Forget healthcare, focus on employment
Tom Francis - SWSports
still so fragile and unemployment moving toward double digits, could
make it appear that the administration has its priorities confused.
While affordable health care is critically important to Americans,
making a living is more urgent. Yet the administration�s efforts to
date on this more basic concern have been neither particularly visible
nor coherent.�
http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/11/health-care-reform-is-critically.html
nom=de=plume
message news:27ubf51idshq9u04q...@4ax.com...
So, you support this then:
"The current rate of unemployment would have been even higher were it not
for the federal stimulus package, but the stimulus should have been much
larger. "
--
Nom=de=Plume
jps
Don't confuse him. He's only interested in cherry picking what works
in his favor. As if he's ever agreed with anything Robert Reich has
proffered in the past.
Canuck57
I don't see the correlation. In fact the more corruption-debt spend
Obama spews, the further Amerca goes into the pit. As no one in the
world, even many investing Americans have faith on a government printing
money like Monopoly money. Sooner or later the debt-spend ponzi bubble
is going to burst.
Reagan did it right, lower taxes leaving the money with the people, but
lib-dims fealt they knew best. But like many, we are now realizing
Obama has lots of talk and lots of excuses but no good results to show
for $1.3 trillion debt spend.
The dumbshit doesn't get it, this "Great Government/Debt Depression of
2008-20xx" is all about debt including the governments whopping defunct
debt. Chinese are asking the government to back it's currency, not
dilute it.
And the price will be high, we are still in a nose dive into this
depression. And it will continue until government gets a grip on
reality, it is broke and is going to have to spend a whole lot less in
the future.
elmer
> ?Obama?s focus on health care rather than jobs, when the economy is
> still so fragile and unemployment moving toward double digits, could
> make it appear that the administration has its priorities confused.
> While affordable health care is critically important to Americans,
> date on this more basic concern have been neither particularly visible
>
> http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/11/health-care-reform-is-critically.html
Well the Department of Commerce and the Department of State should be
renamed the American jobs export departments.
There is no discussion going on about halting their export that anyone
heard about.
Wall Street and Global Banking are making all the policies.
wf3h
<removeem...@rejectswsportsdot.org> wrote:
> “Obama’s focus on health care rather than jobs, when the economy is
it's impossible to separate the issues. perhaps reich should ask the
unemployed about how they're handling their healthcare. betcha most
don't have any
wf3h
> I don't see the correlation. In fact the more corruption-debt spend
> Obama spews, the further Amerca goes into the pit. As no one in the
> world, even many investing Americans have faith on a government printing
> money like Monopoly money. Sooner or later the debt-spend ponzi bubble
> is going to burst.
yeah. the debt bubble caused by bush. the biggest spender in US
history....while he cut taxes for the rich
>
> Reagan did it right, lower taxes leaving the money with the people, but
> lib-dims fealt they knew best.
reagan....another big spender who balanced the budget on the middle
class while cutting taxes for the rich. in fact this latest bubble had
its roots in reagan's fanatical hatred for the middle class; he caused
the HUGE disparity in middle class/rich incomes...the biggest in the
western world
>
> The dumbshit doesn't get it, this "Great Government/Debt Depression of
> 2008-20xx" is all about debt including the governments whopping defunct
> debt. Chinese are asking the government to back it's currency, not
> dilute it.\
gee. why not get goldman sachs to do something about it? reagan's
'supply side (voodoo)' economics certainly had a hand in the current
crisis.
nom=de=plume
news:iqrJm.10357$ZF3....@newsfe13.iad...
Whatever you say. BTW, 9/11 was Obama's fault.
--
Nom=de=Plume
Canuck57
> On Nov 7, 11:03 pm, Canuck57 <Canuc...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I don't see the correlation. In fact the more corruption-debt spend
>> Obama spews, the further Amerca goes into the pit. As no one in the
>> world, even many investing Americans have faith on a government printing
>> money like Monopoly money. Sooner or later the debt-spend ponzi bubble
>> is going to burst.
>
> yeah. the debt bubble caused by bush. the biggest spender in US
> history....while he cut taxes for the rich
Bush didn't accumulate debt at a rate of $1.3 trillion in 8 months.
Obama did. And it was a Dim-wit congress that told and funded Bush to
do war.
Which I agree they should have told the president it was war. What I
disagree with is that it should have never been occupied war, just bomb
them to hell then get out. But this digesses to a whole different subject.
