(OT) The Election of 2000
Jim
By Denis Mueller
In the months leading to the election of 2000, Florida
Secretary of State Katherine Harris and Governor Jeb Bush
ordered the removal of tens of thousands of voters on the
grounds that they were felons and, therefore, not entitled to
vote.
At first it was about 57,000 voters, but the company that did
it for them, called ChoicePoint, now says it was 94,000 voters.
ChoicePoint was sued by the NAACP and now has turned over the
information and it turned out that 94,000 people were knocked
off the rolls. When you consider how close this election was
then you can see that this was a very high number.
This would be legal if these people were guilty of crimes. It
turns out that, at minimum, 97 percent of the people on the
list are innocent. The list was aimed at Democratics and, as
it turns out, about half the list are African American and
other minorities. In fact one out of every eight black voters
was denied the vote. This is a disgusting figure considering
America's racial past, and especially its past regarding
voting.
Supposedly, these were convicted felons forbidden to vote in
Florida, but 90 percent of them turned out to be innocent of
any crime--except perhaps Voting While Black. Over half the
innocent voters on the list were black, and had they been
allowed to exercise their voting rights, Gore would have
whipped Bush in Florida. ChoicePoint is a database company with
prominent Republicans on its board and payroll.
DBT, a company now owned by ChoicePoint of Atlanta, was paid
$4.3 million for its work, replacing a firm that charged $5,700
per year for the same service. If the hope was that DBT would
enable Florida to exclude more voters, then the state appears
to have spent its money wisely. But is this just?
So this is how the Bush people stole the election. They did
it the old fashioned way by denying people of color the vote.
If this is true, you may ask, why the press and the Democratic
Party miss. It is an example of how racism in elections is
still a very strong part of our culture. When this was brought
to the attention of the Senate by the Black Caucus no one in
the Democratic Party stood up and so the story died.
The Supreme Court, and its chief justice who had once harassed
minority voters and argued in favor of Plessy vs. Ferguson,
helped seal the dirty deed. All of this you may say is old news
but it serves as an example of why the Bush people see them-
selves as above any kind of ethics.
I want to ask you Bush supporters if this is the kind of demo-
cracy you believe in. Is this democracy? How can we talk about
free elections when we can't even have fair elections in the
United States? To make matters worse, laws passed after 9-11
by the state of Florida make it impossible to study this until
the state changes its laws. So there you have it. This is how
they stole the election.
Sources: Greg Palast
--
Remove the numbers from my address to respond directly
Harry Krause
This was the most widely underreported story of the election. It was a
deliberate, right-wing attempt to purge the Florida voter list of black
voters.
Yet another card in the stacked deck of Republican election theft.
When Bill Clinton was president, he got a few blow jobs.
Now we have a blow job as president.
Sad.
Eisboch
"Jim" <Jam...@rpa.net> wrote in message news:3EAA6D77...@rpa.net...
> The Election of 2000
Two and a half years later, the whining continues
..............................................
Boat underway next week for the trip north. Wish I were going, but maybe
next time.
Eisboch
Harry Krause
It's not whining, it's reporting of outright fraud, news that was
reported before and at and after election time, but not as widely as it
should have been. The Florida Republicans purged the voter lists of tens
of thousands of men and women, the majority of whom would have voted for
Democratic candidates.
Skipper
> It's not whining, it's reporting of outright fraud, news that was
> reported before and at and after election time, but not as widely as it
> should have been. The Florida Republicans purged the voter lists of tens
> of thousands of men and women, the majority of whom would have voted for
> Democratic candidates.
Republican attempts to keep illegal aliens, felons, and the dead from
voting is not fraud, it is the law. The Democrats invented vote fraud
and consistently attempt to steal elections:
http://www.ejfi.org/Voting/Voting-12.htm
--
Skipper
John Gaquin
they lose, it's "You cheated, you cheated!" Like watching my kids play --
when they were 6 years old.
JG
Joe
> Republican attempts to keep illegal aliens, felons, and the dead from
> voting is not fraud, it is the law. The Democrats invented vote fraud
> and consistently attempt to steal elections:
>
Even the NAACP has stated the amount of blacks "disenfranchised" estimated
in the hundreds. They don't seem to care about the 50% of the white people
on the list.
Skipper
Democrats have no problem getting voters to the polls provided
sufficient packs of cigarettes and pints of port wine in paper bags are
distributed on the buses. At least that's one view from the center.
--
Skipper
RGrew176
Sources: Greg Palast
Unfortunately election fraud is nothing new in this country. I have often
wondered in the 1960 election just how many Dead people rose from the grave in
Chicago and the surrounding heavily Democratic environs to vote for JFK and
steal, as some say the 1960 election from Nixon. Election fraud no matter who
is behind it is distasteful but it will go on until some way to fraud proof
elections is found. Both sides are guilty. This time the Republicans outwitted
the Dems and it's their turn to cry.
Annually you will shake hands with 6 men who have recently masturbated and
failed to wash their hands.
jps
news:qUxqa.6037$kc1....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
Out of 94,000?? How could it be hundreds. Perhaps the NAACP is
misinformed?
jps
jps
and you knew it, would you just watch or would you intercede and do your
best to make certain your kids understood cheating wasn't acceptable
behavior?
How's this any different? When we get older, does it become acceptable
behavior to cheat?
jps
"John Gaquin" <john....@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:kNxqa.3887$xw4...@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
Gfretwell
"keep 500,000 'felons' from buying guns"?
These errors were included in Brady "successes".
BTW the lists were sent to the election boards with the disclaimer that they
were just a name and date of birth compliation and they REQUIRED validation.
Most of the counties simply threw the list out and nobody was excluded. Those
who were listed for removal, in the counties that did try to use the list,
were sent notification and given the opportunity to reconcile the error if it
existed.
jps
news:20030426131956...@mb-m16.aol.com...
> Where were the democrats when these same types of flawed lists were used
to
> "keep 500,000 'felons' from buying guns"?
> These errors were included in Brady "successes".
Good point but doesn't rise to the level of electing a president.
