Bilge pump installation??
Steve
electric bilge pumps. The boat I'm building has 3 seperate bilge sumps and
I'm installing an electric pump in each.
Here is a question I have puzzled each time I install another pump. You
can't just screw the pump base into the fiberglass hull. How do you secure
the pump in the bottom of the sump so it doesn't 'slushing' around with the
bilge water or tip over?? In the past I have placed a piece of plywood in
the botton and screwed the pump and switch to this, but that raises the pump
and switch, thus leaving even more water that doesn't get pumped out.
BTW. I was just reading the spec. on my ITT float switch and if it were to
be placed in the very bottom of the sump, it would still leave 7/8" water
when it shuts off. If I mount the pump and switch on a 3/8" piece of ply,
then I leave 1 1/4" of water in the bilge. Maybe I'm being picky but I want
to get as much water out as possible.
How do all of you secure your pumps in place??
Steve
s/v Good Intentions
Jeff Morris
But seriously, what's wrong with a small sheet metal screw, or perhaps some semi-tough adhesive like
4200?
What I've wondered is why do bilges run the full length of a boat? Wouldn't it be better to have a
"dam" in the aft section to catch seepage from the shaft and perhaps the rain overflow from a
cockpit locker? Do most people carry a half inch of water in the whole length of the boat?
--
-jeff
"Steve" <est...@hctc.com> wrote in message news:ub9mr4t...@corp.supernews.com...
Steve
lead internal ballast. I don't think so!
I've thought of the 5200 but when the bilge is already greasy and damp, I
would doubt that it would stick and sooner or later you have to replace
these pumps and switches. Most of the pumps I have installed in the past
have been on older boats with nasty bilges and no opportunity to really
clean and dry them out.
Regarding your question about bilges the full length. I agree. Most boat
bilges slope and the water runs from the bow back to a sump under the
engine. This is fine until you get a bunch of stinky muddy draining out of
the chain locker (mine is always located below the waterline so I can't
drain it overboard directly). In one boat I installed a drain line from the
chain locker back to the main bilge sump so I wouldn't have that damp mess
running the length of the boat.
On this boat my fuel, water and holding tanks are all built into the
bilge/keel and I have a bilge sump between each group to prevent cross
contamination should any ever leak. My chain locker drains directly into the
forward sump.
My thoughts, FWIW.
Steve
s/v Good Intentions
Keith
use very short ones sealed up with 5200 or such, shouldn't be a problem.
I've mounted stuff like that before... drill the hole, fill it with
5200, then put the screw in.
Alternately, make an "L" bracket of aluminum and screw it into a
stringer or something like that, then mount the pump on that. Same
comments on sealing screw holes applies.
--
__________________
Keith
Grabel's Law: 2 is not equal to 3 -- not even for large values of 2.
d parker
fixed at a higher point.
DP
"Steve" <est...@hctc.com> wrote in message
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Steve
is fiberglass tank bulkheads.
I just came back in from the boat/shop. I fashioned a 1/8" stainless plate,
just the size of the sump bottom. I drilled and tapped that for the mounting
screws of the switch and pump. Weights about a pound so it shouldn't float
out of position.
One sump down and 2 more to go.
Thanks for the suggestions. (except for those that suggested drilling and
screwing into my hull ;'o( )
Steve
s/v Good Intentions
Bruce
up the switch, and when you replace the pump get the same and use same
basket
bruce
"Steve" <est...@hctc.com> wrote in message
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LaBomba182
Rich Hampel
cross bracing from the sole. These are attached with wing nuts, so in
the event of jam (or even for cleaning) I can pull the T frame with the
pump and switch attached.
Mike Niemela
I have fiberglassed an "L" bracket,made out of mat, to the hull and tied
the pump to that with ty-raps. The switch was mounted by making a pocket
the foot on the switch would slip into out of mat. When cured a screw
was run down from the top thru this pocket and into the screw hole in
the switch. Held for many years while I had that boat.
Best
Mike N
Calif Bill
plate. Attach the pump to the screws with a nut. Glue the plate down to
the bilge.
Bill
"Steve" <est...@hctc.com> wrote in message
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Buck Frobisher
--
"Stay calm. Be brave. Wait for the signs."
regards,
Frank Johansen
Aurora, Ontario
SuperTech
down with 4200 and bolted up through the basket. I can unsnap the
pump from the basket for jam clearing or cleaning very easily.