>> Reagan did it right, lower taxes leaving the money with the people, but
>> lib-dims fealt they knew best.
>
> reagan....another big spender who balanced the budget on the middle
> class while cutting taxes for the rich. in fact this latest bubble had
> its roots in reagan's fanatical hatred for the middle class; he caused
> the HUGE disparity in middle class/rich incomes...the biggest in the
> western world
Reagan's only real mistake was not to reduce government spending to
match which grew the debt big time. And alter, dim-wit congress never
put it back in order letting the debt ride and grow even bigger. But at
least America got out of a recession for the debt.
Obama, $1.3 trillion later and still nose diving into depression. Obama
has nothing to really show for this massive rapid debt growth that is
small by comparison to Reagan. It isn't a recession any more, it is a
depression. Caused by government fiscal irresponsibility, massive
unpaid debts and massive bailout corruption.
If Obama really wanted to fix things he would retroactive reinstate
debtors court. And go after the Wagoners. But many are Harvard boys.
>> The dumbshit doesn't get it, this "Great Government/Debt Depression of
>> 2008-20xx" is all about debt including the governments whopping defunct
>> debt. Chinese are asking the government to back it's currency, not
>> dilute it.\
>
> gee. why not get goldman sachs to do something about it? reagan's
> 'supply side (voodoo)' economics certainly had a hand in the current
> crisis.
Actually it was Carter who did the banks in by allowing too much
leveraging. All for an artifically low interest rate. It removed the
checks and balances of savings versus debt tilting towards debt.
Before, if there was a shortage of money to loan, then rates would go up
to discourage more debt and bring things back to reality.
But the liberal democrats removed it so banks could issue tones of
artifically cheap debt, turning both the government and the countyr into
a nation of ponzi and insatiable debtors... until Sept 2008 when the
ponzi bubble burst. Since then most governemtns including DC, haven't
been able to borrow to meet their needs.
USA and Canada are in fact on the verse of currency bankruptcy. That is
why gold is up there, anticipating massive government defaults on debt.
Already occuring, California IOUs, DC creating record amounts of
inflationary cash to pay the bills.
That is why China is mad, they hold $2 trillion of USDs and are watching
its value decrease. One day they will just start dumping it and all
hell will break lose with inflation.
Just think, some Chinaman now has more poer over US inflation han does
the US government. Debtors know, you put us there.
Canuck57
Nope, America's (and Canada's) debt is making the policies. No one
wants to be stuck with USD or CAD currencies in inflation due to
currency devaluation. Between debt and trade deficits, the liberal line
of credit to continue is at an end.
Debt is doing this. Lots of unpaid, defunct and debt including the
worst offender, government.
Think, some Chinaman managing the $2 trillion USD on cash deposit has
more to say about the US economy than does Obama the debtor. When you
owe others, they have more control over you. Right now USA is a debt
whore in a bad mood because the bills are coming due. Obama can rant
all he wants, but USA has lost it's ecomonic might to debt.
When a company like GM welches on so much debt, and is allowed to
criminally operate with so much debt, means effors like SOX was total
bullshit from the administation. It smashes the US credit rating right
along with lenders who want out of US treasuries.
Right now the administration and congress are playing chicken with the
debt, and in the end we will be the losers if we are not very careful.
Canuck57
>> still so fragile and unemployment moving toward double digits, could
>> make it appear that the administration has its priorities confused.
>> While affordable health care is critically important to Americans,
>> date on this more basic concern have been neither particularly visible
>>
>> http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/11/health-care-reform-is-critica...
>
> it's impossible to separate the issues. perhaps reich should ask the
> unemployed about how they're handling their healthcare. betcha most
> don't have any
Probably do, but once the severances run out, likely not.
But that is why Obama is playing health care, trying to take avantage of
the situation to sell the unthinkable to many. Government knows it
can't raise taxes like it wants to, so the next best thing is to get the
health care revenue going to governemnt as to liberally skim it for more
government debt-spending. That is, get the revenue, lower the services
for all and later use it as an excuse to raise taxes. Just like they do
in Canada and the UK.
