DISCOUNT MARINE ELECTRONICS
ebr...@delphi.com
Send E-mail with request to EBR...@DELPHI.COM
Most brands are available.
Please include manufacturers name and model number in request. We will
respond via E-mail with price and availability.
We are a five year old corporation based in Long Island, New York.
Visa / Mastercard / Amex / Discover accepted.
David Oswald
: Marine electronics available at competitive prices.
I realize that I can't speak for everyone here, but I do take offence at
this type of advertising on the net. There are proper usenet groups for
posting ads like this one. The rec.boats group is not the right place.
The fact is, I don't mind seeing an ad here and there for someone
selling his own personal boat. For that matter, I usually read the
'boat wanted' type of posts here as well. But to use this group as a
method of expanding your customer base is in poor taste. People come
here to give and take information, not to be bombarded by advertising.
If more people were to advertise here it could become difficult to
determine what was genuine information, discussion, and advice; and what
was a commercial.
Please respect my wish to keep this group an information source, and not
a source of hype and marketing.
Thanks,
Dave
--
___________________________________________________________________________
| David Oswald || "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, |
| dos...@xmission.com || damn lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain |
===========================================================================
000200 Lynch
|>I realize that I can't speak for everyone here, but I do take offence at
|>this type of advertising on the net. There are proper usenet groups for
|>posting ads like this one. The rec.boats group is not the right place.
|>
|>The fact is, I don't mind seeing an ad here and there for someone
|>selling his own personal boat. For that matter, I usually read the
|>'boat wanted' type of posts here as well. But to use this group as a
|>method of expanding your customer base is in poor taste. People come
|>here to give and take information, not to be bombarded by advertising.
|>If more people were to advertise here it could become difficult to
|>determine what was genuine information, discussion, and advice; and what
|>was a commercial.
|>
|>Please respect my wish to keep this group an information source, and not
|>a source of hype and marketing.
Well said.
--
Hal Lynch
US Mail: Utah State University Internet: H...@cache.declab.usu.edu
Office of Computer Services Phone: (801)797-2380
Logan, Utah 84322-4410 Fax: (801)797-2268
Joe Deal
BRENT RHOADS
>Marine electronics available at competitive prices.
>
>Send E-mail with request to EBR...@DELPHI.COM
>
>Most brands are available.
>
>Please include manufacturers name and model number in request. We will
>respond via E-mail with price and availability.
>
>We are a five year old corporation based in Long Island, New York.
>
>Visa / Mastercard / Amex / Discover accepted.
>
>
***** Brent
LUHC
Jon Saulsgiver
: Marine electronics available at competitive prices.
:
: Send E-mail with request to EBR...@DELPHI.COM
:
: Most brands are available.
:
: Please include manufacturers name and model number in request. We will
: respond via E-mail with price and availability.
:
: We are a five year old corporation based in Long Island, New York.
:
: Visa / Mastercard / Amex / Discover accepted.
:
then Dave Oswald comes back with this:
>>I realize that I can't speak for everyone here, but I do take offence at
>>this type of advertising on the net. There are proper usenet groups for
>>posting ads like this one. The rec.boats group is not the right place.
>>The fact is, I don't mind seeing an ad here and there for someone
>>selling his own personal boat. For that matter, I usually read the
>>'boat wanted' type of posts here as well. But to use this group as a
>>method of expanding your customer base is in poor taste. People come
>>here to give and take information, not to be bombarded by advertising.
>>If more people were to advertise here it could become difficult to
>>determine what was genuine information, discussion, and advice; and what
>>as a commercial.
>>Please respect my wish to keep this group an information source, and not
>>a source of hype and marketing.
>>hanks,
>>Dave
>>--
>>___________________________________________________________________________
>>| David Oswald || "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, |
>>| dos...@xmission.com || damn lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain |
>>===========================================================================
Ok, Dave, you're entitled to your opinions. here are some of mine:
1) the original posting was of a lot more use to me than yours, since I can add
the info it contains to my list of sources for marine gear,
2) the original posting contained no hype, just information. perhaps you should
re-read the original posting and tell us what parts you consider "hype?" the poster
simply offered information on _where to get_ the hype and marketing info....
the fact that they take credit cards is just plain information, Dave.
