Owning a Marina
Larry Weiss
into the marina business. An opportunity has presented itself that I am
seriously exploring. If the numbers come out right I just may proceed.
It is a potentially great opportunity to purchase a going concern that
I've had my eye on for years. It is a profitable, popular and well
maintained establishment.
I have 30 years of experience running successful businesses and
entrepreneurial ventures (some of it even dabbling in the boating
industry dealing with marinas and yards), and I've been around boats
longer than that, so I don't think I have any disillusions over what I
may be getting myself into here. That being said, my experience tells
me that I can't think of everything. So I thought it wise to put this
out here.
If you've been in and around this business I'd appreciate any and all
input. Share your experiences with me. What's it like dealing with
government agencies and local residents? Tell me your horror stories
with employees and the weather and taxes. How is it working with fuel
vendors and running a snack bar and pumping gas and dealing with an
irate customer at the same time when your employees don't show up? How
do you keep the manager you trusted from running off with the day's
receipts? What must a truly honest and cordial businessman know and do
to survive in what can sometimes be a very dirty business? How do you
handle it when every service customer wants their boat ready at the same
time - "now"? What can you tell me about that I probably haven't
thought of? Share some of the good stuff, too.
Dave Brown, Boat Basin (if you're still out there), Harry, any others,
help me out here. Share your wisdom, your glories, your pain. Or - as
the Cowardly Lion so eloquently put it in The Wizard of Oz, "just one
thing ... talk me out of it"!
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!'
"a little after..."
Gigatec
bill is that at the end, any marina that dosnt take advantage of the boater
will make lots of money and to be honest Id love to own such a place.
I have had many dealings with marina's a lot good but too many turn out
costly and its not because of US or CAN it's short sited people not relising
long term rewards..here is a true story
I purchased a 35ft Hillyard sailbaot from a guy in England..boat was in
River Bend Marina in FL
I asked them two haul the boat and of course it took twice as many guy's at
well okay it was a reasonable price I think around 250 that like 400
Can..lolo
Anyway I otherised them to haul it and step the mast and set it on the
Hauler's trailer ..of course I couldnt be there but I Did everything I could
to get it ready ..I faxed day's ahead of time to ensure they would be
ready...I even called the night before and was told everything was ready
When the boat got to Canada my shipper was just shocked at the conduct of
these people, the mast when steped they forgot to disconect the wiring...it
got riped out of the deck...they smashed nav lights and when the shipper got
there they had not started and in fact the power for the boat had been
disconected...water was a foot up on the cabnets inside...then when they
hauled it they DRILLED holes in the planks to drain her....did I mention
they ran her into the wall as well cracking a rib.
Well I bitch at them but not much I could do since all I could due is sue
and across boarders...yikes very costly..the big shock was when I got my
Visa...I was charged $2,500.00US thats like what $3,500Can to haul a boat!!!
I called Visa and upon there investigation they found that they had no
otherisation for that amount and canceled there Visa charge all together.
The same day another boater in our marina was chatting turns out he purchsed
a CC landfall from them with the sim problems..the end result ...they didnt
get payed but my boat was damaged.
Over billing in the industry takes place all the time in Canad...and as of
yet nothing is there to stop it like Mecanic's in the car industry..fact is
alot of marina's band together to creat a monopoly that can not be touched
and they can raise prices with out a check in place..in the US you can
ancour where sites are allowed with out cost we do not have such here...we
ancor and the marina's bitch..
If your course is to be a fair person and can hold yourself to that...you
will do well word will spread but if your not ...well boats all chat...as
River bend is slowly finding out
Raymond T. Lowe
facilities, dock size, ????????
RT
--
Remove "bogus" to reply by email
"Larry Weiss" <lil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3C484340...@ix.netcom.com...
Larry Weiss
of varying sizes (can accommodate up to 140 feet along the main dock if
needed), repair (engine and fiberglass), dealership potential (although none
exists at this time), lots of boater amenities (pool, snack bar, chandlery,
barbecue/picnic area, lawn, etc), gas dock (diesel too), good transient
business, well located on a safe calm estuary just off a river heavily
traveled and enjoyed by recreational boaters and cruisers, strong local
clientele, extra land for some other waterfront development (townhouses,
restaurant potential), near a popular and well developed watefront area. Did
I leave anything out? :^)
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."
Larry W4CSC
slip space in Charleston, SC. Lots of local boats are tied up to the
transit docks waiting their turn and paying through the nose.
$9-10/ft/month is about the cheapest, here.......
Larry W4CSC
spami...@knology.net
Leggester
for many folks.
