Re: Zak gets interviewed
Capt. JG
news:edsp45tpt489302g6...@4ax.com...
> He's almost around:
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7983809
A heck of an adventure for someone that young... for anyone really.
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
Jim
I have followed him from the start, but get turned off by all the
praying and worshiping.
Takes away from his achievement.
It has opened my eyes to all the Jesus worshipers and how they see the
world. "Do hard things" is a good slogan, but it seems to them that
it's part of belief in fairy dust and worshiping idols.
I was also turned off by his calling daddy when the forestay came loose.
Did he really have to ask what to do? Should he, if this is his
achievement?
The pirate story isn't believable, he probably saw a fishing boat.
Too quick with the guns.
Guns and God aren't a sane combination.
Capt. JG
news:76qdndUsnPORpc_X...@earthlink.com...
Yes! I was thinking that the "pirates" were curious fisherman. If they
wanted to get him, they would have. They could clearly out run him.
Jim
Look at his interview for how it turned out, "I turned and then they
turned." He should realize by now it was foolish to assume they were a
threat.
He was too quick to get his gun. In a situation like that I can see
fishermen shooting him to protect themselves.
The world view of Christians should concern all of us who have an
immunity from seeing everything as a threat.
Those are the people who still think W was a good thing. The only ones.
Capt. JG
I didn't think he had a gun. I don't recall that in the ABC interview. Is it
on his website somewhere? I would think that, given his boat and general
situation, the better approach would be to act friendly, keep going without
changing course, dissuade them from coming along side by basically not
stopping, keep waving and acting friendly, etc. I sure as heck wouldn't
brandish a weapon. While not anywhere near the same situation, when we were
in Belize at anchor, a fishing boat dropped their hook near us. We were the
only boat in the lagoon. They were all in their teens or slightly older. We
sort of ignored them, but acknowledged there presence by watching them come
to rest. They immediately boarded their skiff and motored over. Made us
nervous for sure. They wanted soda and books if we had any. We gave them
both and later heard them ready some bodice-ripper outloud to each other.
The next day they offered (and we accepted) their invitation to take us to
their traps and fishing camp.
David Martel
I watched the ABC interview. There was a mention of pirates but no
mention of a gun. Perhaps Jim can clear this up.
His web-site has a tentative arrival date of 7/14
Dave M.
Jim
Sorry, but. . .
The discussion led to protecting yourself with force.
I'm one who believes that sometimes, in the act of protecting yourself,
if you appear to be a threat to the other guy, it can escalate into
someone being killed. The attitude, expressed in the comments on Zac's
blog, is one of "I have the right to shoot first if I THINK you are a
threat."
In the hands of a 17 year old, this might not turn out well. Someone
pointed out our soldiers are in that age range, but they have some
supervision and there are many documented cases of bad turnouts.
As someone in the comments of the blog said (and I paraphrase), "The
biggest gun wins, game over." To which I add, "Game over, Life over,
and it might be yours."
I was in horror at reading the comments from people with a belief in
religion wanting to shoot first, possibly innocent people.
There are a lot of people on that blog who believe Zac "saved" himself
with a big gun. But nothing of the kind happened.
I stand by my last sentence, because of the belief held by some that you
are safer being the bully. No matter the results, as long as I "feel
safe" nothing else matters.
I'm glad I'm not one of them.
Sorry I mentioned a specific lightning rod.
Jim
He had a big, very powerful gun, and I'm proud of my gun model ignorance.
It was a .357 (was that a Pontiac engine?) It was a gun that was
capable of doing far more damage that you might want to do. I know how
powerful that weapon was. I had a neighbor who fired one through a car
(both sides), all the way through a house, and kept going. Could have
killed a lot of people, and ruin a lot of people's lives.
His dad was too quick to tell him to "Get your gun." I'd rather he
said, "Zac, Keep a clear head and know where your gun is." But, get
your gun was what he said.
It's all on the blog.
He dumped it when he got to Central America because he was scared of
Mexican gun laws. I really had a new view of things after that.
I might be safer in Mexico.
Jim
I crossed the line a bit too far, sorry.
Gordon
You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means
he uses to frighten you. Eric Hoffer quote
The opposite of the religious fanatic is not the fanatical atheist
but the gentle cynic who cares not whether there is a god or not.
Another Eric Hoffer
Capt. JG
I'm not a proponent of guns on boats. Ultimately, I don't believe it'll help
the situation, and I would never have one. To each his own, and to each his
own ability to deal with the gun laws of the various countries.
David Martel
I went to Zac's blog and read the Oct. 5 pirate story, no pistol. But
other sources on the net do seem to think that Zac was armed with a .357 and
a flare gun. Here's a post that seems to quote Zac's blog but contains the
sentence "Then I grabbed my 357 and jammed some bullets into it" Perhaps
someone is re-writing the blog posts on Zac's site. Strange.
Dave M.
David Martel
Oops, forgot to cite the post.
http://clearpointweather.blogspot.com/2008/10/pirates-in-indian-ocean.html
Dave M.
Jim
I'll go back and see if I can find it.
If I were the moderator of that blog (his mom) I'd delete the gun
incident, because it appeared to not be handled with care.
I would think a scared 17 year old with too big a gun would be trouble
in the making.
Jim
I reread the blog for that incident, no mention of the gun. But there
are many comments that have been removed by the moderator, and a few
references remain, like this one:
"Great job. A 357, bulletproof glass and a shield of protection from the
Most High God. . ."
Religion justifying violence. What a world we have.
Jim
I forgot the link, 1/3 of the way down:
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=1496489450166516267&postID=5947510379331220496
Jim
Going back and re-reading, the blog has been sanitized. The original
post was edited and fair number of the comments have been "Deleted by
Moderator."
I'm the guy who did well in college because I remember what I read and
where I read it. I have won many an argument with a professor or two
about test questions.
I'll paraphrase what I remember as to the events according to the blog.
Zac called daddy on the satellite phone when he saw what he thought was
a threatening boat. It came his way and didn't show on his radar. It
might have been steering an erratic course (setting a net?)
Daddy said to get his gun and load it, which Zac did.
The boat turned away and all was ok.
There were quite a few comments to this, like who has the biggest weapon
wins. The worst of those comments were deleted.
My guess is the fishermen were either setting nets or thinking about
selling Zac some fish.
A wooden boat not appearing on radar should not surprise anyone,
especially someone circling the globe.
Capt. JG
news:KpP4m.1387$P5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> Oops, forgot to cite the post.
>
> http://clearpointweather.blogspot.com/2008/10/pirates-in-indian-ocean.html
>
> Dave M.
>
Sounds like a bunch of bs to me. I think he just panicked, which seems
reasonable for a 17-year old.
Jim
Going back and re-reading, the blog has been sanitized. The original
post was edited and fair number of the comments have been "Deleted by
Moderator."
I'm the guy who did well in college because I remember what I read and
where I read it. I have won many an argument with a professor or two
about test questions.
I'll paraphrase what I remember as to the events according to the blog.
Zac tried to call daddy on the satellite phone when he saw what he
thought was a threatening boat. It came his way and didn't show on his
radar. It might have been steering an erratic course (setting a net?)
Daddy said to get his gun and load it, which Zac did. Maybe Zac didn't
get his dad on the phone and "Get the gun" was fatherly advise to cover
all situations.
Jim
weapon, or maybe any weapon.
I know, our soldiers are in that are range. They have supervision and
have more than a few examples of being heavy handed with weapons.
Lew Hodgett
> Which is a good reason a 17 year old should not have that powerful a
> weapon, or maybe any weapon.
As someone who grew up using firearms, even have a bunch of metals
from NRA Junior programs while I was still in high school, to prove
that I could hit what I aimed at by the time I was 12 or so, a 17 year
old having firearms is NBD, IMHO.
Having said that; however, show me anybody, including myself, who
claims to be able to hit a bull in the ass from 20 ft from the deck of
a small boat (under 50 ft), with moderate waves (3-4 ft), and I'll
show you a teller of tall tales.
I wasted a lot of rounds in my Model 12 trying to shoot empty beer
bottles floating in the open waters of the Great Lakes under such
conditions.
Leave the firearms at home before someone comes on board and takes
your firearm away from you and places it where the moon doesn't shine.
Lew
Jim
Good advise.
Capt. JG
Definitely. I'm a decent shot with my .38 Special (S&W, mod. 67-1), but to
hit a moving target from a moving platform is quite a task.
cavelamb
I heard soe seals could do that.
But I take Lew's advice as sound.
I have a flare gun aboard.
But the rest stay home.
