rotten floor replacement
Jerry Hahn
out the old and is going to replace it. Seem to remember this topic a few
months ago but don't remeber the details as I didn't follow it then.
Can he use treated plywood, as marine plywood is not carried around here?
Should a sealer such as Thompsons Water Sealer be applied on it to help
water proof it or leave it plain? It is going to have a layer of FG matting
appplied over the top of it after its installed. What about using Liquid
Nails for the bonding along with screws to fasten to stringers and other
flooring structures? And finally, a web site that might detail the process
of fiberglass repair in easy and simple to follows terms?
Thanks
Jerry
--
You can lead me to the water, but not away from it.
Gould 0738
layup.
Using plain old barn-siding plywood with a water repellant brushed on is not
going to
produce acceptable results, FRP matting or not.
Is anybody else having trouble buying marine plywood? That could be an ominous
development.
________
Chuck Gould
Float and let float.
well...@my-deja.com
"Jerry Hahn" <jerry...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> Looking for some advise here. Brothers boat floor has rotten so he has
cut
> out the old and is going to replace it. Seem to remember this topic a
few
> months ago but don't remeber the details as I didn't follow it then.
> Can he use treated plywood, as marine plywood is not carried around
here?
> Should a sealer such as Thompsons Water Sealer be applied on it to
help
> water proof it or leave it plain? It is going to have a layer of FG
matting
> appplied over the top of it after its installed. What about using
Liquid
> Nails for the bonding along with screws to fasten to stringers and
other
> flooring structures? And finally, a web site that might detail the
process
> of fiberglass repair in easy and simple to follows terms?
> Thanks
> Jerry
I have done this, you can cut out your old floor, leaving a 2" ridge
around the inside then fit a new floor over it, or you may be able
to get by with just replacing the rotted section. The important thing if
you do a partial replacement is to insure that everything below is dry
this can be time consuming. I spend a week of evenings with hair dryers
under the deck.
A great resource avbailable on the web is:
http://www.rotdoctor.com/ Great products that work and a nice FAQ.
I treated the wood floor with their products and instead of recarpeting
made a fitted piece of carpet that snaps in place over the floor. When
it get's wet I remove the carpet and let it and the deck dry
seperately. After 2 years the deck is as strong as ever and no signs of
rot returning.
Hope this helps,
Ray
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
hkr...@capu.net
>
> 4) Bought a piece of 3/4 in EXTERIOR grade plywood from home depot.
> You absolutely need exterior grade. For a boat floor, you do not need
> marine grade, which is what is needed for below waterline applications.
Uh...what suddenly qualifies *you* to state whether marine grade ply should or
should not be used in boats?
--
Harry Krause
------------
Raise your IQ: eat gifted children.
hkr...@capu.net
>
> hkr...@capu.net <hkr...@capu.net> wrote:
> * Igor wrote:
> *
> * >
> * > 4) Bought a piece of 3/4 in EXTERIOR grade plywood from home depot.
> * > You absolutely need exterior grade. For a boat floor, you do not need
> * > marine grade, which is what is needed for below waterline applications.
> *
> * Uh...what suddenly qualifies *you* to state whether marine grade ply should or
> * should not be used in boats?
>
> This is about facts, not qualifications.
>
> The difference between marine grade and exterior grade (besides the
> fact that the marine plywood has no internal voids, which is not that
> important for a floor) is in how they handle continuous contact with
> water. Marine grade plywood uses glues (phenolic based, for instance),
> which resist CONTINUOUS water presence better than the glues used
> for exterior grade plywood.
If I am spec'ing plywood for a small boat, my first assumption is that much of
it will be in continuous contact with water. If that boat has a deck (or floor,
if you prefer), my assumption would be that it would be awash in water, from
water that splashed aboard, from water that collected in the bilges, from an
accumulation of rainwater while it was on its trailer with the drain plug
closed, et cetera.
> None these differences is important for a typical trailerboat floor,
> which for all intents and purposes is affected by weather in much the
> same way as a barn floor. It is covered by canvas most of the time,
> and is only lightly wetted (not submerged) when the boat is out. If the
> plywood is properly coated by epoxy, there should be zero water damage.
Fortunately, you are not in the boat building business. I've been on many small
boats where the deck was awash. I've seen the result of using less than marine
plywood in boats, even on boats where the ply was skinned in fiberglass.
--
Harry Krause
------------
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away....
Maguire
While I don't agree with hkrause's snooty little flame, you are wrong about the
glues used in plywood.
The same glue is used for marine and exterior grade ply. The main difference
between the 2 is the quality of the veneers, and the fact that marine is supposed
to have no interior voids.
Maguire
Igor wrote:
> hkr...@capu.net <hkr...@capu.net> wrote:
> * Igor wrote:
> *
> * >
> * > 4) Bought a piece of 3/4 in EXTERIOR grade plywood from home depot.
> * > You absolutely need exterior grade. For a boat floor, you do not need
> * > marine grade, which is what is needed for below waterline applications.
> *
> * Uh...what suddenly qualifies *you* to state whether marine grade ply should or
> * should not be used in boats?
>
> This is about facts, not qualifications.
>
> The difference between marine grade and exterior grade (besides the
> fact that the marine plywood has no internal voids, which is not that
> important for a floor) is in how they handle continuous contact with
> water. Marine grade plywood uses glues (phenolic based, for instance),
> which resist CONTINUOUS water presence better than the glues used
> for exterior grade plywood.