> BTW the lists were sent to the election boards with the disclaimer that
they
> were just a name and date of birth compliation and they REQUIRED
validation.
> Most of the counties simply threw the list out and nobody was excluded.
Most likely in counties where the whities live.
jps
Gfretwell
>
If I was being a real devil's advocate I would point out that you don't have
the Constitutional right to vote for president (see article II section 1.) If
the stale legislature "directs" they could have a lottery to select electors.
You do have the right to bear arms.
Gfretwell
BTW that is not true. There are plenty of "whites" in Palm Beach and Broward,
rich democrats and they used the lists without question
Joe
> Out of 94,000?? How could it be hundreds. Perhaps the NAACP is
> misinformed?
Because most of the people on the list belonged on the list.
jps
>
> > Out of 94,000?? How could it be hundreds. Perhaps the NAACP is
> > misinformed?
>
> Because most of the people on the list belonged on the list.
That must be your personally held belief because it bears no resemblance to
the truth.
Quote from article: "This would be legal if these people were guilty of
crimes. It turns out that, at minimum, 97 percent of the people on the list
are innocent."
jps
Joe
> That must be your personally held belief because it bears no resemblance
to
> the truth.
>
Really? And Jim's cut and paste is "the truth"?
> Quote from article: "This would be legal if these people were guilty of
> crimes. It turns out that, at minimum, 97 percent of the people on the
list
> are innocent."
Complete bullshit. Do some investigating on your own.
If you really want to assign blame, then blame the county election officials
who's job it is (state law) to validate each and every person on the
provided list. Many counties totally ignored the list, others used it
without validation, and others used it in the correct manner.
John Gaquin
"jps" <tr...@thedump.com> wrote in message
news:valfsjk...@corp.supernews.com...
> Any good parent would teach their kids to play fairly. If one was
cheating
> and you knew it, would you just watch or would you intercede and do your
> best to make certain your kids understood cheating wasn't acceptable
> behavior?
Predictably, you sidestep the point and try to redefine the issue. Any good
parent knows that children on the losing side almost always accuse the
others of cheating, whether cheating has occurred or not. The well raised
child rather quickly learns to accept sometime defeat as a normally
occurring part of endeavor. Those who do not can be easily found,
trumpeting their self-pity and blaming their lot in life on "_______" [fill
in the blank -- the boss, the owner, republicans, democrats, whites,
blacks, mexicans, etc., etc.] That's why it is so disconcerting to hear the
whine continue more than two years after the election -- it indictates
nothing more than the presence of an alarmingly large number of people so
obsessed they can't get past the emotional age of eight.
JG
Harry Krause
If the Bushites engaged in just minor cheating to steal the election, it
still would have been upsetting, but to engage in first class felonious
behavior...and expect it to be accepted...well, I suppose that is the
Konservative way, eh?
jps
Hmmm. You make a reasonable argument for not holding onto things that
aren't important. I (and probably close to half the country if you polled
them) think this rises to a level of importance -- (surely, you'll grant the
dems the opportunity to bitch and moan after the reps witchhunt of Clinton
for his sexual escapades, plunging the country into several years of
neutral) the only argument you can muster is that people are whining and to
get over it.
From a certain perspective you can also ask the residents of Hiroshima and
Krakow to get over the unfairness foisted upon them.
Should we stop pursuing killers who haven't done anything recently? At what
point do you draw the line and say "oh, well, let bygones be bygones."
Clearly, it's in the hands of those who've been harmed to determine when
something should be dropped. From what I can tell from your posts, you're
not a member of that group.
Go ahead and cry "whiners!" all you want. It's just an attempt to badger
people into silence over an issue that brings you discomfort, and well it
should.
jps
Eisboch
>
>
> Go ahead and cry "whiners!" all you want. It's just an attempt to badger
> people into silence over an issue that brings you discomfort, and well it
> should.
>
> jps
>
Seems to me you are living with far more discomfort than most of the rest of
us, since you are doing most of the complaining.
Eisboch
Skipper
> trash@thedump wrote:
>> Go ahead and cry "whiners!" all you want. It's just an attempt to badger
>> people into silence over an issue that brings you discomfort, and well it
>> should.
> Seems to me you are living with far more discomfort than most of the rest of
> us, since you are doing most of the complaining.
Bien au contraire, the NG prize for most discomfort over election
results must go to Harry Krause.
--
Skipper
John Gaquin
>(surely, you'll grant the
> dems the opportunity to bitch and moan after the reps witchhunt of Clinton
> for his sexual escapades,
Bucking for that Fiction Writer's Award again? That's an old can of worms
to dig up. Nobody gives a s&*t about BJs in the office! Happens all the
time! Bill was impeached, as well he should have been, because he stared
the country or the Congress in the eye on seventeen separate occasions and
knowingly and willfully lied to them on substantive legal matters. Period.
Remember in grade school, or Jr High -- there were always some kids that
would screw off, and when they got a piss poor grade on a test, they'd cry
"the teacher screwed me!" Amazing how you can clarify a lot of left-wing
politics by comparing it to circumstances where immaturity and
irresponsibility rule the day.
Harry Krause
Doubtful. Many share my discomfort over these facts:
When Bill Clinton left office, we were in the midst of a minor,
correctable economic downtown.
Now, under Dubya the Stupid:
We're in a recession.
We've suffered the worst terrorist attacks in our history.
Under pretenses that look more false every day, we invaded a country,
killed thousands of its citizens and will leave a bigger mess than we found.
The deficit is growing enormous.
We have an absolute idiot occupying the White House, a dogmatic
simpleton who can't think abstractly, much less speak abstractly.
We've alienated dozens of our allies all over the world.
We've totally misjudged the dangers in the Korean peninsula.
We've eroded important civil liberties and turned the justice department
over to a right-wing religious lunatic.
Yeah, I am in discomfort over the fact that the Bush-shippers managed to
steal the 2000 presidential election. He's putting our wonderful country
in the dumpster.
