Anyone built their own wall?
mun...@hotmail.com
january. Does anyone have any advice? Where is the best place to get
wood? How much wood? Should I use 1/2" or 3/4"? What is the best
place to get holds? Does anyone sell them in bulk or give a buld
discount? Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Tenpins
studs centered on 16". My dad, who owns the house, wasnt too cooperative in
answering when I asked about anchoring into the basement walls....so I built
a box inside the room, so in a sense my wall is a freestanding cubewedged
inside the existing room. I've read on this group from other people who used
2x4's. I went for 2x6s because I didnt want *any* movement when I was on
this thing and that kind of lumber seemed to gaurantee me that; because some
people say 2x4s will move, others swear it doesnt, so figure out if thats
important to you - 2x4s are cheaper too.
I almost made a mistake in building the wall in that when finished would
have been really really monotonous and boring. So I corected that and made
it as interesting as I could(did I mention the ceiling in this room is only
7 foot?) I built a roof section, 50 inches wide and 10 feet across the
ceiling, and dihedraled the corners and put in overhangs - producing a
possible 60 feet of continuous traversing.
Now I'll tell you the one mistake I did make. I blew the budget when I
redesigned the wall structure to make it more "fun". So for the first 2
years, amidst college tuition, books, rent, bills and car
payments(girlfriend sucked away all my money too) I only had 35 holds on my
beautiful possible 60 feet of continuous traversing. Sniff.
When you get your wall built, you will want to climb on it *now* - make sure
you leave money for alot of holds.
have fun building it. Remember God only really planned for us to have SEVEN
fingers, so you can lose two to the saw and still be ahead by 1. Or so my
pappy used to say.
Gleshna
>january. Does anyone have any advice?
Sure. Get some videos, books, etc. on wall building.
Where is the best place to get
>wood?
Got mine at Home Depot USA.
How much wood? Should I use 1/2" or 3/4"?
3/4"
What is the best
>place to get holds?
As many dependable places as possible. Make sure that you get order
information and put them on your Christmas list. Holds are a perfect gift item
for those that wish to buy you gifts.
Does anyone sell them in bulk or give a buld
>discount? Any advice would be
Yes, and they have or had holds of the month club(s). Sorry, I don't have the
details.
I would suggest web searches for brandnames and dejavunews searches for past
discussion on this ng.
REd
Chris Kantarjiev
>
> I am planning on building my own wall, probably about the 1st week of
> january.
See http://www.putzl.com/~klew/wall.shtml among others.
--
Don't just sit there reading news: get active!
http://www.earthjustice.org/join/ http://www.yosemitevalley.org
Remove xxx. to reply ...
Dawn Alguard
> I am planning on building my own wall, probably about the 1st week of
http://www.tradgirl.com/rc/faq7.htm
Dawn
Woody
wall building if you are limited on space.
Woody
--
Woody Software, Shentona R/C Speedway
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/ Woody Software website.
http://shentona.bizland.com Shentona R/C Speedway.
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/samples.htm The Emax Sampler Sound Archive.
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/devilstower/climbing.htm Woody's Climbing
Website
<mun...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:900sp2$4sg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I am planning on building my own wall, probably about the 1st week of
Dave Condit
three sections with over 500 square feet of climbing surface. It includes
three crack systems including one that adjusts from finger tips to off-width.
I started the project six months ago and have been working off & on since.
For lumber, I found that 2X6 supports were best with 3/4 plywood. While mine
is attached to interior walls (I have a two-story, three car garage) with
expansion bolts, I also found it necessary to engineer it in such a way that
the one wall not attached is supported by the others. The roof system also
helps strengthen the free-standing wall.
For surface coating, I experimented extensively and found a good combination.
I start by painting the wood with Kilz primer. After that dries, I then coat
with Behr One Part Epoxy Garage Floor paint with a pumus additive. After this
dries, I add a second coat of Epoxy paint without the pumus. The second coat
seals the pumos extra well and prevents it from coming off with use. I
consulted with a chemical engineer at Behr about the use of the paint since it
suggests not to use mutiple coats (this has to do with tire wear & not surface
integrity) and not to use on vertical surfaces (this has to do with the drying
process...I dry all pieces while they are horizontal).
After the paint is applied, I drilled holes (one every eight inches to line up
with mu 16 inch stud spacing). For T-nuts, i recommend the four or six prong
varieties. Don't wast money by buying them from a climbing shop or hardware
store. Look in the yellow pages for a bolt of fasterner supplier and buy in
bulk.
To attach the plywood, I found that 2 1/2 inch decking screws were best. Be
sure to attach the panels in auch a way that the can be easily removed if you
have a problem (or move). I made all my attachments in the whole system with
screw and bolts (no nails).
For holds, I found several options. For starters, you might want to order one
of those multi-hold sets. However, they seem to rip you off by including a lot
of jibs. There is a company in Canada that makes & sells holds way cheap
(especially with the exchange rates). They sell bulk small holds for $1 each
(the best deal I've ever found). They are on the web at
http://www.grholds.com/. Another cheap place is Cheap Holds
(http://www.cheapholds.tripod.com/). However, I've gotten my best deals from
right here on rec.climbing. Just last week, i bought 45 holds (mostly large &
medium) for about $1.25 each. Just keep your eyes open.
