Commerical Assistance Towing
Sail4Mail
commercial assistance tow boat operators. After reading the article in CW,
hearing some horror stories from other cruisers, and looking at the sites such
as Safe Sea's excellent Marine Salvage info at :
http://www.safesea.com/index.html
I hope I never have to use their services. Clearly you must be prepared to
extricate your vessel from all but the most serious grounding or endure a
significant dollar expense.. It would also interesting to read about the
planning and strategies (successful or not), employed by others.
Mark Bothum
Sail4Mail wrote in message <19981105142019...@ng-fb2.aol.com>...
>It might be interesting to learn of cruisers' experiences with the various
>commercial assistance tow boat operators.
Okay sure why not I'll go first nobody laugh or I'll kick the cat.
I ran outta gas last year. (I'll skipping the sordid details.)
I was roughly 45 miles from home when I clambered up top. My buddy,
sitting with a wide grin and sunglasses, yells - "How we doing?"
I eventually get around to looking at the gas gauge and yell, "We're
f&*%^ed."
So I shut 'er down and we mulled currents, tides, winds, and best cruising
speed, then went for it...and died 10 miles short.
*BUT*
We'd made it around the southern tip of Camano island, which greatly
increased
the small boat traffic, so things were actually looking better, especially
after we'd
waved down this beautiful 50 foot I-dunno-what and their skipper laughs and
says,
"Sure, I've got some gas around here someplace..."
But then came back and says, "Well, I thought I had some gas...all I've got
is 5
gallons!"
Like I could afford to be picky. So we thanked him profusely, and dumped it
in our
tank.
(Oh, I forgot to mention we'd VHF'd our predicament.)
Then here comes this guy in a 30' flybridge something-or-other, drops off
the plane already yelling, "I'm the tow boat! I'm the tow boat!" As if he
was being
ripped off or sumthin'. This was about halfway through the gasoline
transfer,
which he watches.
"Think that's gonna get ya home?"
"Well," I mused, "No, actually. But it's going to be really close".
"I'll follow you!" he yells.
Well, I think to myself, that's kinda nice of him, actually. So we go for it
and we make it to the mouth of the (Snohomish) river.
So he pulls up to us. I've got maybe a mile and half up river to go.
I tell him this. He grins, shrugs, points to his engines. "Diesel."
Holds up the end of a rope. "Like a tow?"
Charged me 40 bucks.
I can't remember what outfit he was contracted to, but I've got the
damned receipt, and next year I'm going for insurance with whoever
the competition is.
Yes, he did me a favor, but it was the _way_ he did it. I felt preyed upon.
It was just sleazy, like stories about ambulance-chasing lawyers...
(And frankly, I busted a timing belt at about that same spot the year
before,
_refused_ to call for help. Pissed off the passengers, but I just waited for
the tide to turn. The river's never more than a hundred yards wide, and we
floated right upriver to the docks with hardly having to touch a paddle. If
I'd
known he was gonna charge me 40 bucks, I would've done it again...)
PS - Tools required for timing belt replacement now have their own little
niche in a drawer of my toolbox. Love that Volvo...hate that belt.
:)
Glenn Ashmore
Sail4Mail wrote:
> It might be interesting to learn of cruisers' experiences with the various
> commercial assistance tow boat operators. After reading the article in CW,
> hearing some horror stories from other cruisers, and looking at the sites such
> as Safe Sea's excellent Marine Salvage info at :
>
> http://www.safesea.com/index.html
>
> I hope I never have to use their services. Clearly you must be prepared to
> extricate your vessel from all but the most serious grounding or endure a
> significant dollar expense.. It would also interesting to read about the
> planning and strategies (successful or not), employed by others.
I have a friend who ran aground on a sand bank in the Keys coral reef preserve.
Towing company came along and dragged him backwards into a coral head breaking his
rudder and charged him $500 for two hours dock to dock. Then the towing company
reported the incident to the parks department and they fined my friend $3,000 or
so. Now the towing company is going after salvage rights.
I will always find out what the deal is before I grab the tow line.
--
Glenn Ashmore
I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of)
at: http://www.mindspring.com/~gashmore
Carl Andren
>commercial assistance tow boat operators.
