Boat US or Sea Tow: food for thought. From another forum.
RGrew176
Sea Tow International
1560 Youngs Avenue
Southold NY 11971
Sea Tow Services Treasure Coast, Inc.
P.O. Box 1220
Port Salerno FL 34992
Re: Towing Service May 8th 2002
Dear Sirs:
I am writing this letter in regards to an incident that occurred Wednesday, May
8th, 2002, off the coast of South Florida. I am a member of Sea Tow and have
been since 1999.
On May 4th, 2002, I left Florida in my vessel for a vacation in the Bahamas. I
crossed without incident and arrived in Walkers Cay, North Abaco, Bahamas. My
vessel is a 23 Dusky Walkaround model. I had a buddy boat that made the
crossing at the same time, a 23 Mako Walkaround owned by John Arnold.
Both vessels are maintained to the highest of standards and outfitted with full
USCG gear, including a 406 MHZ EPIRB with internal GPS that I carry onboard.
The vacation was pleasurable until our attempted return to the United States.
On May 8th, 2002, while returning to Florida, my vessel became disabled with an
engine malfunction. I attempted repairs to no avail. At this point my vessel
was 38 NM from West End, Grand Bahama Island, and 44 NM from the Saint Lucie
Inlet in Stuart Florida. All crew on both vessels were fine, except for the
stress of my vessel being crippled. I told all hands not to worry as I am a
member of Sea Tow and all that was necessary was to make contact with Sea Tow
and the “Road Service at Sea” would come to the rescue. Nothing could have
been farther from the truth.
The sea conditions at the time were 1-3 foot seas (if that) with a moderate 10
knot South East wind. Based on our position and the prevailing weather, the
decision was made to begin towing my vessel towards Florida. After
approximately 45 minutes, a vessel with the call sign “Dream Too” made
contact with us and relayed our information to Sea Tow West End/Freeport. What
happened next was almost beyond disbelief.
Sea Tow West End/Freeport advised against us heading for Florida. Their
recommendation was that the vessel given assistance should set my vessel free
and they would be on-scene in approximately 5 hours to tow my vessel to West
End. Again, I repeated that I was ‘on the hump’ distance-wise between West
End and Saint Lucie Inlet. I requested that Sea Tow West End/Freeport call Sea
Tow Treasure Coast to dispatch a vessel to my position to tow my vessel to Fort
Pierce. I did so based on experience. Approximately two years ago another
vessel from Fort Pierce was making the exact run I was currently on and broke
down on Matanilla Shoal, which is 50 NM from Fort Pierce. Sea Tow dispatched a
vessel to them and returned them to Fort Pierce.
After several long minutes waiting for an answer, I was again informed that I
should turn towards West End. My buddy boat was just beginning to run short on
fuel. I again REPEATED the information that I was now less than 44 NM from
Saint Lucie Inlet, a member of Sea Tow, and I was in need of assistance.
Silence on the part of Sea Tow. Sea Tow Treasure Coast then informed us via Sea
Tow West End/Freeport that “gulf stream conditions would not allow them to
safely make the crossing to our location.” I am not sure where Sea Tow
Treasure Coast gets their information, but as I informed the Coast Guard, if
the conditions were any better, I could have water skied to Florida. I was
beyond disbelief at Sea Tow Treasure Coasts lack of assistance.
It was then reported to me that if I continued on my course, that once we were
West of the Gulf Stream Sea Tow would be available to assist. Even though it
was determined that my buddy boat would not have the fuel necessary to make it
all the way if towing a load, we determined that if Sea Tow met us on the
‘other side’ of the Gulf Stream, I would be towed by Sea Tow Treasure
Coast, allowing my buddy boat to continue on to Florida unhindered and with
enough fuel to make it all the way. I was told to alter my course to Saint
Lucie Inlet to further shorten the distance to land fall. I complied with the
request.
Hours ticked away. Thirty miles from Saint Lucie Inlet I began hailing Sea Tow
for assistance. I was answered by Sea Tow Fort Lauderdale and I informed them
of my situation and requested they contact Sea Tow Treasure Coast and inform
them, once again, that I was a member of Sea Tow, I was in need of assistance,
and I was only 30 NM from Florida. I gave my specific position. Silence on the
part of Sea Tow Treasure Coast. It was now late in the day, I was past due and
my parents (who are also Sea Tow members) with whom I left a float plan were
beginning to worry.
I repeatedly made attempts to contact Sea Tow Treasure Coast to no avail. The
United Stated Coast Guard then intervened. I was contacted by Coast Guard
Station Lake Worth and asked why I was continually attempting to hail Sea Tow.
I fully informed them of the situation and position. Thankfully the Coast Guard
stated they would contact Sea Tow. I was asked if there was any distress. I
told the Coast Guard there wouldn’t be as long as Sea Tow did it’s job for
a Sea Tow member and honor the contract by coming to my aid and towing me to
port.
To my complete disbelief, silence on the part of Sea Tow Treasure Coast. Hours
passed again and thankfully, when I was within 20 NM of land, I obtained cell
phone coverage and made the call to my parents and informed them of the
situation. My mother then called Sea Tow Treasure Coast directly. She was met
by a rude, offensive person who stated that they were aware of the situation
since that morning, and that I should not have left West End with a broken down
engine under tow. My mother was further informed by this rude person that I was
25 NM from land which my mother knew was completely false as I had relayed my
position to her and she knew for certain that I was exactly 20 NM from land.
Further, I was no where near West End, and had left from Walkers Cay.
After a brief exchange my mother was informed that a Sea Tow vessel would be
immediately dispatched to my position and I wold be home before nightfall. Once
again completely false. I was contacted by Coast Guard Lake Worth and informed
that Sea Tow was in-route and that I was to change course and head for Fort
Pierce Inlet as Sea Tow was leaving from Fort Pierce and would intercept. At
that point, I was definite my buddy boat would run out of fuel because of the
course change but I complied as Sea Tow assured me, my mother, and the United
Stated Coast Guard that they were coming to assist. Again, completely false.
I came within 19 NM of Fort Pierce Inlet and my buddy boat ran out of fuel. I
radioed the Coast Guard and stated my position and that both vessels were now
dead in the water and please confirm that Sea Tow was in-route to assist. Once
again to my complete disbelief Sea Tow had yet to even dispatch a boat. Sea Tow
finally dispatched a boat that took an hour to reach us. Had Sea Tow Treasure
Coast dispatched a vessel when first contacted, my buddy boat would not have
run out of fuel, I would have been towed to port by Sea Tow, and would have
arrived hours earlier.
It is now 7:00 p.m. Another surprise was waiting. I then discovered that my
buddy boat was not a member of Sea Tow and they were being charged $705.00 for
the delivery of ten gallons of gas. I was completely in shock at this point.
Had Sea Tow Treasure Coast done its job and come to my assistance when I was 30
NM from shore, my buddy boat would have never run out of fuel. Sea Tow Treasure
Coast breached the contract I had with Sea Tow International and acted in bad
faith. It is clear that both vessels were being ‘set-up’ by Sea Tow
Treasure Coast to become completely disabled. Via the Internet, my mother
pulled up the NOAA weather information and it is documented that sea conditions
during the entire day were no higher than 3 feet, even in the Gulf Stream. With
reckless disregard as to the safety of both vessels, Sea Tow Treasure Coast
falsely reported that conditions were unsafe for them to render assistance,
falsely reported they were in-route, and completely failed to come to a
member’s assistance.
To give you an idea of the sea state, my buddy boat, with a mere ½ inch tow
line, successfully pulled my vessel (which when fully loaded weighs over 4,500
pounds) over 35 NM at an average speed of 7.5 knots, including through the Gulf
Stream. In addition, once Sea Tow finally arrived at my position (19NM off Fort
Pierce) I was towed in at a speed of 22 Knots, a feat which would be impossible
in what Sea Tow claimed were ‘unsafe seas.’ I have documented the sea state
on both video camera and regular film.
Now I will inform you as to the purpose of this letter. I cannot express in
words the complete dissatisfaction I have with Sea Tow. The willful disregard
to come to the aid of a member is in bad faith, in breach of contract, and is
grossly negligent. Demand is hereby made that you waive the $705.00 fee charged
to the vessel ‘Stress Management’ owned by Dr. John Arnold. Failure to do
so will leave no alternative but to seek redress in court. Please be advised
that if suit becomes necessary, all costs, attorney’s fees, and damages will
be sought against Sea Tow International and Sea Tow Treasure Coast, Inc.
If I do not hear a response within two (2) business days of receipt of this
letter, I will go forward with litigation. Please govern yourself accordingly.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact this office.
Very Truly Yours,
Scott G. Ryals, Esq.
Duane
are you paying for a promise
or
are you paying for a service.
Duane
Bchbound
knows..
In article <20020510192523...@mb-cd.aol.com>,
rgre...@aol.com says...
Gould 0738
>> recommendation was that the vessel given assistance should set my vessel
>free
>> and they would be on-scene in approximately 5 hours to tow my vessel to
>West
>> End.
$ure. Probably right into the repair yard owned by the $ea Tow franchi$ee. And
for gosh $ake$, get that other boat off the $cene and reduce the poor guy'$
option$ to one. (don't want any complication$ with a claim for $alvage when the
repair bill i$ a$tronomical). :-(
RGrew176
>Would Boat U.S. Come 30 miles out to Sea? Just wondering if anybody
>knows..
Good question. I boat on the Great Lakes and there are many places where one
could be 30 miles or more from land. I have the Boat US towing service and
fortunately I have not had to use it so far. Hope my luck continues to hold up.
I wonder how this story will end?
K. Smith
Sorry about the incident etc, can I ask ??
(i) What happened to your motor & what sort is it??
(ii) Was there any reason you couldn't get fuel from your boat to your mates??
can't get out of tanks? too rough?? no containers??, no hoses or pumping ability??
Best regards,
K
> and the â??Road Service at Seaâ?? would come to the rescue. Nothing could have
> been farther from the truth.
>
> The sea conditions at the time were 1-3 foot seas (if that) with a moderate 10
> knot South East wind. Based on our position and the prevailing weather, the
> decision was made to begin towing my vessel towards Florida. After
> approximately 45 minutes, a vessel with the call sign â??Dream Tooâ?? made
> contact with us and relayed our information to Sea Tow West End/Freeport. What
> happened next was almost beyond disbelief.
