flatsign.com update
Mindelec
i've been reading the various threads concerning tim miller for some time now.
i thought the group might like to see what he put in his latest "newsletter".
i've thought there was something fishy about this guy for some time... nobody
has that many signed books to sell consistantly and some of the final bids are
out of this world (the ltest example is heinlein's "to sail beyond the sunset"
going for $150... it's maybe a $75 book in fine condition).
here's what he wrote....
"Dear FlatSigner's:
My articles normally focus on the positive aspects of our community;
collecting advise, books and great deals. The last thing I want to do is
give attention, any attention, to any mean spirited attacks on our community
However, last week someone enrolled on ebay as BOOKSELLERS_OF_AMERICA and
sent an e-mail to dozens of members regarding www.FLATSIGNED.com. The
Antiquarian Booksellers of America (ABAA), an association of competing
bookstores, provided the content and someone posted the same email to three
different organized chat rooms on the internet. I personally work every day
with fellow book-sellers, many who are ABAA members even. Most are
wonderful people!
A few years ago, while sharing my ideas to build a company that provides
faster, more modern service and delivers a better product to book
collectors, I was asked by a UK member of the ABAA, "why re-invent the
wheel?" My response was that "thank goodness we can re-invent the wheel or
we would still be using wagon-wheels." That’s why competition is so good
for the consumer. His reaction was to swear to personally and permanently
bar me from being a member of the ABAA. I didn't want to join anyway; we
are an INDEPENDENT book-selling community and want to stay that way.
www.FLATSIGNED.com, is and always will be an INDEPENDENT company and be of
service to this great community of book collectors. These other people are
currently being investigated by ebay, myself and the United States legal
system for having violated ebay rules and the spirit of America. As a
matter of fact, one member of the ABAA has already been required to publish
a retraction and an apology for his false and libelous statements. The
McCarthyism of these people should not and will not stand; it is
un-American.
It is important to me that my phone number is in EVERY ebay listing and in
every email I send. You would think someone in search of the TRUTH would
simply phone me. Yesterday I phoned the person writing these emails Ken
Sanders of Ken Sanders Rare Books in Salt Lake City. He didn't want to
talk. How strange for someone trying to find truth. Anyone is welcome to
come here and see my operation and what we have to offer. Many are amazed
and jealous that we have so many signed books to offer you --- we work hard
and focus our time on positive goals. ALL OUR BOOKS ARE SOLD WITH A
WRITTEN, LIFETIME, MONEY BACK GUARANTEE and we will always proudly be an
INDEPENDENT book seller. I do regret that this negativity has found it's
way into our community but promise to continue bringing to all of you better
service and better books. Wagon wheels be damned.
Faithfully,
Tim Miller"
paghat
(Mindelec) wrote:
Yeh right, crooked incompetent bozos have McCarthyism to blame for being
crooked incompetent bozos. Does this kind of mentally retarded
self-justification really garner this shmuck customers? Maybe next he
should try whipping out his pecker & showing it around on a gradeschool
playground, it'd be as credible an argument for his excellence.
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Here dwell souls that did neither evil nor good."
-Inferno
Nigel Burwood
> From: mind...@aol.com (Mindelec)
> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> Newsgroups: rec.collecting.books
> Date: 29 Oct 2001 19:45:29 GMT
> Subject: flatsign.com update
>
> hi,
>
> i've been reading the various threads concerning tim miller for some time now.
> i thought the group might like to see what he put in his latest "newsletter".
> i've thought there was something fishy about this guy for some time... nobody
> has that many signed books to sell consistantly and some of the final bids are
> out of this world (the ltest example is heinlein's "to sail beyond the sunset"
> going for $150... it's maybe a $75 book in fine condition).
>
> here's what he wrote....
>
> "Dear FlatSigner's:
>
> My articles normally focus on the positive aspects of our community;
> collecting advise, books and great deals. The last thing I want to do is
> give attention, any attention, to any mean spirited attacks on our community
> However, last week someone enrolled on ebay as BOOKSELLERS_OF_AMERICA and
> sent an e-mail to dozens of members regarding www.FLATSIGNED.com. The
> Antiquarian Booksellers of America (ABAA), an association of competing
> bookstores, provided the content and someone posted the same email to three
> different organized chat rooms on the internet. I personally work every day
> with fellow book-sellers, many who are ABAA members even. Most are
> wonderful people!