About four years ago I had an interesting experience with Sea Tow in
Florida. I had anchored in Sebastion Inlet (east coast 40mi south of Cape
Canaveral) to do some diving during the slack tide, when the current running
between the Indian River and Atlantic dies out due to the tidal change. When
we were finished the boat would not start, this was a 24 footer that was
trailered. It was acting as though the battery was dead, switching to my 2nd
battery did not help as I had not kept its condition up. By now the current
was running about 5 knots west, or into the river, my anchor was set well
and I was in no danger at the time.
Since this is a recreational area, the other boats around were smaller and
did not want to try towing me the 2 miles to the ramp. Since it was getting
late, I put out a call on the radio and within several minutes Sea Tow
showed up. Since I was niave about their charges and just wanted to get my
boat home, I accepted their offer of a jump start. We spent about 1 hour
putzing with cables, battery connections, and just waiting for the battery
to charge before giving up, he then towed me to the ramp (took about 10
minutes).
The charge? $375.00. He billed me $250 per hour for 1.5 hours (his time from
the dock). He would not untie my boat until I produced a Visa card and
waited for it to be approved.
To finish the story, it turns out my exhaust manifold had rusted and allowed
water into one of the cylinders, and the poor starter couldn't compress
water very well. The part that irks me the most is if I had known what this
would have costed I could have (a) offered another boater $50 to tow me in
or (b) called one of several friends with boats. My boat was only 20 feet
from shore and there was phones nearby!
Mundo
did a fair biz considering at the time there were no clear rules with the
C.G. on what constituted an emergency. It seems to me that the emergencies
back then took place on clear sunny days, and when it was miserable out they
became non emergencies. After spending two years in this business I sold my
equipment and moved on. It seems I did not have the heart to pursue payment
from the unfortunate who got them selves in a jam, and those that could
afford to pay were able to dodge payment now that their precious property
was recovered safely and intact. By not paying they were able to reassure
themselves that the embarrassing incident never took place. I guess what I'm
saying is that this biz left a bad taste with me and although its many years
since, when ever I see a tow boat I cringe at the thought that we were
helping no one but ourselves. Although I personally never left someone who
could not afford the fee I do know of guys that did. It is not the spirit of
the true mariner to do this, and constitutes a form of piracy to lurk in the
back ground until the last moment to offer an expensive hand.
Things to remember when faced with the necessity of a tow.
1) Agree on a price for the service rendered. Generally not to exceed your
towing coverage.
2) Do not accept a salvage contract unless it has been specified by your
insurance company.
3) Be sure that you are dealing with a company that works with your
insurance specifically.
4) If two companies show up barter with them .
5) Make sure that you will not float off if grounded on the next high tide
as many times they will hook up and charge you till the tide rises anyway.
6) Carry extra fuel if you can safely.
7) Carry common spares.
Mundo
Sail Fast / Live Slow
Formerly M.V. Response
Coastwise Pt. Judith
Glenn Ashmore wrote in message <36421FFE...@mindspring.com>...
>
>
>Sail4Mail wrote:
>
>> It might be interesting to learn of cruisers' experiences with the
various
Sail4Mail
the tow boat operators. There where few complaints. Most related to
mechanical breakdowns, etc., and did not involve groundings. The services were
welcomed and well received. Interestingly, there was little mention of salvage
agreements or the way tow boat operators use salvage laws. I thought that this
was an area that might have been of more interest to recreational boaters.
Perhaps the incidents of salvage are just not significant. I have never had to
call for this type of help, but should the need arise, I would be very
concerned about salvage rights, etc.. In any event, I recommend that boaters
look closely at the discussions about marine salvage at:
http://www.safesea.com/index.html
PS:
I know of two cases where a boater refused to sign a salvage agreement and was
refused a tow for a "soft" grounding. In one case the Coast Guard eventually
came and pulled them off, and in the other, myself and several other cruisers
worked the folks off with our dinghies. In neither case were the vessels in any
danger, the groundings were on soft mud and sand, and by high tide they almost
floated free on their own. Salvage?
M DeMetz
Connection refused
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Description: Unable to connect to the site "www.safesea.com".
The site is down, overloaded, or unreachable. Try connecting again later.
*************************
PrinceMyshkin
says...
>
>I receved this:
>
>Connection refused
>
Ed
>The majority of the responses, both posted and private, were positive towards
>the tow boat operators. There where few complaints. Most related to
>mechanical breakdowns, etc., and did not involve groundings. The services were
>welcomed and well received. Interestingly, there was little mention of salvage
>agreements or the way tow boat operators use salvage laws. I thought that this
>was an area that might have been of more interest to recreational boaters.
