OT: A Chink in the unPatriotic Act Armor
Harry Krause
Jan 26, 2:52 PM (ET)
By LINDA DEUTSCH
LOS ANGELES (AP) - A federal judge has declared unconstitutional a
portion of the USA Patriot Act that bars giving expert advice or
assistance to groups designated foreign terrorist organizations.
The ruling marks the first court decision to declare a part of the
post-Sept. 11 anti-terrorism statute unconstitutional, said David Cole,
a Georgetown University law professor who argued the case on behalf of
the Humanitarian Law Project.
In a ruling handed down late Friday and made available Monday, U.S.
District Judge Audrey Collins said the ban on providing "expert advice
or assistance" is impermissibly vague, in violation of the First and
Fifth Amendments.
John Tyler, the Justice Department attorney who argued the case, had no
comment and referred calls to the department press office in Washington.
A message left there was not immediately returned.
The case before the court involved five groups and two U.S. citizens
seeking to provide support for lawful, nonviolent activities on behalf
of Kurdish refugees in Turkey.
The Humanitarian Law Project, which brought the lawsuit, said the
plaintiffs were threatened with 15 years in prison if they advised
groups on seeking a peaceful resolution of the Kurds' campaign for
self-determination in Turkey.
The judge's ruling said the law, as written, does not differentiate
between impermissible advice on violence and encouraging the use of
peaceful, nonviolent means to achieve goals.
"The USA Patriot Act places no limitation on the type of expert advice
and assistance which is prohibited and instead bans the provision of all
expert advice and assistance regardless of its nature," the judge said.
Cole declared the ruling "a victory for everyone who believes the war on
terrorism ought to be fought consistent with constitutional principles."
--
Email sent to piedty...@yahoo.com is never read.
NOYB
> In a ruling handed down late Friday and made available Monday, U.S.
> District Judge Audrey Collins said
A liberal Clinton appointee...from a lowly District Court.
Harry Krause
Yes, well, we need some judges with backbone enough to save our
democracy from the Republican neofascists.
John H
This'll probably piss off the 98 Senators who voted for the act.
John H
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!
Harry Krause
You mean, the ones who were lied to by the Bush Administration about
virtually every aspect of who was involved in 9-11? Those senators?
Calif Bill
"Harry Krause" <piedty...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bv4gij$o7qb5$2...@ID-21096.news.uni-berlin.de...
Proof of your accusation! Or this is just Polemic mutterings. Or are you
stating all the Senators are that stupid?
As to the ruling, was a strange ruling. Said that the act did not allow for
non-violence counseling. Was in reference to allowing people to teach
non-violence protesting to Kurdish groups in Turkey. Seems as if the law
was actually fairly good in this regard. Can not counsel extremists.
Christopher Robin
> Part of Patriot Act Ruled Unconstitutional
Hey Hairball, kill the spam, I want to hear more about that union
busting japanese outboard of yours.
Harry Krause
> "Harry Krause" <piedty...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bv4gij$o7qb5$2...@ID-21096.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> John H wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:48:25 GMT, "NOYB" <NO...@NOYB.COM> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> In a ruling handed down late Friday and made available Monday, U.S.
>> >>> District Judge Audrey Collins said
>> >>
>> >>A liberal Clinton appointee...from a lowly District Court.
>> >>
>> > This'll probably piss off the 98 Senators who voted for the act.
>> >
>> > John H
>> >
>> > On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
>> > on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!
>>
>> You mean, the ones who were lied to by the Bush Administration about
>> virtually every aspect of who was involved in 9-11? Those senators?
>>
>> --
>> Email sent to piedty...@yahoo.com is never read.
>
> Proof of your accusation! Or this is just Polemic mutterings. Or are you
> stating all the Senators are that stupid?
Proof? The Bush misAdministration has been lying about 9-11 since before
it happened, and has been lying about Iraq and Afghanistan ever since.
Every stated reason for invading Iraq was fraudulent.
basskisser
Hey, idiot, Yamaha has plants in the U.S. and they use organized labor.