>
> A few years ago, while sharing my ideas to build a company that provides
> faster, more modern service and delivers a better product to book
> collectors, I was asked by a UK member of the ABAA, "why re-invent the
> wheel?" My response was that "thank goodness we can re-invent the wheel or
> we would still be using wagon-wheels." That零 why competition is so good
This is a wonderful example of the truth of Doctor Johnson's quip
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."
And don't knock Wagon Wheels --they are darn tasty. Nigel
Trevian Bookshop
Every product that promises to grow hair, or provide eternal erections, or
stop the aging process, or increase brain functioning, or help you lose wait
while you eat twice as much as you did before, all come with a liftetime
moneyback guarantee. In writing. Whose lifetime? What is the estimated
lifespan of flatsign.com? I'd give it another six months before he
self-destructs.
Geoff Baere
Mindelec wrote in message <20011029144529...@mb-fd.aol.com>...
>we would still be using wagon-wheels." That’s why competition is so good
Mindelec
>"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."
>And don't knock Wagon Wheels --they are darn tasty. >Nigel
and this guy grabs that flag anytime he can. my own personal theory is that
he's operating some strange bizarre money laundering scheme.
robert
Mindelec
it's probably worth as much as his "cert of auth" on the signatures.
robert
David Ames
>
> Yeh right, crooked incompetent bozos have McCarthyism to blame for being
> crooked incompetent bozos. Does this kind of mentally retarded
> self-justification really garner this shmuck customers? Maybe next he
> should try whipping out his pecker & showing it around on a gradeschool
> playground, it'd be as credible an argument for his excellence.
>
> -paghat the ratgirl
If he did that, perhaps he would wind up where he belongs?
David Ames
Steven Schend
"Nigel Burwood" <char...@anyamountofbooks.com> wrote in message
news:B803B794.129B7%char...@anyamountofbooks.com...
> And don't knock Wagon Wheels --they are darn tasty. Nigel
Steven comes out of longtime lurk mode to curse you for getting that silly
little 30 year old jingle stuck in his head all day....
Saturday morning Schoolhouse Rock cartoons imprint on the brain far longer
than anyone ever warned us......
Steven
Whose ten-gallon-hat is feeling sagged down and flat.....
WordMan
> >Is there anything more meaningless than a lifetime >moneyback guarantee?
>
> it's probably worth as much as his "cert of auth" on the signatures.
>
> robert
Could someone quickly summarize what the arguments are in the letter
that Flatsigned is protesting? I have seen his stuff from time to
time and been suspicious of it (branding a way to sign a book seems a
little off), but I am not familiar with the core complaints of the
ABAA'ers he references in his response...thanks in advance.
paghat
"Steven Schend" <steven...@earthlink.net> wrote:
The best way to get a jingle out of your head is to think of another one.
Brill Cream, a little dabble do ya
Use More, only if you dare
But Watch Out, the gals will all pursue ya
They'll love to get their fingers in your greasy hair.
paghat
scott.l...@accenture.com (WordMan) wrote:
It seems to be an attempt to "strike first" & the ABAA has done nothing
whatsoever to Flatulent Flatty except look into the number of complaints.
Convinced they're going to be able to document way too much dubious or
even criminal behavior, he's getting a headstart complaining about how
evil they are; & knowing nobody is apt to let a crook join, it's always
nice to tell everyone "I didn't wanna join that club anyway." Which is a
little bit like falling face-forward on a big dog turd & then saying, "I
meant to do that," instead of cleaning his face.
Suds1130
Nah- that's what we thought, greasy, but it just goes: "They'll love to run
their fingers through your hair."
Editor SUE in TX
Max Johnson
fingers through any man's hair. She added 'greasy' to show her distaste
and muck up the meter of an already ludicrous jingle. You rose to the bait
jes like a big ol' Texas bass. Max
----------
In article <20011031073631...@mb-ft.aol.com>, suds...@aol.com
rou...@flatsigned.com
zShops under two different names - the expected wwwflatsignedcom
and the more "hidden" wefindit22. He hasn't come close to the
maximum number of items allowed in zShops on either account, so one
suspects he opened the second to hide from the lousy feedback he's
received on the first, but then again he's racking up lousy feedback on the
second account too, so who knows?
paghat
<mar...@qwest.net> wrote:
> Sue, Paghat is a self-desctibed lesbian. She doesn't want to run her
> fingers through any man's hair. She added 'greasy' to show her distaste
> and muck up the meter of an already ludicrous jingle. You rose to the bait
> jes like a big ol' Texas bass. Max
The other cure for a jingle stuck on a sound-loop in your brain, is a
cartoon theme song:
Mister Trouble never hangs around
When he he hears this mighty sound
"Here I come to save the day!"