Harry Krause
> "jps" <tr...@thedump.com> wrote in message
> news:valvfo4...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>(surely, you'll grant the
>> dems the opportunity to bitch and moan after the reps witchhunt of Clinton
>> for his sexual escapades,
>
> Bucking for that Fiction Writer's Award again? That's an old can of worms
> to dig up. Nobody gives a s&*t about BJs in the office! Happens all the
> time! Bill was impeached, as well he should have been, because he stared
> the country or the Congress in the eye on seventeen separate occasions and
> knowingly and willfully lied to them on substantive legal matters. Period.
>
Naw. It was the sex. The rest of it was Republicans covering up their
fear of sex.
Joe
> Doubtful. Many share my discomfort over these facts:
>
> When Bill Clinton left office, we were in the midst of a minor,
> correctable economic downtown.
>
You define a loss of almost a 50% in the NASDAQ before Bush took office a
"minor correctable economic downtown"?
Harry Krause
There's a bit more to the country's economic status than hyperinflated
stock prices.
Joe
> There's a bit more to the country's economic status than hyperinflated
> stock prices.
Like basing government "surpluses as far as the eye can see" on the capital
gains from such hyperinflated stock prices?
JB Gates
if Gore could have won his home state he would have won the election ???
What other pres. cand. ever loss his home state???
"Harry Krause" <harry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:H8ecnShUYqO...@comcast.com...
jps
>
> "jps" <tr...@thedump.com> wrote in message
> news:valvfo4...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> >(surely, you'll grant the
> > dems the opportunity to bitch and moan after the reps witchhunt of
Clinton
> > for his sexual escapades,
>
> Bucking for that Fiction Writer's Award again? That's an old can of worms
> to dig up. Nobody gives a s&*t about BJs in the office! Happens all the
> time! Bill was impeached, as well he should have been, because he stared
> the country or the Congress in the eye on seventeen separate occasions and
> knowingly and willfully lied to them on substantive legal matters.
Period.
Wow, there's some revisionist history for you. There were impeachment
proceedings but, as far as I know, when the vote was taken, the President
wasn't impeached because even the rabid Republicans realized this was a
trumped up political situation that was meant to make Clinton legislatively
impotent.
But you go ahead and remember it however you see fit.
jps
jps
news:%GDqa.38649$fG2....@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com...
I didn't start this thread but I'm prepared to argue the points. It does
make me uncomfortable since, although our countrymen don't seem to take it
seriously, the right for everyone to vote who is legally able to vote should
be able to without intimidation. No matter the party.
jps
Harry Krause
> come you are just a tired old fart haunting a boating newsgroup?
>
Why, to annoy dicks like you, of course.
Jack Goff
"Tim M" wrote:
> Harry Krause wrote:
> >There's a bit more to the country's economic status than hyperinflated
> >stock prices.
> Aside from a few of your boyz (like jps) who like to mimic their dada
> most folks around here think that you are pretty much the fool it seems.
> Don't think that just because you are very knowledgeable about boats
> and the like that it makes you any less of a fool.
>
Tim... get a grip...
Krause doesn't know much about boats! And he knows even less about running
a country...
Jack
.. if Krause responds he will reveal his perversion...
Jack Goff
"jps" <tr...@thedump.com> wrote:
> Wow, there's some revisionist history for you. There were impeachment
> proceedings but, as far as I know, when the vote was taken, the President
> wasn't impeached because even the rabid Republicans realized this was a
> trumped up political situation that was meant to make Clinton
legislatively
> impotent.
>
> jps
JPS.. you may want to go look up the legal meaning of "impeach". Before
there's any more "egg on your face". Yeah, you may want to look that up,
too.
<grin>
Jack
John Gaquin
>
> Wow, there's some revisionist history for you. There were impeachment
> proceedings but, as far as I know, when the vote was taken, the President
Read a book. Read the Constitution. Learn the meaning of words.
Clinton was impeached. On the record. In the history books. Forever.
Calif Bill
> Eisboch wrote:
> > "Jim" <Jam...@rpa.net> wrote in message
news:3EAA6D77...@rpa.net...
> >> The Election of 2000
> >
> > Two and a half years later, the whining continues
> > ..............................................
> >
> > Boat underway next week for the trip north. Wish I were going, but maybe
> > next time.
> >
> > Eisboch
> >
> >
>
> It's not whining, it's reporting of outright fraud, news that was
> reported before and at and after election time, but not as widely as it
> should have been. The Florida Republicans purged the voter lists of tens
> of thousands of men and women, the majority of whom would have voted for
> Democratic candidates.
The state of Florida was following the directives of the Federal Gov't.!
They were required to compile and send out the list. The local election
boards were supposed to check out the entries. Palm Beach, and Broward
(Democratic controlled election boards) failed to do the job! Blame the
locals and even the Federal gov't. The locals did not do their job, at
least in several counties and the Feds for requiring voters to be legal
voters.
Bill
>
jps
news:b8fga5$hku$3...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> Aside from a few of your boyz (like jps) who like to mimic their dada
> most folks around here think that you are pretty much the fool it seems.
> Don't think that just because you are very knowledgeable about boats
> and the like that it makes you any less of a fool.
Do you have anything of import to offer or just personal slags?
jps
jps
> In article <iWqdnQyYAua...@comcast.com>, Harry Krause
<harry...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> now jet-skiers, they annoy me!
Consider yourself a jet-skier as far as this newsgroup is concerned.
jps
> In article <%GDqa.38649$fG2....@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com>, "Eisboch"
<r_er...@bellsouthnot.net> wrote:
> Methinks he doesn't have much of a life.
Methinks you don't have a clue.
Things I did today:
Move a yard of potting soil from my truck to my planting beds in preparation
for my tomato starts.
Play basketball with my son.
Fix lunch for both kids.
Make arrangements to look at old rusty trailer for my whaler
Clean the truck bed.
Go to the gas station and fill 4 jerry cans with high octane to bring up the
octane in winterized fuel.
Deliver fuel to boat and empty into port tank.
Try out new comforter my wife found for the aft cabin bed.
Back to the gas station to refill jerry cans.
Go to marine chandlery to find a wiring harness for a jabsco searchlight.
Look at the old rusty trailer for my whaler and have a nice conversation
with the seller about the San Juan islands and property he owns.
