Okay, so here's what happened.
John H
winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them,
Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town
for a few days.
I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the
machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had
heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should
have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message.
Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this
every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing.
The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16
Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is
happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no
nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch,
but other than that there is no security.
Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on
Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording
that the phone's been disconnected. Shit.
I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call
and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke,
or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out
and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to
civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far
as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me.
This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can
provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get
there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded
in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies.
Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place.
I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask
if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want
my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't
called, his response is, "Personal problems."
Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
--
John H
Vic Smith
wrote:
>
>Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
Sounds like they're goners anyway.
Looks like you were just in time. Good move.
Better see if they actually winterized your boat.
--Vic
H the K
Did herring find another *quality* dealer for us...
--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.
John H
I'm not taking any chances. I took it to another Yamaha guy a little
further down the road, Stafford Marine. Told them what happened. Told
them to winterize it, even if it had already been done.
I hadn't given the Dumfries folks any money, so I'm not out anything.
It just takes an extra half-hour of driving to get to this place. But,
that's OK.
--
John H
I am Tosk
salmo...@gmail.dotcom says...
Have you contacted the local news and papers. This sounds like something
that needs to be brought to the attention of the locals. If they are
going under (sounds like it), folks should know like you to go get their
boats, or any other assets they people are holding...
Don White
"John H" <salmo...@gmail.dotcom> wrote in message
news:6rlog5h7g4hp5tkt6...@4ax.com...
Read that manual and winterize it yourself.......
oh wait...you don't read manuals.
H the K
>>snerk and...snerk<<
nom=de=plume
It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the
bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
else.
--
Nom=de=Plume
H the K
It's still not too late... :>)
John H
<gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote:
>Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
>the best approach.
>
>To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
>You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
>obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.
>
>When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
>forgiveness, NOT permission.....
I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
in *my* driveway.
They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.
--
John H
Rob
He has a big boy outboard that they don't sell at Toys R Us.
Rob
Rob
If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to
the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are
out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If
they have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy
court can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.
Rob - Been there, different circumstances.
Rob
In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.
Rob
nom=de=plume
news:2ksog59uigvdmlrfv...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
> <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote:
>
> the best approach.
>
> To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
> You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
> obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.
>
> When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
> forgiveness, NOT permission.....
> It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are
> enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
> -Thomas Sowell
>
> Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.
>
> Homepage
> <http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm>
>
> Fort� Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta
No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they
sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
You'd be wrong. If you remove something from someone else's property without
their permission, you're subject to arrest. This nine-tenths business gets a
lot of people in trouble who wouldn't have been if they just had some
patience.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
news:4tqdnY2qVZl845HW...@giganews.com...
Probably correct, although I'm not super familiar with bankruptcy law. It's
better to err on the side of the law than risk bad things.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
> for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a
> claim on HIS boat.....
>
> Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
> his own property, I think not....
You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would
for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.
--
Nom=de=Plume
Rob
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:45:42 -0500, Rob<R...@getgmail00.com> wrote:
>
>> If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to
>> the owners.
>
> See Item 3 ===>
>
>> If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are
>> out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job.
>
> can be found.
>
>> If they have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy
>> court can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.
>
> Which is a wonderful ploy if they are trying to raid YOUR pockets to
> pay THEIR encumbrances... WHETHER OR NOT anything has actually been
> accomplished!
I agree on #3 - they will nickle and dime every penny they can get for
"expenses". Personal property that is in for repair is always released
prior to the auction and final "tally" if it's removed in the allowed
time frame.
Rob
Rob
> for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a
> claim on HIS boat.....
>
> Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
> his own property, I think not....
Wrong - unless the law varies by state (I don't believe it does). I've
witnessed this first-hand. There is a designated time frame where the
owners of property that is in for repair can claim it, and take it, with
proper documentation.
Rob
Rob
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:10:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>
>> This nine-tenths business gets a
>> lot of people in trouble who wouldn't have been if they just had some
>> patience.
>
> which i$ ALREADY YOUR$......
>
> You can't "steal" something that you OWN......
If you have to enter private property to do it you can have problems.
Rob
Rob
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene
> <gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote:
>
>
>>> You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would
>>> for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
>>> charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.
>
>
> "In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's
> property without that person's freely-given consent."
>
> Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft!
The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area.