Finally, for padding there are many options. I managed to buy a used crash pad
(one of those huge ones that is 5x7) from a local climbing gym. It looks brand
new and retails for over $300. Once again, just look around a little.
Well, that was a little long-winded, but I hope it helps. I'll try to post
pictures and more details on a web page soon. If you'd like more information
(such as how to make good cracks), just e-mail.
Dave
Keith Jewell
highest grade 3/4" plywood you can find. Put in way more T-nuts than
you think you'll need. They're cheap and easy to install while
constructing, but are a pain in the butt after the wall is put up.
There are quite a few web sites with info. Do a search on "indoor" or
"home climbing wall". Or you could see if Mad Dog sees this. He has
the, self-professed, "best woodie in three states," or so I'm told.
K, only an average woodie
Michael Creel
> I am planning on building my own wall, probably about the 1st week of
> january. Does anyone have any advice? ...
Yes - watch out how you lift the damn thing up off the floor. I built one
last April, and my back is still recovering. It is fun to boulder on
though. Other things:
1) stiffer is better (any comment, maddog?) Use 3/4"
2) use 5/16" t-nuts - they are "more compatible" with holds that take
special bolts
3) I recommend an adjustable wall, as seen a few pages down on
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/9640/database.html
It doesn't look that cool, but it works well.
mun...@my-deja.com
have already drawn up a rather interesting design which utilizes the
space to the fullest extent possible (and provides a nice little loft
for my bed). The wall will also be freestanding and will have to be
built in the room piece by peice so that it all fits through the door.
mun...@my-deja.com
building a rather large wall that includes a 10ft. vertical section, a
10* overhang, a steeper overhang leading to a vertical, and all of it
is connected by the roof. I intend to use 2x4's and 1/2" plywood on
the vertical sections and 2x6's and 3/4" plywood on anything
overhanging. It should provide over 200sq ft. of climbing space not
including the roof sections. I will probably look up a machine shop to
get the tnuts and the bolts. I plan to use either wood screws or big
bolts to hold it together (or some of each). I am going to use 4x4"
pylons for main support beams, spaced either every 12" or every 16". I
don't have a lot of experience with the framing aspect of the project,
but I have ordered both Thomas' book and Leavitt's book on building
home walls. Any other advice would be apprectiated. Thanks for all
the help you've already given!
Danny Nathan
WayneB4737
care laying out the hole pattern for your T-nuts. It's easy to put holes over a
frame member. When this happens, you can't screw in the bolt, and you've wasted
a T-nut. Be inventive with the construction, small gaps between sheets of
plywood can make finger cracks, letting an edge overlap makes a ledge to toe up
on. I recommend against texturing the surface of it, it scrapes skin when you
come off a hold. We painted the last one with regular interior house paint, no
problems. Small plywood scraps can be shaped and screwed on to use until you
eventually acquire enough holds. They work very well. Have fun. Friends, beer,
and pizza seems to help with the construction.
Good climbing,
Wayne Busch
Gainesville, Florida
http://members.aol.com/wayneb4737 -- Flatliners Website
-- Climbing in the Southeast USA --
Irishman
Check out http://www.mcmaster.com
Tom Stybr
Stay away from 1/2" plywood. It just doesn't have the bearing strength
or bending stiffness. 2X4's might work, 2X6's will work. That said, I've
attached 3/4" plywood to the underside of 2X4 roof trusses on 24"
centers with no problem. Key thing here is that it was a truss and not
just a 2X4 beam. When in doubt, think robust. I don't quite understand
what you're using the 4X4's for if you're using 2X4's on vertical
sections. I've never come across a need for a 4X4 in any wall building.
Look up "Fasteners" in the Yellow Pages, not "Machine Shops".
Tom Stybr
Dave Hill
These guys rule. If you place an order in the A.M., it will typically be on
your desk the next afternoon. Truly amazing.
Dave.
"Irishman" <lucky_I...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3nbV5.160$W07....@nnrp1.sbc.net...
Woody
work, Non taxable org too, got them for less than 6 cents each, cheapest
i've found yet.
And they do deliver next day drop ship.
Woody
--
Woody Software, Shentona R/C Speedway
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/ Woody Software website.
http://shentona.bizland.com Shentona R/C Speedway.
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/samples.htm The Emax Sampler Sound Archive.
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/devilstower/climbing.htm Woody's Climbing
Website
Dave Hill <dfh...@engr.psu.edu> wrote in message
news:903qkf$q...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu...
Ben Boykin
>three crack systems including one that adjusts from finger tips to off-width.
>
...how did you anchor those? Are they between panels, anchored to studs, what?
Finish all of your sentences with, "in accordance with the prophecy."
<a href="members.fortunecity.com/gnorga">An infantile Vedauwoo Guide</a><p><a
href="http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/gorge/4346">Southeast Wyoming Climbing
Pages</a>
Dave Condit
>what?
>Finish all of your sentences with, "in accordance with the prophecy."
wtf?
Dave
Dave Condit
>the vertical sections
I experimented with 1/2 inch plywood and found it unsatisfactory. Remember,
the plywood actually helps hold the whole thing together and adds a great deal
of integrity to the system.
