Bayliner Quality Construction
Skipper
--
Skipper
JR North
tapping screws they mount everything with?
JR
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
Skipper
> Skipper wrote:
>> Quality construction for the smaller Bayliners:
> Does quality construction mean they don't strip out the self
> tapping screws they mount everything with?
The URL and Bayliner's position as World's sales leader for over three
decades speak for themselves. Bayliner has introduced more folks into
recreational boating than all their competitors combined. Did you find
the layup schedule informative or are you just out to bash Bayliners?
--
Skipper
Skipper
> Skipper wrote:
>> Quality construction for the smaller Bayliners:
> Does quality construction mean they don't strip out the self
> tapping screws they mount everything with?
Really think you should reread the referenced URL. It stated:
"Lifetime guaranteed hardware and deck fittings are through-bolted for
added strength and safety."
"Bayliner installs Perko cleats, chocks and other deck fittings. PerkoŽ
one of the best-known and most respected names in marine hardware,
offers a *lifetime guarantee* on every one. Moreover, deck hardware is
through-bolted with stainless steel hardware, secured with stout backing
blocks and fastened with aircraft-type locknuts. All deck fittings are
bedded in sealant to eliminate leaks."
What more do you want in deck fittings, JR North? And please *do* note
Harry's silence on this issue...finally!
--
Skipper
Harry Krause
It's kind of fun watching you make an idiot of yourself on a continuous
basis, Snipper. There are many message strings these days on which I
offer no comment, mainly because the posters are so absurd, they need no
help from me to point out the flaccidity of their thinking.
To maintain its position at the bottom of the quality list, even
Bayliner has had to make incremental improvements in its products and
how they are equipped.
Your boat, for example, does not have "through-bolted" "stainless steel"
deck hardware. The deck hardware on your boat is chrome-plated zinc, a
clearly inferior product.
Why did Bayliner move from zinc to stainless steel on some of its boats?
Because of pressure from other low-priced lines, most of which offer
quality superior.
Many of the areas of Bayliner inferiority continue to this day. Changes
have been made in some areas. But as of a year ago, Bayliner was still
using unpainted ordinary plywood in its smaller boats.
It seems fitting that you, the fellow who knows nothing about boats and
whose own Bayliner has sat virtually unused in a storage shed for 12-13
years, is rec.boat's flack for cheapness and mediocrity.
Perhaps after you sell that p.o.s. you have up for sale, you'll move on
to make an idiot of yourself in some other newsgroup. You've used up
your lack of usefulness here.
Bayliner is crap. So are you.
--
* * *
email sent to etaoin...@hotmail.com will *never* get to me.
Skipper
>>> Does quality construction mean they don't strip out the self
>>> tapping screws they mount everything with?
>> Really think you should reread the referenced URL. It stated:
>> "Lifetime guaranteed hardware and deck fittings are through-bolted for
>> added strength and safety."
>> "Bayliner installs Perko cleats, chocks and other deck fittings. PerkoŽ
>> one of the best-known and most respected names in marine hardware,
>> offers a *lifetime guarantee* on every one. Moreover, deck hardware is
>> through-bolted with stainless steel hardware, secured with stout backing
>> blocks and fastened with aircraft-type locknuts. All deck fittings are
>> bedded in sealant to eliminate leaks."
>> What more do you want in deck fittings, JR North? And please *do* note
>> Harry's silence on this issue...finally!
> It's kind of fun watching you make an idiot of yourself on a continuous
> basis, Snipper. ... Your boat, for example, does not have "through-bolted"
> "stainless steel" deck hardware.
Incorrect.
--
Skipper
Skipper
>>> Quality construction for the smaller Bayliners:
>> I am just really impressed with this URL.
> ROFLMAO.......
Hey, Eugene, take a look at numero siete of companies that suck.
http://www.sealicemanor.com/suckco.htm
--
Skipper
Marshall Banana
> The URL and Bayliner's position as World's sales leader for over three
> decades speak for themselves.
Budweiser has been the world's sales leader for decades. It's still
pisswater though.
Dan
--
It's good to drink. It's good to laugh. But try to both at the same time
and you'll pay through the nose.
R Kelly
your rubrail and have a 'look-see' at what holds your BL together. Oh... I'm
sorry... it IS the rubrail.
BK
"JR North" <jason...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3EE14643...@bigfoot.com...
R Kelly
news:3EE145CB...@cox.net...
BL builds a good boat for the buck and like anything; you get what you pay
for. I don't think anyone could deny that BL sells a ton of boats based on
price. I'm not bashing that at all, because this is good for boating in
general. If boating is affordable by purchasing a Bayliner (as compared to
other recreational sports) and a Bayliner gets people out on the water, we
all 'win'. But before you go tooting your horn about Bayliner being the
"world leader in sales for three decades", educate yourself by studying the
marketing demographics of who buys a Bayliner.
In terms of "new" boats purchased answer me this. 'Who' has the majority
"recreational boat" (18' - 25' LOA ) market-share in the ""30 to 50 year-old
Male, married with 2+ kids"" demographic? What two brands are market share
leaders of all new boats purchased by owners having 5+ years of
'on-the-water' ownership experience? What are the top three brands with
boaters having 10+ years of ownership, regardless of age? What two brands
have more repeat purchase loyalty by double digits? What single brand has
the market share majority of all "age" and "sex" demographics when personal
income is 75-100K annually? And lastly, why are those demographic benchmarks
so valuable to any boat builder?
Hint for ya pal.. none of the leaders in those demographics are Bayliner.
But, there's no knocking BL for this because they do a GREAT job carving out
their marketing niches. They saw a need and filled it well by offering an
affordable boat for those who don't have the desire, means or commitment to
invest ( ahem... SPEND ) more on buying a boat. After all, Skip. For those
of us who actually USE our boats we discovered long ago that buying the damn
thing is just a fraction of the expense of ownership. But this aside, let's
get back to your question. Yes.... I did find your post informative. I
didn't know that BL made their hull even cheaper by using chop-board instead
of FG lay-ups. Of course, it's only on the smaller hulls (wink).
Now, I have to say something not so "nice" and it's not about Bayliners.. It
's about 'you", Dave. Although I try an avoid 'personal' stuff here, in
reviewing our posts about my point on the 'chine deflection' a NG member
emailed me to talk about my points, and we discussed over several days how I
calculated chine deflection angles. He pointed out that I assumed wrong
because I was using Zero-run angle. He also pointed out some places I should
look at before I got into any serious discussion with you about things
'nautical'. I took the suggestion because I know this person. And, after
looking over many of the posts and cross-posts from you about your "boat"
and your boating experiences, I concluded that you are a wanna-be "skipper";
not much more than a small man with a small boat and a smaller mind, who
likes to wax nautical from the wind-swept planes of freaking Kansas. You're
quick to tell us all about things you have never done in places you have
never been based on expertise from cut-and-paste Internet information. Hey,
I like a good spirited exchange of opinion better than anyone, but all this
time I thought you had a freaking 'clue' about what you were talking about.
I was saddened this morning (and sincerely so) to find out that all your
experiences could be more than a little factually challenged. But, what the
Hell...you talk a good line and the 'attitude' with which you write reminds
me of the cocky tilt of a Massachusetts long-linesman. The only difference
is that the long-linesman gets more nautical experience at Dry-Dock for one
month compared to what you have seen in your boating life. But, I'll give
you credit for having the balls it takes to represent yourself differently.
Hence, you have earned the name "Skipper" in my book.
BK
Harry Krause
Moreover, deck hardware is
>>> through-bolted with stainless steel hardware, secured with stout backing
>>> blocks and fastened with aircraft-type locknuts. All deck fittings are
>>> bedded in sealant to eliminate leaks."
>
>>> What more do you want in deck fittings, JR North? And please *do* note
>>> Harry's silence on this issue...finally!
Harry Krause wrote:
>
>> It's kind of fun watching you make an idiot of yourself on a continuous
>> basis, Snipper. ... Your boat, for example, does not have "through-bolted"
>> "stainless steel" deck hardware.
>
Skipper wrote:
> Incorrect.
>
Oh? Did you finally replace the chrome-plated zinc hardware your boat
cmae with with something better? What? plastic? And how about those
lovely pop rivets that hold the deck onto the hull? Have they all popped?
Your one-man crusade on behalf of what you belive to be "Bayliner
quality" must be the longest-playing comedy routine in rec.boats.
BTW, did you actually complete the sale of yours? If you're boatless,
you'll remain that way. Why not move on down the road, so to speak, and
pester some other newsgroup.
How about "alt.rec.plastic.knees"
JohnH
If Bayliner has solved the blistering problem, then why do they
exclude in their warranty --
Window damage or breakage;
Rainwater leakage, including rainwater leakage through convertible
tops;
Damage or deterioration of cosmetic surface finishes, including
cracking,
crazing, discoloration, air voids, fading or oxidation of gel coat,
wood
finishes (varnishes, stains and paints), fabrics, vinyls, plastics,
trim tape,
plated or painted metal, stainless steel finishes, anti-fouling bottom
paint,
or zinc anodes;
Hull blisters that form below the waterline;
Seems to me that the above problems must exist and be known if they
are to be specifically excluded from the '10 year warranty".
