Stevenson Projects Micro-Cup
Parallax
Considering the age of the plans, are there any materials other than
1/4" ply that would be lighter?
I am interested in building two for my kids.
Greg
from 1973 or so. We substitute as needed to update. Epoxy resin now instead
of two part glue then, etc.
Try this link for more information:
Greg Luckett
"Parallax" <dbo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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Andrew Butchart
with it overall. You may want to check out the MiniCup FAQ at
http://www.byyb.org/pn/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index&myfaq=yes&id_cat=9
or go to the http://www.byyb.org site and follow the links. There's also
some information on my own website - http://www.floatingbear.ca/
My own opinion is that although you could build the boat out 1/8" ply you
would have some loss of hull strength as well as having problems fastening
such thin ply to the stringers.
--
Andrew Butchart
and...@floatingbear.ca
http://www.floatingbear.ca
"Parallax" <dbo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:792abaf9.0404...@posting.google.com...
Parallax
Thanks for the info.
Parallax
Day 1.
Bought the wood, 10 pieces of 4' X 8' X 1/4" Luan underlayment (I am
building 2). This stuff is very light and nicely finished. Several
ppl told me to get Mahogany instead of Fir for the stringers, etc.
The lumberyard had limited amounts of Fir but strongly suggested an
Australian wood called Agathis which I got. This was more expensive
than I thought.
Before it got dark this evening, I managed to draw out on the wood the
sides and centerboard box for 1, and the bow decking for it but did
not have time to draw the curves. I am a little worried about cutting
the luan even with taping both sides of each cut because I have seen
similar stuff splinter (cutting doors).
Will try to finish the lofting tomorrow evening.
Parallax
I am considering the sails now and although the plans call for
visqueen, what about the reinforced plastic tarp material? Any ideas
on sail material. The backyard yacht building site showed one with a
different rig than the "latteen" style sail, it had a stayed mast.
Anybody know anything about it?
The plans call for the two Al poles that form the top and bottom of
the sail to be the same diameter as the mast, why not make them a
little smaller?
Thanks,
David OHara
Andrew Butchart
<snip> not have time to draw the curves. I am a little worried about
cutting
> the luan even with taping both sides of each cut because I have seen
> similar stuff splinter (cutting doors).
>
> Will try to finish the lofting tomorrow evening.
I use a circular saw with a plywood cutting blade and have few
problems. Set the blade so that it just barely cuts through the wood
and you shouldn't have any problems.
FYI - I would suggest waiting to cut out the decks until you have the
rest of the hull assembled, a few people (including me) have had
problems with the pieces fitting at that point. Also, there is an
extra measurement you want to do on your fore and aft bulkheads to
make sure they match the side bulkheads at the correct location. A
few people (including me) have had problems with that.
Also, even though I used fir myself for my MiniCup, I have since
switched to spruce which is much cheaper where I live and works almost
as well.
Good luck with the project.
Andrew Butchart
and...@floatingbear.ca
Parallax
Thanks for the advice as I had planned to cut out the decks tomorrow but will wait.
Day 2. Finished drawing the decks and cockpit.
Parallax
Day 3. Drew the bulkheads and transoms
I am only drawing one set of deck and bulk/transom drawings because I
plan to use the first set as a template to draw the second (am making
two boats). I did draw two sets of sides and cebterboard well sides.
Parallax
Fri: Just made the joiner piece for the hull bottom. Couldnt find a
batten long enough to make the curve so first calculated the radii of
curvature and tried to draw the curves using a pen tied on a long
string. Apparently too much stretch in the string. Found a piece of
long thin stock at work and used it to draw the curve. Cut two of
them out (two boats) on a bandsaw and finished them on a table sander.
Parallax
Fri. evening: Cut out most of the pieces from the luan. This project
will def. take longer than I thought. It is surprising how little
time I have to work on it. (3 kids and running a small business,
maybe I was unrealistic). It is going well anyway. Got the bottoms
glued and screwed to the joiners. How did ppl do things like this
before power screwdrivers, wow!
Backyard Renegade
be a problem shaping later, should be left as so. If you make all the
edges finish and tight, you will end up having to knock it down more
than the plan calls for later after turning and working around the
boat. I always leave ends long, edges unfinished etc, wait till you
are ready for finish, before you finish. Impatience and the will to
see something look like a beautiful boat will only cause anguish
later. I always tell folks, "yes, I am builing your boat, but you
don't want to see her now". Wait till she looks like a boat!
Scotty from SmallBoats.com
Parallax
Scotty:
Sounds like good advice.
Day 4, I think. I had to buy a table saw since my neighbors didn't
work. I used it to cut the stringers and this went fairly well
considering I have never used a table saw ( I am not much for
woodworking). I only screwed up two stringers forgetting to set the 7
degree angle. Put the two stringers on the bottom pieces and this was
surprisingly easy. BTW, I am using that "Gorilla Glue" which is said
to be waterproof. It is strange stuff that seems to react with
moisture (you wet both surfaces prior to application) and it foams up
and fills spaces.
