French Kissing
Clive C. Burro
but this is my second similar experience in this international arena
and all other climbing nationalities seem to be most polite and
considerate.
On a recent climb in Yosemite (exposed Grade IV 5.10) my partner and I
were overtaken by a French party of two and passed, literally climbed
over and through (close enough to be tongued) without any decorum
what-so-ever. We were not climbing slow and had done the route twice
before. We objected briefly but for safety let'em go. There was some
satisfaction (well a lot of satisfaction) though later as the two
French crankers got off route (we offered beta but were ignored) we
passed them not to see them anymore that day.
Any French climbers care to respond?
Anyone have similar experiences?
Is this normal French climbing 'etiquette'?
Mad Dog
>On a recent climb in Yosemite (exposed Grade IV 5.10) my partner and I
>were overtaken by a French party of two and passed, literally climbed
>over and through (close enough to be tongued) without any decorum
>what-so-ever. We were not climbing slow and had done the route twice
>before. We objected briefly but for safety let'em go. There was some
>satisfaction (well a lot of satisfaction) though later as the two
>French crankers got off route (we offered beta but were ignored) we
>passed them not to see them anymore that day.
>Any French climbers care to respond?
>Anyone have similar experiences?
>Is this normal French climbing 'etiquette'?
Clive, climbing is more popular in Europe than it is here and classic climbs can
be very crowded. Passing without permission is very common over there and many
Euros are not concerned with meeting other climbers or chewing the fat. So your
observations are not limited to the French. In fact, more and more American
climbers are adopting the same behavior. I've only had this happen once, when a
German team tried to pass us while my partner was leading the first pitch of a 6
pitch route. The problem was, their leader crossed our rope to the left, then
back to the right. At that point, I yelled up for him to stop because my leader
was on a difficult lead and I was concerned about one rope cutting the other in
a fall. He heard me yell up and replied "fuck you", so I nabbed his line and
gave him some "attention tension". He got the point and backed off. I followed
and we never saw them again, so obviously, we were not slowing them down.
AdeBK
You sure they were French? Were they climbing very fast while chain smoking?
Yes, unfortuately...French climbers seem to have this deserved rep here in the
states as we fat ass American loud talkers have over there.
C'est la Vie and also, that's life.
My advice, feel the hate, take the piss, finish the climb and move on.
Anne in that's a Brit term there NYC
r.na...@btclick.com
Clive C. Burro <clive...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Is this normal French climbing 'etiquette'?
Unfortunately, it seems to be so. This behaviour's very common in the Alps.
It's not *only* indulged in by the French, but they do form the majority of
culprits. Friends who were in the Alps last week were harrassed on numerous
occasions by French climbers. Not just passing, but even clipping into
other people's gear (without asking, needless to say). Some of the French
guides were particularly obnoxious, with comments like "why are you on *our*
mountain without paying a guide?", treading on ropes, pushing past
dangerously etc.
Rob
Mike
>
Mike
Omega Man
--
K
Clive C. Burro <clive...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:33204f9b.01081...@posting.google.com...
jeff
horrified by what i saw--even worse than squamish newbies.
i did hear about a serious accident caused by crossed ropes. crossing
ropes is very dangerous obviously. attention tension is a good
strategy but so is cutting their rope--or at least pull out your knife
and threaten to. i don't care where they're from, there is no excuse
for such arrogance, especially when it threatens my life!
i certainly hope i offended somebody this time.
jeff
"Omega Man" <omeg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<ChWf7.52717$gj1.4...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
Vincent
It is not standard french climbing etiquette... As I am climbing in
france almost every week-end, I would know ! Anyway, this is true
that in the
Chamonix area during high season on very classic routes, some mountain
guides
act like if they were owner of the mountain...
But as soon as you leave the crowded classic routes, there is no
problem.
-- Vincent
Frank Stock
> Normally I wouldn't feel the urge to post this type of question here
> but this is my second similar experience in this international arena
> and all other climbing nationalities seem to be most polite and
> considerate.
> On a recent climb in Yosemite (exposed Grade IV 5.10) my partner and I
> were overtaken by a French party of two and passed, literally climbed
> over and through (close enough to be tongued) without any decorum
> what-so-ever. We were not climbing slow and had done the route twice
> before. We objected briefly but for safety let'em go. There was some
> satisfaction (well a lot of satisfaction) though later as the two
> French crankers got off route (we offered beta but were ignored) we
> passed them not to see them anymore that day.
