Ford's success...
JohnH
stop it.
" Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force
as it tries to cut costs further.
Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United
Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor
concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers
at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring."
The U.A.W.�s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in
charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the
carmaker�s third-quarter profit was �evidence of the contributions
that Ford workers have made.�"
nom=de=plume
news:dec0f5to64p7en60l...@4ax.com...
Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent
products that people want to buy?
--
Nom=de=Plume
Jim
Motors?
Bill McKee
"nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hcpuhu$n4u$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
They are decent products. But if you are paying some low skilled laborer
excess money, then the decent product is priced out of the market.
John H.
lol lol
nom=de=plume
news:3LednTvU456WOm3X...@earthlink.com...
Then, when the contract expires the company should seek to renegotiate. It
takes two parties to make a contract. If there's good management in place,
then the union members will feel better about consessions.
--
Nom=de=Plume
Don White
"John H." <removeths...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hbc1f5l11qktf8k3m...@4ax.com...
That's a silly response John...even by your standards.
Jack
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:59:08 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>
>
>
>
>
> >"JohnH" <removethissalmonb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Ford is producing America's best vehicles. Their corporate leadership
has put them into a strong position, not having to take any bailout
money.
Funny how the union thugs always blame a struggling company on the
management, but in this case, the union wants to take credit for
management's success. Freakin' union leeches.
Union management is the most corrupt entity in big business... right
behind Chicago politics.
nom=de=plume
Perhaps you should stop lolling about and make a positive contribution.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
news:654a2533-7a80-4730...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
Wonderful!
>Funny how the union thugs always blame a struggling company on the
>management, but in this case, the union wants to take credit for
>management's success. Freakin' union leeches.
I thought Ford wasn't struggling? Does the management team build the cars or
is that done by the workers?
>Union management is the most corrupt entity in big business... right
>behind Chicago politics.
It has been in the past. Don't know if union management is now. Let's assume
it is. Does that excuse management greed?
--
Nom=de=Plume
Stevie
They *work* for management. Without the company there are no jobs.
-S
Stevie
They should be at-will employees, each accountable for their hard work
and dedication to the product they make and the company that employs
them. Union crap like seniority, and other entitlements, only penalize
the hard workers. The payroll and overhead of the union organizers
would land right into the pockets of the workers if they had any self
respect. They are pissing away millions in dues in order for some to be
slackers who just happened to be on the job a few years earlier than the
rest.
-S
Stevie
What about the greed of the union organizers who rely on the dues of
hard working people for their income? Do you really think they are in
it for the cause?
-S
nom=de=plume
news:45adnXmvbZ4yTm3X...@giganews.com...
I agree. And, Ford is doing ok, even with the current contract. If
management wants something more from the unions, then they need to negotiate
that with the unions.
--
Nom=de=Plume
D.Duck
Ask the "chief" union guy around here.
Jack
> nom=de=plume wrote:
> > "Jack"<threepont...@live.com> wrote in message
Of course not. They'll run a company into the ground, all the while
trumpeting that they are "collective bargaining" for the employees.
They've done it many times, while, as you say, they earn their
impressive salaries from the sweat of their indentured workers.
In the real world, "collective bargaining" is called coercion, or
"strong-arm tactics". It's illegal.
Canuck57
Given your average pay cheque is now subsidising GM, Obama Government
Motors, people don't have as much money for vehicles.
Ford should simply say this is the wage and benefits, screw the union,
decertify or we will move elsewhere. Close a plant not making money
this month just as a warning and example.
And if big mouth BO opens his trap, ask him publically if he wants the
jobs ot BS?
Ford should be looking at moving offshore permanently anyway.
Liberalism, politics, corruption, unions and BS in America isn't going
to end soon. China is going to economically walk right over USA
manufacturing that doesn't get it's crap in order PDQ.