>I will probably look up a machine shop to
>get the tnuts and the bolts.
Look in the yellow pages under "Bolts" or "Fasteners".
>I am going to use 4x4"
>pylons for main support beams, spaced either every 12" or every 16".
This sounds like over kill. 2 x 6 beams should be sufficient. Once again, the
whole thing will be extremely rigid once you attach the 3/4" plywood.
>I have ordered both Thomas' book and Leavitt's book on building
>home walls.
These are both a complete waste of money. Both books talk a lot about foggy
ideas but don't supply much detail. The info you've received so far from this
newsgroup is ten times greater than both books combined. I bought both books
but found not one useful piece of information.
Dave
Mike Yukish
> >Finish all of your sentences with, "in accordance with the prophecy."
> wtf?
I agree. In accordance with the prophecy, it sounds better to *begin* each
sentence with "in accordance with the prophecy".
mun...@hotmail.com
know a whole lot about framing a wooden structure of this sort. My
understanding is that I should place vertical studs every 12 or 16". I
had intended to use 2x4's for any vertical wall and 2x6's for anything
overhanging. How do I attach the vertical studs to one another? Do I
need a piece of 2x4 or 2x6 connected horizontally between each one or
is the plywood sheeting sufficient to hold them together. Do I simply
overlap each piece of plywood by 3/4" on each 2x4/2x6? I have the wall
designed, but I don't know enough about the framing to figure out how
to hold the whole thing together. Can anyone help me out??
Gleshna
One source is to find the local convention hall and then track down who
supplies the bolts for big displays, etc.
REd
Mike Yukish
mun...@hotmail.com wrote:
I read through your other posts, and it is still not clear exactly what you
are doing. From a previous post...
> building a rather large wall that includes a 10ft. vertical section, a
> 10* overhang, a steeper overhang leading to a vertical, and all of it
> is connected by the roof.
>
Let me see if I understand this, you have (going left to right or right to
left) a vertical section, a 10 degree overhanging section, and a steeper
overhang that that goes vertical at X feet above the deck? All of which has
a roof overtop of everything? The top of the roof forms your loft? Sounds
cool. How wide is each section? 4 feet? 8 feet? How big is the loft?
Can you carry 10 foot long boards into your room? 4 x 8 sheets of plywood?
Can you carry a fully built up section in?
I have a 10 foot high by 8 foot wide wall in my garage. two and a half
sheets of 3/4" plywood are laid on four 2 x 4's with a 2x4 at the top and
bottom. Lots of deck screws. to hold it together. Freestanding at the
bottom, attaches to the wall at only the top corners, overhangs 10 deg to
40 deg (adjuastable). No problem with sturdiness.
The only tricky part will be the pitch where you change angles midstream of
the way up. Go up in your rafters, look at how your builders framed the
trusses of the roof. think of taking the truss and laying edgeways, and you
have a frame for your wall.
You can also buy ready made stuff for attaching the 2x4's to the roof. Go
to Home Depot or similar, look around.
If I were you, I would build the loft first, maybe with the 4x4's you
mentioned earlier. Make it stand-alone, make it sturdy. Then start thinking
climbing wall as an add-on to the loft.
Sam Shank
>
Also try stafast.com
Last time I ordered, $55 for 700 t-nuts shipped to your door.
They are stout and have 6 tines to dig into your ply.
ONON
--
-----
Remove obvious from header to reply.
mun...@my-deja.com
the room on the opposite wall, I have a 10* overhang, then a
narrow vertical section, then the overhanging apparatus. The wall
is 8 feet tall all the way around the room. Its designed kinda like a
cave built on 3 sides of the room (with a short section missing for
the doorway). The bed will be lofted on top of the overhang (which
is about 4 feet off the ground.
I mainly need help with how to connect the wood because I don't
have a lot of experience with the framing aspect. I have decided to
go with all 3/4 in plywood and no 4x4's. My question is, do I
overlap consecutive plywood sheets by 3/4in on one 2x4 and
screw them in that way? I like the idea of building the loft for the
bed first; that might just work out. Any other ideas on framing
would be great. Like how do I attach the 2x6's to hold the roof to
the vertical 2x4's which run agains the wall?
article <3A266984...@psu.edu>,
Mike Yukish
> I mainly need help with how to connect the wood because I don't
> have a lot of experience with the framing aspect. I have decided to
> go with all 3/4 in plywood and no 4x4's. My question is, do I
> overlap consecutive plywood sheets by 3/4in on one 2x4 and
> screw them in that way?
Although you ask many open questions of broad significance to this court of
opinion, I shall exercise judicial constraint and only address the narrow
question at hand (I love my supreme courts, every county should have one).
Consider not overlapping the plywood on the 2x4s, where sections join next
to each other. Consider putting 2x4s at the vertical edges of each sheet of
plywood, and then bolting the 2x4s from adjoining sheets together. You can
build sections in modules this way. YMMV.
Tom Stybr
>
> I ordered a couple hundred tee-nuts from these guys using our account at
> work, Non taxable org too, got them for less than 6 cents each, cheapest
> i've found yet.
>
> And they do deliver next day drop ship.