Do we get a discount for the NG? ;)
Foxtrot2
If you offer maintenance/repair you will have insurance issues/costs to work
through as well as finding and keeping qualified mechanics. Environmental
issues with fuel docks and pump outs. Finding good employees who know the
different aspects of the business, including the yard, boat repair, store
and office. Long hours. Keeping a large number of customers happy,
including when things happen which are out of your control (power outage on
a 95 degree weekend night when most of your boaters are spending the night
on their air conditioned boat). Dredging/water levels at the marina. On
going dock, building and grounds upkeep. The list goes on.
On the other hand it looks like it can be a most enjoyable business,
especially since you love boating.
I wish you the best of luck in whatever you end up deciding to do.
"Larry Weiss" <lil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3C484340...@ix.netcom.com...
Larry Weiss
discount for rec.boaters? By all means!!
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."
Joseph M Tyson
Start with two million and get out quick!
If you are contemplating a marina in the NY Metro area you'd best have a
trust fund. Lot's of wealthy guys have gotten in late and gotten out quick.
I wish the very best fortune whatever path you wind up taking.
Harry Krause
> Well, as I approach 50, the possibility has come up in my life to get
> into the marina business. An opportunity has presented itself that I am
> seriously exploring. If the numbers come out right I just may proceed.
> It is a potentially great opportunity to purchase a going concern that
> I've had my eye on for years. It is a profitable, popular and well
> maintained establishment.
>
>
I owned a marina, one that made a decent profit for many, many years. It
was my father's. When he died, I worked very hard to sell it.
These days, I wouldn't own a marina as a gift. Too many ways to not make
money, too many hours, too many idiots as customers.
--
Harry Krause
- -
MAD Magazine named Konservative Rev. Jerry Falwell the "dumbest person
of 2001" for blaming the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on gays and
lesbians, feminists and other groups. "We thought Falwell had reached
his personal pinnacle of dumbness a few years ago when he accused the
Teletubbies of promoting homosexuality," said MAD editor John
Ficarra. "Give the guy credit, we underestimated him."
Boatbasin
Larry, there is a bit of help and adviseI could give you if you decide to make
the plunge. There is no better life as far as I am concerned. The money is not
so bad either. Everything depends on how much you buy it for as compared to
the income. Look at it first and foremost as a business and do not let
emotions take too much of a part in it. Good luck, get in touch with me if
you need me.
Mark
Jack Patteeuw
>
> Well, as I approach 50, the possibility has come up in my life to get
> into the marina business.
1) You had better be a "people person" and be able to accept the good with
the bad. Remember "You can't please all of the people all of the time", but
"You can keep the least number of people pissed off !"
2) You can't do it all. Your employees will be the ultimate success or
failure of this endeavor. Do you have a really good mechanic ? Is s/he
likely to stay (i.e. are they paying him enough) ? How many mechanics
do you need for peak business and can you afford them in the off season ?
The same questions apply to employees.
If your 30 years of business experience dealt with both the "buying public"
as well as employees, you've got chance.
--
Jack Patteeuw
Honlpsr
As I may recall from a few exchanges in the past, you were located on Long
Island. Yes? I'm very curious what river.
Larry, LI, NY
aboard the Emerald Lady
Raymond T. Lowe
you are getting into. A large dock equals large upkeep, nevermind the
rest of the buildings. A marina is a huge responsibility and the novelty
will wear off. It should be structured such that another person/couple/
employee can take over at times to give you a break if its as big as you
imply. And Harry is right! Too many idiots will drive you right over the
edge.
If your still serious, its very important you get full access to the books
going back at least 4 years. You don't want any surprises. Ask your-
self why are they selling it? Any zoning or other local government
changes pending? Is something(s) very expensive need work.
Wouldn't want to see your dream turn into your nightmare.
RT
--
Remove "bogus" to reply by email
"Larry Weiss" <lil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3C487CE0...@ix.netcom.com...
Bert Robbins
"Raymond T. Lowe" <rtl...@bogustelus.net> wrote in message
news:3O428.37941$e4.97...@news0.telusplanet.net...
>
> If your still serious, its very important you get full access to the books
> going back at least 4 years. You don't want any surprises. Ask your-
> self why are they selling it? Any zoning or other local government
> changes pending? Is something(s) very expensive need work.
>
> Wouldn't want to see your dream turn into your nightmare.
Demand to see the business' tax returns for the last three or four years.
Get the copies from the tax preparer and have them notarize the copies.
Most people don't overstate their income or understate their expenses on
their tax returns.