That means that Mighty Mouse is on the way.
Oh yessir when there is a wrong to right
Mighty Mouse will join the fight
On the sea or on the land
He's got the situation well in hand.
> ----------
> In article <20011031073631...@mb-ft.aol.com>, suds...@aol.com
> (Suds1130) wrote:
>
>
> >>greasy hair.
> >
> > Nah- that's what we thought, greasy, but it just goes: "They'll love to run
> > their fingers through your hair."
> >
> > Editor SUE in TX
--
Max Johnson
----------
In article <paghatSPAMMENOT-...@soggy72.drizzle.com>,
paghatS...@netscape.net (paghat) wrote:
> In
> The other cure for a jingle stuck on a sound-loop in your brain, is a
> cartoon theme song:
>
> Mister Trouble never hangs around
> When he he hears this mighty sound
> "Here I come to save the day!"
> That means that Mighty Mouse is on the way.
>
> Oh yessir when there is a wrong to right
> Mighty Mouse will join the fight
> On the sea or on the land
> He's got the situation well in hand.
>
>
>
> There is a popular short story from long ago about a jingle that a man
couldn't get out of his head until he taught it to another, thus freeing
himself. It had to do with streetcar fares, I believe. " A pink trip slip
for a ......." It may have been written by Twain or Poe and represented the
ultimate in mindless addicting ditties. Max
Denise Enck
--
Denise Enck
www.emptymirrorbooks.com
Empty Mirror Books, PO Box 972 Mukilteo, WA 98275
Specializing in the Beat Generation & Small-Press Poetry
<rou...@flatsigned.com> wrote in message
news:3be1cb33...@news.ne.mediaone.net...
Dick Stephens
I think he also uses the name timmiller on Amazon.com.
Dick Stephens
"Denise Enck" <d.e...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3JnE7.152700$3d2.5...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Denise Enck
--
Denise Enck
www.emptymirrorbooks.com
Empty Mirror Books, PO Box 972 Mukilteo, WA 98275
Specializing in the Beat Generation & Small-Press Poetry
"Dick Stephens" <mjste...@home.com> wrote in message
news:bVnE7.5755$Tb.30...@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com...
Trevian Bookshop
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/tg/customer-feedback/-/A1DE9IGVUD1ZCE/0/1/0
02-0874942-0836005
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/my-zshop/S389645QF3A27/002-0874942-08360
05
Geoff Baere
rou...@flatsigned.com wrote in message
<3be1cb33...@news.ne.mediaone.net>...
Randy Burns
I get a closed notice on the second link for the Zshops. I wonder if from
the comments posted on the first link, if flatsigned is taking multiple
orders for some books and then going out to find copies to provide to the
customers.
--
>TERRIBLE. Book ordered 6/7. Not available NO notification, no refund until
6/25"
>Date
It's possible that having double sold an item he waited to see if he could
find another one to ship. Either that or he is just out to lunch. Actually
if he is new to Amazon in June (as I was) he may have simply had a bit of a
learning curve in getting used to their system. I know I did.
Randy
Trevian Bookshop <tre...@qed.net> wrote in message
news:tu5a1fk...@corp.supernews.com...
Trevian Bookshop
unsatisfied customers.
Geoff Baere
Randy Burns wrote in message ...
Mindelec
book from me and the answering emails and payment came from tim, obviously he
uses this one to buy some of the items he will later sell.
jerry morris
here's one of his ebay pseudo's "cadizborn". different email, but he
bought a book from me and the answering emails and payment came from
tim, obviously he uses this one to buy some of the items he will later
sell.
Say what you want about www.flatsigned.con, but it appears that he
has a loyal following on ebay!