Just heard China has a 431 mph Maglev super train, 7 minutes and 20
seconds for 30 miles at a billion dollars. And they are expanding. A
single car can move 20 tons. Makes US rail look like neandrathals in
the mud.
Now it Obama corruption and bailout spending, combined with middle east
war went to American made super trains at $1B per mile, hell, you could
easily have a super train from NY city to LA! It would even employ
Americans to build it! But oh no, American bullshit politics has better
ideas with its debt spend.
Amazing how few politicians are doing anything to stop the decline of
the US. Yet so many are pushing right for it.
Canuck57
How many trillions can the governmetn debt-spend before the US economy
looks like Iceland or Zimbabwe?
Bill McKee
"nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A lot less than they
are making. $65 bundled labor cost to install a lug nut?
Canuck57
I am with you on the unions, but don't forget management. Move the
corporate offices to China or tax friendly offshore. Have USA as a
seperate company. Hire a crack ace CEO from China for 1/10th the price
and works 10 times smarter and 10 times harder. Develop the Asia
markets to be good enough they can close up manufacturing in the USA.
Dump Ford USA into Obama's lap and say it isn't our problem any more.
Canuck57
Don't forget the Harvard insiders. GM, Chrylser and Obama are all from
Harvard. And you wonder why SOX is up Wagoner for the bad GM
financials. Corporate corruption has a lot to do with this also. Tell
me a CEO like Wagoner cared? Cared about $12M year, treated like a
prince, and $20 pension -- for golf and execu-jeting.
$12 CEO pays for a lot of labour and materials. Most companies don't
get the value return. Many of these idiots can't even read!
Canuck57
They were all greedy and killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
Even now, they lay it on non-auto businesses and people to pay for it.
And like dumb little sheep they still will vote Democrat/Obama. Because
they are too stupid to know better.
Canuck57
Just like politicians and business people making back room deals.
But did Wagoner see the wrath of SOX? Nope, had connections. Did
anyone go to jail for $100++ billion of GM bailout and fraud? Nope, not
a one. Did congres/senators go after Bush and Obama for
misappropriation of TARP for auto? Hell no, they quiety supported it.
Problem here is the honest smuck keeps getting in the arse and the
sociopath ego maniac crooked types make it to the top, be it a business,
union or government.
And people passively sit by and watch it happen. Do nothing. Many like
that fat lady with no brains, "Obama will pay for my gas and
mortgage..." typifies the bottom up problem in America.
Canuck57
I did. When I knew GM was going under I bought Ford @2 to $2.25, sold
it all at $6.50 for a nice ROI. Ok, I lost out, it went to $7 but you
never get burned taking a profit.
This is a spectacular money making opportunity of a lifetime. The
volitility, amazing. Must thank the Lib-Dims for the massive bank and
currency debt and keeping the ponzi scheme going. But now, looking at
cashing out of USA. The big currency drop is ramping up.
Canuck57
Or just don't negotiate. Say this is how it is, take it or leave it.
No contract until the equity is twice that of debt.
Want to argue? Which plant are your from? Lockout and shut it down.
If Obama calls, tell big mouh to hire them himself.
Canuck57
> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:39:13 -0500, JohnH
> <removethis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The U.A.W.�s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in
>> charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the
>> that Ford workers have made.�"
>
> Wall Street seems to have ignored this. The stock is down today
Do you trust US corporate financials that much?
No one even went to jail for GMs mis-statements. There was even a class
action lawsuit that won, and their case was solid enough they didn't
need a criminal conviction.
US has the laws but SEC/Obama doesn't enforce them.
Meanwhile the Ford family might be selling out, why not? A little bit
that is left over is better than squat if Obama USSR nationalizes it too.
jps
This is as positive as it gets for JohnH.
Jim
Jim
They have pretty much destroyed manufacturing in America. They may have
fulfilled a need in the past but now they are just excess baggage. And
every American has to pay in one way or another.
Tosk
says...