Rob
H the K
>
> I don't know where you live and I won't troll for that...... BUT.... I
> urge you to explore your laws and justify how a person can "STEAL" his
> own property.
>
> IOW.... if I come to your property and liberate your boat, your point
> is...... what? What do you have to do to recover your property once
> locked in my lot? I'll lie and say that you gave me the property for
> repair....
>
> now... defend yourself.....
"Rob" is just the latest sock puppet of "DanKrueger," who claims to live
in Florida.
nom=de=plume
> take my chances.... and feel very sure that I'll be fine.....
I think you think anecdotal evidence is valid for making conclusions.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
>>>would
>>>for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
>>>charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.
>
>
> "In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's
> property without that person's freely-given consent."
>
> Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft!
> It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are
> enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
> -Thomas Sowell
>
> Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.
>
> Homepage
> <http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm>
>
> Fort� Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta
Yes, but there's the rub. You would end up in court and might very well
prevail on that point. You still initially go to jail. Additionally, this
would not excuse illegal trespass, perhaps damage to someone else's property
in your recovery of said property. You might walk, but you might be fined or
even jailed if it was egregious.
Look at a limiting case... you know someone stole your watch. You know he's
got in his apartment. So, when he's not there, you break down the door,
rifle through his stuff, break a few things, find your watch, then leave.
Someone sees you leave.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
Well, the circumstances are different that what John described. Thus, the
law is different.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
See my other response.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:10:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>
>>lot of people in trouble who wouldn't have been if they just had some
>>patience.
>
> which i$ ALREADY YOUR$......
>
> You can't "steal" something that you OWN......
Feel free to excercise your supposed rights. I'm not your lawyer, and I'm
not going to attempt to advise you on the correct action.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
>
> post No Trespassing signs....... maybe a different situation.....
No, there's a presumption of private property involved also... just like a
presumption of privacy. Sorry.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
> <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"Gene" <gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote in message
>>> It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are
>>> enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
>>> -Thomas Sowell
>>>
>>> Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.
>>>
>>> Homepage
>>> <http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm>
>>>
>>> Fort� Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta
>>
>>
>>sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.
>
> Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
> with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.
>
> Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
> attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
> action available to him.
>
> Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
> "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.
>
> Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
> proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......
Here's a thought exercise for you...
DA: Did you or did you not enter SoSo's property without permission?
Gene: It was my boat.
DA: Non-responsive. Would the court please direct the witness to answer the
question.
Judge: Answer the question.
Gene: Yes.
DA: Did you damage SoSo's property in the act of removing the boat from said
property?
Gene: I cut a lock that was holding my boat.
DA: Non-responsive. Would the court please direct the witness to answer the
question.
Judge: Answer the question.
Gene: Yes.
DA: I rest my case.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:07:09 -0500, H the K <naled...@mypacks.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Rob" is just the latest sock puppet of "DanKrueger," who claims to live
>>in Florida.
>
> have attorney receipts (and others) that attest to the dangers of
> dealing with "Jaysus" people. The last one ripped us off for $2500.
> Sooner or later, my wife and others, who would like to take these
> people at face value, will get it. There are those who play the system
> like a violin..... and we need to be wiser and more savvy than those
> folks or they'll drain us for ever drop of blood we have....
I assume you're talking about lawyer... Yes, "let's kill all the lawyers."
http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/lets-kill-all-lawyers
Sniff...
--
Nom=de=Plume
Steve B
Good on you for getting your boat back.
Bad on you for taking yourself so damn long.
You're lucky you got it back at all, as in that much time, it could have
floated out of there, never to be seen again.
A good deed to those people who were losing their business, yet had enough
decency not to sell your boat for parts to the first scavenger who came
along.
Steve
Steve B
"Don White" <whi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote
>
> Read that manual and winterize it yourself.......
> oh wait...you don't read manuals.
Probably doesn't have the thirty minutes it takes to "winterize".
Steve
jps
<nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote:
He didn't respond to my phone calls and during three visits to the
property during business hours, he was not on the premises. The
premises appeared to have been abandoned and I didn't want my boat to
be interpretted as abandoned.
>Gene: It was my boat.
>DA: Non-responsive. Would the court please direct the witness to answer the
>question.
>Judge: Answer the question.
>Gene: Yes.
>DA: Did you damage SoSo's property in the act of removing the boat from said
>property?
