Automotive engine for marine use

[Donnie Gilliland]

Anyone have any ideas why a 2.5l, 4- cylinder GM wouldn't work in a small
handmade house boat? They're small, fairly light weight, smooth running, and
very fuel efficient. I've worked on several in small cars and they are one
of the most forgiving 4 bangers ever built. Not to mention easy to get
parts.

Comments?

[Boolywooger]

In marine applications, especially enclosed engine bays like the one in a
houseboat, heat is a big problem. You need marine (water-cooled) exhaust
manifolds. If this special type of manifold is not available for the engine you
want to use, it becomes a very difficult task. Generally speaking, unless a
major manufacturer has used this specific engine as an inboard or I/O, there
will be no marine exhaust manifolds available for it. Other than that, no
specific reason why not.

[micwal]

You obviously never had to work on one of these creatures.

They have a history of the following: Head gasket problems,
Magnetic pickup problems, coil problems, timing gear, oil pump
and balancer problems. The engines are leaky as a sieve, every
one that I ever worked on leaked oil.

They are heavy for the power output. The block is as tall as a
v-8. They are a really noisy engine as they use a timing gear
and not a chain and historically the valve train sounds like a
sewing machine.

If you insist on putting in a domestic car engine use an inline
or slant 6.

I am not associated with Keen.com in anyway.
It is unfortunate that the web based news service I use (Remarq.com)
has decided to add the following spam to all its users posts

-----------------------------------------------------------

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[Kent Hunter-Duvar]

Need to modify for "wet" exhaust, raw water cooling (or keel cooling, which IMHO
is much better for salt water use), need appropriate tranny. If going for cost
effectiveness, fishermen on the east coast have use 6 cyl inline GM's for years
and the appropriate parts are available new and used at reasonable prices.
Kent

On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 16:42:59 -0500, "Donnie Gilliland" <drg...@win.bright.net>
wrote:

The opinions expressed are my own and you can't have them (you can borrow them however)
mailto:k...@globallaser.ondotca
Anti Spam measure in effect
Please replace the "dot" with a "."

[B. Davis Eichelberger]

Donnie Gilliland wrote:

> Anyone have any ideas why a 2.5l, 4- cylinder GM wouldn't work in a small
> handmade house boat? They're small, fairly light weight, smooth running, and
> very fuel efficient. I've worked on several in small cars and they are one
> of the most forgiving 4 bangers ever built. Not to mention easy to get
> parts.
>
> Comments?

IIRC Mercruiser and maybe Volvo put that engine in I/O applications and
manifolds, etc. should be easily available.

Davis Eichelberger

[B. Davis Eichelberger]

Boolywooger wrote:

IIRC Mercury and perhaps Volvo used that engine in I/O applications, so manifold,
etc. should be readily available.

[gcouger]

: Donnie Gilliland wrote:
:
: > Anyone have any ideas why a 2.5l, 4- cylinder GM wouldn't work in a
small
: > handmade house boat? They're small, fairly light weight, smooth
running, and
: > very fuel efficient. I've worked on several in small cars and they are
one
: > of the most forgiving 4 bangers ever built. Not to mention easy to get
: > parts.
: >
: > Comments?

:
Automotive diesels are poor choices. They are not built to pull their
rated Hp all day long. If you use one derate it by a factor of 2 or 3 and
you might get decent life out of it. But then it will weigh as much or
more as real marine diesel.

A diesel from a small tractor would be a lot better choice but the price
would not be much better than a marine engine.

If you want to use an automotive engine a 350 GM, a GM straight 6, a
Chrysler 318, or a Subaru 1600 are all good engines that will hold
together. There are some others but that selection about covers the full
range of power you can expect out of a current auto engines.
--
Gordon W5RED
G. C. Couger gco...@couger.com Stillwater, OK

[Mscnet]

>:
>Automotive diesels are poor choices. They are not built to pull their
>rated Hp all day long. If you use one derate it by a factor of 2 or 3 and
>you might get decent life out of it. But then it will weigh as much or
>more as real marine diesel.
>
>A diesel from a small tractor would be a lot better choice but the price
>would not be much better than a marine engine.
>
>If you want to use an automotive engine a 350 GM, a GM straight 6, a
>Chrysler 318, or a Subaru 1600 are all good engines that will hold
>together. There are some others but that selection about covers the full
>range of power you can expect out of a current auto engines.
>--
>Gordon W5RED
>G. C. Couger gco...@couger.com Stillwater, OK
>

From what I've read in the boating magazines, I was of the opinion that the
marine & auto engines were quite different. Don't the marine engines use
different valve springs & camshafts since they're called on to pull more HP at
cruise? I know that the alternators have spark arrestors built into them, and
from what I understand, so does the starter. Anyway, I was just under the
impression that an automotive motor was usable as a 'core' but not something
you'd want to actually run. Although, if you put the marine accessories
(starter/alternator/etc) on one, I don't see why you couldn't run it for
awhile, it just won't last as long, and may consume more fuel per hour...

