Propeller anti-fouling?
Bruce In Bangkok
Has anyone tried any of the anti-fouling schemes intended for
propellers, and if so what was your experience?
The question comes about because I just had to dive on my prop and
clean it. When I got down there I discovered a mass of "clams" as big
as a bushel basket. Took two days to scrape them all off.
True, for one reason or another, the boat hasn't moved in the better
part of a year but still I don't believe I have ever seen as much
growth. Must be either global warming or high CO2 content :-)
In any event, it does make one think "there must be a better way".
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Vic Smith
Haven't tried it because I don't have a boat.
But you made me think that if you knew your boat would be idle a long
time, wrapping the prop it in a old piece of poly tarp might work.
Maybe even a thick black garbage bag.
Should be easier to put that on and crack/cut it away than spend 2
days scraping.
Barnacles need some light to grow, right?
We sometimes want a patch of lawn for garden and the easiest way
to kill the grass is to lay something on it that blocks the light.
--Vic
mmc
"Vic Smith" <thismaila...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:otm8l5p9qd18mk7ta...@4ax.com...
off before getting underway!
Hope you're well and staying warm.
mmc
"Bruce In Bangkok" <decypher...@sig.line> wrote in message
news:jlh8l55qn0bbhbdb4...@4ax.com...
Any paints I've tried get burned off. A friend has gotten his prop plated
with copper and swears by it.
mmc
"Bruce In Bangkok" <decypher...@sig.line> wrote in message
news:jlh8l55qn0bbhbdb4...@4ax.com...
>
I'd go with Vic's suggestion for extended periods or areas with warm water
like Thailand ;-)
Might hang a tag on the engine intake seacock to remind you to remove the
covering before getting, or attemping to get, underway.
Tuuk
are attracted to that? Using anodes or disconnecting battery or another form
of cathodic protection. Have a look at some other boats in the slips to see
if theirs has the same problems. If they don't then you may have a
electrolisis issue as the prop is the most obvious spot of focus for this as
it is the thinest/best part under the water for transfer of electrons.
"mmc" <eod...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4b5474df$1$4849$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
Edgar
"Bruce In Bangkok" <decypher...@sig.line> wrote in message
news:jlh8l55qn0bbhbdb4...@4ax.com..
Ordinary ablative antifouling might be better than nothing if you hardly use
the boat but it washes off in no time at all if you run the engine. I use
some expensive stuff in a spray can that Volvo produce for their underwater
units. This seems basically to be the same sort of antifouling but harder,
so it does not wash off so quickly. Also it makes a somewhat slick surface
so that barnacles find it harder to stay on while the prop is running.
I have a theory, not yet put to the test, that the very slick paint that has
been produced to make a wall graffiti-proof would be the way to go because
barnacles could not stick to it at all once the prop started to rotate.. The
reason I have not yet tested this idea is because the smallest quantity that
I have found for sale is about 10 gallons.
>
Tuuk
somethings like zinc or cadnium or nickle or magnesium or something with a
negative potential, then they are simply trying to solve their anodic
galvanic reaction which might be attracting the animals. Easier to solve
with a rectifiar or battery issues.
"Edgar" <ejc...@REMOVEonline.no> wrote in message
news:MNednVv8Db2Z48nW...@telenor.com...
Frogwatch
> Check the ingredients of that antifoul paint. If its ingredients include
> somethings like zinc or cadnium or nickle or magnesium or something with a
> negative potential, then they are simply trying to solve their anodic
> galvanic reaction which might be attracting the animals. Easier to solve
> with a rectifiar or battery issues.
>
> "Edgar" <ejc...@REMOVEonline.no> wrote in message
>
> news:MNednVv8Db2Z48nW...@telenor.com...
>
>
>
I have tried everything and finally decided to use a plastic
"Perfectpitch" prop. They provide a special puller so you can easily
take the prop off to clean it.
Bruce In Bangkok
Yes, putting a black garbage bag over the prop does cut down on growth
drastically... however.
As it was really happenstance that the boat wasn't taken out so no
plans had been made for storing the boat and secondly, most people
start the engine every week or so even if the boat is not being used.
Inadvertently most of those who have taken the precaution to bag the
prop seem to test the transmission when running the engine which sort
of negates the whole project. (the bag rips).