NOYB
"basskisser" <atl_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c74f111.04012...@posting.google.com...
Hey, idiot...Yamaha Outboards aren't made in the U.S. Let's see you spin
this one. LOL.
"Yamaha outboard motors are presently manufactured at three companies,
Yamaha Marine Co., Ltd. (former Sanshin Industries Co., Ltd.; Location:
Hamamatsu City, Shizuoka Pref., Japan; President: Shinya Sato), Kumamoto
Products Co., Ltd. (Location: Yashiro City, Kumamoto Pref., Japan;
President: Yoshinori Doi) and MBK Industrie (Location: San Quentin, France;
President: Hiroyuki Yanagi), and the combined production level of these
facilities totals about 320,000 units annually. "
http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/news/2003-12-24/outboard-e.html
Doug Kanter
news:tngb10ldase7f9328...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:48:25 GMT, "NOYB" <NO...@NOYB.COM> wrote:
>
> >
> >> In a ruling handed down late Friday and made available Monday, U.S.
> >> District Judge Audrey Collins said
> >
> >A liberal Clinton appointee...from a lowly District Court.
> >
> This'll probably piss off the 98 Senators who voted for the act.
I'll finish that last sentence for you:
...in a state of panic, and in an attempt to do anything, short of give away
free oral sex, to make their constituents think they'd done
something...anything constructive since being elected.
Calif Bill
Yes, PROOF! Otherwise, is just noise from your keyboard.
John H
Well, that's quite a compliment!
Doug Kanter
For a congressman, it most certainly is!
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But,
I repeat myself". -Mark Twain
John H
<ancien...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"John H" <jherring$$@$$cox**.net> wrote in message
>news:qtkd1098mo5kjqm14...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:23:12 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>> <ancien...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"John H" <jherring$$@$$cox**.net> wrote in message
>> >news:tngb10ldase7f9328...@4ax.com...
>> >> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:48:25 GMT, "NOYB" <NO...@NOYB.COM> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> In a ruling handed down late Friday and made available Monday, U.S.
>> >> >> District Judge Audrey Collins said
>> >> >
>> >> >A liberal Clinton appointee...from a lowly District Court.
>> >> >
>> >> This'll probably piss off the 98 Senators who voted for the act.
>> >
>> >I'll finish that last sentence for you:
>> >
>> >...in a state of panic, and in an attempt to do anything, short of give
>away
>> >free oral sex, to make their constituents think they'd done
>> >something...anything constructive since being elected.
>> >
>>
>> Well, that's quite a compliment!
>
>For a congressman, it most certainly is!
>"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But,
>I repeat myself". -Mark Twain
>
Almost fell out of my chair from LOLing so much. That was good!
basskisser
> "Harry Krause" <piedty...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bv4gij$o7qb5$2...@ID-21096.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > John H wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:48:25 GMT, "NOYB" <NO...@NOYB.COM> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>> In a ruling handed down late Friday and made available Monday, U.S.
> > >>> District Judge Audrey Collins said
> > >>
> > >>A liberal Clinton appointee...from a lowly District Court.
> > >>
> > > This'll probably piss off the 98 Senators who voted for the act.
> > >
> > > John H
> > >
> > > On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
> > > on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!
> >
> > You mean, the ones who were lied to by the Bush Administration about
> > virtually every aspect of who was involved in 9-11? Those senators?
> >
> > --
> > Email sent to piedty...@yahoo.com is never read.
>
> Proof of your accusation! Or this is just Polemic mutterings. Or are you
> stating all the Senators are that stupid?
I think that because the Republicans, as we speak, are trying to limit
the investigation, would lead one to think that they knew more than
they are letting on. IF the GOP lead congress doesn't want to cover
anything up, then why try to limit the investigation?
Doug Kanter
If Twain were around today, he'd be one of those people the president would
never point to for questions during news conferences.
NOYB
Still think Yamaha outboards are made in the US with union labor? LOL!
basskisser
BWAAAHAAAAA!! You ARE an idiot!!! It is *Yamaha Motors, Inc. U.S.A.!!!
