Marine Starter Motors
DAN
We have a 15' ski boat with a 350ci chevy in it (maranised car engine)
etc...
We seem to be having endless problems with starter motors. I believe the
ones we have been putting on are standard car type starters, but they seem
to be continually effected by water/condensation (it's located at the bottom
of the motor, close to the hull/any water that may be sloshing around in
there), to the point where to engine won't start after a period of time.
If the boat's taken out of the water for a while, the kicked over again, it
starts. I presume this is because the water has dried up. Now, eventually
the started will rust a cease up and will need to be replace. Apart from
being an expensive exercise, it's kind anoying when the boat won't start in
the middle of the day when you want to hit the water for a ski.
Are there such things as maranised starter motors? If so, where can I get
one (I'm in Sydney Australia) and what do the cost. If not, has anyone else
experienced this or know what I could do to solve the problem?
Cheers
DAN
Gfretwell
they will lock up on a hot motor. You may need a good car mechanic to get it
right. They probably just slap them in since you are standing on your head in
the bilge.
Rod McInnis
DAN wrote:
> We have a 15' ski boat with a 350ci chevy in it (maranised car engine)
> etc...
Pretty big motor for such a small boat....
> We seem to be having endless problems with starter motors. I believe the
> ones we have been putting on are standard car type starters, but they seem
> to be continually effected by water/condensation (it's located at the bottom
> of the motor, close to the hull/any water that may be sloshing around in
> there), to the point where to engine won't start after a period of time.
I wouldn't expect problems from it just being damp, as the starter on
a car is pretty much exposed to the elements. If the starter is getting
dunked then I would expect that there would be no end to problems.
>
> If the boat's taken out of the water for a while, the kicked over again, it
> starts. I presume this is because the water has dried up.
I wouldn't make that assumption. There are several ways that water
can affect the operation of an electrical device.
The water can create short circuits. This is usually what happens in
radios and other electronic equipment that deals with very tiny amounts
of current where even a small leakage will seriously impact operation.
A starter draws hundreds of amps and you are not going to short that out
with water!
The water can prevent electrical contact: This is a possibility,
although I would expect the brushes on the starter to be able to wipe
the water clear of the commutator.
The water can corrode things. Bearings can freeze up, the commutator
can get really messed up, the windings can corrode and fail. None of
these things would improve once the boat sat for a while.
It sounds to me like it is more of a temperature problem than a water
problem. I have encountered situations where the starter was not
aligned to the engine properly and it would jam under certain
conditions, and these conditions were temperature sensitive.
> Are there such things as maranised starter motors?
Yes, and if the engine is enclosed you should certainly be using one.
Unfortunately, the marine versions are special regarding their flame
suppression and will offer nothing regarding water proofness.
Rod
jobro
news:XKut8.52$pf5....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
> Hi,
>
> We have a 15' ski boat with a 350ci chevy in it (maranised car engine)
> etc...
>
> We seem to be having endless problems with starter motors. I believe the
> ones we have been putting on are standard car type starters, but they seem
> to be continually effected by water/condensation (it's located at the
bottom
> of the motor, close to the hull/any water that may be sloshing around in
> there), to the point where to engine won't start after a period of time.
Gfretwell <gfre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020412110706...@mb-cu.aol.com...
I agree with this - The mechanics I've worked with all told me this. It
seems to be a rule of thumb with GM starters that it's usually better to
rebuild the old starter rather than replace it because of the shimming
issues, and that you need to use a mechanic that's conscientious enough to
know about this and fit it correctly.
Yes, there is such a thing as a marinized starter, and sometimes people to
go the cheap route and use automotive starters, although it is a serious
no-no, as far as I've been told. (I'm not an expert, I rely on the advice
of good mechanics) Whoever you have work on the replacement should be able
to tell you if it is marinized or not. I'm not sure exactly what they do to
marinize the starter, but it has to do with making it more resistent to
moisture and safer (spark control?).
I had a jet boat with a GM 5.7l V8 that had an automotive starter in it when
I bought it, which I didn't know until I had to replace it later the first
season. This was probably because the guy who owned it before me was too
cheap to buy a marinized. Anyway, I replaced it with brand new marine
starter and it was quite expensive betwen the difficult installation of the
starter, the marine starter itself, and the fact the mechanic had to shim it
properly. I kept the old one and had it rebuilt and marinized at a local
automotive electrical repair shop. This was a routine operation for them,
and it was painted black (is this routine for marine starters? The new one
I bought was also black).