>
hkr...@capu.net
>
> Igor -
>
> While I don't agree with hkrause's snooty little flame, you are wrong about the
> glues used in plywood.
>
> The same glue is used for marine and exterior grade ply. The main difference
> between the 2 is the quality of the veneers, and the fact that marine is supposed
> to have no interior voids.
>
> Maguire
>
My question was in no way snotty. Igor is new to boating and is rebuilding a
used boat he bought that has had a rough life. He is not qualified to pass
judgment on the reasons why marine ply is specified for boats. Further, there
are marine plys and there are marine plys, the veneers in the latter having had
some very special treatments in order to be more resistant to rot and therefore
more suited for boat use.
--
Harry Krause
------------
NY cops go bar-hopping; LA cops go night-clubbing.
Chris Gattman
> Here's what I did. I think that what I did would suffice for any
> trailered boat. I had a problem with about 4 sq ft of my floor.
>
> 1) I cut out the old part of the floor.
Remove the floor first, or make sure you know what's under it first.
(Sorry, this seems obvious but you hear stories about people nailing holes
right through the fiberglass.) For example, in my boat, the gas tank is
right under the plywood. Can you imagine some poor fool trying to cut out
the strip of flooring there with a power saw?
hkr...@capu.net
Harry Krause wrote:
> * If I am spec'ing plywood for a small boat, my first assumption is that
> * much of it will be in continuous contact with water. If that boat has
> * a deck (or floor, if you prefer), my assumption would be that it would
> * be awash in water, from water that splashed aboard, from water that
> * collected in the bilges, from an accumulation of rainwater while it was
> * on its trailer with the drain plug closed, et cetera.
Igor wrote:
> For normal use though, such as a boat that sits on trailer but gets on
> water once in a while, gets a lot of water splashed on, and sits dry
> in a trailer, there is no need for marine grade plywood.
There is no basis on which you can justify the above claim, Igor, other than the
fact that you are too cheap to buy a sheet of marine ply.
> When you make a new boat, especially of bigger size, you don't know how
> it will be kept. So perhaps use of marine grade ply is indeed necessary.
> My boat is a trailerboat, and its floors are not submerged in water for
> any period of time. The new floor section is completely coated with 2
> generous coats of epoxy, and is laminated with fiberglass on the top side.
Oh...marine ply *is* necessary, except on boats you own.
> * > None these differences is important for a typical trailerboat floor,
> * > which for all intents and purposes is affected by weather in much the
> * > same way as a barn floor.
> *
> * Fortunately, you are not in the boat building business. I've been on many
> * small boats where the deck was awash. I've seen the result of using less
> * than marine plywood in boats, even on boats where the ply was skinned
> * in fiberglass.
>
> Was it epoxied or laminated with polyester?
Yup.
You ought to watch "ShipShape TV." The host frequently is pulling apart boats
with rotted marine ply underlay that was encased in fiberglass. Perhaps we'll
see your boat on that show soon..."Now here's an example of a fellow who thought
he could get away with fiberglass on one side of non marine ply..."
Are you telegenic?
--
Harry Krause
------------
$^&^# NO TERRIER
bmc...@ti.com
a waterproof glue. They are not necessarily treated with copper (pressure
treatment) but can be. For a floor, especially a trailerboat, and a floor
encased in epoxy, exterior clear one side Grade A-C exterior. Says we have
possible small knotholes in the enterior, one side has no voids, may have
small oval patches. Get it treated and won't rot under most trailer boat
conditions, and with support from below, the stuff is not going to flex
much, This is not a fully encased transom that requires no voids in the
interior for strength. For fully glass encased flooring, do not need to
worry about rot, unless a hole is made through the glass, same as stringers,
being fully encased. Now if the floor is always wet, cause you park it
outside and leave the drain plug in so the boat is filled with water (and
ice in cold areas). Even the marine stuff is going to fail! Water washing
over the floor and then draining will not be these conditions.
Bill
<hkr...@capu.net> wrote in message news:392AAD5C...@capu.net...
> Igor wrote:
> >
> > hkr...@capu.net <hkr...@capu.net> wrote:
> > * Igor wrote:
> > *
> > * >
> > * > 4) Bought a piece of 3/4 in EXTERIOR grade plywood from home depot.
> > * > You absolutely need exterior grade. For a boat floor, you do not
need
> > * > marine grade, which is what is needed for below waterline
applications.
> > *
> > * Uh...what suddenly qualifies *you* to state whether marine grade ply
should or
> > * should not be used in boats?
> >
> > This is about facts, not qualifications.
> >
> > The difference between marine grade and exterior grade (besides the
> > fact that the marine plywood has no internal voids, which is not that
> > important for a floor) is in how they handle continuous contact with
> > water. Marine grade plywood uses glues (phenolic based, for instance),
> > which resist CONTINUOUS water presence better than the glues used
> > for exterior grade plywood.
>
> If I am spec'ing plywood for a small boat, my first assumption is that
much of
> it will be in continuous contact with water. If that boat has a deck (or
floor,
> if you prefer), my assumption would be that it would be awash in water,
from
> water that splashed aboard, from water that collected in the bilges, from
an
> accumulation of rainwater while it was on its trailer with the drain plug
> closed, et cetera.
>
>
> > None these differences is important for a typical trailerboat floor,
> > which for all intents and purposes is affected by weather in much the
> > same way as a barn floor. It is covered by canvas most of the time,
> > and is only lightly wetted (not submerged) when the boat is out. If the
> > plywood is properly coated by epoxy, there should be zero water damage.