Amercans who support giving the feds this much power over their lives
are really dumbshits and don't deserve their liberty. Once the
unemployed GM dumbshits get a job, the taxes will be waiting for them,
and too late to stop it. Real short term thinkers.
nom=de=plume
> wf3h wrote:
>> On Nov 7, 11:03 pm, Canuck57 <Canuc...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I don't see the correlation. In fact the more corruption-debt spend
>>> Obama spews, the further Amerca goes into the pit. As no one in the
>>> world, even many investing Americans have faith on a government printing
>>> money like Monopoly money. Sooner or later the debt-spend ponzi bubble
>>> is going to burst.
>>
>> yeah. the debt bubble caused by bush. the biggest spender in US
>> history....while he cut taxes for the rich
>
> Bush didn't accumulate debt at a rate of $1.3 trillion in 8 months. Obama
> did. And it was a Dim-wit congress that told and funded Bush to do war.
Correct. Obama had little choice but to do that.
Correct. Congress was lead by the nose re the Iraq war. That doesn't excuse
Bush/Cheney lying about it though.
>
> Which I agree they should have told the president it was war. What I
> disagree with is that it should have never been occupied war, just bomb
> them to hell then get out. But this digesses to a whole different
> subject.
>
>>> Reagan did it right, lower taxes leaving the money with the people, but
>>> lib-dims fealt they knew best.
>>
>> reagan....another big spender who balanced the budget on the middle
>> class while cutting taxes for the rich. in fact this latest bubble had
>> its roots in reagan's fanatical hatred for the middle class; he caused
>> the HUGE disparity in middle class/rich incomes...the biggest in the
>> western world
>
> Reagan's only real mistake was not to reduce government spending to match
> which grew the debt big time. And alter, dim-wit congress never put it
> back in order letting the debt ride and grow even bigger. But at least
> America got out of a recession for the debt.
This is the failed economics policy that got us into trouble to begin with.
Gov't has a role, and part of that role is regulating companies and the
financial market to ensure they don't cause the kinds of problems that they
caused.
> Obama, $1.3 trillion later and still nose diving into depression. Obama
> has nothing to really show for this massive rapid debt growth that is
> small by comparison to Reagan. It isn't a recession any more, it is a
> depression. Caused by government fiscal irresponsibility, massive unpaid
> debts and massive bailout corruption.
Nope. Things are getting better. This just sounds like the typical
Obama-is-bad rant.
>
> If Obama really wanted to fix things he would retroactive reinstate
> debtors court. And go after the Wagoners. But many are Harvard boys.
Debtors court? Chapters 7 and 13 are alive and well. On what grounds would
you "go after" Wagoner?
>>> The dumbshit doesn't get it, this "Great Government/Debt Depression of
>>> 2008-20xx" is all about debt including the governments whopping defunct
>>> debt. Chinese are asking the government to back it's currency, not
>>> dilute it.\
>>
>> gee. why not get goldman sachs to do something about it? reagan's
>> 'supply side (voodoo)' economics certainly had a hand in the current
>> crisis.
>
> Actually it was Carter who did the banks in by allowing too much
> leveraging. All for an artifically low interest rate. It removed the
> checks and balances of savings versus debt tilting towards debt. Before,
> if there was a shortage of money to loan, then rates would go up to
> discourage more debt and bring things back to reality.
>
> But the liberal democrats removed it so banks could issue tones of
> artifically cheap debt, turning both the government and the countyr into a
> nation of ponzi and insatiable debtors... until Sept 2008 when the ponzi
> bubble burst. Since then most governemtns including DC, haven't been able
> to borrow to meet their needs.
>
> USA and Canada are in fact on the verse of currency bankruptcy. That is
> why gold is up there, anticipating massive government defaults on debt.
> Already occuring, California IOUs, DC creating record amounts of
> inflationary cash to pay the bills.
>
> That is why China is mad, they hold $2 trillion of USDs and are watching
> its value decrease. One day they will just start dumping it and all hell
> will break lose with inflation.
China is also intricately tied to our economy. Sure, they could dump
dollars, but that would hurt them even more than us. They know this. They
also know that we are the economic engine of the world.
> Just think, some Chinaman now has more poer over US inflation han does the
> US government. Debtors know, you put us there.
Sort of, but sort of not. Maybe it isn't a chinaman but a chinawoman.
--
Nom=de=Plume
Canuck57
> Correct. Congress was lead by the nose re the Iraq war. That doesn't excuse
> Bush/Cheney lying about it though.
Know a politicians that doesn't lie? Bush or Obama?
> This is the failed economics policy that got us into trouble to begin with.
> Gov't has a role, and part of that role is regulating companies and the
> financial market to ensure they don't cause the kinds of problems that they
> caused.