In the last thirty days, no less than five user ids have been used to
bid on nothing but flatsigned auctions!
lieben-hund, who joined ebay on Mar 5, 2001, has bid on 16 flatsigned
auctions in the last thirty days. He was high bidder in fourteen of
these sixteen auctions. He has received 121 feedbacks in the last six
months, but he only has a (6) ebay rating.
liconsult, who joined ebay way back on Feb 3,1999, only has a (3) ebay
rating. He has bid on eight auctions in the last thirty days, all
flatsigned auctions, five of which he was the high bidder. Records only
show two feedbacks in the last six months.
gwfcrb, who joined ebay on Mar 9, 2001 has bid on 59 auctions in the
last thirty days, all flatsigned auctions. He was the high bidder in
thirty of these auctions. Although gwfcrb has received 80 feedbacks in
the last six months, he only has a (2) feedback rating.
joemad3, who joined ebay way back on Sept 3,1999, has bid on 26
flatsigned auctions in the last thirty days. He was high bidder on nine
of these auctions. Records show thirteen feedbacks in the last six
months, including two negative feedbacks. He has an ebay rating of (4).
dareeagle is the newest one to join the loyal fold of flatsigned.comma.
He joined on Oct.20, 2001. Already he has bid on 37 auctions, all of
which have been flatsigned auctions. He has been the high bidder on
twenty-two of these auctions. He has an ebay rating of (0).
With five bidders bidding on nothing but flatsigned auctions, it is
amazing that there aren't more auctions where they have bid against each
other. Go figger!
True, there have been some bidding wars between gwfcrb and joemad3 in
the last thirty days that have gone over three hundred dollars, but in
all cases involved, the third bidder is not a loyal flatsigned bidder.
It doesn't appear that any of these bidders are snipers; I noticed quite
a few auctions where these loyal flatsigned bidders have bid at least
three times in the same auction! In some of these auctions, the
bidders got to bid another day, because the reserve was not been met.
In the majority, however, the five loyal flatsigned bidders have either
met the reserve or won the auctions hands down.
Yes, say what you want about flatsigned, but I don't think any other
ebay seller commands such loyalty: Five bidders have bid on a total of
146 auctions, and every single one of them has been a flatsigned
auction. Amazing!
Jerry Morris
Willem Timmer
signed items, are in fact shill bidders?
(if shill is the right word)
it is amazing they only bid on items from flatsigned. how many times
do you see that?
they might be friends, family whatever.
items that have got staying in that group might be offered again
months later without anybody easily noticing.
but that can be checked also.
Willem
John Pelan
<wjti...@worldonline.nl> wrote:
>Any possibility that these loyal bidders who seem to bid only on flat
>signed items, are in fact shill bidders?
>(if shill is the right word)
>it is amazing they only bid on items from flatsigned. how many times
>do you see that?
>they might be friends, family whatever.
>items that have got staying in that group might be offered again
>months later without anybody easily noticing.
>but that can be checked also.
>
>Willem
Golly! That would be dishonest!
John
kesrith99
be explained by shill bidding.
Regards, Tim
jerry morris wrote in message
<20606-3BE...@storefull-106.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Nigel Burwood
thing ? Nigel
John Pelan
<char...@anyamountofbooks.com> wrote:
>Isn't a shill bidder supposed to underbid a book, not to actually buy the
>thing ? Nigel
Or cause the mark to pay the price wanted by the seller...
If you were to have a book that has an ECV of, say $500 and you had a
reserve of, say $300 on it and received one bid of $300, four or five
days into the auction, spirited bidding between two shills might drive
the the price up close to the seller's ideal. Should the one legit
bidder win the auction, the seller comes out ahead, should the mark
NOT win the auction, he can be contacted by the seller with the claim
that "the high bidder reneged, youur highest bid was... Would you
like the book for that amount..."
Of course if no one else bids at all, the seller winds up paying final
value fees, fairly small potatoes if he's able to pull in a mark even
20% of the time on items of over $100 or so in value.
Not to imply that anyone we know of is actually doing this...
John
bhead...@fakeaddress.com
I do think Jerry was being a bit ironic.
maiasaura
> mind...@aol.com (Mindelec) wrote:
> here's one of his ebay pseudo's "cadizborn". different email, but he
> bought a book from me and the answering emails and payment came from
> tim, obviously he uses this one to buy some of the items he will later
> sell.
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Say what you want about www.flatsigned.con, but it appears that he
> has a loyal following on ebay!
snip
Hmmm -- somone should alert Ebay Safe Harbor about this -- that is, if
someone hasn't already . . . .