>
> Fortunately, you are not in the boat building business. I've been on many
small
> boats where the deck was awash. I've seen the result of using less than
marine
Maguire
Feel better?
Maguire
John Milton
deck, or a sole, not a floor, which as I understand it is the gusset which
connects the members of a frame at their lower extremity.
I regret getting into a jargon critique but these things do have proper
names, and i see no good reason not to use them.
Jerry Hahn
Glastron Carlson 23' jetboat that is kept on the trailer with a cover and
drain plug out. Do to the nature of the boating we do, the inside stays
basically dry, except for an pop up rain. He is mainly just looking for a
dependable yet cheap fix to last at least a few years. It is the floor that
is bad, with some stringer work needed. It looks like the exterior grade
will meet his needs.
Thanks again,
Jerry
hkr...@capu.net
>
> So the debate rages between X grade and Marine ply....
>
> Igor was probably right, nothing "requires" the use of marine ply for a sole in
> a runabout since it isn't below the waterline (normally and hopefully).
>
> Marine ply is of course required in applications below the water line, because
> when good old X grade delaminates (and it most certainly will) it could lead to
> a sinking in short order.
>
> If used for a sole, the only likely consequence of good ol X grade delaminating
> will be the need to repair the
> sole yet again.
Ask Igor. That's what he did.
Harry Krause
------------
If you shoot a mime, should you use a silencer?
hkr...@capu.net
>
> Igor wrote:
> >
> > Here's what I did. I think that what I did would suffice for any
> > trailered boat. I had a problem with about 4 sq ft of my floor.
> >
> > 1) I cut out the old part of the floor.
> >
> >
> > 3) Applied epoxy solution to a bulkhead that was showing some rot, but
> > was not structurally critical.
>
> So the rot can still spread? I didn't think epoxy would stop rot from
> spreading?
>
> >
> > 4) Bought a piece of 3/4 in EXTERIOR grade plywood from home depot.
>
>
> > 5) Cut out the piece to form.
> >
> > 6) Epoxy coated it with 2 coats of epoxy, using slow hardener, at 12-24
> > hours intervals.
> >
> > 7) Laminated the top side of plywood with one layer of fiberglass cloth.
> > You need to do it to make the floor more abrasion resistant.
>
> When you added the fiberglass on top of your plywood deck you may have
> set
> yourself up for another premature failure. What typically happens is
> that
> over time the fiberglass will develop small cracks as it flexes under
> load,
> Moisture creeps into the cracks, then goes down in the wood. At this
> point
> the wood cannot breath and never dries completely, then before you know
> it rot comes back and you are replacing the deck again.
>
> This was the cause of the deck failure in my boat anyway, wherever the
> cracks
> were the rot was directly underneath.
>
> Marine grade plywood gives you an extra layer of protection. Since many
> boats have carpet over the wood deck this makes things even worse since
> the carpet retains moisture and with a boat cover on, often creates a
> perfect rot fungi breeding ground.
>
> >
> > Total: $22.
>
> Well that was certainly cheap, a 4X8 sheet of marine grade ply cost me
> ~$60
> if I recall.
>
> Ray
Maybe Igor bought his materials on the discard table.
$22 for plywood, glass, epoxy...of course it was only a four square foot patch.
--
Harry Krause
------------
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Jerry Hahn
giving the plywood a coating on both sides and allowing it to dry before it
is installed in the boat, to seal both sides? How about secureing it to the
stringers? Layer of epoxy here too then set plywood on top and hold with SS
screws? Do you use epoxy where the floor joins the FG sides too?
If I understand everyone here, no one says to apply a layer of FG over
plywood and overlap the sides, just use epoxy for the whole repair project.
Sorry for the lack of knowledge.
Thanks,
Jerry
--
You can lead me to the water, but not away from it.
>
> >
> > Here's what I did. I think that what I did would suffice for any
> > trailered boat. I had a problem with about 4 sq ft of my floor.
> >
> > 1) I cut out the old part of the floor.
> >
> > 2) Cleaned the area up.
> >
> > 3) Applied epoxy solution to a bulkhead that was showing some rot, but
> > was not structurally critical.
> >
> > You absolutely need exterior grade. For a boat floor, you do not need
> > marine grade, which is what is needed for below waterline applications.
> > 5) Cut out the piece to form.
> >
> > 6) Epoxy coated it with 2 coats of epoxy, using slow hardener, at 12-24
> > hours intervals.
> >
> > 7) Laminated the top side of plywood with one layer of fiberglass cloth.
> > You need to do it to make the floor more abrasion resistant.
>
> When you added the fiberglass on top of your plywood deck you may have
> set
> yourself up for another premature failure.
Ray
Del Cecchi
>
> So the debate rages between X grade and Marine ply....
>
> Igor was probably right, nothing "requires" the use of marine ply for a sole in
> a runabout since it isn't below the waterline (normally and hopefully).
>
> Marine ply is of course required in applications below the water line, because
> when good old X grade delaminates (and it most certainly will) it could lead to
> a sinking in short order.
>
> If used for a sole, the only likely consequence of good ol X grade delaminating
> will be the need to repair the
> sole yet again.
>
> built out of shed siding plywood and delaminating in small open boats, I could
> take a couple of years off.
>
> A good clue: "What type of material has just failed in this application?"
> Whatever is was, don't use it again.
>
> Is it better to buy marine ply once or X grade plywood over and over?
> Hmmm......
>
> ________
> Chuck Gould
>
> Float and let float.
So, out of intellectual curiosity, what exactly is the difference?
