Q re. stability of adjustable v. fixed home walls
markinthailand
I've read through the archives of this group, as well as done a pretty
exhaustive search on the 'net, and I still can't get this question
answered.
How stable, in terms of movement side-to-side, are ajustable home walls?
The reason I ask is that right now mine is a fixed angle, and I'm going
to make it steeper. I'm wondering if I should just make it adjustable
using one of the various methods (chain, etc.), but I'm concerned about
it moving while I'm using it.
What are people's thoughts on various methods of adjustability? I'm
thinking some old climbing rope and a couple of Triblocs. :-)
-markinthailand
PS. For the humor impared, I'm joking about the Triblocs.
markinthailand
markinthailand <markr...@pobox.com> wrote:
> PS. For the humor impared, I'm joking about the Triblocs.
Doh! Spelling error...Tibloc :-)
Chiloe
>
> > PS. For the humor impared, I'm joking about the Triblocs.
>
> Doh! Spelling error...Tibloc :-)
I thought that was part of your joke. The Tibloc threads
contain plenty of Triblocs.
Nafod40
> All:
>
> I've read through the archives of this group, as well as done a pretty
> exhaustive search on the 'net, and I still can't get this question
> answered.
>
> How stable, in terms of movement side-to-side, are ajustable home walls?
>
> The reason I ask is that right now mine is a fixed angle, and I'm going
> to make it steeper. I'm wondering if I should just make it adjustable
> using one of the various methods (chain, etc.), but I'm concerned about
> it moving while I'm using it.
My wall, which is 8' wide by 10' tall, built from 2" x 4" studs and
3/4" plywood, is attached to the wall only at the top two corners. I
used metal straps with holes in them every 3" or so, like you can buy
at any hardware store, to allow easy adjustment of the angle. Each
strap runs from the top corner to a stud in the wall. It takes seconds
to undo the bolt, adjust the position, and reset. The bottom of the
wall just sits on the floor and is held against the garage wall by its
own weight. I thought I would need to attach it at the bottom, but it
has never been an issue. I use it like a wall for endurance hangs, and
also like a campus board for no-feet routes. It's plenty sturdy as is.
Zeki Melek
Most of the information I could able to find out so far are all related with
the fixed walls.
I has planning to do an adjustable one for some time but I am used to
ceilings made of cement and I have doubts about the stability of this
american house with studs. You were saying that you attach your wall to only
2 studs on the ceiling, am I correct, or did you use some kind of
reinforcement to these studs? And what kind of screw you suggest to use on
these studs?
Thanks,
Zeki
Mad Dog
>How stable, in terms of movement side-to-side, are ajustable home walls?
First off, having an adjustable angle wall is a very good idea if you want to
get stronger. No doubt about it.
Stability will depend upon design and construction. Side to side stability
shouldn't really be an issue with an adjustable wall. I'm assuming that you are
talking about a typical home gym, made with a stud wall covered with plywood.
If the stud wall is built properly and if you attach 3/4" plywood to it
properly, the wall will be extremely strong towards side-to-side deflection.
I'd be more worried about front to back stability and I recommend having a
redundant support system to ensure that the wall doesn't fall onto the climber.
I've built two adjustable walls and have climbed on a few others. My first one
was an adjustable system wall about 6' wide and 13' tall. It was attached to
the floor with door hinges and could rotate from ~10 degrees overhanging to ~35
degrees over. I drilled holes through the stud wall and ran a 1/2" threaded rod
through. The rod ran through two sheets of 1/2" plywood that wre attached to
the ceiling studs and formed a sort of box along the sides of the wall. I sawed
an arc in the plywood for the rod to pass through. By tightening washered bolts
on the outside, the wall could be bound at any angle. I ran a steel cable
through pulleys and hung plates of lead as counterbalances. My backup was a 2x8
lagged into the back wall, which I attached to the adjustable wall with webbing
and screamers. The problem with this wall was that when I got it really loaded
up with system holds, it was heavy enough to be scary.
I recently built an 8' wide x 12' tall adjustable wall that will go from an 85
degree slab to 30 degrees over. The wall itself is a typical 2x6 studwall on
16" centers. At a point about 8' above the bottom of the wall, we lagged a 2x12
cross-ways onto the back of the wall. It is about 6" wider than the wall and
acts as an axle for the wall to pivot on. The axle sets in a cradle made up of
plywood over a 2x6 stud wall. The cradle is two support walls, setting 8'1"
apart - the extra inch is a little slop to allow the climbing wall to pivot
between the cradle walls. The axle sets in a notch cut into the cradle wall
headers. The angle is fixed by a 1/2" threaded rod that runs through an arced
slot in the cradle wall plywood.
If you need to see this more clearly, email me and I'll send you some photos.