Looks like they smartened up today, the Republicans really ran the
table.. Even ACORN couldn't help in New Jersey.. Although they made a
good attempt, I predict some arrests over it, hopefully a bunch of
them.. Love to see those idiots froghopped down the sidewalk.
--
Wafa free again.
Tosk
says...
They should... Why do guys get 75 dollars an hour to run a computerized
screwdriver?
--
Wafa free again.
nom=de=plume
news:oM5Im.2498$fE2....@newsfe04.iad...
No idea. Would you like to give us a number? I'll forward it to Geitner for
you. lol
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
I agree. They should be, but since management was so bad for so long, that's
not going to happen any time soon.
As is the normal practice, they can and should attempt to renegotiate the
terms. You do believe in negotiation don't you? Or, do you think a lock out
will work?
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
Sure thing. No need for an America-first attitude. Greed, for lack of a
better word, is unpatriotic.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who determines this? You?
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
news:006cc704$0$26924$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
Absolutely. They can. In the past, many companies have done that. There are,
of course, consequences.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
I'm unsure. Probably some are for the cause, some are for the money. That's
really beside the point. It's still a negotiation that has to take place.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
Reply: In the real world, if discovered, it should be prosecuted. Feel free
to email Fitzgerald.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
We're all happy you made out ok.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
Certainly an option. I believe this has been done previously. It didn't turn
out that well for the company, but what the hey, those who don't remember
the past are doomed to repeat it.
--
Nom=de=Plume
Bill McKee
"nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
The market place. Not the union strong arming the company. Between the
union and piss poor management over the at least 40 years before the crash,
there is no way the car companies can succeed.
jps
Maybe he could make a fortune in currency trading like George Soros.
Unlike Soros however, he'd still lack a conscience.
nom=de=plume
Hate to tell you, but a negotiated contract _is_ the market rate. Looks like
Ford is going to do ok and even GM is doing better. Chrysler I think is on
the way out completely.
--
Nom=de=Plume
Jim
Lock out the unions. Let the workers in to work if they so desire. If
the workers think the unions deserve compensation, they can always
contiue to pay their membership fees.
Jim
> Sure thing. No need for an America-first attitude. Greed, for lack of a
> better word, is unpatriotic.
>
That's the essence of your political belief system.
Jim
BAR
says...
The next time there is a natural disaster somewhere in the third world
America shouldn't be first with relief, we should be last with relief.
Let the rest of the world step up and help the people in need first.
Jim
can we believe it when she utters such dumb nonsense. It's time we gave
her the boot.
Jim
anymore.
Jim
BAR
says...
> >>>> Union management is the most corrupt entity in big business... right
> >>>> behind Chicago politics.
> >>> It has been in the past. Don't know if union management is now. Let's
> >>> assume
> >>> it is. Does that excuse management greed?
> >>>
> >> What about the greed of the union organizers who rely on the dues of hard
> >> working people for their income? Do you really think they are in it for
> >> the cause?
> >>
> >> -S
> >
> >
> > I'm unsure. Probably some are for the cause, some are for the money. That's
> > really beside the point. It's still a negotiation that has to take place.
> >
> You have no idea what you are talking about. Admit it.
Union labor strives for mediocraty. There is not motivation for working
harder or better than the guy next to you. You both get paid the same
regardless of the quality and quantity of your labor.
Jim
and lack of real world experiences. Come back and play againwhen you
mature and grow up. Until then, it is my solemn duty, honor, and
obligation to flush you down the toilet. Bye now. And be sure to say
hello to JPS and slammer when you arrive at your destination. Harry will
be joining you shortly.
thunder
> Union labor strives for mediocraty. There is not motivation for working
> harder or better than the guy next to you. You both get paid the same
> regardless of the quality and quantity of your labor.
It's an assembly line. How do you work harder than the guy next to you?
H the K
This from a guy who couldn't hang onto a job pushing a broom and mucking
out horse stalls?
BAR
thunder...@gti.net says...
Not all union labor works on a assembly line.