I have seen in this thread claims that the glue is the same and that it
is different. Also that the wood is treated in some fashion, and that
it is not. And it seems that there is a strength difference which would
be of little matter when considering that flat surface upon which one
stands while in a small boat.
So if I buy a sheet of "green treated" plywood, would that do the job,
remembering this is not the hull we are building.
To net it out, glue: same or different?
veneer: treated or plain?
del cecchi
well...@my-deja.com
goul...@aol.comspamkill (Gould 0738) wrote:
> Marine plywood is constructed with waterproof glue and has no "voids"
in the
> layup.
>
> Using plain old barn-siding plywood with a water repellant brushed on
is not
> going to
> produce acceptable results, FRP matting or not.
>
> Is anybody else having trouble buying marine plywood? That could be
an ominous
> development.
When doing my project I could not get it from the local Home Depot,
I was able to obtain it from a good lumber yard.
Gould 0738
Welly192
Igor wrote:
>
> Here's what I did. I think that what I did would suffice for any
> trailered boat. I had a problem with about 4 sq ft of my floor.
>
> 1) I cut out the old part of the floor.
>
> 2) Cleaned the area up.
>
> 3) Applied epoxy solution to a bulkhead that was showing some rot, but
> was not structurally critical.
So the rot can still spread? I didn't think epoxy would stop rot from
spreading?
>
> 4) Bought a piece of 3/4 in EXTERIOR grade plywood from home depot.
> You absolutely need exterior grade. For a boat floor, you do not need
> marine grade, which is what is needed for below waterline applications.
My Home Depot didn't have marine grade either..
> 5) Cut out the piece to form.
>
> 6) Epoxy coated it with 2 coats of epoxy, using slow hardener, at 12-24
> hours intervals.
>
> 7) Laminated the top side of plywood with one layer of fiberglass cloth.
> You need to do it to make the floor more abrasion resistant.
When you added the fiberglass on top of your plywood deck you may have
set
Larry W4CSC
>Igor wrote:
>
>>
>> 4) Bought a piece of 3/4 in EXTERIOR grade plywood from home depot.
>> You absolutely need exterior grade. For a boat floor, you do not need
>> marine grade, which is what is needed for below waterline applications.
>
>Uh...what suddenly qualifies *you* to state whether marine grade ply should or
>should not be used in boats?
>
>
>--
>Harry Krause
Of course, it's time for the Krausetroll to intercede....right about
HERE.
Jim Conlin
question "The floor of my BubbaCraft has gone mushy. How can I fix it with PT
plywood and bondo?"
If PT and bondo are 'good enough', why does this question get asked so often?
For the next person who feels this question, I suggest that researching a
question through dejanews.com would be a fruitful first step. Considerate, too.
hkr...@capu.net
Off your meds *again* Larry?
--
Harry Krause
------------
That man is richest whose pleasures are simplest.
OnLanier
>Gould 0738 wrote:
>>
>> So the debate rages between X grade and Marine ply....
>>
>> Igor was probably right, nothing "requires" the use of marine
ply for a sole in
>> a runabout since it isn't below the waterline (normally and
hopefully).
>>
>> Marine ply is of course required in applications below the
water line, because
>> when good old X grade delaminates (and it most certainly
will) it could lead to
>> a sinking in short order.
>>
>> If used for a sole, the only likely consequence of good ol X
grade delaminating
>> will be the need to repair the
>> sole yet again.
>
>
>
>
>Harry Krause
>------------
>
>If you shoot a mime, should you use a silencer?
to go. Do this; take a piece of CDX and a piece of marine ply
and put both in a bucket of water. Come back the next day and
have a look. If it is laminated in in fiberglass/epoxy, all the
more reason to use marine grade. One little pin-hole, and, in
that application, there will be, water gets in, has no place to
evaporate out, and delaminates the plywood.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Welly192
Igor wrote:
> * This was the cause of the deck failure in my boat anyway, wherever the
> * cracks
> * were the rot was directly underneath.
>
> Hm, did you use polyester or epoxy? I think that epoxy penetrates wood
> deep enough so that a failure of fiberglass would not create way for
> moisture.
Can't say for sure since I don't know what resin's the builder used at
the
time, I imagine epoxy. But in other sections of the deck (that had not
been stressed) the fiberglass was still strongly bonded to the wood
underneath ( making removal a real pain). I removed all the fiberglass
from the deck and treated with the Dr Rot stuff. What amazed me was how
the wood absorbed this stuff, like a sponge. Then when it dried it was
incredibly strong.
Ray
OnLanier
be able to put in there $.02 ON the topic?
hkr...@capu.net
>
> In article <392B6BE7...@mediaone.net>, Jim Conlin
> <con...@mediaone.net> wrote:
> >I estimate that about 15% of the bandwidth in this NG is
> consumed by the
> >question "The floor of my BubbaCraft has gone mushy. How can
> I fix it with PT
> >plywood and bondo?"
> >
> >If PT and bondo are 'good enough', why does this question get
> asked so often?
> >
> >For the next person who feels this question, I suggest that
> researching a
> >question through dejanews.com would be a fruitful first step.
> Considerate, too.
> > So, you felt compelled to write this flame, but nobody should
> be able to put in there $.02 ON the topic?
Even funnier...the floor or transom fails, so the "repair" is to rebuild with
the same materials or methods as originally used. If I were patching a deck on
which the ply had failed, I would have purchased a chunk of XL ply as the base
material, a step up from plain old marine ply, glassed that on both sides and
epoxied any necessary screw holes.