Richard
Lew Hodgett
> I heard soe seals could do that.
> But I take Lew's advice as sound.
>
> I have a flare gun aboard.
> But the rest stay home.
A 25mm flare shell makes a penetration a little larger than 25mm on
entry into the human body, but burns its way thru the body until who
knows how big the hole is coming out the back side.
Lew
cavelamb
Capt. JG
news:NuqdnQZwyMV4t8nX...@earthlink.com...
I have flares and a flare gun. I guess I'm set to fend off pirates!
cavelamb
Nope.
YOU will need a lot bigger armament.
Because you would be a much bigger target.
Besides, there aren't many pirates in Texas.
Damned Fool place to take up that kind of work...
sa...@dog.com
A recent issue of Cruising World had an article about Fatty Goodlander
learning the hard way that a gun on board is more trouble than it is
worth. He ended up dismantling the (very nice and expensive) gun and
throwing it overboard.
Richard Casady
<sail...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Having said that; however, show me anybody, including myself, who
>claims to be able to hit a bull in the ass from 20 ft from the deck of
>a small boat (under 50 ft), with moderate waves (3-4 ft), and I'll
>show you a teller of tall tales.
Once they put a hand on the rail, they are no longer moving with
respect to the gun. Once they are still attempting to board after a
shot in the air, they are clearly pirates. You have to remember there
are lots more fishermen than thieves. You don't want to harm, or even
unduely threaten a guy merely with fish for sale. Mossberg makes a
stainless steel shotgun just for mariners. Handguns need to be very,
very, very non obvious. In the words of some singer ' I hid it like
contraband' Hide your roscoe like it was a kilo of the white stuff.
The shotgun is for sharks, thats your story, and have a couple of rods
and reels. Like the thrift store ball bat on the back seat floor. Add
a thrift shop softball so your lawyer will have something to work
with. The cops can be sure its a weapon but juries go by reasonable
doubt. You need fishing tackle for it to be a shark gun. By the same
token guys in fishing boats are allowed one AK47 per boat, for the net
with a shark in it. You could use a pike I suppose, but guns are the
popular for that. One gun per boat, its probably for sharks. One gun
per person is suspicious to say the least.
Casady
Capt. JG
Heh... I'm not that big physically, and I doubt they can see my ego. lol
I'm not going to comment on foolishness in Texas. lol
Joe
wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:00:56 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
>
> >Having said that; however, show me anybody, including myself, who
> >claims to be able to hit a bull in the ass from 20 ft from the deck of
> >a small boat (under 50 ft), with moderate waves (3-4 ft), and I'll
> >show you a teller of tall tales.
>
> Once they put a hand on the rail, they are no longer moving with
> respect to the gun. Once they are still attempting to board after a
> shot in the air, they are clearly pirates.
Yeah I LMAO at commets of the gun scared thinking the only way to use
a gun is wave it in the air and think it going to scare off anyone.
You have to remember there
> are lots more fishermen than thieves. You don't want to harm, or even
> unduely threaten a guy merely with fish for sale.
Smartest thing said in this thread.
Mossberg makes a
> stainless steel shotgun just for mariners.
a 410 snake charmer is staineless as well,
Handguns need to be very,
> very, very non obvious. In the words of some singer ' I hid it like
> contraband' Hide your roscoe like it was a kilo of the white stuff.
> The shotgun is for sharks, thats your story, and have a couple of rods
> and reels. Like the thrift store ball bat on the back seat floor. Add
> a thrift shop softball so your lawyer will have something to work
> with. The cops can be sure its a weapon but juries go by reasonable
> doubt.
Most good fishing stores sell a 2 ft aluminum ball bat just for
sharks.
You need fishing tackle for it to be a shark gun. By the same
> token guys in fishing boats are allowed one AK47 per boat, for the net
> with a shark in it.
I agree. AK47s are all over Mexico and Belize
There is no problem packing weapons aboard as long as you declare
them to customs. It's a boat security tool.
Joe
Capt. JG
news:137ead74-069e-4816...@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Joe
> Casady
There's frequently a big problem packing weapons. If you're visiting one or
two countries, then you might be able to figure out the regs. If you're
doing some long distance cruising, there are too many issues in too many
different places. It's not worth the hassle for the slightly chance the
weapon would be a benefit. 99.999 percent of the time there's either no
problem and no reason to carry one or there isn't anything you can do. This
is true even off the Somali coast. While there has been a significant
increase in piracy, the vast, vast majority of ships never have a problem.
Look it up if you don't believe me.
If you want a "boat security tool," lock your boat when you leave it and
lock your dinghy/engine at night. Leave a light on. Talk to your companions
on nearby hooks... check in with each other regularly via a net. When
ashore, respect the local customs and be mindful of your environment.
Joe
It's not worth the hassle for the slightly chance the
> weapon would be a benefit. 99.999 percent of the time there's either no
> problem and no reason to carry one or there isn't anything you can do.
99.999 percent of the time you do not need a liferaft or an EPIRB why
hassle with it, it's expensive and time consuming..
This
> is true even off the Somali coast. While there has been a significant
> increase in piracy, the vast, vast majority of ships never have a problem.
> Look it up if you don't believe me.
>
> If you want a "boat security tool," lock your boat when you leave it and
> lock your dinghy/engine at night. Leave a light on. Talk to your companions
> on nearby hooks... check in with each other regularly via a net. When
> ashore, respect the local customs and be mindful of your environment.
>
> --
> "j" ganz @@www.sailnow.com
Are you a Democrat, a Republican, or a Southerner?
Here is a little test that will help you decide.
The answer can be found by posing the following question:
You're sailing offshore with your wife and two small children.
Suddenly, an pirate in a skiff comes along side, locks eyes with you,
screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at
you.
You are carrying a Glock in cal. 45 ACP, and you are an quality shot.
You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do
you do?
THINK CAREFULLY:
Democrat's Answer:
Well, that's not enough information to answer the question! Does the
man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that
would inspire him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife
think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club
and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this
situation? Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it? Why
am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this
send to society and to my children? Is it possible he'd be happy with
just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be
content just to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on,
could my family get away while he was stabbing me? Should I call the
coast guard? Why is this ocean so deserted? We need to raise taxes,
have beach clean up day and make this happier, healthier ocean that
would discourage such behavior. This is all so confusing! I need to
debate this with some friends for few days and try to come to a
consensus.
Republican's Answer:
BANG!
Southerner's Answer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
Click. Reload.
Daughter: "Nice grouping, Daddy!
Son: "Can I shoot the next one? Were those the Winchester Silver Tips
or Golden Sabers?"
Wife: "You ain't takin' that to the Taxidermist!
Jim
>
> Are you a Democrat, a Republican, or a Southerner?
>
> Here is a little test that will help you decide.
>
> The answer can be found by posing the following question:
>
> You're sailing offshore with your wife and two small children.
> Suddenly, an pirate in a skiff comes along side, locks eyes with you,
> screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at
> you.
> You are carrying a Glock in cal. 45 ACP, and you are an quality shot.
> You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do
> you do?
>
> THINK CAREFULLY:
>
I realize this is a joke, but it is based upon a scenario that NEVER
happens, and never did happen, and never will, except in your mind.
It's really Muslin bashing.
Guess that's what pisses me off about our trying to protect ourselves
from whatever threat we think we are protecting ourselves from.
Reality takes a back seat to creative thinking. Searching elderly
people at the airport, searching people's shoes.
The Muslim's aren't coming to get you, maybe you aren't based in reality
enough to own a gun.
Capt. JG
On Jul 8, 1:50 pm, "Capt. JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote:
It's not worth the hassle for the slightly chance the
> weapon would be a benefit. 99.999 percent of the time there's either no
> problem and no reason to carry one or there isn't anything you can do.
>99.999 percent of the time you do not need a liferaft or an EPIRB why
>hassle with it, it's expensive and time consuming..
Because the first is a matter of hassling with the legalities of multiple
countries; whereas, the EPIRB and raft might actually save your life.
Why bother with a PFD? I noticed that your and yours were wearing them
during your rescue.
This
> is true even off the Somali coast. While there has been a significant
> increase in piracy, the vast, vast majority of ships never have a problem.
> Look it up if you don't believe me.
>
> If you want a "boat security tool," lock your boat when you leave it and
> lock your dinghy/engine at night. Leave a light on. Talk to your
> companions
> on nearby hooks... check in with each other regularly via a net. When
> ashore, respect the local customs and be mindful of your environment.
>
> --
> "j" ganz @@www.sailnow.com
Joe
> Joe wrote:
>
> > Are you a Democrat, a Republican, or a Southerner?