John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
JohnH
If Bayliner has solved the blistering problem, then why do they
Skipper
>>>> Quality construction for the smaller Bayliners:
>>> Does quality construction mean they don't strip out the self
>>> tapping screws they mount everything with?
>> The URL and Bayliner's position as World's sales leader for over three
>> decades speak for themselves. Bayliner has introduced more folks into
>> recreational boating than all their competitors combined. Did you find
>> the layup schedule informative or are you just out to bash Bayliners?
> I don't think anyone could deny that BL sells a ton of boats based on
> price. I'm not bashing that at all, because this is good for boating in
> general. If boating is affordable by purchasing a Bayliner (as compared to
> other recreational sports) and a Bayliner gets people out on the water, we
> all 'win'. But before you go tooting your horn about Bayliner being the
> "world leader in sales for three decades", educate yourself by studying
> the marketing demographics of who buys a Bayliner. ...
> I was saddened this morning (and sincerely so) to find out that all your
> experiences could be more than a little factually challenged. But, what
> the Hell...you talk a good line and the 'attitude' with which you write
> reminds me of the cocky tilt of a Massachusetts long-linesman.
Very clever how you changed the topic from a discussion about Bayliner
chine angles affect on roll reduction to a direct bash on Bayliner and
myself. Suppose that means you accept the position that your assertion
that the SLH form induces roll and wallow is "factually challenged". As
to your assertion that my trip reports are factually challenged, I can
only assume you are one of those East Coast railbirds who does not have
real boating experiences with which to relate. Where do you do your
boating, and what kind?
--
Skipper
Harry Krause
>
more than a little factually challenged.
Yes, that would describe you to a "tee."
> As
> to your assertion that my trip reports are factually challenged, I can
> only assume you are one of those East Coast railbirds who does not have
> real boating experiences with which to relate. Where do you do your
> boating, and what kind?
How many hours on the engine of that p.o.s. Bilgeliner you have for
sale, Snipper? 200?
You're probably the least-experienced person who posts here and claims
to be a regular boat.
You're in no position to criticize the boating experiences of others,
since you barely have any of your own.
Oh, and your Bayliner 22xx? In a seaway, it rolls back and forth like a
bowling ball...a real puke-maker offshore.
Skipper
>> As to your assertion that my trip reports are factually challenged, I
>> can only assume you are one of those East Coast railbirds who does not
>> have real boating experiences with which to relate. Where do you do your
>> boating, and what kind?
> You're in no position to criticize the boating experiences of others,
> since you barely have any of your own.
You can find several of my trip reports and boating experiences from 50
years of boating in the Google archives, Krause. Where can we find
yours? You know what I mean, those reports that would be deemed more
than just a 'spinner' across the local pond in mighty 2' seas for
crabcakes.
--
Skipper
Harry Krause
> Harry Krause wrote:
>
>>> As to your assertion that my trip reports are factually challenged, I
>>> can only assume you are one of those East Coast railbirds who does not
>>> have real boating experiences with which to relate. Where do you do your
>>> boating, and what kind?
>
>> You're in no position to criticize the boating experiences of others,
>> since you barely have any of your own.
>
> You can find several of my trip reports and boating experiences from 50
> years of boating in the Google archives,
Your "trip reports" are no proof that you've ever splashed a boat in the
water.
How many hours on your boat so far this year?
How many last year?
How many total?
When's the last time you had that 22' Bayliner in the Atlantic or
Pacific Oceans?
I'd bet a few bucks you've got maybe a couple hundred hours on that
Bayliner, if that many.
You like the idea of boating, but you don't do much of it.
Skipper
>>> You're in no position to criticize the boating experiences of others,
>>> since you barely have any of your own.
>> You can find several of my trip reports and boating experiences from 50
>> years of boating in the Google archives, Krause. Where can we find
>> yours? You know what I mean, those reports that would be deemed more
>> than just a 'spinner' across the local pond in mighty 2' seas for
>> crabcakes.
> Your "trip reports" are no proof that you've ever splashed a boat in the
> water.
Oh, so that's where we can find the Krause trip reports.
--
Skipper
Put Name Here
experience, type of boat etc., but never answers any of the similar
questions posed by others.
It is obvious that he does not have any recent boating experience, and is
forced into baiting others in here for his adventure.
"Harry Krause" <etaoin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Fr2cnaQ7J9y...@comcast.com...
Harry Krause
That's right, Skipper. While you're faking "trip reports," we're out on
the water, boating. We're heading out tomorrow morning, if the weather
is halfway decent. What are *your* boating plans for tomorrow...floating
your yellow rubber ducky in the tubby-tub-tub?
I'm simply not interested in putting up long posts here or in any other
newsgroup, Snippy, unless I am suffering through some sort of technical
problem that requires a detailed explanation so that someone
knowledgeable can provide an answer. Frankly, I don't even read longer
posts in newsgroups. Most of them are horribly written or formatted or
both, and I feel no compulsion to read bad writing, especially that
emanating from amateurs like you who think they can turn a phrase. Let
me tell you in all candor: your writing stinks.
And, once again, I state that the fact that you pollute this newsgroup
with occasional "trip reports" does not mean that you were a participant
on the trip.
--
Harry Krause
I don't believe Skipper has had *any* boating adventures worthy of note,
and I think that Bayliner of his has spent most of every boating season
in his driveway or a storage shed.
My guess is that Skipper reads about someone else's boating adventures
in newsgroups or magazines, and then rewrites them - in his lousy style
- so as to make it appear he has taken the trip.
--
Jim
I saw a 12 volt tv advertised at Muntz for a good price. Took newspaper
ad to Circuit City first, as Muntz is a long drive, and Circuit City
guarentees to meet or beat advertised prices. Price was $275/175.
Considerable amount of difference.
Circuit city would not meet the price. Infact they refused to say
anything other than, "we can't meet that price". Left me standing
there.
So much for their guarentee.
Anyone from Circuit City want to tackle this? I thought not.
Wayne B
<ewke...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>Maybe I missed something in this guys post, but it looks like he is
>unhappy with Mariner Marine of Jupiter, FL. If he has a complaint
>with Grady-White he should be talking to people in NC not FL.
===============================================
Gene, you have to understand that Snipper is just a bit envious of
anyone who lives on or near the water and owns a decent boat. He
google-trolled for you, and got a strike right away. I don't blame
you for defending Grady-White however since I've always liked their
boats.
So Snippy, how's the sale of that BayWhiner going at above your asking
price?
Skipper
>>>> You can find several of my trip reports and boating experiences from 50
>>>> years of boating in the Google archives, Krause. Where can we find
>>>> yours? You know what I mean, those reports that would be deemed more
>>>> than just a 'spinner' across the local pond in mighty 2' seas for
>>>> crabcakes.
>>> Your "trip reports" are no proof that you've ever splashed a boat in the
>>> water.
>> Oh, so that's where we can find the Krause trip reports.
> That's right, Skipper. While you're faking "trip reports," we're out on
> the water, boating. We're heading out tomorrow morning, if the weather
> is halfway decent. What are *your* boating plans for tomorrow...floating
> your yellow rubber ducky in the tubby-tub-tub?
"faking" trip reports? Those posts speak for themselves.
> I'm simply not interested in putting up long posts here or in any other
> newsgroup, Snippy, unless I am suffering through some sort of technical
> problem that requires a detailed explanation so that someone
> knowledgeable can provide an answer.
Oh, how convenient for a non boater like yourself, Krause. I find it
interesting that in your daily contributions to this NG over the last 7
years there has not been even one interesting trip report coming from
your keyboard.
> Frankly, I don't even read longer posts in newsgroups. Most of them are
> horribly written or formatted or both, and I feel no compulsion to read
> bad writing, especially that emanating from amateurs like you who think
> they can turn a phrase. Let me tell you in all candor: your writing
> stinks.
I find it interesting that many folks not calling themselves
professional writers have managed to submit very interesting trip
reports to this forum but we have never read one from you. The recent
contribution from Chuck Gould is an execellent example of an interesting
trip report. Perhaps you can follow his lead and relate one of your
fantastic voyages.
> And, once again, I state that the fact that you pollute this newsgroup
> with occasional "trip reports" does not mean that you were a participant
> on the trip.
And I might add, those were trip reports of boating adventures you will
never experience.
--
Skipper
Skipper
> I don't believe Skipper has had *any* boating adventures worthy of note,
> and I think that Bayliner of his has spent most of every boating season
> in his driveway or a storage shed.
> My guess is that Skipper reads about someone else's boating adventures
> in newsgroups or magazines, and then rewrites them - in his lousy style
> - so as to make it appear he has taken the trip.
I've got a great story about challenging an eastern wuss to a boating
test in the Cortez. The poseur just cringed in his corner, unable to
move. Would you like to see a summary of that trip?
--
Skipper
Harry Krause
>
> Would you like to see a summary of that trip?