The only "woodwork" I've done on our current little boat is an "attachment"
board inside the center console on which I've mounted a battery charger and an
additional electrical panel. It's a nice piece of white oak which I epoxied. I
then drilled the four machine screw holes that hold it onto the inside of the
console and the holes for the accessories. Then I painted the screw holes with
epoxy. The oak doesn't get wet at all, but it is living in a wet environment.
--
Harry Krause
------------
At least PeeWee wasn't TALKING during the movie!
Richard E. Aubin
<snip>
: For the next person who feels this question, I suggest that researching a
: question through dejanews.com would be a fruitful first step. Considerate,
: too.
Unfortunately, the bulk of the DejaNews archive is down, possibly for
several months. So expect more questions of a repetitive nature.
--
Rich Aubin
K5REA
"I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon
constitutions, upon laws and upon courts. These are false hopes; believe
me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women;
when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it . . ."
- Learned Hand, "The Spirit of Liberty" 1960
hkr...@capu.net
>
> On Wed, 24 May 2000 06:51:36 -0400, the Krausstrollbot continues:
>
> >
> >
> >Off your meds *again* Larry?
> >--
> >Harry Krause
> >------------
> >
> >That man is richest whose pleasures are simplest.
>
Sure. I was out an entire day last weekend, albeit on a canoe. Out an entire day
the week before and two days the week before that. I think I'll be out for a
while tomorrow, and, of course, over the weekend if the weather is decent.
If you bring a note from your parrot that sez you've taken your meds, I'd even
take you out on the boat. You can drive, but you have to promise to keep your
hands out of the wires and mechanicals. I am, however, planning to drill a
2-1/8" hole in the back deck to install a TC-W3 oil reservoir filler kit.
Perhaps you could catch the fiberglass dust.
Someone did pass along the coordinates of a place where the young babes sunbathe
topless and skinnydip. We could swing on by, and you could drool...even if you
can't remember why.
--
Harry Krause
------------
Her sweater was so tight that men could hardly breathe.
Larry W4CSC
hkr...@capu.net
>
> "Richard E. Aubin" wrote:
>
> > <SNIP>
> > Unfortunately, the bulk of the DejaNews archive is down, possibly for
> > several months. So expect more questions of a repetitive nature.
> >
>
> year's stuff is available.
There are a few posters here who live for and in Deja, and probably have
downloaded the entire library of posts, going back to Creation, for
regurgitation.
--
Harry Krause
------------
CIA sabotaged Iraqi computers: gave 'em LINUX
Jim Conlin
clueless boatbuilder
seen several articles in WoodenBoat and a couple of books that noted
that the 1/4" luan plywood from the ol' Home Depot are made with
exactly the same glue as the 'marine' plys. So, I went home and did
a 'boil' test. It's not real scientific, but the luan showed no signs
of delaminating after a serious dunking in boiling water. Which is
exactly what the articles that I read came up with.
Thoughts? Comments?
In article <392AAD5C...@capu.net>,
hkr...@capu.net wrote:
> Igor wrote:
> >
> > hkr...@capu.net <hkr...@capu.net> wrote:
> > * Igor wrote:
> > *
> > * >
> > * > 4) Bought a piece of 3/4 in EXTERIOR grade plywood from home
depot.
> > * > You absolutely need exterior grade. For a boat floor, you do
not need
> > * > marine grade, which is what is needed for below waterline
applications.
> > *
> > * Uh...what suddenly qualifies *you* to state whether marine grade
ply should or
David Smalley
>
> Gould 0738 wrote:
> > Is it better to buy marine ply once or X grade plywood over and over?
> So, out of intellectual curiosity, what exactly is the difference?
>
> I have seen in this thread claims that the glue is the same and that it
> is different. Also that the wood is treated in some fashion, and that
> it is not. And it seems that there is a strength difference which would
> be of little matter when considering that flat surface upon which one
> stands while in a small boat.
>
> So if I buy a sheet of "green treated" plywood, would that do the job,
> remembering this is not the hull we are building.
>
> To net it out, glue: same or different?
> veneer: treated or plain?
"The Gougon Brothers on Boat Construction". page 41;
"If you are uncertain about the glue used in a laminate...boil a sample
in water for 30 minutes, dry it in an oven for an hour, and then repeat
the process. If the piece survives without delaminating, its adhesive is
probably good enough for marine construction."
Notice the word "probably".
--
DAVe
hkr...@capu.net
Is this where Steve pops in and tells us that the Gougeon Brothers forgot to
state whether the oven has to be turned on, and, if so, to what temperature?
Actually, I don't think the test is valid. While it would test the ability of a
laminate to resist boiling and baking, it doesn't subject it to compressive or
lateral forces or oilcanning under wet conditions. But I doubt marine ply is
tested thus, anyway.
--
Harry Krause
------------
Serial Killer: Person with difficult-to-meet needs
David Smalley
>
> David Smalley wrote:
> >
> > Del Cecchi wrote:
> > >
> > > Gould 0738 wrote:
> >
> > > > Is it better to buy marine ply once or X grade plywood over and over?
> >
> > > So, out of intellectual curiosity, what exactly is the difference?
> > >
> > > I have seen in this thread claims that the glue is the same and that it
> > > is different. Also that the wood is treated in some fashion, and that
> > > it is not. And it seems that there is a strength difference which would
> > > be of little matter when considering that flat surface upon which one
> > > stands while in a small boat.
> > >
> > > So if I buy a sheet of "green treated" plywood, would that do the job,
> > > remembering this is not the hull we are building.