Of COURSE Yamaha Ltd. doesn't have factories in the U.S.!!
AND, I never said anything about outboards. I said Yamaha has plants
in the U.S., and uses organized labor. Learn to read.
C&C Manufacturing, wholly owned and operated by Yamaha, U.S.A. in
Panama City, FL
Yamaha Motor Corporation located in Cypress, CA
Yamaha Motor Corporation U.S.A - Marine Group, Kennesaw, GA
Yamaha Motor Corporation U.S.A. - manufacturing facility, Newnan GA
Tennesee Watercraft, wholly owned subsidiary, in Tenn.
So, you see, I am correct. I never, ever said anything about
specifically outboards. If you can read, then you know, I said "Yamaha
has factories in the U.S....."
NOYB
> I never, ever said anything about
> specifically outboards. If you can read, then you know, I said "Yamaha
> has factories in the U.S....."
Oh yeah...I forgot. You don't know how to follow a thread. Here's a
refresher:
1) Christopher said he wanted to hear about Harry's "union busting japanese
outboard". (notice there was no mention of the brand)
2) You said "Yamaha has plants in the U.S. and they use organized labor".
(this is where your ADD was acting up. The only reason you mentioned Yamaha
was because you knew Harry has a Yamaha outboard. So we agree, that the
thread was about Yamaha *outboards*).
3) I told you Yamaha *outboards* weren't made in the U.S.
If you knew how to follow a thread, you'd have known it was about outboard
motors. You made a nice attempt at spinning it to be about Yamaha Motor
Corp, USA...but it's still about *outboard* motors. Harry doesn't own a
"Yamaha Motor Corp, USA product made in the states"... he owns a Yamaha
*outboard* made in either France or Japan.
basskisser
Harry owns an outboard that was made from a company that has
distribution centers all across the U.S. These distribution centers
use organized labor. Please show where *I* said "Yamaha outboards" to
start with.
basskisser
> basskisser,
> Still think Yamaha outboards are made in the US with union labor? LOL!
Please show where I said Yamaha outboards are made in the U.S. with
union labor.
I wouldn't think you've ever heard of any other facet of the process
that starts as a concept, and ends up on someone's boat, huh? What a
narrow minded ninny you are!! There are many, many Yamaha distribution
points IN THE U.S. for Yamaha outboards. They are unionized. There are
numerous parts distribution facilities in the U.S. that Yamaha
owns...all union workforce. The list goes on and on, but alas, you are
too closed minded to understand the
manufacture/distribution/parts/peripherals, etc.
NOYB
Who cares where the distribution centers are and who they employ! And why
did you mention "Yamaha"? Chrisopher didn't even use the name "Yamaha". He
asked about Harry's non-union-made outboards...and you responded that
"Yamaha has plants in the U.S. and they use organized labor".
It's obvious, now, that you either a) can't follow a thread, or b)
deliberately tried to spin the topic *away* from outboards.
Florida Keyz
Doug Kanter
newsgroups......
"Florida Keyz" <flori...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040129145313...@mb-m12.aol.com...
John H
I know of one Yamaha dealer that isn't unionized. That makes your
statement erroneous. Can you list a couple that are unionized?
Not trying to put you down or anything, just interested. I'd like to
call a few of the dealers on your list just to see if they are
unionized.
Doug Kanter
Dealers??? John, I suspect that by distribution points, he meant warehouses.
Many marinas consist of a bunch of salesmen, a parts counter and a mechanic
or two. If two guys can't negotiate without a union......
Harry Krause
Duh...distribution points does not refer to dealers.
Too much time in the army, eh, John?
Florida Keyz
basskisser
> Who cares where the distribution centers are and who they employ! And why
> did you mention "Yamaha"? Chrisopher didn't even use the name "Yamaha". He
> asked about Harry's non-union-made outboards...and you responded that
> "Yamaha has plants in the U.S. and they use organized labor".
And we all know that Harry's boat has a Yamaha motor, it's been
mentioned several times.....so...do YOU think that Christopher meant
something else?