Bert
Larry Weiss
Yes, Long Island indeed. Can't release too much information yet to the
public. I'm only in the "exploring" stage. If you know me, you know the
river.
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."
stevec
replacing , cleaning up ?
I've seeing lots of prime real estate gas stations abandoned around my
town.
Gould 0738
1) The numer of owners said marina has had in the last 15-20 years. How many
sales vs. bankruptcies?
2) Condition of infrastructure. In some areas, environmental restrictions are
becoming so severe that it is almost impossible to replace pilings or dredge to
maintain existing moorage, and forget about expansion.
3) Unless the current owner is selling because he's made a $zillion and needs
to
take time off to spend it all, you might discover you're just buying a job...a
job in which the paychecks may be irregular during the lean times.
4) Upland development. In some areas, (such as WA State), marinas get assessed
based on the value of adjacent uplands. When the tarpaper lean-to across the
road gets ripped down and the high rise condos go in instead, taxes can go up
to an astronomical figure....even when the marina itself hasn't been improved.
5) Is there an aquatic lands lease? Some localities hold title to all tidelands
more than X feet from the shoreline and lease the space back to marina
operators. When the lease runs out, some areas make it pretty difficult for the
operator to renew.
We went through a long period in WA when the previous Public Lands Commissioner
wasn't renewing anybody's lease and the status of many marinas was in "limbo"
for several years. Obviously a problem if the operator wanted to borrow money
or sell the business.
Your biggest problems aren't likely to be
your customers.....the government can give you headaches from hell.
K. Smith
Having sorta known you for some years through this NG I hope you don't take
offense or think in any way I'm being condescending because I'm not, but I say
be very careful; it's known as a glamour profession which means it's really
hard to turn a good return in.
(i) You're virtually a middleman with surprisingly little say in how you run
most of your own investment, the council, the waterways authority, the EPA, the
marine board, the mines dept (flare storage) etc etc etc all pretty much
dictate exactly how & when you'll do most everything. Each & every one of these
authorities is a not so silent & certainly non investing partner, their various
charges, licenses, cost recoveries etc etc mean a goodly part of any fees you
charge customers are on behalf of someone else, except you cop the odium of
being the tax collector.
(ii) Again not knowing the businesses you've had previously, you'll find in
this one again you're not even in control of reselling. Suppliers/manufacturers
have it pretty down pat these days, you pay a top invoice price, then. if you
behave & don't over discount, if you don't over support a competing brand, if
you meet their mostly arbitrary sales targets, if you pay full invoice on time
every time, if you generally grovel to their local sales rep, then hopefully
they'll magnanimously "offer" you the top available rebate off your total
purchases. Was a time only big ticket items came with strings & seeing they
used the retailer as defacto free warehousing it was generally accepted, these
days even things as lowly as marine electronics worth a few hundred dollars
come with targets, rebates, incentives attached. All this means you can still
have a big publicised discount sale, but so long as it's "co-ordinated", code
for approved by the pimply kid sales rep from the supplier. Don't even think
about fighting the system it eats big meals when aroused.
(iii) Staff, again not knowing your history but the marine industry doesn't
much come with firm standards imbedded, so a marine mechanic can be a person
who's been trained by one of the OB manufacturers & had virtually no other
formal training, they may even be very good at what they do, but they'll almost
certainly only ever be any good at that one thing & constantly let you know. So
expect to employ more than you think you should, paperwork is a particular
worry with most "hands on" marine types. Honesty is no better of worse I
suspect than anywhere, but remember your staff might be monkeying around with a
very wealthy litigious customers pride & joy.
(iv) The "normal" costs are ALL higher in a marine environment; from the
usual maintenance, power supplies, phone lines etc etc to the not so visible
insurances, which have recently gone through the roof here. The public risk
liability stuff puts a real floor under your fixed costs, which customers can't
ever see & again like all your other silent partners, you cop the odium of
being the evil collector.
(v) Competition; it's a tough business lots of discounters, big catalogue
sellers etc. Once you've paid your money & locked yourself into a geographic
site & cost structure, there's no way out but a sale to another cashed up like
yourself. Those friendly locals before you owned the site will become jealous
swarming white ants. They'll enter the premises & steal your work, they'll put
your insurance at risk, they all know a bloke who can undercut you, for a
commission back to them of course, on most anything from fuel to electronics.