I had full intention of reimbursing SoSo's cost of the security
device, if I could *find a way to get a hold of him.*
Judge: Well Gene, seems like you took matters into your own hands and
normally we'd frown on such an act. But under the circumstances I
understand your concern and think you conducted yourself in a
reasonable manner. We'll drop all charges when you've made
restitution to the scum bag who didn't bother to call you to let you
know they were going under.
Don White
"nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hei0bi$uqp$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, Rob <R...@getgmail00.com> wrote:
>>
>>>John H wrote:
>>>> better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
>>>> in *my* driveway.
>>>>
>>>> They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.
>>>
>>>bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.
>>>
>>>Rob
>>
>> for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a
>> claim on HIS boat.....
>>
>> Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
>> his own property, I think not....
>
>
> would for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop
> the charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.
>
> Nom=de=Plume
Wonder what would have happened if Johnny cut the chain and left the yard
open after he left, exposing any other boats to theft by the first non
desirable who came along.
I am Tosk
gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net says...
>
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
> <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are
> >> enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
> >> -Thomas Sowell
> >>
> >> Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.
> >>
> >> Homepage
> >> <http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm>
> >>
> >
> >
> >No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they
> >sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.
>
> Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
> with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.
>
> Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
> attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
> action available to him.
>
> Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
> "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.
>
> Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
> proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......
Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to
take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.
I am Tosk
gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net says...
>
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:22:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they
> >>>sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.
> >>
> >> Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
> >> with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.
> >>
> >> Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
> >> attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
> >> action available to him.
> >>
> >> Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
> >> "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.
> >>
> >> Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
> >> proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......
> >
> >Here's a thought exercise for you...
> >
>
> >DA: Did you or did you not enter SoSo's property without permission?
> >DA: Non-responsive. Would the court please direct the witness to answer the
> >question.
> >Judge: Answer the question.
> >DA: Did you damage SoSo's property in the act of removing the boat from said
> >property?
> >DA: Non-responsive. Would the court please direct the witness to answer the
> >question.
> >Judge: Answer the question.
> >Gene: Yes.
>
> Your version? Screwed up!
"I don't recall" works pretty good too, unless there is a willing eye
witness or film.
nom=de=plume
news:4b0c9eb2$0$5359$9a56...@news.aliant.net...
Whew... that would be bad news... the prosecutor would be much less inclined
to give someone a breat I'm betting.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
Ah.. ok, I'll wipe my nose. :)
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
news:hi6pg5tupdvjojp1m...@4ax.com...
Maybe... it would have to be pretty obviously abandoned property. A few
calls and a few tries probably wouldn't be enough. You can't break laws to
prevent someone else from breaking the law. Also, using "intention" as a
defense might work, but lots of people claim that... it wasn't my
"intention" to kill him, but my hand slipped and the gun went off.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:22:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>>DA: Did you or did you not enter SoSo's property without permission?
DA: Was the gate locked?
Gene: Yes.
DA: If my front door is locked and nobody answers, do you think it's ok to
break the lock and walk in?
>>DA: Non-responsive. Would the court please direct the witness to answer
>>the
>>question.
>>Judge: Answer the question.
> Gene: No.
>>DA: Did you damage SoSo's property in the act of removing the boat from
>>said
>>property?
> Gene: Me? What?
DA: What about the witness that watched you break the lock?
Gene: Ummmm....
>>DA: Non-responsive. Would the court please direct the witness to answer
>>the
>>question.
>>Judge: Answer the question.
>>Gene: Yes.
> DA: Oh, shit!
Oh, shit? You just made his case.
> Your version? Screwed up!
My version... more like what you learn in law school. :)
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
news:MPG.25767950...@eternal-september.org...
Yes, unless there's a witness or other evidence.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
>> >
>> >
>> >No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while
>> >they
>> >sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.
>>
>> Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
>> with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.
>>
>> Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
>> attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
>> action available to him.
>>
>> Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
>> "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.
>>
>> Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
>> proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......
>
> Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to
> take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.
Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is implied by
said lock.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
news:61iut6-...@news.infowest.com...
Yes. Good for being persistent and not breaking the law. You never know what
really happened with those people... They may very well have intended to
make things right.
--
Nom=de=Plume
jps
I expect, given the circumstances, the judge would be pretty lenient.
If the Bigot Herring's story is accurate, he did put a lot of effort
into trying to contact the shop, including two trips.
If Bigot Herring's boat was on unsecured property, I think most city
attorneys would think no harm, no foul.
