How many t-nuts per 4x8?

[mun...@hotmail.com]

First off, thanks to everyone who helped me out in the last thread
about building your own wall. I found some very useful info! I have
now finalized the design of my wall, after chopping off a big chunk to
save some dough. The only thing I am still unsure of is how many t-nut
holes to drill per 4x8? I have read a few different numbers: the
highest I have seen is 250/sheet which comes out to about a 4" grid, If
you do an 8" grid and then fill in the empty gaps, you come up with
127/sheet, and a plain 8" grid yeilds 72/sheet. I am thinking about
taking the middle route, but I wanted a second opinion. What do you
think. I'm not going the 250/sheet route because it is way too
expensive (like $30/sheet in just t-nuts). Should I go 72 or 127, or
should I just plan on 100/sheet? Thanks!

Also, where is the cheapest place for t-nuts? I can't find them for
less than 12cents each; I thought I had heard that someone found them
for 9cents each.

Thanks again for the help!!

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

[Geoff Jennings]

Another thing to consider, if cost and not space is your limiting factor, is
designing your wall such that expanding it later won't be tough. Like leave
space where the wall ends where you can easily attach more "wall"

Geoff

[Brad Baker]

In article <90j0j1$5c5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

mun...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Should I go 72 or 127, or
> should I just plan on 100/sheet? Thanks!

Put in as many as you can afford (in other words, suck it up and go for
the higher number). T-nut density greatly affects your route-setting
options. A couple of my early panels are lame due to their lack of t-
nuts. Screw-on holds have helped a bit, but I still regret putting so
few t-nuts in some of my panels.

Brad Baker

> Also, where is the cheapest place for t-nuts? I can't find them for
> less than 12cents each; I thought I had heard that someone found them
> for 9cents each.

The cheapest place I've found is a local (Colo Spgs, CO) hardware store
that sells good quality t-nuts in boxes of 50. Every once in a while I
go by and clean them out. Another hardware store here has t-nuts for a
decent price, but they totally suck (very poor quality control. bolts
don't work with threads, etc). I don't know about online sources.

----------
Brad Baker
----------

[mun...@my-deja.com]

Thanks, I already have! Its a very simple design that absolutely
leaves expansion space. I wouldn't say cost is so much a limiting
factor as it is a consideration. I can't imagine ever needing 250 t-
nut holes on one sheet. I am trying to find a good balance.

[madd...@my-deja.com]

munckee wrote:

>The only thing I am still unsure of is how many t-nut
>holes to drill per 4x8?

I'd say 72 is a minimum. 127 is certainly better and is a reasonable
compromise. I have an area with 250 per sheet and can tell you that
not only is it expensive, it's a lot of work drilling all those holes
and pounding all those t-nuts.

I used a rectangular grid on the 250/sheet area but elsewhere, I use a
diamond. Not a big difference but something to consider. another
thing - once you get to 250, you have to be really careful in laying
out your studs and holes to keep from having the backs covered by the
studs.

[Sam Shank]

> highest I have seen is 250/sheet which comes out to about a 4" grid, If
> you do an 8" grid and then fill in the empty gaps, you come up with
> 127/sheet, and a plain 8" grid yeilds 72/sheet. I am thinking about

Yes, drilling all those holes is a pain. You can do 2-3 pannels at a time,
though. I do a random pattern. Just mark where your studs will be.

I used about 125 or so per sheet. Fewer at the bottom where your feet are,
and more towards the middle and top. If the bottom were covered like the
top, then I'd have about 175 per sheet.

> Also, where is the cheapest place for t-nuts? I can't find them for
> less than 12cents each; I thought I had heard that someone found them
> for 9cents each.

http://www.stafast.com/products/tnuts.html

I got the 6 tine. $55 for 700 shipped to your door. That comes to less
than 8 cents each.

You have to call to order. Get the 3/8" 16tpi (that's coarse threads).

Good luck, Sam

--
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Remove obvious from header to reply.

[Tom Stybr]

madd...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> munckee wrote:
>
> >The only thing I am still unsure of is how many t-nut
> >holes to drill per 4x8?
>

> I used a rectangular grid on the 250/sheet area but elsewhere, I use a

> diamond. Not a big difference but something to consider. another
> thing - once you get to 250, you have to be really careful in laying
> out your studs and holes to keep from having the backs covered by the
> studs.
>

I used a diamond pattern as well with 120 T-nuts per sheet - two 6 X 12
inch grids offset and overlayed. Luckily, I can access the backs without
too much trouble to add holes in the middle of diamonds but haven't had
to as yet. I guess filling in the middle of the diamonds would result in
a fine square grid with 220 - 240 holes. I doubt I'll ever feel the need
for that many.

Consider where the studs will be no matter how many holes you end up
with. Base diameter of 3/8" T-nuts are 1 inch so keep the hole
centerlines 1-1/4" away from stud centerlines.