Don't imagine they'll be grateful for you providing a base of customers , a
clean insured work place for them or even a toilet for them, on the contrary
they'll shit can you at every turn, all trying to get a piece of the action
created & maintained by your investment. Any attempt to curtail the activities
of the white ants is difficult, the customers see it as you stopping them
getting access to cheaper rates & won't hear of it if you try to explain white
ants don't have overheads, indeed they're operating off the back of yours
albeit in flip flops from the back of a truck, there's laws which prevent you
from all sorts of protective actions against white ants, they're mostly well
intentioned & valid but it seems every white ant is a bush lawyer when it comes
to any law they perceive goes their way.
(vi) Customers; some are nice some are not & apart from the usual wanting as
much as they can get for as little or nothing as they can, from Jimmy's uncle
Warren to a street sweeper, they'll all personally resent you making anything
out of their hobby. They're absolutely correct when they say most prices
including yours in the industry are a blatant rip off, but again the real
profiteers are the hidden people who you give the money to or more accurately
who you wait on, eating your liver every 3 mths to see if you'll be getting
your full rebates or if that cheap contract supply you did to the water taxi
fleet cutting out the local electronics bloke is going to count against you.
Again you are the front person for the system which means if you don't have the
hide of Jessy; you soon will;-)
(vii) All the advise about books, tax returns etc is valid but if you've
been around a while you'll know none of them are a cast iron guarantee of
anything, other than the bloke really wants to sell. If the books AND tax
returns make it look like a really good deal something's rotten & it's not the
cheese. Do your own research it takes time & effort but watch the business &
the prices, ask users without divulging your motives, any recent price
fluctuations? if they get any cash rebates or discounts? any pending problems
like say a spill? Lots of people plan to sell their business in the future so
they give out magnanimous discounts or seemingly are slack at collections all
so the books etc look good & yes if it's a big ticket business they'll even pay
a bit extra tax for the last few years. Try to get a feel for & then check the
cost of inputs rather than concentrating on the claimed incomes, if something
even seemingly minor doesn't gel, investigate it to the very end as to why.
e.g. lots of claimed & yes documented liveaboards, yet the electricity &
water/sewerage bills don't mirror this, why/how?? Casual talking to the
customers reveals lots are itinerants so selling now might be when it looks
best or maybe lots of refitters who are notorious as chiselers of everything &
not just the wood in the refit.
I hope you enjoy your new venture, as a hated front man for the mob ;-)
Best regards,
K
Boatbasin
>was my father's. When he died, I worked very hard to sell it.
>
>These days, I wouldn't own a marina as a gift. Too many ways to not make
>money, too many hours, too many idiots as customers.
Strange Harry, A few years ago you were claiming your father sold the marina
for developement before he died, rest his soul. Now you were the "marina owner"
who worked very hard to sell it?
When are you going to learn not to give worthless advise about subjects you
have no personal knowlege of? You have no expert advise as to marina
ownership, but I bet you are well versed at being a "idiot customer". Oh,
Thats right, you welch on all your bets.
Mark
Harry Krause
>>I owned a marina, one that made a decent profit for many, many years. It
>>was my father's. When he died, I worked very hard to sell it.
>>
>>These days, I wouldn't own a marina as a gift. Too many ways to not make
>>money, too many hours, too many idiots as customers.
>>
>
>
> Strange Harry, A few years ago you were claiming your father sold the marina
> for developement before he died, rest his soul. Now you were the "marina owner"
> who worked very hard to sell it?
Nope, never claimed that. My father died and I inherited the marina and
then sold it. You have your facts wrong. Not a surprise.
--
Harry Krause
- -
The most persistent threat to freedom, to the rights of Americans, is
fear. - George Meany
Boatbasin
liquidated.
Compare this sentence of yours:
>>>I owned a marina, one that made a decent profit for many, many years. It
with:
>Nope, never claimed that. My father died and I inherited the marina and
>then sold it
So you owned a marina?
How about your Mother, wouldn't she be the inheritor of the estate?
Then, of course, there is:
"I worked there full time for a month and sold the place out to the bare
walls.... I set my mother up for retirement in Florida and was out of the boat
business...something my father had
started in 1945...in less than 60 days.
So you have a grand total of 60 days in running a Marina by yourself. Heady
experience. Definately enough to make pronouncements as to the state of marina
ownership today.
Mark
Harry Krause
I worked at the marina off and on for many years and was always involved
in its management. I certainly liquidated it in a hurry after my father
died. I had no desire to operate a marina. Too many hours, not enough
$$$. The marina indeed made a decent profit, but only because it had
most of my dad's personal attention for all those years.
Not that it is any of your concern, but in response to your question,
*I* inherited my dad's business operations. My mother inherited the real
property. I didn't want to run the marina and separate boat dealership
and she wanted to move to Florida. Ergo, we liquidated the businesses
and sold off the real property. It was the right thing to do.