JustWaitAFrekinMinute!
> "I am Tosk" <justwaitafrekinmin...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:MPG.257678c8d...@eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <3c1pg595khdir0lrcce7ntta1pte65i...@4ax.com>,
> > gene.boat...@tranquilrefuge.net says...
>
> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>
> >> >"Gene" <gene.boat...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:2ksog59uigvdmlrfv...@4ax.com...
> >> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>
> >> >>>"John H" <salmonb...@gmail.dotcom> wrote in message
>
> >> >No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while
> >> >they
> >> >sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.
>
> >> Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
> >> with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.
>
> >> Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
> >> attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
> >> action available to him.
>
> >> Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
> >> "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.
>
> >> Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
> >> proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......
>
> > Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to
> > take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.
>
> Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is implied by
> said lock.
>
> --
>
> - Show quoted text -
Uh, what lock?
nom=de=plume
Probably. I read it over again, and I didn't see a mention of it being
behind a gate, so they're probably let it go. Just remember though, trespass
is valid even if there's no gate. You just have to be careful. If someone
saw him cutting a lock and the police showed, he'd better be able to prove
it's his boat. They might let him split, but you never know.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
news:741b65ce-8992-4f26...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while
> >> >they
> >> >sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.
>
> >> Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
> >> with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.
>
> >> Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
> >> attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
> >> action available to him.
>
> >> Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
> >> "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.
>
> >> Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
> >> proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......
>
> > Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to
> > take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.
>
> Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is implied
> by
> said lock.
>
> --
> Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
>Uh, what lock?
The lock on the hitch I believe.
--
Nom=de=Plume
jps
<nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote:
Think I'd do the same thing under those circumstances but would think
twice about breaking into a secured lot to recover my property.
Bill McKee
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:10:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
> <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"John H" <salmo...@gmail.dotcom> wrote in message
>>> better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
>>> in *my* driveway.
>>>
>>> They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.
>>>
>>> John H
>>
>>
>>You'd be wrong. If you remove something from someone else's property
>>without
>>their permission, you're subject to arrest.
>
> Not when that "something" is YOUR property.....
>
>>This nine-tenths business gets a
>>lot of people in trouble who wouldn't have been if they just had some
>>patience.
>
> Bull$hit... patience will only co$t you MANY dollar$ to recover that
> which i$ ALREADY YOUR$......
>
> You can't "steal" something that you OWN......
> It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are
> enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
> -Thomas Sowell
>
> Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.
>
> Homepage
> <http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm>
>
> Fort� Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta
You could be charged with trespassing, but unless you are a total asshole,
and show the business is closed for good, and your property is there in the
yard, the cop is going to go have coffee for at least 10 minutes. If it is
inside a garage, he most likely will not be so accommodating. There have
been a couple cases here in California, where it took up to a year go
recover their property.
Bill McKee
"nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
Judge, the property was abandoned, I could not contact the business and my
very valuable boat was sitting there with electronics, etc. ripe to be
looted. Since there has been no one there during business hours and the
phone was disconnected, I was protecting my property.
Bill McKee
"nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
Just state they said to come get your boat. And since the business has a
phone disconnected, and no one was available during normal business hours or
could be contacted, I did what they said to do. Picked up my boat. They
would have to prove you were not told to pick up your own boat. The DA's
have enough cases, they do not want to screw around with this crap. And
also if in Calif, they have to release people from jail to reduce numbers
and cost. You think the DA is going to spend any time or money on a case
like this?
Bill McKee
"nom=de=plume" <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote in message
Tell them it was your lock and no spare key.
nom=de=plume
news:dq-dncgVo4s9UpHW...@earthlink.com...
Like I said, maybe. Clearly, the property wasn't abandoned, since someone
was there at the end of John's story.
Of course, without the complete facts, it's hard to know what would happen.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
Sure thing. I've seen cases where they take the suspect in anyway. It's not
uncommon. They haul in anyone and everyone, then sort it out later. I'm not
sure it's worth spending the afternoon or perhaps night in common lockup.
--
Nom=de=Plume
nom=de=plume
So, you're willing to sit in jail... well, ok. Sure, you'll get out (maybe)
after a hearing. With the docket crowded as it is, I'm sure you'd get out by
February.
--
Nom=de=Plume
John H
>I am Tosk wrote:
>> In article<cmjog5pf3q1n5mf5n...@4ax.com>,
>> salmo...@gmail.dotcom says...