BTW, I found brad point drill bits superior to wood or spade bits.
Remember to drill 7/16" holes for 3/8" T-nuts.

Tom Stybr

[Irishman]

<mun...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Also, where is the cheapest place for t-nuts? I can't find them for
> less than 12cents each; I thought I had heard that someone found them
> for 9cents each.
>

Like I told ya before, McMaster Carr. They have them for $6.40 per 100.
Don't even think about 9 cents each.

Irishman

[Mike Yukish]

Tom Stybr wrote:

> Consider where the studs will be no matter how many holes you end up
> with. Base diameter of 3/8" T-nuts are 1 inch so keep the hole
> centerlines 1-1/4" away from stud centerlines.

One thing I found helpful when building my wall, in order to avoid
"spinners" with your t-nuts, is to squirt some glue on the backs of my holds
and then dip them in sand. If the glue blobs up, so much the better. The
hold now aggressively grips the plywood when I tighten the nut. This lets me
not have to tighten the holds as much as would be necessary otherwise.

[mun...@my-deja.com]

Are you sure those are the right size? when I looked up 3/8 16x7/16"
they came up as $12/100. What size are you looking at?

[Rob Williams]

madd...@my-deja.com wrote:

> . . . another thing - once you get to 250, you have to be really

> careful in laying
> out your studs and holes to keep from having the backs covered by the
> studs.
>

A new side of the Dog to which i was ignorant. Do you keep your "panels"
in the closet or garage? I wanna party with you, Stud! Not!

Rob, not a stud

[Irishman]

<mun...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:90jp37$ru8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> Are you sure those are the right size? when I looked up 3/8 16x7/16"
> they came up as $12/100. What size are you looking at?

Oops, my bad. I was looking at the 1/4-20.

Irishman (How embarrassing)

[WayneB4737]

I'd err on the higher side, it's usually tough to add more later. Some are
gonna stirp out, some are gonna spin with time. Remeber to try to avoid the
framing - bolts over frame members are usually useless, so be care just laying
out a grid. What I've done in the past is cut the plywood, makt the frame
members, then drill the holes giving the framing a wide berth.
Good climbing,

Wayne Busch
Gainesville, Florida
http://members.aol.com/wayneb4737 -- Flatliners Website
-- Climbing in the Southeast USA --

[madd...@my-deja.com]

Tom Stybr wrote:

> BTW, I found brad point drill bits superior to wood or spade bits.
> Remember to drill 7/16" holes for 3/8" T-nuts.

I use an auger bit because it drills faster and ejects the wood chips
better than other bits. If you put a dummy sheet under the bottom
plywood sheet, all holes will be clean, front and back.

Mad 'drillmaster' Dog

[mami...@cris.com]

madd...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Tom Stybr wrote:
>
> > BTW, I found brad point drill bits superior to wood or spade bits.
> > Remember to drill 7/16" holes for 3/8" T-nuts.
>
> I use an auger bit because it drills faster and ejects the wood chips
> better than other bits. If you put a dummy sheet under the bottom
> plywood sheet, all holes will be clean, front and back.
>

The auger bits definitely help when there a lot of holes to drill. They
go through quickly and you can stack 5 or 6 sheets because of there
length.

Marty "drill master...and damn sore" Miller

[Woody]

Call and ask about bulk pricing , when you order several hundred at a Time
they drop the price significantly. I got mine for a little over 6 cents
apeice from McMaster.

Woody

--
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Irishman <lucky_i...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
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[Tom Stybr]

madd...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Tom Stybr wrote:
>
> > BTW, I found brad point drill bits superior to wood or spade bits.
> > Remember to drill 7/16" holes for 3/8" T-nuts.
>
> I use an auger bit because it drills faster and ejects the wood chips
> better than other bits. If you put a dummy sheet under the bottom
> plywood sheet, all holes will be clean, front and back.
>

This is what I mean by brad point:

http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/accessory_category_detail.asp?categoryID=223

Easy to center and the two lead edges make it easy to see if the bit is
square to the sheet at the start. It'll go through several sheets at
once as well. I haven't used an auger bit but as it screws itself into
the wood at the start, doesn't that sometime lead to splintering? I've
seen a #8 wood screw create a two inch splinter when sunk with no pilot
hole.

Plywood can be fickle,
Tom Stybr

[madd...@my-deja.com]

Tom Stybr wrote:

>I haven't used an auger bit but as it screws itself into
>the wood at the start, doesn't that sometime lead to splintering?

Even a marginally sharp auger bit will cut a clean entry hole because
the the perimeter edge of the bit has a low attack angle. The problem
I've had with any type of bit has to do with the exit side of the drill
hole. Clamping the sheets tight together and putting dummy wood below
the bottom sheet will take care of this.

Don't get me wrong - brad point bits are excellent, especially for
hardwood or where precise location of the hole is critical. The
advantage of the auger bit for t-nut holes in plywood is throughput
when you have a bunch of sheets being drilled simultaneously.

Mad 'he said wood' Dog