Chris

[Roger Dewhurst]

On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 16:42:59 -0500, "Donnie Gilliland"

<drg...@win.bright.net> wrote:

>Anyone have any ideas why a 2.5l, 4- cylinder GM wouldn't work in a small
>handmade house boat? They're small, fairly light weight, smooth running, and
>very fuel efficient. I've worked on several in small cars and they are one
>of the most forgiving 4 bangers ever built. Not to mention easy to get
>parts.
>
>Comments?
>
>

The key words which have not been addressed by others are:- "in a
small handmade house boat". It is fair to assume that this will be
operated at hull speed or less. This can be achieved with several
kilowatts/tonne. What about an air cooled Briggs and Stratton? R

[Dan Bollinger]

Donnie, There are problems, but none of the insurmountable. Wooden Boat
Magazine (issue 134) did an article on an engineer who converted the Subaru
flat four to marine use. This engine is a favorite for airplane conversion
because of its long life and light weight. His conversion was inspected by
a Coast Guard Auxiliary and given the thumbs-up. He got away from the
coolling problem by using antifreeze as the coolant running through a heat
exchanger that was cooled by seawater.

For plans, contact Bristol Engineering, P.O. Box 86, North Hero, VT 05474
for a back issue contact www.woodenboat.com
Dan

Donnie Gilliland <drg...@win.bright.net> wrote in message
news:r7%j5.730$df6....@reggie.win.bright.net...

[Brian Combs]

In any boat it is a good practice to have engine cooling through a heat
exchanger and keep antifreeze in the engine. This is true in fresh as well
as salt as not all fresh water is free of contaminants.

Brian

[Keith A. Lahteine]

Dear Donnie : As long as you can satisfy the heat exchanger or even
better make it a fresh water cooled unit there's no reason why a normal engine
cannot be converted for marine use .

Sincerely : Keith A. Lahteine

[da...@home.com]

[qshick]

I am a marine engine dealer with 38 years of field experience and to convert
a non marine engine is a large job and some parts have to be bought from a
marine supplier so that the saving just fade away if you are a good
mechanic and have a good shop you can do it just don't think that it is
quick and easy or cheap I believe that you would be better off to buy used
marine and do a rebuild
<da...@home.com> wrote in message news:39a9918b...@news.bright.net...

[SEVTEC]

>Subject: Re: Automotive engine for marine use
>From: "qshick" qsh...@neca.com
>Date: 9/10/2000 8:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <t%Xu5.21389$qv4.1...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net>

We cruised from WA to Juneau AK, with no problems from a Subaru 1.4L engine.
This engine has 400hr on it now, with no problems except with electric starter
corrosion problems (solved with maintenance program.

However, the engine is above board so there is no explosion hazard, and it uses
a radiator for cooling.

Barry Palmer, for <A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/sevtec/sev/skmr.html">Sevtec</A>

[E. Normus]

Aside from safety and durability issues, remember you'll have to buy marine
exhaust manifolds, distributor, starter, alternator and carburetor. That's
an easy $2000. You can buy a decent, running inboard for that much.

[NWCedarDecks]

>Aside from safety and durability issues, remember you'll have to buy marine
>exhaust manifolds, distributor, starter, alternator and carburetor. That's
>an easy $2000. You can buy a decent, running inboard for that much.
>
>
>

Most in are car engines with all thors thing added. Buy a wore out engine , get
a short block and change the parts over.
I have see it done a tones of times.
ED

[Dan Bollinger]

You can obtain a copy of the drawings and instructions they mention in the
Jan/Feb '97 Wooden Boat article for $50 from:

Bristol Engineering
P.O. Box 86
North Hero, VT 05474

I have a set and they are very detailed. Dan

Pesceuomo <pesc...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20000913095044...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
> Does any one have a copy of the artical on how to convert the Subarue
engine
> for marine use?? The lay out of that engine is similar to an Air Cooled
VW
> engine. I wonder if the basics would apply to both.

[Pesceuomo]

[Matt Koch]

Try www.woodenboat.com. They have a list on their site that will give you
the issue number the article was in.

Matt
PY26, "Mischief"

"Pesceuomo" <pesc...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20000913095044...@ng-fp1.aol.com...

[COROSS2]

>Does any one have a copy of the artical on how to convert the Subarue engine
>for marine use?? The lay out of that engine is similar to an Air Cooled VW
>engine. I wonder if the basics would apply to both.

That would be Wooden Boat 1997 #s 134 and 135. The Subaru conversion is
interesting, though it raised a few questions in the letters section. I would
be careful with an air-cooled gas engine in an enclosed engine compartment.
Seems like a potential problem.

Chris Ross