Brian Combs
you have a decent fit though as the foamed glue is not very strong.
Brian
Brian Combs
Brian
Parallax
> By the way, you are making good progress. Keep it up.
>
> Brian
Brian, Thanks.
I know very little about woodworking, all my past fabrication
experience has been with metal instrumentation with tiny watchlike
parts with very close tolerances so working with wood is a new
experience. I find that the parts do not fit as well as I like. Will
the joints be smoothed at the end and filled? There are gaps where
edges do not exactly meet etc. This seems unavoidable because it is
almost impossible to get measurements better than 1/16 in wood and
probably no better than 1/8" (ok, make it 1/4" for me). So far, I am
pleased but maybe I just have low expectations for my own woodworking.
I expected to get some work done today but was sidetracked by Easter
and family.
David
Parallax
Got the stringers glued and screwed to the bulkheads today and to the
cockpit sides (mostly) before running out of screws. I am a little
worried because the curvature of the bulkheads seems more than the
curvature of the hull botom but I imagine strap clamps will cause the
hull bottom to bend some.
I feel as if I have bathing in this glue.
bookieb
<snip>
> I use a circular saw with a plywood cutting blade and have few
> problems. Set the blade so that it just barely cuts through the wood
> and you shouldn't have any problems.
Ditto, no problems with 28 tooth 7" blade, but it may depend on the
ply you have.
<snip>
> FYI - I would suggest waiting to cut out the decks until you have the
> rest of the hull assembled, a few people (including me) have had
> problems with the pieces fitting at that point. Also, there is an
> extra measurement you want to do on your fore and aft bulkheads to
> make sure they match the side bulkheads at the correct location. A
> few people (including me) have had problems with that.
>
Aghhh! Me to. About 2' back from bow, the boat as I built it, is
about 1" wider each side than the forward deck panel. I might be able
to pull it in with a ratcheting strap, but I don't want to force in
that level of stress. Pulling in the sides may also cause the the
seams at the bottom chine to open a little.
I'll probably end up buying another sheet of ply, fitting it cut well
oversize, and triming down last of all. Lesson learned (hopefully).
I was flying along, but a new addition to the family put a halt to the
gallop for a while. Hope to get moving again soon, and be finished in
time for the summer.
Andrew has more practical knowledge than me (having finished his), but
any questions, let me know.
Best of luck,
Bookieb.
Parallax
BookieB:
I appreciate hearing about your experience too. This the first thing
I have ever really built from wood so I am really learning as I go.
I finally got the fwd and aft bulkheads and cockpit sides glued to
their stringers, cut notches in the ends of the bulkheads, etc. I
hope I got the stringers oriented correctly, if not, the sabre saw
will do the job.
After coating my hands with this glue (after two days and every kind
of solvent I can find, it still will not come off without taking off
skin although it is wearing off), I have decided to go slower. A less
frantic pace will lead to fewer errors and a nicer job. I spent some
time using the surform tool on the bulkhead stringers to make things
really smooth and even.
My wife says she is impressed although she may just be humoring me and
wondering if I have gone nuts.
Parallax
OK, I did screw up. Just admiring my work when I noticed that I made
three left cockpit bulkheads and only one right one. Not too much of
a problem as I do have he material to make the correct one.
Brian Combs
fake a great finish. While a perfect fit would be nice many (most?) of us
are not able to accomplish that (and with some of the new glues the perfect
fit is not desirable)
save your sawdust--mix with epoxy and fill as needed.
seams that are glassed can take a lot of less than perfect fit and seams
that have a fillet . . . .
now Mr. Sawdust in his book on setting up the Dewalt RAS talks about getting
tolerances of 1/128th of an inch. That is lost on me as I have trouble
seeing a 32nd on the rule and a 64th I just can't even see.
give yourself a break and enjoy tolerances that a real person can sometimes
do.
Brian
Parallax
Brian:
I appreciate that perspective because I have been wondering about the
correct philosophy of wooden boatbuilding. Although I strive for
accuracy, it is unattainable for a person of little woodworking skills
like me. So, do I remake parts that dont quite fit or do I make them
fit and then "make do" by covering with epoxy putty in the end? Being
somewhat pressed for time and being impatient, I know I will simply
"make do". However, one of my intentions with this project was to
determine if I had what it takes to possibly make a larger boat later.
Last night, I attached the aft bulkheads to the cockpit sides.
Although I thought I had measured the cockpit sides correctly at 10.5
inches, mine came out at 10.25" and it looks as if they should be
maybe 10.75" high. I guess I will make some sort of shim.