>
> Woody
Hmmm. I find the zinc-plated, four prong, 3/8"-16 tee-nuts to be $12.76
per 100. That's the most common size for wall building, isn't it? I can
do that well locally. Pretty cool site, though. Lotsa stuff.
Tom Stybr
mun...@my-deja.com
the 2x6's for the roof to the tops of the 2x4's? Whats the best way?
In article <3A267F84...@psu.edu>,
madd...@my-deja.com
>>I intend to use 2x4's and 1/2" plywood on
>>the vertical sections
>I experimented with 1/2 inch plywood and found it unsatisfactory.
Correct. 3/4 is the way to go. The t-nut barbs can weaken 1/2" enough
that a big hold on a steep wall can be loaded hard enough to pull the t-
nut through.
>>I am going to use 4x4"
>>pylons for main support beams, spaced either every 12" or every 16".
>This sounds like over kill.
Also correct, although if you were building a tall wall with lead
anchors, 4x4's might work well as the main structural elements. Part
of the problem with 4x4's is that they block a fair amount of the back
of the sheet. So if a t-nut is blocked by the beam, you have to use a
bolt of just the right length or it will bottom out. In addition, if
that t-nut strips, you have to pull the sheet of plywood off to replace
it. Voice of experience...
>>I have ordered both Thomas' book and Leavitt's book on building
>>home walls.
>These are both a complete waste of money. Both books talk a lot
>about foggy ideas but don't supply much detail.
Just run down to the library and check out a basic carpentry book that
covers stud-wall framing. One does not have to use those conventional
techniques if the structure overhead has exposed joists that you can
tie into. For example, it's trivial to use drywall screws to attach
your wall studs to ceiling joists. If the floor is wood, the wal studs
can be toenailed or toe-screwed into it. If the floor is cement, you
can use a footer board if you wish. Or you can just let the studs rest
on the cement. Just use standard techniques if you are in doubt.
jeffe...@my-deja.com
distance available. Stand these on edge, tight together. Hook your tape
on the left end and make marks at 15 1/4", 31 1/4", 47 1/4", etcetera,
with all the marks 3/4" shy of the 16 inch increments until you get to
the end of the top and bottom plates. Then add a mark 1 1/2" to the
right of each mark you already made. These are your layout marks, and
indicate where each of your 2x6 vertical studs go. Notice the marks are
the same distance apart as your studs are thick. You will also need a
stud at each end of the top and bottom plates, to sturdy up the left
and right end of the wall.
Now, slide your studs into place, on edge, perpendicular to the two
plates you have just laid out. Next take the plate that isn't up
against the array of studs, carry it to the top of the wall, and lay it
in place. Grab a handfull of 16 penny nails, place one foot on the
intersection of stud and plate, brace the other foot against the plate
so it won't move when you smack on it with the hammer, and nail through
the plate into the end of the stud. Don't hit your toes or fingers.
Nail all the studs into one plate first, then do the other plate.
Measure diagonally across the wall from one corner to the opposite.
Twist the wall around, racking it until the two diagonal measurements
from corner to corner match exactly. This ensures that the wall is
square and will stand plumb when stood up.
Starting from the left, lay a 4'x8' piece of plywood on the wall, *
foot dimension going up and down on the finished wall, flush with the
left edge. If you laid the wall out correctly, the right edge of said
plywood sheet will fall exactly in the middle of the 4th stud, bearing
3/4" on the stud for you to nail or screw into, and leaving 3/4" of the
stud free for the second sheet of plywood.
Screw the plywood down to the studs, every foot or 16" ought to do it,
taking the time to make sure the first sheet is exactly square and
lined up, because any mistakes here will follow you all the way across.
Regarding the "ceiling". The strongest method is for your joists, the
2x6's standing on edge that form the structural portion of your
horizontal surfaces, to rest on *top* of the wall you just built. This
requires accurate measurement of your studs before you ever build the
wall, to get the wall heigth right so the joists can sit on top and
still clear the existing ceiling.
Alternatively, you can attach a "bandboard" 2x6 to the face of the
studs. Use a level. Three 16 penny nails per stud, or 2 1/4'x3" lag
screws per stud will be adequate. Attach joist hangars, (ask at the
hardware store, 2x6 size)to the face of the 2x6 bandboard such that
they line up exactly with the studs in the vertical wall. If space is
tight, you may have to put joist hangars on one end of the joists,
place and nail/screw the joists, and then add the joist hangars to the
other end after the joists are in place. If you are doing it by
yourself, drive a 16 penny nail partway into the top edge of the joist,
about 1 inch from the end, then bend it over so it sticks out past the
end of the joist. Hook this nail on the top of one bandboard to hold
one end in place while you nail the other end, if you don't have enough
room to have all the hangars in place before you lay the joists. Pound
easy and watch your head until you have both ends nailed securely.
For diagonal surfaces (negative angles), do the wall and the roof
first, then use a tool called a "speedsquare" to calculate your angles
that need to be cut on the "studs" that support the angled portion.
Remember that the angle of one end, plus the angle of the other, will
add up to exactly 90 degrees. The pamphlet that comes with the speed
square does an excellant job of describing how to figure your angles.
