To Cheat or Not to Cheat?
OutlawClimber
working on something hard, I sometimes "skip" a move by using an
off-route hold. This lets me move up farther and try and work the rest
of the moves on the route. My question is, is it better to do that so as
to work more moves total, or would it be a better idea training-wise to
keep struggling with the one move I can't do? I don't want to make
things too easy on myself but it also seems kind of pointless to give up
and come down the first time I hit a move I can't do.
(By the way, I don't claim to have climbed a route if I cheated on it.)
TIA
Tierney
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Inez Drixelius
<tierne...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> (By the way, I don't claim to have climbed a route if I cheated on it.)
Better not, or you will be reported to the climbing gym polit bureau!
--
Inez Drixelius
Berkeley, California
John Byrnes
> This is basically a training question.
Oh. So someday you'll ask more intelligent ones?
> When climbing in the gym and
> working on something hard, I sometimes "skip" a move by using an
> off-route hold. This lets me move up farther and try and work the rest
> of the moves on the route. My question is, is it better to do that so as
> to work more moves total, or would it be a better idea training-wise to
> keep struggling with the one move I can't do?
This question is really stupid. You really do need more practice.
> I don't want to make things too easy on myself but ...
Don't worry your pretty little head about that.
> (By the way, I don't claim to have climbed a route if I cheated on it.)
Common field mice have more serious ethical dilemmas than this.
- Lord Slime
Jon Kennedy
JMK
Dingus Milktoast
holds. Megacheating, DMT style.
DMT
Michael E. Gordon
> working on something hard, I sometimes "skip" a move by using an
> off-route hold. This lets me move up farther and try and work the rest
> of the moves on the route. My question is, is it better to do that so as
> to work more moves total, or would it be a better idea training-wise to
> keep struggling with the one move I can't do?
It is better to not climb in a gym. You needn't worry about petty issues
like this outside.
> (By the way, I don't claim to have climbed a route if I cheated on it.)
Thank you for clarifying. Enquiring minds want to know.
Grant M
> When climbing in the gym and... I sometimes "skip" a move by using an
> off-route hold. ...
>
> (By the way, I don't claim to have climbed a route if I cheated on it.)
Hmm... perhaps you should try a looser fitting size of Lycra(tm) G
Jay Cooley
Michael E. Gordon wrote:
> > This is basically a training question. When climbing in the gym and
> > working on something hard, I sometimes "skip" a move by using an
> > off-route hold. This lets me move up farther and try and work the rest
> > of the moves on the route. My question is, is it better to do that so as
> > to work more moves total, or would it be a better idea training-wise to
> > keep struggling with the one move I can't do?
>
> It is better to not climb in a gym. You needn't worry about petty issues
> like this outside.
>
> > (By the way, I don't claim to have climbed a route if I cheated on it.)
>
Scott Presho
>(By the way, I don't claim to have climbed a route if I cheated on it.)
An you call yourself an outlaw!!
pshaw!!
Scott
Dr. Dope
Dingus Milktoast <crha...@midtown.net> wrote:
> I like to do gym routes where I use none of the marked
> holds. Megacheating, DMT style.
I thought the goal was to touch all the marked ones on your way up...
Did I miss something?
Erik
OutlawClimber
the gym around here. I guess most of you guys don't have a job, live
out of your cars and get on real rock every day? Well, for the few
people who answered my question with something resembling information,
thanks. As for the rest of you, your arrogance is unbelievable, and
fuck you very much.
--Tierney
5.10poser
Welcome to wreck.climbing. You must have forgotten your salt shaker when
you read the posts to your question. In the future you should take all
beta from the news group with a generous helping of salt even the answers
"resembling information".
SteviDx
P.S.
Keep a stiff upper lip ol chap.
Ian Manger
> I thought the goal was to touch all the marked ones on your way up...
>
> Did I miss something?
The absurdity of this thread for one thing....
Turn your sarcasm detector up a notch or two. It goes to 11.
lol ian
Michael E. Gordon
> the gym around here. I guess most of you guys don't have a job, live
> out of your cars and get on real rock every day? Well, for the few
> people who answered my question with something resembling information,
> thanks. As for the rest of you, your arrogance is unbelievable, and
> fuck you very much.
uH-OH! You in trouble............