> > >
> > > To net it out, glue: same or different?
> > > veneer: treated or plain?
> >
> > "The Gougon Brothers on Boat Construction". page 41;
> >
> > "If you are uncertain about the glue used in a laminate...boil a sample
> > in water for 30 minutes, dry it in an oven for an hour, and then repeat
> > the process. If the piece survives without delaminating, its adhesive is
> > probably good enough for marine construction."
> >
> > Notice the word "probably".
> Actually, I don't think the test is valid. While it would test the ability of a
> laminate to resist boiling and baking, it doesn't subject it to compressive or
> lateral forces or oilcanning under wet conditions. But I doubt marine ply is
> tested thus, anyway.
The boil test does not test the strength of the laminate, only the
heat/moisture resistance of the adhesive itself.
Notice: "If you are uncertain about the GLUE used in a laminate...If the
piece survives without delaminating, its ADHESIVE is probably good
enough for marine construction."
Have you considered a refesher course in remedial reading comprehension
lately?
--
DAVe
Jerry Hahn
"OnLanier" <wrote >
>Do this; take a piece of CDX and a piece of marine ply
> and put both in a bucket of water. Come back the next day and
> have a look. If it is laminated in in fiberglass/epoxy, all the
> more reason to use marine grade
I think that if I had that much water in my boat to whereas the floor is
submershed, somehow I don't see why I would be concerned if the floor would
hold together at this time. I would be more worried about the hole in the
hull :-)), then sell it.
Jerry
Jerry Hahn
"Jim Conlin" > wrote
> I estimate that about 15% of the bandwidth in this NG is consumed by the
> question "The floor of my BubbaCraft has gone mushy. How can I fix it
with PT
> plywood and bondo?"
>
> question through dejanews.com would be a fruitful first step.
Considerate, too.
Well Jimmy, if a topic was only allowed to be asked just once, period, this
newsgroup wouldn't have any post left. Besides, they have a neat little
feature that allows you to ignore some topics. But then again, I have seen
it mentioned here on more than one occasion so I, according to you, won't be
allowed to tell you how to use it.
Not everyone, including myself, do not know of all the "other" resources
available to us as I also work full time.
Jerry
hkr...@capu.net
What good is it if the adhesive works and the laminates are crappy.
--
Harry Krause
------------
If I save the whales, where do I keep them?
sfk...@mindspring.com
I kept AB ext pine and marine fir in my dishwasher for 6 days. Ran dishes
daily neither delaminated. Both were scarphed and epoxied. Used Raka and
used pulverized lime stone as thickener. It was a test of my joints in 1/4 "
ply. I don't know what the long term outlook would be for actual use. Time
will tell as I am sailing the boat. - Frank
clueless boatbuilder <jon_vi...@boatbuilding.com> wrote in message
news:8gh0pv$igi$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Russ Wiegand
INTERIOR ply is a whole other topic and thank the gods no one has tried to build a
boat with THAT! As for treatment, marine is the same as exterior - available as
either untreated or treated.
-rus-
Del Cecchi wrote:
> Gould 0738 wrote:
> >
> > So the debate rages between X grade and Marine ply....
> >
> > Igor was probably right, nothing "requires" the use of marine ply for a sole in
> > a runabout since it isn't below the waterline (normally and hopefully).
> >
> > Marine ply is of course required in applications below the water line, because
> > when good old X grade delaminates (and it most certainly will) it could lead to
> > a sinking in short order.
> >
> > If used for a sole, the only likely consequence of good ol X grade delaminating
> > will be the need to repair the
> > sole yet again.
> >
> > If I had a buck for every engine housing, pilot seat, deck box, and so forth
> > built out of shed siding plywood and delaminating in small open boats, I could
> > take a couple of years off.
> >
> > A good clue: "What type of material has just failed in this application?"
> > Whatever is was, don't use it again.
> >
> > Is it better to buy marine ply once or X grade plywood over and over?
> > Hmmm......
> >
> > ________
> > Chuck Gould
> >
> > Float and let float.
>
> So, out of intellectual curiosity, what exactly is the difference?
>
> I have seen in this thread claims that the glue is the same and that it
> is different. Also that the wood is treated in some fashion, and that
> it is not. And it seems that there is a strength difference which would
> be of little matter when considering that flat surface upon which one
> stands while in a small boat.
>
> So if I buy a sheet of "green treated" plywood, would that do the job,
> remembering this is not the hull we are building.
>
> To net it out, glue: same or different?
> veneer: treated or plain?
>
> del cecchi
Daniel Chenault
wrotd:
>In article <392B260E...@capu.net>, hkr...@capu.net wrote:
>>Gould 0738 wrote:
>>>
>>> So the debate rages between X grade and Marine ply....
>>>
>>> Igor was probably right, nothing "requires" the use of marine
>ply for a sole in
>>> a runabout since it isn't below the waterline (normally and
>hopefully).
>>>
>>> Marine ply is of course required in applications below the
>water line, because
>>> when good old X grade delaminates (and it most certainly
>will) it could lead to
>>> a sinking in short order.
>>>
>>> If used for a sole, the only likely consequence of good ol X
>grade delaminating
>>> will be the need to repair the
>>> sole yet again.
>>
>>
>>Ask Igor. That's what he did.
>>
>>
>>Harry Krause
>>------------
>>
>>If you shoot a mime, should you use a silencer?
