Has anyone purchased a boat through Stuart Yacht Sales
paleonuts
requiring that we pay with either Cash or wire transfer the funds prior to
closing (rather than pay with Cashiers check). Most replies to my previous
post thought the deal smelled. I'd love to hear from anyone else that has
had dealilngs with Stuart Yacht Sales.
They appear to be a reputable firm (at least they've been there for a while)
but this payment requirment has us feeling very uneasy. Closing is set for
this Friday.
Sandy
David Smalley
Well Sandy,
You appear to be someone on the way to getting screwed. If you proceed
to deal with this broker I predict you will loose lots of money.
There are lots of boats for sale. This one is not "the perfect boat"
because you are dealing with a thief.
Thanks for letting us know who not to do business with.
Jpwvoymar
my client to present the final money until we have both re-inspected the
vessel, gone over every detail of the paperwork and answered any questions he
may have. Once the client is completely satisfied with the boat, the terms (if
any) etc. then I will expect a cashiers check. At that time I will give him a
completed "Buyers Closing Statement" which details where all the money which
has changed hands (deposit, etc.) has gone and how it will be disbursed (e.g.
to pay off the seller's loan). I want my transactions to be win-win-win and
don't want anything to bite me in the butt. Cheers Cap'n Jon
Karl Denninger
That's the proper and professional way do handle ANY sale of this type.
--
--
Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Web: http://childrens-justice.org
Isn't it time we started putting KIDS first? See the above URL for
a plan to do exactly that!
Karl Klingman
paleonuts wrote:
> We're buying a boat through Stuart Yacht Sales (Stuart, Fla) and they are
> requiring that we pay with either Cash or wire transfer the funds prior to
> closing (rather than pay with Cashiers check). Most replies to my previous
> post thought the deal smelled. I'd love to hear from anyone else that has
> had dealilngs with Stuart Yacht Sales.
>
> They appear to be a reputable firm (at least they've been there for a while)
> but this payment requirment has us feeling very uneasy. Closing is set for
> this Friday.
>
> Sandy
First, I don't know anything about Stuart Yacht Sails, but.... I'll just add
one thing to the good advice everyone else has offered -- and it appears to be
unanimous.
There was a "reputable" firm near here that had been in business for quite a few
years. The broker apparently got into some financial difficulties and he ended
up 1) keeping the money (cash) on some of the boats he sold then claiming to the
sellers that the purchaser hadn't paid or their check had bounced and yadda
yadda yadda. 2) selling the same boat more than once, etc. He did get caught
rather quickly, but oh what a mess he made before he did. Some people possessed
boats for which they had paid, yet the purchaser never got the money. Some
people had paid for a boat while someone else had also. Can you imagine trying
to get that all straightened out in the courts? And of course, no one got their
money back because the broker had already spent it.
I wouldn't touch a deal like the one you describe with a ten foot pole. Unless
you're buying a really old Sunfish, don't let any cash out of your hands until
you've got clear title in yours and I do mean CLEAR title. Don't learn the hard
way.
Karl
S/V Renegade
Joe Della Barba
<pale...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>We're buying a boat through Stuart Yacht Sales (Stuart, Fla) and they are
>requiring that we pay with either Cash or wire transfer the funds prior to
>closing (rather than pay with Cashiers check). Most replies to my previous
>post thought the deal smelled. I'd love to hear from anyone else that has
>had dealilngs with Stuart Yacht Sales.
>
>They appear to be a reputable firm (at least they've been there for a while)
>but this payment requirment has us feeling very uneasy. Closing is set for
>this Friday.
>
>Sandy
>
>
>
>
AOPA offers escrow service for airplane purchases. See if you can find
something like it for boats. Also - DO NOT BUY from that
dealer!!!!!!!!
paleonuts
Just to be completely fair, I forgot to add that they WILL accept a cashiers
check but that it must be in their hands 3 days before closing (to allow the
cashiers check to clear).
I also want to add that we spoke to an officer at our bank and found that
cashiers check are not really the same as money and that it does take a
small amount of time to clear.
We also suggested to the broker that he call our bank (they know us well
there now) to verify that the cashiers check is valid and funds available,
but this was not acceptable to him.