Obviously, great boat minds do think alike. ;-)
ich...@ak47.algebra.com
>Are you suggesting that I drive a screw into my fiberglass that seals in the
>lead internal ballast. I don't think so!
>
>I've thought of the 5200 but when the bilge is already greasy and damp, I
>would doubt that it would stick and sooner or later you have to replace
>these pumps and switches. Most of the pumps I have installed in the past
>have been on older boats with nasty bilges and no opportunity to really
>clean and dry them out.
clean the grease with gasoline or whatever (observing safety precautions),
and use sandpaper to roughen the surface. 5200 will easily stick to that.
I used 5200 on the gimbal housing inside my bellows, it is dirty, greasy,
wet, and is subjected to vibrations. Despite all that the 5200 is holding
perfectly. 5200 is an adhesive from heavens.
Note sure about 4200 though. The advantage of 4200 is supposedly is that
it is not as strong.
igor
ich...@ak47.algebra.com
>Why not use screws? As long as you know your hull's construction, and
>use very short ones sealed up with 5200 or such, shouldn't be a problem.
>I've mounted stuff like that before... drill the hole, fill it with
>5200, then put the screw in.
That's what I did too. Worked great.
igor
Bruce
basket/switch down
Bruce
"Bruce" <br...@maddawgcomputers.com> wrote in message
news:6j6t8.40803$pe6.13...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
Dazed and Confuzed
epoxied to the bottom of your bilge? this solves both issues.
Steve wrote:
--
"They that can give up liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety." Benjamin Franklin
Steve
the mounting screws.
I could have done it with aluminun but didn't want the corrosion in the
bilge since there will always be some small amount of sea water left.
Thanks
Steve
s/v Good Intentions
K. Smith
> I have owned several fiberglass boats and have installed about a dozen
> electric bilge pumps. The boat I'm building has 3 seperate bilge sumps and
> I'm installing an electric pump in each.
>
> Here is a question I have puzzled each time I install another pump. You
> can't just screw the pump base into the fiberglass hull. How do you secure
> the pump in the bottom of the sump so it doesn't 'slushing' around with the
> bilge water or tip over?? In the past I have placed a piece of plywood in
> the botton and screwed the pump and switch to this, but that raises the pump
> and switch, thus leaving even more water that doesn't get pumped out.
Usually just a piece of something glassed as a pad in the bilge, then screw
to that. I see the other solutions all look pretty good too.
>
>
> BTW. I was just reading the spec. on my ITT float switch and if it were to
> be placed in the very bottom of the sump, it would still leave 7/8" water
> when it shuts off. If I mount the pump and switch on a 3/8" piece of ply,
> then I leave 1 1/4" of water in the bilge. Maybe I'm being picky but I want
> to get as much water out as possible.
This has been the best fix for float switches around here, damn things ;-)
(i) You need just the ordinary mercury switch float switch, mount it well up
out of the bilge water, try to keep it dry at all times. Say 3" above what you
think is as high as you'd ever want the water get in "any" situation..
(ii) You then using just construction adhesive (no nails is OK) glue a block
of polyfoam onto the switch arm (use a placky band to hold it on there as the
adhesive sets)
(iii) After it's all cured, it's easy to shape the polyfoam block so it
doesn't get fouled & triggers the pump on AND off, at exactly the water levels
you want it to.
(iv) With the foam you can get it to pump down as far as the pump can pickup
if you want (which still leaves a little anyway).
(v) Before you do that you might consider;
(a) If you try to go too low you can with just a little trash, stop it
turning off easily, the pump & battery don't like that &
(b) that a very low pickup means it'll pick up any oil atop the bilge
water & pump it overboard. Given modern sensitivities ;-) some people
deliberately set it so it deliberately leaves a little; say there's a slight
oops with the oil change??, fuel??? or whatever, you don't have the double
embarrassment of it being auto pumped in front of the yacht club. The spill
might trigger the pump but it'll pump the water first & hopefully turn off
before or as it gets to, the oil.
Best Regards,
K
Caitsu
"K. Smith" <ksm...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3CB6877A...@tpg.com.au...
> (i) You need just the ordinary mercury switch float switch, mount it
well up
> out of the bilge water, try to keep it dry at all times.
I've never looked closely at these switces. Are they really mercury? I could
imagine a mercury swich goes on and off too easily in a rocking boat.