>
> Sea Tow West End/Freeport advised against us heading for Florida. Their
> recommendation was that the vessel given assistance should set my vessel free
> and they would be on-scene in approximately 5 hours to tow my vessel to West
> End. Again, I repeated that I was â?~on the humpâ?? distance-wise between West
> End and Saint Lucie Inlet. I requested that Sea Tow West End/Freeport call Sea
> Tow Treasure Coast to dispatch a vessel to my position to tow my vessel to Fort
> Pierce. I did so based on experience. Approximately two years ago another
> vessel from Fort Pierce was making the exact run I was currently on and broke
> down on Matanilla Shoal, which is 50 NM from Fort Pierce. Sea Tow dispatched a
> vessel to them and returned them to Fort Pierce.
>
> After several long minutes waiting for an answer, I was again informed that I
> should turn towards West End. My buddy boat was just beginning to run short on
> fuel. I again REPEATED the information that I was now less than 44 NM from
> Saint Lucie Inlet, a member of Sea Tow, and I was in need of assistance.
> Silence on the part of Sea Tow. Sea Tow Treasure Coast then informed us via Sea
> Tow West End/Freeport that â??gulf stream conditions would not allow them to
> safely make the crossing to our location.â?? I am not sure where Sea Tow
> Treasure Coast gets their information, but as I informed the Coast Guard, if
> the conditions were any better, I could have water skied to Florida. I was
> beyond disbelief at Sea Tow Treasure Coasts lack of assistance.
>
> It was then reported to me that if I continued on my course, that once we were
> West of the Gulf Stream Sea Tow would be available to assist. Even though it
> was determined that my buddy boat would not have the fuel necessary to make it
> all the way if towing a load, we determined that if Sea Tow met us on the
> â?~other sideâ?? of the Gulf Stream, I would be towed by Sea Tow Treasure
> Coast, allowing my buddy boat to continue on to Florida unhindered and with
> enough fuel to make it all the way. I was told to alter my course to Saint
> Lucie Inlet to further shorten the distance to land fall. I complied with the
> request.
>
> Hours ticked away. Thirty miles from Saint Lucie Inlet I began hailing Sea Tow
> for assistance. I was answered by Sea Tow Fort Lauderdale and I informed them
> of my situation and requested they contact Sea Tow Treasure Coast and inform
> them, once again, that I was a member of Sea Tow, I was in need of assistance,
> and I was only 30 NM from Florida. I gave my specific position. Silence on the
> part of Sea Tow Treasure Coast. It was now late in the day, I was past due and
> my parents (who are also Sea Tow members) with whom I left a float plan were
> beginning to worry.
>
> I repeatedly made attempts to contact Sea Tow Treasure Coast to no avail. The
> United Stated Coast Guard then intervened. I was contacted by Coast Guard
> Station Lake Worth and asked why I was continually attempting to hail Sea Tow.
> I fully informed them of the situation and position. Thankfully the Coast Guard
> stated they would contact Sea Tow. I was asked if there was any distress. I
> told the Coast Guard there wouldnâ??t be as long as Sea Tow did itâ??s job for
> faith. It is clear that both vessels were being â?~set-upâ?? by Sea Tow
> Treasure Coast to become completely disabled. Via the Internet, my mother
> pulled up the NOAA weather information and it is documented that sea conditions
> during the entire day were no higher than 3 feet, even in the Gulf Stream. With
> reckless disregard as to the safety of both vessels, Sea Tow Treasure Coast
> falsely reported that conditions were unsafe for them to render assistance,
> falsely reported they were in-route, and completely failed to come to a
> memberâ??s assistance.
>
> To give you an idea of the sea state, my buddy boat, with a mere ½ inch tow
> line, successfully pulled my vessel (which when fully loaded weighs over 4,500
> pounds) over 35 NM at an average speed of 7.5 knots, including through the Gulf
> Stream. In addition, once Sea Tow finally arrived at my position (19NM off Fort
> Pierce) I was towed in at a speed of 22 Knots, a feat which would be impossible
> in what Sea Tow claimed were â?~unsafe seas.â?? I have documented the sea state
> on both video camera and regular film.
>
> Now I will inform you as to the purpose of this letter. I cannot express in
> words the complete dissatisfaction I have with Sea Tow. The willful disregard
> to come to the aid of a member is in bad faith, in breach of contract, and is
> grossly negligent. Demand is hereby made that you waive the $705.00 fee charged
> to the vessel â?~Stress Managementâ?? owned by Dr. John Arnold. Failure to do
> so will leave no alternative but to seek redress in court. Please be advised
> that if suit becomes necessary, all costs, attorneyâ??s fees, and damages will
K. Smith
Is this really you Gould?? You sound like you're a bit sceptical yourself of a
commercial ripoff operator !!!
Good on you.
Best regards,
K
John Chaplain
I am a member of Seatow and had one good experience but only a mile or
two from base.
I've only joined for one year and stories like this could make me
reconsider Boat US for next year.
John Chaplain
What the heack is that supposed to mean?
When you sign up for SeaTow, BoatUS or AAA, you are paying for a
promise for service. Or was that just some kind of Clint Eastwoody
statement?
Gould 0738
>of a
>commercial ripoff operator !!!
>
> Good on you.
>
>Best regards,
>
>K
When a person deals with folks in many professions, common sense dictates that
they should take a cautious approach. I've had gigs where my job has been to
extract as much cash from the buyer as possible, and I've done very well at
it. But people have always had a reasonable expectation that wary negotiation
will be part of the process. It isn't right to hide behind the "public service"
facade.
There are some scalawags in the tow business who are actually in the inflated
rape-air and salvage claim business. Not all, certainly, but you have to wonder
about the motivation of any company that advises
a disabled boater to send the assisting vessel away and drift around for "5
hours" until they might get a boat out. I've assisted disabled boats, and if
commercial assistance is on the way the drill is to stand by until the tow boat
arrives. A legitimate tow operator would have suggested same.
Difficulty here probably arose when the private vessel began towing. Any
possibility of a salvage claim was reduced.
K. Smith
Oh don't misunderstand me Chuck; I'm with you in this all the way (sorry it
must be a worry for you;-)). Indeed it seems the coast guard were even getting
worried about having maybe 2 disabled boats well offshore in the dark?? All
because the "prepaid" commercial provider was being a smart arse. It seems the
franchisees even got into a turf war between each other, treating the rightly
worried owner as cannon fodder, then instructing bad course changes to suit their
ends. Needless to say had the owner not followed, they would have used that as one
of their lame excuses, good on this as a posted story, should make some others
more wary.
K
Ed McManus
also expect to get towed back to Florida. I better reread my contract.
--
To Mail; replace invalid with com
"John Chaplain" <chap...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:rj1pdugoqoae09qgp...@4ax.com...
Wayne B
us who have been boating for a long time have needed help at one time
or another, and have been glad to get it. Most of us have also paid
more than we would have like for marine services at some time, maybe
most of the time. In the grand scale of things however this story
actually has a reasonably happy ending.
Let's look at the flip side: Two single engine open outboard boats
more than 45 miles out in the ocean, marginal fuel supplies, in a
foreign country and/or international water, constant potential for
tropical gulfstream storms. What's wrong with this picture? If I
were a rescue boat called in to help, would I want to be well
compensated for my expenses, trouble and risk ? You bet. What are
the limits of coverage in the SeaTow contract? It's pretty clear to
me that this situation is well above and well beyond the normal SeaTow
"rescue". And is insurance supposed to cover the uninsured good
samaritan? I had SeaTow coverage at one time and there was no mention
of buddy boats in my contract.
============================================================
On 10 May 2002 23:25:23 GMT, rgre...@aol.com (RGrew176) wrote:
Ed McManus
--
"Wayne B" <Way...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:k9ardukee72ufpdii...@4ax.com...
> It's easy enough to relate to this story and be sympathetic. Most of
> us who have been boating for a long time have needed help at one time
> or another, and have been glad to get it. Most of us have also paid
> more than we would have like for marine services at some time, maybe
> most of the time. In the grand scale of things however this story
> actually has a reasonably happy ending.
>
> Let's look at the flip side: Two single engine open outboard boats
> more than 45 miles out in the ocean, marginal fuel supplies, in a
> foreign country and/or international water, constant potential for
> tropical gulfstream storms. What's wrong with this picture?
Other than the "buddy boat" not having an adequate fuel supply, if the
weather is fine and the boats are equipped for a Gulfstream crossing,
nothing is wrong here.
> If I
> were a rescue boat called in to help, would I want to be well
> compensated for my expenses, trouble and risk ? You bet.
And they are. That's why I'm paying him $100 year.
> What are
> the limits of coverage in the SeaTow contract? It's pretty clear to
> me that this situation is well above and well beyond the normal SeaTow
> "rescue".
Although the writter doesn't say, Sea Tow does offer coverage for the
Bahamas.
If I break down half way to Bimini, I darn well expect them to come and
get me.
> And is insurance supposed to cover the uninsured good
> samaritan? I had SeaTow coverage at one time and there was no mention
> of buddy boats in my contract.
Buddy Boats not included.
K. Smith
> --
> "Wayne B" <Way...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:k9ardukee72ufpdii...@4ax.com...
> > It's easy enough to relate to this story and be sympathetic. Most of
> > us who have been boating for a long time have needed help at one time
> > or another, and have been glad to get it. Most of us have also paid
> > more than we would have like for marine services at some time, maybe
> > most of the time. In the grand scale of things however this story
> > actually has a reasonably happy ending.
> >
> > Let's look at the flip side: Two single engine open outboard boats
> > more than 45 miles out in the ocean, marginal fuel supplies, in a
> > foreign country and/or international water, constant potential for
> > tropical gulfstream storms. What's wrong with this picture?
>
> Other than the "buddy boat" not having an adequate fuel supply, if the
> weather is fine and the boats are equipped for a Gulfstream crossing,
> nothing is wrong here.
>
I'm still interested as to why the broken boat couldn't give fuel to
the buddy boat???? indeed I would have thought that might have been part of
the buddy plan all along??? Is it just too dangerous??? too hard to
organise or what.?? We on occasions have transferred diesel from drums into
the tanks at sea, even when not dead calm, although clearly petrol is
potentially a different matter I accept.