Appearantly you were climbing slow to them, or they couldn't have been
able to pass you. A discussion by them before they slid by you would
have been appropriate, but would it have mattered a lot to your
perspective or the end outcome? Would you have let them pass if they
asked or was the exposure and length of the climb pressing you to keep
moving in order to finish safely?
I can think of several similar instances including Exum guides on
Baxters Pinnacle in the Tetons all summer, or any given day on the
convergence point of routes on the first flatiron in Boulder where
people commonly just pass. It's not necessarily a french thing, but
more of a human nature thing. Some people handle passing better than
others. Some people also handle being passed better than others.
> Any French climbers care to respond?
> Anyone have similar experiences?
> Is this normal French climbing 'etiquette'?
This has to be a troll to stir up some french bashing...If you are
climbing 5.10 Grade IV then you certainly have had to deal with
passing and being passed with some regularity in your climbing career
and are familiar with differing attitudes of climbers when passing.
(or else your a freekish child prodigy that has climbed for a couple
months and is knocking out 5.10 valley routes).
A good flip side conversation could be had here. In general, it seems
like people hate to be passed. Whether that's because of pride or
general safety isn't always clear. But does someone own the route and
have the right to dictate how every party behind them moves? If
everyone agrees to passing, everything is easy, but what if someone
doesn't let a party pass? If you've just done a 4 hour approach but
someone slower beats you by 10 minutes do you turn around and go home
if there isn't another route worth doing at the area? How about if
you've traveled extensively to do an area classic and a slow party is
clogging the route- is it ok to pass even if the lead party is
objecting?
Cheers,
Frank
Dingus Milktoast
>
> But does someone own the route and
> have the right to dictate how every party behind them moves?
And I bit.
No one but Stu owns routes these days. It's called etiquette
Frank, as you know well, and it applies equally to golf,
climbing passes and frenchmen. Sometimes it isn't about
safety or any of that other shit. Sometimes the passed party
simply doesn't want to sit idle for an hour to satisfy the
speed urges of an asshole guide or an asshole foursome on
the course. Etiquette dictates that the passed party
controls the pass.
> If
> everyone agrees to passing, everything is easy, but what if someone
> doesn't let a party pass?
Then the lower party can munch on some tough shit.
> If you've just done a 4 hour approach but
> someone slower beats you by 10 minutes do you turn around and go home
> if there isn't another route worth doing at the area?
Why should the party who got there ahead by 10 minutes be
the one turned away? This is a bizarre example. The clear
answer is "YES." The lesson is for party #2 to get out of
bed earlier next time. Grasshopper had to learn this. I'd be
happy to teach some french climbers this, should they happen
to catch me on a route. Bank on it in fact. Clip my pro on
the lead and you will get a chance to test my pro setting
skills.
> How about if
> you've traveled extensively to do an area classic and a slow party is
> clogging the route- is it ok to pass even if the lead party is
> objecting?
Let's use one of the classic Tuolumne Meadows examples:
Regular Route on Fairview. I climbed it this past Saturday
as a party of 3. When we got to the base of the climb at a
mellow 9:30 or so, there were of course already multiple
parties on the route with another set to blast off at the
base. Yet another party of two came up as we waited for the
guys ahead of us to finish pitch one and get going on pitch
two. That next party had deluded visions of passing us.
Foolish, foolish boys. Why on earth should we have let them
pass? So they could pass the next 5 parties and end up
making, what, 10 - 15 climbers stand around for hours while
they waltzed up a route they should have started much
earlier or much later? Or just make us wait another hour.
Why? Well, cause we got there first. First is bad! Last is
good cause last gets to go first. But if first is bad, why
should last get to do it first? Where is the logic in that?
Nope. It is not OK to pass when the party above says no.
There are of course exceptions.
DMT
@pacbell.net S Shiboski
I just got back from doing a few climbs around Chamonix
with a local french guide. We lost 2-3 hours following an italian
party on the Pointe Lachenal because my guide didn't want
to pass. Also, he scrupulously collected his cigarette butts
(and those of others), and was very respectful of the environment.