Dave Andersen
You've missed the point entirely. The problem is not admitting to
climbing in a gym - many of us do it on a regular basis - the problem is
asking stupid questions. Fix that, and you'll get a good response from
the people around here. :)
It should be fairly obvious that the way you climb is *up to you*.
Everyone has different styles; as Alan Lindsey is fond of pointing out,
it's all "par 14".
In case I haven't made it painfully obvious yet, if you're challenged by
the routes the way you're doing them and you find it enjoyable, then it's
okay. If it's ruining the climb for you, then it's probably a little
silly. Just like your reaction to the replies to your post.
Breathe slowly, ten times, before hitting "send".
-Dave
--
work: dga - at - lcs.mit.edu me: angio - at - pobox.com
MIT Laboratory for Computer Science http://www.angio.net/
Mike Garrison
>
> Oh, yeah... I forgot that it's ever so un-PC to admit to climbing in
> the gym around here. I guess most of you guys don't have a job, live
> out of your cars and get on real rock every day? Well, for the few
> people who answered my question with something resembling information,
> thanks. As for the rest of you, your arrogance is unbelievable, and
> fuck you very much.
Tierney, grow up.
Grant M
main street of the typical western town, ca.1800's. Inside the local
watering hole, the piano man bangs out a ragtime tune for the dark-eyed,
dusty, nameless crowd anxiously waiting for the one called "Outlaw
Climber".)
Snake Eyes- "Word has it The Outlaw climbed Crimson Chrysalis in 3
hours, saddle to saddle!"
Lord Slime- "Words're one thing, doin's another..."
El Chupacabra- "But his moniker...! I hear he's got a mean temper and a
hair trigger. Doan know 'bout you all, but I'm high tailin' it outta
here as soon as I finish this here sassparilla!"
L.S.- "I always knew you were yella. I've seen plenty come, and most of
them go."
(Suddenly the saloon doors are flung open, and The Outlaw Climber storms
in, outfitted in Day-Glo Spandex, sun glinting off his shiny new gear.
Dead silence as he slowly looks every man in the eye...)
O.C.- "Which one of you can help me tie this here figger-8 knot?"
(A moment of silence as everyone glances around before erupting in
laughter)
Entire bar- "Bwaa-ha-ha! He's only a newbie! Let's have some fun,
boys!"
In a flash, OutlawClimber high tails it out of town on his trusty hobby
horse "Pokey", cap guns blazing, whining," As for the rest of you, your
arrogance is unbelievable, and fuck you very much."
L.S.- "Predictable. Barkeep! Whiskey all around!"
The End?...
G
Michael E. Gordon
TRULY CLASSIC. Belongs in the same save-file as the sumo-climber generated
Josh earthquake.
CrackBoy
>
> Kind of hard to climb "off route" when you're outside on REAL rock.
>
"It happens to everyone sooner or later."
"Ever happen to you?"
"NO! Never."
Crack "Doubting Tom" Boy
CrackBoy
> I thought the goal was to touch all the marked ones on your way up...
Yup. With EACH FUNCTIONING APPENDAGE!
Crack "Now THAT's talent" Boy
OutlawClimber
gra...@armchairscientist.com wrote:
>
ROTFLMAO!!!
OK, OK, _I_ thought I had a legit question and was pissed off to not
only get flamed (which I was expecting) but to scarcely even get any
genuine answers... I think this ng could be a much more informative
place if some people would give more signal, less noise... But that
little scene of yours was more than worth the price of admission.
--Tierney
John Byrnes
> your arrogance is unbelievable,
Really? You obviously need to expand your horizons.
> and fuck you very much.
You're welcome.
- Lord Slime, this outlaw won't last long.
Kelly Rich
> L.S.- "Predictable. Barkeep! Whiskey all around!"
WooHoo! Make those doubles! This party's just startin'!
:- "ROTFLWSCOOMN" k
(RollingOnTheFloorLaughingWithSnotComingOutOfMyNose)
5.10poser
Kelly Rich wrote:
Uh... Kelly isn't that your usual state any way?
SDx
John Baker
>
> This is basically a training question. When climbing in the gym and
> working on something hard, I sometimes "skip" a move by using an
> off-route hold. This lets me move up farther and try and work the rest
> of the moves on the route. My question is, is it better to do that so as
> to work more moves total, or would it be a better idea training-wise to
> keep struggling with the one move I can't do?