>
> > If I
> > were a rescue boat called in to help, would I want to be well
> > compensated for my expenses, trouble and risk ? You bet.
>
> And they are. That's why I'm paying him $100 year.
>
> > What are
> > the limits of coverage in the SeaTow contract? It's pretty clear to
> > me that this situation is well above and well beyond the normal SeaTow
> > "rescue".
>
> Although the writter doesn't say, Sea Tow does offer coverage for the
> Bahamas.
> If I break down half way to Bimini, I darn well expect them to come and
> get me.
>
> > And is insurance supposed to cover the uninsured good
> > samaritan? I had SeaTow coverage at one time and there was no mention
> > of buddy boats in my contract.
>
> Buddy Boats not included.
I'm not familiar with the system you have there but here anyway the
franchisee gets paid & very well paid to perform whatever on behalf of the
insurer. So why the reluctance to come out??? it's money for jam. It seems
not only wouldn't the obvious bloke come out, but he wouldn't actually
declare he wouldn't, pretended it all might just go away?? unexpected
change in the weather & it very well might have!!
K
Jim Donohue
built-in fuel transfer system but they apparently were two foot short when
push came to shove of being able to do a transfer. With diesel gallon jugs
will do. With gas I don't know whether I would do the transfer in gallons
quantities or not. In the middle of the gulf stream? How desperate am I?
Jim
"K. Smith" <ksm...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3CDDC266...@tpg.com.au...
Jim Donohue
of 25 miles to each side and 25 miles to sea. Outside of that they provide
a fixed sum against whatever the tow bill is. While I agree Sea Tow and its
imperial spokesperson Les Hall are truly slimy I think it also true that
their contract is not really open ended. Being in Real Estate I suggest you
read the contract rather than the advertising literature.
The real problem here is that SeaTow is sometimes able to manuever
straightforward tows into salvage runs at 10 times the profit. That may
well be what was going on in ths case. What we really need is to have these
"statutory" tow guys barred from salvage on those wiith whom they contract.
Read the threads on Florida Sportfishing
http://www.floridasportsman.com/
and Boaters Ed. You will have to look that one up.
Really entertaining. Les has his standard syncophants running over to Fla.
Sport to defend his honor. They are getting their heads handed to them.
Les is however holding the home front...in his standard fashion he simple
deletes all those who disagree with his pronouncements. The latest crime
for disbarment is "muddying the waters" which, I think, translates into
disagreeing with Les or SeaTow. It is nice to note that a little facism
still sells...suppresses all the good discussions but he runs a clean list.
Best marketing for Boat/US in years.
Jim
"Eugene Kearns" <ewke...@triad.brrb.com> wrote in message
news:1mfrdussk6fofg7ng...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 11 May 2002 23:53:54 GMT, Wayne B <Way...@nospam.com>
> pontificated:
>
> Assuming story, as related, is true......
>
>
> # It's easy enough to relate to this story and be sympathetic. Most
> of
> # us who have been boating for a long time have needed help at one
> time
> # or another, and have been glad to get it. Most of us have also paid
> # more than we would have like for marine services at some time, maybe
> # most of the time.
>
> Duh, that is why we buy overpriced policies to cover this sort of
> thing.
>
> #In the grand scale of things however this story
> # actually has a reasonably happy ending.
> #
> # Let's look at the flip side: Two single engine open outboard boats
> # more than 45 miles out in the ocean, marginal fuel supplies, in a
> # foreign country and/or international water, constant potential for
> # tropical gulfstream storms. What's wrong with this picture?
>
> Absolutely nothing. Neither of these boats were marginal on fuel
> until they trusted Sea Tow to honor their contract and ensuing
> telephonic assurances of help.
>
> # If I
> # were a rescue boat called in to help, would I want to be well
> # compensated for my expenses, trouble and risk ? You bet. What are
> # the limits of coverage in the SeaTow contract?
>
> Want the facts instead of your incorrect conjecture? Truth:
>
> Sea Tow provides Unlimited Service Area Towing - No dollar, distance
> or time limits. The covered vessel will be towed back to its home
> port, or another dock of choice at no charge. Our members don't worry
> about having a towing coverage limit - because Sea Tow Provides
> Unlimited Free Service Area Towing. With commercial marine towing
> rates as high as $175.00 per hour, our "Road Service at Sea"
> Membership program can protect - not only your boat and family - but
> your wallet as well!
>
> Source? http://www.4seatow.com/benefits.htm#towing Check me, if you
> doubt.
>
>
> #It's pretty clear to
> # me that this situation is well above and well beyond the normal
> #SeaTow
> # "rescue".
>
> According to their contract, there is no "normal". What is your
> point? How do YOU define normal, when you have paid for the above
> mentioned coverage?
>
> # And is insurance supposed to cover the uninsured good
> # samaritan? I had SeaTow coverage at one time and there was no #
> mention
> # of buddy boats in my contract.
> #
>
> The buddy boat was a "good samaritan" only because Sea Tow failed to
> perform. His only legal recourse was to set the disabled boat adrift
> and carry the disabled boat's crew to safety....... Great idea for
> the $alvor. dontcha think???
>
> # ============================================================
> #
> # On 10 May 2002 23:25:23 GMT, rgre...@aol.com (RGrew176) wrote:
> #
> # >May 9th, 2002
> # >Sea Tow International
> # >1560 Youngs Avenue
> # >Southold NY 11971
> # >
> # >Sea Tow Services Treasure Coast, Inc.
> # >P.O. Box 1220
> # >Port Salerno FL 34992
> # >
> # >Re: Towing Service May 8th 2002
> # >
> # >Dear Sirs:
> # >
> # >I am writing this letter in regards to an incident that occurred
> Wednesday, May
> # >8th, 2002, off the coast of South Florida. I am a member of Sea Tow
> and have
> # >been since 1999.
> # >
> # >On May 4th, 2002, I left Florida in my vessel for a vacation in the
> Bahamas. I
> # >crossed without incident and arrived in Walkers Cay, North Abaco,
> Bahamas. My
> # >vessel is a 23 Dusky Walkaround model. I had a buddy boat that made
> the
> # >crossing at the same time, a 23 Mako Walkaround owned by John
> Arnold.
> # >
> # >Both vessels are maintained to the highest of standards and
> outfitted with full
> # >USCG gear, including a 406 MHZ EPIRB with internal GPS that I carry
> onboard.
> # >The vacation was pleasurable until our attempted return to the
> United States.
> # >
> # >On May 8th, 2002, while returning to Florida, my vessel became
> disabled with an
> # >engine malfunction. I attempted repairs to no avail. At this point
> my vessel
> # >was 38 NM from West End, Grand Bahama Island, and 44 NM from the
> Saint Lucie
> # >Inlet in Stuart Florida. All crew on both vessels were fine, except
> for the
> # >stress of my vessel being crippled. I told all hands not to worry
> as I am a
> # >member of Sea Tow and all that was necessary was to make contact
> with Sea Tow
> # >and the "Road Service at Sea" would come to the rescue. Nothing
> could have
> # >been farther from the truth.
> # >
> # >The sea conditions at the time were 1-3 foot seas (if that) with a
> moderate 10
> # >knot South East wind. Based on our position and the prevailing
> weather, the
> # >decision was made to begin towing my vessel towards Florida. After
> # >approximately 45 minutes, a vessel with the call sign "Dream Too"
> made
> # >contact with us and relayed our information to Sea Tow West
> End/Freeport. What
> # >happened next was almost beyond disbelief.
> # >
> # >Sea Tow West End/Freeport advised against us heading for Florida.
> Their
> # >recommendation was that the vessel given assistance should set my
> vessel free
> # >and they would be on-scene in approximately 5 hours to tow my
> vessel to West
> # >End. Again, I repeated that I was 'on the hump' distance-wise
> between West
> # >End and Saint Lucie Inlet. I requested that Sea Tow West
> End/Freeport call Sea
> # >Tow Treasure Coast to dispatch a vessel to my position to tow my
> vessel to Fort
> # >Pierce. I did so based on experience. Approximately two years ago
> another
> # >vessel from Fort Pierce was making the exact run I was currently on
> and broke
> # >down on Matanilla Shoal, which is 50 NM from Fort Pierce. Sea Tow
> dispatched a
> # >vessel to them and returned them to Fort Pierce.
> # >
> # >After several long minutes waiting for an answer, I was again
> informed that I
> # >should turn towards West End. My buddy boat was just beginning to
> run short on
> # >fuel. I again REPEATED the information that I was now less than 44
> NM from
> # >Saint Lucie Inlet, a member of Sea Tow, and I was in need of
> assistance.
> # >Silence on the part of Sea Tow. Sea Tow Treasure Coast then
> informed us via Sea
> # >Tow West End/Freeport that "gulf stream conditions would not allow
> them to
> # >safely make the crossing to our location." I am not sure where Sea
> Tow
> # >Treasure Coast gets their information, but as I informed the Coast
> Guard, if
> # >the conditions were any better, I could have water skied to
> Florida. I was
> # >beyond disbelief at Sea Tow Treasure Coasts lack of assistance.
> # >
> # >It was then reported to me that if I continued on my course, that
> once we were
> # >West of the Gulf Stream Sea Tow would be available to assist. Even
> though it
> # >was determined that my buddy boat would not have the fuel necessary
> to make it
> # >all the way if towing a load, we determined that if Sea Tow met us
> on the
> # >'other side' of the Gulf Stream, I would be towed by Sea Tow
> Treasure
> # >Coast, allowing my buddy boat to continue on to Florida unhindered
> and with
> # >enough fuel to make it all the way. I was told to alter my course
> to Saint
> # >Lucie Inlet to further shorten the distance to land fall. I
> complied with the
> # >request.
> # >
> # >Hours ticked away. Thirty miles from Saint Lucie Inlet I began
> hailing Sea Tow
> # >for assistance. I was answered by Sea Tow Fort Lauderdale and I
> informed them
> # >of my situation and requested they contact Sea Tow Treasure Coast
> and inform
> # >them, once again, that I was a member of Sea Tow, I was in need of
> assistance,
> # >and I was only 30 NM from Florida. I gave my specific position.