We also suggested to the Broker that we bring travelers checks which he also
refused.
We really feel in limbo here....stuck between heaven (sailing) and hell. We
like the boat, we've already invested $$$ in survey & hauling costs (as well
as emotionally.....this boat is ours now, in our hearts), and even invested
a little in some repairs. I really don't think that the broker is a crook;
but I feel rather that they're being super-careful (but they're protecting
their asses 100 percent and leaving ours out in the cold)
Sandy
Eugene Gruender
If you happen to go ahead and go through with this deal, please report
back in a few weeks and let us know how it turned out.
There just has to be more to this story somewhere - it doesn't compute.
By the way, have you spoken to the seller about what is going on?
Possibly the problem is on his end.
Gene Gruender
Rainbow Chaser
Karl Denninger
paleonuts <pale...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>Just to be completely fair, I forgot to add that they WILL accept a cashiers
>check but that it must be in their hands 3 days before closing (to allow the
>cashiers check to clear).
>
>I also want to add that we spoke to an officer at our bank and found that
>cashiers check are not really the same as money and that it does take a
>small amount of time to clear.
>
>We also suggested to the broker that he call our bank (they know us well
>there now) to verify that the cashiers check is valid and funds available,
>but this was not acceptable to him.
>
>We also suggested to the Broker that we bring travelers checks which he also
>refused.
>
>We really feel in limbo here....stuck between heaven (sailing) and hell. We
>like the boat, we've already invested $$$ in survey & hauling costs (as well
>as emotionally.....this boat is ours now, in our hearts), and even invested
>a little in some repairs. I really don't think that the broker is a crook;
>but I feel rather that they're being super-careful (but they're protecting
>their asses 100 percent and leaving ours out in the cold)
>
>
>Sandy
He is a crook and he's lying to you.
First, a cashier's check does not take 3 days to clear. It takes 10 minutes
to clear. You take it to the bank it was drawn on and have a BANK CHECK
(which *IS* money) drawn to whoever, or deposit it (funds available next
day) in an account that you open on the spot if you'd like, or take it to
the window and exchange it for a suitcase of money.
There is no FUNDS AVAILABLE issue. Either the check is authentic or it is
not. If it is then it is. If it is not then it is not. If the cashier's
check is drawn on a local institution then it can be turned into dollar
bills in about 10 minutes by driving over there and doing so.
There is a lesson in all of this for you Sandy:
1. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER invest anything in a purchase until you have a
signed contract which specifies, among other things, mutually-agreed
upon forms of payment at closing.
2. If a deal starts to smell at ANY time before closing, DO NOT GO
THROUGH WITH IT. Any material breach of the agreement(s) you reach
is cause to walk away, and you're a fool if you don't avail yourself
of it.
I wouldn't deal with this business for all the tea in China under these
conditions. You have to make up your own mind, but you've had a dozen
opinions here and every one of them has been "run like hell!"
Eugene Gruender
I'm curious. Do you have a deposit on this boat? It's normal to put
down 10% when you make the offer, it's then put into escrow (which may
just be the brokers bank account). The contracts I've read usually give
the broker 10% commission from the sale. If the deposit is forfeited,
they split it 50 - 50. Is there a chance they (either the seller or
broker) are trying to get you to walk away and forfeit your deposit?
Gene Gruender
Rainbow Chaser
Karl Denninger
They might be.
But this is yet another reason why you specify in your offer and in the
contract to purchase PRECISE DETAILS on things like this - such as
the form of closing payment.
You ALSO specify that any breach or attempted breach by the seller terminates
the contract and all escrowed monies AND INTEREST IT HAS EARNED are to be
refunded immediately. Basically, if they even attempt to jack you the
deal's off and you walk away whole.
If I was doing a deal like this on a "sizeable" boat (over $100k) I'd
probably also put a clause in there that a material breach by the seller
after the buyer had incurred expenses (ie: the survey) requires the
seller to compensate the buyer for all actually incurred expenses to
the point of termination, or entitles the buyer to demand specific
performance of the agreement (and enforce that by injunction if
necessary with seller being responsible for all costs in obtaining
same, including legal costs) at my option as buyer.