1. There's no proof you ever took such a trip.
2. You're a lousy writer.
Therefore, I'll pass.
Harry Krause
> I find it interesting that many folks not calling themselves
> professional writers have managed to submit very interesting trip
> reports to this forum but we have never read one from you.
We all of us have different standards. Mine obviously are much higher
than yours.
>The recent
> contribution from Chuck Gould is an execellent example of an interesting
> trip report.
Chuck is one of the few posters here who can write.
>
> And I might add, those were trip reports of boating adventures you will
> never experience.
*Your* trip reports? You haven't experienced them yourself.
Skipper
>> Hey, Eugene, take a look at numero siete of companies that suck.
>> http://www.sealicemanor.com/suckco.htm
> Maybe I missed something in this guys post, but it looks like he is
> unhappy with Mariner Marine of Jupiter, FL. If he has a complaint
> with Grady-White he should be talking to people in NC not FL.
> $15,000? Wonder what model, year, and what the heck he had them do?
> I've had EXCELLENT response from the Grady-White factory....
But then, judging from your sig file, you are definitely a Grady-White
zealot.
--
Skipper
Skipper
> Skipper wrote:
>> I've got a great story about challenging an eastern wuss to a boating
>> test in the Cortez. The poseur just cringed in his corner, unable to
>> move. Would you like to see a summary of that trip?
> 1. There's no proof you ever took such a trip.
> 2. You're a lousy writer.
> Therefore, I'll pass.
Oh, there is plenty of proof I took that trip in the Google archives.
And yes, there's also a lot proof in those same archives that you would
indeed pass.
--
Skipper
Skipper
> Skipper wrote:
>> I find it interesting that many folks not calling themselves
>> professional writers have managed to submit very interesting trip
>> reports to this forum but we have never read one from you.
> We all of us have different standards. Mine obviously are much higher
> than yours.
>> The recent contribution from Chuck Gould is an execellent example of
>> an interesting trip report.
> Chuck is one of the few posters here who can write.
Suppose it's a crying shame the rest of us cannot come up to your high
standards, Krause.
--
Skipper
Harry Krause
Grady-White makes some fine fishing boats. Bayliner does not.
Grady-White was one of the cabin brands I was considering when I decided
to purchase a Parker. Gradys have spiffier hardware than Parkers, and a
nicer finish, but I don't believe the Gradys are more durable. In the
end, the Parker's pilothouse cabin tipped the scale in its favor.
I was also considering Contender and Regulator before I ruled out buying
another center console boat. Up here, an enclosed cabin extends the
fishing season by at least a month, and makes boating and fishing an
eight-month hobby for me, though there are hardier folks who do go out
in December and March.
I looked at a couple of Bayliners at a Washington boat show, including
the 25-foot Trophy cabin model with the outboard bracket. I wasn't
impressed with the boat or the quality of its equipment. It's not an
inexpensive boat, either; the "list price" was more than $50,000.
Harry Krause
I have no expectations about the quality of writing in newsgroups; I
simply don't read most lengthy posts. Much of them are too strained, too
overwritten and too purple for my taste.
Harry Krause
> Harry Krause wrote:
>
>> Skipper wrote:
>
>>> I've got a great story about challenging an eastern wuss to a boating
>>> test in the Cortez. The poseur just cringed in his corner, unable to
>>> move. Would you like to see a summary of that trip?
>
>> 1. There's no proof you ever took such a trip.
>> 2. You're a lousy writer.
>
>> Therefore, I'll pass.
>
> Oh, there is plenty of proof I took that trip in the Google archives.
No there isn't. You've posted plenty of garbage in this newsgroup, but
none of it meets the "proof" test.
How many hours have you put on your boat so far this season? Zero, right?
Going out boating tomorrow? Doubtful, eh?
Skipper
>>>> I've got a great story about challenging an eastern wuss to a boating
>>>> test in the Cortez. The poseur just cringed in his corner, unable to
>>>> move. Would you like to see a summary of that trip?
>>> 1. There's no proof you ever took such a trip.
>>> 2. You're a lousy writer.
>>> Therefore, I'll pass.
>> Oh, there is plenty of proof I took that trip in the Google archives.
> No there isn't. You've posted plenty of garbage in this newsgroup, but
> none of it meets the "proof" test.
You are so wrong. The five year mission to get that eastern wuss of his
dead ass and actually back up some of his posits is all too well
documented in the archives.
--
Skipper
Harry Krause
> Oh, there is plenty of proof I took that trip in the Google archives.
There's no reason to believe you *ever* towed that hunka-junka Bayliner
to the Gulf of California from Derby, Kansas. Your usenet posts aren't
proof of anything, especially for a liar like you.
BTW, where did you say you planned to go boating tomorrow? The weather
report for Derby says the day will be sunny and bright, with temps in
the high 70's where you live. Sounds like a near-perfect day for boating
and fishing. So, what time are you and the Missus taking off tomorrow
morning?
Unless the weather here is bad, my wife and I will be enjoying breakfast
next to the water between 7 and 7:30 AM tomorrow, and will be out on one
of our boats with friends between 8 and 9 AM.
What "boating adventures" do you have planned for tomorrow, Skippy? A
little 500-mile spin down the Interstate?
F330 GT
Skipper wrote:
>Bayliner installs Perko cleats, chocks and other deck fittings. PerkoŽ
>one of the best-known and most respected names in marine hardware,
>offers a *lifetime guarantee* on every one. Moreover, deck hardware is
>through-bolted with stainless steel hardware, secured with stout backing
>blocks and fastened with aircraft-type locknuts. All deck fittings are
>bedded in sealant to eliminate leaks."
>
>What more do you want in deck fittings, JR North? And please *do* note
>Harry's silence on this issue...finally!
>
>--
>Skipper
>
>
>
>
>
>
Perko is just another wholesale catalog Company. They sell top of the line,
middle of the line and some real crap. And much of what they sell is made by
others. So saying Perko doesn't mean sh*t. The rest of that PR bull just sounds
like normal construction that I would expect from any boatbuilder.
It's funny how few Bayliners you see here in South Florida where people
actually use their boats for things like fishing offshore or going to the
Bahamas for the weekend. I see more Bayliners in one week on Long Island Sound
in the summer than I'll see in a year down here in the Palm Beach area. In fact
every summer that I visit "up North" I find myself in p.o.s. Bayliner. The best
I can say is that at least the owner has Seatow insurance so the last two times
we got towed in it didn't cost anything. Oh, I could go on.......Maybe another
time I'll drag up some of the nightmares....
Barry
Skipper
> Skipper wrote:
>>>> I've got a great story about challenging an eastern wuss to a boating
>>>> test in the Cortez. The poseur just cringed in his corner, unable to
>>>> move. Would you like to see a summary of that trip?
>>> 1. There's no proof you ever took such a trip.
>>> 2. You're a lousy writer.
>>> Therefore, I'll pass.
>> Oh, there is plenty of proof I took that trip in the Google archives.
>> And yes, there's also a lot proof in those same archives that you would
>> indeed pass.
> There's no reason to believe you *ever* towed that hunka-junka Bayliner
> to the Gulf of California from Derby, Kansas. Your usenet posts aren't
> proof of anything, especially for a liar like you.
Are you willing to post pictures of your Hatt and Lobster boat claims in
exchange for photographic proof of my trips to the Cortez?
And BTW, you are still avoiding addressing the Cortez Challenge trip
mentioned above.
--
Skipper
Skipper
> Skipper wrote:
>> Bayliner installs Perko cleats, chocks and other deck fittings. PerkoŽ
>> one of the best-known and most respected names in marine hardware,
>> offers a *lifetime guarantee* on every one. Moreover, deck hardware is
>> through-bolted with stainless steel hardware, secured with stout backing
>> blocks and fastened with aircraft-type locknuts. All deck fittings are
>> bedded in sealant to eliminate leaks."
>> What more do you want in deck fittings, JR North? And please *do* note
>> Harry's silence on this issue...finally!
> Perko is just another wholesale catalog Company. They sell top of the
> line, middle of the line and some real crap. And much of what they sell
> is made by others. So saying Perko doesn't mean sh*t. The rest of that PR
> bull just sounds like normal construction that I would expect from any
> boatbuilder.
> It's funny how few Bayliners you see here in South Florida...
Floridah? Hot humid mosquito infested Floridah? Oh, you poor soul...
Have you been inoculated for malaria?
--
Skipper
R Kelly
"Skipper" <fair...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3EE1EEB6...@cox.net...
I don't concede anything except my patience with your argument. Chine
'deflection'... not angles, Skipper. I didn't change my topic, but since you
insist on talking about angles when I'm talking about deflection. Let's just
call it a day. I lose.. you win... Bayliner makes the best damn hull on the
water with 90-degree-progressively-angled-reverse-hard-chines, which (of
course) run convex to the hull axis.