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Bruce In Bangkok
>Is it possible that there is too much electrolisis loss? And these barnicals
>are attracted to that? Using anodes or disconnecting battery or another form
>of cathodic protection. Have a look at some other boats in the slips to see
>if theirs has the same problems. If they don't then you may have a
>electrolisis issue as the prop is the most obvious spot of focus for this as
>it is the thinest/best part under the water for transfer of electrons.
>
Cathodic protection is exactly the same as it has been for the past 15
years or so. The propeller and shaft are insulated from the rest of
the boat and an anode is placed between the prop and the stern
bearing.
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Bruce In Bangkok
Interesting. There is a plating shop near here that might be able to
do that. I shall ask.
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Bruce In Bangkok
Been there, done that and it works a treat if you are going to leave
the boat for some time. In this case I was living on the boat and
working on a second boat. The enthusiasm for finishing the second boat
precluded sailing the first boat.
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Bruce In Bangkok
>Check the ingredients of that antifoul paint. If its ingredients include
>somethings like zinc or cadnium or nickle or magnesium or something with a
>negative potential, then they are simply trying to solve their anodic
>galvanic reaction which might be attracting the animals. Easier to solve
>with a rectifiar or battery issues.
>
No exotic additives. From all I can find out the paint is basically a
very hard anti-fouling applied over some sort of (perhaps) epoxy based
primer. The one magazine article I read stated that the paint lasted
an entire season on a trawler yacht but I'd really like to see it in
action before spending the money.
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:
You are correct that normal anti-fouling paint doesn't stay on the
prop however several paint companies are making a paint specifically
for propellers. The recommended procedure is to (1) sandblast or grind
the propeller to a specific surface finish; (2) clean the propeller
chemically clean; (3) apply a specific primer and finally (4) apply a
specific anti-fouling paint. The whole procedure is involved and the
paint is expensive and apparently deviating from the specified
procedure results in failure. Thus my questions.
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Noj Zang
http://www.sgnis.org/publicat/ab97_43.htm
Connect a bi-phasic livestock fence shocker to your propeller shaft and you
will experience no electrolysis.
Noj
sa...@dog.com
Normal anti-fouling should not be applied to a propeller. Normal
anti-fouling paint contains copper and your prop will get eaten.
Bruce In Bangkok
I have no idea what the "propeller paint" is but it is certainly
recommended for propellers so I assume that it is compatible with
bronze.
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:
It is not electrolysis I'm fighting, it is shellfish.
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Noj Zang
"Bruce In Bangkok" <decypher...@sig.line> wrote in message
> It is not electrolysis I'm fighting, it is shellfish.
>
Let's try again. The link says:
The application of pulsed electric fields to water containing micro- or
macro-organisms has been proven to be a means of controlling the population
of these organism, or to stun them over a certain electric field dependent
time interval. The fact that the efficiency of this control mechanism
increases with decreasing pulse duration opens the possibility to utilize
microsecond pulse power technology for biofouling prevention in cooling
water systems. The advantages over other techniques used for biofouling
prevention such as its independence from chemicals, the fact that it is
possible to stun, rather than kill unwanted biofouling species, that it does
not generate shock waves which could affect the structure of the cooling
system, and that it can be installed like a filter in front of an existing
cooling system, without requiring any changes in the cooling system, make
the pulsed electric field technology (PEFT) a strong contender to existing
biofouling prevention methods. A recent field study, where tidal water from
the Elizabeth River in Norfolk, VA, was treated by means of the pulsed
electric field method, demonstrated complete prevention of biofouling in
pipes when the river water at the intake of the pipes was exposed to
electric field of 6.5 kV/cm with 770 nanosecond pulse duration. The
efficiency was 1,400 gallons of treated water per kWh, an increase in
efficiency by more than a factor of three compared to results presented at
the 1996 Zebra Mussel Conference. Experiments with even lower electric
fields and correspondingly lower energy consumption are under way. modeling
results indicate that efficiencies of more than 50,00 gallons/ kWh may be
reached in fresh water cooling systems.
The livestock fence shocker delivers said pulsed electric field of required
intensity. If the electric pulse is monophasic it delivers net charge into
the water, creating electrolysis. If the electric pulse is biphasic (ie:
capacitively coupled) it will deliver no net charge into the water, avoiding
electrolysis.
I, know, I know. It's not livestock that are giving your propellor problems
and the article only mentions zebra mussels in 1996.
But then you are the guy who wrapped electrical connections in tape for
frequently flooded aircraft runways and buried them in the ground, despite
the law saying those connections should be above ground in a hermetic box.