Caitzu
Steve
the mercury is in a glass tube with contacts at one end. In addition to the
mercury making the electrical contact, it forms a moveable 'ballast' inside
the float so that it runs to the opposite end of the tube when the float
falls to a certian point. This then causes a delay for between pump cycles
since the water level must raise several inches before the mercury will run
back to the contact end of the tube.
Sometimes this is accomplished with a ball bearing, but in the Rule
switches, I never hear any thing rattleing around so I assume that it is
mecury.
--
My experience and opinion, FWIW.
Steve
S/V Good Intentions
Dave Cannell
I'm going to mount a long aluminim angle to the side of the bilge pump and
secure that above the pump. I'm hoping that will work in my case. I
agree with you, I want as little water as possible in there.
Dave Cannell
--
Steve
risk of pumping oil over the side. I'm going to settle for the 7/8" shut off
of the switch plus the 1/8" thickness of the SS plate that I use to mount
them on. That should be a safe magin, if I have that much oil in the bilge,
it's time to start looking for the source.
Thanks for all the recommendations. But for some reason I have sneaking
suspicion that about half the boats out on the water have their bilge pumps
and switches slushing around without being secured. Why do I say that?? Well
in my 40+ year of boating, that usually what I ended up doing and I consider
myself an average boater.
K. Smith
It's a tube with a bend in it, so the mercury doesn't "run" till the angle
has changed quite some.
Some of the cheaper brands use a ball in tube (again a bent tube) &
they're fine also, if kept dry.
The most important thing is not to let the switch sit in water, as most of
them do, corrosion works it's way up the wires' core till the switch dies,
well the connection to the switch does;-)
Best regards,
K
Steve
salt water. If you complain to the vendor (WM) they will offer the premium
switch if you want to pay the difference.
Due to the above bad experiences I have had, I just avoid the Rule switches.
Their pumps are fine.
For my main sump in the engine compatment, I'm using a Rule 3000 HD with a
Ultra Safety Systems (sold under the West Marine name) pumpswitch. It also
incorporates the alarm sensor. And it has a Lift Time Warranty (for what
that is worth). I also have manual pump and engine driven pump.
For the mid-ship & fwd bilges I'm using Rule 2000s and ITT float switches.
I have to try to keep up with any water that may get in since a large
portion of my bilge volume is taken up by tankage. About a dozen shots of
water down the main hatch and the bilge water will be up to the tank tops. I
estimate the volume of the 3 sumps it about 500 gallons, volume to the cabin
sole is about 6000 gal . A dreaded thought but I have awaken to water over
the cabin sole before when a crew member didn't secure the head correctly,
plus a non-fuctioning electric pump.
Calif Bill
behind the pump. So the result was the water would float the switch while
the pump was still dry when the bow was running pointed up somewhat. Moved
it in front of the pump. Make sure it is fastened down well. Had the plate
come loose one time (alum boat / alum plate / bad butyl rubber) and the
switch layed over to the side, running the pump for some extended time. At
least until the seals melted and pump failed.
Bill
"Steve" <est...@hctc.com> wrote in message
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Steve
somewhat". But I do have some concern of being laid over on 'beams-end' or
worst case, a complete roll over (360 I hope). Good reason to have all the
sole scewed or latched down.
I've been on 'beams-end' and sure made a mess in when the bilge water got
into the lee lockers. Good reason to keep them as dry as possible.
woodensails
picking up stingers on each end. Slight pressure on top of pump to ensure
nothing shifts.
"Steve" <est...@hctc.com> wrote in message
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Rick Morel
Steve, why not just eliminate the float switches and go with the Rule
"Fully Automatic" bilge pumps? These turn on and check for water every
2-1/2 minutes by sensing current. Less than 1 Amp Hour per day if the
bilge is dry. A plus is you always know it's working because you can
hear it cycle.
http://www.rule-industries.com/pumps.htm
They still show the Platinum series on the web page, but I understand
there were problems with these and they were discontinued.
Our boat had an auto one for over four years with no problems. Our
lightning hit took it out and we bought a Plantinum. In less than a
year the shaft broke on it. When I returned it for warrenty
replacement I was given the regular one and the cost difference in
cash, and told Platinum had been discontined due to such problems.
Maybe they've redesigned?
No connection with Rule other than a happy customer.
Rick Morel
S/V Final Step
http://www.morelr.com/coronado/
Steve
Rule float switches so I don't think I would trust their combine pump/switch
unit. By the same token I like their pumps-Never had a pump failure.