There are far better ways to get a good ROI than buying and operating a
marina...and...you don't have to put up with the idiots who are marina
patrons.
--
Harry Krause
- -
So far as power is concerned, does anyone believe it an accident if the
price of gasoline goes up at one company's pumps, it soon is matched
exactly at the pumps of other companies? - Jimmy Hoffa
Foxtrot2
"Boatbasin" <boat...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20020119085835...@mb-mm.aol.com...
Actually he has offered no proof in the past that he ran it. He has,
however, admitted in the past was nothing more than a "go-fer" for the
marina. I am sure his mother, the office manager or the yard manager "ran"
it for those 60 days following his fathers death.
Nothing the guy does or says surprises me. He is an admitted liar who must
always play by his rules and backs out on bets. I am doubtful he owns a
boat. I am doubtful he is married.
He now claims to have "owned" a marina, only to be proved wrong once again,
and this time by his own words.
How did Chuck describe him? Oh yes, a "stunted, maladjusted personality
desperate for any available forum".
Harry Krause
>
>>
>
> Actually he has offered no proof in the past that he ran it. He has,
> however, admitted in the past was nothing more than a "go-fer" for the
> marina.
Sorry, Trots (ever have the trots), but my days as a "gofer" at the
boatyard ended in my early teens.
I am sure his mother, the office manager or the yard manager "ran"
> it for those 60 days following his fathers death.
You are? You'd be wrong. My mother was an accountant. She kept the books
at the family business, but that's all, and showed up once a month for
an afternoon as a "courtesy bookkeeper."
What did your mom do? I mean, aside from having her tubes tied after you
were born...
--
Harry Krause
- -
What more sacred property rights are there than the right of a man to
his job? - Upton Sinclair
Charles T. Low
Many marina owners that I know rarely get to go boating anymore!
Charles
====
Charles T. Low
ct...@boatdocking.com
www.boatdocking.com/
www.ctlow.ca/
====
K. Smith
> Foxtrot2 wrote:
> >
> >>
> >
> > Actually he has offered no proof in the past that he ran it. He has,
> > however, admitted in the past was nothing more than a "go-fer" for the
> > marina.
>
> Sorry, Trots (ever have the trots), but my days as a "gofer" at the
> boatyard ended in my early teens.
>
> I am sure his mother, the office manager or the yard manager "ran"
> > it for those 60 days following his fathers death.
>
> You are? You'd be wrong. My mother was an accountant. She kept the books
> at the family business, but that's all, and showed up once a month for
> an afternoon as a "courtesy bookkeeper."
>
> What did your mom do? I mean, aside from having her tubes tied after you
> were born...
Yep that's funny ;-)
K
Foxtrot2
"K. Smith" <drift...@nospamiprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3C49EB1E...@nospamiprimus.com.au...
> Harry Krause wrote:
>
> > Foxtrot2 wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> > > Actually he has offered no proof in the past that he ran it. He has,
> > > however, admitted in the past was nothing more than a "go-fer" for the
> > > marina.
> >
> > Sorry, Trots (ever have the trots), but my days as a "gofer" at the
> > boatyard ended in my early teens.
> >
> > I am sure his mother, the office manager or the yard manager "ran"
> > > it for those 60 days following his fathers death.
> >
> > You are? You'd be wrong. My mother was an accountant. She kept the books
> > at the family business, but that's all, and showed up once a month for
> > an afternoon as a "courtesy bookkeeper."
> >
> > What did your mom do? I mean, aside from having her tubes tied after you
> > were born...
> Yep that's funny ;-)
>
> K
Are we fan of Harry's childish insults Kay? Glad to see you could say it in
less than 1,000 words.
Larry W4CSC
sand, the Tonka trucks and screaming at each other.
What's wrong with us? Look in a mirror! The group is DISINTEGRATING!
STOP, PLEASE!
Larry W4CSC
spami...@knology.net
Foxtrot2
"Larry W4CSC" <spami...@knology.net> wrote in message
news:3c4a0d84...@isp-east.usenetserver.com...
Larry, chill out. This is just a NG. Nothing more. If you don't like the
thread or the direction it is heading, don't read it. If you don't like
the cast of players, ignore them. Simple as that. Take some control of
your life for Christ's sake.
Trust me, the world is not coming to an end and neither is rec.boats. Go
back 5 years you will see the same type of threads from a different cast of
characters, although one Harry Krause would be in the thick of things, even
back then. This NG has survived those 5 years despite him. It will survive
another 5 years even with him and this new cast of characters (realizing I
am one of them).