I remember in 1987 having to plug in an data line monitor, in Ft.
Lauderdale, into an electrical outlet under the raised floor. The guy in
the datacenter called the electrical shop and the electrician couldn't
get to us for 1.5 hours. We had the floor open and were staring at an
electrical outlet. Neither of us were allowed to plug the cord into the
electrical outlet, union rules. It took the guy 2 hours to get to us. We
asked him why it took so long and he said that he had to take his
morning break, union rules. The electrician plugged the power cord in
and said call me when you need it unplugged. After the union electrician
left the data center guy said that it would be easier if the power cord
accidentally was kicked and fell out of the outlet when I was done. So,
I accidentally kicked the power cord out of the outlet 20 minutes later
and left. What should have taken 30 minutes at most turned into 3 hours.
Tosk
says...
And if you work too hard, you are dragged into the bathroom and
"spoken" to..
--
Wafa free again.
H the K
I'll bet you spent a lot of time in those bathroom stalls, hoping to see
a foot come under to greet yours.
Tosk
Have you ever been in a union slow down? A wildcat strike? I have. One
way is to go to the safety book and start stopping production lines for
things that have been in place for ever. When we (teamsters) wanted to
shut down Finast, we pulled horn wires off the forklifts, found chips
missing from solid tires, and parked the rigs across the isles, marked
them with red tags we had been handed on the way in that day, then stood
there and made sure management didn't move them the 4 feet out of the
way so production could continue. If a manager or security moved the
thing, they lost their job. It took the two maintenance workers each
shift three days to clear the isles cause they were "magic" I guess,
they could move those rigs with chipped tires or bad horns to the sides
of the isles, without getting killed, amazing.. While we all sat in the
lunchroom and ate our lunch or stood in the parking lot smoking butts
and many getting drunk. Well, the drunk part happened all the time
anyway, but hey... The company eventually sued the union and won. Later
that year they broke the union, laid off 25% of the work force, and
eventually sold to a Canadian company with no union. Now the
Finast/Edwards stores have been sucked up by their other acquisition,
Stop and Shop...
--
Wafa free again.
John H.
<nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote:
>"John H." <removeths...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:hbc1f5l11qktf8k3m...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:59:08 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>> <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>"JohnH" <removethis...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:dec0f5to64p7en60l...@4ax.com...
>>>> ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to
>>>> stop it.
>>>>
>>>> " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force
>>>> as it tries to cut costs further.
>>>>
>>>> Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United
>>>> Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor
>>>> concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers
>>>> at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring."
>>>>
>>>> The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in
>>>> charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the
>>>> carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions
>>>> that Ford workers have made.""
>>>>
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay
>>>
>>>
>>>Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing
>>>decent
>>>products that people want to buy?
>>
>> lol lol
>
>
>Perhaps you should stop lolling about and make a positive contribution.
I started the thread.
lol
nom=de=plume
news:MPG.255b39467...@news.giganews.com...
Why? With great power comes great responsibility, assuming we are who we
claim to be.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
Ok, then why do they exist? They shouldn't, yet they do.... wait for it...
because of poor management.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
news:8OadnZNEuYsL6GzX...@posted.gtinet...
You screw up the entire line?
--
Nom=de=Plume
H the K
BAR is co-chair here of the Republican "I've got mine, so fuck you" club.
nom=de=plume
We're talking about the auto manufacturers. Address that.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
news:MPG.255b512ad...@news.eternal-september.org...
I was a union member. I worked hard. My fellow worker just gave me the
advice... pace yourself, it's a long day. After a month, I saw his point,
because I was exhausted. I (we) still did a good job.
--
Nom=de=Plume
jps
This from the asshole who changes his name every ten minutes.
He'll be butt sniffing within hours.
jps
wrote:
If you're going to lie, why not lie big?
The guys with computerized screwdrivers are making $350/hr.