Go home for dinner.
Watch the Mariners loose to the Tigers and Jazz beat the Kings.
Helf get the kids to bed.
I'm now going to watch the DVD of Fear and Loathing.
And, all the while I had time to contribute something to this newsgroup, not
simply fuck with people like you do.
How was your day little loser?
jps
jps
I stand corrected.
jps
jps
He was impeached by the House but not convicted by the Senate.
Even the Republicans realized it would be viewed as a historical joke to
convict a man for lying about his sexual dalliances under oath. For God's
sake, Newt Gingrich, Speaker of the House and signer of the declarations of
impeachment told his wife he was leaving her while she battled cancer in the
hospital.
It'll be seen as a political witch hunt.
jps
Gould 0738
>if Gore could have won his home state he would have won the election ???
>What other pres. cand. ever loss his home state???
Abraham Lincoln, if memory serves me well.
JB Gates
"Gould 0738" <goul...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030427032222...@mb-m05.aol.com...
Gould 0738
Not sure. Just offering a bit of trivia. There may be some, depending how you
define "modern day".
It's not important anyway.
thunder
> I guess Bush fixxed it so Gore would lose his home state too.
Maybe:
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=10589
I'm not a Gore fan, but after watching the 2000 election coverage, I
was shocked at how sloppy our voting system works. In a normal
election, we throw out thousands of votes. In a close election,
voter fraud *could* be enough to make the difference. It seems to
me, both sides should be happy to fix this system. After an
election, it would be nice to *know* who won, no doubts, no excuses.
Gould 0738
>define "modern day".
>
>It's not important anyway.
Oops. Just checked my facts on this. Lincoln *did* carry Illinois in 1860. But
I remebered something was weird about the election- What was significant about
the 1860 election is that Lincoln garnered only 1.8 million popular votes, out
of 4.6 million votes cast. Certainly a lack of significant popular mandate.
Lincoln did receive more popular votes than any of the other parties on the
ballot, but one of the irregularities of the 1860 election (or maybe just
differences from a contemporary election) some of the *major* candidates were
just left off the ballot completely in a number of states. If you lived in one
state or another, you might not even have an opportunity to vote for the
candidate of your choice for POTUS (except as a write in).
The lack of anything close to a uniform slate of candidates reflects the fact
that prior to the 1860's, the federal government had less influence in a
person's daily affairs than the county and state governments did.The potential
rise of a monster federal government was one of the
many concerns expressed by secessionist
politicians at the time.
So Lincoln went into office with less than 40% popular support, but the
greatest number of votes. He did, however, totally mop the floor with his (3)
rivals in the electoral college-where we all know it really counts.
Without remarking on the election of 2000
(yet again), we have had a number of controversial and contentious elections in
the US in the past, including Abraham Lincoln (R), and we have survived just
fine.
At this point, with only a year to go before
serious campaigning for 2004 gets underway, both parties should be looking
forward and not backwards, IMO.
Skipper
> trash@thedump wrote:
>> Do you have anything of import to offer or just personal slags?
> you are the king of "personal slags" around here, well prince actually
> your daddy Krause is the king.
> I don't see you posting much in the way of boating related topics sonny boy.
> get a life.
Just killfile that dim bulb, Tim. He has nothing of consequence to
offer.
--
Skipper
jps
news:3EAC2FFE...@cox.net...
No, no Tim. Please don't killfile me. I'd really miss those inane
responses from the braintrust of you and Skippy.
jps
> In article <vamqr61...@corp.supernews.com>, "jps" <tr...@thedump.com>
wrote:
>
> >And, all the while I had time to contribute something to this newsgroup,
>
boats?
>
> not
> >simply fuck with people like you do.
> >
> >How was your day little loser?
>
>
>
> >jps
> >
> >
Wow, very convincing stuff you've got there. I guess you didn't do much
with your life yesterday, did you little man?
Get your own life, I've got one.
jps
Harry Krause
Did someone entrust Skipper and Tim with a brain? What a mistake...it'll
ossify for sure.
thunder
> Just killfile that dim bulb, Tim. He has nothing of consequence to
> offer.
Killfile another? Geez, after all these years, did you just figure
out how to use a killfile?
Harry Krause
Skipper hasn't killfiled anyone.
Jack Goff
"Harry Krause" <hakr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> > JPS trash@thedump wrote:
> > No, no Tim. Please don't killfile me. I'd really miss those inane
> > responses from the braintrust of you and Skippy.
> >
> Did someone entrust Skipper and Tim with a brain? What a mistake...it'll
> ossify for sure.
Isn't that sweet. Our two favorite half-wit libbies high-fiving each other
because working together they almost slammed someone. So heartwarming...
Jack
Harry Krause
Jackoff! Back from the land of flaccidity, eh?
Skipper
> Skipper hasn't killfiled anyone.
Well, I did do a Google review of those very few in my Bozofile on
Saturday. Results confirmed the original decision for all but two.
Suspect the file will only have six or so truly disruptive Bozos by next
Saturday.
--
Skipper
Harry Krause
If your "bozofile" truly contained "disruptive Bozos," like Abou ben
Adam, your name would lead all the rest. Over the years, you have been
the most disruptive poster in this newsgroup, and have been personally
responsible for ruining literally hundreds, if not thousands, of
interesting strings started by others.
Wouldn't you feel more comfy in one of the many "Aryan" newsgroups?
Skipper
> Over the years, you have been the most disruptive poster in this newsgroup,
> and have been personally responsible for ruining literally hundreds, if not
> thousands, of interesting strings started by others.
> Wouldn't you feel more comfy in one of the many "Aryan" newsgroups?
You are confusing disruptive with a keen BS antenna. It would have been
very easy for you to end the "Hatteras" and "lobsta boat" threads if
those boats really existed. As to your claims of boating
experience...well, those threads would have been short indeed if true.
Fact is you just don't pass the BS test, Krause.
--
Skipper
Harry Krause
> Harry Krause wrote:
>
>> Over the years, you have been the most disruptive poster in this newsgroup,
>> and have been personally responsible for ruining literally hundreds, if not
>> thousands, of interesting strings started by others.