The bottom line is that you can ignore the threads and persons you believe
causing the problems or you can continue to read them and then complain
about them. Seems like a simple choice to me.
It is your choice Larry.
Larry W4CSC
>
>Larry, chill out. This is just a NG. Nothing more. If you don't like the
>thread or the direction it is heading, don't read it. If you don't like
>the cast of players, ignore them. Simple as that. Take some control of
>your life for Christ's sake.
It is now, but it wasn't "just a newsgroup". There were presidents of
boat manufacturers, like Peggy, active on here to help people with her
products and others, no matter whos head was clogged up. She's
gone....
There was Dave, a very savvy dealer and great mechanic from Canada,
who'd lend a hand to anyone with a sneezing Evinrude. He's gone....
There were experienced captains who took the time to answer questions
about boat operations, rules of the road, which parts work best.
They're gone.
There were mechanics who gave their time to help fix some of the
damnedest boat problems I've ever seen. Most of them are gone.
Why? Because a small minority of us MUST get in a pissing contest
with an egotistical maniac on EVERY thread. You can set your watch by
it. It MUST degrade into a bunch of 6 year olds fighting over a Tonka
truck in the sand pile out behind the daycare. God, it's awful and
GETTING MUCH WORSE!
Look back through the threads, you included, at all the stupid little
"My dick is bigger than your dick.", "No, it's not, my dick is bigger
than your dick." just pure bullshit this newsgroup has become! It's
spilling over into cruising. I've been noticing its infecting that
group in the last few months.
Why? I got no answers. I know a lot of you have nothing better to
do. I got the Krausebot in the exclusion list, but you can't exclude
every little boy who just MUST feed that egomania.....
This thread was about Larry going in the insane marina business so he
could lose his money. It's not about Krause, or you, or any of us.
But, of course, right on CUE....That's what it's become....like every
other damned thread on rec.boats.
>
>Trust me, the world is not coming to an end and neither is rec.boats. Go
>back 5 years you will see the same type of threads from a different cast of
>characters, although one Harry Krause would be in the thick of things, even
>back then. This NG has survived those 5 years despite him. It will survive
>another 5 years even with him and this new cast of characters (realizing I
>am one of them).
>
>The bottom line is that you can ignore the threads and persons you believe
>causing the problems or you can continue to read them and then complain
>about them. Seems like a simple choice to me.
>
>It is your choice Larry.
>
I can, and do, but when someone who can REALLY contribute to the
group's BOATING issues sees the damned sandbox fights going on AD
NAUSEUM, they lurk a few days and give up, never posting a thing,
never helping Joe Doaks figure out why his engine bucks when he gooses
it. It runs all the newcomers off. Maybe you guys need to take it to
alt.sandbox.fighting and make a new thread where you can all act like
little assholes and not bother anyone. No, that wouldn't do. The
AUDIENCE has to be part of the ego trip.
Larry W4CSC
spami...@knology.net
Foxtrot2
You really don't get it. It really is nothing more than a newsgroup.
Sadly, you see it as more.
I was not around when all those people you talked about ended up leaving.
But Harry was. If you have a problem with him, be a man and tell him. Don't
generalize and lump other people into it.
Did you ever get insulted in your life? If so, did you run away crying or
did you stand up for yourself? Larry, I think you ran away crying.
Honestly. Trying being a man. Say what you mean already. If you want
Harry to leave, say it. If you want me to leave, say it. Don't whine
generalities. I seem to think you did the same thing last year, just about
this time, picked up your ball, and ran away. Are you going to do the same
thing again?
I will repeat for you my words of advise. You can ignore the threads and
persons you believe causing the problems or you can continue to read them
and then complain about them. Seems like a simple choice to me. But pick
one and stop the whining.
Boatbasin
>marina...and...you don't have to put up with the idiots who are marina
>patrons.
>
>
>--
>Harry Krause
And with that one sentence you accurately describe why it was best you never
got into the marina business yourself. You think marina patrons are idiots. I
think they are the salt of the earth (even the ones that are idiots). I also
think, from my limited exposure to him, that Larry would be terrific in the
marina business. He seems to be genuinely fond of boating and boaters. He
also has a steady enough temperence as to not lash out at others for percieved
slights. He also has the business acumen to own a large nice boat, and to be
interested in buying a presumably fairly expensive marina. I may be wrong. I
have a feeling I am not.
Mark
John Hollands
argumentative to participate.
This bullshit and the previous tedious, childish nonsense about regional
politics and monuments are the reasons I will - most likely - UNsubscribe
and leave you all to it.