>
> > Here is a little test that will help you decide.
>
> > The answer can be found by posing the following question:
>
> > You're sailing offshore with your wife and two small children.
> > Suddenly, an pirate in a skiff comes along side, locks eyes with you,
> > screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at
> > you.
> > You are carrying a Glock in cal. 45 ACP, and you are an quality shot.
> > You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do
> > you do?
>
> > THINK CAREFULLY:
>
> I realize this is a joke, but it is based upon a scenario that NEVER
> happens, and never did happen, and never will, except in your mind.
>
> It's really Muslin bashing.
>
> Guess that's what pisses me off about our trying to protect ourselves
> from whatever threat we think we are protecting ourselves from.
Jim, please dont bother protecting yourself.
>
> Reality takes a back seat to creative thinking. Searching elderly
> people at the airport, searching people's shoes.
Reality is a terrorist (muslim) tried to blow up a plane full of good
people with a shoe bomb. Sorry if the airport security making you take
off your shoes troubled your superior self, but Im glad they take the
job of protecting others seriously.
>
> The Muslim's aren't coming to get you, maybe you aren't based in reality
> enough to own a gun.- Hide quoted text -
Maybe you are to sensitive to own a gun, or can't take a joke Jim.
And BTW many millions of teens serving in the military have no problem
becoming fire arms experts. And after military service many become
police ect.
But I'm sure some asshole can find one or two bad examples in every
large group and try to use that for a warped anti gun stance. Most
idiots who can not properly master a firearm are dropped in boot
camp.
You like bashing the military?
Did you serve in the military?
Don't worry Jim, them military teens are not coming to get you.
Joe
>
Joe
> "Joe" <steelredcl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ea6927a7-a661-429d...@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 8, 1:50 pm, "Capt. JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote:
>
> It's not worth the hassle for the slightly chance the
>
> > weapon would be a benefit. 99.999 percent of the time there's either no
> > problem and no reason to carry one or there isn't anything you can do.
> >99.999 percent of the time you do not need a liferaft or an EPIRB why
> >hassle with it, it's expensive and time consuming..
>
> Because the first is a matter of hassling with the legalities of multiple
> countries; whereas, the EPIRB and raft might actually save your life.
Are you claiming a gun used by someone who knows how to use it can not
save a life? And btw what hassles and expense have you had clearing
weapons in any country? I've cleared weapons in many countries
including Mexico and it did not cost a penny, and the only time
conusming part was giving customs 24 hr notice of departure so they
could return the weapon if it was removed from the vessel or to get
tehm to remove their lock from the weapons locker.
>
> Why bother with a PFD? I noticed that your and yours were wearing them
> during your rescue.
>
Damn right, I bother with providing my crew with every tool that can
help save lifes and protect the boat and crew. Even if it is costly
and time consuming... Thats the point. Even the Belize military
suggested we should be packing offshore.
Bet this fellow wished he had a gun
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2338215.ece
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/13/somalia.pirates.revenge/
Joe
Capt. JG
Come one. You seriously believe that taking off your shoes is going to
protect you? Our Federal buildings are unprotected... recent CNN report. Our
chem plants are unprotected.
>
> The Muslim's aren't coming to get you, maybe you aren't based in reality
> enough to own a gun.- Hide quoted text -
>Maybe you are to sensitive to own a gun, or can't take a joke Jim.
>And BTW many millions of teens serving in the military have no problem
>becoming fire arms experts. And after military service many become
>police ect.
So now you're claiming Zac is an expert? Now that's funny!
>But I'm sure some asshole can find one or two bad examples in every
>large group and try to use that for a warped anti gun stance. Most
>idiots who can not properly master a firearm are dropped in boot
>camp.
Like Tim McVeigh?
>You like bashing the military?
Making things up again?
>Did you serve in the military?
What's that got to do with anything??
Capt. JG
On Jul 9, 11:38 am, "Capt. JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote:
> "Joe" <steelredcl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ea6927a7-a661-429d...@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 8, 1:50 pm, "Capt. JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote:
>
> It's not worth the hassle for the slightly chance the
>
> > weapon would be a benefit. 99.999 percent of the time there's either no
> > problem and no reason to carry one or there isn't anything you can do.
> >99.999 percent of the time you do not need a liferaft or an EPIRB why
> >hassle with it, it's expensive and time consuming..
>
> Because the first is a matter of hassling with the legalities of multiple
> countries; whereas, the EPIRB and raft might actually save your life.
>Are you claiming a gun used by someone who knows how to use it can not
>save a life? And btw what hassles and expense have you had clearing
>weapons in any country? I've cleared weapons in many countries
>including Mexico and it did not cost a penny, and the only time
>conusming part was giving customs 24 hr notice of departure so they
>could return the weapon if it was removed from the vessel or to get
>tehm to remove their lock from the weapons locker.
Never said that. You're just ranting. Re-read what I wrote and get back to
me.
If you don't have the weapon, what good is it doing you in a Mexican
lockup??????????
> Why bother with a PFD? I noticed that your and yours were wearing them
> during your rescue.
>
> Damn right, I bother with providing my crew with every tool that can
>help save lifes and protect the boat and crew. Even if it is costly
>and time consuming... Thats the point. Even the Belize military
>suggested we should be packing offshore.
>
>Bet this fellow wished he had a gun
>http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2338215.ece
>
>http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/13/somalia.pirates.revenge/
Re-read your comment:
"But I'm sure some asshole can find one or two bad examples in every
large group and try to use that for a warped anti gun stance. "
Joe
> "Joe" <steelredcl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Are you Jim? Or is he your puppet? Are you just standing in for Jim?
Im more worried about points of access like airports. I went to the
Federal bldg here lately and they had many guards doing very good
work. They even seemed a bit agressive, but thats good.
>
>
>
> > The Muslim's aren't coming to get you, maybe you aren't based in reality
> > enough to own a gun.- Hide quoted text -
> >Maybe you are to sensitive to own a gun, or can't take a joke Jim.
> >And BTW many millions of teens serving in the military have no problem
> >becoming fire arms experts. And after military service many become
> >police ect.
>
> So now you're claiming Zac is an expert? Now that's funny!
No. I was claiming that Jim was being bias against the many millions
of young men in our military by pointing out one or two bad seeds to
tarnish the millions that do excellent work. I thought he was a real
asshole when he claimed "many cases of heavy handed examples" Do I
think Zac should be able to carry a gun in open waters? Yes. Is he a
gun expert? I have no ideal.
>
> >But I'm sure some asshole can find one or two bad examples in every
> >large group and try to use that for a warped anti gun stance. Most
> >idiots who can not properly master a firearm are dropped in boot
> >camp.
>
> Like Tim McVeigh?
Uhh he used a bomb.
have you Jon ever been through a military weapons training class?
If so why do people fail the course
>
> >You like bashing the military?
>
> Making things up again?
talking to Jim
>
> >Did you serve in the military?
>
> What's that got to do with anything??
ZOOM right over your head Jon.
Take some Midol
Joe
>
> --
> "j" ganz @@www.sailnow.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Joe
> "Joe" <steelredcl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b562f66b-787a-4f7a...@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 9, 11:38 am, "Capt. JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Joe" <steelredcl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:ea6927a7-a661-429d...@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jul 8, 1:50 pm, "Capt. JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote:
>
> > It's not worth the hassle for the slightly chance the
>
> > > weapon would be a benefit. 99.999 percent of the time there's either no
> > > problem and no reason to carry one or there isn't anything you can do.
> > >99.999 percent of the time you do not need a liferaft or an EPIRB why
> > >hassle with it, it's expensive and time consuming..
>
> > Because the first is a matter of hassling with the legalities of multiple
> > countries; whereas, the EPIRB and raft might actually save your life.
> >Are you claiming a gun used by someone who knows how to use it can not
> >save a life? And btw what hassles and expense have you had clearing
> >weapons in any country? I've cleared weapons in many countries
> >including Mexico and it did not cost a penny, and the only time
> >conusming part was giving customs 24 hr notice of departure so they
> >could return the weapon if it was removed from the vessel or to get
> >tehm to remove their lock from the weapons locker.
>
> Never said that. You're just ranting. Re-read what I wrote and get back to
> me.
You implied it when you said and I qoute
" whereas, the EPIRB and raft might actually save your life."
That implys that a gun it not in the class of a raft or epirb in the
life saving ability.
It's not a rant.