Also, I don't think the fully automatic pumps come in the larger sizes--2000
and 3000 heavy duty.
Thanks for the feed back on the Platinum series, just another confirmation
that Rule has problems with their switch technology.
Steve
s/v Good Intentions
Rick Morel
>I have had 40 years (well many be not that many) of bad experiences with
>Rule float switches so I don't think I would trust their combine pump/switch
>unit. By the same token I like their pumps-Never had a pump failure.
>
>Also, I don't think the fully automatic pumps come in the larger sizes--2000
>and 3000 heavy duty.
The fully automatic series goes up to 8,000 GPH. No "switch" switch in
them. It is electronic switching that turns it on every 2-1/2 minutes,
then a current sensor circuit comes into play. If current is less than
X it means no water is being pumped and it shuts down within 1 second.
If more than X, it stays on until the water is pumped out (current
drops below X), then shuts down.
>Thanks for the feed back on the Platinum series, just another confirmation
>that Rule has problems with their switch technology.
I agree about their switches! The problem with the Platinim was the
pump motor shaft in my case, and the dealer mentioned that was what
Rule said when he called them about my replacement. Mine still turned
on and checked for water, but with a sheared shaft it never found any
:-)
Just went to their web page and I see they only list the 500 and 1,100
GPH for the Platinum. Maybe the problem was only with the larger ones?
Steve
to get that simple technology 'right' and they have failed merseriably. I
don't think I would trust my boat to their 1st venture into electronics,
especially electronics in the bilge. In fact I'll keep the electronics on
the chart table and go with good old electrical/mechanical switches in the
bilge.
Lew Hodgett
set it on fire.
No ifs, ands or buts, float switches have only one thing to offer, low
inital price.
My business is level measurement, providing GUARANTEED, money back,
engineered solutions for level measurement applications for the process
industry.
I make a very good living replacing failed float switches, AKA: Toilet Bowl
Floats.
Some have mercury switches which are best left to outdated analog
thermostats, some do not.
You can try to use conductivity, even capacitance, but it is not reliable
for a bilge application.
The only reliable high level bilge detection device is what is known as the
"Tuning Fork", base price, about $200; however, you will need a power module
to handle a pump motor, another $50 or so.
For $250, I'l turn on my bilge pump every day for 10 minutes, monitor the
discharge visually, and use the $250 to buy beer.
--
Lew
S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
K. Smith
I'm harping I know & sorry, but the "switch" itself rarely if ever fails,
the wires getting into the tube do often.
So long as you NEVER let it get wet or sit in water (see earlier posts),
they'll last for years & years.
Even the cheap low amp models, here they use a nice high & dry mounted
relay.
Just an opinion, but those so called high tech electronic solutions, the
washing machine switches etc etc are much more risky, in our view.
K
David Smalley
>
> ... in our view.
Someone has illusions of royalty?
Mikedemetz
lasted 5 years in a shrimp boat. It was still going when I sold the boat.
Mike
*************************
K. Smith
> "K. Smith" wrote:
> >
> > ... in our view.
>
> Someone has illusions of royalty?
No Dave, I try not to claim what I post is my own work &
indeed the sorting out of bilge pump switches that I posted is
just the usual thing here for years.
I would have thought trying to pass on the info of how
they're fixed here would be good???, because over time I've
never seen anyone else actually do it.
The "our" is because I checked with my blokes & made sure I
had it right so acknowledge same, believe me if they can get me
to understand something then it can't be that difficult.
Most basements in big buildings are pumped dry for years &
years by mercury activated switches so there's nothing
inherently wrong with that part, it's just in "our" (that's us
Dave, rec boaters) price restrained switches they don't like
getting wet, silly I know ; don't let the float switch get wet.
Again why don't you comment on the actual advice?? instead
of me ??? Keep this up & I'll let Skip off the chain;-)
Best regards,
K
>
>
> --
> DAVe
> http://personal.mia.bellsouth.net/mia/d/r/drsi/
K. Smith
> You may have had trouble with a washing machine switch but I built one that
> lasted 5 years in a shrimp boat. It was still going when I sold the boat.
Yes some swear by them here to, but everyone swears here regardless;-) It
seems junk (matches, oily grease etc) can get in the hose, but as you say if it
gets a nice clean signal the switch is well up so high & dry.
K