> Silence on the
> # >part of Sea Tow Treasure Coast. It was now late in the day, I was
> past due and
> # >my parents (who are also Sea Tow members) with whom I left a float
> plan were
> # >beginning to worry.
> # >
> # >I repeatedly made attempts to contact Sea Tow Treasure Coast to no
> avail. The
> # >United Stated Coast Guard then intervened. I was contacted by Coast
> Guard
> # >Station Lake Worth and asked why I was continually attempting to
> hail Sea Tow.
> # >I fully informed them of the situation and position. Thankfully the
> Coast Guard
> # >stated they would contact Sea Tow. I was asked if there was any
> distress. I
> # >told the Coast Guard there wouldn't be as long as Sea Tow did it's
> job for
> # >a Sea Tow member and honor the contract by coming to my aid and
> towing me to
> # >port.
> # >
> # >To my complete disbelief, silence on the part of Sea Tow Treasure
> Coast. Hours
> # >passed again and thankfully, when I was within 20 NM of land, I
> obtained cell
> # >phone coverage and made the call to my parents and informed them of
> the
> # >situation. My mother then called Sea Tow Treasure Coast directly.
> She was met
> # >by a rude, offensive person who stated that they were aware of the
> situation
> # >since that morning, and that I should not have left West End with a
> broken down
> # >engine under tow. My mother was further informed by this rude
> person that I was
> # >25 NM from land which my mother knew was completely false as I had
> relayed my
> # >position to her and she knew for certain that I was exactly 20 NM
> from land.
> # >Further, I was no where near West End, and had left from Walkers
> Cay.
> # >
> # >After a brief exchange my mother was informed that a Sea Tow vessel
> would be
> # >immediately dispatched to my position and I wold be home before
> nightfall. Once
> # >again completely false. I was contacted by Coast Guard Lake Worth
> and informed
> # >that Sea Tow was in-route and that I was to change course and head
> for Fort
> # >Pierce Inlet as Sea Tow was leaving from Fort Pierce and would
> intercept. At
> # >that point, I was definite my buddy boat would run out of fuel
> because of the
> # >course change but I complied as Sea Tow assured me, my mother, and
> the United
> # >Stated Coast Guard that they were coming to assist. Again,
> completely false.
> # >
> # >I came within 19 NM of Fort Pierce Inlet and my buddy boat ran out
> of fuel. I
> # >radioed the Coast Guard and stated my position and that both
> vessels were now
> # >dead in the water and please confirm that Sea Tow was in-route to
> assist. Once
> # >again to my complete disbelief Sea Tow had yet to even dispatch a
> boat. Sea Tow
> # >finally dispatched a boat that took an hour to reach us. Had Sea
> Tow Treasure
> # >Coast dispatched a vessel when first contacted, my buddy boat would
> not have
> # >run out of fuel, I would have been towed to port by Sea Tow, and
> would have
> # >arrived hours earlier.
> # >
> # >It is now 7:00 p.m. Another surprise was waiting. I then discovered
> that my
> # >buddy boat was not a member of Sea Tow and they were being charged
> $705.00 for
> # >the delivery of ten gallons of gas. I was completely in shock at
> this point.
> # >Had Sea Tow Treasure Coast done its job and come to my assistance
> when I was 30
> # >NM from shore, my buddy boat would have never run out of fuel. Sea
> Tow Treasure
> # >Coast breached the contract I had with Sea Tow International and
> acted in bad
> # >faith. It is clear that both vessels were being 'set-up' by Sea Tow
> # >Treasure Coast to become completely disabled. Via the Internet, my
> mother
> # >pulled up the NOAA weather information and it is documented that
> sea conditions
> # >during the entire day were no higher than 3 feet, even in the Gulf
> Stream. With
> # >reckless disregard as to the safety of both vessels, Sea Tow
> Treasure Coast
> # >falsely reported that conditions were unsafe for them to render
> assistance,
> # >falsely reported they were in-route, and completely failed to come
> to a
> # >member's assistance.
> # >
> # >
> # >To give you an idea of the sea state, my buddy boat, with a mere ˝
> inch tow
> # >line, successfully pulled my vessel (which when fully loaded weighs
> over 4,500
> # >pounds) over 35 NM at an average speed of 7.5 knots, including
> through the Gulf
> # >Stream. In addition, once Sea Tow finally arrived at my position
> (19NM off Fort
> # >Pierce) I was towed in at a speed of 22 Knots, a feat which would
> be impossible
> # >in what Sea Tow claimed were 'unsafe seas.' I have documented the
> sea state
> # >on both video camera and regular film.
> # >
> # >Now I will inform you as to the purpose of this letter. I cannot
> express in
> # >words the complete dissatisfaction I have with Sea Tow. The willful
> disregard
> # >to come to the aid of a member is in bad faith, in breach of
> contract, and is
> # >grossly negligent. Demand is hereby made that you waive the $705.00
> fee charged
> # >to the vessel 'Stress Management' owned by Dr. John Arnold. Failure
> to do
> # >so will leave no alternative but to seek redress in court. Please
> be advised
> # >that if suit becomes necessary, all costs, attorney's fees, and
> damages will
> # >be sought against Sea Tow International and Sea Tow Treasure Coast,
> Inc.
> # >
> # >If I do not hear a response within two (2) business days of receipt
> of this
> # >letter, I will go forward with litigation. Please govern yourself
> accordingly.
> # >If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact this
> office.
> # >
> # >Very Truly Yours,
> # >
> # >Scott G. Ryals, Esq.
> # >
> # >
>
>
>
> --
> 23' Grady White, out of Oak Island, NC.
> To Mail - Remove the Bee Bees from my address.
Wayne B
<ewke...@triad.brrb.com> wrote:
[snip]
># tropical gulfstream storms. What's wrong with this picture?
>
>Absolutely nothing. Neither of these boats were marginal on fuel
>until they trusted Sea Tow to honor their contract and ensuing
>telephonic assurances of help.
>
Eugene, you're entitled to your opinion of course but the fact that
the so called buddy boat ran out of fuel while performing his buddy
function is evidence enough to me that fuel was marginal. Also,
let's not forget that Sea Tow Bahamas was in fact the closest at the
time of the first call. What if you were 5 miles from the Bahamas and
90 miles from Florida. Would you still expect Florida to come out for
you?
Le Grand Poobah
Just to follow up on this - there has been some speculation that the
contractor might have been holding out for salvage rights.
There are three elements to a claim for salvage:
The vessel must have been in peril (this is liberally construed by the
courts, i.e. the danger need neither be imminent nor actual).
The vessel must have been salved (no cure- no pay).
The assistance must be voluntary (i.e. not subject to a prior contract
or an existing duty).
All three elements must be proved. Failure to prove any one element
renders a claim moot.
In regard to this situation, it appears that the contractor could not
succeed on the third element. Indeed, it appears that the contractor
failed in his duty to provide services contracted for and would
therefore be liable for services rendered in place of the orginal
contractors obligation if provided for under the terms of the
contract.
Personally, I would bill the contractor for the original tow by the
first vessel, including time, laber, and materials (not just ask for
the bill to be waived.) This contractor clearly advertises "no dollar,
distance or time limits." Absent a specific clause in the contract
regarding specification as to the determination of the above limits,
the courts generally look to the ordinary practice of the industry
as well as the particular facts of the case.
My personal suggestion is to deal directly with the national
contracting organization (always being polite, but being very direct
about what the problem was and exactly what redress is desired),
and avoid any further contact with the original contracting agency.
Clearly their performance will continue to be unsatisfactory.
Personally, wouldn't want to be them as a defendant in court.
OTOH - it ain't enough money to go to court about.
Bad publicity it a powerful tool. Fax a copy of your story to the
company president. I think your friend is due some consideration for
performing the duties that would have been charged by the contractor.
You may be due some consideration for your inconvenience. Otherrwise,
you just keep stelling your story - like with handouts at the next
local boat show - and anywhere the local contractor advertises.
Personally - I hope you folks work this one out. I suspect this local
contractor is suffering under the current depression. They are likely
paid a fixed fee no matter the distance or cost, although I don't know
this to be a fact. In any case, your issue is with the contracting
organization, not the local subcontractor.
John...
Gould 0738
companies becomes critically apparent.
One type of company, with Sea Tow as a prime example, is simply in the towing
and towing insurance business. AFAIK, they do not offer hull insurance of any
kind and
they are therefore in a position to try to milk the hull insurance company if
and when they can. (recommending phony repairs at an inflated price, etc)
The other type of company, with Boat US as a prime example, is quite frequently
insuring the hull as well as the tow. It seems they would have a greater
motivation to respond quickly, to preserve the vessel from loss. There is not
much chance that they will conduct business in a manner calculated to screw
themselves.
Assuming the tale is true as related:
The shady SeaTow operators in FLA and the Bahamas seem to have had the same
modus operandi:
leave the poor sucka out there until he panics and will sign anything...or
until something serious happens to the boat that will need to be "repaired" at
the sweetheart yard at the end of the tow.
$700 for ten gallons of gas, delivered as an incidental item when (finally)
performing contracted towing services for an insured as per the policy? That
would be high, but somewhat defensible if the tow boat ran out *just* to
deliver the gasoline. In this
situation, it's profiteering bordering on theft.
Again, if true as related:
What a total screw-up.
Y'oughta be ashamed, Sea Tow.
-But just think of all the great "ed" the boaters are getting from this, Les.
:-)
Jim Donohue
Watch the exact contract language on this one. I believe the contract
defines the area in which the service will be provided and then provides a
flat payment if the service is provided outside that area. They have always
had the soft vs.hard grounding clause that enables a charge for salvage if
one boat cannot free the ground boat in 15 minutes.
I think it probable they work working toward a salvage claim.
Jim
"Le Grand Poobah" <sum...@sumwhar.org> wrote in message
news:pktrdukto0qkksdjo...@4ax.com...
David Smalley
>
> See the following link:
>
> http://www.floridasportsman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/004249.html
>
> For a real potential solution to this kind of mess.
>
> I have the ability to put a Congressional Petition together to make this
> happen, and am seriously considering doing exactly that.
Do it and I offer any help I can.
K. Smith
Thanks Eugene, I just thought there might some specific reason
transferring petrol at sea is a big no no (if so I don't know about
it......yet), clearly there are safety considerations, as there always is
with petrol.