His explanation of passing was that potentially very severe
conditions and slow parties often demanded it. We climbed
fast and never got passed...
nathan sweet
>
>If everyone agrees to passing, everything is easy <snip>
Sometimes. Not always.
If someone is representing themselves as "fast" when they ask to pass, then
they had better be Florine fast. Not just competent, or steady, but
blindingly fast.
Really really early one morning.....
Him:"Do you mind if we climb through before you clean that pitch?"
Me:"..um...are you fast?"
Him:"Oh yeah! We've done this route before"
Me:"well....ok..cool..you can use my top anchor too. It will save time. Go
ahead."
----later....at the belay------
Him:"Wow, you are here already? You seconded that pretty quickly..."
Me:"Um...yeah..thanks, so where is your partner? Setting up the next belay?"
Him:"um....no, she's about 40 feet up this pitch."
Awkward silence.....
Her:"Hey, where does the route go from this pin..?"
Snip much shouted beta, gear sugestions and more lies about familiarity and
speed....
nathan (once bitten) sweet
Tim Giles
>On a recent climb in Yosemite (exposed Grade IV 5.10) my partner and I
>were overtaken by a French party of two and passed, literally climbed
>over and through (close enough to be tongued) without any decorum
>what-so-ever.
That's what they call panache. At least, it is until the trodden-on party
ties a large knot in the rope of the treader.
>Is this normal French climbing 'etiquette'?
Not really.
A select few, including some guides, could benefit from some education.
It's the same everywhere tho.
Tim
Batten
The basic rule for Rockclimbing in this country is that the team already on the
rock has the final say. If a party does not want you to pass, then please
respect their wishes.
As I recall?
About 15 years ago two well know Yosemite SAR? Climbers were making a speed
ascent of the east buttress of Middle. Near the top (pitch 8)they came across
another team that told them they would have to wait to pass for a few pitches.
The climber had done the route before and was aware of loose rocks on the upper
pitches. The passing climbers ignored their wishes. After climbing a few
hundred feet higher one of the passing climbers disloged a rock about the size
of a softball.
One of the lower climbers a young women, heard the call of rock and looked up.
She shielded her face with her hand, the rock hit her hand and severed three
fingers?, then struck her head. She woke up in the Hospital Days later with
brain damage. A helmet would have helped.
The climbers that that disloged the rock, in retrospect stated that they
had been in the wrong, and were actually quite sorry. They had to carry that
with them to.
Fish or one of the YOSAR guys probally knows more,
it was a major rescue.
It actually went to a civil court of law.
If someone asks you to wait - then please wait.
Peace and Love
Batten
Clive C. Burro
> clive...@yahoo.com (Clive C. Burro) wrote in message news:<33204f9b.01081...@posting.google.com>...
> > Normally I wouldn't feel the urge to post this type of question here
> > but this is my second similar experience in this international arena
> > and all other climbing nationalities seem to be most polite and
> > considerate.
> > On a recent climb in Yosemite (exposed Grade IV 5.10) my partner and I
> > were overtaken by a French party of two and passed, literally climbed
> > over and through (close enough to be tongued) without any decorum
> > what-so-ever. We were not climbing slow and had done the route twice
> > before. We objected briefly but for safety let'em go. There was some
> > satisfaction (well a lot of satisfaction) though later as the two
> > French crankers got off route (we offered beta but were ignored) we
> > passed them not to see them anymore that day.
Ah, while not my intention I figured my post would hook a flamer
sooner or later.
> Appearantly you were climbing slow to them, or they couldn't have been
> able to pass you.
They were simuling on a short rope with no more than two pieces
between them...
Dangerous by my standards and for anyone they are passing.
>A discussion by them before they slid by you would
> have been appropriate, but would it have mattered a lot to your
> perspective or the end outcome?
It would have mattered greatly as I have no problem letting anyone
pass as long as intentions are made, discussed and safe passage can be
made. Again my only problem here was the arrogance, lack of
communication and total disregard these guys had for anyone else on
the rock. And the post would never have been considered had this been
just the first such experience with French climbers. Armstrong had
just won the Tour a few days before, maybe.... (Language was not a
problem as I speak French as well as Italian and Spanish, with
passable German [i was a translator with the Air Force stationed in
Italy])
>Would you have let them pass if they
> asked or was the exposure and length of the climb pressing you to keep
> moving in order to finish safely?