"Better" is a bit hard to apply here. Depends on
what type of training you think you are doing and
what your other options might be to accomplish that
training.
Personally, I would try the move a few times, then
ask someone for beta. If I still couldn't do it,
then I'd go do something more fun. Pretty simple,
eh ?
jb
Chris Lunt
then I have to because I'm usually so knackered that I wouldn't be able to
climb back up to retrive the quickdraws so I have to cheat to get to the
lower off point. This only happens at the end of a session.
Remember, If you cheat, you are only cheating yourself. So my teachers say.
Steven Cherry
>> This is basically a training question. When climbing in the gym and
>> working on something hard, I sometimes "skip" a move by using an
>> off-route hold. This lets me move up farther and try and work the rest
>> of the moves on the route. My question is, is it better to do that so as
>> to work more moves total, or would it be a better idea training-wise to
>> keep struggling with the one move I can't do?
This is really a reasonable question, but it isn't consistent with the
subject line, which is why you not only got flamed but didn't get too many
useful answers.
If the move is just a little harder than what you can do, it might make
sense to keep working at it, especially if it involves a new technique for
you. (If the problem is flexibility or strength, then falling off a move
dozens of times might not be the best way to develop those things.)
If you can figure out a way of skipping a hold or doing the move with a
different sequence, by all means do so. It's extremely common outdoors to
hear your partner say "I've never seen anyone do that move that way."
If the route above the crux is worth doing, then by all means do some
off-route thing to get up to the remainder of the route.
Generally speaking, you'll notice complete beginners at the gym ignoring
route limitations and just using any holds available (in my local gym this
is called "rainbowing"). At some point they start doing actual routes.
A useful intermediary step is to *try* to do an actual route, using
additional holds only when really stuck. Count the number of "cheat" holds
and try to use fewer of them each time you repeat the route (when the
number is zero you've done the route.)
One thing to remember: to actually have done a hard move, you need to
start from below it. It's often easy to hang on the rope after falling and
get to a position that you can't get to naturally and make a move that you
still can't make in sequence. That's a good way of getting past a move,
but not a good way of *making* the move.
-steven-
--
<ste...@panix.com>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
There are 9990 roads.
9990 roads to heaven. (from the movie Red Sorghum)
Greg Daughtry
We'll be sure and let you know when we get a signal from you...
'Greg
Portland, OR
OutlawClimber wrote in message...
-snip
soli...@my-deja.com
the moves on.
There are two schools of thought on training on gym routes. One is to
work a route to death until you get it, which is how I started out, and
the other is to do intervals on something you can barely on-sight. This
is the way I try to train now, and I think it works better.
Rememeber that if you want to work on endurance/power endurance, you
must continue climbing for the duration of a long route. If you take
hangs every ten feet on something then you are essentially training
power.
When training on routes for power/endurance, it's best to do a route you
can barely on-sight, then do a similar route after 5-15 minutes rest.
Repeat the process eight or so times. This will probably give you the
most desireable results in your training.
Dan Goodman
<funny Western climbing scenario clipped>
> The End?...
Naaahhh! Once the Outlaw learns how to tie a figgerate,
he'll blow back into town gunning for the LS. Second
mistake.
Dan Goodman
Dan Goodman
> OK, OK, _I_ thought I had a legit question and was pissed off to not
> only get flamed (which I was expecting) but to scarcely even get any
> place if some people would give more signal, less noise...
But the fact that questions that aren't legit, even though
they may seem so, don't get any respect around here, *is* an
informative signal.
Included S/N reduction string:
a[p84t2;oja/9ps7y;tqiog/lkxas":LKAP J['QTWEQ;OIEQW'
Dan Goodman
Dan Goodman
> I thought the goal was to touch all the marked ones on your way up...
>
Actually, yes, you did.
If you choose to play the game set up by the route-setter,
the goal is to climb up, touching no holds except the marked
ones for that route. If you don't touch a marked hold (an
eliminate) you have still done the route.
I hope I haven't just been trolled, but just in case you
didn't know, whooomp, there it is!
Dan Goodman
DougG
there, use it. It's remarkable how well this works outdoors, too.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!