It's more like you just do not have the ability to feel comportable
using that specific tool ie: Gun. You and Jim seek bad examples to
flout because you feel it's more dangerious to you than any would be
attacker. And thats OK Jon.
Whats the hassle? Your going to go through the legal steps entering
any ones waters.
you should throw your knives over too,
>
> If you don't have the weapon, what good is it doing you in a Mexican
> lockup??????????
You are in town..ashore and the local officals "police" prevent rouge
gangs from attacking you or your crew to the most part. Many Marinas
provide security,. and other sailors with keep an eye on your boat.
In open waters there are not police (anyone) close enough to be of any
use. Hope this helps.
>
> > Why bother with a PFD? I noticed that your and yours were wearing them
> > during your rescue.
>
> > Damn right, I bother with providing my crew with every tool that can
> >help save lifes and protect the boat and crew. Even if it is costly
> >and time consuming... Thats the point. Even the Belize military
> >suggested we should be packing offshore.
>
> >Bet this fellow wished he had a gun
> >http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2338215.ece
>
> >http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/13/somalia.pirates.revenge/
>
> Re-read your comment:
>
> "But I'm sure some asshole can find one or two bad examples in every
> large group and try to use that for a warped anti gun stance. "
>
Problem is it's growing and growing, you can google up 1000's of
recent attacks.
The owner of Mr Bean did not have a gun, neither did the pirates, they
used another tool a hammer. It's all about proper training on how to
use a tool.
Capt. JG
>
> Come one. You seriously believe that taking off your shoes is going to
> protect you? Our Federal buildings are unprotected... recent CNN report.
> Our
> chem plants are unprotected.
>Are you Jim? Or is he your puppet? Are you just standing in for Jim?
I think Jim's doing fine on his own. Are you not interested in the facts?
> Im more worried about points of access like airports. I went to the
>Federal bldg here lately and they had many guards doing very good
>work. They even seemed a bit agressive, but thats good.
Yeah, well, according the GAO, they're not doing what they should.
>
>
>
> > The Muslim's aren't coming to get you, maybe you aren't based in reality
> > enough to own a gun.- Hide quoted text -
> >Maybe you are to sensitive to own a gun, or can't take a joke Jim.
> >And BTW many millions of teens serving in the military have no problem
> >becoming fire arms experts. And after military service many become
> >police ect.
>
> So now you're claiming Zac is an expert? Now that's funny!
>No. I was claiming that Jim was being bias against the many millions
>of young men in our military by pointing out one or two bad seeds to
>tarnish the millions that do excellent work. I thought he was a real
>asshole when he claimed "many cases of heavy handed examples" Do I
>think Zac should be able to carry a gun in open waters? Yes. Is he a
>gun expert? I have no ideal.
Based on what? Why is it that if someone criticized something about the
gov't that equals anti-military or non-patriotism?
There are many cases of heavy-handed examples from the military. So what?
Should we just sweep that under the rug?
Carrying a gun in open waters isn't the problem. All countries have rules
and regs. When you visit them, you have to deal with them.
Take a guess about if he is or isn't an expert....
>
> >But I'm sure some asshole can find one or two bad examples in every
> >large group and try to use that for a warped anti gun stance. Most
> >idiots who can not properly master a firearm are dropped in boot
> >camp.
>
> Like Tim McVeigh?
>Uhh he used a bomb.
But he and his kind are a much greater threat in the domestic arena.
>have you Jon ever been through a military weapons training class?
>If so why do people fail the course
Has nothing to do with the question. People fail basic math classes. What's
that got to do with the price of beans in China?
>
> >You like bashing the military?
>
> Making things up again?
talking to Jim
>
> >Did you serve in the military?
>
> What's that got to do with anything??
>ZOOM right over your head Jon.
>Take some Midol
Ah, ok. Now it's personal attack time? I get it.
>
> --
> "j" ganz @@www.sailnow.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Capt. JG
> Never said that. You're just ranting. Re-read what I wrote and get back to
> me.
>You implied it when you said and I qoute
>" whereas, the EPIRB and raft might actually save your life."
So you're now claiming that a gun is more likely to save your life? You need
to look at some facts occasionally.
>That implys that a gun it not in the class of a raft or epirb in the
>life saving ability.
It isn't in the case cited.
> It's more like you just do not have the ability to feel comportable
>using that specific tool ie: Gun. You and Jim seek bad examples to
>flout because you feel it's more dangerious to you than any would be
>attacker. And thats OK Jon.
Now you're just making things up, and you're supposing things that you know
nothing about.
> Whats the hassle? Your going to go through the legal steps entering
>any ones waters.
And, now is a gun a useful tool if it's locked away by the authorities until
you leave?
> you should throw your knives over too,
I'm not going to bring a knife to a gunfight. lol
>
> If you don't have the weapon, what good is it doing you in a Mexican
> lockup??????????
>You are in town..ashore and the local officals "police" prevent rouge
>gangs from attacking you or your crew to the most part. Many Marinas
>provide security,. and other sailors with keep an eye on your boat.
Huh? I thought we were talking about guns on boats. Now you want to carry
one around town? Or, are you just making my argument for me?
>In open waters there are not police (anyone) close enough to be of any
>use. Hope this helps.
In open waters, carrying one is just fine, but if you think you're going to
stop heavily armed pirates of Thailand, you're looney.
>
> > Why bother with a PFD? I noticed that your and yours were wearing them
> > during your rescue.
>
> > Damn right, I bother with providing my crew with every tool that can
> >help save lifes and protect the boat and crew. Even if it is costly
> >and time consuming... Thats the point. Even the Belize military
> >suggested we should be packing offshore.
>
> >Bet this fellow wished he had a gun
> >http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2338215.ece
>
> >http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/13/somalia.pirates.revenge/
>
> Re-read your comment:
>
> "But I'm sure some asshole can find one or two bad examples in every
> large group and try to use that for a warped anti gun stance. "
>
>Problem is it's growing and growing, you can google up 1000's of
>recent attacks.
I can google up 1000s of other things also. Doesn't make it a legitimate
case for bring weapons aboard a boat that has no reasonable chance of either
needing one or being able to use it to your advantage.
>The owner of Mr Bean did not have a gun, neither did the pirates, they
>used another tool a hammer. It's all about proper training on how to
>use a tool.
As I've said repeatedly (oh wait, you said it), one can always find an
example that fits a particular view.
Jim
> I was claiming that Jim was being bias against the many millions
> of young men in our military by pointing out one or two bad seeds to
> tarnish the millions that do excellent work.
There are too many examples of war not being what we are told to believe
it is. Like the photos of abuse that were blamed on "one or two bad
seeds," that isn't how it happens.
I thought he was a real
> asshole when he claimed "many cases of heavy handed examples"
I thought your "Muslims are coming to get us" joke showed you to be a
die hard right wing nut, or, just "asshole," in your language, will do
nicely.
And your "joke" provided proof.
Do I
> think Zac should be able to carry a gun in open waters? Yes. Is he a
> gun expert?
No one 17, and maybe no one, should carry a weapon as powerful as the
one he had. The bullet can go through more than you might want.
It would only take one mis-fired shot to go through the bottom of a boat.
I have no ideal.
You have no idea. An ideal is something else you don't show yourself to
have.
Jim
>I was claiming that Jim was being bias against the many millions
>> of young men in our military by pointing out one or two bad seeds to
>> tarnish the millions that do excellent work.
There are too many examples of war not being what we are told to believe
it is. Like the photos of abuse that were blamed on "one or two bad
seeds," that isn't how it happens.
>I thought he was a real
>> asshole when he claimed "many cases of heavy handed examples"
I thought your "Muslims are coming to get us" joke showed you to be a
die hard right wing nut, or, just "asshole," in your language, will do
nicely.
And your "joke" provided proof.
>Do I
>> think Zac should be able to carry a gun in open waters? Yes. Is he a
>> gun expert?
No one 17, and maybe no one, should carry a weapon as powerful as the
one he had on a boat. The bullet can go through more than you might want.
Jim
> On Jul 9, 1:19 pm, "Capt. JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote:
>> "Joe" <steelredcl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:b3a1f7f1-52b1-4f79...@i6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 9, 10:27 am, Jim <j...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was claiming that Jim was being bias against the many millions
>> of young men in our military by pointing out one or two bad seeds to
>> tarnish the millions that do excellent work.
There are too many examples of war not being what we are told to believe
it is. Like the photos of abuse that were blamed on "one or two bad
seeds," that isn't how it happens.
> I thought he was a real
>> asshole when he claimed "many cases of heavy handed examples"
I thought your "Muslims are coming to get us" joke showed you to be a
die hard right wing nut, or, just "asshole," in your language, will do
nicely.