How many died because of that?
With barnacle growth the size of a medium shopping trolley fouling your
drive train at least you have the electrolysis problem solved as there are
no exposed metals to electrolyze.
I have studied this in depth at university in Bangalore.
Noj
Tuuk
electrolisis on your boat.
This could initiate electrolisis and anodic reaction to most other boats
around you and dock and dock hardware and cause them to be the "sacrifical"
part in this corrisive situation.
If you add electrolisis, then all the anodes surrounding your boat will
attract those superfluous emissions and prematurely erode all the anodes.
Also, be careful with painting props for obvious reasons. Half way through
next motoring season when a shaft bearing fails due to introduced
unballanced wear on them, you can be assured that its cause is directly
related to your painting a balanced part therefore making it unbalanced and
causing vibrations and failing bearings or seals. Keep the prop ballanced.
"Noj Zang" <Noj...@DSL52.net> wrote in message
news:hj4h5t$83j$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Flying Pig
It's been in the water too long, now, so it's gone, but PropSpeed lasts a
couple of years. Go to their website for an education, but the simple
process is that it's too slippery for the critters to hold on to and they
sling off.
An etching primer applied to an 80 grit scuffed clean surface first, then
the other stuff on top of it. Basically yellow looking.
My prop stayed clean for the first couple of years in the water. When we
next haul, I'll use it again. Very satisfied.
L8R
Skip
--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
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and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog
"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
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(and)
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its hand
(Richard Bach)
sa...@dog.com
<decypher...@sig.line> wrote:
I agree.
Steve Lusardi
clear, I think I understand what Noj is saying. When I first read about this technology, I was also very concerned with
electrolysis, but with after thought, he stated that he capacitively couples the charge. This electrostatic discharge is
effectively AC with negligible polar current draw. If you folks remember there was an episode on the "Mythbusters" where they
tried to corrode through a prison steel barred widow using electrolysis. At the end of the episode, there was negligible induced
corrosion with AC applied, yet a great deal of corrosion was induced with a simple battery. I do not believe this system will
induce a problem. It is certainly worth a test. Bruce, you're on.
Steve
" Tuuk" <ronn...@ya.com> wrote in message news:Z5k5n.168$_96...@newsfe02.iad...
Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:
>
I suggest that you query the U.S. Air force about regulations applying
to the installation and maintenance of air field lighting systems on
US Military Installations as all work was carried out in accordance
with their specifications. I might also point out that the USAF
maintains a force of inspectors who daily inspect the work
accomplished by contractors so I can only assume that the taped
splices were acceptable to Air Force.
>With barnacle growth the size of a medium shopping trolley fouling your
>drive train at least you have the electrolysis problem solved as there are
>no exposed metals to electrolyze.
>
>I have studied this in depth at university in Bangalore.
>
>
>
>Noj
Regarding the electronic barnacle deterrent. Yes, I've seen the web
site on the Internet but what I haven't seen is a yacht with the
system installed. In fact I have never even met an individual who was
thinking about installing the system.
Now, given that every boater who keeps his boat in the water is
interested in shellfish growing/not growing on his hull it pretty much
tells me that either the system doesn't work, or that the system is
not cost effective.
Care to give me a list of boat owners who I can contact to ask them
what they think of the system?
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Bruce In Bangkok
>You better announce to the dock master you are putting this type of
>electrolisis on your boat.
>
>This could initiate electrolisis and anodic reaction to most other boats
>around you and dock and dock hardware and cause them to be the "sacrifical"
>part in this corrisive situation.
>
>If you add electrolisis, then all the anodes surrounding your boat will
>attract those superfluous emissions and prematurely erode all the anodes.
>
>
>Also, be careful with painting props for obvious reasons. Half way through
>next motoring season when a shaft bearing fails due to introduced
>unballanced wear on them, you can be assured that its cause is directly
>related to your painting a balanced part therefore making it unbalanced and
>causing vibrations and failing bearings or seals. Keep the prop ballanced.
>
I couldn't agree with you more, however... I'll be willing to bet that
if you pulled the props from every boat in this marina and stuck them
on a balancing machine you'd be lucky to find more then two or two
that were balanced, as they came out of the water, i.e., in the
condition that they are normally used. Stuff grows on propellers all
the time and few if any get every tiny bit off when they dive down and
scrape the propeller.