I kept the original one so I'd have a properly shimmed spare. Around here
we do a lot of long trips into the remote wilderness and having a backup
starter, while not "common", is not a bad idea. I'm not a mechanic so I'd
be breaking new ground to pull one and replace it in the middle of the
boondocks, but I carried the tools, and figured that I'd be more likely to
come across someone who could replace a GM starter in the backcountry than
the starter itself! Plus the mechanic showed me how to do it (all I
remember is that it involved contortions and cursing).
Even if I had to replace it in town, having a properly shimmed spare would
save a few days of down time and some labor costs because the mechanic
wouldn't have to send it off for rebuild or mess around with shimming.
Also, from my experience, I had decided that the location of the starter on
a GM V8 marine engine made it tough on starters because of the heat and
moisture way down there in the bilge. But, the rebuild on my last starter
was not all that expensive - cheap enough so, if I still had the boat, I'd
consider doing it on a schedule depending on the hours I was running, rather
than waiting for it to fail. But again, I did a lot of boating where
failure could mean being stranded in the backcountry rather than just a
missed day on the water.
Cheers,
Dan Johnson
Charlie
I replaced the one on my 5.7 L Merc (a GM 350 CID) a few years ago. Beware
though there seem to be different "tooth per inch"counts - my mechanic
replaced the starter with the wrong one, and chewed up a flywheel and the
new starter.
I replaced it again by myself, and all went well - but I made sure that the
gears actually meshed properly.
Good luck with it.
Charlie
M/V Wavelength
"DAN" <ydou...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XKut8.52$pf5....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
572
I had a similar problem with my older jetboat with a 455 Olds, replaced the
starter a couple of times with a rebuilt automotive starter and finally went
with a Tilton starter about 12 years ago and haven't had a problem since. It
appears that they are also available in Aus. too
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~earls/starters.htm My newer jet has a top mount
starter that is located on top of the flywheel and out of the bilge away from
the moisture. You can get away with an automotive starter if you have an open
engine compartment,if not get a marine version that is spark protected
Chris Watkins
>
> FWIW, Arco makes an aftermarket marine starter that does NOT need shimming.
>
This is never 100% true when dealing with a small block Chevy.
It may be that the starter is machined to more demanding tolerances
than other brands, but there's no way the starter manufacturer can
account for differences in the *blocks* themselves ;)
(The tolerances are pretty good, but the blocks are mass-produced,
and occasionally one is going to go out just barely "in-spec")
Consider yourself lucky, is all I can say.
Once one happens upon a starter casing, that requires no shims
with one's particular block, he should hang onto it, IMHO.
> I replaced the one on my 5.7 L Merc (a GM 350 CID) a few years ago. Beware
> though there seem to be different "tooth per inch"counts - my mechanic
> replaced the starter with the wrong one, and chewed up a flywheel and the
> new starter.
Rare, but something to look out for.
Call it a misbox from the manufacturer. (2 different part #'s)
It's happened to me once, too. I caught it right away though.
Something about *that* sound is hard to miss.
Just my $.02
--
Remove the spamhole to reply.
DAN
problem!
The maranised Chevy starters are about AU$1100 each (about $550 US) which
may be out of the price range.
Cheers
DAN
"DAN" <ydou...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:XKut8.52$pf5....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
Gfretwell
"marinized".
DAN
starters which are quite expensive!
From what I've heard on here, and from doing a ring around to a few shops, a
shim kit is the way to go, just takes a bit of time and patience!
DAN
"Gfretwell" <gfre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020415124116...@mb-mq.aol.com...
Gfretwell
There are just a couple extra S/S screens in the bells to make them explosion
proof. If you are not afraid to take your shiny new "auto" alternator apart you
can swap the marine parts in. Everything else is bone stock car parts right
down to the part numbers molded in the cases. It is probably just as easy to
just get the kit and rebuild it yourself if you are taking it apart anyway.
It is low volume, not high technology that makes a marine part.
jobro
> I understand that the shims are not marinized, but you can get marinized
> starters which are quite expensive!
>
> From what I've heard on here, and from doing a ring around to a few shops,
a
> shim kit is the way to go, just takes a bit of time and patience!