William R. Watt
> I appreciate that perspective because I have been wondering about the
> correct philosophy of wooden boatbuilding. Although I strive for
> accuracy, it is unattainable for a person of little woodworking skills
> like me. So, do I remake parts that dont quite fit or do I make them
> fit and then "make do" by covering with epoxy putty in the end? Being
> somewhat pressed for time and being impatient, I know I will simply
> "make do". However, one of my intentions with this project was to
> determine if I had what it takes to possibly make a larger boat later.
when making my first boat, the plywood Dogskiff on my website, I bent the
plywood around the central frame and held the ends in place with string
and tape while I measured for the transom and took the framing angles with
a carpenter's bevel. The pieces were then cut to the exact angle. It may
be a cheap boat but I couldn't get a fingernail between the plywood and a
frame at any point. Close fits and bedding (putting some kind of goo
between the wooden pieces) can make a boat last much longer. People have
criticised my practice of using low cost materials but the boats are still
in regular use.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Andrew Butchart
> After coating my hands with this glue (after two days and every kind
> of solvent I can find, it still will not come off without taking off
> skin although it is wearing off), I have decided to go slower. A less
> frantic pace will lead to fewer errors and a nicer job. I spent some
> time using the surform tool on the bulkhead stringers to make things
> really smooth and even.
>
> My wife says she is impressed although she may just be humoring me and
> wondering if I have gone nuts.
I don't know what glue you are using, but for the last few years I've
been using latex gloves anytime I use adhesives or coatings. The
gloves are cheap when you buy them by the box and some of the products
that get used can have a bad effect on you over time.
With that said, I seem to get glue on my hands anyway somehow.
Andrew Butchart
Parallax
> Parallax (dbo...@mindspring.com) writes:
>
> > I appreciate that perspective because I have been wondering about the
> > correct philosophy of wooden boatbuilding. Although I strive for
> > accuracy, it is unattainable for a person of little woodworking skills
> > like me. So, do I remake parts that dont quite fit or do I make them
> > fit and then "make do" by covering with epoxy putty in the end? Being
> > somewhat pressed for time and being impatient, I know I will simply
> > "make do". However, one of my intentions with this project was to
> > determine if I had what it takes to possibly make a larger boat later.
>
> when making my first boat, the plywood Dogskiff on my website, I bent the
> plywood around the central frame and held the ends in place with string
> and tape while I measured for the transom and took the framing angles with
> a carpenter's bevel. The pieces were then cut to the exact angle. It may
> be a cheap boat but I couldn't get a fingernail between the plywood and a
> frame at any point. Close fits and bedding (putting some kind of goo
> between the wooden pieces) can make a boat last much longer. People have
> criticised my practice of using low cost materials but the boats are still
> in regular use.
Just got the cockpits and fwd bulkheads attached to the hull bottoms.
This went better than I thought it would. The hull bottoms bent
nicely to follow the bulkheads. For this, I used the 1" #8 screws
instead of the 3/4" ones because I wanted more holding power. They
did go all the way through the stringers. They arent a work of art,
but I think they are ok.
William R. Watt
>... I used the 1" #8 screws
> instead of the 3/4" ones because I wanted more holding power. They
> did go all the way through the stringers. They arent a work of art,
> but I think they are ok.
I wouldn't do this on the hull below the waterline. Screws should only go
3/4 of the way into the last piece. When in doubt put them closer
together. However if you are using screws and glue the screws are not that
important. They clamp the pieces togehter until the glue sets. I've
removed the screws and had the glue hold fine. BTW when I have used
oversize screws in a pinch I've ground down the protruding points with a
grinding wheel on an electric drill. Its too easy to grab hold of a boat
somewhere and scratch a finger or palm on one of those points.
Parallax
> Parallax (dbo...@mindspring.com) writes:
>
> >... I used the 1" #8 screws
> > instead of the 3/4" ones because I wanted more holding power. They
> > did go all the way through the stringers. They arent a work of art,
> > but I think they are ok.
>
> I wouldn't do this on the hull below the waterline. Screws should only go
> 3/4 of the way into the last piece. When in doubt put them closer
> together. However if you are using screws and glue the screws are not that
> important. They clamp the pieces togehter until the glue sets. I've
> removed the screws and had the glue hold fine. BTW when I have used
> oversize screws in a pinch I've ground down the protruding points with a
> grinding wheel on an electric drill. Its too easy to grab hold of a boat
> somewhere and scratch a finger or palm on one of those points.
William Watt:
Good Point!
Tonight, got one centerboard box made, ran out of material (3" wide
material) for second. Decided not to enclose it before sealing and
painting it. Strange that the instructions do not specify painting
the inside before enclosing it.
Began working on bow frame before I ran out of light.
William R. Watt
> Tonight, got one centerboard box made, ran out of material (3" wide
> material) for second. Decided not to enclose it before sealing and
> painting it. Strange that the instructions do not specify painting
> the inside before enclosing it.