Finally, you demand separated escrow on any sizeable transaction in which
there will be real interest earned (more than a couple of bucks over the
life of the escrow).
If you're not negotiating these things up front then you're in trouble at
this point in a transaction such as this.
People who are dealing in good faith don't have a problem with clauses in a
contract requiring them to perform as agreed. People who might decide to
deal in bad faith usually do have a problem with these clauses, and you find
out right up front what kind of person you're working with by insisting that
they be in there.
I'm not even sure that the broker has the right to demand actual cash (dollar
bills) at closing or require payment to be made PRIOR to closing. I'd check
with a lawyer on this - I suspect that there may be a body of state law on
this, or something in the UCC that addresses it more precisely.
John Lane
and one who has negotiated a few contracts over the years, I can tell you
that as a matter of reality it is not always easy or practicable to
"negotiate" all those excellent terms into a deal. Lots of times, I mean
LOTS of times, parties start to get cold feet about dealing with someone AT
ALL when their lawyer is insisting on all kinds of complex terms for the
contract. Lots of people who deal in good faith, and who are entirely
honest, will (rightly or wrongly) regard such a person as apparently
litigious, as "just looking for trouble," or just as the type of person they
prefer not to deal with. A *good* lawyer understands these practical
realities, and can usually judge when to push and when not to. Many a deal
has been cratered - not because the parties to the deal didn't want it, or
couldn't reach agreement on basic terms - but because some overzealous
lawyer pushed too hard on "protections" that in the last analysis were
irrelevant. This little bit of simple, human reality should not be
forgotten.
Mark
Karl Denninger wrote
SAIL LOCO
up with everything (your protected because the bank will be checking it all
over). You can then pay him in any manner he wishes. He he dosen't go for
that.......walk away. There are too many boats for sale.
"Trains are a winter sport"
TK
Brilliant - do the deal at the bank - if they want cash then let them
walk out of the bank with cash. Just make sure you swing by the boat
on the way to the bank to make sure everything is legit and given your
concerns - It might be worth having an attorney review all the
paperwork and documentation to make sure the boat is free and clear.
You should also be sure that you are clear on who will pay the sales
tax. I don't know what the normal practice is where you're at, but
when I bought my boat, I paid the sales tax at closing and the broker
who sold it to me (who is a casual acquaintance whom I trust) was
responsible for paying the great state of Florida their 6% take. The
finance company insisted we do it this way.
Good Luck - I know this is tough - buying a boat is hard work and
having a deal fall through at the very end is extremely frustrating.
TK
Jim - SBSC
topic. Most times it's a veritable wordy slug-out, but not this time. We all
wish you the best, and to be out sailing soon, BUT... be real...
Ask other brokers how they handle the situation.
Better yet, hire an independent broker or attorney as a buying agent, and let
that person step in and conclude the deal ACTING IN YOUR BEST INTERESTS.
Also, the presale investment that you have in the boat may still be money well
spent.
If you decide not to buy from this broker, I wager the seller will soon have
the boat listed elsewhere.
It's a buyers market out there, dont rush in on your emotions.
Good luck.
Jim
>We really feel in limbo here....stuck between heaven (sailing) and hell. We
>like the boat, we've already invested $$$ in survey & hauling costs (as well
>as emotionally.....this boat is ours now, in our hearts), and even invested
>a little in some repairs. I really don't think that the broker is a crook;
>but I feel rather that they're being super-careful (but they're protecting
>their asses 100 percent and leaving ours out in the cold)
>
>
>Sandy
Visit the Southern Bay Sailing Club website:
http://hometown.aol.com/winchkid/myhomepage/sports.html
To reply to my postings, you must remove "NOSPAM" from my e-mail address.
Thomas Hood
typically a Seller's Agent. He has approximately NO vested interest in
making sure the deal is square. Unless he's the exception to the rule,
and actually is thinking past today.
Thomas Hood
th...@ifn.com
Karl Denninger wrote:
>
<snip>
> That would be fine with me as well, provided that I was satisified with
> the condition of the title (if its a documented boat this is not a big deal
> if the broker has done their homework; if its not a documented boat then
> it gets more complicated).