And your "joke" provided proof.
> Do I
>> think Zac should be able to carry a gun in open waters? Yes. Is he a
>> gun expert?
No one 17, and maybe no one, should carry a weapon as powerful as the
Jim
to have made that error.
Vic Smith
Leaving politics aside, isn't whether or not to have a firearm on
board a personal decision?
Do you fear for yourself that a cruiser may carry a firearm?
It doesn't bother me.
Whether or not I'd carry one myself when cruising I can't answer.
Probably not, because I'd most likely be out-gunned, and the danger
might outweigh the benefit.
I mean, you don't bring a .357 to an AK-47 fight.
But I'm not really sure.
Thing is, it doesn't bother me that others may choose to arm
themselves.
I don't intend to pirate anybody.
--Vic
Joe
> Joe wrote:
> > On Jul 9, 1:19 pm, "Capt. JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote:
> >> "Joe" <steelredcl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:b3a1f7f1-52b1-4f79...@i6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Jul 9, 10:27 am, Jim <j...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I was claiming that Jim was being bias against the many millions
> >> of young men in our military by pointing out one or two bad seeds to
> >> tarnish the millions that do excellent work.
>
> There are too many examples of war not being what we are told to believe
> it is. Like the photos of abuse that were blamed on "one or two bad
> seeds," that isn't how it happens.
You could have just said, NO I never served my country and do not have
a clue Jim
>
> > I thought he was a real
> >> asshole when he claimed "many cases of heavy handed examples"
>
> I thought your "Muslims are coming to get us" joke showed you to be a
> die hard right wing nut, or, just "asshole," in your language, will do
> nicely.
It was a liberals bend over and take it joke, not a muslim bashing
joke.
Hit a raw nerve Jim? Are you such a racist you think only muslim
people praise Allah before they attempt murder?
>
> And your "joke" provided proof.
I'm a right wing nut because I'd rather be able to defend myself and
crew?.. Ok
Whats that make you? a fudge packing left wing liberal cry baby douch
bag perhaps.
>
> > Do I
> >> think Zac should be able to carry a gun in open waters? Yes. Is he a
> >> gun expert?
>
> No one 17, and maybe no one, should carry a weapon as powerful as the
> one he had on a boat. The bullet can go through more than you might want.
Is this your gun Jim? http://apathetic-usa.com/images/Liberal_Gun.jpg
>
> It would only take one mis-fired shot to go through the bottom of a boat.
>
> > I have no ideal.
>
> You have no idea. An ideal is something else you don't show yourself to
> have.
I know its hard for you to follow along Jim, I have no ideal if Zac is
a gun expert or not. I have an ideal you are a douch bag.
See...... you are wrong again
Joe
Jim
Whether to have a gun, or not is certainly up to debate. If you go by
statistics, and you should in Las Vegas at least, guns aren't problem
solvers. But this isn't really the issue here.
The issue is one of a 17 year old armed with a very powerful weapon. A
weapon that would do far more damage to everything involved than would
be necessary.
17 year olds, no matter what you say, do not have the life experience to
make good decisions with guns.
That gun, if fired in a position that a scared teenager would have been
holding it, probably pointed down, awaiting the "quick draw," would have
ended his trip very quickly as the boat would have had a very large hole
in it.
I'd say he would have been lucky to just have killed his boat, it looks
like innocent fishermen had that gun pointed their way.
A lot of lives are ruined every day by a teenager with a gun.
Most cruisers are middle aged. They MIGHT have more experience dealing
with quick life/death decisions. 17, no way, a bad idea.
The size of the gun proves to me it wasn't thought out very well by
rational people.
Joe
> The subject title seems to say Zac was Muslim bashing. He wasn't, sorry
> to have made that error.
You're sorry all right. Do you bash all teens, or just the ones
sailing the world or in the military that make you look like a
sniveling coward?
Joe
Jim
Joe;
You are full of assumptions and you leave little room for actual facts.
You make it up as you go. What you think is funny isn't. Your
ignorance is clear to all except you.
I would say you are very religious and vote for, well, we will leave
politics out of this.
I'll make an assumption of my own:
You think Sara Palin is a sensible, smart woman.
Enough said.
Joe
>
> - Show quoted text -
The size of the gun proves nothing, except you know nothing about
guns. More people are killed with .22's than any other caliber. A 357
is OK for sinking boats if you put enough rounds near the water
line...And Jim,,that's the waterline of the attacking boat not your
own...duh. Zac would know that, seems to complicated for you to deal
with. Doing your made up quick draw BS.
You must have been a real basket case at 17.
Joe
Jim
Easily rattled, aren't you?
I hope you don't have a gun with that temper.
I didn't bash Zac, but I'll tell anyone to their face that they are not
safer with a gun.
Quick with the name calling. What a piece of work you are.
A coward is one who hides behind a gun.
Jim
There was no attack. Just a scared teenager with a gun, who probably
was seconds from making a huge mistake.
I can't help but notice that you regress into name calling when your
argument is lacking substance.
Lew Hodgett
"Jim" wrote:
> I'll make an assumption of my own:
> You think Sara Palin is a sensible, smart woman.
Then she opens her mouth and dispels all doubt.
Lew
Jim
> On Jul 9, 8:06 pm, Jim <j...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Joe wrote:
>> There are too many examples of war not being what we are told to believe
>> it is. Like the photos of abuse that were blamed on "one or two bad
>> seeds," that isn't how it happens.
>
> You could have just said, NO I never served my country and do not have
> a clue Jim
Didn't do well in Critical Thinking, did you?
Trying to take the argument in a meaningless direction is an easily
recognized tactic, called a "Red Herring."
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html
Description of Red Herring
A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in
order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to
"win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to
another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:
Topic A is under discussion.
Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when
topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
Topic A is abandoned.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because merely changing the topic
of discussion hardly counts as an argument against a claim.
You might want to read up on some of the other fallacies at that web
site. They work on people who aren't aware of the tactic.
Jim
Jim
>> I thought your "Muslims are coming to get us" joke showed you to be a
>> die hard right wing nut, or, just "asshole," in your language, will do
>> nicely.
>
> It was a liberals bend over and take it joke, not a muslim bashing
> joke.
>
>
> Joe
Unfortunately, your idea of a "Bend over and take it" joke says a lot
about you.
Any one who would say such a thing has some serious issues.
Don't play well with others, do you?
It is Muslim bashing.
Your misspellings and misuse of words says volumes about where you are
coming from.
Joe
> >> It would only take one mis-fired shot to go through the bottom of a boat.
>
> >> > I have no ideal.
>
> >> You have no idea. An ideal is something else you don't show yourself to
> >> have.
>
> > I know its hard for you to follow along Jim, I have no ideal if Zac is
> > a gun expert or not. I have an ideal you are a douch bag.
>
> > See...... you are wrong again
>
> > Joe
>
> Joe;
> You are full of assumptions and you leave little room for actual facts.
The facts are Zac made it around and packed a gun, and no one was
hurt, murdered or pirated...Thats the facts Jimbo.... cry about it all
you want...
> You make it up as you go. What you think is funny isn't. Your
> ignorance is clear to all except you.
All...you mean you and Jon right? If you are speaking for someone else
let me know. A think you are full of assumptions and leave little room
for facts.
>
> I would say you are very religious and vote for, well, we will leave
> politics out of this.
I'd say you are wrong ..a clear trend on your part. Religion for the
most part is a tool use by people to oppress and control others. I do
think there is a higher power. Havent been to church in 20 years
except for a few wedding and funerals.
I'll make an assumption..You were an abused raped catholic alter boy,
that's why you hate religion right ?
'll make an assumption of my own:
> You think Sara Palin is a sensible, smart woman.
What has that to do with guns or cruising? I'd assume she is better
looking than any woman you have ever been with, and smarter. But thats
not saying much as women like men who can protect them... not toss
them to the pirates with guns while begging for mercy.
Joe
Lew Hodgett
"Jim" wrote:
> As does Joe.
Nah, he is the reason kill files exist.
Lew
Jim
>
>..a clear trend on your part. Religion for the
> most part is a tool use by people to oppress and control others.
We agree on something.
Yes it is a clear trend on my part. The praying and worshiping detracts
from Zac's accomplishment. God is real to small children and those
babbling about religion among the mentally unstable. Everyone else
knows, but might be scared to admit the truth.
>
> I'll make an assumption..You were an abused raped catholic alter boy,
> that's why you hate religion right ?
>
Didn't take long to revert to name calling.