>>Got to agree with Harry on this one. Marine plywood is the way
>to go. Do this; take a piece of CDX and a piece of marine ply
>and put both in a bucket of water. Come back the next day and
>have a look. If it is laminated in in fiberglass/epoxy, all the
>more reason to use marine grade. One little pin-hole, and, in
>that application, there will be, water gets in, has no place to
>evaporate out, and delaminates the plywood.
Then again, why trust this glue at all? When I replaced my deck, I
double-glassed the whole surface. Doesn't matter if it's Elmer's glue
holding the plys together, water is never going to touch it.
Northstar
deck soles with products like Divinycell H80. Sort of like the
E-machine you bought which sucks. Would you purchase the same thing
again?
David
On Wed, 24 May 2000 08:55:44 -0400, hkr...@capu.net wrote:
>OnLanier wrote:
>>
>> In article <392B6BE7...@mediaone.net>, Jim Conlin
>> <con...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>> >I estimate that about 15% of the bandwidth in this NG is
>> consumed by the
>> >question "The floor of my BubbaCraft has gone mushy. How can
>> I fix it with PT
>> >plywood and bondo?"
>> >
>> >If PT and bondo are 'good enough', why does this question get
>> asked so often?
>> >
>> >For the next person who feels this question, I suggest that
>> researching a
>> >question through dejanews.com would be a fruitful first step.
>> Considerate, too.
David flew
mine is moored all have a couple of inches of salt water in the bilges - a
few drops come in around the stern gland, a little comes over the gunwales,
some comes in on the anchor rope, but most comes in buckets-ful used to wash
down the boat. Problems arise in winter - if there is enough rain for the
bilge water to turn to fresh, then rot is a potential problem. Most people
just take the boat for a short run out of the creek and wash down with some
more salt water. ( Or fit a cover and keep out the rain!!) The floors rot
because they are NOT wet all the time, and the salt gets washed off.
David
Jerry Hahn wrote in message <#cKA#ccx$GA.272@cpmsnbbsa06>...
hkr...@capu.net
Now, David is a real boater. Truly. In the days I enjoyed lapstrake Lymans and
Cruisers, Inc.,, we always had a little salt water sloshing around beneath the
floorboards. In the winter, most of these boats were stored upside down, resting
on sturdy sawhorses. In the Spring, we sanded down the copper bottom paint and
put on a fresh coat, and gave the hullsides a fresh coat of white.
--
Harry Krause
------------
I.R.S.: We've got what it takes to take what you've got!
Michael J Porter
There are more plys, and there are no voids. The plywood is
physically heavier. Perhaps glue weighs more than wood, or perhaps
a denser wood is used in the first place.
I would never use AC, let alone CDX for decking. The voids are
very annoying to walk on. After a while, they will feel like soft
spots. I guess if you glass the plywood very well, this might not
be as much a problem. But, personally, I would use the marine ply
and epoxy it.
Mike
--
===
Mike Porter <mi...@udel.edu>
PGP Fingerprint: F4 AE E1 9F 67 F7 DA EA 2F D2 37 F3 99 ED D1 C2
Larry W4CSC
>
>
>Sure. I was out an entire day last weekend, albeit on a canoe. Out an entire day
>the week before and two days the week before that. I think I'll be out for a
>while tomorrow, and, of course, over the weekend if the weather is decent.
Which day and between which hours? I wanna look back through the
posts to see if someone was spoofing your sig because the posts are
nearly continuous 24/7. It's for your own protection, dontcha know.
>
hkr...@capu.net
Uh huh. I was out this morning for a couple of hours, too, doing a bit of
"testing."
Chew that.
--
Harry Krause
------------
Judge: An unemployed lawyer who wears a black dress.
Skipper
> Even funnier...the floor or transom fails, so the "repair" is to rebuild
> with the same materials or methods as originally used. If I were patching a
> deck on which the ply had failed, I would have purchased a chunk of XL ply
> as the base material, a step up from plain old marine ply, glassed that on
> both sides and epoxied any necessary screw holes.
> The only "woodwork" I've done on our current little boat is an "attachment"
> board inside the center console on which I've mounted a battery charger and
> an additional electrical panel. It's a nice piece of white oak which I
> epoxied. I then drilled the four machine screw holes that hold it onto the
> inside of the console and the holes for the accessories. Then I painted the
> screw holes with epoxy. The oak doesn't get wet at all, but it is living in
> a wet environment.
You're such a helpful person, Harry. Have you ever considered joining
the Peace Corps? Many of your ideas and techniques would be a big hit
with the natives in the upper reaches of the Amazon, if you know what I
mean. I'm sure white oak, epoxy, and XL plywood are just what they need
for repairs to their dugouts.
--
Skipper
Jralbert
Porter) writes:
>
>The marine ply I have used is just a better piece(s) of wood.
>There are more plys, and there are no voids. The plywood is
>physically heavier. Perhaps glue weighs more than wood, or perhaps
>a denser wood is used in the first place.
------
having observed this thread for a while, I'm really chuckling. A gaggle of
folks making uneducated guesses about the qualities of marine vs exterior
plywood. Did anyone think of asking a plywood manufacturer to explain the
difference between the grades??
Joel Albert
Potomac, MD
((jral...@aol.com))
hkr...@capu.net
Uh...which grades, varieties and manufactures of marine ply would you like
compared?
--
Harry Krause
------------
If you don't care where you are, then you aren't lost.
Mark
<Ski...@kscable.com> wrote:
>
> You're such a helpful person, Harry. Have you ever considered joining
> the Peace Corps? Many of your ideas and techniques would be a big hit
> with the natives in the upper reaches of the Amazon, if you know what I
> mean. I'm sure white oak, epoxy, and XL plywood are just what they need
> for repairs to their dugouts.
