Gorilla glue good for marine use?
Donnie Gilliland
www.glenl.com. Many of the smaller assemblies are to be joined with epoxy
and nails/screws. Has anyone used "Gorilla Glue" in marine applications for
this type of construction? I have been in contact with the Mfgr and they
claim half of the boats in Europe are being held together with the stuff. I
use it in my furniture I build and it's great.
Any reason why I couldn't use it in the boat too?
Don
Glenn Ashmore
that they are not for use below the water line. I use it extensively on the
interior primarily because it is easier to finish but not on the hull or deck.
There was so much discussion about polyurethanes earlier this year I decided to
look at the economics as well. A 36 oz bottle of Gorilla glue cost $30 which
works out to $106/gallon. In 18 oz bottles it is $140 a gallon. Compared to
about $40/gallon for Raka epoxy and $62 for West. polyurethane is very pricy.
While it is true that you would use about half as much, the net price per joint
is still a bit more expensive. Add to that the fact that PU is not gap filling,
that once opened it has a rather short shelf life and that you can use epoxy for
many more things, PU is a pretty poor choice. .
Donnie Gilliland wrote:
--
Glenn Ashmore
I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there
of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
pm
I was), it foamed all over. That which foamed out of the joins
could be cut off like a two part foam. Considering the small amount of glue
that was used to begin with and that which foamed out of the join, how
strong could the bond possibly be?
Also, I'm told some people are using Gorilla glue on poorly fitted joins
withs the thought that the foaming will voids. Comments?
pm
Glenn Ashmore
pm wrote:
I have been using Polyurethane glues since they first came out on furniture and
cabinet work and it is very good but it has its limits. A well made PU joint
is just as strong as epoxy or resorcinol. PU will tolerate a slightly looser
fit that resorcinol but it is definitely NOT gap filling. While PU will expand
to fill a joint cosmetically, any joint you can see light through is suspect
and there is a limit to how much clamping pressure you can use to close it up
without starving the joint. When laminating up a part, the jig and caul have
to be very accurate to insure that all the glue lines close up evenly.
PU does have some distinct advantages: No mixing means less waste and faster
assembly.
Open time is longer than with aliphatic (yellow) or PVA (white) glues. The
squeeze out turns to dust when sanded and the glue line becomes a little pours
so the surface will take a finish more evenly. It does work well on white oak
but has the same limits as epoxy on oily woods like teak..
As to water resistance, PU is rated as a Type II which among other things means
it can survive 48 hours in water without degradation but it is not a marine
glue. It also has enough flexibility to absorb most wood movement. About 8
years ago, I used it on some cypress lawn furniture. The furniture has
remained outside all this time and the joints are is still sound. The only
maintenance has been paint every few years.
Carl McCarty
much stronger than polyureathane. Also the poly glue keeps clogging the bottle.
It also has a short shelf life.
Meindert Sprang
news:3BD93EA4...@bright.net...
> I've used both poly glie and epoxy and have found the epoxy joints to be
much,
> much stronger than polyureathane. Also the poly glue keeps clogging the
bottle.
> It also has a short shelf life.
>
dried, I lifted the batten on one side. Then the other side just fell
off....
Meindert
Bob
joint vs. epoxy, but I have used some PU and a lot of epoxy.
I made up a series of PU test pieces some years ago and was mystified at the
results. I tried dry (remember this is the Gulf Coast, so nothing is ever
really dry), moistened, wet, and every thing in-between. I tried surfaces
fresh out of the saw, planed, sanded, etc.
What I got was a series of joints that mostly failed in the wood, but about
20 percent or so that simply failed at the glue joint when subjected to
pretty low stresses. I could see no reason why one joint would fail and
another wouldn't, but I'm trying to build a boat, not test adhesives, so I
quickly gave up on PU as a structural glue.
Epoxy on the other hand, has been dead reliable. Under the worst conditions
(dusty, old, unsanded, contaminated, wood to a metal clamp, metal clamp to
metal clamp, wood to concrete, etc.) a spilled blob of epoxy seems to glue
almost anything to anything. I've never had a glue joint failure EVER with
epoxy.
However, I do love to just pick up a bottle of glue and squirt a little bit
on a joint, which is why I experimented with PU in the first place, but the
disadvantage of having the stuff go bad in the bottle rather quickly here
on the Gulf Coast is simply not worth it.
Bob
"Glenn Ashmore" <gash...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3BD94096...@mindspring.com...
david allen
one application, besides adhesive, you might want to consider is 'foam in place' flotation.
I've found that if I mix about 10% (by volume) water with raw PU glue it will foam to around
30 times the original volume.
it'll take about an hour to reach full expansion. until cured, the foam is very 'weak'. any
movement or agitation will cause it to collapse or 'deflate' a bit. it doesn't generate a lot
of pressure, so it doesn't fill cracks as well as the spray can stuff, but that also means you
can contain it with masking tape. be sure to allow a way for the air to escape when trying to
fill a closed space.
after curing (several hours) it appears to have the same properties as the spray can stuff.
if you want to play with it, try mixing it in a plastic bag. that'll let you see what's going
on and let you get a 'feel' for it without getting messed up. you can also use foam filled
bags as flotation pillows to fill void spaces without creating a permenant installation.
I've used this to fill PVC pipe for use as floats. I've also had good success layering the
foam mixture and the foam 'peanuts' that're used as packing material.
da
In article <aG0C7.4$CJ6....@timmy.network1.net>, drg...@redwing.net says...
Andrew Butchart
--
Andrew Butchart
and...@abutchartconsulting.com
"Donnie Gilliland" <drg...@redwing.net> wrote in message
news:aG0C7.4$CJ6....@timmy.network1.net...