Who would want to go back 5 years in your archives? I'm gagging after 5
minutes.
It's sad to me. A waste of what could be a fine NG.
You know, there ARE groups which cater specially for childish tirades -
alt.abuse, things like that. Otherwise most NGs suggest disputes between
individuals be taken off-list. I guess that would be less satisfying for the
offending individuals.
> "Larry W4CSC" <spami...@knology.net> wrote in message
> news:3c4a0d84...@isp-east.usenetserver.com...
> > And, as usual, the thread degrades into the sandbox brawl throwing
> > sand, the Tonka trucks and screaming at each other.
> >
> > What's wrong with us? Look in a mirror! The group is DISINTEGRATING!
> >
> > STOP, PLEASE!
> >
RichG
forget the nutcases. They apparently are on every newsgroup, in some form.
If you drove down a street that took you where you wanted to go... and
nutcases with big stupid signs flanked every corner, would you stop driving
on the street?
Just close your window and pay NO attention to the signs!
--
RichG ( :^) )
rgr...@houston.rr.com
"John Hollands" <johnho...@hotkey.net.au> wrote in message
news:3c4c1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Leggester
Charles
Boatbasin wrote:
>
> And with that one sentence you accurately describe why it was best you never
> got into the marina business yourself. You think marina patrons are idiots. I
> think they are the salt of the earth (even the ones that are idiots). I also
> think, from my limited exposure to him, that Larry would be terrific in the
> marina business. He seems to be genuinely fond of boating and boaters. He
> also has a steady enough temperence as to not lash out at others for percieved
> slights. He also has the business acumen to own a large nice boat, and to be
> interested in buying a presumably fairly expensive marina. I may be wrong. I
> have a feeling I am not.
And let's remember that all the personal stories that krause is
constantly coughing up here have at least two common elements: one, they
are self-aggrandizing and two, they are unverified, and probably unverifiable.
-- Charlie
Keith
dollars. Never mind that you started with two million.
> Larry Weiss
> "...Ever After!'
> "a little after..."
--
__________________
Keith
A good plan executed right now is far better than a perfect plan
executed next week." - George S. Patton
Larry Weiss
Thanks for some wise and insightful advice.
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."
"K. Smith" wrote:
> Larry you did ask ;-)
>
> Having sorta known you for some years through this NG I hope you don't take
> offense or think in any way I'm being condescending because I'm not, but I say
> be very careful; it's known as a glamour profession which means it's really
> hard to turn a good return in.
>
> [snipped]
Larry Weiss
I am coming from.
Let me ad that so called "idiots" make up a large part of the customer base in any
business operation. They key to turning most so called "idiots" into good, happy
customers is to truly listen to their issues and do one's best to resolve them.
When one listens, one learns that, in the majority of cases, a so called "idiot" is
really just a good person who is having some difficulty communicating. Trust me,
in my current business there are a lot of "idiot" type issues. I have never lost a
client to a competitor because I practice good listening skills and genuine
concern. I can not in any way imagine someone like Harry being able to do this;
thus, to him, the marina patrons are automatically "idiots", not people.
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."
Larry Weiss
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."
Larry Weiss
truly appreciate all the responses and all of it has been noted*. There are
indeed some wise and experienced folks participating here on rec.boats.
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."
*(except, of course, the extraneous childish nitpicking and arguing, which
has, once again, been ignored).
Larry Weiss wrote:
Peter Kay
> argumentative to participate.
>
> This bullshit and the previous tedious, childish nonsense about regional
> politics and monuments are the reasons I will - most likely - UNsubscribe
> and leave you all to it.
>
> Who would want to go back 5 years in your archives? I'm gagging after 5
> minutes.
>
> It's sad to me. A waste of what could be a fine NG.
>
> You know, there ARE groups which cater specially for childish tirades -
> alt.abuse, things like that. Otherwise most NGs suggest disputes between
> individuals be taken off-list. I guess that would be less satisfying for
the
> offending individuals.
>
file, still one or two names I recognise but many have gone. Scanning the
subject lines there seem to be a lot more blatant off topic threads. I won't
stick around as I now own a sailboat and this was always a predominantly
power boat orientated group. I just popped in as a matter of interest, more
of the shit, less of the boats. Still lots of HK
--
Regards,
Peter
Remove everything after uk to reply
http://www.mistressofmourne.com
RGrew176
>Thanks. All good advice.
>
>Larry Weiss
>"...Ever After!"
>"a little after..."
>
Larry, from what I have seen in my 4 1/2 years of participation in this NG you
are probably the most likely person to succeed in the marina business. You seem
to have the necessary demeanor.