>Perhaps the incidents of salvage are just not significant. I have never had to
>call for this type of help, but should the need arise, I would be very
>concerned about salvage rights, etc.. In any event, I recommend that boaters
>look closely at the discussions about marine salvage at:
>
> http://www.safesea.com/index.html
>
>PS:
>I know of two cases where a boater refused to sign a salvage agreement and was
>refused a tow for a "soft" grounding. In one case the Coast Guard eventually
>came and pulled them off, and in the other, myself and several other cruisers
>worked the folks off with our dinghies. In neither case were the vessels in any
>danger, the groundings were on soft mud and sand, and by high tide they almost
>floated free on their own. Salvage?
I read the article at this site and was pretty well blown away. It
keeps referring to docterine established hundreds of years ago, when
there were no pleasure boats so to speak. When reading it from the
point of view of an inland and coastal boater, the openings for legal
abuse incredible. Granted, there are cases where a good salvor will
earn every penny of his "reward", but the way it is presented here,
hitting a sandbar could yield a towboat operator a reward in the tens
of thousands of dollars.
Some of the most interesting points to me were:
The loose definition of peril to mean anything that might happen to
the vessel at some point in the future is unbelievable. Even more so
when the salvor is the one deciding the peril.
Giving salvors the rights to sieze a vessel and put a lien on it based
on an arbitrarily self-decided "reward" sounds more like extortion.
In fact, where the paper mentions extortion, it says:
"Extortionate demands forced by a salvor upon the master of a vessel
in extremis will not only void the contract but often results in a
salvage award that is less than it would otherwise be. "
Often, but not always a reduced salvage award? No punishement for
this type of behavior?
It reminds me of a law that was (or is?) on the books in Texas that
said (says?) it's OK to shoot and kill a man if he needs killin.
Oh yea, the part where the salvor that saves a boat is entitled to the
insured value of the boat because that's what the insurance company
would have had to have paid had the boat been lost is a good one.
Yes, I'm sure there are two sides to the story, but it seems that the
salvors have all the rights and the poor guy that has run up on a
sandbar is just screwed if he can't back it off.
-Ed
kpk...@acpub.duke.edu
> Yes, I'm sure there are two sides to the story, but it seems that the
> salvors have all the rights and the poor guy that has run up on a
> sandbar is just screwed if he can't back it off.
Sounds to me like a good case for taking that Power Squadron course
after all. If you can't drive your boat at least TEN times more safely
than you drive your car, stay home and watch football on TV. It's much
cheaper, you won't need rescuing, and you won't annoy the rest of us!
Fresh Breezes (to them what what enjoys 'em)- Doug King
MarineOps
>In the early 80s I started a towing/ salvage co. out of Point Judith R.I. We
>did a fair biz considering at the time there were no clear rules with the
>C.G. on what constituted an emergency. It seems to me that the emergencies
>back then took place on clear sunny days, and when it was miserable out they
>became non emergencies. After spending two years in this business I sold my
>equipment and moved on. It seems I did not have the heart to pursue payment
>from the unfortunate who got them selves in a jam, and those that could
>afford to pay were able to dodge payment now that their precious property
>was recovered safely and intact. By not paying they were able to reassure
>themselves that the embarrassing incident never took place. I guess what I'm
>saying is that this biz left a bad taste with me and although its many years
>since, when ever I see a tow boat I cringe at the thought that we were
>helping no one but ourselves. Although I personally never left someone who
>could not afford the fee I do know of guys that did. It is not the spirit of
>the true mariner to do this, and constitutes a form of piracy to lurk in the
>back ground until the last moment to offer an expensive hand.
>
Yeah, it was a fun rewarding business until the franchisees and corporations
saw the fast buck. I too operated from 1981 to 1991 (WPB to Ft. Lauderdale) and
got out when the ambulance chasers go into the biz. I am sickened by what I see
today by the majority of idiots in the biz, ESPECIALLY in S. Fla. I was in it
for the challenge and the money was good at times, but I really enjoyed it all.
It seems like I towed more than quite a few who didn't have the cash to pay, no
regrets at all though. I was invited to the first USCG meeting in 1983 (Wash
DC) where they changed the assistance policy. Before that, CG station FT.