I agree getting it out of the broken boat is a bit of an ask,
syphoning is out;-). I suppose your emergency pump setup is well worth
the effort, even an outboard bulb type hose might be OK in a real
"situation", along with at least one container & funnel etc. It would be
more than frustrating to be in their position, with both stopped, one for
lack of fuel, knowing there's heaps of the stuff 1/2" under the floor.
Thanks again,
K
> K, I suspect there just wasn't any way.......
>
> I just bought a cheap plastic tool box and on the inside, mounted an
> electric pump, a fuel fitting appropriate to my engine, and
> associated hoses and wiring. I can use large alligator clips to
> provide power and prime my system or pump fuel from my tanks through
> my filters to another boat.
>
> Without this little home made doo-dah, I can only guess that with a
> single outboard setup, it would be quite difficult, if not impossible
> task.....
>
> On Sun, 12 May 2002 11:16:22 +1000, "K. Smith" <ksm...@tpg.com.au>
> pontificated:
>
> # Ed McManus wrote:
> #
> # > --
> # > "Wayne B" <Way...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> # > news:k9ardukee72ufpdii...@4ax.com...
> # > > It's easy enough to relate to this story and be sympathetic.
> Most of
> # > > us who have been boating for a long time have needed help at one
> time
> # > > or another, and have been glad to get it. Most of us have also
> paid
> # > > more than we would have like for marine services at some time,
> maybe
> # > > most of the time. In the grand scale of things however this
> story
> # > > actually has a reasonably happy ending.
> # > >
> # > > Let's look at the flip side: Two single engine open outboard
> boats
> # > > more than 45 miles out in the ocean, marginal fuel supplies, in
> a
> # > > foreign country and/or international water, constant potential
> for
> # > > tropical gulfstream storms. What's wrong with this picture?
> # >
> # > Other than the "buddy boat" not having an adequate fuel supply, if
> the
> # > weather is fine and the boats are equipped for a Gulfstream
> crossing,
> # > nothing is wrong here.
> # >
> #
> # I'm still interested as to why the broken boat couldn't give
> fuel to
> # the buddy boat???? indeed I would have thought that might have been
> part of
> # the buddy plan all along??? Is it just too dangerous??? too hard to
> # organise or what.?? We on occasions have transferred diesel from
> drums into
> # the tanks at sea, even when not dead calm, although clearly petrol
> is
> # potentially a different matter I accept.
> #
> # >
> # > > If I
> # > > were a rescue boat called in to help, would I want to be well
> # > > compensated for my expenses, trouble and risk ? You bet.
> # >
> # > And they are. That's why I'm paying him $100 year.
> # >
> # > > What are
> # > > the limits of coverage in the SeaTow contract? It's pretty
> clear to
> # > > me that this situation is well above and well beyond the normal
> SeaTow
> # > > "rescue".
> # >
> # > Although the writter doesn't say, Sea Tow does offer coverage for
> the
> # > Bahamas.
> # > If I break down half way to Bimini, I darn well expect them to
> come and
> # > get me.
> # >
> # > > And is insurance supposed to cover the uninsured good
> # > > samaritan? I had SeaTow coverage at one time and there was no
> mention
> # > > of buddy boats in my contract.
> # >
> # > Buddy Boats not included.
> #
> # I'm not familiar with the system you have there but here anyway
> the
> # franchisee gets paid & very well paid to perform whatever on behalf
> of the
> # insurer. So why the reluctance to come out??? it's money for jam. It
> seems
> # not only wouldn't the obvious bloke come out, but he wouldn't
> actually
> # declare he wouldn't, pretended it all might just go away??
> unexpected
> # change in the weather & it very well might have!!
> #
> # K
> #
> # >
> # >
> # > To Mail; replace invalid with com
RGrew176
> I'm still interested as to why the broken boat couldn't give fuel to
>the buddy boat???? indeed I would have thought that might have been part of
>the buddy plan all along??? Is it just too dangerous??? too hard to
>organise or what.??
According to the person who's boat broke down he did have a siphon hose onboard
with which to transfer fuel to the buddy boat but the hose was 2' to short to
work. He states he will remedy that problem so next time the hose will be long
enough.
There is supposed to be a meeting tomorrow between SeaTow and the towee.
Hopefully he will post more info and if so I will post it here.
BTW I have Boat US towing insurance. Hope I never need it but it does provide
some peace of mind.
K. Smith
> In article <3CDDC266...@tpg.com.au>, K. Smith <ksm...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > I'm not familiar with the system you have there but here anyway the
> >franchisee gets paid & very well paid to perform whatever on behalf of the
> >insurer. So why the reluctance to come out??? it's money for jam. It seems
> >not only wouldn't the obvious bloke come out, but he wouldn't actually
> >declare he wouldn't, pretended it all might just go away?? unexpected
> >change in the weather & it very well might have!!
> >
> >K
>
> Better go look into how SeaTow franchisees get paid.
As I said Karl I'm not familiar with your system but I'd be surprised if it's
all that different. We have "similar" laws to you as does;...... well mostly
everywhere ;-)
e.g. A commercial boat repair place might have a tow vessel for local towing
around the marina or a few miles offshore (inshore) & a marina manager (driver) on
duty or whatever. That boat if used "commercially", if over a certain length, in a
particular class of waters, for a certain number of persons, to do a certain
class of commercial activity (commercial towing vessel is much more onerous than
say a commercial fisherman), will need to be in what we call survey, you seem to
call it documented (the equipment & even sometimes the boat's construction are
mandated). It's not just "any old boat" they can grab to go & do a "commercial
tow" 44 miles offshore. To have a boat sitting around in that sort of full open
offshore survey would be a big deal, lots of life rafts, min. number of crew, etc,
etc, maybe even the towing capacity would be regulated (correctly I say some of
these people are idiots of the first order) so a certain tow boat might be able to
tow the 23 ftr offshore but not your 45 ftr, inshore might be a totally different
set of rules (usually is) etc etc .
Equally, again boat length, the class of waters being operated in & class of
commercial activity undertaken are relevant, but the driver's qualifications need
to be at a certain level. Here under 12 mtrs means at least a coxswains ticket to
operate commercially & over 12 mtrs you'd need a masters 5, & 44 miles offshore
means either would need to be further "endorsed" for open waters offshore work.
The marine business is pretty cut throat & I can assure you anyone making
money out of doing commercial work, like commercial for money tows, had better
have the tow boat documents all tickety boo & driven by someone also with the
right tickety boos, or they'll get dobbed in a flash by a jealous commercial
competitor.
So here anyway "they say" they get around all this just by the way they
organise it, it's seemingly accepted too; but I always wonder what will happen the
day there's body bags lined up on some remote beach. The contract you're looking
at, if like here will likely be a weird affair purporting to say they're not a
"full" commercial marine tow operation but more like an organiser of a collective
of helpful good samaritans. The trouble is those "samaritans" often just don't
obey the law.
The original bloke, the one who wouldn't come out not no how ??? again I ask
why not??? it was flat calm, they were going to get paid by someone, yes ?? it was
an interesting potentially money for jam job yet it seemed to me they were
desperate for an "excuse". The real "excuse" might be (NB "might be" just my
opinion asking the question;-)) that they've set themselves up as sea tow
franchisees but don't have the wherewithal to perform the tasks?? the boat if in
survey (documented) at all, was it only for a certain number of miles offshore
(inshore)?? & the available or maybe the only driver doesn't hold a ticket
sufficient to go commercial tow working 44 miles offshore??. Again I better stress
I don't know, this is only a suggestion as to "why" nothing more, they might be a
full on commercial marine tow operation, that just had a bad day.
If you're genuine about having a look at these people I'd suggest you also
examine just who & how they say they've organised the supply of these prepaid
commercial marine services. They're taking people's money "in advance" to maybe
supply what??? a commercial tow??? they better have a properly qualified
"commercial" tow in short notice prospect. I don't know maybe they do have it so
organised, but if you find they haven't, then I'd suggest there's at least a
prospect they're taking money on a false deception. Again I wouldn't suggest
they're just an insurance Co, not actually responsible for the supply of the
service, because guess what?? here anyway they usually say they're not!!! Again
chancers purporting to be insurance Cos are subject to regulations, prudential
requirements, audits etc. It's an interesting subject, that here anyway I say will
all come unglued the day one of their Dad's army "nudge nudge wink wink, it's not
really a full commercial tow" goes seriously wrong, they'll blame everybody but
themselves.
My view is this bloke shouldn't be asking for just the ripoff fuel money he
should be knocking sea tow up for taking money for a service that they plainly
didn't deliver as promised & I personally have doubts was ever "legally"
available, to be delivered by seatow.
Best regards,
K
>
>
> Hint: Its NOT the same way TowBoat/US does it, where the tower submits an
> invoice to the home office and gets paid as if you were a cash customer.
>
> I KNOW how TowBoat/US does it, because I've used their service and got a
> COPY of the invoice in the mail a few days later showing that they had
> paid, how much, and for what.
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
> http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective Consulting
> http://childrens-justice.org SIGN THE UPREPA PETITION TODAY
Harry Krause
> In article <3CDEDE60...@bellsouth.net>,
>
> The question is how to word the petition so that it (1) solves the
> problem, and (2) doesn't create more (assuming it gets enacted)
>
> That's why the discussion over on FS.
>
> Hopefully, my desired and expressed intent - to discuss the finer points
> and refine it - will lead to something I can put up as a petition in the
> near future.
>
> --
I doubt your well-known tactical nuclear approach to "problem-solving"
will see the light of day in any legislation that is passable and
enforceable. Perhaps you might find someone a bit more rational to
handle the task.
David Smalley
Floyd
>
adrift. SeaTow then lets him drift for five hours and then approaches him
(without any other help or witness around) with the "salvage notification",
and can now back up the claim of peril (salvage)since he would otherwise be
on his way to bermuda. I've heard enough of this type of operator. Scott
himself relays a story of it happenning in that same area, and getting an
extra $2,000 bill for unusual conditions.
Duane
> Duane,
>
> What the heack is that supposed to mean?
> When you sign up for SeaTow, BoatUS or AAA, you are paying for a
> promise for service. Or was that just some kind of Clint Eastwoody
> statement?
>
mention it........................