>
<snip>
Karl Denninger
SAIL LOCO <sail...@aol.com> wrote:
>Heres the way I did it. Do the settlement in the banks office. He has to show
>up with everything (your protected because the bank will be checking it all
>over). You can then pay him in any manner he wishes. He he dosen't go for
>that.......walk away. There are too many boats for sale.
>"Trains are a winter sport"
That would be fine with me as well, provided that I was satisified with
the condition of the title (if its a documented boat this is not a big deal
if the broker has done their homework; if its not a documented boat then
it gets more complicated).
That's really not any different though than doing a certified check from the
same bank, as long as the bank is local. The seller can take that check to
the bank and turn it into whatever they'd like, no hold required.
--
--
Jordan Bigel
hand over the cash until all the proper diligence has been performed.
One idea would be to hold the closing AT THE BANK! They'll
probably even be able to find a place for you to sit quietly while
you review the documents (preferably with a lawyer present if
you even suspect any problems). Then you can present them
with whatever form of payment they like, right on the spot.
One thing to keep in mind: "Never attribute to malice that which
can be explained by stupidity". Perhaps the seller is just paranoid?
He may not be a crook. Perhaps the broker is not a crook - perhaps
he is being forced make these restrictions because of the
seller's insistance.
If you really want this boat, get a lawyer and get it done.
J.
>paleonuts wrote:
>>
>> We're buying a boat through Stuart Yacht Sales (Stuart, Fla) and they are
>> requiring that we pay with either Cash or wire transfer the funds prior to
>> closing (rather than pay with Cashiers check). Most replies to my previous
>> post thought the deal smelled. I'd love to hear from anyone else that has
>> had dealilngs with Stuart Yacht Sales.
>>
>> They appear to be a reputable firm (at least they've been there for a while)
>> but this payment requirment has us feeling very uneasy. Closing is set for
>> this Friday.
>
Karl Denninger
transfer/sales tax) and no title in form acceptable to my lawyer = no closing.
These things for me are really very simple. Either the transaction is in
order or it is not. Until it is in order no money changes hands.
--
--
Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Web: http://childrens-justice.org
Isn't it time we started putting KIDS first? See the above URL for
a plan to do exactly that!
In article <3817370D...@ifn.com>, Thomas Hood <th...@ifn.com> wrote:
>What makes you think the broker will do his homework? The broker is
>typically a Seller's Agent. He has approximately NO vested interest in
>making sure the deal is square. Unless he's the exception to the rule,
>and actually is thinking past today.
>
>Thomas Hood
>th...@ifn.com
>
>Karl Denninger wrote:
>>
><snip>
>> That would be fine with me as well, provided that I was satisified with
>> the condition of the title (if its a documented boat this is not a big deal
>> if the broker has done their homework; if its not a documented boat then
>> it gets more complicated).
>>
><snip>
David Noss
an excellent reputation.
Either you're not telling the whole story or there is one major
misunderstanding.
paleonuts <pale...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:7v5foq$429g$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com...
> We're buying a boat through Stuart Yacht Sales (Stuart, Fla) and they are
> requiring that we pay with either Cash or wire transfer the funds prior to
> closing (rather than pay with Cashiers check). Most replies to my
previous
> post thought the deal smelled. I'd love to hear from anyone else that has
> had dealilngs with Stuart Yacht Sales.
>
> They appear to be a reputable firm (at least they've been there for a
while)
> but this payment requirment has us feeling very uneasy. Closing is set
for
> this Friday.
>
> Sandy
>
>
>
>
David Smalley
>
> Just to be completely fair, I forgot to add that they WILL accept a cashiers
> check but that it must be in their hands 3 days before closing (to allow the
> cashiers check to clear).
> a little in some repairs. I really don't think that the broker is a crook;
> but I feel rather that they're being super-careful (but they're protecting
> their asses 100 percent and leaving ours out in the cold)
Do you realize how childish and naive you sound?
If you are so stuck on consumating this very fishy deal why don't you
open an account in their bank and hold the closing there in the
manager's office so that the transaction can be "Instant"?
gc
you want is a third party to hold it in escrow along the terms you
agree to. This really ought to be the same lawyer who is advising you
on your contract.