>
>> Wouldn't you feel more comfy in one of the many "Aryan" newsgroups?
>
> You are confusing disruptive with a keen BS antenna. It would have been
> very easy for you to end the "Hatteras" and "lobsta boat" threads if
> those boats really existed.
It's much more fun to torment you, as I have been doing for these many
years.
There's nothing keen about you, Snippy. You're just a loser.
BTW, weren't you relocating to the West Coast and buying a trawler?
That was what, three to four years ago? No Greyhounds going out that way?
jps
> In article <vaoln38...@corp.supernews.com>, "jps" <tr...@thedump.com>
wrote:
>
> >Wow, very convincing stuff you've got there. I guess you didn't do much
> >with your life yesterday, did you little man?
> >
> >Get your own life, I've got one.
> >
> >jps
>
> do bozo.
>
> get a real life...
Gee thanks, coming from you it's so meaningful.
And how is it that you know me Tim?
jps
Harry Krause
> In article <vaolkns...@corp.supernews.com>, "jps" <tr...@thedump.com> wrote:
>
>>> Just killfile that dim bulb, Tim. He has nothing of consequence to
>>> offer.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Skipper
>>
>>
>>No, no Tim. Please don't killfile me. I'd really miss those inane
>>responses from the braintrust of you and Skippy.
>
to tie your shoes without a nurse.
jps
news:wiedndB2BPO...@comcast.com...
> jps wrote:
> > No, no Tim. Please don't killfile me. I'd really miss those inane
> > responses from the braintrust of you and Skippy.
> >
>
> Did someone entrust Skipper and Tim with a brain? What a mistake...it'll
> ossify for sure.
No, it wasn't a whole brain. They were each blessed with a half.
Unfortunately, due to overlap they still only amount to about 60% of a
functioning organ.
jps
Jack Goff
But earlier in the thread, Jack wrote:
".. if Krause responds he will reveal his perversion..."
...and now he has. Krause, you *will* go blind, you know?
Jack
jps
> In article <ioidnWV3VbH...@comcast.com>, Harry Krause
<hakr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Tim M wrote:
>
> >> at least Skippy and I are intelligent enough
> >
> >to tie your shoes without a nurse.
>
properly?
> junior seems to be struggling as of late.
>
> btw did you celebrate the May Day thingie in big way this year or did you
tone
> it down because of the war and all? nothing like a little father and son
> bonding activities eh?
Clearly bedtime for you Bonzo. Try to get a good night's sleep so you can
be on your tippy toes for tomorrow's usenet activities. I know it's the
high point in your day.
jps
> We know who you are and
> we know what you do jps...
>
> LOL
That's incredible since I've wrtten many times about what I do. Good thing
you can read, otherwise you'd be at a real disadvantage.
When you see the rest of "we" give them my regards.
Harry Krause
> and I know who u r
>
A veiled threat from a barely literate? Must be a Bush voter.
jps
news:b8mtd8$5ar$4...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> and I know who u r
You know I'm in the high tech business and you know I'm jps.
Way to go genius.
Jim
we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic
and servile but is morally treasonable to the American public,"
....Theodore Roosevelt
Real politics are not possible when people abdicate the responsibility
to think in favor of ideology, because ideology is always the enemy of
thought
--
Remove the numbers from my address to respond directly
Dennis Compton
> In article <%GDqa.38649$fG2....@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com>, "Eisboch"
<r_er...@bellsouthnot.net> wrote:
>
> >"jps" <tr...@thedump.com> wrote in message
> >news:valvfo4...@corp.supernews.com...
> >>
> >>
> >> Go ahead and cry "whiners!" all you want. It's just an attempt to badger
> >> people into silence over an issue that brings you discomfort, and well it
> >> should.
> >>
> >> jps
> >>
> >
> >Seems to me you are living with far more discomfort than most of the rest of
> >us, since you are doing most of the complaining.
> >
> >Eisboch
>
> And he just has to do that whining and complaining in a boating newsgroup
> all the time.
>
> Methinks he doesn't have much of a life.
He doesn't. He is the CFO, CEO, Treasurer, chief bottle washer and restroom cleaner of
a 2 bit two person computer software company who spends his entire day on a boating NG
making left wing political posts. He has not made any boating related contributions to
this NG. His MO is flaming and the frequent use of profanity.
He is nothing more than a double digit IQ dimwit...best that you just ignore him.
Harry Krause
Ahh...another thought-filled missive from Dennis Incompetent.
jps
> Dennis Compton wrote:
> >> Methinks he doesn't have much of a life.
> >
> > He doesn't. He is the CFO, CEO, Treasurer, chief bottle washer and
restroom cleaner of
> > a 2 bit two person computer software company who spends his entire day
on a boating NG
> > making left wing political posts. He has not made any boating related
contributions to
> > this NG. His MO is flaming and the frequent use of profanity.
> >
> > He is nothing more than a double digit IQ dimwit...best that you just
ignore him.
> >
>
> Ahh...another thought-filled missive from Dennis Incompetent.
He cannot stand the thought I might be successful and so he attempts to
disparage me without knowing a bit of the truth. This is the conservative
christian way, don't you know? "Trust in God first" as Dennis says and you
too may ascend to being a blind ass.
jps
Curtis CCR
As I have said before, your "off topic" posts are worse than the
average because you start almost all of your threads without a single
original thought. You just post something written by someone else.
If you are going to pollute the newsgroup with off topic bullshit, you
could at least create bullshit of your own.
Now your posting crap about the 2000 election? Jesus! In addition to
being a bandwidth abuser, you're a crybaby. Get over it.
jps
news:b8pk1m$4ad$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> In article <vauofs2...@corp.supernews.com>, "jps" <tr...@thedump.com>
wrote:
>
>
> >"Trust in God first" as Dennis says and you
> >too may ascend to being a blind ass.
>
>
> that would figure....
I thought you said you knew me. Clearly, you know little about me.
Given your response, I suspect you're a conservative christian since you
think my reaction to Dennis indicates being an atheist. I'm just not stupid
enough to put blind faith into a man-made social structure. I do believe in
a form of God but it's closer to the cosmic muffin than the hairy thunderer
you likely embrace.