Time was not a factor as we were well onto the upper pitches early in
the day.
> I can think of several similar instances including Exum guides on
> Baxters Pinnacle in the Tetons all summer, or any given day on the
> convergence point of routes on the first flatiron in Boulder where
> people commonly just pass. It's not necessarily a french thing, but
> more of a human nature thing. Some people handle passing better than
> others. Some people also handle being passed better than others.
>
> > Any French climbers care to respond?
> > Anyone have similar experiences?
> > Is this normal French climbing 'etiquette'?
>
> This has to be a troll to stir up some french bashing...
I think they are referred to as Gnomes in Europe...
My mom is a French citizen of 85 years. I ran this post by her and she
said, "Oh yes good idea, and you must let me read the responses."
>If you are climbing 5.10 Grade IV then you certainly have had to deal
with
> passing and being passed with some regularity in your climbing career
> and are familiar with differing attitudes of climbers when passing.
Having been climbing now for 25 years I've seen a lot. When it is
safe and a team is expeditious I have always enjoyed letting someone
pass. I always learn something. New techniques, new recipes, make new
friends, bargain for food, see the latest in new gear and fashions
etc...
> (or else your a freekish child prodigy that has climbed for a couple
> months and is knocking out 5.10 valley routes).
See above.
> A good flip side conversation could be had here. In general, it seems
> like people hate to be passed. Whether that's because of pride or
> general safety isn't always clear. But does someone own the route and
> have the right to dictate how every party behind them moves? If
> everyone agrees to passing, everything is easy, but what if someone
> doesn't let a party pass?
This has happened and fortunately we were able to improvise an aid
variation to get around anyways as time was a factor that day, as it
happened we got down well into our headlight battery life. The party
we passed, via an aid variation, we found out later, had to bivy at
the top.
> If you've just done a 4 hour approach but someone slower beats you by 10
> minutes do you turn around and go home
> if there isn't another route worth doing at the area? How about if
> you've traveled extensively to do an area classic and a slow party is
> clogging the route- is it ok to pass even if the lead party is
> objecting?
>
> Cheers,
> Frank
I wouldn't as the objection itself and the emotions involved should
you pass anyway over their objections could create an unsafe
situation. Find a variation to pass, try bribing them with that No. 5
cam you have never used, offer them your daughter, tell them you will
lead the 10c off-width crux for them, or bite the bullet and wait
(often mid-pitches offer more opportunity for a variation to pass, or
bail on the day vowing to start earlier next time.
To infinity and beyond, peace.
Clive C.
Frank Stock
> Frank Stock trolled:
> >
> > But does someone own the route and
> > have the right to dictate how every party behind them moves?
>
> And I bit.
I was at least hoping for hi or kastrup. I don't throw one out that
often you know
> No one but Stu owns routes these days. It's called etiquette
> Frank, as you know well, and it applies equally to golf,
> climbing passes and frenchmen. Sometimes it isn't about
> safety or any of that other shit. Sometimes the passed party
> simply doesn't want to sit idle for an hour to satisfy the
> speed urges of an asshole guide or an asshole foursome on
> the course. Etiquette dictates that the passed party
> controls the pass.
Etiquette also dictates what fork I'm supposed to use, but sometimes I
use em from the inside out because I forget (chopsticks are the shit).
As for golf and frenchmen, I don't know much about either, except
perhaps the french don't golf well, probably because they are
impatient.
I've been passed when I didn't want to be but should have been. I've
passed those that didn't want to be when I thought it appropriate
(seldom). I've also had nice conversations and lived through the pass
from both sides. It's not always a guide or Hans Florine, usually
just I'm slow and they aren't or vise versa.
As with everything, it's never cut and dry. What do you do when you
catch a party that is taking two hours per pitch on in the middle of a
climb, when you had no idea they were there until you couldn't bail?
I don't know that I'm going to risk crawling behind them if it means
I'll be a lightning rod on a peak I should have been off of three
hours ago. If they don't let me pass, and I can see how to do it
without endangering them, I may feel inclined.
Likewise, I may not want to wait to let someone go by me if I'm over
my head and counting daylight hours. However, if someone is fast
enough to have caught me, then I know I probably should let them
through. In instance when this happens, the delay usually isn't hours
but minutes.