3) who died and left you in charge of net.policy? "...my wish...?" c'mon, do you
really think anyone cares? since you're looking for advice, I'd advise you
to take your own advice and reconsider posting unless you have something of value
to add to the discussion yourself.
If you want to flame me now, "switch and answer" email and spare the group any
additional non-boating traffic, eh?
Appologies to all for continuing this thread so far on-shore...
Jon Saulsgiver jo...@eso.mc.xerox.com
No, I don't speak for Xerox, maker of copiers and other products.
Ed McCrudden
So why did all three people who protested this obnoxious ad proceed to
quote the entire thing, thereby displaying it to the newsgroup three
additional times?
C'mon, guys.... that's not the way to get rid of these hucksters. Send
the ad back to the original poster with your protest.
Brian_Smith
: If a service is provided, why not???
How can anyone ever argue with the almighty dollar? There are literally
thousands of magazines, TV networks, bill boards, you name it, that people
can go to to obtain the service that you are talking about. Here, people
sign in to talk about things in general. When people advertise, you have
to look at the posting just to determine that it is an advert and that makes
most people angry with the poster and they start trying to persuade other
people NOT to buy from that advertiser (if that argument does not persuade
you, then nothing will).
If you want to provide a service here, one way you can do it, is to offer
some good advice when someone asks for it and then casually mention in your
signature that you can help them with.....offline. My guess is you will
then have people here who will tell their friends what a great guy you are,
etc. There are some people who do that here so you woud not be doing
anything revolutionary.
Also, I think there are forums specifically for advertising. Maybe someone
else can help you there.
B.S!
Jacob George
> : Marine electronics available at competitive prices.
> :
> : Send E-mail with request to EBR...@DELPHI.COM
> :
> :
> I realize that I can't speak for everyone here, but I do take offence at
> this type of advertising on the net. There are proper usenet groups for
> posting ads like this one. The rec.boats group is not the right place.
>
I understand that you are against advertising in this group. I believe
that advertising that may benefit me, providing a source for lower cost
products or contact with knowledgeable interested vendor, may be tolerable;
however, you are right that it is
going to get out of hand. Rather than saying no advertising at all, maybe
we can allow a vendor to post 1 short post( 100 words or less? ) once a month
here, or maybe one post total which then will get integrated into the FAQ.
The subject line should contain 'AD:' to distinguish it from other messages so
that readers are aware of the contents and skip it if desired.
BTW, I do not have any personal connection with this vendor, just putting in
$0.02 worth.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacob George,
Senior Engineer,
Anorad Corporation,
110 Oser Avenue,
Hauppauge, NY 11777, USA
ja...@anorad.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy Smith
> I understand that you are against advertising in this group. I believe
> that advertising that may benefit me, providing a source for lower cost
> products or contact with knowledgeable interested vendor, may be tolerable;
> however, you are right that it is going to get out of hand.
There is an economic theory known as "tradgedy of the commons". It
basically goes like this. There is a town with a commons -- a big grassy
field in the middle of the town. There is a rule that says you can't let
your cows graze in the commons. One day, one guy lets his cow graze in the
commons. It's only one cow and doesn't do much damage, and nobody gets too
worked up over it. The next day, somebody else says "Hey, joe let his cow
graze in the commons, why can't I let my cow do the same thing?" and he
does. Pretty soon, the nice commons has turned into a public cow-grazing
field, all the grass is gone, and cow-pies have taken its place.
Then there is the story about letting the camel's nose in the tent. Pretty
soon you're in bed with the whole camel.
There are already lots of places where manufacturers can advertise their
products, at their expense. Most of the sailing magazines out there are
really just advertising vehicles with just enough non-advertising material
to keep people interested. Usenet is not one of those places. Just
because it's impossible to enforce the ban other than by peer pressure
doesn't mean it's OK to do.
--
Roy Smith <r...@nyu.edu>
Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
John F. Hughes
>
>Rather than saying no advertising at all, maybe
>we can allow a vendor to post 1 short post( 100 words or less? ) once a month
>here, or maybe one post total which then will get integrated into the FAQ.