Fasten these in place by nailing or screwing through metal plates bent
into a right angle called frame plates or framing clips.
A couple other notes. One, if the run of the ceiling is more than 10
feet, consider going to 2x8's for your joists. 2x6 joists will tend to
sag on a span of much over 10 feet with your body weight on them. Two,
you may need to use a technique called toenailing to get some members
fastened to others. Ask the guy at the hardware store to demonstrate.
Three, big knots in your lumber, especially in the ceiling joists, are
a no-no.
Finally, for all you folks who want to climb at home but don't have
room to dedicate to a wall, consider one of those ladders that have
hinges at the quarter, half and three quarter points and can be bent
into all kind of fantastic shapes. Climb on the underside, and keep in
mind that the holes in the rails where the rungs are fastened are just
right for two finger "pockets". You can make a bracket high on one wall
to support one end of the ladder, take it down, fold it up, and store
it in a closet when not in use.
Gimpy
borrow or steel a professional quality driver for the decking screws. Any
kind of regular drill or cheap drill/driver will be trashed; you will curse
and smash it against the wall. Forget battery power. I had all this lumber
and was ready to kill myself trying to use a battery drill until a friend
gave me the real deal.
Buy lots of the screw bits - the kind of driver I'm talking about uses the
short little ones that pop in and are held by magnets. You will go through
lots of them. But you will have power! Bapbapbapbap and a 3-in. screw is
sunk, head buried 1/4 inch in the wood. I never used anything but 2x4's,
and have a pretty complex wall, overhangs, ceiling, you name it and you
could jack the motor out of you car on it.
Good luck if you need to take any panels down - the driver is pretty hard on
the screw heads. Try to provide for access to the back of thepanels, and
use tons of t nuts, cuz a certain number are going to turn on you and become
useless.
I may be stating something totally obvious about the driver to you craftsmen
out there, but I was clueless and and the right tool made the process
totally easy.
<mun...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:900sp2$4sg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I am planning on building my own wall, probably about the 1st week of
> january. Does anyone have any advice? Where is the best place to get
> wood? How much wood? Should I use 1/2" or 3/4"? What is the best
> place to get holds? Does anyone sell them in bulk or give a buld
> discount? Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!
>
>
Woody
Woody
--
Woody Software, Shentona R/C Speedway
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/ Woody Software website.
http://shentona.bizland.com Shentona R/C Speedway.
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/samples.htm The Emax Sampler Sound Archive.
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/devilstower/climbing.htm Woody's Climbing
Website
Tom Stybr <tom....@BRAKboeing.com> wrote in message
news:3A266E39...@BRAKboeing.com...
Woody
experience I have but its a bit off topic. This is a pretty basic site that
will help the novice in the frame up area.
http://www.hometime.com/projects/conbasic.htm
Woody
--
Woody Software, Shentona R/C Speedway
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/ Woody Software website.
http://shentona.bizland.com Shentona R/C Speedway.
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/samples.htm The Emax Sampler Sound Archive.
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/devilstower/climbing.htm Woody's Climbing
Website
<mun...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:905m73$et$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Ok, so I've scrapped the 4x4 idea. I ordered the books because I don't
> know a whole lot about framing a wooden structure of this sort. My
> understanding is that I should place vertical studs every 12 or 16". I
> had intended to use 2x4's for any vertical wall and 2x6's for anything
> overhanging. How do I attach the vertical studs to one another? Do I
> need a piece of 2x4 or 2x6 connected horizontally between each one or
> is the plywood sheeting sufficient to hold them together. Do I simply
> overlap each piece of plywood by 3/4" on each 2x4/2x6? I have the wall
> designed, but I don't know enough about the framing to figure out how
> to hold the whole thing together. Can anyone help me out??
>
>
beas...@my-deja.com
"Gimpy" <webm...@nelsonrocks.org> wrote:
> I didn't see anyone in this thread mention this: It is critical to
> beg borrow or steel a professional quality driver for the decking
> screws. Any kind of regular drill or cheap drill/driver will be
> trashed; you will curse and smash it against the wall. Forget battery
> power. I had all this lumber and was ready to kill myself trying to
> use a battery drill until a friend gave me the real deal.
Have you tried one of the decent-quality modern cordless drill-drivers?
I have a Makita that I'm pretty damn pleased with. The 14-18 volt
models should have plenty of power/torque. The newest models have even
more power and torque than a corded drill (according to a recent
Consumer Reports test).
> Good luck if you need to take any panels down - the driver is pretty
> hard on the screw heads.
By that do you mean your driver over-drives or strips the screws? A
good drill with a quality clutch should prevent this. See Makita.
Regards,
SeanM
Dave Condit
>have a lot of experience with the framing aspect. I have decided to
>go with all 3/4 in plywood and no 4x4's. My question is, do I
>overlap consecutive plywood sheets by 3/4in on one 2x4 and
>screw them in that way?
By overlap, I assume you mean the ends of two pieces of plywood meet in the
middle of a single stud (either 2x4 or 2x6). You do not want to do this.
Since your wall is 8 feet wide (I think), and plywood sheets are 8 feet wide,
you should not have to address this issue at all. Instead of standing the
plywood sheets vertically, lay them horizontally so that they are perpendicular
to the studs.