On the one daggerboard trunk that I've made I gave the inside surfaces two
coats of polyester resin for abraision resistance, just the inside exposed
surface, leaving the gluing surfaces uncoated. To help the polyester
adhere to the plywood the first coat was put on uncatalysed and allowed to
soak in over night before the second catalysed coat was put on. Then the
inside surfaces were given two coats of polyurethane liquid plastic for
extra waterproofing. This was a winter project so had the luxury of lots
of time to allow things to cure. It was also a lower cost alternative to
coating the inside with epoxy resin. I reserved the more expensive epoxy
to gluing the daggerboard to the boat and sealing the slot with a couple
additional coats.
Rick Tyler
wrote:
>After coating my hands with this glue (after two days and every kind
>of solvent I can find, it still will not come off without taking off
>skin although it is wearing off), I have decided to go slower.
The only thing that gets polyurethane glue off human skin is time. It
takes a week to ten days for me. Remember, too, that Gorilla glue has
NO gap filling properties. That is to say, the foamed glue has no
appreciable strength. You need good, tight mechanical contact for
polyurethane glue to do any good. The sloppy/beginning wooden
boatbuilder's best friend is epoxy. With the right fillers it is both
a powerful epoxy, and the gaps are nearly as strong as the material
you are gluing together. You will also find that the ounce-for-ounce
price of marine epoxies is not that much different from polyurethane
glues (but let's not have a flamewar over this, please?).
> A less
>frantic pace will lead to fewer errors and a nicer job. I spent some
>time using the surform tool on the bulkhead stringers to make things
>really smooth and even.
If you just want a boat -- buy one. If you enjoy the building
process, I think you are wise. If you hurry, you'll just start
focusing on the next boat.
- Rick
--
"Ignorant voracity -- a wingless vulture -- can soar only into the
depths of ignominy." Patrick O'Brian
Parallax
> Parallax (dbo...@mindspring.com) writes:
>
> > Tonight, got one centerboard box made, ran out of material (3" wide
> > material) for second. Decided not to enclose it before sealing and
> > painting it. Strange that the instructions do not specify painting
> > the inside before enclosing it.
>
> On the one daggerboard trunk that I've made I gave the inside surfaces two
> coats of polyester resin for abraision resistance, just the inside exposed
> surface, leaving the gluing surfaces uncoated. To help the polyester
> adhere to the plywood the first coat was put on uncatalysed and allowed to
> soak in over night before the second catalysed coat was put on. Then the
> inside surfaces were given two coats of polyurethane liquid plastic for
> extra waterproofing. This was a winter project so had the luxury of lots
> of time to allow things to cure. It was also a lower cost alternative to
> coating the inside with epoxy resin. I reserved the more expensive epoxy
> to gluing the daggerboard to the boat and sealing the slot with a couple
> additional coats.
Over the weekend, made centerboard boxes and installed them, Bow
frames and installed, Tapered bow but the plywood split on one and
required repair. Installed bow gussets. Bow gussets were a problem
as it is hard to determine whta is correct angle. Directions say 45
degrees which seems too large. Am now ready for installing sides.
I used epoxy to glue centerboard box and bow frame. Things are not
really fitting right but I make mods as required and patch with
thickened epoxy
Parallax
I have run into a MAJOR problem when attaching the sides. On the left
side, it almost fits well although I havent fastened the bow. On the
right side, it is a disaster. I somehow managed to fasten it so it
goes below the bottom stringer so there is no way it can possibly fit
at the bow. The left side can be made to fit the bow, but the right
side will be left with about a 1" gap at the top tapering toward the
rear. Furthermore, there is no way the top stringer can attach to
this side piece but will simply sit atop it. This could be fixed with
fibreglass tape in the end but that isnt very elegant. I suspect I
have to remove the right side, cutting the glued joint with the saber
saw.
\
I have decided not to do ANY more work on boat #2 until I solve this
problem on #1, otherwise I will simply repeat my mistakes.
Parallax
Got the right side off again but even the left side does not really
fit right at the bow. If I try to get it's top edge within reasonable
distance of the bow end of the bow frame, say within 3/4" of being the
same height, then it misses the bottom stringer about 3' back adjacent
to the mast hole.
Options include:
1. Reduce the front height of the bow frame thus tapering the bow
downward just a little more, say 3/4". This will involve adding depth
to the top bow frame stringer.
2. Install the sides as best I can along the stringers aft of the bow
but make a thicker deck stringer for the bow. This can be done by
gluing a tapered piece to the deck stringer. The ply will not come
all the way up to the height of the bow frame at the bow but the space
will be covered by the thicker stringer. Epoxy putty will cover the
error.
3. Use a thicker bottom stringer (a stringer thickener) near the mast
hole but I dont think this will solve the whole problem.