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Bruce In Bangkok
<steve...@lusardi.de> wrote:
>Wait a minute guys. I don't think we should just blow this guy off. There is logic to what he says. Although his language is not
>clear, I think I understand what Noj is saying. When I first read about this technology, I was also very concerned with
>electrolysis, but with after thought, he stated that he capacitively couples the charge. This electrostatic discharge is
>effectively AC with negligible polar current draw. If you folks remember there was an episode on the "Mythbusters" where they
>tried to corrode through a prison steel barred widow using electrolysis. At the end of the episode, there was negligible induced
>corrosion with AC applied, yet a great deal of corrosion was induced with a simple battery. I do not believe this system will
>induce a problem. It is certainly worth a test. Bruce, you're on.
>Steve
I responded to the guy in a different post but I agree with you that
it is worth exploring and may well be a solution. Some time ago I had
a look at least one web site that advertised a system, as he
describes, as I remember the website used a lot of flash descriptions
and slick descriptions of how it worked... not the sort of explanation
that would encourage anyone who know a bit about electronics. In
addition their prices seemed to be very much the sort of prices one
associated with space capsules.
As I remember one bonded what appeared to be transducers at various
spots throughout the boat and then pulsed them at a fairly low
frequency.
Although it wasn't the site I originally visited, you can get some
details from
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5143011/fulltext.html
which is from a patent issued in 1992 so it certainly isn't anything
new.
My comment to the O.P. was that I have never seen or heard of such an
installation on a yacht, nor have I even met an individual who was
interested in looking into the idea. Which maybe just means that
Yachties are dummies.... although I doubt it.
I would really like to talk with someone who had actually tried the
system.
There was also an article entitled "
Go, Navy! U.S. Ships to Try Eco-Safe Anti-Barnacle Tactics
Written by Tina Casey
Published on August 8th, 2009
Which does not mention the electronic method which makes one wonder
about the validity of the claims for the "sound system".
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Bruce In Bangkok
<skipgu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi, Bruce, et. al.,
>
>It's been in the water too long, now, so it's gone, but PropSpeed lasts a
>couple of years. Go to their website for an education, but the simple
>process is that it's too slippery for the critters to hold on to and they
>sling off.
>
>An etching primer applied to an 80 grit scuffed clean surface first, then
>the other stuff on top of it. Basically yellow looking.
>
>My prop stayed clean for the first couple of years in the water. When we
>next haul, I'll use it again. Very satisfied.
>
>L8R
>
>Skip
Thanks for the endorsement from someone who has actually used a
product :-)
I believe that International Paints and some of the other paint
companies are also making a product...... I believe a hard
anti-fouling paint, but am not sure.
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Edgar
"Bruce In Bangkok" <decypher...@sig.line> wrote in message
<snipped>
.
> Which does not mention the electronic method which makes one wonder
> about the validity of the claims for the "sound system".
I seem to recall that this system was based on observations which showed
that the transponders of echo sounders remain free from fouling.
Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:
And it may well work, or work in certain instances.
However I think that my point is still valid, that I have never met
anyone who was using the system and if, in fact, the system is
something wonderful it would seem likely that it would be in use.
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
Richard Casady
wrote:
>
Transducers convert electricity to sound, in this case. Which is what
your meant. Transponders pick up an signal and send out a reply. They
have them in comsats. IFF uses transponders.
Casady
Richard Casady
>On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:38:26 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
><decypher...@sig.line> wrote:
>
>>
>>Has anyone tried any of the anti-fouling schemes intended for
>>propellers, and if so what was your experience?
>>
>>The question comes about because I just had to dive on my prop and
>>clean it. When I got down there I discovered a mass of "clams" as big
>>as a bushel basket. Took two days to scrape them all off.
>>
>>True, for one reason or another, the boat hasn't moved in the better
>>part of a year but still I don't believe I have ever seen as much
>>growth. Must be either global warming or high CO2 content :-)
>>
>>In any event, it does make one think "there must be a better way".
>>
>Haven't tried it because I don't have a boat.
>But you made me think that if you knew your boat would be idle a long
>time, wrapping the prop it in a old piece of poly tarp might work.
>Maybe even a thick black garbage bag.
>Should be easier to put that on and crack/cut it away than spend 2
>days scraping.
>Barnacles need some light to grow, right?
>We sometimes want a patch of lawn for garden and the easiest way
>to kill the grass is to lay something on it that blocks the light.
Barnacles are animals, not green plants, and they don't need light.
They need food and oxygen and the bag would cut off both.