Agreed. So why is government so stoned to persue more debt when debt is
the problem? Suicidal? Just too stupid to see liberalizing the banks
leverage rates for artificially low debt rates, so they could borrow
more is a dumb assed thing to do?
>> Obama, $1.3 trillion later and still nose diving into depression. Obama
>> has nothing to really show for this massive rapid debt growth that is
>> small by comparison to Reagan. It isn't a recession any more, it is a
>> depression. Caused by government fiscal irresponsibility, massive unpaid
>> debts and massive bailout corruption.
>
> Nope. Things are getting better. This just sounds like the typical
> Obama-is-bad rant.
How can unemploymentjump .4% in a month and a end to the recession has
occured? I smell BS and so should you.
Government treats recession as GDP, unadjusted for inflation. When in
fact they should view net income and average take home. You can't have
perpetual economic growth while people and business have less money.
GDP is going up as the cost of commodities like oil are coming off the
lower hedge rates. Costs being passed on through the system, generate a
higher GDP but do NOT generate more income and jobs for people.
Take this months annocement of GDP growing with less jobs and less
national wage income as a sure fire indication 2010 is going to be the
year of inflation.
I view the rescession is over when I see job growth and GDP growth is
higher than the supply chain inflation. Quit a different metric as I
account for inflation and deflation.
>> If Obama really wanted to fix things he would retroactive reinstate
>> debtors court. And go after the Wagoners. But many are Harvard boys.
>
> Debtors court? Chapters 7 and 13 are alive and well. On what grounds would
> you "go after" Wagoner?
I am talking serious debt law. Not panzi turn stile like GM.
>> USA and Canada are in fact on the verse of currency bankruptcy. That is
>> why gold is up there, anticipating massive government defaults on debt.
>> Already occuring, California IOUs, DC creating record amounts of
>> inflationary cash to pay the bills.
>>
>> That is why China is mad, they hold $2 trillion of USDs and are watching
>> its value decrease. One day they will just start dumping it and all hell
>> will break lose with inflation.
>
> China is also intricately tied to our economy. Sure, they could dump
> dollars, but that would hurt them even more than us. They know this. They
> also know that we are the economic engine of the world.
True, but as time progresses China's economy is growing, abet slower but
growing to a point where US influences are diminishing.
>> Just think, some Chinaman now has more poer over US inflation han does the
>> US government. Debtors know, you put us there.
>
> Sort of, but sort of not. Maybe it isn't a chinaman but a chinawoman.
I stand corrected. Chinese person. But in any case, they have Obama by
the shorts. Similarily the Saudis. Ever wonder why the Saudis don't
pay for US protection in the middle east? Imagine if Osama Bin Laden's
brother liquidated the families US currency in 7 days or less. Related
to Carlye, of GM fame too.
Politicians are lying their asses off on this.
SteveB
>> yeah. the debt bubble caused by bush. the biggest spender in US
>> history....while he cut taxes for the rich
huh? Obama has spent more in ten months than bush spent in eight years.
What the hell you been smoking?
Your knowledge of economics is worse than mine. You know what the rich
would do with a tax cut right now? Expand and put people to work.
Moron.
Steve
nom=de=plume
> nom=de=plume wrote:
>
>> Correct. Congress was lead by the nose re the Iraq war. That doesn't
>> excuse Bush/Cheney lying about it though.
>
> Know a politicians that doesn't lie? Bush or Obama?
No. But I do know the difference between lying that cost 5000 US soldiers
their lives and nuance misdirection.
>> This is the failed economics policy that got us into trouble to begin
>> with. Gov't has a role, and part of that role is regulating companies and
>> the financial market to ensure they don't cause the kinds of problems
>> that they caused.
>
> Agreed. So why is government so stoned to persue more debt when debt is
> the problem? Suicidal? Just too stupid to see liberalizing the banks
> leverage rates for artificially low debt rates, so they could borrow more
> is a dumb assed thing to do?
Because sometimes debt is a good thing. I know this is contradictory, but
it's a fact. Sometimes the gov't has to spend money it doesn't have to
finance things that need to be done.
>
>>> Obama, $1.3 trillion later and still nose diving into depression. Obama
>>> has nothing to really show for this massive rapid debt growth that is
>>> small by comparison to Reagan. It isn't a recession any more, it is a
>>> depression. Caused by government fiscal irresponsibility, massive
>>> unpaid debts and massive bailout corruption.