Actually,
With some franchises you are paying for a "promise" that the tower will show
up.
example, If I join a towing service, and they take half my money and give it
to the international end, and half to the local (your service area) tower,
and the tower now has to tow my boat and at no additional cost to me or NO
ADDITIONAL remuneration to the tower, will he show up as "PROMISED"?
Or, if "all" of my membership $$$ goes to the national towing organization,
and I now need a tow, and the tower gets compensated to tow me at the
prevailing hourly rate (by the towing organization), providing me with a
"SERVICE" is in his/her best interest.
With some outfits your a customer to the towing companies when you sign up,
and they welcome your business, with others you are liability, and they
would rather tow somebody who is not a member and collect the cash and or
credit cards from the broken down boater.
When you look for a towing service, you have to ask questions, as to
service, promise to show up (not likely with some, when 2-3 boaters are
broken down at the same time, and 2 are not members).
Also, what is the coverage time frame, 24/7/365? Or only April to November?
Also, will they tow you back to "YOUR" dock while the tower is being
compensated hourly (120-200 per hour)?
Or, will they tow you to the nearest safe port, and leave you on your own to
get back to your home dock?
Also ask how many towboats the franchiser has, where are they located, is
coverage seamless in your boating area?
In New Jersey, coverage is seamless with some organizations and not with
others.
Duane
Duane
with sea tow until confornted?
I recall following some group similar to that until I got tired of the one
sided answers and post bolcking.
Duane
Floyd
That's probably the one you're thinking of, but it isn't any secret that Les
Hall is the GTBC (grumpy tow boat captain) over there. There isn't much
descention allowed over there, and there are always "two sides to a story".
The current Sea Tow flap has been deleted from that board, pendng an
investigation and resolution or settlelment, but you can find much of the
story on the FloridaSportsman forum (in the boating section), including the
guys that have been booted off the boatered forum for expressing too much
anti-SeaTow sentiment (without the benefit of "the other side of the
story").
Jim Donohue
It can be tough here, trying to explain to others why the sexual disfunction
of Harry's mother are relevant to recreational boating. But there are
moments of redemption. Those who have been following the Sea Tow threads
should note that only here has the actual truth been allowed to run its
course. And, by the way, in a relative accurate and concise format.
THT has apparently killed the whole thing. Florida Sportsfishing has locked
the principle threads. Boaters Ed, as is it want, has killed all the
interesting stuff and is now loaded with threads demonstrating the fidelity
of their membership and awarding medals of valour to the poor jerks they
sent to be eaten alive in Florida Sportfishing. Les is, of course, now
saying nothing. Never let it be said Captain Les Hall ever admitted defeat.
Oh sure he loses all the time, but he skulks into the passages and waits for
memories to dim before reapproaching a subject.
The initial hero of our piece, the straightforward and honest reporter,
Scott, has suddenly developed lockjaw...and this after a period of time with
four principles from SeaTow. His defense is that anything he can say will
likely be mis-construed. Interesting that such a tendency for others to
interprete his remarks never occurred to him on his original expose...only
now after an exposure to SeaTow has he developed a fear of being
mis-interpreted. For those who follow the logic of this position I have
some significant properties in mid Nevada that I would like to sell you
under very special terms. And he is a lawyer....
All should watch the treatment of this subject on BoatersED - it will be
educational. Will he simply run to cover and never let the subject appear
again? Will he twist the truth to some acceptable interpretation? Has he
simply managed to threaten or buy the lawyer?
Stay tuned and see.
Jim
Harry Krause
Why would anyone read BoaterEd with its obvious and blatant commercial
censorship?
Duane
>
> That's probably the one you're thinking of, but it isn't any secret that
Les
> Hall is the GTBC (grumpy tow boat captain) over there. There isn't much
> descention allowed over there, and there are always "two sides to a
story".
That's it then, I stopped following it because the man in charge of
monitoring the "fair and open minded" discussions was neither.
Kinda like the "moral majority" the represents us in Washington, they also
are neither of what they pretend to be.
Sea Tow TowBoatUS or now West Marine's affiliation with Vessel Assist, if
your are going to plunk down your money you have to ask questions.
It is kind of amusing to go to the boat shows where all three are
represented and pit them against each other.
My choice is still join the organizing that compensates the tower each and
every time they perform a service, this way the tower has an ingrained
reason to take care of me.
Duane
Floyd
> Scott, has suddenly developed lockjaw...and this after a period of time
with
> four principles from SeaTow. His defense is that anything he can say will
> likely be mis-construed.
Actuallly, he has come back on the Florida Sportsman forum several times
today (tue) to attempt to clarify some of the obfuscation and misconstruing
that has been flaring up in spite of his woefull effort to avoid same. This
story is still developing, and don't forget that we haven't heard "the
other side of the story" as it's called by Les over on boatered. If Seatow
is to maintain their lead in the market, I'm sure they are busy concocting
an explanation that will appease and satisfy our misgivings about being
stranded in the gulfstream. Hopefully, there will be some policy
clarifications as well, especiallly those concerning the towers claim of
refusal due to "rough conditions". That caveat leaves the door wide open
for many of our excursions.
K. Smith
This has been so interesting, it seems the internet is proven again. In the
past punters couldn't tell people when they got dudded & be heard, now they
can. Like it saved many people from buying Ficht & brought OMC down, corporate
scam people need to be more careful these days.
That censored boaturd site which not only just pushed commercial spam, also
gives out blatantly defective advice & on occasions dangerously so. Again in
the past they would have got away with it, but now people can ping it, yes not
there of course (it's censored from open review/criticism) but in other places,
like here.
Great work from Jim, Karl etc etc love it!!
Best regards,
K
Dae
From what Les Hall (who I think is a VP or somthing with Sea Tow) is
saying, they will NOT tow you from the Bahamas back to the US but will
tow you to the nearest repair facility. For more detail take a look at
this thread at the BoaterEd Forum.
Here is a quote from him on that thread.
"That said, the question that arises most frequently is, "I'm in
Walker's Cay. Will you tow me back to the US?" The answer is no, you
will be towed to a repair facility. "
http://www.boatered.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25866
- Dae
=========================
Calif Bill
http://www.sport-fish-info.com/dcforum/dcpages/private/12436.html
Bill
"Floyd" <flooy...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:5FbE8.1109$9X2.67...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
Duane
"Karl Denninger" <ka...@FS.Denninger.Net> wrote in message
news:abrdsv$9g3$0...@dosa.alt.net...
> From what I understand (since I've used their card and got a copy of the
> paid invoice from the franchisee to TowBoat/US national), that would be
> TowBoat/US.
Correct, same with Vessel Assist, although not very big on the East Coast,
very sporadic coverage.
Duane
Ed McManus
"Dae" <web...@speakeasy.org> wrote in message
news:3CE1DF28...@speakeasy.org...
> Ed,
>
> From what Les Hall (who I think is a VP or somthing with Sea Tow) is
> saying, they will NOT tow you from the Bahamas back to the US but will
> tow you to the nearest repair facility. For more detail take a look at
> this thread at the BoaterEd Forum.
>
> Here is a quote from him on that thread.
>
> "That said, the question that arises most frequently is, "I'm in
> Walker's Cay. Will you tow me back to the US?" The answer is no, you
> will be towed to a repair facility. "
>
>
facility. Walker's is not one of them and the closest to my mind would be
Freeport.
Jim Donohue
whole web site about the incident. Anybody think that is going to happen?
Somebody who subscribes to boatered go ask. He follows over here I know but
he would never admit it.
Jim
K. Smith
But in my view having read some of his stuff in boaturd, he's NEVER going
to actually tell the facts if they don't go his way Jim, indeed he seems to ba
able to turn anything into a win for him in his own mind.
Was the US side boat licensed, crewed etc to go & do a commercial tow 42
miles offshore??? is that the "real" reason they refused to come out???
Do they say they do offshore tows, but fail to mention they can get the
licensed vessels/crew easier, cheaper or even at all, from the other side?? so
the tow won't be back to base???
Did they threaten or bribe the complainant in any manner ??? In other words
did they only fix him up because he had some brains & balls, whereas how many
of us meek & mild punters just get quietly shafted by his operation?? (we
deserve the earth after what you've done to us!!!)
Has the USCG chipped them about almost leaving 2 boat loads of people
disabled well offshore in the dark when they had the best part of a day to just
do what they'd already been paid to do??
In other words & again just my view, even if he purports to tell the story
it will be not reliable, because this time it will be the damage control
spruik.
Nice work from you all though, well done.
K
Jim Donohue
capable of operating well off shore. Pretty much all single screws with good
performance, lots of range and a one man crew. This particular trip
involves the gulf stream which complicates life. As a general rule you
cross it quickly or go with it. Given some wind conditions going against it
can be very trying. The main currents can exceed 5 knots. This may very
well mean it is quicker to go 45 miles with it then 25 miles against it. It
also means that sitting still you move around 5 knots.
It gets tricky if you get to the limits of the contract which SeaTow has
with its users. I would think for instance that sea tow can well claim
salvage if more than 25 miles off shore and the vessel is in "peril".
Inside 25 miles the SeaTow conttract would rule and Sea Tow could not claim
salvage. However outside of 25 miles Sea Tow is only in for a fixed sum and
could potentially charge for salvage. There is certainly precendent. Sea
Tow will pull you off a soft grounding..defined as one boat and no more than
15 minutes of towing. If it is 20 minutes then they claim it is a "hard
grounding" and they can and have charged salvage rates that might run 20 or
25% of the value of the boat. Basically if your boat is worth a lot - be
careful.
As much as I find fault with Les Hall by the way I don't think this is a Sea
Tow only problem. Virtually everybody in the business does it when they can
get away with it.
Jim
"K. Smith" <ksm...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3CE59D4E...@tpg.com.au...
Wayne B
barely pays the bills, with the real money being in salvage work.
====================================================
Floyd in Tampa
> It gets tricky if you get to the limits of the contract which SeaTow has
> with its users. I would think for instance that sea tow can well claim
> salvage if more than 25 miles off shore and the vessel is in "peril".
> Inside 25 miles the SeaTow conttract would rule and Sea Tow could not
claim
> salvage. However outside of 25 miles Sea Tow is only in for a fixed sum
and
> could potentially charge for salvage.