As the maintainer of the FAQ, I will not include any such advertisements.
If someone *really* objects to this, he or she can take over the job
of maintaining the FAQ from me.
-John
Steve Shaffer
Humm,
Do others have additonal input on this? On rec.motorcycles it seems
that folks talk about their businesses without getting flamed. On the
other side the businesses are careful not to abuse the privilege (they
don't blast repeated advertisements).
I'd like to announce my spouse's new business here and let the rec.boats
particpants know our (I count myself part of the business since I'm
keeping us fed at the moment) capabilites; this takes more than a
simple signature file. Is an annouincement of a new business out of line-
establishing a presence by responding to every posting seems to be far
more obnoxious to me. We'd like to do a book/software review about
once a month is that too blatent? (We carry books and nautical SW).
Is posting daily BOC progress reports out of line?
We're shelling out significant dollars to maintain a connection to the
net and make space for free information. We could/will would benefit
from advertising on the net, we also want to give something back.
We will advertize on Mosiac (once we get the retail establishment
launched) which is clearly inline with net policy but that seems to be
a lot more hit or miss propisition.
Can you point me to the adversizing forums.? I haven't found any on the
net. I am skeptical that any would have a good hit rate but what the
hey.
Regards
Steve Shaffer (wayp...@netcom.com - soon to be s...@waypoint.com)
Peter W. Meek
<on how/whether/where/how often to announce a boat-related business>
First, Steve, thanks for asking instead of just doing it. I notice
that other newsgroups in the main hierarchies sometimes have groups
named xxxx.yyyy.anouncements where commercial interests can
post informational announcements. The only way to get such a group
started is to go through the process which has been detailed several
times in the current rehashing of whether to split rec.boats. You
discuss it in the administrative group (news.groups?) for a while
and then go through a specific sequence of actions which ends in
a vote on whether to create the new group. Someone with an interest
will have to make the effort to learn how it all works and then
spend the time to go through with it. There is a FAQ somewhere which
details the entire process.
--
--Pete <pwm...@mail.msen.com>
"A man who would spend money on a psychiatrist
needs his head examined." <from R. Hill>
Paul Kamen
post that started this thread was a little more than that, but still just
barely within my annoyance threshold.
FWIW, I emailed a request for a quote for a Gramin 45 a few days ago, and
haven't even received acknowledgement of my request. So I'm inclined to
write off "Discount Marine Electronics" as a vapor-business.
-"Call me Fishmeal"-
Larry DeMers
Ok, so we allow an advertiser to make "1 short post". Who is going to keep
track of these? You know the pressure will then translate to increasing the
length and/or frequency of these ads. Once we start down this slippery slope,
there will be no stopping as each new advertiser can claim that it was done
before so he should be able to to advertise also. I persist with the view
that advertising does not belong here. Period!
Larry DeMers
S/V DeLaMer
ettings
>Ok, so we allow an advertiser to make "1 short post". Who is going to keep
>track of these? You know the pressure will then translate to increasing the
>length and/or frequency of these ads. Once we start down this slippery slope,
>there will be no stopping as each new advertiser can claim that it was done
>before so he should be able to to advertise also. I persist with the view
>that advertising does not belong here. Period!
major counter control, useless, UNLESS you take another angle. One
possibility could be to have a recurring message here which says
******NEED TO FIND EQUIPMENT?******
Have the message say "IF you are looking for a vendor, go to "_____.___"
where you will find a large collection of messages by vendors looking
for people like you." ....or some such message. Have it repeat every
30-70 messages. Vendors may find this good for them too. Just a thought.
Seth Alberts
With the volume of messages here repeating every 300 messages would be more
reasonable, or better yet once a week
--
All Opinions Expressed (If you find any) are strictly my own. I don't
speak for Rockwell or Nasa, and they don't speak for me.
Alb...@ctsd2.jsc.nasa.gov or Spac...@aol.com
Larry Swift
Larry DeMers <dem...@labman.cray.com> wrote:
>Ok, so we allow an advertiser to make "1 short post". Who is going to keep
>track of these? You know the pressure will then translate to increasing the
>length and/or frequency of these ads. Once we start down this slippery slope,
>there will be no stopping as each new advertiser can claim that it was done
>before so he should be able to to advertise also. I persist with the view
>that advertising does not belong here. Period!