4. Forcing the bottom adjacent to the mast hole up might allow the
stringer to be covered by the side. I am not sure what this will do
to the bottom shape. Not sure how to do this but I will try the
following: Use a strap clamp around the mast/centerboard box passing
over the outsides of the bottom stringers on either side and around
the bottom. Tighten, observe hull shape, tighten more, etc. Put in
screws thru side to hold it. MAYBE the strap clamp can then be pulled
out from between the side and the bottom stringer.
5. Perhaps a combo of 1,2,3 above.
Parallax
Strap clamp does work but does distort the bottom just a little. I
may need anothe clamp nearer the bow. I may also still need a little
thicker stringer at the bow.
BTW, "Gorilla Glue" does work for flat pieces but I was easily able to
separate the sides from the stringers (well, not easily, but at least
possible) so I will use epoxy for any parts under tension.
William R. Watt
usual practice is to do a dry fit befroe gluing up. its one reason for
using screws, they can be removed and reinserted. so you fit the pieces
together, sand protruding edges, then take them apart, apply glue, and put
them back together again. I just make a plywood backrest for my 4 year old
Loonie one sheeter. Cut out and fit, installed dry and tried out on
dry land, adjusted, then refit, before gluing up and painting.
Parallax
> lesson learned.
>
> usual practice is to do a dry fit befroe gluing up. its one reason for
> using screws, they can be removed and reinserted. so you fit the pieces
> together, sand protruding edges, then take them apart, apply glue, and put
> them back together again. I just make a plywood backrest for my 4 year old
> Loonie one sheeter. Cut out and fit, installed dry and tried out on
> dry land, adjusted, then refit, before gluing up and painting.
OK, here are my choices:
1. Taper the bow center frame more so its front end more nearly
matches the height of the sides at the bow point, or,
2. Add more height to the stringers along the top of the sides near
the bow by gluing a very long wedge shaped piece to the stringer.
Suggestions?
bookieb
> ag...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (William R. Watt) wrote in message news:<c635nt$dph$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca>...
> > lesson learned.
> >
> OK, here are my choices:
>
> 1. Taper the bow center frame more so its front end more nearly
> matches the height of the sides at the bow point, or,
>
> 2. Add more height to the stringers along the top of the sides near
> the bow by gluing a very long wedge shaped piece to the stringer.
>
> Suggestions?
The stringers shouldn't bridge a gap where you can't get the side
panels to meet the bottom - the panels need to be in contact, or very
close to it, and the stringer needs to fill the angle between the two.
Building up the stringer to bridge the gap sounds weak and dificult
to seal effectively.
I'd suggest slowing down a bit - put aside half an hour to check that
everything is now symetrical and level.
Check that the boat is level and evenly supported all round, then
sight down the centre frame, and measure from a central point on the
daggerboard case to the edge of the bottom panel on each side -
checking measurements are near enough the same each side, everything
is straight, etc etc.
You can fix any problems you find now, but when you have the side
panels attached all the way to the bow, that's about that (without
major surgery).
I had to bow out the top edge of each side panel fairly severely to
get the front of the side panel to turn up enought to meet the forward
end of the bow frame. This meant cutting in a fairly sharp bevel into
the side of the bottom stringers - far more than the normal 7deg.
There was a fair amount of sweatin' and cursin' before I got a good
fit.
Do a test fit with half the number of screws before going near the
glue bottle.
When you're happy, release, glue up, then rescrew.
Good luck,
bookieb
Parallax
Used BookieB advice. Got things to fit better but had to cut a
radical angle on bottom stringer, probably 20 degrees. Still had to
reduce height of bow frame by 1/4". Managed to get sides mostly
glued. Am using epoxy that is very old and it seems to set up very
fast even with very little hardener.
Parallax
Took 3 1/2 days off to go caving. This evening, managed to get the transom on.
Parallax
Only managed to do a little caulking today.
Andrew Butchart
news:792abaf9.04042...@posting.google.com...
<big snip>
> Only managed to do a little caulking today.
I go through this with all my projects - sometimes they'll sit for more than
a month - in fact there's a repair project in the living room that's been
waiting for more than a year (built a boat in that time though <g>)
--
Andrew Butchart
and...@floatingbear.ca
http://www.floatingbear.ca
Parallax
> "Parallax" <dbo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:792abaf9.04042...@posting.google.com...
> <big snip>
> > Only managed to do a little caulking today.
>
> I go through this with all my projects - sometimes they'll sit for more than
> a month - in fact there's a repair project in the living room that's been
> waiting for more than a year (built a boat in that time though <g>)
This morn, I pre-fastened the stringers along the top of the sides. I
will have to wait till my son gets home from school to really fasten
and glue it. My biggest mistake with this boat was that when I put
together the cockpit frame, i managed to get it a little twisted and
this has slightly twisted the entire boat. I believe I can deal with
this.
I hope that the next boat which I stopped when I fastened the cockpit
frame will go better as I have learned a few lessons.