>
<cut of several valid points that I'm not going to discuss but others
will>
> Nope. It is not OK to pass when the party above says no.
> There are of course exceptions.
Not in this sport. Three bomber pieces equalized always, a piece
right off the belay, no cams under flakes...cut and dry stuff as
always.
Cheers,
Frank
> DMT
Dingus Milktoast
>
> I was at least hoping for hi or kastrup. I don't throw one out that
> often you know
It's cool. At least I like you and Kastrup. And kastrup
doesn't often fall victim to trolls. He's cagey that way. As
a fish, he'd be one of those weird ones from the deep sea
with eyes on the end of sticks, razor teeth and glowing
lights around his asshole. How do you catch such a thing?
Me? Generally oblivious. A flounder or a big, fat, dumb
large mouth bass. Quite easy if you remember to use the
right bait. Anything that even smells of NPS or Federal
anything gets my nose twitching. The thought of being passed
elicits the same response.
> I've been passed when I didn't want to be but should have been. I've
> passed those that didn't want to be when I thought it appropriate
> (seldom). I've also had nice conversations and lived through the pass
> from both sides. It's not always a guide or Hans Florine, usually
> just I'm slow and they aren't or vise versa.
I've only rarely been passed. I've made it my affair to
learn to move fast enough to avoid such insult. But I can
dig what yer saying Frank.
> What do you do when you
> catch a party that is taking two hours per pitch on in the middle of a
> climb, when you had no idea they were there until you couldn't bail?
Me? Lie, cheat and/or steal my way past them. Part of the
Great Game and all that. I've been the asshole in such
situations more than I've been the holie, I assure you. But
it doesn't make it right.
> I don't know that I'm going to risk crawling behind them if it means
> I'll be a lightning rod on a peak I should have been off of three
> hours ago.
As I said, for course there are exceptions. You have
accidentally stumbled upon one of them. Well done old son.
> If they don't let me pass, and I can see how to do it
> without endangering them, I may feel inclined.
Been there, done that, logged the asshole entry in my
nonexistent diary.
> Likewise, I may not want to wait to let someone go by me if I'm over
> my head and counting daylight hours. However, if someone is fast
> enough to have caught me, then I know I probably should let them
> through. In instance when this happens, the delay usually isn't hours
> but minutes.
I suspect you don't often get passed either do you Frank?
DMT
David Kastrup
Frank> Dingus Milktoast <crha...@midtown.net> wrote in message
Frank> news:<3B82819B...@midtown.net>...
>> Frank Stock trolled:
>> >
>> > But does someone own the route and > have the right to
>> dictate how every party behind them moves?
>>
>> And I bit.
Frank> I was at least hoping for hi or kastrup. I don't throw one
Frank> out that often you know
Frank, Frank, Frank, I am embarrassed for you. You spelled my name
correctly. I am quite sure that the rec.climbing charta would
prohibit this.
Jehova, y'know.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
Email: David....@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de
Jeremy The Sumo Climber
> Frank Stock wrote:
> >
> > I was at least hoping for hi or kastrup. I don't throw one out that
> > often you know
>
> It's cool. At least I like you and Kastrup. And kastrup
> doesn't often fall victim to trolls. He's cagey that way. As
> a fish, he'd be one of those weird ones from the deep sea
> with eyes on the end of sticks, razor teeth and glowing
> lights around his asshole. How do you catch such a thing?
David, in case yer wondering, I think this was a compliment.
- Sumo
David Kastrup
Dingus> Frank Stock wrote:
>> I was at least hoping for hi or kastrup. I don't throw one
>> out that often you know
Dingus> It's cool. At least I like you and Kastrup. And kastrup
Dingus> doesn't often fall victim to trolls. He's cagey that
Dingus> way. As a fish, he'd be one of those weird ones from the
Dingus> deep sea with eyes on the end of sticks, razor teeth and
Dingus> glowing lights around his asshole.
Well, at first I wanted to protest the supposed location of those
lights, but then remembered that I am vegetarian. Let the small fry
wipe my ass, for all I care.
Dingus> How do you catch such a thing?
No point in doing so. Once they are out of their depth, they
explode.
