NEW THREAD, IS LOST BOAT SALVAGE?
Daniel B.
numbers, then salvage becomes stealing from your friends.
--
______________________________________________________________
turb...@cluck.com Jugglers do it 'till they drop.
(214) 212-5961 Did your Grandma give you chicken
jokes when you were sick?
Chip Mefford
Chip Mefford
says...
will be a fisherman. Unless the fisherman likes boaters, and many do
not, and for good reason, than friend ship does not enter into it.
I did not ask if it was moral to keep a found boat, I asked if it was
ethical. This has nothing to do with making a value judgement. I am
simply asking, who is the owner, the looser or the finder?
As I stated, It was put to me that by "abandoning my ship" I had
defaulted on ownership. I had to concurr, cause while I am sure that
had
I protested to the authorities, i would surely have gotten the boat
back, and stirred hard feelings, it was much easier I thought to
conceed
the salvage issue and swap for beer, making a friend instead of an
enemy.
I think it was King George that started the "salvage in territorial
waters" bullshit, but I may be wrong, whoever started it was full of
crap however, because from time immemoriable, what is taken by the
water
was held as an act of God, and whoever retrives it from God, is given
title by God, and no man would argue it.
Gary J. Mac Donald
Daniel B. (turb...@cyberramp.net) writes:
> If there is any way to identify the owner, and most boats do carry serial
> numbers, then salvage becomes stealing from your friends.
Well, let's look at it as if it were salvage on the high seas.
1. The ship remains the property of the owner, or the insurance
company if it compensated the owner.
This would seem to apply clearly inland as well.
2. The salvor can be compensated according to the contract with the
owner: i.e. a fee for service, or according to Lloyds Open Form. this is
the standard salvage contract, and is often agreed to by radio, since
everyone knows what it says. Its essence is "No Cure No Pay" and the
amount is determined later when reports are compared and an adjudicator
determines what the value of the work done by the salvor is worth. This
can make salvage very lucrative, since the dangers and the value of the
derelict are taken into account.
3. I do not know what happens if a tug finds an abandonned ship on
the high seas and tows it in, but I suspect it would be a retroactive
Lloyds contract, or something close.
Therefore:
If you recover a lost/broken boat in the woods, and take it out, it
belongs to the owner. that seems very clear. There is no such thing as
finders-keepers. If there were, then all car thefts would be legal since
the car is "abandonned" on the street or wherever. On the other hand, you
have a case for salvage of the canoe and should be compensated. The
question is how much. The owner may decide to let you have the boat
instead, but that is an individual decision.
(The original post did not appear on my site, just a subject loine.)
GaryJ
--
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ar075
It is incredible that authorities will censor anything about making love,
while doing nothing about the 1001 ways to kill and maim that the media
teaches every day. Which is truly obscene: sex or murder?
RDBass
writes:
>>
>>If there is any way to identify the owner, and most boats do carry
>serial
>>numbers, then salvage becomes stealing from your friends.
>>--
If a boat is abandoned without the intention of retreival, the finder can
petition in admiralty court for title. If a boat is abandoned for safety
reasons with the intention of later retrieval, a salvor con petition in
admiralty court for a salvage award, usually a percentage of the boats
value and based on difficulty of salvage, risk to life, etc. Just taking
a boat that is found on the high seas is theft.
Roger Bass
Marine Surveyor
Gene & Jayne
> In article <4fvllv$4...@newshost.cyberramp.net>, turb...@cyberramp.net
> says...
> >
> >If there is any way to identify the owner, and most boats do carry
> serial
> >numbers, then salvage becomes stealing from your friends.
> >--
> >______________________________________________________________
> >turb...@cluck.com Jugglers do it 'till they drop.
> >(214) 212-5961 Did your Grandma give you chicken
> > jokes when you were sick?
>
> I think it was King George that started the "salvage in territorial
> waters" bullshit, but I may be wrong, whoever started it was full of
> crap however, because from time immemoriable, what is taken by the
> water
> was held as an act of God, and whoever retrives it from God, is given
> title by God, and no man would argue it.
b------t if you find a drifting boat you tie it to the shore and report it
to the authorities. It's the law here.It's common sense anyway,a body
might go with the boat.
gene
Chip Mefford
>
>>>
>>>If there is any way to identify the owner, and most boats do carry
>>serial
>>>numbers, then salvage becomes stealing from your friends.
>>>--
>
>petition in admiralty court for title. If a boat is abandoned for safety
>reasons with the intention of later retrieval, a salvor con petition in
>admiralty court for a salvage award, usually a percentage of the boats
>value and based on difficulty of salvage, risk to life, etc. Just taking
>a boat that is found on the high seas is theft.
>
>Roger Bass
>Marine Surveyor
Roger;
Thanx for a great clarification, I know this has little to do with
creeks and canoes, but I have always wondered what the rules on salvage are.
That makes so much sense, I can hardly belive its true.
again;
thanx,
chipper
Chip Mefford
>
>By the by, it looks like my original posting never made it for some
reason or another;
Basicly It went like this;
Once opon a time, on a river far far away.