>
> It's obvious, now, that you either a) can't follow a thread, or b)
> deliberately tried to spin the topic *away* from outboards.
You fucking idiot!!! Do you not think that outboard motors need to be
distributed? Hmm, here's a thought you dolt, maybe that distribution
of those outboards........are through distribution centers...ya think?
Now, the centers are wholly owned and operated by Yamaha Motors,
U.S.A. and use union labor. My orginal "yamaha has plants in the U.S.
and they use organized labor" is valid, and correct.
basskisser
>
> >"NOYB" <NO...@NOYB.COM> wrote in message news:<osSRb.434$GO6...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> >> basskisser,
> >> Still think Yamaha outboards are made in the US with union labor? LOL!
> >
> >Please show where I said Yamaha outboards are made in the U.S. with
> >union labor.
> >I wouldn't think you've ever heard of any other facet of the process
> >that starts as a concept, and ends up on someone's boat, huh? What a
> >narrow minded ninny you are!! There are many, many Yamaha distribution
> >points IN THE U.S. for Yamaha outboards. They are unionized. There are
> >numerous parts distribution facilities in the U.S. that Yamaha
> >owns...all union workforce. The list goes on and on, but alas, you are
> >too closed minded to understand the
> >manufacture/distribution/parts/peripherals, etc.
>
> I know of one Yamaha dealer that isn't unionized. That makes your
> statement erroneous. Can you list a couple that are unionized?
No, I know of no Yamaha "dealers" that are unionized. But, I never
mentioned dealers.
>
> Not trying to put you down or anything, just interested. I'd like to
> call a few of the dealers on your list just to see if they are
> unionized.
See above. You see, John, you are getting the local dealer mixed up
with new motor distribution facilities, new parts distribution
facilities, etc.
basskisser
> cowards hide behind fake email names.. if the shoe fits........
Idiots with no balls call others cowards.
John H
OK, my boo-boo. Do you have any new motor distribution facilities or
new parts distribution facilities (Yamaha, of course) that you could
share with us?
Doug Kanter
Can you name the closest city to Rochester NY where Wal Mart has a major
warehous? :-)
John H
Could you post the names of a few of those unionized Yamaha
distribution centers? Please?
John H
Uh, Gates, New York?
Doug Kanter
No...not Gates. However, Gates *does* have America's best collection of old
Italian ladies who dress in nothing but black, wear nun shoes, and refuse to
die.
John H
<ancien...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well, there are three distribution centers in New York. Right now the
guy that can give me an answer to your question is in a "division
meeting" and won't be available for another hour. Can you wait that
long? I'm afraid my wife will get home and make me quit playing.
Don't you have any truckers to argue with? Do those guys still use
CB's? Where are you anyway? Yesterday I thought you were in LA, but I
must have been wrong 'cause you didn't believe me about Gates, NY.
(There *is* a big superstore either there or going in there.)
Doug Kanter
> >> >
> >> >Can you name the closest city to Rochester NY where Wal Mart has a
major
> >> >warehous? :-)
> >> >
> >> Uh, Gates, New York?
> >>
> >> John H
> >
> >No...not Gates. However, Gates *does* have America's best collection of
old
> >Italian ladies who dress in nothing but black, wear nun shoes, and refuse
to
> >die.
> >
> Well, there are three distribution centers in New York. Right now the
> guy that can give me an answer to your question is in a "division
> meeting" and won't be available for another hour. Can you wait that
> long? I'm afraid my wife will get home and make me quit playing.
>
> Don't you have any truckers to argue with? Do those guys still use
> CB's? Where are you anyway? Yesterday I thought you were in LA, but I
> must have been wrong 'cause you didn't believe me about Gates, NY.
> (There *is* a big superstore either there or going in there.)
>
> John H
I'm located in Rochester. My customers are all over the country, John. In 12
years, I've met 2 of them. It's all done over the phone, by fax and
increasingly, by computers talking to one another.
The nearest distribution center to here is Syracuse. I asked because I doubt
that the location of Yamaha's distribution centers is well known to anyone.