>>
>> Nope. Things are getting better. This just sounds like the typical
>> Obama-is-bad rant.
>
> How can unemploymentjump .4% in a month and a end to the recession has
> occured? I smell BS and so should you.
Job growth always lags recovery. It's a historical fact. The rate of new
unemployment is dropping. That's a good thing. It's going to take a while to
bottom out and start back up.
>
> Government treats recession as GDP, unadjusted for inflation. When in
> fact they should view net income and average take home. You can't have
> perpetual economic growth while people and business have less money.
>
> GDP is going up as the cost of commodities like oil are coming off the
> lower hedge rates. Costs being passed on through the system, generate a
> higher GDP but do NOT generate more income and jobs for people.
It's unclear. You can't have perpetual growth, correct. Some of the is
speculative. We'll just have to see how it plays out.
> Take this months annocement of GDP growing with less jobs and less
> national wage income as a sure fire indication 2010 is going to be the
> year of inflation.
There's no such "sure fire" indication. It's possible, but the Fed is pretty
good these days with keeping tabs on inflation. The more likely event will
be a slight increase in inflation and a big reaction from the Fed to stop it
in its tracks.
> I view the rescession is over when I see job growth and GDP growth is
> higher than the supply chain inflation. Quit a different metric as I
> account for inflation and deflation.
That's certainly a valid way to look at the end of recession when job growth
happens from a non-technical view, but it's not how economists look at it.
The technical end of the recession has happened. That doesn't mean things
are fine and dandy. It's a technical measure. It's even possible for us to
go back into a recession. That's one reason to spend even more money right
now, as the future debt can be dealt with if certain measures (read regs)
are effective going forward.
>>> If Obama really wanted to fix things he would retroactive reinstate
>>> debtors court. And go after the Wagoners. But many are Harvard boys.
>>
>> Debtors court? Chapters 7 and 13 are alive and well. On what grounds
>> would you "go after" Wagoner?
>
> I am talking serious debt law. Not panzi turn stile like GM.
What's not serious about 7 or 13? I'm unsure what you're advocating.
>>> USA and Canada are in fact on the verse of currency bankruptcy. That is
>>> why gold is up there, anticipating massive government defaults on debt.
>>> Already occuring, California IOUs, DC creating record amounts of
>>> inflationary cash to pay the bills.
>>>
>>> That is why China is mad, they hold $2 trillion of USDs and are watching
>>> its value decrease. One day they will just start dumping it and all
>>> hell will break lose with inflation.
>>
>> China is also intricately tied to our economy. Sure, they could dump
>> dollars, but that would hurt them even more than us. They know this. They
>> also know that we are the economic engine of the world.
>
> True, but as time progresses China's economy is growing, abet slower but
> growing to a point where US influences are diminishing.
Also true, but this is a 25-50 year problem. We need to consider this,
certainly, but not at the expense of people who are just trying to get by.
>>> Just think, some Chinaman now has more poer over US inflation han does
>>> the US government. Debtors know, you put us there.
>>
>> Sort of, but sort of not. Maybe it isn't a chinaman but a chinawoman.
>
> I stand corrected. Chinese person. But in any case, they have Obama by
> the shorts. Similarily the Saudis. Ever wonder why the Saudis don't pay
> for US protection in the middle east? Imagine if Osama Bin Laden's
> brother liquidated the families US currency in 7 days or less. Related to
> Carlye, of GM fame too.
Well, they might have us (not Obama) by the short hairs, but we still have a
lot of capacity. Same with the Saudis. They need us, but we need them (for
now). Drill baby drill sounds good, but it won't fix the short term problem,
and it won't fix the long term problem, because we can't drill enough. We
need alternative energy.
> Politicians are lying their asses off on this.
Nothing new. That's why we need a strong 2nd party, not a bunch of
right-wing crazies that have no hope of getting elected. Take the two
congressional districts (23rd in NY, 10th in Calif.). Both were contestable
districts, but the righties made them purity contests. Big mistake. Take the
two governorships that went Republican. They're a wake-up call to Democrats
to remember to energize the base AND to be more centrist.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
news:5hnks6-...@news.infowest.com...
Nope. If the rich got a tax cut, they wouldn't do anything differently. Not
how it works. However, if you give the middle class a tax cut, they spend it
on things they need or save it.
--
Nom=de=Plume