Lauderdale used to call me at home in the middle of the night to run cases in
Boca because there was such a distance between Ft.Laud and Lake Worth stations.
Those were the days... never had any complaints from my customers...only ones
who complained were the goldplater drivers who forgot to read the chart or ran
out of fuel. Now it is no longer a business of mariners, it is merely an
organized water tow truck consortium.
Dave Kellerman
RSV "Eagles Dare"
Kellerman Diving & Salvage (1981-1991)
Boca Raton, FL
http://usintel.com/specialops
Ed
Do I know you? I hope not. Either way, I'm not sure what I've done
to offend you.
Actually I think I'll buy a couple of vinyl signs to signify I'm a
professional and the next time you find an unmarked shoal, I'll pull
you off for half the value of your insurance policy. You'll be in
peril because I say so. You'll have to accept my assistance because
as master of the vessel you're making unreasonable decisions in the
face of the peril I'm sure is ahead of you. I'll be kind though and
only take half 'cause that's just the way I am.
Is this why everyone tells me I should have a distaste for blowboters?
-Ed
Anders Svensson
nature of the peril, the value at risk and (perhaps surprisingly) the
skill and bravery of the rescuers. It is true that the tradition goes
way back when the cargo of a merchantman could represent many times the
value of the ship.
The salvage laws (and they are similar all over the world with fairly
minor differences) are acknowledging that the salvager has a
substantial right in the salvaged goods, and if there is a dispute over
the salvage fee, he has a right to secure his rights in the ship
itself.
It is not the salvager that defines the peril or the actual work
involved - but he has the right to call for a detainment if and when he
believes that his legal (and rightful) claims are endangered.
I cant see how it can be in any other way. No one with the equipment
and skill for doing some rescue work will invest any time or skill in
such a project if there wasn't some kind of payback.
The problem here is to differentiate between towing fees and
contractual agreements, and the "no cure - no pay , pay to determined
later" kind of rescue.
My advice is to sail insured, agree only on towing costs that are below
the insurance excess value (because you will have to pay that anyway)
and for anything above that, refrain to a standard salvage contract,
based on "no cure-no pay - salvage claims to be decided in court" wich
gives your insurance company's lawyers what they need for making a
better deal.
--
Anders Svensson
----------------------------------------
Ed <ed_g...@mindspring.com> skrev i inlägg
<36490e7d...@nntp1.ba.best.com>...
> Yes, I'm sure there are two sides to the story, but it seems that the
> salvors have all the rights and the poor guy that has run up on a
> sandbar is just screwed if he can't back it off.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Ed
>
kpk...@acpub.duke.edu
> Do I know you? I hope not. Either way, I'm not sure what I've done
> to offend you.
You haven't offended ME at all. But you have offended common sense by
assuming that you (or anyone) should stumble along into trouble and then
be guaranteed that some other person will help at little cost.
Unfortunately the universe isn't really organized along these lines,
although here in the US we struggle to pretend it is.
> > Actually I think I'll buy a couple of vinyl signs to signify I'm a
> professional and the next time you find an unmarked shoal, I'll pull
> you off for half the value of your insurance policy.
I have never needed assistance getting off a shoal. And I do most of my
boating in the shallow (but sunny) South. Run aground? Yep. Need help?
Nope. We have occasionally helped pull others off- it's one
justification for having really powerful ground tackle.
> Is this why everyone tells me I should have a distaste for blowboters?
That all depends on how you pick your friends ;)
Keith Emmons
dock here last year. The two major towing companies here were both fighting
over who would get to raise his boat. He finally picked one, after hearing
negative stories about each. They showed up with two sets of scuba gear,
neither of which worked. They spent three hours going to get the gear
fixed. Showed up again with some empty barrels and tried to tie them to the
stern, sink, they blow with water. Another problem...they had to make some
other trips to find some other gear, get stuff fixed, etc. Finally after 24
hours (about 4 of this was actual work), they got the boat sufficiently
floated to drag it to a travelift about 200 yards away.
Bill was about $15,000. Also found out that one of the trips they made was
to file for salvage rights on the vessel. It all finally worked out, but
several points came to light for us.
1. Plan ahead on what you'll do if you ever sink. After everybody is safe,
who do you call? Who is your preferred salvager? Do you have your insurance
number?