As far as my boating goes, I don't keep it a secret and you know already
from your camp-outs in Google. So, let's cut the fodder. Next time you're
even CLOSE to New England, you look me up.You know my email address. Drop me
a line a day in advance and I'll clear my calendar to meet you. We'll run
out to any points accessible off the LI Sound or, if you're not feeling
adventurous that day, we can just cruise around the CT River. I have only
one caveat. Although you choose the destination, you're paying for half the
fuel.
BK
Harry Krause
> Harry Krause wrote:
>
>> Skipper wrote:
>
>>>>> I've got a great story about challenging an eastern wuss to a boating
>>>>> test in the Cortez. The poseur just cringed in his corner, unable to
>>>>> move. Would you like to see a summary of that trip?
>
>>>> 1. There's no proof you ever took such a trip.
>>>> 2. You're a lousy writer.
>
>>>> Therefore, I'll pass.
>
>>> Oh, there is plenty of proof I took that trip in the Google archives.
>
>>> And yes, there's also a lot proof in those same archives that you would
>>> indeed pass.
>
>> There's no reason to believe you *ever* towed that hunka-junka Bayliner
>> to the Gulf of California from Derby, Kansas. Your usenet posts aren't
>> proof of anything, especially for a liar like you.
>
> Are you willing to post pictures of your Hatt and Lobster boat claims in
> exchange for photographic proof of my trips to the Cortez?
Oh, puh-lease, Snipper. Anyone can obtain photos of any tourista
location, or even doctor photos to put in someone who was never there.
You're a self-confessed liar, Skipper. Why would I believe anything you
post?
I've given you my answer on the photos you want so badly to see. You
think I'm going to trade off my position? Absurd. The photos will be
posted once I have legitimate proof you are dead. No matter how you ask,
the answer will be the same.
> And BTW, you are still avoiding addressing the Cortez Challenge trip
> mentioned above.
I have no interest in seeing you or your Bayliner.
Where are you planning to boat and fish tomorrow, Snipper? Nowhere, right?
F330 GT
>
>Floridah? Hot humid mosquito infested Floridah? Oh, you poor soul...
>Have you been inoculated for malaria?
>
>--
>Skipper
>
>
>
>
>
>
Damn, I wish I kept the newspaper article of a couple of day's ago. I think it
was the Robb Report that said Palm Beach was one of the top ten places to live
in the United States. I quickly scanned it but I'm real sure that none of the
other nine places were in Kansass.
I bet any one of the top 50 yachts in Palm Beach would be worth more than all
the boats in Kanass.
Barry
Wayne B
wrote:
>Next time you're
>even CLOSE to New England, you look me up.You know my email address. Drop me
>a line a day in advance and I'll clear my calendar to meet you. We'll run
>out to any points accessible off the LI Sound or, if you're not feeling
>adventurous that day, we can just cruise around the CT River.
Perfect, take Snipper out through the Old Saybrook breakwaters when
the afternoon sou'wester is blowing hard and the CT river is ebbing.
He can show you how to trim out your boat so you won't notice the
three foot chop. :-}
Skipper
>> Very clever how you changed the topic from a discussion about Bayliner
>> chine angles affect on roll reduction to a direct bash on Bayliner and
>> myself. Suppose that means you accept the position that your assertion
>> that the SLH form induces roll and wallow is "factually challenged". As
>> to your assertion that my trip reports are factually challenged, I can
>> only assume you are one of those East Coast railbirds who does not have
>> real boating experiences with which to relate. Where do you do your
>> boating, and what kind?
> I don't concede anything except my patience with your argument. Chine
> 'deflection'... not angles, Skipper. I didn't change the topic...
Yes, actually, you did. Your contention was that the Bayliner SLH
promotes *roll*. I responded that Bayliner's reverse hard chine angle
actually dampens roll. You protested, but your position is incorrect
with regard to this issue.
--
Skipper
Skipper
>>> There's no reason to believe you *ever* towed that hunka-junka Bayliner
>>> to the Gulf of California from Derby, Kansas. Your usenet posts aren't
>>> proof of anything, especially for a liar like you.
>> Are you willing to post pictures of your Hatt and Lobster boat claims in
>> exchange for photographic proof of my trips to the Cortez?
> Oh, puh-lease, Snipper. Anyone can obtain photos of any tourista
> location, or even doctor photos to put in someone who was never there.
> You're a self-confessed liar, Skipper. Why would I believe anything you
> post? I've given you my answer on the photos...
Yeah, that just about says it all. Krause, you are a poseur and a fraud.
--
Skipper
Skipper
>>> It's funny how few Bayliners you see here in South Florida...
>> Floridah? Hot humid mosquito infested Floridah? Oh, you poor soul...
>> Have you been inoculated for malaria?
> Damn, I wish I kept the newspaper article of a couple of day's ago. I
> think it was the Robb Report that said Palm Beach was one of the top ten
> places to live in the United States. I quickly scanned it but I'm real
> sure that none of the other nine places were in Kansass. I bet any one of
> the top 50 yachts in Palm Beach would be worth more than all the boats in
> Kanass.
That Palm Beach party circuit must be fascinating for you, Barry. Do you
serve the hors d'oeuvres and canapés, or just work the bar? Have you
every run into Harry at one of those parties or was his kind uninvited.
--
Skipper
Dan Krueger
never see a reply or he will edit it out.
Dan
Put Name Here wrote:
>I noticed that this Skip Bird, loves to ask people questions about their
>experience, type of boat etc., but never answers any of the similar
>questions posed by others.
>
>It is obvious that he does not have any recent boating experience, and is
>forced into baiting others in here for his adventure.
>
>"Harry Krause" <etaoin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:Fr2cnaQ7J9y...@comcast.com...
>
>>Skipper wrote:
>>
>>>Harry Krause wrote:
>>>
>>>>>As to your assertion that my trip reports are factually challenged, I
>>>>>can only assume you are one of those East Coast railbirds who does not
>>>>>have real boating experiences with which to relate. Where do you do
>>>>>
>your
>
>>>>>boating, and what kind?
>>>>>
>>>>You're in no position to criticize the boating experiences of others,
>>>>since you barely have any of your own.
>>>>
>>>You can find several of my trip reports and boating experiences from 50
>>>years of boating in the Google archives,
>>>
>>
>>Your "trip reports" are no proof that you've ever splashed a boat in the
>>water.
>>
>>How many hours on your boat so far this year?
>>How many last year?
>>How many total?
>>When's the last time you had that 22' Bayliner in the Atlantic or
>>Pacific Oceans?
>>
>>I'd bet a few bucks you've got maybe a couple hundred hours on that
>>Bayliner, if that many.
>>
>>You like the idea of boating, but you don't do much of it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
Skipper
> G-W is not a do-all, end-all of all boats, but it is designed for the
> area that I boat in and performs flawlessly in those areas.
As does the Trophy.
> I'm a middle of the road kinda guy, but I DO support those companies
> that have gone the extra mile for me.... the consumer. Grady has done
> that...
As does Trophy.
> Though we have butted heads over Bayliner/Trophy (and there seems to
> be some confusion among posters, there) if your boat is performing up
> to par for you....... don't be so damn sensitive. I owned a Bayliner
> and it performed admirably for me for use in the ICW, but it DID have
> its limits. I bought the G-W to take in the river and, especially,
> off shore. It has about three times the freeboard ... of a BL
> and that adds a measure of safety for me and my friends and family.
Whoa there buckeroo, that's where we part company. You say your Grady
has three times the freeboard of the 2252? Hogwash! The 2252 has thigh
high padded gunwales, hip high for a short dweeb like Krause. You
contend the G-W has three times greater freeboard and affords better
safety for passengers in the cockpit? Make your case.
> I have frequently taken greenies over the bow while at anchor fishing at
> the reef... and that is with 4-5 feet of freeboard...
I contend the 2252 will take a greenie over the bow just as well and
leave the passengers completely dry.
> IF I was looking, solely, for interior space I would have gone for the BL,
> hands down. However, that is not the primary consideration in my usage in
> these waters.
> I seriously considered a Trophy, but was terrified away by the Trophy
> I posted pictures of. In simplistic terms, the glue that held the
> upper and lower halves together failed. That isn't good and I've
> never see nor heard of any other boat that failed in such an elemental
> way. As you have correctly noted, for the same money I could have
> gotten a larger boat., but at what total cost?
> All things considered, we, as a group, have done a great job of
> allowing people to enjoy whatever they brought that floated. Let's
> not change that and become an elitist group, but let's not give sage
> advice that endangers lives, either.
Would seem most of that dangerous advice comes from those on the Eastern
sea bored whose idea of a great day on the water is strutting around the
dock smoking big cigars and singing sea chanties between swigs of port.
--
Skipper
Harry Krause
Hey, Skipper, we're heading for breakfast and the boat in about 45
minutes...where did you say you and your Bayliner were boating today?
In the driveway? Again? Awwwwwwww. Must suck to live in Derby, Kansas, eh?
Harry Krause
Where are you boating today, Skippy? In your bathtub, eh? Awwwwwwww. Too
bad.
Harry Krause
>.
>
> I contend the 2252 will take a greenie over the bow just as well and
> leave the passengers completely dry.
You can contend all you like, but you haven't the experience to back it up.