Why don't you tell us a little about your "faith."
jps
Joe
structure.>
Now that made me laugh.
-rick-
"Tim M." wrote...
> so are you an atheist too? asides from being a socialist jackass?
>
> that would figure....
What's wrong with being an atheist?
-rick-
jps
news:b8q8il$hu4$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
> In article <lW-dnQH9bc5...@comcast.com>, "-rick-"
>
> check back with me in the next life and let me know how it turned out...
Hate to tell you this but...this is it Timmy.
Enjoy it while you can.
Harry Krause
>
> check back with me in the next life and let me know how it turned out...
>
>
We checked, Tim. Luckily for you, you come back as a slug, which for you
is a step up.
-rick-
"jps" wrote:
> >Hate to tell you this but...this is it Timmy.
>
"Tim M." wrote...
> really? do you have absolute proof of this?
The more relevant question is do you have any evidence that there is
anything outside of this universe let alone your favorite mythology?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and it is you that is
positing the existence of something.
-rick-
-rick-
> >Hate to tell you this but...this is it Timmy.
>
> really? do you have absolute proof of this?
The more relevant question is what evidence do you have that there is
anything outside of this universe let alone your favorite sky-daddy
Gould 0738
>based on your faith in nothing.
>
>what have you to lose by believing in God? you lose nothing by believing but
>you have everything to gain from it. for if you are correct then you have
>eternal life and heaven. and if you are incorrect then you have lost
>nothing.
>
>but -- you stand to lose everything by
>by being an athiest. and there is nothing to gain. because if you are right
>as an athiest what will you have really achieved? nothing that would be
>meaningful to a dead person without a soul. and if you are wrong then poor
>poor you. you will have lost everything.
>
>so why would somebody so blindly wager their eternal destiny on half-baked
>notions that are not at least an even push? it isn't even logical. stay away
>
>from vegas guy. you would do well to stay home.
>
>the "evidence" is all around you, remove your blinders and see.
>
>"So inbred is man's hostility and rebellion against God that they would
>rather
>risk their eternal destiny on idiocy than come to their senses and bend their
>
>knee in the face of a gracious but omnipotent creator." -- Gregory Koukl
This argument seems to posit religion as
some sort of fire insurance policy! But it's OK- it only has to work for the
believer.
That's why religious belief makes such poor fodder for public discussion.
Everybody is absolutely convinced thier personal understanding of the Universal
Master Soul, (or however diety is individually understood) is correct for
everybody else. Those who are emotionally committed, rather than intellectually
conviced, are immune to reason, logic, and objective discourse.
We shouldn't forget that atheism is a belief system, (atheists *believe* there
is no God), and therefore falls under the general heading of a religion, as
well.
jps
news:b8uqah$jbo$2...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
I would prefer to be the slug.
Methinks you got your wish one life early.
jps
news:b8vvqb$n0l$1...@slb9.atl.mindspring.net...
> what have you to lose by believing in God?
The sense that you have only one chance to do it well.
If you're a man of reason, you'd be foolish to believe in an afterlife since
no one has any proof it exists. "Look all around you" doesn't hold up in
the real world.
So, ff the shoe fits...
jps
jps
"Tim M." <tim...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b8vvqb$n0l$1...@slb9.atl.mindspring.net...
> you lose nothing by believing but
> you have everything to gain from it.
because only those who believe will be let in? which ones are they, the
evangelicals or the catholics? surely you don't believe they'll all get in,
do you?
> for if you are correct then you have
> eternal life and heaven. and if you are incorrect then you have lost
nothing.
Just the sense of self responsibility.
> but -- you stand to lose everything by
> by being an athiest. and there is nothing to gain. because if you are
right
> as an athiest what will you have really achieved? nothing that would be
> meaningful to a dead person without a soul. and if you are wrong then
poor
> poor you. you will have lost everything.
because only those who "believe" will be there. just like Dorothy tapping
those shoes together.
> so why would somebody so blindly wager their eternal destiny on half-baked
> notions that are not at least an even push?
I think "blindly wager" is the key phrase here for that is exactly what
you're doing.
it isn't even logical. stay away
> from vegas guy. you would do well to stay home.
You are the vegas guy 'cause you're betting on something which you have no
proof exists.
> the "evidence" is all around you, remove your blinders and see.
Oooooooooo, cosmic man!!!
> "So inbred is man's hostility and rebellion against God that they would
rather
> risk their eternal destiny on idiocy than come to their senses and bend
their
> knee in the face of a gracious but omnipotent creator." -- Gregory Koukl
the omnipotent creator is the elemental ooze we all grew from billions of
years ago. if you "believe" otherwise, you deserve everything you get --
which will, of course, be nothing.
but, you won't be disappointed because you won't know the difference. you
won't have the chance to come back and correct your lifetime of
self-delusion. you'll be on your way back to the ooze from whence you came.
jps
John Gaquin
> years ago. if you "believe" otherwise, you deserve everything you get --
> which will, of course, be nothing.
>
> but, you won't be disappointed because you won't know the difference. you
> won't have the chance to come back and correct your lifetime of
> self-delusion. you'll be on your way back to the ooze from whence you
came.
>
My God, you sound so profound and sophisticated when you speak that way!
Shall we all remind ourselves that after two plus years of philistine
political rants, you recently revealed that you didn't even understand the
meaning of impeachment?
Is your understanding of bio-evolutionary philosophy equally
"unimpeachable" ?
Hmmmm....
jps
news:UkRsa.35427$D%4.3...@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
Will I be carry the burden of misunderstanding "impeachment" as being
convicted rather that simply accused? I'm sure you'll make it a point.
I don't think bio-evolution is a philosophy. But I'm probably just as
confused about that as impeachment, eh?
jps
jps
news:0dn7bv0jth98mve59...@4ax.com...
> Going out on the final sea trial in about an hour or so. The first one
> resulted in a conked out starboard engine. It was a fuel filter.
>
> Life is good.