I began this project as a test to see if I was psychologically suited
to building a larger boat and I think I already have my answer. My
innattention to detail is a real problem. Furhtermore, although I
know better, my mind erroneously interprets detailed directions as
"here is a suggested way to do it but you might be able to find a
better easier way". Those who can pay attention to small details and
follow directions have my admiration and envy.
William R. Watt
>... My biggest mistake with this boat was that when I put
> together the cockpit frame, i managed to get it a little twisted and
> this has slightly twisted the entire boat. I believe I can deal with
> this.
sometimes the directions say to tie a piece of string from bow to transom
along the centre line to keep the boat lined up. use of a carpenter's level
and square also help keep everything level, plumb, and lined up.
AKF
> radical angle on bottom stringer, probably 20 degrees. Still had to
> reduce height of bow frame by 1/4". Managed to get sides mostly
> glued. Am using epoxy that is very old and it seems to set up very
> fast even with very little hardener.
With polyester you can vary the amont of catalyst to account for temp. or
time of cure required. With epoxy you should use exactly the amount of
hardener specified by the manufacurer. Mix only as much as you can use;
as you say it cures quickly... the exception being if you spread it out
thin when it can take a suprising amount of time. Therefore a little in a
large pot will set more slowly than a small pot full, if you see what I mean.
Use gloves and generally keep it off your skin; some people do react to it
over time. Many yards keep a bucket of water for dumping the used pots in...
well, it keeps them from smoking anyway!
Adrian
Andrew Butchart
One thing that I've noticed is that the Stevenson designs are very well
documented for the amateur builder. Most designs just give you some
drawings - often with bits left off - and you have to figure the rest out.
Being able to "interpret" is a great help there.
Parallax
Did some filling with epoxy and installed the upper transom gusset.
Am now ready to paint the interior tonight. Any thoughts on
reinforcing joints with fibreglas tape?
As for epoxy, I once ground out all the blisters, refilled them and
faired and epoxy coated and then painted a badly blistered 23' boat.
It was the most complicated thing I have ever done, more complicated
than any of the physics courses I took. Epoxy is nice to work with,
much better than the smelly regular fibreglas resin. My skin seems to
have no problem with epoxy. My epoxy resin is 10 yrs old and left
over from that project.
An interesting product would be fibreglas tape, say 4" wide in a bag
pre-impregnated with resin that would catalyze on exposure to water.
It could be used by home boat builders or by boaters in an emergency.
David
Parallax
This afternoon, I managed to get the inside of boat #1 painted. It is
now ready for decking.
Yesterday, I did the centerboard box for #2.
AKF
>
> Did some filling with epoxy and installed the upper transom gusset.
> Am now ready to paint the interior tonight. Any thoughts on
> reinforcing joints with fibreglas tape?
Reinforcing with woven tape is a good idea. Fillet the angle first with
epoxy filler; this avoids trying to force the tape into a sharp angle which
it won't accept anyway. Work all the air out from under the tape; various
rollers are available for this.
> As for epoxy, I once ground out all the blisters, refilled them and
> faired and epoxy coated and then painted a badly blistered 23' boat.
> It was the most complicated thing I have ever done, more complicated
> than any of the physics courses I took. Epoxy is nice to work with,
> much better than the smelly regular fibreglas resin. My skin seems to
> have no problem with epoxy. My epoxy resin is 10 yrs old and left
> over from that project.
Well, if your epoxy is still working, go for it! DIY osmosis treatment is
an impressive first project, respect due for trying it. What with that and
your current project it seems you are really a closet boatbuilder, best carry
on! BTW, regarding your woodworking skills; practice really does make perfect,
and don't disregard the old fashioned hand operated plane. A low angle block
plane with a sharp iron is still the most used tool in the boat joiners tool-
kit. Check out books and articles on 'spiling' (spileing?), if you haven't
already, for tips on how to get those awkward angles and curves onto the
workpiece.
The point about epoxy sensitization is that the effects of exposure seem to
be cumulative. So, no problem for years, then... After the problem has started
there appears to be no going back; I've heard of a yard owner (maybe on this
group) who has to vacate his shop altogether when eoxy is being used. Strangely
polyester with all it's known toxic and carcinogenic constituents and additives
has little effect. Imagine the concentrations inside a chain locker, for
instance. Yet workers spend hours inside such places glassing up, flowcoating
etc.
> An interesting product would be fibreglas tape, say 4" wide in a bag
> pre-impregnated with resin that would catalyze on exposure to water.
> It could be used by home boat builders or by boaters in an emergency.
>
> David
Pre-preg is a whole other subject, which I know nothing about!
HTH,
Adrian.
Parallax
A "Closet Boatbuilder", whodathunkit? I thought being a sailor with a
caving problem was bad. Does the American Psychiatric Assocoation
list this as just a disorder or a full blown mental illness? Might
explain why I cant stop trying to improve on that folding dinghy I saw
on the net.