To join the the studs together (the plywood is not suffient alone), you will
need horizontal cross braces. Because the wall is only 8 feet high, cross
braces at the top & bottom should be sufficient. The easiest way is probably
to borm a box.
Lay out four studs to form an 8x8 box and attach with lag bolts or lag screws.
Do not use nails or decking screws for this part. Then, fill in the box with
with vertical studs spaced every 16 inches (this is standard stud spacing).
For the vertical studs, decking screws will be sufficient.
Stand the box up and attach the plywood (two sheets butting up against each
other but perpendicular to the studs).
Fot the roof section, attach 2x6 cross beems (one every 16 inches) using two
3/8 inch lag bolts at each joint.
Dave
Gimpy
> In article <906qoo$gho$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>,
> "Gimpy" <webm...@nelsonrocks.org> wrote:
> > I didn't see anyone in this thread mention this: It is critical to
> > beg borrow or steel a professional quality driver for the decking
> > screws. Any kind of regular drill or cheap drill/driver will be
> > trashed; you will curse and smash it against the wall. Forget battery
> > power. I had all this lumber and was ready to kill myself trying to
> > use a battery drill until a friend gave me the real deal.
>
> Have you tried one of the decent-quality modern cordless drill-drivers?
> I have a Makita that I'm pretty damn pleased with. The 14-18 volt
> models should have plenty of power/torque. The newest models have even
> more power and torque than a corded drill (according to a recent
> Consumer Reports test).
Could well be. Mine was an older 14-volt craftsman and it just didn'y have
the umphh.
>
> > Good luck if you need to take any panels down - the driver is pretty
> > hard on the screw heads.
>
> By that do you mean your driver over-drives or strips the screws? A
> good drill with a quality clutch should prevent this. See Makita.
The drill heads are generally trashed. I also received a private email
critiqueing my advice and driving technique. What I found was that the
torque needed to drive the screws - esp. the 4 in. ones I used to mount the
2x4's to the wall studs - needed tremendous torque to sink. I have since
acquired a better battery powered driver, and yes, the clutch will keep it
from damaging or overdriving a screw, but you're trading off torque and when
the going gets too tough, you just won't go anywhere.
I never predrilled the holes except in the plywood panels; that would be
another approach but I am lazy. If you are really concerned about
disassembing the wall, I expect that predrilling is mandatory. But the tool
I used - sorry, I had to give it back and forget what it was exactly - was
unstoppable and fast, I'm talking 2 seconds per screw. The wall is welded
together, absolutely rigid and 10 times as strong as it needs to be.
Gimpy
just a driver in the sense that it has adjustable torque settings? The tool
I used doesn't just twist the screw in, it hammers as well. It was not
usable as a drill at all, it was strictly a driver. It had a clutch, not
adjustable, but it would still grind out the screw head if you weren't
careful.
The little bits it used, you can buy them by the handful, 84 lumber keeps a
big jar of them at the front desk. They're not nearly as expensive as
regular drill bits, and I think even skilled trademen go through them fast.
<beas...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:906spa$303$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
rick++
They are cnsidered an "attractive nuisance" by homeowners insurance
and can void claims if not careful.
Gleshna
- A traditional climbing wall with replaceable holds
OR
I recall one author mentioning that once he said up the wall, he would not
change it, I forgot the reason. I don't change mine often but that is because
I am lazy.
- Also, I don't know if system training is still in vogue but this would mean
lots of symmetry considerations.
REd
beas...@my-deja.com
"Gimpy" <webm...@nelsonrocks.org> wrote:
> BTW, just so we're clear, does your Makita have hammering action, or
> is it just a driver in the sense that it has adjustable torque
> settings?
Ah, gotcha. No, my Makita isn't a hammer drill. Just a regular drill
with 2 speed settings (one for drilling, the other for driving screws),
and a bunch of clutch settings (again for the screws). I would think a
hammer drill would trash screws. I thought hammer drills were really
only used for pre-drilling into hard stuff, like concrete or stone?
Michael Riches
> I thought hammer drills were really
> only used for pre-drilling into hard stuff, like concrete or stone?
>
> Regards,
> SeanM
Yea...but most hammer drills that accept regular bits have a "hammer" or "no
hammer" setting that will allow you to use the tool as a regular drill. On
the SDS ones this may not be the case...
The Rockrat...
Gimpy
<beas...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:908n2r$gds$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <9087r5$5nd$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>,
> "Gimpy" <webm...@nelsonrocks.org> wrote:
> > BTW, just so we're clear, does your Makita have hammering action, or
> > is it just a driver in the sense that it has adjustable torque
> > settings?
>
> Ah, gotcha. No, my Makita isn't a hammer drill. Just a regular drill
> with 2 speed settings (one for drilling, the other for driving screws),
> and a bunch of clutch settings (again for the screws). I would think a
> only used for pre-drilling into hard stuff, like concrete or stone?