>
> If you want a cool Flag screensaver from Microsoft....
>
>
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=6F74
80BF-3DEE-4A28-ADE1-419F09E2C394
> --
> WaIIy --> reply to: eIvez<!>mindspring<!>com
Hope all turns out well Wally. You'll be among the few, the proud, the
financially challenged. Oh, what a joy it will be to be a Tolly owner!
jps
jps
news:UkRsa.35427$D%4.3...@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> Shall we all remind ourselves that after two plus years of philistine
> political rants,
How kind of you to notice.
Jack Goff
"John Gaquin" <john....@verizon.net> wrote:
> "jps" <tr...@thedump.com> wrote some trash...
<snip>
>
> My God, you sound so profound and sophisticated when you speak that way!
>
> Shall we all remind ourselves that after two plus years of philistine
> political rants, you recently revealed that you didn't even understand the
> meaning of impeachment?
jps... can you say DOH!! I knew you could... heh heh heh.
Jack
Harry Krause
> wallow in your ignorance for all to see. your mind is hopelessly warped.
> krause evidently taught you well little man.
>
>
>
>
>
There's nothing quite so pitiful as ignorant, smug, self-satisfied
right-wing trash.
JB Gates
Harry Krause
Ahhh...another of the Konservatrash chimes in with a display of
double-digit IQ.
Harry Krause
Naw. I'm moderate. Chuck Gould is left wing. Ask him.
socialist
Naw. I have no problem with socialists, at least the Scandanavian ones,
but I'm not a socialist.
, elitest
Guilty.
, anti-hunting
Guilty.
PETA
> member
Nope. No interest in PETA. I fish, remember?
though krause. and I am sure that most decent folks would
> agree.
You don't have the cognitive powers to understand the concept of decent.
>
> how much time do you spend whining and looking up stuff to post about
> President Bush krause?
A couple of minutes a day. It's easy to find. He's an idiot.
too bad you can't get over his election
He wasn't elected. He was appointed.
are you a turd burglar as well?
No...that's the right wing's rice bowel.
jps
> the funny part is how you and your left-wing socialist ilk accuse
> conservatives of being cold and indifferent all the time.
Funnier yet is your godmates going to church on Sunday looking for
absolution of sin while they screw people all week long. Your bedmates like
Billy Graham's son Franklin suggesting, among other things, that terrorism
is part of "mainstream" Islam is just one current example of religion gone
astray. Now he wants to send his missionaries in to do "God's work" in
Iraq.
Further, I've just come to find that Jesus is the exclusive agent of God and
you're simply not going to heaven unless you're signed up with the right
team. Sort of like playing for the Yankees. I guess there's only a few
folks who're gonna be lucky enough to make that team. And Tim, I'm sure
you're all signed up. You'll be up there with all those fine
evangelicals -- eternity with a bunch of self righteous idiots. I choose
worm castings over spending eternity with that lot.
But you Tim, you have the right to think of yourself as a tool of God.
That's right, go ahead and look in the mirror and say: "I'm a tool."
> I wonder
> what it took to build up so much callousness and hate for you
> to lock out your heart from God?
More people have died violent death in the name of "God" than any other
reason. It's man-made, a neccessity in controlling large populations by
promising a direct connection to the creator off heaven and hell. If you
can convince yourself that George Bush has the greater good in mind for his
fellow citizens, I think you've probably had a much easier time talking
yourself into "faith."
> again, it's your loss. chuckle in your perceived superior education,
> intellect and wisdom if you must but...
Indeed, and you're free to fool yourself for the rest of your existence here
on earth. You're part of Plato's matrix , may you enjoy the membership.
jps
jps
> In article <vbejrhd...@corp.supernews.com>, "jps" <tr...@thedump.com>
wrote:
>
> >"Tim M." <tim...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:b9227u$qg0$2...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
> >
> >> the funny part is how you and your left-wing socialist ilk accuse
> >> conservatives of being cold and indifferent all the time.
> >
> >Funnier yet is your godmates going to church on Sunday looking for
> >absolution of sin while they screw people all week long.
>
> making an "all inclusive" statement concerning democrats. now here you
> are doing much the same thing. you can be quit the hypocrite.
Oh really. Read three paragraphs up mr kettle black.
but as far
> as your statement above such is human nature, you cannot tell me that
> 'a lot' of atheists and your fellow left-wing socialist ilk don't 'often'
do
> the same. I am sure that you know that cannot possibly lump everybody
> who goes to church on Sundays into the category of 'screwing people all
> week long". if you believe that then you are a complete idiot.
I don't think all who attend church screw people. Many certainly do. Take
the entire administration and the dweebs in congress. They'd like you to
believe the common man is going to benefit by the Bush tax cuts. It's a big
lie and everyone knows it. Further, no one cares because the rich
constituents who make up their election committees are a hell of a lot more
important than the populations they represent.
How many of those lying assholes are seen in church each week? I'll bet
most of them.
> > Your bedmates like
> >Billy Graham's son Franklin suggesting, among other things, that
terrorism
> >is part of "mainstream" Islam is just one current example of religion
gone
> >astray. Now he wants to send his missionaries in to do "God's work" in
> >Iraq.
>
> I don't follow Billy Graham or his son. And what exactly does man and his
> man-made problems have to do with the notion of a Creator anyhow? Does
> the likes of Billy Graham (or even the likes of you) invalidate a Creator?
Perhaps you should follow the statements of Franklin Graham since he's the
one who swore Bush into office and has been the author of many inflammitory
statements and speeches against Islam.
Also, I hate to break this to you this but the "creator" is a man made
concept.
> >Further, I've just come to find that Jesus is the exclusive agent of God
and
> >you're simply not going to heaven unless you're signed up with the right
> >team. Sort of like playing for the Yankees. I guess there's only a few
> >folks who're gonna be lucky enough to make that team. And Tim, I'm sure
> >you're all signed up. You'll be up there with all those fine
> >evangelicals -- eternity with a bunch of self righteous idiots. I choose
> >worm castings over spending eternity with that lot.
>
> So young and so full of anger, sad really...