Gregg
"paleonuts" <pale...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>Just to be completely fair, I forgot to add that they WILL accept a cashiers
>check but that it must be in their hands 3 days before closing (to allow the
>cashiers check to clear).
>
>I also want to add that we spoke to an officer at our bank and found that
>cashiers check are not really the same as money and that it does take a
>small amount of time to clear.
>
>We also suggested to the broker that he call our bank (they know us well
>there now) to verify that the cashiers check is valid and funds available,
>but this was not acceptable to him.
>
>We also suggested to the Broker that we bring travelers checks which he also
>refused.
>
>We really feel in limbo here....stuck between heaven (sailing) and hell. We
>like the boat, we've already invested $$$ in survey & hauling costs (as well
>as emotionally.....this boat is ours now, in our hearts), and even invested
>a little in some repairs. I really don't think that the broker is a crook;
>but I feel rather that they're being super-careful (but they're protecting
>their asses 100 percent and leaving ours out in the cold)
>
>
>Sandy
>
>
Ply Hull Design Shareware at
http://www.carlsondesign.com
Karl Denninger
Closing in escrow is done commonly in transactions like this, and in fact
can be requested by either party in most house transactions.
The release of the escrow is defined to take place at some pre-determined
time, but the point is that the escrow agent has specific, written and legal
instructions to deliver the funds either to the seller or back to the buyer
upon certain events.
If someone is having a hiss about a Cashier's Check, this is an alternative
that they should have NO problem with. If they do then something funny is
DEFINITELY going on.
--
--
Karl Denninger (ka...@denninger.net) Web: http://childrens-justice.org
Isn't it time we started putting KIDS first? See the above URL for
a plan to do exactly that!
In article <38185f45...@news.pipeline.com>,
Sam Schleman
It seems to me that your broker is confused over the difference between the
validity of the funds and the time the check takes to clear. A cashier's check
is guaranteed funds, which is why it is used for home purchases, etc. Or
get a bank check, issued by your bank, rather than a personal check that's
been certified.His only concern should be that at closing, when you obtain
title to the boat, that the buyer has guaranteed payment and can't be left
holding an invalid payment.
The business about three days seems nonsense. As long as the validity of the
payment is guaranteed, what's the big deal about three days? Is he angling for
you to cover three days interest on the purchase price?
I would call a couple of banks and/or marine finance companies in your area
and inquire how closing is handled, in terms of what form the funds must be.
You will either find he is reflecting prevalent practice in your area, or tell
him "No" and list all the banks that say that's not the way to do it.
Sam
>
>Just to be completely fair, I forgot to add that they WILL accept a cashiers
>check but that it must be in their hands 3 days before closing (to allow the
>cashiers check to clear).
>
>I also want to add that we spoke to an officer at our bank and found that
>cashiers check are not really the same as money and that it does take a
>small amount of time to clear.
>
>We also suggested to the broker that he call our bank (they know us well
>there now) to verify that the cashiers check is valid and funds available,
>but this was not acceptable to him.
>
>We also suggested to the Broker that we bring travelers checks which he also
>refused.
>
>We really feel in limbo here....stuck between heaven (sailing) and hell. We
>like the boat, we've already invested $$$ in survey & hauling costs (as well
>as emotionally.....this boat is ours now, in our hearts), and even invested
>a little in some repairs. I really don't think that the broker is a crook;
>but I feel rather that they're being super-careful (but they're protecting
>their asses 100 percent and leaving ours out in the cold)
>
>
>Sandy
>
>
********************************************
Sam Schleman - big...@pond.com
http://www.pond.com/~bigfish
********************************************
Marty Gras
Joe Della Barba wrote in message <3816e860....@news.earthlink.net>...
>>requiring that we pay with either Cash or wire transfer the funds prior to
>>closing (rather than pay with Cashiers check). Most replies to my
previous
>>post thought the deal smelled. I'd love to hear from anyone else that has
>>had dealilngs with Stuart Yacht Sales.
>>
>>They appear to be a reputable firm (at least they've been there for a
while)
>>but this payment requirment has us feeling very uneasy. Closing is set
for
>>this Friday.