>> Have you contacted the local news and papers. This sounds like something
>> that needs to be brought to the attention of the locals. If they are
>> going under (sounds like it), folks should know like you to go get their
>> boats, or any other assets they people are holding...
>
>If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to
>the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are
>out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If
>they have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy
>court can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.
>
>Rob - Been there, different circumstances.
The guy said they'd put the stabilizer in the tank, but nothing else.
If they push for it, I'll give them the $10 or whatever. No problem.
--
John H
John H
>Don White wrote:
>> "John H"<salmo...@gmail.dotcom> wrote in message
>> news:6rlog5h7g4hp5tkt6...@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:51:38 -0600, Vic Smith
>>> <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:40:21 -0500, John H<salmo...@gmail.dotcom>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like they're goners anyway.
>>>> Looks like you were just in time. Good move.
>>>> Better see if they actually winterized your boat.
>>>>
>>>> --Vic
>>>
>>> I'm not taking any chances. I took it to another Yamaha guy a little
>>> further down the road, Stafford Marine. Told them what happened. Told
>>> them to winterize it, even if it had already been done.
>>>
>>> I hadn't given the Dumfries folks any money, so I'm not out anything.
>>> It just takes an extra half-hour of driving to get to this place. But,
>>> that's OK.
>>> --
>>>
>>> John H
>>
>> Read that manual and winterize it yourself.......
>> oh wait...you don't read manuals.
>>
>>
>
>He has a big boy outboard that they don't sell at Toys R Us.
>
>Rob
And a *new* big boy outboard. Once the warranty has expired, *then*
I'll start doing this stuff myself.
Up until then I figure I'll help out the local marina economy. When
you've got all the money I have (~snerk~), a hundred bucks once a year
isn't going to hurt anything!
--
John H
John H
<gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:37:45 -0500, Rob <R...@getgmail00.com> wrote:
>
>>Personal property that is in for repair is always released
>>prior to the auction
>
>Only so far as it is "free and clear." A less than honest mechanic can
>create a very convincing labor lien based on services not performed.
>
>If he is *really* clever he knows how to perfect a labor lien... if
>not, he'll threaten and cajole. Your MilkToast position would make you
>ripe for picking......... man up, dude......
>
>again..... this isn't opinion.... I have battle scars....
I'm glad you two had this discussion. It lets me know my initial
inclination was correct - to cut the damn lock and take the boat home.
You know, I'm wondering now if the guy felt threatened by the bolt
cutter I was carrying. That damn thing had three foot handles.
--
John H
John H
>John H wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene
>> <gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>>> <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "John H"<salmo...@gmail.dotcom> wrote in message
>>>> news:cmjog5pf3q1n5mf5n...@4ax.com...
>>>>> Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything.
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> John H
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the
>>>> bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with
>>>> trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what
>>>> else.
>>>
>>> Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR
>>> the best approach.
>>>
>>> To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand.
>>> You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying
>>> obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best.
>>>
>>> When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks
>>> forgiveness, NOT permission.....
>>
>> I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much
>> better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was
>> in *my* driveway.
>>
>> They would have had the keys, but I could get more made.
>
>In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under
>bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long.
>
>Rob
No, if the guy hadn't been there to unlock the hitch lock, I'd have
cut off the lock and brought it home.
--
John H
John H
<gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:13:15 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
><nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"Gene" <gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote in message
>>news:lb0pg5tgotbjppbkf...@4ax.com...
>>> You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to sue
>>> for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a
>>> claim on HIS boat.....
>>>
>>> Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing"
>>> his own property, I think not....
>>
>>
>>You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would
>>for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the
>>charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.
>
>We'll let me assure you this..... having been there? I'll be wrong,
>take my chances.... and feel very sure that I'll be fine.....
Now you see why I can pay no attention to her vacuous, space-cadet
responses.
--
John H
John H
>> Let point to why I think you are wrong:
>>
>> "In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's
>> property without that person's freely-given consent."
>>
>> Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft!
>
>The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area.
>
>Rob
No it wasn't. The area it was in was not fenced or locked. It was
behind the back row of a strip mall. That was one of my worries, that
the boat could be pilfered.
I wouldn't have had to break into anything to get it.
--
John H
John H
>Wrong - unless the law varies by state (I don't believe it does). I've
>witnessed this first-hand. There is a designated time frame where the
>owners of property that is in for repair can claim it, and take it, with
>proper documentation.