I lost my boat on the Savage River in Md. A few hours later after
abandoning the search for it, I spotted it in the back of a fellars
pick up truck outside a convience store in Westernport Md, just down
stream. I waited on the feller, when he showed I said he had my boat,
he said it was his boat 'cause it was salvage.
I choose not to belabour the point and conceeded his claim and
offered to swap him a case of beer. He choose not to dicker and I think
he pretty much knew his case was weak so he went for the beer. Since I
helped him and his buddies drink the beer, I didn't feel cheated at
all.
But the question has haunted me since.
Thanks for all the input.
>
Scott Weiser
I believe that the marine salvage laws only apply on "navigable waters
of the United States" (including the high seas or tidal waters) which are
subject to admiralty jurisdiction. In other places, such as Colorado,
state "lost property" rules would apply. The finder must report the
found item to the police or court clerk, and if the item is valued at
over $100 (in Colorado), leave it with the authorities, who will
advertise for the owner. If less than $100, the finder can keep custody
of the item, but must still report it to the court clerk, who should
advertise for the owner. Items left unclaimed after a specified period,
the item can be claimed by the finder.
Usually, however, the police just keep the items and sell them at auction
several times a year. This is questionable according to law, since the
finders should be notified first to see if they want the item, but rarely
are.
--
Regards,
Scott Weiser
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Keith Beck
>In article <4fuqdn$c...@news.icanect.net>, c...@icanect.net says...
>>
>>By the by, it looks like my original posting never made it for some
>reason or another;
>
>Basicly It went like this;
>
>Once opon a time, on a river far far away.
>
>I lost my boat on the Savage River in Md.
snip snip
Couln't resist my Savage R. story, and would welcome comments on this
wrinkle.
In about 1975 or 76 my brother and I were OC-1'ing down the Savage at a
pretty good race release. We made it through the race course area just
fine, but Jon got swamped in that area where you make a hard right over a
ledge and there is a midstream rock. His boat was stably and safely
sunk against the bank, and with the bowline snagged on a rock--VERY
stable, and his plan was to sit it out until the release was over. Some
other guys came along and tried to get the boat off, against his wishes.
Their efforts to "salvage" the boat caused it to go on downstream, where
it wrapped and was destroyed (noting the dates above, you can accurately
guess that it was a 17" Grumman). What does salvage law say about this
one?
>>
>
Jimisnyder
for". But that was before throw bags wasn't it? Why didn't he sit there
on shore for the 2-3 hrs. as he would need his river clothes on to salvage
anyways? Was it cold? The rescuers were lame by any account and possibly
had salvor intentions. I hope they got cold and tired at least. I
could just hear them now, "Oh boy, river booty!!!"
Wreckless rowmance, Jim bob
samuel heinrich
> As I stated, It was put to me that by "abandoning my ship" I had
>defaulted on ownership. I had to concurr
A serial number on the boat hull should prove ownership unless the
boat was truly abandonded. There is a difference between losing and
abandoning.
>
> I think it was King George that started the "salvage in territorial
>waters" bullshit, but I may be wrong, whoever started it was full of
>crap however, because from time immemoriable, what is taken by the
About as reasonable as a state personal property tax. Not reasonable.
Sam Heinrich opionions my own
Paul Steinert /ADVISOR Liu
: In article <4fvtg5$k...@news.icanect.net>,
: c...@icanect.net (Chip Mefford) writes:
: > As I stated, It was put to me that by "abandoning my ship" I had
: >defaulted on ownership. I had to concurr
: A serial number on the boat hull should prove ownership unless the
: boat was truly abandonded. There is a difference between losing and
: abandoning.
:
: I have some experience in this area, If a boat has been apparently
: abandoned in a certain location the best proceedures are;
:
: 1. call marine patrol and have them do verification in the site
: 2. write a letter/ call to DMV and attempt to find the previous
: owner through title records (assumeing VIN can be found)
: 3. apply for lost title or title transfer based on 2.
:
: good luck!
:
: : >
: > I think it was King George that started the "salvage in territorial
Douglas Purl
> I think it was King George that started the "salvage in territorial
> waters" bullshit, but I may be wrong, whoever started it was full of
> crap however, because from time immemoriable, what is taken by the
> water was held as an act of God, and whoever retrives it from God,
> is given title by God, and no man would argue it.
Let us say I find your woman lost, alone, and swimming.
Doug Purl
PEGGY SHAW
the owner of the boat (hopefully ;not still in the river!) I think its
just because we're playing internet, not right there at the scene - i
truly think if any of us found the boat at the river - we woud first
worry about the paddler that was in the boat.
I agree with the finder/keepers being b.s.; here you must report it to
police, and after some paperwork and wait, some determination is made
(not sure if any dollar amount is the discriminator). But i would like
to think that (here we go again) fire and rescue would like to know
about such a circumstance.
Oh, may i go off on a thread from this, please (cant enter a new
message); - today, my truck license registration renewal form said,
that in Maryland there is an additional $8.00 per year i believe, it is
now a 2-year tag, is being charged to pay for emergency medical service.
These are the same people that support the boaters....
Thought you would like to know.
Brian Wendt
Your conclusion may be correct, assuming you can hold title to "your
woman".