imperial Institute lecture on "The Evils of the
Decimal System".
Hopefully I'm no relation to "Mr. $297", el-Gordo Brown.
oly
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, but they were made 70 years ago when people would work real hard
for 20 cents per hour.
oly
Peter Irwin
>
> My maternal great-grandpa, a Scot by the name of Brown, met his first
> wife at a Greater-Imperial Institute lecture on "The Evils of the
> Decimal System".
>
people not only lose their ability to do mixed base compound
mental arithmetic, but lose their ability to do any sort of
arithmetic at all without calculators.
I once read an argument in favour of decimalization and metrification
which claimed that people would get better at arithmetic if they
had to do less of it. (I think it was by the otherwise mostly sane
Isaac Asimov) The argument is absurd. The only way to get good
at arithmetic is to do lots of it. Anything which requires you
to do more calculations will make you better at them.
(I'm not entirely serious)
Peter.
Mr. Jaggers
Et alors?
James the Non-Sequitator
Mr. Jaggers
Some of my distant ancestors grew up under the OTMS, but for some reason yet
unknown to me they chose to come to America. If I dug too deeply I might
find that they were horse thieves, so I try not to pursue the matter.
Anyway, if you can get your ounce of gold for 1019.5 current English
pennies, go for it.
James the Opportunist
oly
After almost 30 years as a financial auditor of one sort or another, I
have come to this conclusion:
If a person was capable of doing the math necessary to calculate the
compound interest and could understand just how much they would
utlimately pay (or at least be obligated for) --- then they would
never borrow the money in the first place.
Only the financially illiterate borrow vast sums of money in the first
place. The game is rigged from the git-go.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Let's see you calculate square roots the long way.
James the Mathematician
oly
> Peter Irwin wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, I could at least write the appropriate symbols to set up the
problem - the numbers that follow might be off a bit. This is the
veritable fruits of a late 60's, early 70's trip through the Math
Department.
I do think that I could perform addition under the old L/s/d system.
Not too hard for a fifty year old, despite being American.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Bullroar. Proper information facilitates proper decision-making. After
that, it's a matter of calculated risk. If people in history had followed
your advice, you and I would still owe fealty to Scandinavian and English
monarchs, respectively.
James the Vassal
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tiger is finding out what it is like to owe fealty to a Swede and mess
around.
oly
Mr. Jaggers
Ability to so calculate is a function of intelligence and education, not
nationality.
James the LSD Guy
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
The financial arrangements of Our Revolution did not bear close
scrutiny, and contributed greatly to the great neck-shaving
uncertainties in France which culminated in the years 1789-1815.
oly
Peter Irwin
>
>
approximation method. This was a shortfall in my education
I'm afraid. I should teach myself one of the more sophisticated
methods.
so for square root of two
1.5 1.4 1.41 1.42 1.415 1.414
x1.5 x1.4 x1.41 x1.42 x1.415 x1.414
-- -- -- -- -- ---
2.25 1.96 1.9881 2.0164 2.00225 1.99396
While I did in fact remember the first four digits, I will
say on my honour that I worked out the multiplication with
pencil and paper. (I have not checked them and it is possible,
but I think unlikely that I have made an error somewhere.)
Peter.
Peter Irwin
> Mr. Jaggers <lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com> wrote:
>>
>> Let's see you calculate square roots the long way.
>>
> The only way I was ever taught in school was the successive
> approximation method. This was a shortfall in my education
> I'm afraid. I should teach myself one of the more sophisticated
> methods.
>
> so for square root of two
> 1.5 1.4 1.41 1.42 1.415 1.414
> x1.5 x1.4 x1.41 x1.42 x1.415 x1.414
> -- -- -- -- -- ---
> 2.25 1.96 1.9881 2.0164 2.00225 1.99396
>
Peter.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
Whoa.
He went to a better school than me.
oly
Bruce Remick
"Peter Irwin" <pir...@ktb.net> wrote in message
news:hfpfqf$qir$2...@dns.ktb.net...
I could never understand how many people, other than captive students, would
ever have occasion to know or calculate the square root of two, to the
extent that this should be taught in school. I suspect it's probably for
the same reason that soldiers have to learn close order drill. You break
'em down with discipline and then reteach 'em the "right" way.
oly
>
> - Show quoted text -
I followed the program right up to the square root of 525; thanks to
the decimal system.
I can also do good shit with "a mile by a mile, or 640 acres", and an
Illinois' plat book.
oly
'I may be connected with the Busch family of Bavaria....'
George D
Actually it was $.25 per hour in 1938
http://www.workworld.org/wwwebhelp/external/minwage_chart.pdf
This is a interesting chart.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html
George
--
Government is a voracious monster that must have your labor to control
YOU! Your money is your liberty. The taxes you pay gently enslave you,
and eventually destroy any human liberty you have. Fear government, pray
for the country.
Sootlyrot
I recommend to you to visit a site, with an information large quantity
on a theme interesting you.
--
Sootlyrot
Mr. Jaggers
> I recommend to you to visit a site, with an information large quantity
> on a theme interesting you.
I'll do 'er, I'll turn rat around the first chancet I git.
Deacon James