The way you throw around the term "Liberal" as a swear word tells me
where your beliefs lie.
I do hate religion, because it's a tool used to control people who mean
well, but often serve a master other than the one they think they are
serving. As you said, oppress and control is what religion does best.
Religion is, evil.
Capt. JG
news:0p4d55df2019afjkh...@4ax.com...
I think that's right. My decision is to not carry a firearm. I think it's a
mistake, and I've stated why, but to denegrate someone for either deciding
to do so or to not do so, is not appropriate to the discussion.
Capt. JG
If all you can do is personally attack someone, there's not much to discuss
Joe.
Capt. JG
best you have, you've got a long way to go to be a real person.
"Joe" <steelr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5c1f0c0f-0a87-4479...@k1g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Joe
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
Joe
> Joe wrote:
>
> >..a clear trend on your part. Religion for the
> > most part is a tool use by people to oppress and control others.
>
> We agree on something.
>
> Yes it is a clear trend on my part. The praying and worshiping detracts
> from Zac's accomplishment. God is real to small children and those
> babbling about religion among the mentally unstable. Everyone else
> knows, but might be scared to admit the truth.
>
>
> > I'll make an assumption..You were an abused raped catholic alter boy,
> > that's why you hate religion right ?
>
> Didn't take long to revert to name calling.
name calling? WTF... your hate of religion has to be based on personal
experience. It's clear you are gulliable and most likely abused by
someone using religion as a tool. Why else would you garnish such a
hate of religion to call it "Evil"
Did someone pistol whip you too?
>
> The way you throw around the term "Liberal" as a swear word tells me
> where your beliefs lie.
the way you throw around "right wing" as a swear word shows me where
your beliefs lie....SO WHAT? BFD
>
> I do hate religion, because it's a tool used to control people who mean
> well, but often serve a master other than the one they think they are
> serving. As you said, oppress and control is what religion does best.
You seem consumed with hate.
> Religion is, evil.
No it is not, neither are guns. It's people like you that "hate" that
are Evil. People like you who would judge millions of religious people
as a group, not people by their own merits
You are a hypocrite Jim. You defend the poor Muslim people from a
joke ..yet you hate religion and call it "Evil". Got news for you
Jim....Muslim is group of people who follow a religion of Islam. Do
you "Hate" them too?
Joe
Joe
> Your misspellings and misuse of words says volumes about where you are
> coming from.
Spelling Nazi
a person who freaks out when a little spelling mistake has occured or
has be a constant little asshole about it.
person a: here's my thesis for the pythagoream theorem
persin b: OMG PYTHAGOREAM! JIHAD!
Lew Hodgett
> Religion is, evil.
Nah, it is simply the biggest con in the history of the planet.
Fed by man's unwillingness to accept the fact that death is the end.
Lew
Jim
I had a good friend decide to join a cult years ago. Lead me to read
Steve Allen's old books he wrote about his son's experiences with
Christian cults, and a few books on mind control (this was before the
Net made it so easy.)
Very interesting subject, mind control. There are the basic four tenets
of mind control. Organized religion uses all of these, and uses them well.
http://www.ex-cult.org/fwbo/MC20mins.htm
The interesting thing to me is that mind control does not work on you if
you are aware it is being used. Everyone should know what these tactics
are to protect themselves.
My old friend's cult has become one of the largest, and fastest growing
"churches" that many belong to today. They are unaware of the reasons
their church got so powerful.
Yes I hate religion as it is a tool used in a predictable way, to gain
control over, mostly, the weak.
Zac might out grow of his need for religion, and that cross on his boat
bottom will be an embarrassment that will live on in pictures.
I'm embarrassed for him.
Looking to God all the time ruined Zac's trip for me. And calling daddy
all the time on the phone.
When your head stay goes, get out on deck and fix it, don't call daddy
and ask him what to do, unless daddy gets some of the credit.
Stephen Trapani
> Whether to have a gun, or not is certainly up to debate. If you go by
> statistics, and you should in Las Vegas at least, guns aren't problem
> solvers. But this isn't really the issue here.
>
> The issue is one of a 17 year old armed with a very powerful weapon. A
> weapon that would do far more damage to everything involved than would
> be necessary.
>
> 17 year olds, no matter what you say, do not have the life experience to
> make good decisions with guns.
People are individuals. Ageism is no better than racism. Just like there
are 21 year olds, 30 year olds and 50 year olds who shouldn't have a
gun, there are plenty of 17 years olds with more than enough of
everything it takes to use guns safely. A 17 year old with the maturity
to be the youngest human being to ever sail around the world is
obviously a very strong candidate for one with adequate maturity to use
a gun wisely.
> That gun, if fired in a position that a scared teenager would have been
> holding it, probably pointed down, awaiting the "quick draw," would have
> ended his trip very quickly as the boat would have had a very large hole
> in it.
>
> I'd say he would have been lucky to just have killed his boat, it looks
> like innocent fishermen had that gun pointed their way.
They could easily have been pirates who got close enough to see that
Zacks boat wasn't worth pirating and then left. There probably aren't
too many other people who would have any reason to approach and follow a
boat like they did.
Regardless, a gun on a small sailboat is probably the best guarantee of
never being bothered by pirates. If pirates are thinking about boarding
a small cruiser, surely they suspect the effort won't be worth it.
Firing a few warning shots their way if they get too close (no
marksmanship necessary) will surely tip the scales toward the side of
them deciding to wait for a bigger and safer fish to rob.
Stephen
Stephen Trapani
> I'm a right wing nut because I'd rather be able to defend myself and
> crew?.. Ok
> Whats that make you? a fudge packing left wing liberal cry baby douch
> bag perhaps.
A fudge packing left wing liberal cry baby douch bag who'd rather take
it up the ass and watch the rest of his crew take it up that ass than
defend them.
Stephen
Joe
> Whew... you need to look in the mirror at least one more time. If this the
> best you have, you've got a long way to go to be a real person.
Oh my gosh..did it make you blush Jon?
Jims a dick. No wonder you are always rushing to butt in on his
behalf.
Jimbo attacked the military, Zac's decision, his parents judgement,
guns, sara palin, anyone who follows a religion, homeland
security, .ect ect..ect.
That may be fine with you but I find it offensive enough to call him
an asshole on behalf of every 17 YO who ever served in the military.
On behalf of Sara. On behalf of every person who attends a church or
practices a religion.
And BTW just who are you to be judging me? You go look in a
mirror..... if you can stand it.
Joe
jbsl...@gmail.com
>Vic Smith wrote:
>> On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:56:50 -0700, Jim <j...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Leaving politics aside, isn't whether or not to have a firearm on
>> board a personal decision?
>> Do you fear for yourself that a cruiser may carry a firearm?
>> It doesn't bother me.
>> Whether or not I'd carry one myself when cruising I can't answer.
>> Probably not, because I'd most likely be out-gunned, and the danger
>> might outweigh the benefit.
>> I mean, you don't bring a .357 to an AK-47 fight.
>> But I'm not really sure.
>> Thing is, it doesn't bother me that others may choose to arm
>> themselves.
>> I don't intend to pirate anybody.
>>
>> --Vic
>
>Whether to have a gun, or not is certainly up to debate. If you go by
>statistics, and you should in Las Vegas at least, guns aren't problem
>solvers. But this isn't really the issue here.
>
>The issue is one of a 17 year old armed with a very powerful weapon. A
>weapon that would do far more damage to everything involved than would
>be necessary.
Lets be rational about things. It is not a particularly powerful
handgun. And what difference does the "power" really make anyway. I
had an Uncle who used to shoot dear out of season (well, in season
too) but his gun of choice was a .22 rifle. One shot, one deer.
>17 year olds, no matter what you say, do not have the life experience to
>make good decisions with guns.
What decision? Whether to fire the weapon, or not? Probably as
qualified as anyone else of the same intelligence. The answer, "when
he needs to protect himself".
>
>That gun, if fired in a position that a scared teenager would have been
>holding it, probably pointed down, awaiting the "quick draw," would have
>ended his trip very quickly as the boat would have had a very large hole
>in it.
Nope. It would put a 0.375 inch hole in the boat.
>I'd say he would have been lucky to just have killed his boat, it looks
>like innocent fishermen had that gun pointed their way.
We'll never know as we weren't there, were we?
>A lot of lives are ruined every day by a teenager with a gun.
>
>Most cruisers are middle aged. They MIGHT have more experience dealing
>with quick life/death decisions. 17, no way, a bad idea.
That is a ludicrous suggestion. Is there some reason that a middle
aged bloke who's life's experience may well be watching TV any more
qualified to determine when his life is in danger then a young guy?