It's actually very easy to build and reasonably cheap. The cost of the wood,
hardware and t-nuts was $300, which isn't bad for an ~100 square foot adjustable
wall. This thing wouldn't fit into most homes or garages, but a scaled down one
that would could be built for about $200. We did a real tight t-nut grid (4"
spacing, ~280 t-nuts per sheet) and that adds considerably to the cost. Like I
said before, I think you need a redundant system to support the wall. I used
two ropes that come tight when the wall is at max tilt. The ropes are anchored
to the wall above and behind. Bomber. This is more complex than a system that
uses something like chain links to adjust the angle. But our wall allows minute
changes in the angle of the wall and that's a huge advantage if you want to do
system training. You can also use a rope binding system to get a continuously
variable angle, but I don't want a wall that will bounce around if someone is
doing dynamic moves.
I've also climbed on a wall that was attached to a garage roof with barn door
hinges. The angle of the wall was varied by putting 2x6 blocks under the bottom
of the wall. This is a very inexpensive design that works well, but the owner
had no backups and it was freaky to me to be climbing on a wall secured with
just six 1.5" screws into a single ceiling 2x6. If you made a secure hinge
system and maybe had a rope or sling backup, this would work well. One problem
is that, at high tilts, the bottom footholds are well up off of the floor. You
could have a movable kickwall to fix that problem. A big advantage to this
system is that the wall can be pulled up out of the way when you are not
climbing, so it doesn't eat up any garage floor space.
markinthailand
wrote:
> First off, having an adjustable angle wall is a very good idea if you want to
> get stronger. No doubt about it.
Yes, and a big plus is that it doesn't get boring--especially key with a
small wall (8x8) like I have.
> Stability will depend upon design and construction. Side to side stability
> shouldn't really be an issue with an adjustable wall.
Great.
> I'm assuming that you are talking about a typical home gym, made with
> a stud wall covered with plywood.
Yes.
> I'd be more worried about front to back stability and I recommend having a
> redundant support system to ensure that the wall doesn't fall onto the
> climber.
That is an excellent idea, and one I've been thinking through myself--as
you mention below, once it gets all the holds on in it is REALLY heavy
and would probably kill anyone it fell on.
[edit]
> This is more complex than a system
> that
> uses something like chain links to adjust the angle. But our wall allows
> minute
> changes in the angle of the wall and that's a huge advantage if you want to
> do
> system training. You can also use a rope binding system to get a
> continuously
> variable angle, but I don't want a wall that will bounce around if someone is
> doing dynamic moves.
I agree with the bouncing concern--which I would imagine would be an
issue with both chain and rope. I would not want to shock load the
anchors of the wall.
Do people find that chains allow for bounce? If the wall is fully
loaded with holds, etc, would bouncing be a major concern?`
> I've also climbed on a wall that was attached to a garage roof with barn door
> hinges. [edit]...it was freaky to me to be climbing on a wall secured with
> just six 1.5" screws into a single ceiling 2x6.
YIKES!
Here is what I'm working with.
I've got a deck on the back of my house. The floor is tile over cement.
(I can drill into that if I want). The wall of the house is cement.
The roof is not an option to attach anything to, as I'd have to rip out
ceiling and the studs, such that they are, woudn't support much weight.
(This IS Thailand, after all, and the idea of building codes are...not
really here yet!).
Currently I've got four angle brackets mounted on the wall--two at the
bottom, two at the top, on the SIDES of the 8x8 wall, sort of like this:
] ===== [
=====
=====
] ===== [
The brackets are mounted into the cement wall with two expansion bolts
per bracket.
I have the climbing wall at an angle "hinged" on the bottom with a 12 mm
bolt on each bracket going through the bracket and then into the stud
which is the side of the climbing wall, secured by a t-nut (and plenty
of bolt sticking through the t-nut so even if the nut spins, it will
still not pull out). I used the t-nuts on the side studs so I don't
have to get in there when trying to tighten things up. The "hinge"
bolts are there so that if I strip out some t-nuts I can lower the wall
and deal with them.
The top is a square piece of plywood attached to the bracket (with a
bolt) and then two 12 mm bolts on the climbing wall. The wall is at a
slight angle overhanging.
Let me mull this over some and e-mail/post my idea--it might be useful
to others as well.
Thanks again for the good comments and interesting idea on the way to do
the adjustability.
-markinthailand
Jason Kester
>
> How stable, in terms of movement side-to-side, are ajustable home walls?
> What are people's thoughts on various methods of adjustability? I'm
> thinking some old climbing rope and a couple of Triblocs. :-)
That's actually workable. I'd go with a static rope though.
My wall is supported w/ 1" tubular webbing, rigged through a couple
pulleys for leverage, and secured to the frame with a cleat. There is
an inch or so of outward flex when you're on the upper section. Not
noticable when you're on it, but fun to watch when your 200 pound
friend throws for the lip.
Side to side is never a problem. Just make sure the frame is solid,
do your math well, and you should be fine.