The only reason I'm aware of Wal Mart's is that it was in the news because
my county tried to offer a bigger blowjob (tax incentive) to locate it here.
Syracuse made more sense, though, in terms of logistics.
John H
I agree that the locations of Yamaha's distribution centers are not
well known to everyone. Based on his posts, however, I assume
basskisser knows quite a bit about Yamaha's distribution centers. How
many average people would know that they are all unionized?
Basskisser stated, "There are many, many Yamaha distribution
points IN THE U.S. for Yamaha outboards. They are unionized. There are
numerous parts distribution facilities in the U.S. that Yamaha
owns...all union workforce. "
Based on this, I assume he's pretty familiar with the distribution
centers.
Fair, or unfair?
Doug Kanter
> >
> >The nearest distribution center to here is Syracuse. I asked because I
doubt
> >that the location of Yamaha's distribution centers is well known to
anyone.
> >The only reason I'm aware of Wal Mart's is that it was in the news
because
> >my county tried to offer a bigger blowjob (tax incentive) to locate it
here.
> >Syracuse made more sense, though, in terms of logistics.
> >
>
> I agree that the locations of Yamaha's distribution centers are not
> well known to everyone. Based on his posts, however, I assume
> basskisser knows quite a bit about Yamaha's distribution centers. How
> many average people would know that they are all unionized?
>
> Basskisser stated, "There are many, many Yamaha distribution
> points IN THE U.S. for Yamaha outboards. They are unionized. There are
> numerous parts distribution facilities in the U.S. that Yamaha
> owns...all union workforce. "
>
> Based on this, I assume he's pretty familiar with the distribution
> centers.
>
> Fair, or unfair?
>
> John H
Probably fair, but I *do* have to toe the party line, John. Even if
basskisser is wrong, he's right. :-) At least he's not dropping acid,
choking on pretzels and claiming to know where there are weapons of mass
destruction. ROFL!!!
John H
I know, I know. I won't tell anyone. Hurry up and delete all these
before anyone reads 'em!
fred
"basskisser" <atl_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c74f111.04013...@posting.google.com...
Harry Krause
Why would you care? You aren't buying one.
Or are yoo looking for honest work?
Harry Krause
> Can you name one Yamaha Distribution Center that is unionized?
>
Why, Fred..you planning to blow it up?
NOYB
"John H" <jherring$$@$$cox**.net> wrote in message
This is the point where basskisser permanently disappears from the thread...
basskisser
> distribution centers? Please?
>
> John H
>
> On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
> on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!
Sure, my pleasure!
C&C Manufacturing, wholly owned and operated by Yamaha, U.S.A. in
Panama City, FL
Yamaha Motor Corporation located in Cypress, CA
Yamaha Motor Corporation U.S.A - Marine Group, Kennesaw, GA
Yamaha Motor Corporation U.S.A. - manufacturing facility, Newnan GA
Tennesee Watercraft, wholly owned subsidiary, in Tenn.
If you need more, a simple web search will give you a lot of information.
NOYB
Just wanted to repost John's response under the proper thread...
basskisser, thanks for the list of Yamaha centers in the US that you
provided. I spoke with head office for Yamaha Motor Corporation,
U.S.A. in Cypress, CA -- see below:
Tel: 714-761-7300
Fax: 714-761-7302
Key People
. President: Shohei Kato
. CFO: Nicky Mizuta
We went through your list. Guess what -- none (to the best of her
knowledge, and she said she'd know) are unionized. Now, did you tell a
lie, or were you simply misinformed by your intelligence sources
(Harry, I assume).
John H
Thanks! I couldn't figure out which thread it was. Now I see, "...un
Patriotic Act...". Hell, I should have been able to figure that one
out!
basskisser
I've already replied, dumb ass.
basskisser
> > Could you post the names of a few of those unionized Yamaha
> > distribution centers? Please?
>
> This is the point where basskisser permanently disappears from the thread...
Wrong again, idiot! Boy, it sure is fun proving what a dolt you really are.
NOYB
Dumb ass.
NOYB
idiot...dolt