BTW, I didnt realize Andrew Buttchart's role in all this till I read
the BYYB site. Thanks Andrew. How do I join the BYYB?
Raining off and on so I cannot put the deck on #1 so I am working on
parts for #2. Do I dare try painting with oil base paint on a rainy
night? Might not dry properly but it is on the inside and I would
like to get the deck on this weekend.
I know that part of this project is guilt for paying somebody else to
do work on my big boat (28' S2 sailboat). Have never paid anybody to
work on my boat but the distance I would have to drive to work on her
and never having right tools on hand made it seem like the right thing
to do (a bad decision).
Parallax
Solved my mast problem with #2, cut the mast hole and pushed a piece
of 2"x4" cut to right dimensions down into a bed of glue at the bottom
and screwed it in from the sides. Got the bow frame mounted and bow
tapered to it.
On #1, got the decks installed, however, didnt have enough packing
peanuts for the bow so did not glue the bow deck on yet. I thought i
had LOTS of packing peanuts from work but they only filled the
transom. Had lots of problems with the bow deck getting it to bend
enough. Used a strap clamp wrapped around the deck and hull to pull
them together. Heard lots of creaks and pops, tightened the clamp,
heard more, tightened more, screws pulled through the luan, I used
more screws and tightened more, strap began to tear the luan so I put
a board undetr the edge to spread the load and tightened more.
Finally the luan simply tore in a ragged gash. I sorta expected this.
I know the side stringers are waaaaay too low (this one was twisted
cuz the cockpit frame was twisted) so I added strips of luan to the
stringers to add height to the stringers. Will glass over the nasty
looking joint.
Got the rudder box sides cut for both boats.
My impression is that in spite of my blind installation of the
centerboard box, #2 is going better.
Parallax
After getting new glasses so I wouldnt have to try to sail using
underwater currents instead of wind, I managed to get the bow deck on
#1. It isnt pretty and the luan is seriously cracking but I plan to
glass over those. I need serious amounts of epoxy filler.
I got bow gussets on #1.
I put together two rudder boxes.
William R. Watt
> After getting new glasses so I wouldnt have to try to sail using
> underwater currents instead of wind, I managed to get the bow deck on
> #1. It isnt pretty and the luan is seriously cracking but I plan to
> glass over those. I need serious amounts of epoxy filler.
>
> I got bow gussets on #1.
>
> I put together two rudder boxes.
Let's hope you are getting better at boats than newsgroup articles.
Do you know how to delete what's been written before? :)
Andrew Butchart
>
> A "Closet Boatbuilder", whodathunkit? I thought being a sailor with a
> caving problem was bad. Does the American Psychiatric Assocoation
> list this as just a disorder or a full blown mental illness? Might
> explain why I cant stop trying to improve on that folding dinghy I saw
> on the net.
> BTW, I didnt realize Andrew Buttchart's role in all this till I read
> the BYYB site. Thanks Andrew. How do I join the BYYB?
> Raining off and on so I cannot put the deck on #1 so I am working on
> parts for #2. Do I dare try painting with oil base paint on a rainy
> night? Might not dry properly but it is on the inside and I would
> like to get the deck on this weekend.
> I know that part of this project is guilt for paying somebody else to
> do work on my big boat (28' S2 sailboat). Have never paid anybody to
> work on my boat but the distance I would have to drive to work on her
> and never having right tools on hand made it seem like the right thing
> to do (a bad decision).
Sorry for the delay - I'm not watching UseNet very closely these days.
We'd be happy to have you on the BYYB - there should be a link on the
left hand side of the main web page at http://www.byyb.org And of
course you can feel free to participate in our web forums without
joining - there are a couple of MiniCup builders there.
Andrew Butchart
and...@floatingbear.ca
Parallax
Andrew:
Unfortunately, that link tries to take me through Outlook Express and
that does not work for me. A simple e-mail address would be better if
it is available.
David
Parallax
Sorry William Watt, I am a computer illiterate physicist.
Andrew Butchart
> and...@floatingbear.ca (Andrew Butchart) wrote in message news:<6d5df73f.04050...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > We'd be happy to have you on the BYYB - there should be a link on the
> > left hand side of the main web page at http://www.byyb.org And of
> > course you can feel free to participate in our web forums without
> > joining - there are a couple of MiniCup builders there.
> >
> > Andrew Butchart
> > and...@floatingbear.ca
>
> Andrew:
>
> Unfortunately, that link tries to take me through Outlook Express and
> that does not work for me. A simple e-mail address would be better if
> it is available.
>
> David
You can contact the secretary at secr...@byyb.org however one of the
main benefits of the BYYB is it's online web forums which you should
be able to get to by opening your web browser to http://www.byyb.org
Andrew Butchart
and...@floatingbear.ca
Parallax
Got the centerboards and rudders cut out. Faired the edges (chines?
never been certain what were chines)of #1 with surform, looks ok.