From the Sea Tow site: "Sea Tow provides Unlimited Service Area Towing - No
dollar, distance or time limits. The covered vessel will be towed back to
its home port, or another dock of choice at no charge. Our members don't
worry about having a towing coverage limit - because Sea Tow Provides
Unlimited Free Service Area Towing. "
I don't see on their site any mention of a 25-mi limit. Is it in the actual
contract that members get? If so, then their website promo is somewhat
deceptive, and should be clarified. And the part about towing back to the
home port, or another dock of choice: who's choice? the tower or the
towee?
thunder
Definitely not an expert, but it is my understanding that a salvor's
actions must be voluntary. If you are a member of SeaTow, he is
under contract, therefore can not claim salvage.
http://www.4seatow.com/salvage2.htm
Jim Donohue
contract says within 25 miles of shore. If you are 30 miles off shore no
contract. Same thing on a hard grounding - specifically excluded from the
contract...therefore you are not under contract if hard grounded.
There was a very interesting case when Sea Tow nailed a Florida guy with a
big expensive boat for a "hard grounding" under conditions which the guy
claimed were benign.
Jim
"thunder" <thu...@gti.net> wrote in message
news:uec3vs2...@corp.supernews.com...
Duane
> Towing boats at $150/hour may sound lucrative but I'd guess that it
> barely pays the bills, with the real money being in salvage work.
>
> ====================================================
Towing boats at 100-175 per hour (going rates around the country) pays the
bills but certainly won't make anyone "well to do" without some sort of
supplementing the income.
Salvage can be lucrative, but it doesn't happen everyday, and the salvor is
compensated on a scale. Not every salvage is awarded at 40% as some are led
to believe. Salvage awards are based on peril, dangers involved (to the
salvor) various risks, property saved (not necessarily the vessel) etc.
Towing companies are in business because boats break down, so do the
towboats, which are usually pushed to their limits.
Add to that - very few boating areas are a 12 month season. Almost every
towing service is seasonal.
Duane
Jim Donohue
*************************************************************
Areas of Service
Home Area Tows: All members have unlimited assistance towing services on the
covered vessel and may be towed by Sea Tow to the dock of their choice
within their selected home area at no charge. No time limits, distance
limits or dollar limits apply within your home area.
Other Sea Tow Area Tows: All members out of their home area will be towed by
Sea Tow to the dock or area that will most facilitate their boats repair or
transportation.
Universal Towing Coverage: In remote areas, where there is no Sea Tow
provider, Sea Tow will arrange and pay for your assistance towing the up to
$1,000 per incident, with no annual aggregate limits. You must use a Coast
Guard licensed professional tower, pay the bill and submit a copy of the
invoice to Sea Tow International for reimbursement. Unauthorized tows will
not be paid.
****************************************************************************
***
I don't know where the 25 miles comes from but I think it is the home area
as defined by Sea Tow likely in the contract fine print. It was mentioned
in one of the threads but I don't remember where.
But the message is clear. They will tow you as much as you need where ever
in your HOME AREA.
Outside your home area but in another Sea Tow area they will tow you to the
dock or area that will facilitate repair or transportation.
If no Sea Tow provider they will pay the first $1000. Note that Sea Tow
must arrange the tow. There is also no indication that Sea Tow may not
elect to use a Sea Tow boat nor that Sea Tow may not claim salvage.
Think about it. I often sail well off the US coast - As far as 1500 miles
down into the waters off Mexico. You really think Sea Tow will agree to
come get me and tow me back to San Diego for $95? Note by the way that it
is very unlikely that I would find a USCG rated Captain in that part of the
world anymore one acceptable to Sea Tow - So I may even have trouble
collecting my $1000.
Jim
"Floyd in Tampa" <Flooy...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:sFjF8.3796$%F3.131...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
Dae
The only place I've seen the 25 mile limit about Sea Tow was from your
posts. Could it be that you were confused because on the FS forum, Les
mentioned that their biggest competitor has has 25 mile limit?
- Dae
==============
Jim Donohue wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> I don't know where the 25 miles comes from but I think it is the home area
> as defined by Sea Tow likely in the contract fine print. It was mentioned
> in one of the threads but I don't remember where.
>
<snip>
Gould 0738
>
>The only place I've seen the 25 mile limit about Sea Tow was from your
>posts. Could it be that you were confused because on the FS forum, Les
>mentioned that their biggest competitor has has 25 mile li
If I had a Sea Tow policy, I'd want a much better definition of my "home area"
than just a general geographic description. A general description leaves too
many loopholes.
Good example: Let's say a NW boater bought a policy that provided towing
anywhere in "Puget Sound". In common usage, people often refer to all the
inland saltwater of Western Washington, (except
Hood Canal) as "Puget Sound".
Puget Sound is officially quite small. It's a body of water south of Pt. No.
Pt. and Possession Pt and north of East and Colvos Passages. On a rare clear
day, you can see most of Puget Sound from one vantage point or another in
Seattle.
'twould be a rude surprise to call for a tow from, say, Des Moines or Tacoma
and discover that the policy wasn't any good outside the charted boundaries of
"Puget Sound."
Some kind of a mileage description, such as "policy covers towing from any
point within x nautical miles from the tow company offices in cities a,b, and
c....."
would be more reassuring. When push comes to shove, a chart and some dividers
can arbitrate whether a boat is within the "home area" or not.
Jim Donohue
killed the thread. I am pretty sure it was 25 miles along the coast each
direction from the towers base plus 25 miles to sea. It could possibly have
been an example - but I think it was the actual area for at least some of
the operators in Fla.
If I have a chance I will try to run it down - but you can't really search
some of these groups.
Note that the Sea Tow qoute to Floyd also makes it clear the areas exist
though their dimensions are not listed.
Jim
"Dae" <web...@speakeasy.org> wrote in message
news:3CE72598...@speakeasy.org...
Jim Donohue
one. So it may well be that the SeaTow home areas are defined by some other
algorithm. Never the less they eixst and need to be taken into account.
Jim
"Dae" <web...@speakeasy.org> wrote in message
news:3CE72598...@speakeasy.org...
Floyd/Pat
> one. So it may well be that the SeaTow home areas are defined by some
other
> algorithm. Never the less they eixst and need to be taken into account.
> area
Here's the thread you might have been thinking about, with comments by Les
himself:
http://www.boatered.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25866
From what I can gather, both SeaTow and TowboatUS sell an "Unlimited"
towing policy that have a 25-mi towing limit. In my opinion the term
"unlimited" is misleading and deceptive as it it used in these online
promotions, and I think most boaters who have these policies think that they
will get a free tow if they are 35 miles out. The "unlimited" evidently
refers to the number of tows you require during the year, not to the
distance. Granted, no one could expect to be towed back from 1,000 miles
from home for an annual rate of around $100, but they could do a better job
of describing the distance limits on their websites.
Dae
that they have a 25 mile radius from the Tow Boats home port. Now the
thing about the limit with Boat US is that that is minimum. I spoke
with Jerry Cardarelli, manager of Boat US Towing Service dept via their
forum and was told that some places have much further limits. He stated
that their Tower in St Michaels, MD uses a 35 mile radius and their OC,
MD Tow boat will go out 75 miles. When I asked him where I might be get
the milage info on their individual tow operators, he stated that they
will be updating their website this year. That sold me. Jerry came
across on their forum very courtious and the info he gave was exactly
what I was looking for. That sold me on Boat US. Sea Tow having the FL
issue sure didn't help them with me even though I was originally going
to go with them because of their "Unlimited" Towing.
- Dae
Karl Denninger wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> Boat/US explicitly states that their radius of service is 25 miles.
>
> With that said, I've asked them if they will tow you back from the Bahamas.
>
> They have said "yes", but that's a verbal, not a written, commitment - and
> as such probably unenforcable.
>
> The problem here is that everyone I know of thinks that SeaTow will come get
> you 100 miles offshore - included in your membership. In fact, most of the
> people around here who buy SeaTow .vs. TowBoat/US memberships are doing so
> BECAUSE of this perceived difference!
>
> If its a FALSE difference....
>
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist
> http://www.denninger.net Cost-effective Consulting
> http://childrens-justice.org SIGN THE UPREPA PETITION TODAY
Duane
> that their Tower in St Michaels, MD uses a 35 mile radius and their OC,
> MD Tow boat will go out 75 miles.
It is actually the Ocean City New Jersey that tows from the canyons, (75
mile limits), Shamrock Towing is the operator. They have a 100' and 65'
towboat, plus a fleet of smaller ones.
Duane
Floyd/Pat
that all their guys in the Tampa area will go out to 50 miles with no
additional charge if you have the "unlimited" policy. He said "unlimited"
means...."unlimited". That made me feel better. He said the 25-mi figure
is the minimum required by their corporate agreement, but that most towers
do go furthur, and one in my area will go out to 75-mi. Your area(s) may
differ, so call them if you need to know.
Jim Donohue
complaintants are happy. See the boatered and Floridasport for the ongoing.
Certainly appears that SeaTow got caught with its hand in the cookie jar and
is not about to admit it. Les has suddenly developed Clintonitis about his
committments.
Jim
"RGrew176" <rgre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020510192523...@mb-cd.aol.com...
> May 9th, 2002
> Sea Tow International
> 1560 Youngs Avenue
> Southold NY 11971
>
> Sea Tow Services Treasure Coast, Inc.
> P.O. Box 1220
> Port Salerno FL 34992
>
> Re: Towing Service May 8th 2002
>
> Dear Sirs:
>
> I am writing this letter in regards to an incident that occurred
Wednesday, May
> 8th, 2002, off the coast of South Florida. I am a member of Sea Tow and
have
> been since 1999.
>
> On May 4th, 2002, I left Florida in my vessel for a vacation in the
Bahamas. I
> crossed without incident and arrived in Walkers Cay, North Abaco, Bahamas.
My
> vessel is a 23 Dusky Walkaround model. I had a buddy boat that made the
> crossing at the same time, a 23 Mako Walkaround owned by John Arnold.
>
> Both vessels are maintained to the highest of standards and outfitted with
full
> USCG gear, including a 406 MHZ EPIRB with internal GPS that I carry
onboard.
> The vacation was pleasurable until our attempted return to the United
States.