2. NEVER leave the boat, if possible. Keep someone there at all times. If
you leave it, it makes it easier for them to claim full salvage rights.
3. At least think about what you would do in your normal boating area if
you are holed and sinking. You might want to ground the vessel to keep from
sinking, or head to a dock / marina / travelift depending on the
conditions. If you can't do any of these, at least take the vessel out of a
channel if you're in one.
These are just some thoughts that went through all of our minds after
seeing this happen to a good friend. Point is, think ahead of what you
would do, ask around about salvage outfits, have a plan. Then hope you
never have to use it!
Sail4Mail
>Sounds to me like a good case for taking that Power Squadron course
>after all. If you can't drive your boat at least TEN times more safely
>than you drive your car, stay home and watch football on TV. It's much
>cheaper, you won't need rescuing, and you won't annoy the rest of us!
While the Power Squadron courses are well worth taking, they won’t keep you
from going aground. If you put enough miles under your keel, sooner or later
you’re going to bump, and its not always skill or knowledge that gets you off
with just wounded pride. Often it’s being lucky that the tide was low, the
wind was light, or a helping hand was nearby. I don’t think of these folks as
being "rescued," and they don’t annoy me. Applying the salvage laws in some
cases just doesn’t seem appropriate.
BTW, looking at accident statistics., if everyone drove their car at least "Ten
times more safely" than they drive their boats, we’d all be a lot better off.
Foobar T. Clown
>
> Actually I think I'll buy a couple of vinyl signs to signify I'm a
> professional and the next time you find an unmarked shoal, I'll pull
> peril because I say so. You'll have to accept my assistance because
Ed, Don't forget to sell towing insurance on the side. Of course,
you'll never have to pay a claim because any time a poor slob NEEDS a
tow, it's a salvage operation by definition, and salvage is not covered
by the policy that you sold him.
lang...@my-dejanews.com
yachts, Tugboat Annie's salvage tricks might still be something
to watch for. 18 of the 75 stories by Norman Reilly Raine are in
Tugboat Annie: Great Stories from the Saturday Evening Post, ISBN
0-89387-010-Z, (c)1997 by Elizabeth Raines. I liked the one
where Annie's advice to change course earned salvage rights.
Question. If the salvaged vessel is worth less than the cost of
salvage, does the salvor have any recourse like a lien on the
sailor's bank account?
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
captk...@webtv.net
boat is tougher than filing a (salvage) lien on a state registered
vessel. anyone care to elaborate ?
kpk...@acpub.duke.edu
> While the Power Squadron courses are well worth taking, they won’t keep you
> from going aground. If you put enough miles under your keel, sooner or later
> you’re going to bump, and its not always skill or knowledge that gets you off
> with just wounded pride. Often it’s being lucky that the tide was low, the
> wind was light, or a helping hand was nearby.
Exceptional circumstances can get the better of anybody. However, simply
being more knowledgable, going slower, and navigating more carefully
would eliminate 99.9 percent of recreational boat groundings or other
accidents. The dollar price of stupidity and carelessness isn't high
enough IMHO.
> I don’t think of these folks as
> being "rescued," and they don’t annoy me. Applying the salvage laws in some
> cases just doesn’t seem appropriate.
Agree about salvage laws. And what annoyed me was the whining tone of
"Ed's" post.
>
> BTW, looking at accident statistics., if everyone drove their car at least "Ten
> times more safely" than they drive their boats, we’d all be a lot better off.
Yup, if guns had killed as many people as cars they'd be outlawed
fifteen times over by now! Maybe this newsgroup would see a heated
debate on whether or not to bring an automobile on cruises....
Fresh breezes- Doug King
Paul Kamen
>...Maybe this newsgroup would see a heated debate on whether or
>not to bring an automobile on cruises.
Heh. I've got a concept design right here for an amphibious conversion
kit that would work with any hard-transom dinghy, rigid or inflatable.
It wouldn't exactly be road-legal in the U.S., but this is probably not
an issue in most of the better cruising areas.
Anyone with a few hundred thousand kicking around interested in getting
this thing to prototype?
--
fish...@netcom.com
http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html
-"Call me Fishmeal"-
Mark Bothum
Paul Kamen wrote
>Heh. I've got a concept design right here for an amphibious conversion
>kit that would work with any hard-transom dinghy, rigid or inflatable.
>Anyone with a few hundred thousand kicking around interested in getting
>this thing to prototype?