$75/hr. is likely the fully burdened cost including depreciation of
the computerized screwdriver, the assembly line, health insurance,
pension, FICA, Medicare, SUI, toilet paper in the rest rooms,
electricity for the lighting, etc.
jps
wrote:
>On 11/4/09 11:05 AM, nom=de=plume wrote:
FlaToeJam is the welcoming committee
Herring is in charge of Incloosion Illoosion
Jackoff heads up sheets and hats
The Freak is equipment manager
Tim provides counsel to the baptised
Insurance reseller resells insurance to anyone willing to buy
H the K
What a line-up!
John H.
It will save you from reading a lot of shit.
jps
wrote:
Palin-approved!
Forgot DK as the dedicated Teabagger
John H.
Did you ever notice how liberals are *so* into name-calling?
Here, jps, answer the question:
Here are some quotes from The Man Himself, Obama:
*************************************************************
"I am a Christian. I'm rooted in the Christian tradition. I believe
that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that
there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people."
"Alongside my own deep personal faith, I am a follower, as well, of
our civic religion,"
He boasts of a "personal relationship with Jesus Christ."
Obama says he prays regularly. "It's not formal, me getting on my
knees. I think I have an ongoing conversation with God."
"When we abandon the field of religious discourse�when we ignore the
debate about what it means to be a good Christian or Muslim or Jew;
when we discuss religion only in the negative sense of where or how it
should not be practiced, rather than in the positive sense of what it
tells us about our obligations toward one another; when we shy away
from religious venues and religious broadcasts because we assume that
we will be unwelcome�others will fill the vacuum. "
"We worship an awesome God in the blue states and we don't like
federal agents poking around in our libraries in the red states. "
"The audacity of hope! In the end, that is God�s greatest gift to us,
the bedrock of this nation. A belief in things not seen. "
************************************************************************
I would guess that in your eyes, Obama must be a raging hypocrite, an
irrationale 'believer', or just a good liar.
Which is it?
--
Loogy says:
Conservative = Good
Liberal = Bad
I agree. John H
Stevie
> On Nov 3, 8:19 pm, Stevie<St...@gmail16.com> wrote:
>> nom=de=plume wrote:
>>> "Jack"<threepont...@live.com> wrote in message
But largely unenforceable.
-S
Stevie
>
> Even now, they lay it on non-auto businesses and people to pay for it.
> And like dumb little sheep they still will vote Democrat/Obama. Because
> they are too stupid to know better.
True.
-S
Stevie
> nom=de=plume wrote:
>> "Bill McKee" <bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:3LednTvU456WOm3X...@earthlink.com...
>>> "nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:hcpuhu$n4u$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> news:dec0f5to64p7en60l...@4ax.com...
>>>>> ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to
>>>>> stop it.
>>>>>
>>>>> " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force
>>>>> as it tries to cut costs further.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United
>>>>> Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor
>>>>> concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers
>>>>> at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring."
>>>>>
>>>>> The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in
>>>>> charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the
>>>>> carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions
>>>>> that Ford workers have made.""
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay
>>>>
>>>> Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing
>>>> decent products that people want to buy?
>>>>
>>>> Nom=de=Plume
>>>>
>>> They are decent products. But if you are paying some low skilled
>>> laborer excess money, then the decent product is priced out of the
>>> market.
>>
>> Then, when the contract expires the company should seek to
>> renegotiate. It takes two parties to make a contract. If there's good
>> management in place, then the union members will feel better about
>> consessions.
>>
> There's another option. Ford can tell the unions to fuck off.
If it were only that simple...
-S
Bill McKee
"nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
>>
>> "nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> "nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> Nom=de=Plume
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A lot less than
>>>> they are making. $65 bundled labor cost to install a lug nut?
>>>
>>> Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who determines this? You?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nom=de=Plume
>>>
>>
>> The market place. Not the union strong arming the company. Between the
>> union and piss poor management over the at least 40 years before the
>> crash, there is no way the car companies can succeed.