> Would seem most of that dangerous advice comes from those on the Eastern
> sea bored whose idea of a great day on the water is strutting around the
> dock smoking big cigars and singing sea chanties between swigs of port.
>
Taking that Bayliner out on an adventure today, Skippy? Been out on that
Bayliner once this year...I mean with it in the water? No? Didn't think
so. Poor, poor pitiful Dave Mann of Derby, Kansas, who calls himself
Skipper so he can pretend to be a...boater.
Skipper
> Hey, Skipper, we're heading for breakfast and the boat in about 45
> minutes...
Oh, you found a place that will accept your kind? They must be under
some kind of duress.
--
Skipper
Harry Krause
Time's up...we're off. Have a nice day watching the wheat grow, or
whatever the hell it is you do on Sunday after your Klan meeting.
R Kelly
"Wayne B" <WayneBatR...@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:jkb5evkd08951o9cc...@4ax.com...
The chop doesn't bother me nearly as much as it once did. Still find it
tricky with high traffic, an ebbing tide and especially with the SW wind.
Even with experience and confidence it still gets your attention, doesn't
it?
BK
R Kelly
I conceded. You won. Bayliner's don't roll. Chine deflection doesn't matter.
You rule. Now, go fishing... and fuggaboudit.
BK
Skipper
> Skipper wrote:
>> R Kelly wrote:
>>>> Very clever how you changed the topic from a discussion about Bayliner
>>>> chine angles affect on roll reduction to a direct bash on Bayliner and
>>>> myself. Suppose that means you accept the position that your assertion
>>>> that the SLH form induces roll and wallow is "factually challenged".
>>> I don't concede anything except my patience with your argument. Chine
>>> 'deflection'... not angles, Skipper. I didn't change the topic...
>> Yes, actually, you did. Your contention was that the Bayliner SLH
>> promotes *roll*. I responded that Bayliner's reverse hard chine angle
>> actually dampens roll. You protested, but your position is incorrect
>> with regard to this issue.
> I conceded. You won. Bayliner's don't roll. Chine deflection doesn't
> matter. You rule. Now, go fishing... and fuggaboudit.
Then should we take it you are retracting your statement, "Personally, I
don't like the 'sequential lift' hull design Bayliner used in the mid to
late 1980's. It seems to list, wallow and roll a great deal." and now
admit the SLH design actually reduces roll and does not induce list and
wallow?
--
Skipper
Jim
Nuys, Ca., where the other store was. They just didn't follow through on their
promise. Simple.
Like I said, anyone from Circuit City want to answer this? Same answer I got
from the manager of the Torrance, Ca. store. None.
They lost a customer permamently, and, if everyone understood how they stand
behind their price guarentee, they would be out of business. And, THEY SHOULD
BE.
Jim- (two places you'll never see me, Circuit City, and a General Motors
showroom)
Karl Denninger wrote:
> CC will only meet prices from their "local market." That's in their
> price-match policy - printed clearly.
>
> Its a dodge, but at least its a disclosed dodge.
>
> Personally I think it sucks, but they DO occasionally have a better price
> than their competition (recently they have had on certain Compaq Laptops)
> and so once in a while I'll buy something there.
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
> http://www.denninger.net Tired of spam at your company? LOOK HERE!
> http://childrens-justice.org Working for family and children's rights
> http://diversunion.org LOG IN AND GET YOUR TANK STICKERS TODAY!
>
> In article <3EE25D73...@hotmail.com>, Jim <J...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >I'll tell you how much Circuit City rocks.
> >
> >I saw a 12 volt tv advertised at Muntz for a good price. Took newspaper
> >ad to Circuit City first, as Muntz is a long drive, and Circuit City
> >guarentees to meet or beat advertised prices. Price was $275/175.
> >Considerable amount of difference.
> >
> >Circuit city would not meet the price. Infact they refused to say
> >anything other than, "we can't meet that price". Left me standing
> >there.
> >
> >So much for their guarentee.
> >
> >Anyone from Circuit City want to tackle this? I thought not.
> >
> >Skipper wrote:
> >
> >> Gene Kearns wrote:
> >>
> >> >>> Quality construction for the smaller Bayliners:
> >>
> >> >>> http://tinyurl.com/do9c
> >>
> >> >> I am just really impressed with this URL.
> >>
> >> > ROFLMAO.......
> >>
> >> Hey, Eugene, take a look at numero siete of companies that suck.
> >>
> >> http://www.sealicemanor.com/suckco.htm
> >>
> >> --
> >> Skipper
> >
Harry Krause
No, Skipper, what he is saying is that you are such an idiot, he
doesn't want to "discuss" it any more with you. Idiot.
R Kelly
Steven Shelikoff
>Quality construction for the smaller Bayliners:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/do9c
I do have a serious question for you. According to the Bayliner
website, the 2252 is supposed to be a cruising motorboat. And I think a
general consensus would agree that a max cruising range of 132 (from the
website) miles is a bit skimpy for a cruising motorboat. So my question
is, looking at your 2252, don't you see a way for them to fit more than
a 55 gallon fuel tank? Is there space around the fuel tank that could
be used if they fitted a more conformal tank? Could something be
rearranged to allow for more fuel? A 55 gallon tank doesn't take up
very much space. There must be some more available that could be put to
good use as more fuel tankage.
I see this as being a serious limitation on a "cruising" vessel. And
going up to the 2452 doesn't get any better. It has a bigger tank at 80
gals, but that gives a max range of only 117 miles with the 5.0L.
That's unacceptably low. At least with the 5.7L, it goes up to 148
miles. Still on the low side for a cruising vessel.
Steve
Harry Krause
> On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 21:59:01 GMT, Skipper <fair...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>Quality construction for the smaller Bayliners:
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/do9c
>
> I do have a serious question for you. According to the Bayliner
> website, the 2252 is supposed to be a cruising motorboat. And I think a
> general consensus would agree that a max cruising range of 132 (from the
> website) miles is a bit skimpy for a cruising motorboat. So my question
> is, looking at your 2252, don't you see a way for them to fit more than
> a 55 gallon fuel tank? Is there space around the fuel tank that could
> be used if they fitted a more conformal tank? Could something be
> rearranged to allow for more fuel? A 55 gallon tank doesn't take up
> very much space. There must be some more available that could be put to
> good use as more fuel tankage.
This shortcoming has been pointed out about a zillion times. Skipper's
answer is to strap a half dozen jerry cans to the sides of his boat,
turning it into a gasoline bomb.
Steven Shelikoff
Yeah, I know. But I really am curious as to why it has to be a
shortcoming at all. And the 2252 isn't the only one with that problem.
Others of that size, like SeaRays, aren't any better. But then they
aren't being advertised by the company as a cruising vessel.
Not having crawled around one, I'd like the benefit of someone who has
to tell me why the tank is so small. Is there really no room for more?
My boat has a 78 gallon fuel tank and looking at the size of the tank,
it looks like something that surely could fit into a much smaller boat,
something the size of a 2252.
Steve
Gould 0738
>>> website, the 2252 is supposed to be a cruising motorboat. And I think a
>>> general consensus would agree that a max cruising range of 132 (from the
>>> website) miles is a bit skimpy for a cruising motorboat. So my question
>>> is, looking at your 2252, don't you see a way for them to fit more than
>>> a 55 gallon fuel tank? Is there space around the fuel tank that could
>>> be used if they fitted a more conformal tank? Could something be
>>> rearranged to allow for more fuel? A 55 gallon tank doesn't take up
>>> very much space. There must be some more available that could be put to
>>> good use as more fuel tankage.
>>
>>This shortcoming has been pointed out about a zillion times. Skipper's
>>answer is to strap a half dozen jerry cans to the sides of his boat,
>>turning it into a gasoline bomb.
>
>Yeah, I know. But I really am curious as to why it has to be a
>shortcoming at all. And the 2252 isn't the only one with that problem.
>Others of that size, like SeaRays, aren't any better. But then they
>aren't being advertised by the company as a cruising vessel.
>
>Not having crawled around one, I'd like the benefit of someone who has
>to tell me why the tank is so small. Is there really no room for more?
>My boat has a 78 gallon fuel tank and looking at the size of the tank,
>it looks like something that surely could fit into a much smaller boat,
>something the size of a 2252.
>
>Steve
>
"Cruising" doesn't have to mean LRC.
Depends on local geography, of course, but 135 mile range will allow a Seattle
based boater to get past the San Juans and well into Candian waters before
refilling the 55 gallon tank. Within 135 mile radius of the home slip for any
of our regional boaters, there are at least 50 interesting places to visit or
things to see. At 135 miles, yes the range sucks, but the fuel economy isn't
too bad. A lot of people don't want or need to "cruise" very far on a three day
weekend or a quick overnight.....the type of use such a boat will get the
majority of times.
"Cruising" is one of those words that the sailing community seems to think it
owns.
If a boat ain't going from SF to Honolulu, there are a fair number of folks who
won't concede it could possibly be cruising.