Applied fibreglas tape to some edges.
Considering lessening the length of daggerboard for shoal draft, will
wait till I try the standard length.
Parallax
As the plans say, getting the aluminum mast is difficult. I tried the
local Metal Supermarkets, plans say 16' of 2-2.375" .065 wall Al
tubing. All they could get was 2" .125 wall thickness. Considered
using it but it would flop around in the big mast hole so found a
place on internet selling 2.25" .065 wall in 16' length for $109,
other two pieces for the lateen rig will be 12' 2" .o65 wall for $95
each for a total of $299 for each boat......WOW. No idea what
shipping will cost. Any ideas anyone? Should I use the 2" .125 wall
from Metal Supermarkets (essentially free since they owe me money)?
William R. Watt
> As the plans say, getting the aluminum mast is difficult. I tried the
> local Metal Supermarkets, plans say 16' of 2-2.375" .065 wall Al
> tubing. All they could get was 2" .125 wall thickness. Considered
> using it but it would flop around in the big mast hole so found a
> place on internet selling 2.25" .065 wall in 16' length for $109,
> other two pieces for the lateen rig will be 12' 2" .o65 wall for $95
> each for a total of $299 for each boat......WOW. No idea what
> shipping will cost. Any ideas anyone? Should I use the 2" .125 wall
> from Metal Supermarkets (essentially free since they owe me money)?
depends on what you are doing for sails. there will be some difference in
mast bend which is usually taken into consideration in the cut of the
sail. I would use the free material and if not satisfied replace with the
other next year. I doubt it would make much difference to the pleasure and
enjoyment of the boats the first year or two. The extra thickness of the
walls certainly removes any concern about strength. A bit of extra weight
aloft should also not matter at this stage.
bookieb
> local Metal Supermarkets, plans say 16' of 2-2.375" .065 wall Al
> tubing. All they could get was 2" .125 wall thickness. Considered
> using it but it would flop around in the big mast hole so found a
> place on internet selling 2.25" .065 wall in 16' length for $109,
> other two pieces for the lateen rig will be 12' 2" .o65 wall for $95
> each for a total of $299 for each boat......WOW. No idea what
> shipping will cost. Any ideas anyone? Should I use the 2" .125 wall
> from Metal Supermarkets (essentially free since they owe me money)?
Hi,
just did a few numbers (everything in decimal inches/ sq. / cu. as
appropriate), and assuming the same density of aluminium in each, just
to compare the tubes.:
1.56 oz./cu. in. is just an encyclopedia value for the density of
aluminium (2700Kg/cu. M).
Based on a 16" length.
Recomended tubing:
Diameter 2.375
Outside Radius 1.1875
Outside Area 4.430136515
Wall Thickness 0.065
Inside Radius 1.1225
Inside Area 3.958426378
C/S Area 0.471710137
Volume of 192" 90.56834629
1.56oz/cu. In. 141.2866202
Pounds 8.830413763
Metals Supermarket tubing:
Diameter 2
Outside Radius 1
Outside Area 3.141592654
Wall Thickness 0.125
Inside Radius 0.875
Inside Area 2.405281875
C/S Area 0.736310778
Volume of 192" 141.3716694
1.56oz/cu. In. 220.5398043
Pounds 13.78373777
Someone might check that over - I'm a metric kid, and these ancient
mariner inches, rods, bushels etc. confuse me no end. Alternatively,
I may have just made a hames of the numbers.
Tubing you're suggesting is 55% heavier than the suggested tubing.
It'll also be up pretty high -a 5metre length of this forms the upper
spar of the lateen rig, and it's held up pretty high at the aft end.
Someone more clued in than me could tell you how the difference in
radius and wall thickness would affect strength and stiffness
(stiffness increasing in proportion to square of radius or somthing?).
Generally, the worst place for more weight is up high.
However...
...the building notes are pretty slack when it comes to specifying
tubing for the masts.
You're still within the 2"-2.375" range per the plans.
They suggest everything from irrigation piping to car exhaust
sections.
They also say that if the tubing is too flexible, it can be stiffened
with a baton of wood running along the line of stress (fore-and-aft in
most of the tubes), so there's probably a fair margin of safety in the
measurments.
As usual, it's up to you. I'd hate to say it looks Ok, then have the
rig come down on your head in the first stiff breeze you go out in.
If you you do use the smaller tubing, just shim the mast hole, but
make the shims removable - stick em' in with a few blobs of silicone
on the back so that they'll stay where they are, but can easily be
pried off if required.
Seems you've still got a fair bit of finishing, filling and painting
to do before you need the masts anyway, so I'd keep looking round for
a bit, rather than blast ahead when you could get better stuff.
Regards,
bookieb.