>
> DAN
Dan, check around - you might find a rebuilt /marinized starter for a lot
less than that. In fact, if you have one that fits, get a quote on rebuild
with and without marinization. I mentioned in an earlier post that I had a
broken automotive starter pulled out of my inboard (GM 350/5.7 block),
rebuilt and marinized at the same time. The marinization part of the price
was not very much. I do remember very distinctly that when I bought a *new*
marinized starter it was *very* expensive and getting the other one
rebuilt+marinized one was much, much less. Again, what I was told by my
mechanic was that while marinization was not necessary for the starter to
work, an automotive starter is unsafe and not as durable in the marine
application. I just go along with what he tells me because he's got a good
reputation, and has always done right by me - so fwiw, ymmv, etc. Have fun!
Dan
Calif Bill
the inside and a small screen.
Bill
"jobro" <job...@compuserveDOT.com> wrote in message
news:a9ptjp$mds$1...@suaar1ab.prod.compuserve.com...
Steve Barker
about it, why would it take any more starter to turn a low compression boat
motor than it would for a late sixties hypo 327?? Its the same starter.
--
===============
Steve
"Calif Bill" <bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:a9r3mk$vlo$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
Rod McInnis
DAN wrote:
> The maranised Chevy starters are about AU$1100 each (about $550 US) which
> may be out of the price range.
I don't know what the laws are in your country, but here in the USA
there is a legal requirement to have the marine versions. While many
people disregard this rule, it can be cause for your insurance company
to ignore you if you have a claim that is related to improper equipment.
AU$1100 may be a bit out of your price range, but a multi-million
dollar lawsuit if your boat blows up and takes a bunch of other boats
with is is definitely out of the price range.
Rod
Calif Bill
San Jose Starter and Generator will sell you a Marine Gear Drive starter for
a Ford for $135 no exchange. Chevy should be cheaper. For that price, you
could get it shipped to Aus airfreight and still save $350.
Bill
"Rod McInnis" <rmci...@TiVo.com> wrote in message
news:3CC49DE3...@TiVo.com...
Steve Barker
starter IS $50. Go to your local electric motor rebuilder, more than likely
he builds marinised starters.
--
===============
Steve
"Rod McInnis" <rmci...@TiVo.com> wrote in message
news:3CC49DE3...@TiVo.com...
>
>
Wayne "Ratbo" Canino
Heh! Just call the local eatery and ask for an order of marinated
starter.....
-W
"Steve Barker" <saba...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ruky8.52585$HK4.11...@twister.kc.rr.com...
R. Kelly
reruns of TNN's Best of Monster Truck Mayhem and trust him to totally
encapsulated the winding, solenoid and field coil assembly?? Why not pay the
extra bucks and get the "right" starter to begin with, you el-cheapo !! Bob
( Murymann).
"Steve Barker" <saba...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ruky8.52585$HK4.11...@twister.kc.rr.com...
Wayne "Ratbo" Canino
"luxury" and the vendors have the mentality that if you "can afford a boat"
you can afford to be bent over every time you want a part for your boat.
Inject "fear" and "safety" into the mix and you can really screw em over.
One of the few ways to fight back a little is to use a little know-how (when
you can) to get around the bastages insatiable desire for our money.
In the case of the starter, it seems easy enough to take the old one apart
and use it as a template to marinate a new one. I'd prolly do it myself to
make sure it was done at least as good as (or better) than factory. Lets
face it - DC motors are no longer rocket science 100 years after their
invention. Anyone with the mechanical ability to change a starter *should*
be able to take the time to dissasemble one - particularly when motivated by
the fact that he'll probably earn (via savings) more money per hour for his
effort than his "real job" pays him.
-W
"R. Kelly" <rakw...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:tIRy8.51988$%s3.21...@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...
Gfretwell
indication be prepared to be underwealmed. The alternator simply has a couple
S/S screens over the vent holes
Mpseeley
co. has to pay the tab, You'll want to have USCGA approved parts. Are they more
expensive.....yes. are you getting anymore than an auto part? probably not. If
you've paid auto and boat insurance for the last few years, you'll realize
that it's just that, insurance. Spend the bucks and buy the right part.
Calif Bill
a flame could propagate through in case there were fumes ignited internally.
Bill
"R. Kelly" <rakw...@attbi.com> wrote in message
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