Oh geez...I would, but then you'd become wealthy, self-involved, too busy
to mess with newsgroups...and we lurkers _depend_ on you for facts, man!
So...no.
- Mark (Sorry, but it's for your own good, too.)
Armond Perretta
>Paul Kamen wrote: ... kpk...@acpub.duke.edu writes: ...
>
> >...Maybe this newsgroup would see a heated debate on
> >whether or not to bring an automobile on cruises.
>
>conversion kit that would work with any hard-transom dinghy,
>rigid or inflatable. Anyone with a few hundred thousand
>kicking around interested in getting this thing to prototype?
A less expensive option is to buy some study plans of Jay
Benford's Florida Bay Coaster series. Several of these large,
shoal, unusual-looking trawlers have a provision for launching
a jeep or similar shoreside vehicle (via a crane) from the foredeck.
Must be seen to be believed, but I have run into more than one
in south Florida and the Keys.
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat (remove "BOAT")
http://www.geocities.com/colosseum/sideline/8620
"Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell
your parrot to the town gossip." Toots the Sailing Parrot
kpk...@acpub.duke.edu
>
> kpk...@acpub.duke.edu writes:
>
> >...Maybe this newsgroup would see a heated debate on whether or
> >not to bring an automobile on cruises.
>
> Heh. I've got a concept design right here for an amphibious conversion
> kit that would work with any hard-transom dinghy, rigid or inflatable.
>
> an issue in most of the better cruising areas.
>
> this thing to prototype?
That would bring an interesting new twist to the phrase "Dad, can I
borrow the, um, dinghy tonight?"
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
Keith Emmons
barges. Just fix up a ramp, drive the car onto the barge, and carry it with
you. Granted, these are commercial, but maybe you could hitch a ride? :)
Paul Kamen wrote:
> kpk...@acpub.duke.edu writes:
>
> >...Maybe this newsgroup would see a heated debate on whether or
> >not to bring an automobile on cruises.
>
> Heh. I've got a concept design right here for an amphibious conversion
> kit that would work with any hard-transom dinghy, rigid or inflatable.
>
> It wouldn't exactly be road-legal in the U.S., but this is probably not
> an issue in most of the better cruising areas.
>
> Anyone with a few hundred thousand kicking around interested in getting
> this thing to prototype?
Richard Isakson
>
>Heh. I've got a concept design right here for an amphibious conversion
>kit that would work with any hard-transom dinghy, rigid or inflatable.
>
What a great idea! I can just see myself running around Stuart Island in
the San Juans in my El Toro. Do I get to keep the tiller steering?
Rich Isakson
Ed
<SNIP>
>
>Agree about salvage laws. And what annoyed me was the whining tone of
>"Ed's" post.
>>
<SNIP>
Whining tone? Get a grip.
I put forth an opinion on what I see as a set of laws that while
possibly appropriate at the time of their inception, seem quite one
sided and wide open for easy abuse, and simply outdated based on the
evolution of boating over the last several hundred years. Hardly
whining, though I might be inclined to do so if I ever have reason to
be salvaged.
-Ed
Ed
>Scaled down from ocean-going tugs and freighters to towboats and
>yachts, Tugboat Annie's salvage tricks might still be something
>to watch for. 18 of the 75 stories by Norman Reilly Raine are in
>Tugboat Annie: Great Stories from the Saturday Evening Post, ISBN
>0-89387-010-Z, (c)1997 by Elizabeth Raines. I liked the one
>where Annie's advice to change course earned salvage rights.
>
>Question. If the salvaged vessel is worth less than the cost of
>salvage, does the salvor have any recourse like a lien on the
>sailor's bank account?
>
That's a pretty good question. The reference I was referring to in my
original post was: http://www.safesea.com/index.html. I didn't see
anything about placing liens on other properties, but that doesn't
mean it isn't burried in there somewhere.
Based on the original spirit of these laws, a vessel of negligable
value could be carrying a cargo of considerable value, making a
successful salvage effort worth quite a bit more than the value of
vessel itself. Heck, what if the vessel is virtually worthless after
the rescue? In this context, it would seem to make sense that other
assets, maybe a portion of the the cargo, could be attached to a lien.
-Ed
Anders Svensson
The plastic dinghy combined with a automobile (sort of) is already out.