>
> --
> Skipper
Skipper,
Your comments are most helpful. I have a similar problem. Should I be
joining this Peace Core organization?
OnLanier
jral...@aol.com (Jralbert) wrote:
>In article <8gjqds$jil$1...@copland.udel.edu>,
mi...@copland.udel.edu (Michael J
>Porter) writes:
>
>>
>>The marine ply I have used is just a better piece(s) of wood.
>>There are more plys, and there are no voids. The plywood is
>>physically heavier. Perhaps glue weighs more than wood, or
perhaps
>>a denser wood is used in the first place.
>
>------
>
>having observed this thread for a while, I'm really chuckling.
A gaggle of
>folks making uneducated guesses about the qualities of marine
vs exterior
>plywood. Did anyone think of asking a plywood manufacturer to
explain the
>difference between the grades??
>
>
>Joel Albert
>Potomac, MD
>((jral...@aol.com))
qualifications?
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
hkr...@capu.net
>
> In article <20000528155924...@nso-fd.aol.com>,
> jral...@aol.com (Jralbert) wrote:
> >In article <8gjqds$jil$1...@copland.udel.edu>,
> mi...@copland.udel.edu (Michael J
> >Porter) writes:
> >
> >>
> >>The marine ply I have used is just a better piece(s) of wood.
> >>There are more plys, and there are no voids. The plywood is
> >>physically heavier. Perhaps glue weighs more than wood, or
> perhaps
> >>a denser wood is used in the first place.
> >
> >------
> >
> >having observed this thread for a while, I'm really chuckling.
> A gaggle of
> >folks making uneducated guesses about the qualities of marine
> vs exterior
> >plywood. Did anyone think of asking a plywood manufacturer to
> explain the
> >difference between the grades??
> >
> >
> >Joel Albert
> >Potomac, MD
> >((jral...@aol.com))
> Uneducated guesses? I'm a structural engineer, what are YOUR
> qualifications?
What's even funnier is the belief that the only differences between marine ply
and *not* marine ply are the glues and whether the veneers have voids.
There are qualities within the family of marine plys. Some veneers are better
than others for boat use. Not all the glues are the same. Some marine ply
manufacturers treat their products with special preservatives other
manufacturers do not use. Some manufacturers offer Lloyds-certified ply. Some
mills turn out higher quality product than others.
I don't believe marine ply is a parity product, like gasoline or soybeans.
--
Harry Krause
------------
Earn cash in your spare time -- blackmail your friends.
OnLanier
>
>I don't believe marine ply is a parity product, like gasoline
or soybeans.
>
>
>--
>Harry Krause
>------------
tim banse
Skipper
> Skipper wrote:
>> You're such a helpful person, Harry. Have you ever considered joining the
>> Peace Corps? Many of your ideas and techniques would be a big hit with the
>> natives in the upper reaches of the Amazon, if you know what I mean. I'm
>> sure white oak, epoxy, and XL plywood are just what they need for repairs
>> to their dugouts.
> Skipper,
> Your comments are most helpful. I have a similar problem. Should I be
> joining this Peace Core organization?
Oh, absolutely!
--
Skipper
MPerlst216
waste of boating rec time. sorry for this wate of time.
Skipper
> skipper has NO usefull boating comments, only personal insults that are a
> total waste of boating rec time. sorry for this wate of time.
But you make such an inviting target of opportunity, Perlstein.
--
Skipper
OnLanier
<dce...@ibm.net> wrote:
>Gould 0738 wrote:
>>
>> So the debate rages between X grade and Marine ply....
>>
>> Igor was probably right, nothing "requires" the use of marine
ply for a sole in
>> a runabout since it isn't below the waterline (normally and
hopefully).
>>
>> Marine ply is of course required in applications below the
water line, because
>> when good old X grade delaminates (and it most certainly
will) it could lead to
>> a sinking in short order.
>>
>> If used for a sole, the only likely consequence of good ol X
grade delaminating
>> will be the need to repair the
>> sole yet again.
>>
what you need to look at. If the glue fails, through the deck
you go! Those thin veneers have very little structural integrity
alone, they need to be glued together and STAY glued!
Michael J Porter
OnLanier <atlan...@aol.com> wrote:
=>In article <20000528155924...@nso-fd.aol.com>,
=>jral...@aol.com (Jralbert) wrote:
=>>In article <8gjqds$jil$1...@copland.udel.edu>,
=>mi...@copland.udel.edu (Michael J
=>>Porter) writes:
=>>
=>>>
=>>>The marine ply I have used is just a better piece(s) of wood.
=>>>There are more plys, and there are no voids. The plywood is
=>>>physically heavier. Perhaps glue weighs more than wood, or
=>perhaps
=>>>a denser wood is used in the first place.
=>>
=>>------
=>>
=>>having observed this thread for a while, I'm really chuckling.
=>A gaggle of
=>>folks making uneducated guesses about the qualities of marine
=>vs exterior
=>>plywood. Did anyone think of asking a plywood manufacturer to
=>explain the
=>>difference between the grades??
=>>
=>>
=>>Joel Albert
=>>Potomac, MD
=>>((jral...@aol.com))
=>Uneducated guesses? I'm a structural engineer, what are YOUR
=>qualifications?
////
He's probably one of those guys that uses iron nuts and bolts on
his boat because the manufacturer told him stainless isn't any
stronger...
MPerlst216
boat.