>>
>>Sandy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>something like it for boats. Also - DO NOT BUY from that
>dealer!!!!!!!!
>
Gary
Another member of the Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners
mu...@jaymar.com
purchase a new boat. However, one thing seems to be missing in these
treads.
Has Stuart Yacht Sales been contacted to hear their side of the story
and possibly given a chance to explain their policies. I would have
only thought this fair. I, for one, after reading the treads would be
very wary of dealing with this firm.
P.S. I'm not a broker - live in Canada with no connection with the
broker in question.
Peter M
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Maerd
>From: mu...@jaymar.com
>Date: Fri, 29 October 1999 08:29 AM
Before I bought new 1999 21' Boston Whaler and I asked Sea Ray dealer if they
belonged to the Better Business Bureau and she said yes and there were some
postings about their firm. I asked "many" She said "no" I asked how many boats
did they sell a year and she said 700. We all know some things can be bad with
boats and cars etc. 5% of buyers are never happy. I bought the Whaler and they
have been wonderful taking care of the small problems I have had. Twice they
picked up my boat and took back to the shop (100) miles round trip and never
charged me. I bet Stuart can give you the names / numbers of happy customers.
There is always two sides to a story.
marius
Sales .The deal fell trhough due to some technical problems at the
inspection. I got all my deposit back. They were very professional
with me and not pushy , just professional . At the time I didn't know
very much about buying used boats, and before any paper was ever
signed or any money (before putting down a deposit) changed hands they
(S.Y.S.) suggested the following:
-make a written offer contingent on inspection ,test sail , survey, my
personal satisfaction for any reason, and the assumption all is
working as disclosed by seller, and closing will happen no later than
a specified date. Specify who pays what , including taxes, and extra
repairs for stuff that hasn't been disclosed by seller.The broker
commission was already agreed between the seller and broker since it's
a seller's broker.
-put down a deposit that goes into an escrow account .
-upon the seller counteroffering and/or accepting my offer, proceed
with the test sail, survey, inspection and haul out, all the stuff
that's found broken at survey and was not disclosed would be
substracted from the final payment.
-I can change my mind before and up to the closing date for reasons
specified in the offer (that includes survey, test sail, my own
personal satisfaction which means I can just walk away for no
reason ), and I get my deposit back from escrow without any penalties
no questions asked and regardless of what the seller says.
-at closing the broker shows up with the seller and a valid title
(that was subject to a title search and verification) , I show up with
a cashier's or certified check and the deal gets done.
I can't believe they would want to screw somebody without a
written offer, no deposit, no escrow, and demanding payment 3 days in
advance. There must be more to this story than was said here, even if
the buyer is not aware of it due to inexperience. Are you sure you are
dealing with Stuart Yacht Sales and not somebody using their name, did
you sign any papers at all ? How did you make the written offer and
how did you pay your deposit? IS the final payment supposed to go in
escrow , into the dealer's account or straight to the seller? It all
was stated a bit too imprecise for me to understand this story.
David Noss wrote in message ...
>I lived in Stuart for over 15 yrs., Stuart Yacht Sales has had
nothing but
>an excellent reputation.
>
>Either you're not telling the whole story or there is one major
>misunderstanding.
>
>paleonuts <pale...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>news:7v5foq$429g$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com...
DBarnic126
companies here in FL except Cashiers cks at the day of closing!..even if its
for a Million dollars
DBarnic126
in esqrool accounts..including deposits!..closings just like in Real Estate
should be made at lawyers office..if working with large sums of money..ours are
thru title ins. companies..in any case a bank cheak ( Cashiers Cheak) should be
the closing way.Also there should be a walk thru prior to closing..this insures
all equipment is there and working at the time of closing.
DBarnic126
whom they represent..we as Realitors do diclose and its in writing before going
forward..its the law!...I am looking for a Sailboat now..and am shocked how
boat brokers open up there own opions about there listings..few even came out
and said you dont want that basket case..or that bucket!..I asked them who are
you working for? always answer is both!
DBarnic126
John Lane
Mark
DBarnic126 wrote in message
<19991104155208...@ng-fb1.aol.com>...