Are you a member of the exclusive team or not Tim? Simply sidestepping my
point? Do you subscribe to the exclusive club or not Tim? Will Buddhists,
Taoists, Jews, Catholics and followers of Islam be let into your heavenly
domain if they don't accept Jesus as their saviour?
> >But you Tim, you have the right to think of yourself as a tool of God.
> >That's right, go ahead and look in the mirror and say: "I'm a tool."
>
> better to be a tool than a basket case son...
You are indeed a tool. You call me "son" in order to prop yourself up.
Forget it Timmy, it doesn't work.
> >> I wonder
> >> what it took to build up so much callousness and hate for you
> >> to lock out your heart from God?
> >
> >More people have died violent death in the name of "God" than any other
> >reason.
>
> That isn't God's fault now is it?
No, it's the people's fault who practice it and use it against others. If
it's caused more death than any other cause, I'd say that's pretty good
evidence of disease.
jps
> I don't follow Billy Graham or his son. And what exactly does man and his
> man-made problems have to do with the notion of a Creator anyhow? Does
> the likes of Billy Graham (or even the likes of you) invalidate a Creator?
Here you go Timmy. Learn about your community of christians.
May 8, 2003
Top Evangelicals Critical of Colleagues Over Islam
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
WASHINGTON, May 7 - Evangelical leaders meeting here today denounced as
"dangerous" and "unhelpful" the anti-Islam remarks made in the last year by
leaders in their own movement and proposed new guidelines for churches to
follow in relating to Muslims.
At the same time, the religious leaders reaffirmed their commitment to
proselytizing, and they accused mainline Protestants and groups like the
World Council of Churches of holding "naïve" dialogue sessions with Muslims
that minimized theological and political differences.
The meeting came at a time when Christian leaders are deeply divided over
whether their goal should be to coexist with Muslims or to convert them. It
was convened by the National Association of Evangelicals, which represents
43,000 congregations, and the Institute on Religion and Democracy, a
conservative Christian group in Washington that often critiques mainline
Protestantism.
Ted Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, and
pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, said to the 40 leaders
attending today, "Since we are in a global community, no doubt about it, we
must temper our speech and we must communicate primarily through actions."
It has been more than a year since major evangelical leaders, like the Rev.
Franklin Graham, the Rev. Jerry Falwell and the Rev. Jerry Vines, past
president of the Southern Baptist Convention, began publicly branding Islam,
or Islam's prophet Muhammad, as inherently evil and violent.
Mr. Graham, son of the evangelist Billy Graham and head of a global missions
agency, Samaritan's Purse, said last year that Islam was "a very evil and
wicked religion." Mr. Vines described Muhammad as "a demon-possessed
pedophile."
The evangelical leaders here today issued what one of them called a "loving
rebuke" to their colleagues for remarks that they said tarnished American
Christians and jeopardized the safety of missionaries and indigenous
Christians in predominantly Muslim countries.
Dr. Clive Calver, president of World Relief, the relief and development
agency of the National Association of Evangelicals, told the group, "It's
very dangerous to build more barriers when we're supposed to be following
one who pulled the barriers down," a reference to Jesus.
In an interview, Dr. Calver said that when he was working recently in the
Mideast with Muslim members of the Red Crescent relief agency, Mr. Graham's
comments were circulating widely.
"It's used to indict all Americans and used to indict all Christians," said
Dr. Calver, who is British. "It obviously puts lives and livelihoods of
people overseas at risk."
None of the evangelical or Protestant leaders who were criticized attended
the meeting today.
Sayyid M. Syeed, secretary general of the Islamic Society of North America,
said in a telephone interview that he welcomed the evangelicals' statements
and encouragement of interfaith dialogue - even the emphasis on sharing the
gospel with Muslims.
"I don't have any problem with that because interfaith dialogue does not
mean diluting the individual traditions of the different faiths," Mr. Syeed
said. "All it means is that we respect each other's world view."
Those here said that they did not want to undermine the missionary work of
their fellow evangelicals and that they would soon convene a session with
those they had criticized.
A spokesman for Mr. Graham said that he was in San Diego for a mission led
by his father and could not be reached for comment.
Mr. Falwell, reached by telephone, said that he regretted saying in a "60 Mi
nutes" interview last year that he had concluded after reading books on
Islam that "Muhammad was a terrorist."
He said he was unhappy to learn of today's event only through calls from
reporters, but supported the evangelical leaders' call to temper the
language on Islam.
"In this media-sensitive world, we must be cautious that we walk a tightrope
that does not allow offending others while at the same time never
compromising what we believe," Mr. Falwell said. "At the same time we cannot
expect hundreds of thousands of evangelical church leaders to go silent when
somebody asks what they think about any religion, just because those
religions might kill their missionaries."
The guidelines for churches proposed today are notable for urging
evangelicals, who have not made a priority of interfaith dialogue, to
interact more with Muslims. But the guidelines promote a fundamentally
different approach to interfaith relations than that used by mainline
Protestant groups.
The evangelicals emphasize that Christians should use dialogue sessions with
Muslims to "give testimony to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, because it is our
duty to do so." The guidelines also urge Christians to use dialogue to spell
out the differences between Christianity and Islam, and to call Muslims to
account for the lack of religious freedom in Muslim countries.
Alan F. H. Wisdom, vice president of the Institute on Religion and
Democracy, who drafted the guidelines, said that much of the dialogue that
Christians carried on with Muslims across the United States after Sept. 11,
2001, was motivated by "a genuine, perhaps naïve wish to be reassured that
they don't all hate us."
Mr. Wisdom said, "There has been the tendency to put reconciliation above
witness to the truth here."
Responding to the criticism in a telephone interview, Dr. Robert Edgar,
general secretary of the National Council of Churches, which represents
mainline Protestants and Orthodox denominations and frequently engages in
dialogue with Muslims, said that he agreed that each faith must not dilute
its own distinctions.
But Dr. Edgar said: "We disagree that you can't have dialogue unless you
talk about Jesus. My belief is that dialogue is best built on relationships.
People have to get to know each other, to trust each other, to like each
other, and in some cases to even love each other before real learning and
listening takes place."