Photographing whitewater Question
Ranger Rob :)X
partners. I'm using a 35mm without a polorizer. So far I get OK
results. However, I'm always looking to improve, so for those of you
who shoot a lot of whitewater kayaking action. What film speed and f
stop settings do you use?
I usually shoot with 200 speed film at 250th of a second with an F stop
setting that is an average of the entire scens, not just the water.
This doesn't always work cuz I like to see detail in the water. In
fater moving-splashier water it just goes completely white with no
detail at all. So, lately I'm using the F stop setting closer to what
the water needs. Now the people and the background are darker then I'd
like. Should I use a polorizer to keep the detail instead of adjusting
the F stop? Shoot it at a faster speed? Different film? What do you do?
Any pointers would be appreicated!
Paddle Safe! -- Ranger Rob :)X
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Nace
exposing for any single feature in the scene, you should be exposing for
the amount of light that hits the part of the scene where the boat is.
There are several ways to do that. Often there will be a light gray rock
that's a medium gray so you can meter that rock and zero your meter, or if
you can get the palm of your hand in the same light as the boat assuming
you're a reasonably normally toned caucasian you can meter the palm of you
hand set your f-stop to make the meter read +1, if there are white pines
meter them and make the meter read -1, regular pines -4/3, green deciduous
leaves -5/3, if the whitewater itself is all you have to meter, set your
f-stop to make the meter read about +2. If you go to the camera store and
buy an 18% gray card and keep it with you, can learn the relationship
between all the rocks and trees and dirt and grass and water that you
might encounter in your area and the medium tone that your meter tries to
tell you to make everything.
1/250 is okay, but 1/500 will do a much more consistent job stopping the
water still, and I think 200 speed film is okay but 400 speed will do a
much better all around job and will work well in overcast light or shadows
where 200 speed might not . I think the perfect film for kayaking shots is
Fuji NPH. NPH (400) and NPS (160) are designed for caucasian weddings.
What that means is they have subtle reds and low contrast. That helps in
two ways. The gentle reds make pleasing skin tones for any close-ups you
get, and the gentle contrast means you can get your middle tones just
right without trees or rocks going black or water blowing out featureless
white. If you're losing texture in the water that would likely mean you're
using bad film or getting bad processing. Good modern color print film
should hold a little more than a four stop range and that would include
bubbling white water on the bright end and tree trunks in subdued light on
the other end. As I'm sure Julie will tell you, with slide film it would
be alot tougher.
With 400 speed film and pretty light (10ish AM & 4ish PM) this time of
year, you should be able to shoot at 1/500 and about an f11/16 split.
1/500 will freeze water splashes and 11/16 will give you a real deep focus
throughout the scene. Faster color print films have improved much more
than slide films, so good modern 400 speed color print films like NPH,
give a nice fine grain and enlarge very well. In an 8x10 print, you'd have
to have a pretty good eye to tell the difference between a good 400 spd
film and 200 spd.
Take your film somewhere to be processed where the chemicals get changed
often. Drugstores and the like, where they stretch the life of their
processing solutions, will sometimes give you back a muddy looking or
contrasty print, and that could definitely make the detail problem in the
water you mentioned worse.
Hope that helps.
Oh, yeah, I wouldn't normally use a polarizer for whitewater action shots,
especially if you shoot early and late when the light is soft an pretty.
Nace
Don Shreve
I'm sure you've noticed if you look at the surface of the water as you
rotate it. It also deepens the apparent contrast of a scene. It will do
nothing to equalize the values between the highlights & shadows. Probably,
it will do just the opposite. So, if detail in the bright areas simultaneous
with helmet-shadowed faces is your goal, you might want to skip the
polarizer. This will also give you about 2 more stops of brightness to work
with. Polarizers help make nice, deep saturated colors, however, in some
situations.
The type of film you use & who processes it is another big variable.
Print film is more forgiving, & the general rule is to expose for the
shadows & print for the highlights.
If you're using slide film, it won't tolerate much overexposure without
blowing out the light areas, so stick with the average on the meter, maybe
bracket 1/2 stop to the brighter side. Fuji Astia is a good low-contrast
film that carries a good balance for skin tones.
We "professional" types try to equalize the shadow areas with the bright
areas by using fill flash whenever that's an option, but that doesn't really
apply here.
The last advice is to not expect a good result in the situations you
described on a sunny day shooting into a backlit situation. Just enjoy the
paddling & wait for a nice, flat, overcast day. Or you could use the old
Kodak Brownie instructions- "Always shoot with the sun at your back".
(P.S.- I'm a commercial photographer, & have had 20 years experience in the
photographic industry..Hope this helps..good luck!) Don Shreve
Bill Tuthill
> Hi Everyone! Recently I've become MR PHOTO on trips with my paddling
> partners. I'm using a 35mm without a polorizer. So far I get OK
> results. However, I'm always looking to improve, so for those of you
> who shoot a lot of whitewater kayaking action. What film speed and f
> stop settings do you use?
I just set the "idiot" mode for Sports on my camera. When I have time
to actually look at the settings, shutter speed is often around 1/750.
> I usually shoot with 200 speed film at 250th of a second with an F stop
> setting that is an average of the entire scens, not just the water.
There you go, 200 speed print film is a waste of time. The 400 speed
films have better resolution and finer grain, and give you one stop
more to freeze action. Kodak Supra 400 is definitely worth trying.
Currently I use mostly Supra 800 rated at 640.