Guys who head 50 or 60 miles offshore to hunt down the wily pescatore? Need
more than 135 mile range, no doubt. But boats "not suitable" for a particular
purpose are often fine, (and even specifically intended), for another.
Skipper
> This is always flame war bait, but I think these vessels... along with
> many of their competitor vessels have the same "flaw," because the
> users and owners don't see this as a major short coming. ...
> The logical conclusion... and what I have observed is that owners of
> these vessels don't "cruise" in the sense you are thinking. A few
> miles out into the lake to the cove or a hop from marina to marina is
> all that is built in, because that is all that is really needed.
> So, IMHO, if you are looking for maximum inhabitable interior
> space.... with the result a trailerable and usable floating RV, a
> smaller gas tank and inaccessible and cumbersome deck areas forward of
> the cockpit are a small price to pay. Any vessel is a trade-off and
> these are the trade-offs made to accomplish the desired result in this
> case.
The 2252 has cruised from Port of Catoosa (Tulsa) to Galveston and back
with its 55 gallon tank via the Verdigris, Arkansas, Green, and
Mississippi Rivers and Gulf waters. It has also comfortably cruised from
San Carlos, Sonora to Cabo and back. I doubt many other 22-footers have
accomplished those demanding cruising tasks.
As to your comment about "inaccessible and cumbersome deck areas forward
of the cockpit", I would not agree with regard to the 2252. Launch and
load access is available via the walk thru windshield. Access underway
is via the forward hatch. From the security of that hatch fender
placement and removal, anchor handling, and line handling can be
accomplished with safety and ease.
--
Skipper
NOYB
With the current terrorist threat, if Skippy approached the US mainland with
those jerry cans strapped to the side of his hull, he'd be blown out of the
water by the Coastie's.
Hmmmmm. Maybe you should take him up on his "challenge". Please bring a
camera. The money you earn from America's Funniest Videos for the video of
a 22' Bayliner getting sunk by a Coast Guard patrol boat would pay for you
trip...and then some.
Scott McFadden
> F330 GT wrote:
<SNIP>
> > It's funny how few Bayliners you see here in South Florida...
Offshore East Cent FL, "Skipper Class" Bayliners are not to be found.
Obviously, their "skippers" have better sense than the one who posts
on this NG.
However, I see plenty of Bayliners "bee bopping" up and down the ICW,
where they belong, and seemingly having a marvelous time doing so.
> Floridah? Hot humid mosquito infested Floridah? Oh, you poor soul...
> Have you been inoculated for malaria?
Skipper, why don't you tell us where John D. Rockefeller spent the
last 20 years of his life? (Hint: it was in not Kansas)
Or, where did Henry Flagler spend most of his fortune and the later
part of his life? (Hint: he, his wife, and a daughter, are buried at a
church next to "Flagler" college, which is right north of "Flagler"
County.)
Why, do you suppose, neither chose Kansas? What do you know they did
not?
--
SJM
Skipper
>> F330 GT wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>> It's funny how few Bayliners you see here in South Florida...
> Offshore East Cent FL, "Skipper Class" Bayliners are not to be found.
Hint numero uno - Bayliner is the world's sales leader and has been for
over thirty years.
Hint numero dos - East Central Floriduh is not the center of the known
universe.
> However, I see plenty of Bayliners "bee bopping" up and down the ICW,
> where they belong, and seemingly having a marvelous time doing so.
>> Floriduh? Hot humid mosquito infested Floriduh? Oh, you poor soul...
>> Have you been inoculated for malaria?
> Skipper, why don't you tell us where John D. Rockefeller spent the
> last 20 years of his life? Or, where did Henry Flagler spend most of
> his fortune and the later part of his life?
Obviously, someone missed their inoculations...
--
Skipper
Scott McFadden
> Scott McFadden wrote:
> >
> > Skipper <fair...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<3EE29C60...@cox.net>...
>
> >> F330 GT wrote:
>
> > <SNIP>
>
> >>> It's funny how few Bayliners you see here in South Florida...
>
> > Offshore East Cent FL, "Skipper Class" Bayliners are not to be found.
>
> Hint numero uno - Bayliner is the world's sales leader and has been for
> over thirty years.
Let me guess, McDonalds "is the world's sales leader and has been for
over thirty years" too?
I'm sure you are a big fan of them as well since the insipid,
poisonous, slop they call "food" clearly has more than enough
"quality" to satisify your depreciated aspirations.
As for me, I prefer to go up to the little Turtle Shack Grill in
-Flagler- Beach.
It's right on A1A so, the young babes in bikinis/short shorts are
always walking by on their way to the beach, a cool seabreeze blows in
the late afternoon and, to top it off, they have the coldest beer and
best burgers in E Cen FL (IMHO).
Some of us know what it is like, and therefore enjoy going, First
Class.
> Hint numero dos - East Central Floriduh is not the center of the known
> universe.
Never said it was.
However, I suspect that the "World Class Boating" destination of
Derby, Kansas is even 1500 miles further away.
> > However, I see plenty of Bayliners "bee bopping" up and down the ICW,
> > where they belong, and seemingly having a marvelous time doing so.
>
> >> Floriduh? Hot humid mosquito infested Floriduh? Oh, you poor soul...
> >> Have you been inoculated for malaria?
>
> > Skipper, why don't you tell us where John D. Rockefeller spent the
> > last 20 years of his life? Or, where did Henry Flagler spend most of
> > his fortune and the later part of his life?
>
> Obviously, someone missed their inoculations...
Both reached (or nearly reached) age 90. Way, way, beyond the life
expectancy at the time.
Today, living to be 90 years old is a common feat. Even in a tornado
ravaged, desolate, forlorn, barren, dustbowl-like, place like Kansas.
--
SJM
Harry Krause
> Gene Kearns wrote:
>
>> This is always flame war bait, but I think these vessels... along with
>> many of their competitor vessels have the same "flaw," because the
>> users and owners don't see this as a major short coming. ...
>
>> The logical conclusion... and what I have observed is that owners of
>> these vessels don't "cruise" in the sense you are thinking. A few
>> miles out into the lake to the cove or a hop from marina to marina is
>> all that is built in, because that is all that is really needed.
>
>> So, IMHO, if you are looking for maximum inhabitable interior
>> space.... with the result a trailerable and usable floating RV, a
>> smaller gas tank and inaccessible and cumbersome deck areas forward of
>> the cockpit are a small price to pay. Any vessel is a trade-off and
>> these are the trade-offs made to accomplish the desired result in this
>> case.
>
> The 2252 has cruised from Port of Catoosa (Tulsa) to Galveston and back
> with its 55 gallon tank via the Verdigris, Arkansas, Green, and
> Mississippi Rivers and Gulf waters. It has also comfortably cruised from
> San Carlos, Sonora to Cabo and back. I doubt many other 22-footers have
> accomplished those demanding cruising tasks.
"The" 2252? As opposed to Skipper's 2252, which hasn't cruised out of
its storage shed for years.
BTW, didn't you say you carried a bunch of jerry cans on board to extend
your range?
Or was that b.s., too?
>
> As to your comment about "inaccessible and cumbersome deck areas forward
> of the cockpit", I would not agree with regard to the 2252. Launch and
> load access is available via the walk thru windshield. Access underway
> is via the forward hatch. From the security of that hatch fender
> placement and removal, anchor handling, and line handling can be
> accomplished with safety and ease.
> --
> Skipper
Harry Krause
> Skipper <fair...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<3EE29C60...@cox.net>...
>
>> F330 GT wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> > It's funny how few Bayliners you see here in South Florida...
>
> Offshore East Cent FL, "Skipper Class" Bayliners are not to be found.
>
> Obviously, their "skippers" have better sense than the one who posts
> on this NG.
>
> However, I see plenty of Bayliners "bee bopping" up and down the ICW,
> where they belong, and seemingly having a marvelous time doing so.
Yep, that's where I saw them in Florida...making runs "inside," up and
down the ICW, all day long. But hardly ever out in the ocean.
Harry Krause
> Scott McFadden wrote:
>>
>> Skipper <fair...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<3EE29C60...@cox.net>...
>
>>> F330 GT wrote:
>
>> <SNIP>
>
>>>> It's funny how few Bayliners you see here in South Florida...
>
>> Offshore East Cent FL, "Skipper Class" Bayliners are not to be found.
>
> Hint numero uno - Bayliner is the world's sales leader and has been for
> over thirty years.
Not any more. But even if it were, so what? McDonalds is the hamburger
leader. No one rational confuses its cheapo hamburgers with good burgerss.
>
> Hint numero dos - East Central Floriduh is not the center of the known
> universe.
Florida is one of the world's major boating centers. All of Florida.
More boats in one major area of Florida than you have ever seen.
F330 GT
>> Hint numero dos - East Central Floriduh is not the center of the known
>> universe.
>
And Harry wrote:
>Florida is one of the world's major boating centers. All of Florida.
>More boats in one major area of Florida than you have ever seen.