Dingus> Me? Generally oblivious. A flounder or a big, fat,
Dingus> dumb large mouth bass.
Myself I am a tenor. One of those poor guys able to get high enough
for the duration of a rehearsal or concert if it is not too early in
the morning to be listed in the ranks of tenors. Even though I go
deeper than most of the basses.
Dingus> Me? Lie, cheat and/or steal my way past them. Part of the
Dingus> Great Game and all that. I've been the asshole in such
Dingus> situations more than I've been the holie, I assure
Dingus> you.
So where has your halo (boy did I have to grope for that word, wanting
to use gloriole (no h) instead) been mounted?
David Kastrup
Jeremy> "Dingus Milktoast" <crha...@midtown.net> wrote in message
Jeremy> news:3B82E1FB...@midtown.net...
>> Frank Stock wrote:
>> >
>> > I was at least hoping for hi or kastrup. I don't throw one
>> out that > often you know
>>
>> It's cool. At least I like you and Kastrup. And kastrup doesn't
>> often fall victim to trolls. He's cagey that way. As a fish,
>> he'd be one of those weird ones from the deep sea with eyes on
>> the end of sticks, razor teeth and glowing lights around his
>> asshole. How do you catch such a thing?
Jeremy> David, in case yer wondering, I think this was a
Jeremy> compliment.
I took it as such. Very fitting. When I *do* happen to get caught,
people tend to stare in unbelief, then drop the matter. Where would
be the point in catching a thing like that?
Eugene Miya
Sure, an American soloist on N F Fairview.
>> Is this normal French climbing 'etiquette'?
I would not say merely French.
Under some circumstances the Germans, the Italians, and even the
Americans will do it. Once at a meeting some naive SAR type asked
a group of people if they had ever done real forced bivvies.
When the pointer came to me, I think that I said that I lost count at 9.
When asked if I would do anything different, I thought of one of the
more minor epics (on ice at the top of the Mendel C.) my thought was
yeah: run the party ahead of us over (in way over their heads on ice
[yet they had thought of doing the Grand Sentinel which is a V]).
The English tend to be slightly more willing to queue (short of freezing).
And you'd better check with the Spanish climbers as well.
On the other hand, there are some pretty cute French climbers.....
Cute European women climbers and skiers as a whole (more so than the US).
Mad Dog
>Frank Stock wrote:
>It's cool. At least I like you and Kastrup.
Give Katchup a wet kiss for me, Dingus. Better you than me.
>And kastrup doesn't often fall victim to trolls.
Bullshit. You're not paying close enough attention.
>As a fish, he'd be one of those weird ones from the deep sea
>with eyes on the end of sticks, razor teeth and glowing
>lights around his asshole.
OK, good weed I take it?
>I've only rarely been passed. I've made it my affair to
>learn to move fast enough to avoid such insult.
It's not always an insult. If I'm leading a newbie or two on their first
multipitch, I'd rather infuse them with safety rather than speed. I'd want them
to come away with positive feelings rather than feeling rushed and to let them
to know when to let folks pass. However, the only time I've been passed in the
last decade was because my partner insisted on it. We then sat for 75 mnutes
while the passing party caught their breath. You figgre it out.
>> What do you do when you
>> catch a party that is taking two hours per pitch on in the middle of a
>> climb, when you had no idea they were there until you couldn't bail?
>Me? Lie, cheat and/or steal my way past them. Part of the
>Great Game and all that. I've been the asshole in such
>situations more than I've been the holie, I assure you. But
>it doesn't make it right.
The thing is, many people don't really notice. They may be embarrassed that you
want to pass, but they are often actually relieved, having been thinking: "Look
how fast those motherfuckers are catching us!"
>> If they don't let me pass, and I can see how to do it
>> without endangering them, I may feel inclined.
>Been there, done that, logged the asshole entry in my
>nonexistent diary.
A couple of years ago, I surprised my partner by slipstreaming a couple of dudes
on a Flatirons classic. One of them muttered something about not having much
trad experience, I told them I'd go and they didn't protest. Since I lead that
pitch in about 5 minutes with 2 pieces and a tree for the anchor, they didn't
have to wait long. We never saw them after that, so I doubt that they were
bummed out in the least. In fact, I think they would rather not have witnii
below.