Hear! Hear! I can't think of a faster way to kill
this newsgroup than allowing advertising, commercials,
or even infomercials. To allow one is to allow all.
If it happens, you can sign me off -- permanently.
Larry Swift la...@pdn.paradyne.com
AT&T Paradyne, LG-133 Phone: (813) 530-8605
8545 - 126th Avenue, North FAX: (813) 532-5244
Largo, FL, 34649-2826 She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!
ettings
>Hear! Hear! I can't think of a faster way to kill
>this newsgroup than allowing advertising, commercials,
>or even infomercials. To allow one is to allow all.
>If it happens, you can sign me off -- permanently.
>
>Larry Swift la...@pdn.paradyne.com
>AT&T Paradyne, LG-133 Phone: (813) 530-8605
>8545 - 126th Avenue, North FAX: (813) 532-5244
>Largo, FL, 34649-2826 She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!
MEssage Control Mode... and become the brain police... that you won't be able to
control it. I also suspect that either a new newsgroup of exclusively NO
NEWS will be developed (rec.boats.noadverts!) or you will be signing off
in short order. Too bad. You probably have a lot to offer.
In any case, Boating is more fun than netting about boating!
Richard Beers
Larry DeMers
Richard: My you are rather pessimistic aren't you. Let me get this straight.
You suggest that we should just bend over and let the news group get eaten up
by commercial interests rather than attempt to hold the flood back, as we are
doing now. Nobody is suggesting that anyone become the "brain police". Also,
how do you make your conclusion (I think) that unless we let the commercial
interests in here, that there is no news???!? There is a lot of news reported
here, but that is not the only good thing about this newsgroup. It is a place
where questions get answered, feelings get expressed, bad jokes get aired,
theories are discussed, and a whole lot more. Larry Swift does have a lot to
offer the net, as do a lot of other folks. This would disappear, either
immediately or over time, if the advertisers are granted their wishes.
I also disagree with the implication in your last statement. Boating IS
more fun than just about anything else, but most of us work for a living or
have very hard water in the winter. So, the news group provides a really
rewarding and fun place for people to meet.
To wit: I just received a letter from a gentleman that I met on the net.
His name is Janek Czaplinski, and we have been corresponding for 6 months or so.He lives in Krakow, Poland, and is a sailor when he can sail. He doesn't own
his own boat (hardly anyone does in Poland), but crews for racing syndicates
and friends. We met over a discussion of the design of a wind generator for
his friends boat. That has spawned a friendship that is rewarding for both
of us. This would obviously not have happened if the net did not exist.
Larry DeMers
S/V DeLaMer
John Anastasio
> Larry Swift <la...@paradyne.com> writes:
>
> >Hear! Hear! I can't think of a faster way to kill
> >this newsgroup than allowing advertising, commercials,
> >or even infomercials. To allow one is to allow all.
> >If it happens, you can sign me off -- permanently.
> >
> >Larry
> I suspect that unless you are willing to spend all your walking hours in
> MEssage Control Mode... and become the brain police... that you won't be
able to
> control it. I also suspect that either a new newsgroup of exclusively NO
> NEWS will be developed (rec.boats.noadverts!) or you will be signing off
> in short order. Too bad. You probably have a lot to offer.
>
> In any case, Boating is more fun than netting about boating!
> Richard Beers
You're so right Richard, I should just give up trying to get away from the
thousands of commericals that bombard me every day? Better to just take
your advice and give in and be the automaton .At least being on the Net
used to protect me from the phone calls in the evening from people trying
to sell me something, but I guees you'd say it serves me right for having
a listed phone number and how right you'd be Richard, it is downright
unAmerican to not subject myself to the the masses trying to make their
way into my wallet, when I didn't want it, don't want it and NEVER WILL
WANT IT!!!!!!!
ESGrossman
(Larry DeMers) writes:
The rec.boating is to get information from each other. Knowing where to
save a few bucks on this rediculously expensive hobby is second on my list
of important boating issues, the "hot" fishing site being the first.
Elliot Grossman
ell...@msmc.com