>The size of the gun proves to me it wasn't thought out very well by
>rational people.
Your continual mention of how BIG the gun is seems to indicate that
you really do not know much about guns and thus shouldn't be
commenting on them.
The fact is that a .357 is, today, a mid power cartridge.
jbsl...@gmail.com
Since he did not "make a mistake" he was not "seconds away from making
a mistake". And, since he didn't shoot it is logical to believe that
he was never in any danger of making a mistake.
He was simply "prepared".
Jim
Jim
Wow, name calling in the extreme. Always thought you were better than that.
Jim
To get the fires going, and (some) people thinking, here's a web site
that you might find interesting, if you have an open mind.
http://www.rickross.com/groups/icc.html
This is the cult I referred to. Today they have so much money that they
bought Pepperdine University.
The founder, Kip McKeon was bounced in '97, and they attempted to clean
up their image.
Hate to say it, but Zac's followers remind me of those I knew who were
under the influence of the cult. I'll bet they are.
Donate to the church often, they need your money.
Get out Zac, while you can.
Capt. JG
"Joe" <steelr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:65a2e654-296a-4518...@x3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Joe
Capt. JG
news:_QA5m.34259$ml7....@newsfe18.iad...
Sounds like you. Did I miss something?
jbsl...@gmail.com
The point is that they didn't and he didn't so all of the thrilling
suppositions are just that. Nothing happened.
Why make wild statements about what didn't happened? A tsunami MIGHT
have happened and sunk the fishing boat - but it didn't. Should we be
agonizing about big waves?
Jim
It's time to end this as we don't agree, and never will, until?
You have no problem with a kid with a powerful gun, I do. Enough said.
Joe
> Jim wrote:
> > Lew Hodgett wrote:
> >> "Jim" wrote:
>
> >>> Religion is, evil.
>
> >> Nah, it is simply the biggest con in the history of the planet.
>
> >> Fed by man's unwillingness to accept the fact that death is the end.
>
> >> Lew
>
> > I had a good friend decide to join a cult years ago.
Can you blame him? If you were a "good friend" I'd join any cult just
to get away from you. You are such an self centered, all controlling,
know-it-all asshole I'd join the heavens gate, or Jim Jones club and
share the kool aid to end the misery. With friends like you who needs
enemys?
>
> > Zac might out grow of his need for religion, and that cross on his boat
> > bottom will be an embarrassment that will live on in pictures.
>
> > I'm embarrassed for him.
OMG how will he ever get pass the shame of it all?
>
> > Looking to God all the time ruined Zac's trip for me. And calling daddy
> > all the time on the phone.
That was most likely his prime goal...ruining the trip for you. After
all you are the center of the universe.
>
> Donate to the church often, they need your money.
Did your best friend give all his money to a church instead of you?
Joe
>
jbsl...@gmail.com
You seem to have some sort of phobia about guns.
But no, I'd have no problem with a kid that I had raised with a gun of
any sort. I had my own .22 rifle when I was 12 years old and haven't
shot anyone yet.
We let 16 year old kids drive big powerful automobiles - which kill
more people then guns, by the way - with no qualms. Never a mention
about this kid running loose with a 300 HP, four door, people killer,
is there.
But a GUN! Oh My God! A Gun!
Why not talk about a baseball bat? Easy enough to whack a bloke with
an aluminum bat. Or a kitchen cleaver - favored weapon in the old Tong
Wars. Have a look at the chef's knife out there in the kitchen. It is
a bigger knife then the commandos carried....
Edward V became king of England in 1461, at the age of 19, after
raising an army and leading it to victory in the Battle of Towton but
apparently modern youth are a far more delicate breed and must be
protected from themselves.
Pitiful!
Richard Casady
<sail...@verizon.net> wrote:
>A 25mm flare shell makes a penetration a little larger than 25mm on
>entry into the human body, but burns its way thru the body until who
>knows how big the hole is coming out the back side.
And you know this how? I suspect that the projectile will not
penetrate much. It is not lead, it is a pellet of fireworks, and the
stuff used is not dense.
Casady
Bruce In Bangkok
I was going to post the question about how dangerous flares actually
are?
I've seen the movie scenes about the guy getting shot with the flare
and I also recall seeing something like "myth busters" that showed
that flares are really not very dangerous at all.
Does anyone know any facts about the question?
Cheers,
Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
JR
"Bruce In Bangkok" <decypher...@sig.line> wrote in message
news:taol559tvfm8l63v8...@4ax.com...
I don't know about the 'facts", but from personal experience I "know"
that a 12 gauge flare fired at a guy wearing a denim jacket will usually
bounce off
and scatter.
Regards,
JR
jds
uses of powerful weapons. he seemed to think i was old, mature, grown up
enough to handle them. turns out i was. i have weapons on my boat, in my
home and on my person at all times. if you have ever needed a weapon to keep
yourself or family alive, you understand what i mean. regards, j.d.
Capt. JG
And, because you were "matrure" enough to have them at that age, that means
all those 17 are? Hardly. It's a fact that a young person's brain isn't
fully mature (on average) until they're in their mid-20s.
I disagree with your assertion that you have them "on ..your.. person" at
all times, unless you never have to go on a plane trip, visit a Federal (or
State) building, or a bunch other places where they're restricted. Are you a
cop or in the military? When was the last time you needed a weapon to "keep
yourself or your family alive"? Where you on your boat? What were the facts?
I own guns and I see their place in society. I choose not to carry them
aboard, especially if I'm going to another country. You can choose
differently of course. The problem is that some people have decided that if
someone chooses not to carry a gun, that means they must be labelled as
weak, ineffectual, or "liberal," which is complete bs.
Joe
> "jds" <ssss> wrote in messagenews:4a5b6ae5$0$194$bb4e...@newscene.com...
> > hmmm, interesting. when i was 17 i was being trained by my uncle sam in
> > the uses of powerful weapons. he seemed to think i was old, mature, grown
> > up enough to handle them. turns out i was. i have weapons on my boat, in
> > my home and on my person at all times. if you have ever needed a weapon to
> > keep yourself or family alive, you understand what i mean. regards, j.d.
>
> And, because you were "matrure" enough to have them at that age, that means
> all those 17 are? Hardly. It's a fact that a young person's brain isn't
> fully mature (on average) until they're in their mid-20s.
Spelling Nazi, what about this 14 YO that just passed away?
Was he mature enough?
Youngest Marine to get MoH dies
After lying about age to join Corps, he covered 2 grenades with his
body on Iwo Jima
By Chris Talbott - The Associated Press
Posted : Monday Jun 9, 2008 19:05:37 EDT
JACKSON, Miss. — Jack Lucas, who at 14 lied his way into military
service during World War II and became the youngest Marine to receive
the Medal of Honor, died of cancer in the pre-dawn hours Thursday in a
Hattiesburg, Miss., hospital. He was 80.
Jacklyln “Jack” Lucas was just six days past his 17th birthday in
February 1945, when his heroism at Iwo Jima earned him the nation’s
highest military honor. He used his body to shield three fellow squad
members from two grenades, and was nearly killed when one exploded.
“A couple of grenades rolled into the trench,” Lucas said in an
Associated Press interview shortly before he received the medal from
President Truman in October 1945. “I hollered to my pals to get out
and did a Superman dive at the grenades. I wasn’t a Superman after I
got hit. I let out one helluva scream when that thing went off.”
He was left with more than 250 pieces of shrapnel in his body and in
every major organ and endured 26 surgeries in the months after Iwo
Jima.
“By his inspiring action and valiant spirit of self-sacrifice, he not
only protected his comrades from certain injury or possible death but
also enabled them to rout the Japanese patrol and continue the
advance,” the Medal of Honor citation said.
In the AP interview, written as a first-person account under his name,
he recalled the months he spent in a hospital.
“Soon as I rest up, I imagine I’ll run for president,” the story
concluded. “Ain’t I the hero, though?”
Big for his age and eager to serve, Lucas forged his mother’s
signature on an enlistment waiver and joined the Marines at 14.
Military censors discovered his age through a letter to his 15-year-
old girlfriend.
“They had him driving a truck in Hawaii because his age was discovered
and they threatened to send him home,” said D.K. Drum, who wrote
Lucas’ story in the 2006 book “Indestructible.” “He said if they sent
him home, he would just join the Army.”
Lucas eventually stowed away aboard a Navy ship headed for combat in
the Pacific Ocean. He turned himself in to avoid being listed as a
deserter and volunteered to fight, and the officers onboard allowed
him to fight the Japanese.