Lord Slime
> The basic rule for Rockclimbing in this country is that the team already on the
> rock has the final say. If a party does not want you to pass, then please
> respect their wishes.
Rules are made to be broken, given the right circumstances. As always,
It Depends (tm).
> As I recall?
> About 15 years ago...
> One of the lower climbers a young women, heard the call of rock and looked up.
> She shielded her face with her hand, the rock hit her hand and severed three
> fingers?, then struck her head. ...
Hmmm.. not how I recall it. I recall the higher party was WAY higher
and did not have communication with the injured party. But I'll give you
the benefit of the doubt, since I don't have the energy to sift through my
old Climbing mags.
> If someone asks you to wait - then please wait.
Maybe. Maybe not.
So before all you newbies chime in, this has been discussed ad infinitum.
> Peace and Love
Bile and vitriol
- Lord Slime
Batten
>
>Clive C. Burro <clive...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:33204f9b.01081...@posting.google.com...
>>> Anyone have similar experiences?
>
>Sure, an American soloist on N F Fairview.
>
>>> Is this normal French climbing 'etiquette'?
>
>I would not say merely French.
>
I don't know how long you have been using the internet, but maybe
you should lurk a bit before you start posting.
Damm Newbies
Peace and Live
Batten
Eugene Miya
>I don't know how long you have been using the internet, but maybe
>you should lurk a bit before you start posting.
Oh since 1973.
Posting? Try running it.
>Damm Newbies
;^)
>Peace and Live
Resistance is futile.
Steven Cherry
<David....@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:
>So where has your halo (boy did I have to grope for that word, wanting
>to use gloriole (no h) instead) been mounted?
Geez, if you're going to be that obsessive (and make such a public
demonstration of it at that), maybe you could use the modern word
"charter" instead of an archaic form that departed the language around
the time of Shakespeare.
Linguistically yours,
-steven-
--
<ste...@panix.com>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
To find out your personality, make a cup of coffee and write words
that come to your mind. If you happen to write words like "car,"
"hose," and "loser," you probably should NOT be a professional race
car driver, but maybe consider working in the pit crew. OK?
-- Curry the race car driver, www.rubberburner.com
Frank Stock
Dawn, you should consider adding this to the faq under how to troll.
It's just beautiful.
Cheers,
Frank
Rob Williams
[snip]
>One of those poor guys able to get high enough
> for the duration of a rehearsal or concert if it is not too early in
> the morning to be listed in the ranks of tenors.
Of this I am all too confident in your abilities. Wake and Bake?
Rob
Eugene Miya
Greg Daughtry
Batten, is this one a keeper?
'Greg
Port Townsend, WA
Batten
biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your
culture will adapt to serve us. Resistance is futile. We are the Borg.
Borg Queen: Are you familiar with physical forms of pleasure?
Data: If... you're referring to sexuality, I'm fully functional. Programmed in
multiple techniques.
Borg Queen: How long has it been since you've used them?
Data: 8 years, 7 months, 16 days, 4 minutes 22...
Borg Queen: Far too long.
Picard: They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds,
and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn
HERE. This far NO farther. And I will make them pay for what they've done.
Borg Queen: I am the Beginning, the End. The one who is many.
Lily Sloane: Borg? Sounds Swedish.
[Quoting "Moby Dick."]
Picard: And he piled upon the whale's white hump, the sum of all the rage and
hate felt by his whole race. If his chest had been a cannon,
he would have shot his heart upon it.
Borg Queen: Small words from a small being, trying to attack what it doesn't
understand.
Picard: You want to destroy the ship and run away, you coward.
Worf: If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand.
Eugene Miya
>In article <3b83...@news.ucsc.edu>, eug...@cse.ucsc.edu says...
>>
>The Borg: Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your
>biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your
>culture will adapt to serve us. Resistance is futile. We are the Borg.
Could be Daleks.
Numerous characters have used the line. But in this context STNG has had
"scenes" where "climbing" was relevant.
>Borg Queen:
Most unfortunate that the thread boiled down merely to insects.
Bugs. A bug hunt.
>Picard: They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds,
>Borg Queen: Small words from a small being, trying to attack what it doesn't
>understand.
--Q
>Picard: You want to destroy the ship and run away, you coward.
>Worf: If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand.
Nuke the site from orbit.