>
>
>
>
Skippy sure makes me appreciate living here in West Palm Beach. Within a 80
mile radius or less, I've got Lake Okeechobee (for bass) to the West, Indian
River Lagoon (trout redfish, snook) to the North, The Bahamas (marllin, wahoo,
diving) to the East and the Florida Keys (diving, grouper, snapper) to the
South. Not to mention the Everglades, 10,000 Islands area and hundreds of small
lakes and canals to enjoy. All this within a days trip. And...lots of people
call this the sailfish capital of the world.
It must be hell for someone so obsessed with boating that he has to call
himself "Skipper" and he's stuck in such a barren and desolate place as Derby,
Kansass. No wonder he lashes out at those people that actually have a life.
Barry
Harry Krause
Indeed, and that's why it is important from time to time to pour him
back into the swamp from whence he oozes. Skipper's "boating" oriented
posts have the potential for considerable harm, especially to a naive
"newbie" who might actually be taken in by his b.s.
There surely are more boat dealers in "Central Florida," probably in the
Greater Orlando metro area, than exist in the entire state of Kansas.
Skipper's posts the last couple of weeks have certainly done him great
harm among the couple of visitors here who might have taken him
seriously. Now, if the past is any indicator, Skippy will slip back into
"Skipper - the political attack dog" mode and start posting items that
he believes rationalize his right-wing simple-mindedness. Then he'll
disappear for a week or two.
Wayne B
>The 2252 has cruised from Port of Catoosa (Tulsa) to Galveston and back
>with its 55 gallon tank via the Verdigris, Arkansas, Green, and
>Mississippi Rivers and Gulf waters. It has also comfortably cruised from
>San Carlos, Sonora to Cabo and back. I doubt many other 22-footers have
>accomplished those demanding cruising tasks.
All of this with the BayWhiner firmly on it's trailer burning 0 GPH ?
It could go forever!
Don White
It seems bizarre behavior to most people until you realize he lives in farm
country.
There, cycles are a normal part of nature.
You plant
watch crop grow
harvest crop
snuggle up with animals for winter........spring comes and the whole cycle
starts over again...year after tedious year.
Skippy is a product of his environment.......although possibly a slightly
defective product..
Harry Krause <etaoin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b62cnYy0jIE...@comcast.com...
Skipper
> Skipper's "boating" oriented posts have the potential for considerable
> harm, especially to a naive "newbie" who might actually be taken in by
> his b.s.
While we're on the subject of bullship, do you have a picture or two of
the Hatteras and lobster boat so we can put to rest the accusations from
those who believe you are full of ship. Keep in mind that last Hatt
photo you tried to palm off on the group was proven to be a fraud.
--
Skipper
Steven Shelikoff
A 135 mile radius? That gets you there but not back. That range only
gives you a 67 mile radius if there's no fuel where you're going. And
that assumes the weather stays nice, and that all your fuel is used to
get there and back and none to tool around wherever you're going. If
you want to go somewhere that doesn't have fuel, motor around for an
hour or two and come back, you can only go maybe 40-50 miles away.
Steve
Steven Shelikoff
wrote:
>Another give away for the use of these boats is the difficulty in
>going from the aft cockpit area to extreme forward areas and the shape
>of the forward areas..... where design and engineering attention has
>given maximum attention to interior volume at the expense of a flat
>and accessible foredeck. Accessability-wise, many Carvers are worse
>than Bayliner.
I realize that's a design tradeoff for this type of boat. For the
advantage of more interior volume, you have a poorly shaped forward
area. But I don't see such a tradeoff with providing a larger fuel tank
if there is room for it. Thus my question.
Steve
basskisser
Do you have any RECENT boating pictures, Skip?
Gould 0738
>debatable configuration change.
Weight may also have something to do with it. Most little planing hulls have
miserly tankage. (How long you going to stay on the hook with 25-30 gallons of
potable water?). When you see how fast fuel and water weigh up, it might have
too much effect on performance.
Gould 0738
>gives you a 67 mile radius if there's no fuel where you're going. And
>that assumes the weather stays nice, and that all your fuel is used to
>get there and back and none to tool around wherever you're going. If
>you want to go somewhere that doesn't have fuel, motor around for an
>hour or two and come back, you can only go maybe 40-50 miles away.
>
>Steve
My example was based on a Seattle area boater. Do you know of any direction in
which one can cruise for 67 miles from Seattle and not encounter at least one
fuel dock enroute? I suppose you *could* endlessly circumnavigate Vashon Island
until you ran out of fuel, without making a short detour to Des Moines, Gig
Harbor, Pt. Defiance, etc. :-)
>>Depends on local geography, of course, but 135 mile range will allow a
>Seattle
>>based boater to get past the San Juans and well into Candian waters before
>>refilling the 55 gallon tank. Within 135 mile radius of the home slip for
>any
>>of our regional boaters, there are at least 50 interesting places to visit
Fuel stops are more than sufficiently frequent in the type of waters in which a
2252 should be used, at least 'round here
and that's all I was speaking to. :-)
Scott McFadden
> Skippy sure makes me appreciate living here in West Palm Beach. Within a 80
> mile radius or less, I've got Lake Okeechobee (for bass) to the West, Indian
> River Lagoon (trout redfish, snook) to the North, The Bahamas (marllin, wahoo,
> diving) to the East and the Florida Keys (diving, grouper, snapper) to the
> South. Not to mention the Everglades, 10,000 Islands area and hundreds of
> small lakes and canals to enjoy. All this within a days trip. And...lots of
> people call this the sailfish capital of the world.
You forgot to mention the Gulf Stream, and seriously deep water, is
only 2 miles offshore of WPB. Both are +-40 miles up here. A long
haul.
Anyway, here are some of my E Cen FL favorites spots (+- 50 miles
NSE&W)
Saltwater Inshore (aka year around) = Mosquito Lagoon
Oak Hill - Eldora area
Ponce Inlet area
Spruce Creek
ICW at Flagler Beach
ICW at Palm Coast
Pellicer Creek
Mantanzas Inlet area
Salt Run
St Aug Inlet area.
Pine Island area
Nice restaurants nearby to all the above areas (except for ML).
Saltwater Offshore (May to Nov) = Too many areas to even try and
list.
I am not real big on fresh water (since I live on a barrier island)
but, when it is too rough (and any of the above areas can get real
sloppy) you have the option of one of the coolest, calmest, sweetwater
cruises (and you can scuba dive it also) on the face of the earth.
The Silver River right downtown to Mammouth Spring (where the glass
bottom boats run). Last time I was there, the people waiting for the
cattle/tour guide boat wanted me to take them in my boat (even
offering $$). I declined as the employees at the Park (the grounds are
a private attraction, Silver Springs) would get all pissed off.
The boat ramp ($2) is at a small county Park just east of Ocala on the
south side of SR 40. Turn right (west) after a short run from the ramp
and remember it is idle speed the whole way (takes about 3hrs no stop,
round trip).
Don't let the Park Rangers (they have a dark gray 15' Boston Whaler
Sport) see you feeding the gators or the monkeys who play along the
banks (they escaped from the old B/W, Tarzan film sets and have
successfully bred and eluded all attempts at capture ever since) or
you might get a fine.
> It must be hell for someone so obsessed with boating that he has to call
> himself "Skipper" and he's stuck in such a barren and desolate place as Derby,
> Kansass.
I've been to Wichita (took a tour of the Cessna Airplane factory -
pretty cool) and Dodge City.
I could not wait to get back home.
--
SJM
Skipper
> F330 GT wrote:
>> Skippy sure makes me appreciate living here in West Palm Beach. Within
>> a 80 mile radius or less, I've got Lake Okeechobee...
> You forgot to mention seriously deep water is only 2 miles offshore of
> WPB. Both are +-40 miles up here. A long haul.
> Anyway, here are some of my E Cen FL favorites spots (+- 50 miles
> NSE&W)
> Mosquito Lagoon...
Mosquito Lagoon? Hot humid MOSQUITO infested Mosquito Lagoon is at the
*top* of your list? Oh, that is so funny...Sort of reminds me of the
time we were attacked by swarms of mosquitos around sunset on the ICW.
--
Skipper
F330 GT
the Silver River, I believe) back in the early 70's when I was at Gainesville.
I even remember the boat ramp you're talking about. Also loved to go tubing or
diving down the Ichketucknee River. We found lot's of fossils: sharks teeth,
occasional mastadon teeth and bones. Also, we did a lot of cave dving around
there: Blue Hole, Devils Den, Jenny Springs. Can't remember all of them now.
Back then none of it was State Park and almost never saw park rangers or marine
patrol.
Nothing wrong with Central Florida.
Barry
Scott McFadden
> Mosquito Lagoon? Hot humid MOSQUITO infested Mosquito Lagoon is at the
> *top* of your list?
Go google up -world class redfishing- and see what comes up.
Even a complete and total novice, such as yourself, can hire one of
the two dozen or so guides that work the area and catch them.
> Oh, that is so funny...Sort of reminds me of the
> time we were attacked by swarms of mosquitos around sunset on the ICW.
Hey Einstein, next time why don't you (1) plan ahead and be off the
water before dark (about 9pm this time of year) and/or (2) go to
Walmart the day before and get some Cutter bug juice.