Have you ever heard of the East German (formerly) Drabant ? This is a
plastic body car with a two strke engine. Turn it upside down, and it
is ready to rol... er, row (or run).
--
Anders Svensson
----------------------------------------
Paul Kamen <fish...@netcom.com> skrev i inlägg
<fishmealF...@netcom.com>...
> kpk...@acpub.duke.edu writes:
>
> >...Maybe this newsgroup would see a heated debate on
whether or
> >not to bring an automobile on cruises.
>
> Heh. I've got a concept design right here for an amphibious
conversion
> kit that would work with any hard-transom dinghy, rigid or
inflatable.
>
Anders Svensson
I saw photos of a inflatable adapted with a ultralight wing and a
(rotax (?) two stroke engine. This is a dinghy/aeroplane combo -
perhaps even more fun than a car/dinghy combo.
--
Anders Svensson
----------------------------------------
Richard Isakson <r...@whidbey.com> skrev i inlägg
<72io8k$63q$1...@supernews.com>...
> Paul Kamen wrote >
> >
> >Heh. I've got a concept design right here for an amphibious
conversion
> >kit that would work with any hard-transom dinghy, rigid or
inflatable.
> >
>
Paul Kamen
>...Have you ever heard of the East German (formerly) Drabant ?
>This is a plastic body car with a two stroke engine. Turn it
>upside down, and it is ready to rol... er, row (or run).
Yikes, I had a toy car/boat like that in 1955. Here in the U.S. we have
teh "Amphicar," but it's much more car than dinghy.
My concept is a essentailly a pair of hydraulic hubs and balloon tires on
retractable axels that all clamps to the outboard bracket of a
conventional dinghy. Needs a prime mover of some sort to drive the
hydraulic pump, and it's steered by differential wheel speed (like a
bulldozer). Castering nosewheel keeps the bow off the ground.
Is there a Drabant web page?
Anders Svensson
car with a plastic body and a two stroke engine. The material and the
power source (I hesitate to call it a engine) are th only real
connections to the water.
***
Your idea is quite good. I see a possibility steering the contraption
(?) via the nose wheel. Someone wanted to keep the tiller - that could
arranged in that way... The valve block is a expensive part of a
hydraulic setup, and you could possibly do with just one wheel motor
and a pump this way too. This will emulate sideways drift nicely, BTW.
How about getting real large wheels, a la monster truck, and adapt a
four wheel motorcycle RV to a tender... ? It could float on it's
wheels.
--
Anders Svensson
----------------------------------------
Paul Kamen <fish...@netcom.com> skrev i inlägg
<fishmealF...@netcom.com>...
Scott McQ
>My concept is a essentailly a pair of hydraulic hubs and balloon tires on
>retractable axels that all clamps to the outboard bracket of a
>conventional dinghy. Needs a prime mover of some sort to drive the
>hydraulic pump, and it's steered by differential wheel speed (like a
>bulldozer). Castering nosewheel keeps the bow off the ground.
>
Why not put two wheels into a folding frame with a sling to support
the underside of a dinghy's bow? Add a tube from each wheel mount that
reaches back to a common point at the rear where you put a pad to
support the back of the dinghy and a third wheel for the tiller
steering that somebody wanted. You could then have brakes up front
where you need them.
Use an electric motor (from a washing machine) to drive one of the
wheels via a belt drive. Use a Honda generator to power the motor.
You should be able to make eight or ten knots over the ground if
there is no headwind. You could also throw in a prop drive for the
motor to spin while the boat is in the water (as an added value option
of course).
Advantages: 1.Most of the parts are "off the shelf" so it will cost
you less for both developement and manufacture.
2.Some of the parts would have other uses on or
near a boat (generator, wheel barrow).
3.The parts would be small enough for a diminutive
person to disassemble/load/carry in a dinghy.
4.The parts should be able to fold up and store
inside the dinghy while it is upside down on
deck.
Let me know if you are going to market these things. I like the idea
but don't have the time to work up a unit of my own.
Scott McQ
DBruckel
Just south of Clearwater, Fl at, I think, Isle of Palms we watched a
ultalite/inflatable combination land and take off several times in late
September this year/
Dennis M/V Sadie B
Mundo
Mundo
Sail Fast / Live Slow
"Pelagos"
Newsgroup A Class
Scott McQ wrote in message <72kqp5$314...@r.mcquee>...