--
Visit Maiasaura Books & The Dog Collector at http://www.maiasaura.com/
Bat Boy Lives! Visit http://www.batboylives.com
Iron Chef USA http://www.ironchef-usa.com
The Holocaust History Project http://www.holocaust-history.org
Simon Procter
> Of course if no one else bids at all, the seller winds up paying final
> value fees, fairly small potatoes if he's able to pull in a mark even
> 20% of the time on items of over $100 or so in value.
>
> Not to imply that anyone we know of is actually doing this...
>
> John
>
Is this know as flatshilling?
Simon
Mindelec
this info to ebay? (safeh...@ebay.com) i'm sure they would love to hear
about such a loyal following ;-)
robert
Mindelec
>Date: Sat, Nov 3, 2001 3:14 PM
>Message-id: <3BE45DDF...@home.com>
done! with the intro "found this in a newsgroup, thought you might want to
look into it..."
let's see what happens, though ebay wont tell, we can watch, lol
robert
Suds1130
>this info to ebay?
Don't count on much of a response. I had some hinky bidding going on about a
year ago in one of mine- what I suspected was bid "sheltering" and saw similar
patterns on the same item over the earlier two weeks. I reported to
SAfeHarbor, identified all auctions- and was told that they coudn't just assume
that this was what was going on and basically did nothing. So much for
"investigation". Maybe it has now changed.
SUE in TX
Mindelec
>Date: Sun, Nov 4, 2001 9:48 PM
>Message-id: <20011104224825...@mb-ca.aol.com>
don't know if it's changed, i've often gotten a form "thanksm appropriate
action will be taken if neccessary" mail. but the never say what if any
action. you know you can block bidders now, that would possibly solve your
problem.
robert
Keak Breedbate
shows you a legitimate scan and then ships you a forgery
I heard that the FBI is currently investigating him. He shipped some Brit
dealer a shitload of bogus Harper Lee signed Mockingbird anniversary
editions. Of course the example on the Ebay page was an authentic signature
<rou...@flatsigned.com> wrote in message
news:3be1cb33...@news.ne.mediaone.net...
Dathan Flint
The ABAA, have a duty to maintain the standards of bookdealing. I
believe Timmy is complaining because those standards are too high.
Well atleast to high for him. I believe Timmy wants to build a
community where it is okay to shaft your customers, without
interference from others. Guess that is why he is on ebay they seem
to be happy to let him get away with whatever he wants. Gee why would
Timmy want to join the ABAA, there you have to buy and sell books that
are actually signed by the author's, you aren't allowed to signed the
books yourself. Further as an ABAA member you actually have to pay
for the books you buy.
You see on ebay in his own community Timmy can bid on his own auctions
sell a book to one of his aliases if it doesn't make enough and then
sell it again a little while later. Ebay have been informed of an
occassion where timmy sold one of his books to one of his obvious
aliases and then offered it again a little while later. Bold as he is
he is also a little stupid because this was a numbered edition and
obviously identifiable. What did ebay do, nothing.
On another occasion Timmy sold a book, the signature was later proved
to be false and return to him with proof. Bold as brass he offered it
again, still claiming it to be a true signed book. A little more
cunning this time, he ran it as a private auction. Ebay were informed
what did they do nothing.
The one thing that I hope for that when Timmy ends up in prison is
that ebay are made to pay as compensation the amount that all his
shill bids have increased auctions by.
paghat
dba...@hotmail.com (Dathan Flint) wrote:
If anyone documented extremely carefully a number of representative
examples of eBay's refusal to act in such cases, a class-action suit might
well be launched against them, gaining damages-plus for all the thousands
of people who have been ripped off with the unmet expectation that eBay
would not assist sellers eBay knows to be outright crooks.
-paghat the ratgirl
William M. Klimon
18 U.S.C. Sec. 1343. Fraud by wire, radio, or television
"Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to
defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent
pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be
transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in
interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or
sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined
under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. If the
violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not
more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both. "
Cheers.
William M. Klimon
http://www.gateofbliss.com
Robin Baker
potiential customer wrote and asked me if it was 'flatsigned'. My
response was, "no, Flat didn't sign it, I stood in line and had the
Kinkster do it himself."
Rob
Mindelec
>Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2001 9:58 AM
>Message-id: <e074fc80.0111...@posting.google.com>
LOL, good one ;-)
robert