I don't mean to belabor the point, but these tools, whatever their called,
are absolutely the ticket for quick and easy wall assembly. No, it isn't a
masonry drill, though it may work on a similar principle. It won't accept
any kind of drilling bits, inly these 1" long screwdriver bits, with I think
a hexagonal
cross section, that pop in & are held by a magnet. I borrowed it from a
contractor friend. Yeah, it trashes the screws but, boy, it gets 'em in
there. No pre-drilling. Brrrrrippp! Next screw, please. Picture the
impact wrenches they use at a tire dealer. Find one and you'll fall in
love, best experience you'll ever have screwing .
Surely someone out there knows what I'm talking about. I probably
overstated the problem with disassembly, too, because the tool does a good
job of backing screws out. Even if the screw head is shredded.
Jeremy the Sumo Climber
"Gimpy" <webm...@nelsonrocks.org> wrote:
> BTW, just so we're clear, does your Makita have hammering action, or is it
> just a driver in the sense that it has adjustable torque settings?
> I used doesn't just twist the screw in, it hammers as well. It was not
> usable as a drill at all, it was strictly a driver. It had a clutch, not
> adjustable, but it would still grind out the screw head if you weren't
> careful.
>
Sounds like a drywall driver. A bit more than is necessary, but would work.
- Sumo
Bruce Henderson
We currently have over 200 square feet in place with one vertical panel, one
15 degree overhung, one 30 degree overhung and two ceiling panels. We also
have an arete between the vertical and 15 degree panel.
Our wall is bombproof. We used 2"x6" studs on twelve inch centers, 3/4" X
4'X8' plywood and 3.5" deck screws. We placed 2x4 "spacers" every 2 feet at
right angles to the floor joists (basement ceiling) for our ceiling panels
to have some additional reinforcement. Pay attention to what the other guy
said about your pattern for drilling the holes for your holds. Make sure
they miss the studs. (lesson learned the hard way)
Regarding stripped screws, we went to Lowes and bought Phillips II deck
screws. These come with their own driver bits and have a special design to
help prevent stripping. They work great and are worth the little extra you
pay. We used a new 14.4 volt Black & Decker driver that had plenty of
torque. It also has a variable clutch to prevent overdriving the screws.
We did paint our panels with a textured paint from Lowes. I wouldn't do it
again. The paint comes off too easy even though we primed the wood first. It
mainly comes off just above the lower holds where our climbing shoes scrape
it as we adjust our feet.
Something no one mentioned, we glued our T-nuts in to help prevent spinners.
It may be overkill, but we have not had any spin yet. We wouldn't want to
take all the deck screws out to remove a panel just to repair a T-nut. We
used Liquid Nail glue for wood and metal.
I looked at the books mentioned and found them to be totally inadequate for
our needs. I found a lot more information on the web.
The two biggest issues for us was the cost of the hold and crashpads. We are
pretty good at finding the lowest prices and the holds are still damn
expensive. Also, we will have over 200 square feet of ceiling panels when we
are done and want to be sure we don't kill ourselves falling off. (concrete
floor!) The price of manufactured crashpads for our size wall was too much.
We shopped for alternatives and settled on two layers of open cell foam (5"
and 3") with a piece of 1/2" closed cell on top. This will all be encased by
a homemade cover.
We added additional lighting via a 3 head track light we bought at Lowes. It
was around $18.00 and a great investment. We bought the expensive ($6.00
each) Halogen bulbs and that is all the light we will ever need.
Be sure to have a radio, a couple of fans and chairs nearby. The workout we
get is way more intense (physically, not mentally) then climbing outdoors.
BTW, the investment in a couple of T-handled allen wrenches was worth it. I
found ours at the local Graingers for about $6.00 each.
Good luck, you are doing the right thing by asking questions and getting a
lot of opinions first.
Bruce Henderson
"Gleshna" <gle...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001201091823...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
jeffe...@my-deja.com
screwing floors off. 3 foot long handle, so you won't strain your back,
gobs and gobs and gobs of torque, and man-o-man, a whole drum magazine
fulla screws!
..ok ok so it costs $550...do ya wanna screw or do ya wanna FREAKIN
SCREW!!!
Jason Perez
Ok, after this say I want to attach it to my garage wall (drywalled with 2x4's on
16" centers). What is the best way to do this? Would I:
Attach the top-plate of the box to the roof joists using lag screws.
Attach the bottom plate to the cement floor using masonry lag screws (this
assumes the box height is the same as the garage height).
What about the 2x4's in the box, do they have to be attached to the wall, if so
how?
Thanks!
-Jason
--
Jason Perez | "Frodo Lives!" "Gig 'em!"
AVSD IC Creation, SPS
Austin, TX
jeffe...@my-deja.com
> Ok, after this say I want to attach it to my garage wall (drywalled
with 2x4's on
> 16" centers). What is the best way to do this? Would I:
>
> Attach the top-plate of the box to the roof joists using lag screws.
> Attach the bottom plate to the cement floor using masonry lag screws
(this
> assumes the box height is the same as the garage height).
>
> What about the 2x4's in the box, do they have to be attached to the
wall, if so
> how?
>
First you have to determine how the climbing wall studs line up as
compared with the studs in the existing garage wall. Unless you want to
simulate rockslides, you want a solid connection, essentially stud to
stud. If they line up perfectly, you could use 8 inch by 3/8'
lagscrews, overboring the hole through the climbing wall so you don't
blow out the stud, and using stacked washers as keepers.