“They did not know his age. He didn’t give it up and they didn’t ask,”
Drum said.
Born in Plymouth, N.C., on Feb. 14, 1928, Edwards was a 13-year-old
cadet captain in a military academy when the Japanese bombed Pearl
Harbor.
“I would not settle for watching from the sidelines when the United
States was in such desperate need of support from its citizens,” Lucas
said in “Indestructible.” “Everyone was needed to do his part and I
could not do mine by remaining in North Carolina.”
After the war, Lucas earned a business degree from High Point
University and raised, processed and sold beef in the Washington,
D.C., area. In the 1960s, he joined the Army and became a paratrooper,
Drum said, to conquer his fear of heights. On a training jump, both of
his parachutes failed.
“He was the last one out of the airplane and the first one on the
ground,” Drum said.
He was diagnosed with a form of leukemia in April and spent his last
days in the hospital with family and friends, including his wife,
Ruby, standing vigil.
>
> I disagree with your assertion that you have them "on ..your.. person" at
> all times, unless you never have to go on a plane trip, visit a Federal (or
> State) building, or a bunch other places where they're restricted. Are you a
> cop or in the military? When was the last time you needed a weapon to "keep
> yourself or your family alive"? Where you on your boat? What were the facts?
Why doubt the man?
>
> I own guns and I see their place in society.
I'm curious. If they are not for protection in the one place you only
yourself to rely on, where else is a more proper place?
I choose not to carry them
> aboard, especially if I'm going to another country. You can choose
> differently of course. The problem is that some people have decided that if
> someone chooses not to carry a gun, that means they must be labelled as
> weak, ineffectual, or "liberal," which is complete bs.
>
No the problem is if you carry a gun, some snot nose weak liberal
has a problem with it, and assumes you are a "right wing nut".
Joe
> --
> "j" ganz @@www.sailnow.com
Capt. JG
On Jul 13, 12:38 pm, "Capt. JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote:
> "jds" <ssss> wrote in messagenews:4a5b6ae5$0$194$bb4e...@newscene.com...
> > hmmm, interesting. when i was 17 i was being trained by my uncle sam in
> > the uses of powerful weapons. he seemed to think i was old, mature,
> > grown
> > up enough to handle them. turns out i was. i have weapons on my boat, in
> > my home and on my person at all times. if you have ever needed a weapon
> > to
> > keep yourself or family alive, you understand what i mean. regards, j.d.
>
> And, because you were "matrure" enough to have them at that age, that
> means
> all those 17 are? Hardly. It's a fact that a young person's brain isn't
> fully mature (on average) until they're in their mid-20s.
>Spelling Nazi, what about this 14 YO that just passed away?
>Was he mature enough?
What's your problem joey. I didn't correct your spelling. Could you possibly
find an example of a rec. vehicle being attacked whereby it was protected by
a teenager with a gun in the last 10 years? I bet there's one or two.
<< unrelated crap removed >>
> I disagree with your assertion that you have them "on ..your.. person" at
> all times, unless you never have to go on a plane trip, visit a Federal
> (or
> State) building, or a bunch other places where they're restricted. Are you
> a
> cop or in the military? When was the last time you needed a weapon to
> "keep
> yourself or your family alive"? Where you on your boat? What were the
> facts?
>Why doubt the man?
Because it's sounds like bs. Why do you believe him? Last I checked this is
usenet.
> I own guns and I see their place in society.
>I'm curious. If they are not for protection in the one place you only
>yourself to rely on, where else is a more proper place?
?? Their place in society is protected by the Constitution. I don't think a
boat in foreign waters qualifies, but as I've said many times, feel free.
I choose not to carry them
> aboard, especially if I'm going to another country. You can choose
> differently of course. The problem is that some people have decided that
> if
> someone chooses not to carry a gun, that means they must be labelled as
> weak, ineffectual, or "liberal," which is complete bs.
>
> No the problem is if you carry a gun, some snot nose weak liberal
has a problem with it, and assumes you are a "right wing nut".
?? Please show me where I said you're a right-wingnut with respect to this
discussion. I didn't. You're the one who starting flinging your sh*t.
> --
> "j" ganz @@www.sailnow.com
Wilbur Hubbard
news:udadnbSPz-0bDMbX...@posted.bayareasolutions...
Temper, temper! Ha ha! It looks like Gaynze forgot to take his meds again.
(Either that or an LSD flashback?)
Wilbur Hubbard
Stephen Trapani
> "jds" <ssss> wrote in message news:4a5b6ae5$0$194$bb4e...@newscene.com...
>> hmmm, interesting. when i was 17 i was being trained by my uncle sam in
>> the uses of powerful weapons. he seemed to think i was old, mature, grown
>> up enough to handle them. turns out i was. i have weapons on my boat, in
>> my home and on my person at all times. if you have ever needed a weapon to
>> keep yourself or family alive, you understand what i mean. regards, j.d.
>
>
> And, because you were "matrure" enough to have them at that age, that means
> all those 17 are? Hardly.
Haha. Now you're trying to entirely change the argument. You were
claiming Zak shouldn't have a gun because he is 17. The only way that
argument works is if *no* 17 yo's are old enough to use guns safely,
because if some are, Zak might be one of them.
Now you are using the straw man tactic to change the opponents argument
when you realize the side you are on is wrong. Lame.
Stephen
jds
> >
> I disagree with your assertion that you have them "on ..your.. person" at
> all times, unless you never have to go on a plane trip, visit a Federal
> (or State) building, or a bunch other places where they're restricted. Are
> you a cop or in the military?
drug enforcement agent, retired in march. my office was in a federal
building. when flying, as long as i was carrying out my job, i carried. if
it was a pleasure trip i wouldnt. could have, but didnt.
When was the last time you needed a weapon to "keep
> yourself or your family alive"? Where you on your boat? What were the
> facts?
myself?? too many to count. the june before last my wife of 39 years and i
were out driving around in our z06. some mutt at a stop light thought he
wanted our car and my wife. for some reason known only to god, i didnt kill
him, but he wont be jacking anyone else for a while. i keep a shotgun on the
boat and my sidearm, a .45 acp.
its none of my business if you own weapons or not. this is america and the
choice is yours. thats your right. when you kiss your wife goodnight and
turn out the lights to go to bed, do me a favor. give a passing thought to
the people that carry weapons to keep you and yours safe. people like me.
now, call me anything you wish. sleep tight. regards, j.d.
noauth
It's pretty sad when a rapist is allowed to go free!
I figured out what happened to this poor boy. 50% or more of 5% of inmates are raped by the jailers.
Gregory Hall = Cecil Warren = CONVICTED RAPIST!
You've failed to register as a SEX OFFENDER. This is punishable by imprisonment!
http://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/flyer.do?personId=35467
Call 1-888-357-7332 to report him. He lives in Islamorada, Florida.
Capt. JG
No, I never said that. That was Jim I believe. Haha. You need to re-read
what I said.
Capt. JG
> >
>> >
>> I disagree with your assertion that you have them "on ..your.. person" at
>> all times, unless you never have to go on a plane trip, visit a Federal
>> (or State) building, or a bunch other places where they're restricted.
>> Are you a cop or in the military?
>
> drug enforcement agent, retired in march. my office was in a federal
> building. when flying, as long as i was carrying out my job, i carried. if
> it was a pleasure trip i wouldnt. could have, but didnt.
So, DEA retired. Do they still let you carry your weapon into Fed or State
buildings or get on a plane with one? I doubt it.
> When was the last time you needed a weapon to "keep
>> yourself or your family alive"? Where you on your boat? What were the
>> facts?
>
> myself?? too many to count. the june before last my wife of 39 years and i
> were out driving around in our z06. some mutt at a stop light thought he
> wanted our car and my wife. for some reason known only to god, i didnt
> kill him, but he wont be jacking anyone else for a while. i keep a shotgun
> on the boat and my sidearm, a .45 acp.
So, you weren't on your boat. You carry the shotgun and the sidearm on your
boat, but do you travel to foreign ports? I doubt it. If so, please let us
know which ones.
> its none of my business if you own weapons or not. this is america and the
> choice is yours. thats your right. when you kiss your wife goodnight and
> turn out the lights to go to bed, do me a favor. give a passing thought to
> the people that carry weapons to keep you and yours safe. people like me.
> now, call me anything you wish. sleep tight. regards, j.d.
In my home? I'm not concerned about it, but as I've said before I own
several weapons. Not sure what this or honoring law enforcement personnel
has to do with taking boats with guns to foreign shores, but please feel
free to tell us.