>
> Hate to tell you, but a negotiated contract _is_ the market rate. Looks
> like Ford is going to do ok and even GM is doing better. Chrysler I think
> is on the way out completely.
>
> --
> Nom=de=Plume
>
The artificial market rate. Piss Poor management is the reason for those
egregious contracts. American car companies at the time had 80 or 90% of
the world market. Why worry about fiscal responsibility when you could pass
on the cost and produce crappy cars. Now the real market rate is maybe 25%
of the negotiated rate. My daughter bought a used Hyundai station wagon a
couple years ago. 100k warrantee, good car, 70% the price of a comparable
American car. Buy American? Not when it comes with a 42% premium. For a
car with less warrantee.
Stevie
> "Stevie"<St...@gmail16.com> wrote in message
> news:45adnXivbZ5dSG3X...@giganews.com...
>> dedication to the product they make and the company that employs them.
>> Union crap like seniority, and other entitlements, only penalize the hard
>> workers. The payroll and overhead of the union organizers would land
>> right into the pockets of the workers if they had any self respect. They
>> are pissing away millions in dues in order for some to be slackers who
>> just happened to be on the job a few years earlier than the rest.
>>
>> -S
>
>
> I agree. They should be, but since management was so bad for so long, that's
> not going to happen any time soon.
>
> As is the normal practice, they can and should attempt to renegotiate the
> terms. You do believe in negotiation don't you? Or, do you think a lock out
> will work?
>
In a democratic society of people who can think for themselves, the
negotiation process typically takes place as a one-on-one interview -
not a wholesale demand for a pay increase without regard for individual
performance. In that case, the slackers win and the motivated lose.
-S
Stevie
>>
>> "nom=de=plume"<nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
>>> Nom=de=Plume
>>>
>>
>> Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A lot less than
>> they are making. $65 bundled labor cost to install a lug nut?
>
> Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who determines this? You?
>
It should be the open market. Not back-room negotiating by union thugs
who suck money from their members.
-S
Stevie
>> nom=de=plume wrote:
>>> "Jack"<threep...@live.com> wrote in message
>>> news:654a2533-7a80-4730...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Nov 3, 5:40 pm, John H.<removethssalmonb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:59:08 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <nom...@plume.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> news:dec0f5to64p7en60l...@4ax.com...
>>>>>> ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to
>>>>>> stop it.
>>>>
>>>>>> " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force
>>>>>> as it tries to cut costs further.
>>>>
>>>>>> Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United
>>>>>> Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor
>>>>>> concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers
>>>>>> at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring."
>>>>
>>>>>> The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in
>>>>>> charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the
>>>>>> carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions
>>>>>> that Ford workers have made.""
>>>>
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay
>>>>
>>>>> Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing
>>>>> decent
>>>>> products that people want to buy?
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Ford is producing America's best vehicles. Their corporate leadership
>>>> has put them into a strong position, not having to take any bailout
>>>> money.
>>>
>>> Wonderful!
>>>
>>>> Funny how the union thugs always blame a struggling company on the
>>>> management, but in this case, the union wants to take credit for
>>>> management's success. Freakin' union leeches.
>>>
>>> I thought Ford wasn't struggling? Does the management team build the cars
>>> or
>>> is that done by the workers?
>>>
>>>> Union management is the most corrupt entity in big business... right
>>>> behind Chicago politics.
>>>
>>> It has been in the past. Don't know if union management is now. Let's
>>> assume
>>> it is. Does that excuse management greed?
>>>
>>
>> What about the greed of the union organizers who rely on the dues of hard
>> working people for their income? Do you really think they are in it for
>> the cause?
>>
>
>
> I'm unsure. Probably some are for the cause, some are for the money. That's
> really beside the point. It's still a negotiation that has to take place.
>
It doesn't *have* to take place. Trust me. I've talked to enough union
employees to know that the hard working hate it and the slackers love it.