Alternatively, if they don't line upexactly but are close you could lag
bolt blocks onto the existing stud wall and then come through the side
of the climbing wall studs with your screws or bolts so they are in
shear. You really want to think your way through this operation thouhg,
the block has to be stable and firmly fixed to the wall...the potential
exists to lever the blocks off the garage wall if done improperly.
Safest bet, and a no brainer to boot. Bolt a 2x4 block on the garage
wall so that it laps over at least 2 of the existing studs, and is
fastened securely to both. Then add a second block to the face of the
first in the proper location to catch one of the climbing wall studs as
described above. Downside to this method is that it wastes an inch and
a half times the existing wall area of total garage volume because the
climbing wall had an inch and a half of dead space between it and the
existing wall. Upside is that since you know you are fastened to two
existing studs, the block can't lever out of the existing wall.
Jason Perez
You could use the screws with the square drive heads. They take much
more abuse before the heads are stripped. Deck-Make makes a sort
of dual phillips/square head and a bit that goes with it, works
pretty well.
Woody
trashing screws the clutch assembly in it was not working properly for you.
These are not a hammer action drill, the hammering sound your referring to
is the sound of the torque drive kicking out, if properly adjusted these
stop the screw at the proper depth flush with the surface you are driving
into, and prevent tearing out of the screw head. These are indeed a great
tool, I have 3 of them, but work best on low density materials like drywall
or thin sheeting. They can be rather troublesome to use if they are an older
version that doesnt have an externally adjustable torque setting. Most of
the newer version have a torque/depth adjustment on them. You can usually
rent one from a rental store for like $15 a day. Also you can use the Torx
and Square drive bits in them as well to elimnate some of the screw tear
out.
Later dude
Woody
--
Woody Software, Shentona R/C Speedway
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/ Woody Software website.
http://shentona.bizland.com Shentona R/C Speedway.
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/samples.htm The Emax Sampler Sound Archive.
http://sarconastic.bizland.com/devilstower/climbing.htm Woody's Climbing
Website
Gimpy <webm...@nelsonrocks.org> wrote in message
news:9090q8$kgh$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>
> <beas...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:908n2r$gds$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <9087r5$5nd$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>,
> > "Gimpy" <webm...@nelsonrocks.org> wrote:
> > > BTW, just so we're clear, does your Makita have hammering action, or
> > > is it just a driver in the sense that it has adjustable torque
> > > settings?
> >
> > Ah, gotcha. No, my Makita isn't a hammer drill. Just a regular drill
> > with 2 speed settings (one for drilling, the other for driving screws),
> > and a bunch of clutch settings (again for the screws). I would think a
> > hammer drill would trash screws. I thought hammer drills were really
> > only used for pre-drilling into hard stuff, like concrete or stone?
>
> I don't mean to belabor the point, but these tools, whatever their called,
> are absolutely the ticket for quick and easy wall assembly. No, it isn't
a
> masonry drill, though it may work on a similar principle. It won't accept
> any kind of drilling bits, inly these 1" long screwdriver bits, with I
think
> a hexagonal
> cross section, that pop in & are held by a magnet. I borrowed it from a
> contractor friend. Yeah, it trashes the screws but, boy, it gets 'em in
> there. No pre-drilling. Brrrrrippp! Next screw, please. Picture the
> impact wrenches they use at a tire dealer. Find one and you'll fall in
> love, best experience you'll ever have screwing .
>
> Surely someone out there knows what I'm talking about. I probably
> overstated the problem with disassembly, too, because the tool does a good
> job of backing screws out. Even if the screw head is shredded.
> >
Tom Stybr
Jason Perez wrote:
>
> Ok, after this say I want to attach it to my garage wall (drywalled with 2x4's on
> 16" centers). What is the best way to do this? Would I:
>
> Attach the top-plate of the box to the roof joists using lag screws.
> Attach the bottom plate to the cement floor using masonry lag screws (this
> assumes the box height is the same as the garage height).
>
> What about the 2x4's in the box, do they have to be attached to the wall, if so
> how?
The vertical framing of my garage wall is not fastened to the floor or
the existing wall. The top plate is deck screwed into 2X's that span the
top of adjacent ceiling joists (part of the roof truss - they run
parallel to the face of the wall) above. Ceiling joists are further
supported by the plywood roof panels. The framing box freestands
otherwise. I decided against lagging into the floor and haven't
regretted that. YMMV.
Tom Stybr
Tom Stybr
> You could use the screws with the square drive heads. They take much
> more abuse before the heads are stripped. Deck-Make makes a sort
> of dual phillips/square head and a bit that goes with it, works
> pretty well.
>
I've had very good results using those screws and a regular, corded,
variable speed drill. I pilot hole plywood and stop when the head is
flush with the surface. I rarely trash a screw head and the bits last a
good long time. For those who advise a hammering-type driver, I don't
see any pros to that, only cons. Never apply any hammering force to any
screw as you'll damage whatever you're fastening. Plywood is especially
vulnerable to splintering.
I treat my wall as a temporary structure. Someday, I'll be taking it
somewhere else. When that day comes I want all those screws to back
right out.
Tom Stybr