What an idiot.
--
SJM
Gould 0738
>the North Western waters offshore is not accurate?
>
>
A whalloping majority of boating in the Pacific NW occurs in waters that are
classified as "inland" and are semi protected. This would include all of Puget
Sound, The San Juan/Gulf Island archipelago, and the waters on the lee side of
Vancouver Island. Hundreds and hundreds of square miles of recreational boating
Nirvana. You see Bayliners everywhere in this region. There are a few notorious
tricky spots, like the Strait of Juan de Fuca, the Strait of Georgia, Johnstone
Strait, and even Rosaio Strait, where a 2252 Bayliner boater- as well as most
other boaters, will think twice before venturing out in nasty conditions.
The only real "offshore" conditions up here are on the W side of Vancouver
Island, and off the Washington and Oregon coasts.
A lot fewer people boat along the coast.
There are few first class harbors, and accessing most of the harbors involves
negotiating bars that can be tricky under certain conditions- and downright
deadly under others.
On any given day, close to 100% of the powerboats off the Washington coast are
engaged in fishing. Not much else to do out there if you aren't just passing
through.
Bayliner Trophy boats are included in the mix that you will see in the Pacific,
but my impression is that they constitute a small percentage of the "offshore"
boats than they do the boats used in our inland saltwater.
Steven Shelikoff
wrote:
>I guess the point is that making a few bizarre shaped fuel tanks to
>fit into the unused nooks and crannies that *aren't* used on a
>Bayliner just isn't worth the expense to benefit ratio to undertake.
>Alternatively a large regular shaped fuel tank would likely raise the
>floor or move a bulkhead for the required space.... again, a
>trade-off that the typical customer probably would forgo in lieu of
>the space lost.
>
>Bottom line IMHO: there isn't room for more fuel without some sort of
>debatable configuration change.
Well, there ya go. That's what I was asking from someone who has one,
i.e., if there's room for a bigger tank without too much effort or if
all of the easily available space is taken up by the current 55 gallon
tank.
Steve
Skipper
> Skipper wrote:
>> Mosquito Lagoon? Hot humid MOSQUITO infested Mosquito Lagoon is at the
>> *top* of your list?
> Go google up -world class redfishing- and see what comes up.
> Even a complete and total novice, such as yourself, can hire one of
> the two dozen or so guides that work the area and catch them.
You know, I did Google up "World class fishing" and came up with this
list:
Funny thing is that list sort of directs one towards the West Coast. Not
much about central Floriduh. Perhaps it's my limited Googling
experience.
I then Googled up "World class marlin" and got: http://tinyurl.com/e39k
Next, I Googled "World class sportfishing" and got:
http://tinyurl.com/e39p
Not much about central Floriduh there either. Everything seems to point
west when it comes to world class fishing. Why do you think that is?
>> Oh, that is so funny...Sort of reminds me of the time we were attacked
>> by swarms of mosquitos around sunset on the ICW.
> Hey Einstein, next time why don't you (1) plan ahead and be off the
> water before dark (about 9pm this time of year) and/or (2) go to
> Walmart the day before and get some Cutter bug juice.
> What an idiot.
This idiot has another idea, that is to avoid hot humid sticky mosquito
infested and crowded Floriduh for much more interesting and challenging
western waters.
--
Skipper
Steven Shelikoff
Weight might be a problem. But another 25 gals of fuel gets you to 200
mile range and would only weigh as much as one person. And the boat
gets lighter as you use the fuel.
25-30 gals of water can last me a long time on the hook, many days for
two people easily. I usually don't drink water from the boat's tank. I
use it for wash water (showers, dishes, etc.) For most of my trips I
carry drinking water separately. My boat holds a *lot* of water and I
rarely fill the tank all the way. I just put in around double what I
think I'll need untill I can refill the water tank again. If I know
I'll be gone for 2 weeks or more, I'll fill it all the way up. That's
170 gallons. I've never run out.
But you don't use fuel on the hook, just getting to where you want to
gunkhole.
Steve
Skipper
> But you don't use fuel on the hook, just getting to where you want to
> gunkhole.
That's a bit shortsighted.
--
Skipper
Steven Shelikoff
>>A 135 mile radius? That gets you there but not back. That range only
>>gives you a 67 mile radius if there's no fuel where you're going. And
>>that assumes the weather stays nice, and that all your fuel is used to
>>get there and back and none to tool around wherever you're going. If
>>you want to go somewhere that doesn't have fuel, motor around for an
>>hour or two and come back, you can only go maybe 40-50 miles away.
>
>My example was based on a Seattle area boater. Do you know of any direction in
>which one can cruise for 67 miles from Seattle and not encounter at least one
>fuel dock enroute? I suppose you *could* endlessly circumnavigate Vashon Island
>until you ran out of fuel, without making a short detour to Des Moines, Gig
>Harbor, Pt. Defiance, etc. :-)
I don't know Seattle waters very well. I guess it also depends on the
time of day. You only have a little more then 5 hours at cruise speed
before you use up *all* your fuel. With a 10% reserve, you're a little
over 4 1/2 hours between each refueling. Not only is that inconvenient
but if you're cruising at night, your choices for fuel go way down... at
least around here. So you have to wait until morning for the docks to
open. I don't buy fuel very often so I don't know all the fuel docks
around here. But of the 5 or 6 I'm familiar with, only one is open 24
hours. How about in Seattle?
Steve
Gould 0738
Gould 0738
>open. I don't buy fuel very often so I don't know all the fuel docks
>around here. But of the 5 or 6 I'm familiar with, only one is open 24
>hours. How about in Seattle?
>
>Steve
None that come to mind, although I buy fuel two or three times a year, whether
I need it or not, and have never needed a midnight fuel dock. :-)
Greg O
> Scott McFadden wrote:
>
> > Skipper wrote:
>
> >> Mosquito Lagoon? Hot humid MOSQUITO infested Mosquito Lagoon is at the
> >> *top* of your list?
>
> > Go google up -world class redfishing- and see what comes up.
>
> > Even a complete and total novice, such as yourself, can hire one of
> > the two dozen or so guides that work the area and catch them.
>
> You know, I did Google up "World class fishing" and came up with this
> list:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/e39c
>
> Funny thing is that list sort of directs one towards the West Coast. Not
> much about central Floriduh. Perhaps it's my limited Googling
> experience.
>
Any mention of great fishing in Kansas?
Greg
Eisboch
>
> Not much about central Floriduh there either. Everything seems to point
> west when it comes to world class fishing. Why do you think that is?
>
Because Derby, Kansas only has enough installed bandwidth to permit the west
coast edition of Google.
Eisboch
Skipper
>> You know, I did Google up "World class fishing" and came up with this
>> list:
>> Funny thing is that list sort of directs one towards the West Coast. Not
>> much about central Floriduh. Perhaps it's my limited Googling
>> experience.
> Any mention of great fishing from Kansas?
Suppose that depends on just how versatile ones boat is.
--
Skipper
Steven Shelikoff
Well, ok. I guess you use fuel to charge batteries. Which makes a 55
gal tank even more of a problem. How many more ways do you use fuel
with your 2252 while anchored?
Steve
Skipper
> Skipper wrote...
>> Not much about central Floriduh there either. Everything seems to point
>> west when it comes to world class fishing. Why do you think that is?
> Because Derby, Kansas only has enough installed bandwidth to permit the
> west coast edition of Google.
You think?
--
Skipper
Lee Yeaton
news:pYOFa.1934$3o3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Just because the websites use those words in their meta tags doesn't mean it
is world class anything.
If I built a website about Derby, Kansas and entered those words in the meta
tags and then submitted it to Google and the other search engines and
directories eventually Google and the others would show Derby Kansas as
having world class fishing. But we know that'll never happen.
- - - - -
Lee Yeaton
Aboard "No Worries"
1985 Carver 3207
www.thebayguide.com
The boats of rec.boats
www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Skipper
> Skipper wrote:
>> Steven Shelikoff wrote:
>>> But you don't use fuel on the hook, just getting to where you want to
>>> gunkhole.
>> That's a bit shortsighted.
> Well, ok. I guess you use fuel to charge batteries. Which makes a 55
> gal tank even more of a problem. How many more ways do you use fuel
> with your 2252 while anchored?
The 2252 does not use fuel to recharge the batteries at anchor. The
starting and house batteries are quite adequate. You mentioned
gunkholing, and fuel for the Avon came to mind. I don't think your
original statement was restricted to the 2252, however. When you look at
the possibilities for using fuel at anchor, generators come to mind.
--
Skipper
Skipper
> Just because the websites use those words in their meta tags doesn't mean
> it is world class anything.
> If I built a website about Derby, Kansas and entered those words in the
> meta tags and then submitted it to Google and the other search engines
> and directories eventually Google and the others would show Derby Kansas
> as having world class fishing. But we know that'll never happen.
Are you contending that it is not possible to participate in world class
sportfishing or go get a crabburger in your boat *from* Kansas?
--
Skipper