-S
nom=de=plume
So, you're saying that each individual worker should negotiate with
management about health, safety, employment practices, benefits, etc.? Talk
about bringing a company to a standstill....
As with the rest of our country, the union members elected their leadership
for better or worse. This is called a representative democracy.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
Please show us the data for the "real" market rate. Yes. Piss-poor
management. I agree. Thus, unions came into being.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
Hate to tell you, but it _is_ the open market. See representative democracy
vs. management thugs.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
That's a perfectly valid thing to do, as long as you accept the
consequences.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
In today's reality, it does. Talking to some union folk does not a
non-negotiation (umm) not make.
--
Nom=de=Plume
Bill McKee
"nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
Look at what the non union successful car companies are paying and a valid
market rate is less than that.
nom=de=plume
Huh? Non union car companies not paying a valid market rate? How do you
figure that one?
--
Nom=de=Plume
Bill McKee
"nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even less, if the
unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt companies and taxpayers.
nom=de=plume
So, the non-union car companies pay a valid market rate, which is fine if
you can convince the workers to get rid of the union. It doesn't happen that
often, but I have no problem with it per se.
--
Nom=de=Plume
Bill McKee
"nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
Basically the non union shops pay the workers enough and will build a plant
somewhere else if they need more capacity if the shop goes union.
thunder
> They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even less, if
> the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt companies and
> taxpayers.
Funny, instead of focusing on bottom up, perhaps more focus should be
placed on top down. Toyota's top 37 executives earned a combined $21.6
million. That bum Wagoner's compensation, alone, was $14.4 million. At
Honda, the top 21 executives earned $11.1 million combined. Ford's CEO
Mulally's compensation was $17.7 million in 2008. If the boss thinks
there's that kind of money floating around, why wonder if the working man
wants a piece.
Or, is this just another example of voodoo economics, you know, Reagan's
"tinkle down" economics?
Jim
Jim
> "nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
> news:hctoe1$vje$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> "Bill McKee" <bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:a-6dnRHDoavawW_X...@earthlink.com...
>>> "nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>> valid market rate is less than that.
>>>> Huh? Non union car companies not paying a valid market rate? How do you
>>>> figure that one?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nom=de=Plume
>>>>
>>> They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even less, if
>>> the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt companies and
>>> taxpayers.
>> So, the non-union car companies pay a valid market rate, which is fine if
>> you can convince the workers to get rid of the union. It doesn't happen
>> that often, but I have no problem with it per se.
>>
>> --
>> Nom=de=Plume
>>
>
> Basically the non union shops pay the workers enough and will build a plant
> somewhere else if they need more capacity if the shop goes union.
>
>
peddling.
BAR
says...
I think Plum is an agitator sent here to agitate. I don't know why any
of you engage her in conversation, she is just a somewhat polite Harry
Krause.
H the K
It's great fun when the right-wing diarrhea here talks about "manners."
BAR
thunder...@gti.net says...
If the working man has the ability to climb the coproate ladder and earn
the fat pay check, good for him. Not everyone has the ability.
Jealousy of what someone else has achieved in life is no way to live the
rest of yours.
nom=de=plume
Thus they pay the valid market rate. Not sure what you mean by "enough."
Union shops pay a valid market rate also, but with different facts involved.
They will also build a plant somewhere else if they need more capacity union
or no union.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
I think that Jim is a jerk. No, a rude jerk. I really don't care what either
of you think. If you don't like what I have to say, don't read my posts.
That seems to be impossible for either of you.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
Yes, we all dream of being in the NBA also, but the reality is that very few
people will be pro athletes and very few will be millionaires. What's your
excuse?
--
Nom=de=Plume
H the K
Bertie Robbins (BAR) barely got out of high school, disdains formal
education, joined the marines, and was so competent at that he never not
an overseas posting. Now he works at a low level management position at
a Washington, D.C., tech company. He thinks he is a rugged individualist.