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
William R. Watt
stems, and gunwales in a small cheap boat. Would not use it alone without
the srews. Its easy to work with, just squeeze out a 1/4 inch bead around
the edges with a caulking gun. The seams are sealed on the outside with
marine polyester. I even caulked some gaps on the inside with the stuff,
just like caulking around windows or a bathtub. After reading here
advice on storage I keep any open tube wrapped in plastic in a freezer.
Have to remember to take it out to thaw a couple hours before using.
Also tried some tests of butt joining scraps of plywood with the
construction adhesive and fibreglass tape as is done with epoxy but they
did not hold under pressure. Took all my strength to break 'em but I would
not trust for construction.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Capital FreeNet www.ncf.ca Ottawa's free community network
website: www.ncf.ca/~ag384
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Backyard Renegade
I would love to see the manufacturer back up those statments. Although
I will use the stuff to hold in flotation under seats and decks, or as
a sealer around a drainplug during manufacture, I would never use it
as a structural adhesive. Personally I have heard the manufacturers
claims and I think they are asking for trouble reccomending it to
boatbuilders...Scotty
Denis Marier
Many glues are used above the water line. But below the water line its a
different story. A week end in the water compared to 12 months immersion in
southern sea water could be different. A good percentage of the boats in
Europe are used to live aboard and stay in port most the time and regular
pumping is done to keep the boats dry.
Even epoxy resin has an absorption rate. It is very low compared to
polyester. I wonder what is the water absorption rate of this glue in warm
and cold sea water and does it attract wild and marine life's. If the
Gorilla glue passed all these tests than we have a winner. Either way I
will experiment with the Gorilla glue and welcome any feedback's.
"Backyard Renegade" <skcus...@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:144b721f.01102...@posting.google.com...
Donnie Gilliland
Donnie Gilliland wrote in message ...
Ian Wright
The name of the popular boat building PU glue in Europe is Balcotan.
It comes in standard and fast setting formulations and has over the
past ten years or more proved itself to be very satisfactory.
Just as any other glue it needs to be used in the right situation. In
other words chose the right glue for the job in hand.
A problem has arisen in marine glues, in that Epoxy has been marketed
as the "one size fits all" solution, which it is not.. and neither is
PU or Aerodux or any other..
One other thing,,,,,,,, it is generally better to use real boat
building products, where they exist, rather than a similar product
sold for household or building use..
Ian Wright, Patience, Vertue 203
William R. Watt
The "marine" desingation is quite a conundrum. Some things you really
should use the marine version, like some formulations of adhesives all
which might come under one generic name, eg epoxy & polyurethane, but not
other things which are no different from off the shelf general use produts
but have been relabelled "marine" and sell at a big markup. It's the sort
of thing Seagram's used to do during prohibition - pouring the same booze
in all its bottles, putting different labels on them, and selling at
different prices. I'm inclined to try to find out what's under the label.
A bit of treasure hunting.
pm
>It's
>the sort of thing Seagram's used to do during prohibition - pouring the
>same booze in all its bottles, putting different labels on them, and
>selling at different prices. I'm inclined to try to find out what's
>under the label. A bit of treasure hunting.
I spilled some acetone on a gallon can of the varnish product Deks Ola(sp)
some years ago and under the paper label was the Flood can of Deck and Porch
sealer.
pm
ron ginger
>
> I spilled some acetone on a gallon can of the varnish product Deks Ola(sp)
> some years ago and under the paper label was the Flood can of Deck and Porch
> sealer.
Welll, since they were made by the same company it is possible they
simply used cans from one supplier, but the product inside was
different.
It is also possible the product inside is the same, but your experience
does not PROVE either conclusion.
ron ginger
Pat Ford
wrote:
It's most likely yet another version of that ancient tale:
"Marine quality, ahhh, it's the same stuff you can buy at (insert
local auto parts store here). The marine places just double the price
and sell it as marine."
That cornball line has been around since boats could float.
Knowledgeable people know it is not true.
Ian Wright
wrote:
>
>It's most likely yet another version of that ancient tale:
>"Marine quality, ahhh, it's the same stuff you can buy at (insert
>local auto parts store here). The marine places just double the price
>and sell it as marine."
>
>That cornball line has been around since boats could float.
>Knowledgeable people know it is not true.
Not sure how Knowledgable I am but I do have more years experience
than I like to remember,,,,,,,,, and like many others what I learn
through trial and error sticks with me. Cheap(er) glue is a bad buy as
I have said, with paint I have found that 'marine' primer is well
worth the money, 'marine' undercoat isn't. Much better to use a top
quality trade or domestic undercoat. Indeed not only better but much
cheaper.
Back to marine enamel for top coats.
As for varnish I've tried most and have always gone back to a high
price-high quality tung oil spar Varnish.
I'm talking from a wooden boat background,,,,, I wouldn' want to
advise the owner of a plastic boat about anything,,,,,,,,
Ian Wright, Patience, Vertue 203t
William R. Watt
Peggy Hall notes that "marine" toilette paper is the same as the single ply
sold in supermarkets at a much lower price.
I've also read that items sold as "marine" can be bought for less at RV
and travel trailer outlets.
Gavin Atkin
With you there Scotty... I'd be surprised if the Gorilla glue people's claim
that 'half the boats in Europe' are held together with their product could
be borne out. In my part of Europe no-one seems to even sell it - I truly
would not know where to buy the stuff.
On the other hand, the respected New Zealand designer John Welsford is a big
fan of Gorilla. And quite a lot of people in the UK use a PU glue called
Balcotan to make strip-planked canoes etc, and I've used another called
Timbertix in small dinghies successfully. The gluing surfaces joints do have
to fit tight, however.
So.... on balance, I would guess that it's best to choose the right glue for
the job rather than buy down to a price. An old, old story.
Gavin