For making 20x30 enlargements, Fuji Reala is worthwhile, being perhaps
the finest grained 100 speed film available.
> This doesn't always work cuz I like to see detail in the water. In
> fater moving-splashier water it just goes completely white with no
> detail at all. So, lately I'm using the F stop setting closer to what
> the water needs. Now the people and the background are darker then I'd
> like. Should I use a polorizer to keep the detail instead of adjusting
> the F stop? Shoot it at a faster speed? Different film? What do you do?
Could be that your film shows detail in the whitewater, but the prints
do not. That's something that can only be solved with digital imaging
(reduce contrast, print on an Epson inkjet). However lower contrast
paper, such as Agfa Prestige instead of Kodak/Fuji papers, might help.
Supra 800 also holds more shadow and highlight detail simultaneously
than most (all?) other films.
A polarizer will help if you are shooting into the sun, or at about
90 degrees to the sun. It won't help if the sun is behind your back.
A graduated neutral gradient filter might help, but they are cumbersome.
Bill Tuthill
> ... I think the perfect film for kayaking shots is
> Fuji NPH. NPH (400) and NPS (160) are designed for caucasian weddings.
NPH is not a low, but a medium contrast film, and is best shot at EI 200
or 250 to reduce grain and increase saturation. I have respect for NPH's
neutrality and flexibility, but Supra 800 shot at EI 640 is finer grained
than NPH shot at EI 320, and a whole stop faster.
Supra 400 has finer grain than NPS, in my opinion. NPS is a low contrast
film, but that also means it is low saturation. Colors aren't vibrant.
I wouldn't recommend NPS for anything but portraits and wedding photos.
Glen Bolen
> snip... Should I use a polorizer to keep the detail instead of adjusting
> the F stop? Shoot it at a faster speed? Different film? What do you do?
snip
You have received much good advice from a few photographers here. However,
for boating conditions you have to think more like a news photographer than
an artist. I also highly doubt that many paddlers are buying professional
film.
Here's my .02 worth of practical advice:
Use readily available film, and don't use an art studio for developing.
The reason I say this is that when shooting action shots, only a small
percentage will be true keepers. eg. when working as a news photographer I
would easily spend 5 rolls of film for one shot. Save money where you can.
I've had great luck with Kodak 400 Max lately. I leave a roll in an old
olympus point and shoot ,that sits next to my rowing seat (yes, I'm a
rafter, and get this, drift boater too). I use this film in my Canon Eos
as well. 200 has poor grain, most pro's completely avoid 200 film. The
faster, 400 film will allow you to close the aperture more for any given
shutter speed. The more closed the aperture, the better the chance of
getting your subject in focus (depth of field). On very sunny days,
without many shadows, I use 100 asa, but 400 is very safe.
Get close to your subject. On a river this can be tough, so, get a longer
lens. My best whitewater shots were taken using a zoom lens. A 75-300
zoom is very handy. Make your subject fill the frame, we've all taken
those shots of a big river where our boats are hard to see. It's also fun
to experiment with taking face shots with your zoom. Your friends have no
idea of the faces they make before swimming.
Shoot a fast shutter speed. Use a shutter speed of around 1000. It will
stop the action, including the water, and also make up for any camera shake
caused by excitement, fear, or just the zoom lens.
Don't worry about filters. They are nice, but take some work to use well.
A polarizing filter is great for scenery shots on the water, but not
necessary for action stuff.
Pay attention to the light. As has been mentioned, keep the light behind
you as much as possible. If you are concerned about losing detail to
unavoidable shadows, try to overexpose a little (one stop). Modern films
won't be harmed by a little overexposure. When in doubt overexpose.
Shoot lots of film.
The above advice is intended for the novice photographer who want to
capture a trip, not a professional, for whom the picture taking is the
trip. Pro's will keep journals, use expensive film, cameras, meters,
filters........ They obviously take better pictures than the novices, but
hey, that's why they are pro's.
Good luck,
Glen
Dan
that I read it.
One thing I notice is that you sometimes get the problem of the exposure
being wrong (underexposed) because the background is all white that you
always get in the snow.
This is a simple explanation that reflects my simple understanding. The
white background reflects more than the camera expects, so the meter thinks
the scene is brighter than it really is. You get the whitewater/snow being
gray and the subject being too dark or all black because the photo is
underexposed.
Counter this (depending what kind of camera you have) by either taking an
exposure reading in a place that is lighted like the place but isn't all
white (or all black) and use it (and ask yourself why you have a camera that
will do this on the river), compose the scene so the center/bottom of the
photo (where the meter reads from) isn't all white or all black
(autoexposure camera), or turn up the exposure (camera with some kind of
manual exposure control).
A little overexposure doesn't really hurt as much as a little underexposure.
Real pros carry special gray cards that reflects just amount the camera
expects to get the exposure perfect.
I definitely second the "take a lot of pictures to get some great ones"
stated in the other post.
--Dan
"Glen Bolen" <gl...@NOSPAM.frego.com> wrote in message
news:3A899094...@NOSPAM.frego.com...
Gregg Silk
level. It looks much more impressive when the low perspective shows just how
tall the waves really are.
Bill Tuthill
Amen, brother!
Another truism is that a close-in shot of a hardshell kayaker looks the same
whether you are in a class II rapid on South Fork of the American, or in a
class V rapid on the Zambezi River. Bigger boats are more photogenic.
And don't forget Julie Keller's famous dictum that gray boats are boring.