>
>Rob
I had the title with me, just in case.
--
John H
Don White
"John H" <salmo...@gmail.dotcom> wrote in message
Yup...Uncle Sam has always taken good care of you and what thanks does he
receive in return???
John H
Damn. I can't believe y'all stayed up until 1:45 AM arguing
(discussing) my boat problems.
If I'd been here, I could have corrected a couple assumptions. I would
not have 'broken and entered' anyplace. The boat was accessible to the
public, if the public drove behind the shop. No gate, no chain, no
nothing. The only thing preventing the removal of the boat was a
Master padlock on the hitch, which I was about to cut.
I suppose, if a cop had come by, he could have hassled me. That's why
I took the title of the boat with me, and the extra set of keys. I
don't think the cop would have said much.
I find it hard to believe that *anyone* would waste time discussing
this issue with the Plum. WAFJ!
--
John H
John H
>Good on you for getting your boat back.
>Bad on you for taking yourself so damn long.
>You're lucky you got it back at all, as in that much time, it could have
>floated out of there, never to be seen again.
>A good deed to those people who were losing their business, yet had enough
>decency not to sell your boat for parts to the first scavenger who came
>along.
>
>Steve
>
I'm just a nice guy who believes in supporting the local economy.
--
John H
John H
<desert...@dishmail.net> wrote:
>
>"Don White" <whi...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote
>
>>
>> Read that manual and winterize it yourself.......
>> oh wait...you don't read manuals.
>
>Probably doesn't have the thirty minutes it takes to "winterize".
>
>Steve
>
Explained above, although the little guy has no business commenting on
it.
He should be spending his time in a worthwhile engagement, like this:
Maybe he could get the Plum to join him.
--
John H
Don White
"John H" <salmo...@gmail.dotcom> wrote in message
Well this is a different scenario that we were led to believe.
In this case I would have gone in and recovered my property too...assuming
it was on 'common tenant ground' behind a mall.
I'd claim they abandoned it.
Don White
So.. Kalif Swill advocates lying to the police.
That's a good way to get yourself shoved down a staircase....right Snotty?
H the K
So...there's no chance herring might be arrested? Too bad.
--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.
Jim
>>
>>> "Gene" <gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote in message
>>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>>>>
>>>>> "John H" <salmo...@gmail.dotcom> wrote in message
>>>
>>> No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they
>>> sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.
>> Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
>> with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.
>>
>> Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
>> attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
>> action available to him.
>>
>> Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
>> "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.
>>
>> Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
>> proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......
>
> Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to
> take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.
The plum's advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.
Jim
> In article <1r6pg5977ohuc9p4p...@4ax.com>,
> gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net says...
>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:22:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>> <nom=d...@plume.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> "Gene" <gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> DA: Did you or did you not enter SoSo's property without permission?
>>> DA: Non-responsive. Would the court please direct the witness to answer the
>>> question.
>>> Judge: Answer the question.
>>> DA: Did you damage SoSo's property in the act of removing the boat from said
>>> property?
>>> DA: Non-responsive. Would the court please direct the witness to answer the
>>> question.
>>> Judge: Answer the question.
>>> Gene: Yes.
>>
>> Your version? Screwed up!
>
> "I don't recall" works pretty good too, unless there is a willing eye
> witness or film.
The plum spends her entire miserable life dreaming up ridiculous scenarios.
Jim
> On Nov 24, 11:39 pm, "nom=de=plume" <nom...@plume.invalid> wrote:
>> "I am Tosk" <justwaitafrekinmin...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:MPG.257678c8d...@eternal-september.org...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> In article <3c1pg595khdir0lrcce7ntta1pte65i...@4ax.com>,
>>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>>>>> "Gene" <gene.boat...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:2ksog59uigvdmlrfv...@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
>>>>>>> "John H" <salmonb...@gmail.dotcom> wrote in message
>>>>> No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while
>>>>> they
>>>>> sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc.
>>>> Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and
>>>> with knowledge of the law) was really stupid.
>>>> Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of
>>>> attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of
>>>> action available to him.
>>>> Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for
>>>> "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title.
>>>> Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without
>>>> proof? Try me, I'll have your ass......
>>> take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all.
>> said lock.
>>
>> --
>> Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Uh, what lock?
>
Ridiculous scenario, remember?
Jim
This plume character is getting dippier by the minute.
Jim
> "Gene" <gene.b...@tranquilrefuge.net> wrote in message
>> It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are
>> enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
>> -Thomas Sowell
Thomas Sowell must have been aquainted with Em, AKA Nom-Duh-Plume.
Jim
clothing over the internet for a living. If she is the advocate of the
down trodden, that she says she is, she would be walking the streets
handing out the stuff to those that need it.
Jim
Exactly.
Bill, You sure do have your share of quacks over in the Quake state and
"thereabouts". (Can't leave out JPS)
Jim
When it comes time to DIY be sure to consult with Donnie and the Plum.
Donny has a little rope pull kicker and the plum once owned half
interest in a 14 ft hobie.
Glad you got your boat back without undue problems.
John H
No, it was their lock. But, your statement stands. Dippier is a good
description. A real lippy, dippy lib.
--
John H
Eisboch
news:4tqdnZKqVZnc45HW...@giganews.com...
>
> If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to
> the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are
> out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If they
> have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy court can
> attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust.
>
> Rob - Been there, different circumstances.
It depends on what you consider to be "quickly". In many cases a
Chapter 7 filing ... voluntary or involuntary ... results in all the assets
and property (owned by the business or not) being held until the bankruptcy
court
plows through all the records. It can take months.
I had a similar experience to John's a few years back in Florida.
I had a Scout stored at a boat yard storage and repair place.
The bank called a note on them and they were forced into
Chapter 7. There was no direct notice to those of us with boats at
the yard.
Similar to John, I became suspicious when I could no longer contact
them. I took a ride to the yard only to find it locked up with a steel gate
that was padlocked. I sat there for a while in my truck and noticed a van
pull up, unlock the gate and pulled into the yard. I quickly pulled up
behind him and entered as well.
The guy in the van got out and started yelling at me that they were
"closed".
By this time the situation was clear in my mind, so I pulled my truck around
him and backed it up to my boat and trailer. Told him I was taking my
boat.
He said I couldn't .. they were "bankrupt" and everything in the yard had
been
frozen by the court.
He ran into the building to call somebody.
Meanwhile, I noticed that the trailer had a flat tire. Another guy came
out
and helped me put a little air in the tire and he then got the keys to the
van
and moved it. Apparently he didn't realize what was going on.
I dragged the boat/trailer out of the yard to the nearest gas station to
fill up the
tire and then headed home. Checked the local "legal notices" for the town
and discovered they were in bankruptcy. Never heard from them again.
Eisboch
John H
Thanks, and I'll be sure to do that. I think, between them, they've
got all the sense God gave one goose - and a Canada goose at that.
--
John H
John H
wrote:
Good move. I think there's something to that 'possession is
nine-tenths' bit.
Anyway, I feel much better having the boat back under my control.
And, glad to see you're still alive and kicking. How's the shop? From
your web site it appears to be doing well. I know nothing of guitars,
so don't stick my head in your door.
Hope you have a great Thanksgiving and that all are well.
--
John H
Don White
"Jim" <??@**.com> wrote in message
news:007e7db0$0$7067$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
You're half right...which is better than usual.
I do own a 1954/55 British Seagull 40 Plus that requires a starter rope to
be wound around the flywheel.
On my Princecraft Yukon I'm all electric start...... both the 25hp Johnson
and the Minn Kota.
Don White
"H the K" <naled...@mypacks.net> wrote in message
news:7n4o6uF...@mid.individual.net...
Can you imagine him locked up behind bars? All his crying & whinning would
drive the cops foolish.
Maybe they could put him to work in the galley...baking muffins for the
other prisoners.
i am Tosk
salmo...@gmail.dotcom says...
> >
> >
>
> Good move. I think there's something to that 'possession is
> nine-tenths' bit.
>
> Anyway, I feel much better having the boat back under my control.
>
> And, glad to see you're still alive and kicking. How's the shop? From
> your web site it appears to be doing well. I know nothing of guitars,
> so don't stick my head in your door.
>
> Hope you have a great Thanksgiving and that all are well.
Yeah, on Dec. 5 Tom and I are going up to the shop and I am gonna' have
my special guitar looked at. Might need a neck tweak!
I didn't cut my hair, and I ain't giving up my hat, so I may have to
drive myself;) Well, I do have a newer hat I may consider, but it's not
broke in yet (not smelly yet)