>
> On May 8th, 2002, while returning to Florida, my vessel became disabled
with an
> engine malfunction. I attempted repairs to no avail. At this point my
vessel
> was 38 NM from West End, Grand Bahama Island, and 44 NM from the Saint
Lucie
> Inlet in Stuart Florida. All crew on both vessels were fine, except for
the
> stress of my vessel being crippled. I told all hands not to worry as I am
a
> member of Sea Tow and all that was necessary was to make contact with Sea
Tow
> and the "Road Service at Sea" would come to the rescue. Nothing could have
> been farther from the truth.
>
> The sea conditions at the time were 1-3 foot seas (if that) with a
moderate 10
> knot South East wind. Based on our position and the prevailing weather,
the
> decision was made to begin towing my vessel towards Florida. After
> approximately 45 minutes, a vessel with the call sign "Dream Too" made
> contact with us and relayed our information to Sea Tow West End/Freeport.
What
> happened next was almost beyond disbelief.
>
> Sea Tow West End/Freeport advised against us heading for Florida. Their
> recommendation was that the vessel given assistance should set my vessel
free
> and they would be on-scene in approximately 5 hours to tow my vessel to
West
> End. Again, I repeated that I was 'on the hump' distance-wise between West
> End and Saint Lucie Inlet. I requested that Sea Tow West End/Freeport call
Sea
> Tow Treasure Coast to dispatch a vessel to my position to tow my vessel to
Fort
> Pierce. I did so based on experience. Approximately two years ago another
> vessel from Fort Pierce was making the exact run I was currently on and
broke
> down on Matanilla Shoal, which is 50 NM from Fort Pierce. Sea Tow
dispatched a
> vessel to them and returned them to Fort Pierce.
>
> After several long minutes waiting for an answer, I was again informed
that I
> should turn towards West End. My buddy boat was just beginning to run
short on
> fuel. I again REPEATED the information that I was now less than 44 NM from
> Saint Lucie Inlet, a member of Sea Tow, and I was in need of assistance.
> Silence on the part of Sea Tow. Sea Tow Treasure Coast then informed us
via Sea
> Tow West End/Freeport that "gulf stream conditions would not allow them to
> safely make the crossing to our location." I am not sure where Sea Tow
> Treasure Coast gets their information, but as I informed the Coast Guard,
if
> the conditions were any better, I could have water skied to Florida. I was
> beyond disbelief at Sea Tow Treasure Coasts lack of assistance.
>
> It was then reported to me that if I continued on my course, that once we
were
> West of the Gulf Stream Sea Tow would be available to assist. Even though
it
> was determined that my buddy boat would not have the fuel necessary to
make it
> all the way if towing a load, we determined that if Sea Tow met us on the
> 'other side' of the Gulf Stream, I would be towed by Sea Tow Treasure
> Coast, allowing my buddy boat to continue on to Florida unhindered and
with
> enough fuel to make it all the way. I was told to alter my course to Saint
> Lucie Inlet to further shorten the distance to land fall. I complied with
the
> request.
>
> Hours ticked away. Thirty miles from Saint Lucie Inlet I began hailing Sea
Tow
> for assistance. I was answered by Sea Tow Fort Lauderdale and I informed
them
> of my situation and requested they contact Sea Tow Treasure Coast and
inform
> them, once again, that I was a member of Sea Tow, I was in need of
assistance,
> and I was only 30 NM from Florida. I gave my specific position. Silence on
the
> part of Sea Tow Treasure Coast. It was now late in the day, I was past due
and
> my parents (who are also Sea Tow members) with whom I left a float plan
were
> beginning to worry.
>
> I repeatedly made attempts to contact Sea Tow Treasure Coast to no avail.
The
> United Stated Coast Guard then intervened. I was contacted by Coast Guard
> Station Lake Worth and asked why I was continually attempting to hail Sea
Tow.
> I fully informed them of the situation and position. Thankfully the Coast
Guard
> stated they would contact Sea Tow. I was asked if there was any distress.
I
> told the Coast Guard there wouldn't be as long as Sea Tow did it's job for
> a Sea Tow member and honor the contract by coming to my aid and towing me
to
> port.
>
> To my complete disbelief, silence on the part of Sea Tow Treasure Coast.
Hours
> passed again and thankfully, when I was within 20 NM of land, I obtained
cell
> phone coverage and made the call to my parents and informed them of the
> situation. My mother then called Sea Tow Treasure Coast directly. She was
met
> by a rude, offensive person who stated that they were aware of the
situation
> since that morning, and that I should not have left West End with a broken
down
> engine under tow. My mother was further informed by this rude person that
I was
> 25 NM from land which my mother knew was completely false as I had relayed
my
> position to her and she knew for certain that I was exactly 20 NM from
land.
> Further, I was no where near West End, and had left from Walkers Cay.
>
> After a brief exchange my mother was informed that a Sea Tow vessel would
be
> immediately dispatched to my position and I wold be home before nightfall.
Once
> again completely false. I was contacted by Coast Guard Lake Worth and
informed
> that Sea Tow was in-route and that I was to change course and head for
Fort
> Pierce Inlet as Sea Tow was leaving from Fort Pierce and would intercept.
At
> that point, I was definite my buddy boat would run out of fuel because of
the
> course change but I complied as Sea Tow assured me, my mother, and the
United
> Stated Coast Guard that they were coming to assist. Again, completely
false.
>
> I came within 19 NM of Fort Pierce Inlet and my buddy boat ran out of
fuel. I
> radioed the Coast Guard and stated my position and that both vessels were
now
> dead in the water and please confirm that Sea Tow was in-route to assist.
Once
> again to my complete disbelief Sea Tow had yet to even dispatch a boat.
Sea Tow
> finally dispatched a boat that took an hour to reach us. Had Sea Tow
Treasure
> Coast dispatched a vessel when first contacted, my buddy boat would not
have
> run out of fuel, I would have been towed to port by Sea Tow, and would
have
> arrived hours earlier.
>
> It is now 7:00 p.m. Another surprise was waiting. I then discovered that
my
> buddy boat was not a member of Sea Tow and they were being charged $705.00
for
> the delivery of ten gallons of gas. I was completely in shock at this
point.
> Had Sea Tow Treasure Coast done its job and come to my assistance when I
was 30
> NM from shore, my buddy boat would have never run out of fuel. Sea Tow
Treasure
> Coast breached the contract I had with Sea Tow International and acted in
bad
> faith. It is clear that both vessels were being 'set-up' by Sea Tow
> Treasure Coast to become completely disabled. Via the Internet, my mother
> pulled up the NOAA weather information and it is documented that sea
conditions
> during the entire day were no higher than 3 feet, even in the Gulf Stream.
With
> reckless disregard as to the safety of both vessels, Sea Tow Treasure
Coast
> falsely reported that conditions were unsafe for them to render
assistance,
> falsely reported they were in-route, and completely failed to come to a
> member's assistance.
>
>
> To give you an idea of the sea state, my buddy boat, with a mere ½ inch
tow
> line, successfully pulled my vessel (which when fully loaded weighs over
4,500
> pounds) over 35 NM at an average speed of 7.5 knots, including through the
Gulf
> Stream. In addition, once Sea Tow finally arrived at my position (19NM off
Fort
> Pierce) I was towed in at a speed of 22 Knots, a feat which would be
impossible
> in what Sea Tow claimed were 'unsafe seas.' I have documented the sea
state
> on both video camera and regular film.
>
> Now I will inform you as to the purpose of this letter. I cannot express
in
> words the complete dissatisfaction I have with Sea Tow. The willful
disregard
> to come to the aid of a member is in bad faith, in breach of contract, and
is
> grossly negligent. Demand is hereby made that you waive the $705.00 fee
charged
> to the vessel 'Stress Management' owned by Dr. John Arnold. Failure to do
> so will leave no alternative but to seek redress in court. Please be
advised
> that if suit becomes necessary, all costs, attorney's fees, and damages
will
> be sought against Sea Tow International and Sea Tow Treasure Coast, Inc.
>
> If I do not hear a response within two (2) business days of receipt of
this
> letter, I will go forward with litigation. Please govern yourself
accordingly.
> If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact this office.
>
> Very Truly Yours,
>
> Scott G. Ryals, Esq.
>
>
>
Gary S. Colecchio
wrote:
>As this sordid tale plays out, one major difference between certain types of
>companies becomes critically apparent.
>
>One type of company, with Sea Tow as a prime example, is simply in the towing
>and towing insurance business. AFAIK, they do not offer hull insurance of any
>kind and
>they are therefore in a position to try to milk the hull insurance company if
>and when they can. (recommending phony repairs at an inflated price, etc)
>
>The other type of company, with Boat US as a prime example, is quite frequently
>insuring the hull as well as the tow. It seems they would have a greater
>motivation to respond quickly, to preserve the vessel from loss. There is not
>much chance that they will conduct business in a manner calculated to screw
>themselves.
>
>Assuming the tale is true as related:
>The shady SeaTow operators in FLA and the Bahamas seem to have had the same
>modus operandi:
>
>leave the poor sucka out there until he panics and will sign anything...or
>until something serious happens to the boat that will need to be "repaired" at
>the sweetheart yard at the end of the tow.
>
>$700 for ten gallons of gas, delivered as an incidental item when (finally)
>performing contracted towing services for an insured as per the policy? That
>would be high, but somewhat defensible if the tow boat ran out *just* to
>deliver the gasoline. In this
>situation, it's profiteering bordering on theft.
>
>Again, if true as related:
>
>What a total screw-up.
>
>Y'oughta be ashamed, Sea Tow.
>-But just think of all the great "ed" the boaters are getting from this, Les.
>:-)
Ir's Florida Sportsman's on line forum :
http://www.floridasportsman.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true
We have deleted most of the threads since the issue is now resolved.
To the satysfacton of both parties, if not the readership who
thouroughly enjoyed the contraversy for it's entertainment value.
Captain Gary S. Colecchio
Silver Dawn Charters
Bonita Beach
"Lie? Me? Never! No, no, no. The truth is far too much fun!"
- Captain Hook
Vaughn Buck
"Jim Donohue" <jim_d...@computer.org> wrote in message
news:uefnco8...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> If I have a chance I will try to run it down - but you can't really search
> some of these groups.
>
Sure you can, Googles Group.
Jim Donohue
Floridasportsman
"Vaughn Buck" <sail...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uf4lvog...@corp.supernews.com...