I will be moving from my current home to a new location. I have searched for a
new marina closer to my new home but have not found any that are as good as
where I am now. I will not for the forseeable future be moving my boat to
another marina. I will stay put. They treat me like I am their only customer
when we have contact with each other. If you treat each and every customer like
they are your only customers you will succeed.
I wish you every success and good luck.
84 days to go..
Larry W4CSC
<lil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Thank you everyone for some really excellent ideas, opinions and advice. I
>truly appreciate all the responses and all of it has been noted*. There are
>indeed some wise and experienced folks participating here on rec.boats.
>
>Larry Weiss
So? Can we come to the closing?.....hee hee....(c;
Larry W4CSC
spami...@knology.net
Larry Weiss
Larry W4CSC wrote:
Well, there is a whole lot of ground to cover between now and then, and a whole
lot of obstacles in the way, any one of which can kill the deal. I have no
desire to get myself into anything that may be a loser. Even if something
doesn't "feel" right, I may pass. That being said, if all goes well and we
actually make it to a closing, you are all, by all means, all invited to the
party afterward.
Bill Grannis
>
>
> Well, there is a whole lot of ground to cover between now and then, and a whole
> lot of obstacles in the way, any one of which can kill the deal. I have no
> desire to get myself into anything that may be a loser. Even if something
> doesn't "feel" right, I may pass.
Larry,
Contact the International Marina Institute, http://www.imimarina.org/,
they have courses on marina purchasing, operations, and management.
Their insight may help you with your decision.
Bill Grannis
service manager
JimDandy
> argumentative to participate.
>
> This bullshit and the previous tedious, childish nonsense about regional
> politics and monuments are the reasons I will - most likely - UNsubscribe
> and leave you all to it.
>
> Who would want to go back 5 years in your archives? I'm gagging after 5
> minutes.
>
> It's sad to me. A waste of what could be a fine NG.
>
> You know, there ARE groups which cater specially for childish tirades -
> alt.abuse, things like that.
Do you mean for people such as you? Talk about a childish tirade!
Typical pot calling the kettle black.
Larry W4CSC
If you get that serious, make sure your "survey" of the property
includes a survey of the electrical system by a competent electrical
company. The electric systems of the docks is always ignored during
ownership. Some of them are in very poor condition and are very
expensive to repair.....
Larry W4CSC
spami...@knology.net
Larry Weiss
Yes, I know. And I have the electrolysis damage on my boat to prove it!
Larry Weiss
Larry Weiss
"...Ever After!"
"a little after..."
Larry W4CSC
wrote:
>
>Yes, I know. And I have the electrolysis damage on my boat to prove it!
>
Are you SURE you want 50 irate boaters bitching at you all the
time?....(c; Man THIS is a rough group!!
Larry W4CSC
spami...@knology.net
Charles
Larry W4CSC wrote:
> Are you SURE you want 50 irate boaters bitching at you all the
> time?....(c; Man THIS is a rough group!!
Actually, if you picked 50 posters from this group, I'd say that 98% of
them are really nice ppl.
The other 2% -- we all know who they are -- foul the waters for
everyone.
-- Charlie
Larry W4CSC
wrote:
>
>
>Larry W4CSC wrote:
>
>> Are you SURE you want 50 irate boaters bitching at you all the
>> time?....(c; Man THIS is a rough group!!
>
>Actually, if you picked 50 posters from this group, I'd say that 98% of
>them are really nice ppl.
Hey, you and I are some of the nicest people on usenet, aren't
we?...(c;
>
>The other 2% -- we all know who they are -- foul the waters for
>everyone.
>
ONE boat without a holding tank can ruin the whole dock party.....
Larry W4CSC
spami...@knology.net
wf...@ptd.net
wrote:
>Okay - here is how to make a million in the marina business.
>Start with two million and get out quick!
>If you are contemplating a marina in the NY Metro area you'd best have a
>trust fund. Lot's of wealthy guys have gotten in late and gotten out quick.
>I wish the very best fortune whatever path you wind up taking.
>
>
why is that? NYC's prices are so high, they blow even san francisco
away. (pier 39 slip prices are roughly comparable to prices in the
chesapeake...NYC is about double that).
---------------------
"This difference between liberalism and conservatism
must not be obscured by the fact that in the United
States it is still possible to defend individual
liberty by defending long-established institutions.
To the liberal they are valuable not mainly because
they are long established or because they are
American but because they correspond to the
ideals which he cherishes."
F. A. Hayek in "Why I am not a Conservative"
SAIL LOCO
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport