Long rides, hot humid weather = replenishing electrolytes?

[Sir Ridesalot]

Saw a guy after a 100 km (60 miles) ride develop such severe cramps he
was taken by ambulance to emergency department. Followup showed he
was given four IV pouches to replenish electrolytes. This ven though
he gad drank five bottles of water and one bottle of G\torade during
the ride.

Good thing it happened after the ride. It's a bit scary to think about
what could have happened had he had this happen at another time if he
was riding alone.

So, what is a good way to keep your electrolytes up on a long ride in
hot humid weather? Temperature day of the ride was around 40 C
counting the humidex index.

Is drinking water with just sodium and potassium in it enough?
What other electrolytes does one need to replenish?

Thanks and cheers

[Duane]

I usually use an electrolyte powder like Ultima which contains calcium,
chloride, magnesium, potassium, sodium, selenium, zinc, and phosphorus.
Maybe a bottle or two of gatorade as well. Seems to work though we
rarely get above 36C even with the humidex.

Also, for a longish ride, hydration needs to start the day before. I
think diet can also be an issue.

[thirty-six]

It's helpful but if you are using public supply tap water at least
drop ith through a carbon filter and salt it with unrefined sea salt.
Sodium and magnesium are the principal requirements which are in the
sea salt followed by potassium which is the piece of fruit you carry
in your pocket. Alittle lemon juice and sugar can increase
palatability of the water but one should get used to drinking straight
salted water.

[datakoll]

pre hydrate night and during the pre morning AM tween sleeping. Use a pol jug to piss into. Piss should be a light clear gold color with minus odor. Pasta dinner with salad.

serious strecth warmup-search: stretch bicycle

after eat chicken soup, energy drink with fruit juice, coupla slice green pepper/tomato.

stretch

[datakoll]

iN fLORIDA, pre-hydration was ace. Always drink water, spring or distilled. Evening and during the night when awakened, drink 2X. Eat pasta at pre dinner.

Try pissing in a gallon poly jug (pref from spring water) checking colour. A clear golden pee is pre hydrate level.

after eat a light dinner of chicken soup, lightenergy drink mixed with fruit juice, and a few fresh vegtables, coupla slice pepper and tomato.

[raamman]

LOL! 100 km ride and this ? how rarely did he ride ? absolutely
ridiculous to hear someone in such bad shape with a few hours on the
road, regardless of the humidex- there must be another factor in there
that is not reported.

[Lou Holtman]

Op 13-6-2012 20:17, raamman schreef:

Exactly what I thought. I never drink 5 bottles and one Gatorate in a
100 km ride my stomach can't handle that amount.

Lou

[Duane]

Maybe he's climbing. Maybe he's slow. Question is still valid.

[Lou Holtman]

Op 13-6-2012 21:28, Duane schreef:

Maybe, but for sure he didn't know what he was doing. I always say don't
put just water in your waterbottles especially in that kind of weather.

Lou

[thirty-six]

On Jun 13, 5:47 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> pre hydrate night and during the pre morning AM tween sleeping. Use a pol jug to piss into. Piss should be a light clear gold color with minus odor. Pasta dinner with salad.
>
> serious strecth warmup-search: stretch bicycle

Yup, many don't realise that the exercising muscles take water from
the circulation. A warm-up and a massage will ensure maximal muscle
uptake and then water taken will go to replace the lost circulatory
volume so protecting the vital organs. After 1/2 hour of warm-up I'd
need 40oz water to replace that pulled from my circulation by my legs
and back, and that was without a following massage.

>
> after eat chicken soup, energy drink with fruit juice, coupla slice green pepper/tomato.
>
> stretch

and fat and cholesterol. They are essential to keep the nerves and
endocrine system functioning for high performance.

[thirty-six]

Anything past 20floz of clean water means salt is needed IMO.

[Duane]

Agreed. That was one of my first responses. Second was to hydrate the
day before as Gene said.

[Sir Ridesalot]

I've no idea how often or far this guy rode prior to this ride. I do
know that he was in extreme pain after. There was a massage therapist
on hand to give massages to some riders but after she felt this guy's
leg muscles she said he was too tight for her to be able to help.

There were some hills throughout the ride but nothing really extreme.
When I was trying to get the guy to help and then get better help to
him I was concerned that there was an underlying problem that the ride
worsened.

Talked to him after he was released from hospital and he says he was
fine after the IV was finished.

Like many others here I too am puzzled as to why he got such severe
cramps after the ride. Hence my question on how to replenish
electrolytes during a ride. BTW this guy is by no means overweight.
He's 156 pounds and 5'9" or thereabouts.

I do appreciate all of the advice.

Cheers

[James]

I don't bother with salt and sugar in my water bottles. I drink water.
When I stop and there is a bountiful supply of water and alternatives
I'll drink the odd powerade, gatorade or coke, and fill up the water
bottles with water.

I agree with Duane that proper hydration starts the day or two days before.

FWIW, 40C and humid weather should not be a problem for 100 km / 3.5
hours of riding, provided it is prepared for and done sensibly.

Correct clothing and preparation as well as plenty of water during the
ride are the key, as well as not trying too hard during the ride. 40C
is above normal operating conditions (37 degrees C) for the human body.
Include humidity and cooling via evaporation is limited even with
increased air flow. Shade and good ventilation are paramount. I've
also found some sunscreens seem to limit sweat flow.

--
J "200 km Alpine Audax in 45 C, and 12 bidons later" S.

[James]

200 km in 45 C over 3 mountains and I went through 12 bottles. Your
stomach would handle it, if it was pouring out of your skin fast enough.

--
JS

[James]

I had a short spell off the bike for a while. Can't recall how long.
This experience was too long ago. Anyway, one of my first rides after
this break was a 150km training ride that was a regular Wednesday
morning thing. About 20 km to go, at the top of a climb we call "The
Wall", I found myself in a great deal of pain as both legs, quads and
hamstrings went into cramp.

It was not to do with water or salt or sugar. Simply lack of condition
and riding on memories. Shit happens. The next week I had no problems.

--
JS.

[thirty-six]

Low magnesium most likely. Eat your greens and beans.

[thirty-six]

Sunscreen will reduce vit-D response so allowing the build up of
calcium and reduction of the general hormone transport system.

[thirty-six]

As sweating in such temperatures is ineffectual in reducing body
temperature, one should minimise it by stopping and wiping away the
build up of salt on the skin using clean water and and cloth. Find
some shade under a tree and wait for 10 minutes before moving on.

[raamman]

On Jun 13, 6:40 pm, davethedave <davedfoster...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> A point everyone seems to agree on is the regular hydration thing. I live
> in an obscenely hot environment in the summer. Ranging from 30 - 53C
-


well, aren t you the f-ing lucky ducky- jeeze ! can we trade ?

(like hearing some guy complaining he has too much money)

[Joy Beeson]

On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 04:45:27 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
<i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Is drinking water with just sodium and potassium in it enough?
> What other electrolytes does one need to replenish?

I used to put orange juice in my water. But in hot weather, a
tablespoon of fruit juice in a pint of water tastes undrinkably
strong, so I started carrying a frozen bottle of juice to sip
alternately with water.

And I vividly remember a tour that encountered a fruit stand selling
PEACHES after climbing a very long hill. Don't remember when or
where, but oh, that dead-ripe peach.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

[Dan O]

You can't really replenish during the exertion. The purpose of
electrolytes added to water is to reduce the tendency of water
consuption to leech and flush electrolytes from the body.

You've really just got to limit the exertion to what your body is
conditioned for. Replenish and recover between exertions.

[datakoll]

possible shortcircuiting the Krebs cycle with no adequate warmup fostering a total body ease into anerobic cycles.

prob if nyou search, find there's a pop segment suffering from the problem ?

[Dan O]

On Jun 13, 3:40 pm, davethedave <davedfoster...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have found that sweat flow seems to limit some sunscreens.

>
> A point everyone seems to agree on is the regular hydration thing. I live
> in an obscenely hot environment in the summer. Ranging from 30 - 53C

> (53's very like being hit in the face with a baseball bat when you leave
> the air-con, I didn't even contemplate riding a bike.) Regular drinking
> of water is the only way. You have to keep at it like some kind of
> mission. You are limited in terms of absorption and sometimes it is
> leaving your body faster than you can physically replenish it. So you
> need to remain as hydrated as possible all the time to provide a buffer
> for those in water debt moments.

Well, yes. What you've got to do is approach the problem from more
than just the one - "add water" - angle, and regulate exposure to
depletion.

[Lou Holtman]

Op donderdag 14 juni 2012 08:43:52 UTC+2 schreef davethedave het volgende:

> On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:50:42 -0700, raamman wrote:
>
> > On Jun 13, 6:40 pm, davethedave <davedfoster...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> A point everyone seems to agree on is the regular hydration thing. I
> >> live in an obscenely hot environment in the summer. Ranging from 30 -
> >> 53C
> > -
> >
> >
> > well, aren t you the f-ing lucky ducky- jeeze ! can we trade ?
> >

> Er... No. You are more than welcome to move wherever you want though.
>
> You don't seem to have an innate understanding of heat. Therefore I
> assume you live somewhere chilly. 30 is uncomfortable. It may be great
> for a holiday where you just lie on a beach but when you factor in
> actually getting around and doing stuff it's a bit hot. 53C (127.4F for
> those leftpondians amongst us) is just so wrong it defies belief. It
> really is verging on impossible to do anything other than stay indoors
> with the aircon cranked up to 11.

>
> > (like hearing some guy complaining he has too much money)
>

> Did you see me whining about that? ;)
> --
> davethedave

You can punish/torture me with those temperatures. Yesterday 19 C, partly cloudy. Did 85 km/2,5 hour after work drank 1 bottle, ate nothing. Perfect. Well we lost the soccer game against Germany......

Lou, likes the seasons

[raamman]

On Jun 14, 2:43 am, davethedave <davedfoster...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:50:42 -0700, raamman wrote:

> > On Jun 13, 6:40 pm, davethedave <davedfoster...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> A point everyone seems to agree on is the regular hydration thing. I
> >> live in an obscenely hot environment in the summer. Ranging from 30 -
> >> 53C
> > -
>
> > well, aren t you the f-ing lucky ducky- jeeze ! can we trade ?
>

> Er... No. You are more than welcome to move wherever you want though.
>
> You don't seem to have an innate understanding of heat. Therefore I
> assume you live somewhere chilly. 30 is uncomfortable
.

On the contrary, I have an appreciation for heat- you don't; I guess
we all have our own "ideal" 30c is fine I was riding around in 37c a
week ago or so- it's fine for me; I was in N africa for summer
vacations decades ago- (dad was a petro-chem eng) Ive worked in hot
non-a/c sweat shops during heat waves here and I've done too much
riding around in minus 20c (not factoring in wind chill)- I have no
tolerance for cold anymore. I just hate it sooooo much now- even the
thought makes me cringe.
I have found higher heat and humidity to be more of an issue when one
tends to live/work in an ac environment with the transition (maybe
that was part of the victims problem) It seems to me that folks who
spend a lot of time in ac environments are subject to summer colds
Humidex values are a factor in exteme heat- but I find it more
comfortable riding in a high humidity than when stopped. Ive had some
great long hot weather hammers- I drink a lot of water and I ll sweat
like crazy- but I feel great. It's the air that can get bad with
particulates in heat that can be an issue -a problem with heat waves
is the staying factor; here, the air moves in and the pollution factor
goes up- heat by itself though, without the bad air- for me is
great.love it.

.


It may be great
> for a holiday where you just lie on a beach but when you factor in
> actually getting around and doing stuff it's a bit hot. 53C (127.4F for
> those leftpondians amongst us) is just so wrong it defies belief. It
> really is verging on impossible to do anything other than stay indoors
> with the aircon cranked up to 11.
>

> > (like hearing some guy complaining he has too much money)
>

[AMuzi]

Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 04:45:27 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
> <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>> Is drinking water with just sodium and potassium in it enough?
>> What other electrolytes does one need to replenish?
>
> I used to put orange juice in my water. But in hot weather, a
> tablespoon of fruit juice in a pint of water tastes undrinkably
> strong, so I started carrying a frozen bottle of juice to sip
> alternately with water.
>
> And I vividly remember a tour that encountered a fruit stand selling
> PEACHES after climbing a very long hill. Don't remember when or
> where, but oh, that dead-ripe peach.
>

At about 80 miles into a wet cold windy century, my riding
partner and I hit the wall and ate field corn, which got us
going again within minutes. Tasted as good as anything, at
that low-energy moment.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[James]

On 14/06/12 21:35, davethedave wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 04:01:00 -0700, raamman wrote:
>
>> On Jun 14, 2:43 am, davethedave<davedfoster...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:50:42 -0700, raamman wrote:
>>>> On Jun 13, 6:40 pm, davethedave<davedfoster...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> A point everyone seems to agree on is the regular hydration thing. I
>>>>> live in an obscenely hot environment in the summer. Ranging from 30
>>>>> - 53C
>>>> -
>>>
>>>> well, aren t you the f-ing lucky ducky- jeeze ! can we trade ?
>>>
>>> Er... No. You are more than welcome to move wherever you want though.
>>>
>>> You don't seem to have an innate understanding of heat. Therefore I
>>> assume you live somewhere chilly. 30 is uncomfortable
>> .
>> On the contrary, I have an appreciation for heat- you don't; I guess we
>> all have our own "ideal" 30c is fine I was riding around in 37c a week
>> ago or so- it's fine for me; I was in N africa for summer vacations
>> decades ago- (dad was a petro-chem eng) Ive worked in hot non-a/c sweat
>> shops during heat waves here and I've done too much riding around in
>> minus 20c (not factoring in wind chill)- I have no tolerance for cold
>> anymore. I just hate it sooooo much now- even the thought makes me
>> cringe.
>

> I just shivered when you mentioned -20C

>
>> I have found higher heat and humidity to be more of an issue when one
>> tends to live/work in an ac environment with the transition (maybe that
>> was part of the victims problem)
>

> I would agree that aircon is not always a good thing. However in extreme
> heat keeping it down to 28C - 30C indoors can be handy. I hate it when
> people have this obsession with making the place like a fridge. Banks are
> a main problem on this front. 45C outdoors 15C indoors (Brrrr).

>
>> It seems to me that folks who spend a
>> lot of time in ac environments are subject to summer colds Humidex
>> values are a factor in exteme heat- but I find it more comfortable
>> riding in a high humidity than when stopped.
>

> I would agree on both fronts. Illness and aircon do seem to be related,
> and Stopping is bad, (Mmmmmmkay) Constant airflow is required or the
> sweat just pours out. Careful judgement of speed on approach to lights to
> minimise stationary time is useful.

Now you're talkin'. Exactly what I find on hot summer days.

--
JS.

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

On 6/14/2012 1:43 AM, davethedave wrote:
> [...] 53C (127.4F for

> those leftpondians amongst us) is just so wrong it defies belief. It
> really is verging on impossible to do anything other than stay indoors

> with the aircon cranked up to 11.[...]

"Only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the mid-day sun." - Trad.

What is the humidity? I used to work on a mezzanine in a factory where
it was 120° F or more in the summer combined with high relative
humidity. Surprised more of us did not drop, since we were not allowed
anything but plain water (for product sanitation reasons, I suppose).

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
Post Free or Die!

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

On 6/14/2012 6:35 AM, davethedave wrote:
> I would agree that aircon is not always a good thing. However in extreme
> heat keeping it down to 28C - 30C indoors can be handy. I hate it when
> people have this obsession with making the place like a fridge. Banks are

> a main problem on this front. 45C outdoors 15C indoors (Brrrr).[...]

I had relatives that would have their place warmer in the winter than
the summer - completely nuts.

Other than keeping my feet warm, I would have no issue riding at -5°C
with just a wind-proof suit over a single fleece layer, and will ride
down to 10°C in shorts and a short-sleeve jersey.

On the other hand, I get sluggish and slow when it gets over 25°C.

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

Used to eat field corn all the time - not bad if you get it before it
matures too much. Of course, this was in the days before they had GMO
corn unsuitable for consumption as direct food.

[DirtRoadie]

On Jun 15, 7:07 am, davethedave <davedfoster...@gmail.com> wrote:

> currently 32% Which is nice. Often up to 90%. :(
>


Yesterday here it was 3%!
DR

[Ningi]

On 14/06/2012 05:32, Dan O wrote:
> On Jun 13, 4:45 am, Sir Ridesalot<i_am_cycle_pat...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> Saw a guy after a 100 km (60 miles) ride develop such severe cramps he
>> was taken by ambulance to emergency department. Followup showed he
>> was given four IV pouches to replenish electrolytes. This ven though
>> he gad drank five bottles of water and one bottle of G\torade during
>> the ride.
>>

He was given an IV to replenish water. The electrolytes make that easier.

>> Good thing it happened after the ride. It's a bit scary to think about
>> what could have happened had he had this happen at another time if he
>> was riding alone.
>>
>> So, what is a good way to keep your electrolytes up on a long ride in
>> hot humid weather? Temperature day of the ride was around 40 C
>> counting the humidex index.
>>

Don't drink too much.

>> Is drinking water with just sodium and potassium in it enough?
>> What other electrolytes does one need to replenish?
>>
>
> You can't really replenish during the exertion. The purpose of
> electrolytes added to water is to reduce the tendency of water
> consuption to leech and flush electrolytes from the body.
>

This. When you sweat you will lose more water than salts so the
concentration in your body is going up, not down. Electrolytes in
drinks are primarily for getting water absorbed at the fastest rate, not
replenishing salts in the body, which isn't needed in the short term.

Pete

[thirty-six]

On Jun 15, 3:02 pm, Ningi <ningiEGGSANDS...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14/06/2012 05:32, Dan O wrote:
>
> > On Jun 13, 4:45 am, Sir Ridesalot<i_am_cycle_pat...@yahoo.ca>  wrote:
> >> Saw a guy after a 100 km (60 miles) ride develop such severe cramps he
> >> was taken by ambulance  to emergency department. Followup showed he
> >> was given four IV pouches to replenish electrolytes. This ven though
> >> he gad drank five bottles of water and one bottle of G\torade during
> >> the ride.
>
> He was given an IV to replenish water.

Was it you?

>  The electrolytes make that easier.
>
> >> Good thing it happened after the ride. It's a bit scary to think about
> >> what could have happened had he had this happen at another time if he
> >> was riding alone.
>
> >> So, what is a good way to keep your electrolytes up on a long ride in
> >> hot humid weather? Temperature day of the ride was around 40 C
> >> counting the humidex index.
>
> Don't drink too much.

An inexperienced individual is unable to make that judgement.
Indictrination makes the perception of thirst different from reality
and many ignore the symptoms of thirst until they are no longer
capable of masticating dry food. Those that understand that hydration
is important, frequently go too far the other way, because they go by
a fornula based on time and environment rather than using the response
of their own body.

>
> >> Is drinking water with just sodium and potassium in it enough?
> >> What other electrolytes does one need to replenish?
>
> > You can't really replenish during the exertion.  The purpose of
> > electrolytes added to water is to reduce the tendency of water
> > consuption to leech and flush electrolytes from the body.
>
> This.  When you sweat you will lose more water than salts so the
> concentration in your body is going up, not down.  Electrolytes in

and one should wipe off accumulated salts on the skin from time to
time to keep water loss through the skin under control.

> drinks are primarily for getting water absorbed at the fastest rate, not
> replenishing salts in the body, which isn't needed in the short term.

Magnesium chloride is probably the most useful salt in the short term,
especially those suffering with cardiac difficulties. Them will also
usually benefit from clean water.

[thirty-six]

On Jun 14, 5:23 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> possible shortcircuiting the Krebs cycle with no adequate warmup fostering a total body ease into anerobic cycles.
>
> prob if nyou search, find there's a pop segment suffering from the problem ?

DR. BATMANGHELIDJ M.D. can show you the way.

"Dr. F. Batmaghelidj wrote his first self-help book “Your Body’s Many
Cries for Water” in 1992, in which he stated that a dry mouth is not a
reliable indicator of dehydration. The body signals its water shortage
by producing pain. Dehydration actually produces pain and many
degenerative diseases, including asthma, arthritis, hypertension,
angina, adult-onset diabetes, lupus and multiple sclerosis. Dr. B’s
message to the world is, “You are not sick, you are thirsty. Don’t
treat thirst with medication.” "

Pain is due to acidosis. Acid is moved by water. Deep breathing
reduces circulatory acid. Salt assists directly in alkalising and
also provides the energy behind the sodium-potassium pump, which is
the transport mechanism through cell walls. Without salt-water
nothing works..

[Jay Beattie]

On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:56:03 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
> On 06/13/2012 03:38 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > Op 13-6-2012 21:28, Duane schreef:

> >> On 06/13/2012 02:27 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >>> Op 13-6-2012 20:17, raamman schreef:

> >>>> On Jun 13, 7:45 am, Sir Ridesalot<i_am_cycle_pat...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >>>>> Saw a guy after a 100 km (60 miles) ride develop such severe cramps he
> >>>>> was taken by ambulance to emergency department. Followup showed he
> >>>>> was given four IV pouches to replenish electrolytes. This ven though
> >>>>> he gad drank five bottles of water and one bottle of G\torade during
> >>>>> the ride.
> >>>>>

> >>>>> Good thing it happened after the ride. It's a bit scary to think about
> >>>>> what could have happened had he had this happen at another time if he
> >>>>> was riding alone.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, what is a good way to keep your electrolytes up on a long ride in
> >>>>> hot humid weather? Temperature day of the ride was around 40 C
> >>>>> counting the humidex index.
> >>>>>

> >>>>> Is drinking water with just sodium and potassium in it enough?
> >>>>> What other electrolytes does one need to replenish?
> >>>>>

> >>>>> Thanks and cheers
> >>>>
> >>>> LOL! 100 km ride and this ? how rarely did he ride ? absolutely
> >>>> ridiculous to hear someone in such bad shape with a few hours on the
> >>>> road, regardless of the humidex- there must be another factor in there
> >>>> that is not reported.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Exactly what I thought. I never drink 5 bottles and one Gatorate in a

> >>> 100 km ride my stomach can't handle that amount.
> >>
> >> Maybe he's climbing. Maybe he's slow. Question is still valid.
> >
> > Maybe, but for sure he didn't know what he was doing. I always say don't
> > put just water in your waterbottles especially in that kind of weather.
>
> Agreed. That was one of my first responses. Second was to hydrate the
> day before as Gene said.

There is only a weak association between electrolyte intake and cramp prevention. See e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1150229/

OP's cramping rider had enough fluid and electrolytes for any two ordiniary riders (5 bottles of water and a bottle of Gatoraid in 60 miles). Something else was going on.

I was riding up Carson Pass on a Death Ride just behind some racer. This guy was riding a 39/23, which I though was undergeared, particularly after 15,000 - 16,000 feet of steep climbing. From about ten yards away, I could see his left calf spasm and cramp hard. He swerved across on-coming lane and on to the far shoulder, where he got off and hopped around in agony. It was 80/90F -- hot but not ungodly, and I'm sure the guy was dosing on Cytomax because it was being given away free at every stop. I just think he fatigued the hell out the muscle with those gears. That's why I get cramps even when I am fully hydrated.

-- Jay Beattie.

[thirty-six]

Conclusion based evidence finding. What if they had used unrefined
sea salt and clean (not chlorinated) water and permitted the subjects
to drink at will. First off more salted water would be consumed,
perhaps even enough to hydrate the subjects properly. Instead they
maintained the level of dehydration that the subjects presented with.
A hydration test where the subjects can't drink until their weight
drops below there already dehydrated state is ridiculous as there is
an immediate demand for more water as soon as the large muscles are
stressed and this increases with time as the muscle warms.

>
> OP's cramping rider had enough fluid and electrolytes for any two ordiniary riders (5 bottles of water and a bottle of Gatoraid in 60 miles).  Something else was going on.

Use of chlorinated acidic (surface) water and NaCl

>
> I was riding up Carson Pass on a Death Ride just behind some racer.  This guy was riding a 39/23, which I though was undergeared, particularly after 15,000 - 16,000 feet of steep climbing.  From about ten yards away, I could see his left calf spasm and cramp hard.  He swerved across on-coming lane and on to the far shoulder, where he got off and hopped around in agony. It was 80/90F -- hot but not ungodly, and I'm sure the guy was dosing on Cytomax because it was being given away free at every stop.  I just think he fatigued the hell out the muscle with those gears.  That's why I get cramps even when I am fully hydrated.

Cramps demonstrate you are probably not fully hydrated. You need to
hydrate and alkalise your body before stretching and massage for a big
day in the hills. Ample fats and cholesterol are also important yet
frequently overlooked.

[raamman]

On Jun 15, 12:24 am, "Tom $herman (-_-)" <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI

I find that I tend to get used to whatever the general temps are; it
is not so bad mid winter as the transition in late august to a snapish
under 20c day for me- I find I suffer the most from lowering temps in
the early autumn. I used to go out in the worst weather as a personal
challenge- now, been there done that, and older- I don t need to prove
anything to myself- but I know how to deal with low temps when I want
to go out for a ride in that.

I tend to keep my speed in hotter weather- depends a lot on how far I
intend to go- always the longer rides start at a fairly easy pace,
settle in and may finish with lo gear higher rpms or steady overgrear
grinding.

[raamman]

On Jun 14, 5:53 am, davethedave <davedfoster...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:28:33 -0700, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > You can punish/torture me with those temperatures. Yesterday 19 C,
> > partly cloudy. Did 85 km/2,5 hour after work drank 1 bottle, ate
> > nothing. Perfect. Well we lost the soccer game against Germany......
>

> My upstairs neighbour will be happy about the footy. ;) It was only 2:1
> though. It's not a complete whitewash.
>
> Yesterday. House to here.
>
> http://goo.gl/maps/947P
>
> 1.5hr. 30C. 1.5 litres of water. Crappy gravel roads/tracks. Nice beach.
> Gorgeous mountain views. relatively few people.
> --
> davethedave

pretty cool - I was a bit curious where the gorgeous hot weather you
refered to was- knew some turkish girls back in the day=- some damn
gorgeous ones. yup, you be lucky ducky.

[Dan O]

Sounds plausible. I don't know. I drink plain water (except when I
drink beer or coffee or tea) - mountain spring source preferred.

I do know that I went googling when I saw an ostenstibly authoritative
poster on the wellness bulletin board that said you should drink
sports drinks - not just water - during exertion, in order to
replenish electrolytes. Sounded fishy to me.

[Dan O]

Experience will show when you are beginning to slosh - also when your
tissues are out of goodies. But yes - be careful!

>
>
> > >> Is drinking water with just sodium and potassium in it enough?
> > >> What other electrolytes does one need to replenish?
>
> > > You can't really replenish during the exertion. The purpose of
> > > electrolytes added to water is to reduce the tendency of water
> > > consuption to leech and flush electrolytes from the body.
>
> > This. When you sweat you will lose more water than salts so the
> > concentration in your body is going up, not down. Electrolytes in
>
> and one should wipe off accumulated salts on the skin from time to
> time to keep water loss through the skin under control.
>
> > drinks are primarily for getting water absorbed at the fastest rate, not
> > replenishing salts in the body, which isn't needed in the short term.
>
> Magnesium chloride is probably the most useful salt in the short term,
> especially those suffering with cardiac difficulties. Them will also
> usually benefit from clean water.

You're absolutely right about real food.

[datakoll]

Misinformation here is disturbing. 'Experienced' 'long' distance riders should read online abt salt and bonking and stretching.

Carmichael has an email newsletter.

The information is set forth, people are not inquisitive nor seek to broaden their misconceptions.


hmmmmm a search into how spell this 'radoneur' ?

'like' through hiker....I thru hiked training with a 30-35 pound pack at 7 miles 2 days ago then had the misfortune of sitting in muh van all day and know what ? all the muscles I know I don't have squeeked for sevearl hours.

[Dan O]

On Jun 15, 7:33 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Misinformation here is disturbing. 'Experienced' 'long' distance riders should read online abt salt and bonking and stretching.
>
> Carmichael has an email newsletter.
>
> The information is set forth, people are not inquisitive nor seek to broaden their misconceptions.
>
> hmmmmm a search into how spell this 'radoneur' ?
>

http://www.vittoria.com/product/city-trekking/

[raamman]

I ve done lots of double centuries and a few further; for me I found
an entirely liquid diet worked best. chewing food always problematic
as it interfered with breathing, risk of inhaling a bit, and cramping/
indigestion- not to mention it altered my fluid absorbstion rate
(wrecked it). with a liquid diet I am able to have a good control over
my body fluid level and sugar/energy- whatever I need gets in me
faster, I usually have water in a camelbak and a gatorade mix in my
bottles to sip. For my very long rides in hot weather I stop at a
convience store along the way to replentish my supply- i might get a
cold coke or pepsi for a little kick ( actually can be a big kick for
30 min to an hour)- great for getting to the half way home point. I
am not really bothered by hunger on the road; the meal fantasies can
take over for awhile and make miles disappear. i just found this
method works best for me up to 14-16 hours virtually non-stop liquid
only.

[thirty-six]

The human body retains salts only when already dehydrated. To
maintain full hydration, one also should consume salts. Studies are
frequently made on already dehydrated subjects. Get fully hydrated
with salts and stay that way.

> I drink plain water (except when I
> drink beer or coffee or tea) - mountain spring source preferred.
>

Careful with quantity as they will all dehydrate if taken excessively.

> I do know that I went googling when I saw an ostenstibly authoritative
> poster on the wellness bulletin board that said you should drink
> sports drinks - not just water - during exertion, in order to
> replenish electrolytes.  Sounded fishy to me.

1/4 tsp unrefined sea salt per pint of water to maintain hydration.
Some lemon juice/citric acid to taste and a little sugar all help to
get it down (alternatively a fruit squash), which is particularly
important if starting a hard training session or at the beginning of a
race or track session.

[Sir Ridesalot]

It's my understanding that the human body requires potassium in order
to use the sodium. If that is correct, what ratio of potassium to
sodium does one need? Or does it vary with the user?

And no, it wasn't m who suffered those cramps. I just want t o
increase my knowledge so that it doesn't happen to me. I often ride
100 kilometers or slightly over that distance. I'd like to get it up
to 160 kilometers (100 miles) but I usually ride that kind of distance
alone.

Cheers

[AMuzi]

A search shows a large number of pill pushers touting
various manganese, calcium, potassium, chloride, sodium etc
supplements but I did find this:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1966150-overview

For accuracy, post-mortem vitreous fluid analysis!

[Lou Holtman]

Cramps don't come out of the blue. When you feel them coming back off. Most cramps come from pushing to hard, not the lack of electrolytes. No need to overcomplicate it.

Lou

[thirty-six]

It is acknowledged that potassium is the antagonist to sodium wrt
muscle function. I've not memorised the science behind it but it
seems apparent from my own experience that the body's demands for
sodium are higher and this is probably because sodium is utilised in
temperature control the transport of waste out of the body yet
potassium may be mostly preserved.

> If that is correct, what ratio of potassium to
> sodium does one need? Or does it vary with the user?

If you stick to God's food, not industrial products, your tastebuds
will steer you in the right direction. Use unrefined sea salt in
clean (no chlorine) alkaline water at about 1/4tsp / pint. If one has
too much salt in the morning one has watery stools, too little and
urine is pale. Eat greens and fruit (if in season) each day until
satisfied then don't return to it that day. There's no magic niumber,
your taste will tell you when you have satisfied that requirement as
long as you don't confuse it with products.

>
> And no, it wasn't m who suffered those cramps. I just want t o
> increase my knowledge so that it doesn't happen to me. I often ride
> 100 kilometers or slightly over that distance. I'd like to get it up
> to 160 kilometers (100 miles) but I usually ride that kind of distance
> alone.
>

Sodium is the transport system which is why it is always thought of
first. If you think that 100 miles might challenge you then perhaps
you are not riding easy enough at 60 miles. This probably has more to
do with technique than it is to do with nutrition but here goes. Your
food to survive is fat, eat it. Fat will keep you riding in the rain
and cold after the carbs have burnt out and the sun drops so start
with a breakfast containig fat after fully hydrating yourself. Pork-
belly, spinach (for magnesium and alkilation) and scrambled eggs in
butter (2oz) follow that with oatmeal with cream or brose and a cup of
fruit juice. Carry enough water for the ride if you can't top up and
salt it 1/4tsp per pint. Leave some water clean and carry the salt
anyway. carry a piece of fruit, rich fruitcake and a chocolate bar.
I hope that you can complete this in 7 hours. If you are racking up
the miles at a pace of 22mph or better (or there has been some
struggling) you should probably take a break halfway.

[Frank Krygowski]

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>
>
> And no, it wasn't m who suffered those cramps. I just want t o
> increase my knowledge so that it doesn't happen to me. I often ride
> 100 kilometers or slightly over that distance. I'd like to get it up
> to 160 kilometers (100 miles) but I usually ride that kind of distance
> alone.

I occasionally have a little trouble with cramps, most often after the
ride. So, for what it's worth, two common folk remedies are:

1) drinking pickle juice

2) eating some mustard.

I can vouch for #2. Last year I recall barely fighting off cramps after
a longish, hard ride. I could tell the wrong motion might trigger a
cramp at any time. A few spoonfuls of mustard tasted delicious to me,
and solved the problem completely.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Dan O]

On Jun 16, 8:55 pm, Frank Krygowski <frkrygowREM...@gEEmail.com>
wrote:

> Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>
> > And no, it wasn't m who suffered those cramps. I just want t o
> > increase my knowledge so that it doesn't happen to me. I often ride
> > 100 kilometers or slightly over that distance. I'd like to get it up
> > to 160 kilometers (100 miles) but I usually ride that kind of distance
> > alone.
>
> I occasionally have a little trouble with cramps, most often after the
> ride. So, for what it's worth, two common folk remedies are:
>
> 1) drinking pickle juice
>

And I thought *I* was weird :-)

> 2) eating some mustard.
>

One of my favorite "mustard" references:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/6b2b135bb1041df3

> I can vouch for #2. Last year I recall barely fighting off cramps after
> a longish, hard ride. I could tell the wrong motion might trigger a
> cramp at any time. A few spoonfuls of mustard tasted delicious to me,
> and solved the problem completely.
>

It's all about balance. Eat when hungry, drink when thirsty, fuck
when horny. etc.

[Dan O]

It's my understanding that sodium works without potassium and vice
versa, but they have complementary, offsetting, balancing functions,
and the *body* doesn't work right without the balance.

> And no, it wasn't m who suffered those cramps. I just want t o
> increase my knowledge so that it doesn't happen to me. I often ride
> 100 kilometers or slightly over that distance. I'd like to get it up
> to 160 kilometers (100 miles) but I usually ride that kind of distance
> alone.
>

Incorporate as many different things in your regular diet as you can
get in your mouth. If you're healthy, you will be able to push the
envelope, at which point you will feel the state of balance much more
lucidly. I make a habit of pushing beyond what feels like limits, and
haven't found the absolute one yet ("They call me The Searcher... ")

[Dan O]

... er, "The Seeker".

[thirty-six]

On Jun 17, 4:55 am, Frank Krygowski <frkrygowREM...@gEEmail.com>
wrote:

Mustard is highly alkaline IIRC. I use 2 tsp of Dijon mustard in my
scrambled eggs, I can only withstand this with the high amount of
butter I use. You will likely also benefit from using sea salt and/or
bicarbonate of soda on your drink on the bike. .

[James]

On 17/06/12 19:45, thirty-six wrote:
> On Jun 17, 4:55 am, Frank Krygowski<frkrygowREM...@gEEmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>
>>> And no, it wasn't m who suffered those cramps. I just want t o
>>> increase my knowledge so that it doesn't happen to me. I often ride
>>> 100 kilometers or slightly over that distance. I'd like to get it up
>>> to 160 kilometers (100 miles) but I usually ride that kind of distance
>>> alone.
>>
>> I occasionally have a little trouble with cramps, most often after the
>> ride. So, for what it's worth, two common folk remedies are:
>>
>> 1) drinking pickle juice
>>
>> 2) eating some mustard.
>>
>> I can vouch for #2. Last year I recall barely fighting off cramps after
>> a longish, hard ride. I could tell the wrong motion might trigger a
>> cramp at any time. A few spoonfuls of mustard tasted delicious to me,
>> and solved the problem completely.
>

> Mustard is highly alkaline IIRC. I use 2 tsp of Dijon mustard in my
> scrambled eggs, I can only withstand this with the high amount of
> butter I use. You will likely also benefit from using sea salt and/or
> bicarbonate of soda on your drink on the bike. .

Got data?

Considering ground mustard seed is commonly mixed with vinegar or lemon
juice, the combined result is more likely acidic.

It contains plenty of salt.

--
JS.

[thirty-six]

English mustard flour (Colemans) is usually mixed with hot water and
used with fatty meats. Vinegar may or may not be used, usually not
with pork.

>
> It contains plenty of salt.

If that's the way you like it. It's a product, there are variations,
but straight mustayd is alkaline, I'm convinced..

[Frank Krygowski]

thirty-six wrote:
> On Jun 17, 4:55 am, Frank Krygowski<frkrygowREM...@gEEmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>>
>>> And no, it wasn't m who suffered those cramps. I just want t o
>>> increase my knowledge so that it doesn't happen to me. I often ride
>>> 100 kilometers or slightly over that distance. I'd like to get it up
>>> to 160 kilometers (100 miles) but I usually ride that kind of distance
>>> alone.
>>
>> I occasionally have a little trouble with cramps, most often after the
>> ride. So, for what it's worth, two common folk remedies are:
>>
>> 1) drinking pickle juice
>>
>> 2) eating some mustard.
>>
>> I can vouch for #2. Last year I recall barely fighting off cramps after
>> a longish, hard ride. I could tell the wrong motion might trigger a
>> cramp at any time. A few spoonfuls of mustard tasted delicious to me,
>> and solved the problem completely.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Mustard is highly alkaline IIRC. I use 2 tsp of Dijon mustard in my

> scrambled eggs...

Heh. Last mustard we bought was purchased in Dijon, France. We bought
two samplers of five mustard varieties each, to pass on as gifts.
Oddly, not one of them said "Dijon Mustard."

> ...I can only withstand this with the high amount of

> butter I use. You will likely also benefit from using sea salt and/or
> bicarbonate of soda on your drink on the bike.

Here's the weird thing about muscle cramps and mustard: The beneficial
effect seems to be nearly instantaneous. It definitely works within a
minute or two, which seems faster than any possible transport of
alkalines, acids or salts to the effected muscle.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

Well, at least a couple of packets of mustard would be easy to carry.

[thirty-six]

On Jun 18, 3:20 am, Frank Krygowski <frkrygowREM...@gEEmail.com>

It's possibly because it is absorbed or causes a reaction
sublingually. As a body's typical blood circulation in a healthy
person takes around 90 seconds to circulate completely then that would
tie in with sublingual absorbtion. Mustard helps to open blood
vessels, it's a warming spice. You may find similar benefit with
cayenne, ginger or turmeric. It's very interesting that you find this
so effective, how widespread is the use of mustard?

[Frank Krygowski]

thirty-six wrote:
> Mustard helps to open blood
> vessels, it's a warming spice. You may find similar benefit with
> cayenne, ginger or turmeric. It's very interesting that you find this
> so effective, how widespread is the use of mustard?

I've got no data on how widespread the use may be. Googling something
like "mustard cramp" gets plenty of hits and much favorable discussion,
but I'm the only guy I know with mustard packets in my handlebar bag.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[thirty-six]

On Jun 18, 5:28 pm, Frank Krygowski <frkrygowREM...@gEEmail.com>
wrote:

I spotted magnesium mentioned a bit and this is in abundance in
turmeric IIRC. Probably my best pre-rid meal was a curry using celery
seed and much creamed coconut. The science behind why such foods have
worked is now catching up with odl wives tales.

[datakoll]

example of different metabolismsm amung humans....

coke and pepsi are for many a total down, wipeout energy.....disaster.

I have one....3 Musketeers (841) or Mars Bars.....yumyum soathes the tummy....press on .....no slacking of muscles that I feel.

Other people exercising say a 3M bar is a total down, energy wipeout....

[datakoll]

109, 13% humidity on the banks of the ol lower Colorado, 10% on the mesa

.cranberry/raspberry juice from OS. No sweat. maybe 1.5 hrs to loosen up

for cleaning the cab

[datakoll]

2nd day. Today, wind at 15-20 mph, 110F. Tough. Not sweating is pleasant.
good for paintwork. Bought a 3/16's sheet, 2x2" class 4 insert, 2 support angles from bumper to under plate, and 2 angles extension from plate (which captures generator when in use) supporting bike tires.

On the road, wheels and seat/post ride inside.

ahhhh now assemble on site, ride when time allows not when assembly time allows.

A life imprivement.

Steel comes from Metal Superstores. Nice people. Commercial grade doing walk in business for the DIY. I'll get a link.

[datakoll]

WRONG NAME

http://www.metalsupermarkets.com/

they're ethnic. Smile. Ima Egyptian/Turk/Lebanese and we get along.

[raamman]

On Jun 19, 1:54 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> example of different metabolismsm amung humans....
>
> coke and pepsi are for many a total down, wipeout energy.....disaster.
>

I understand that; theres a lot of sugar in those causing and insulin
response- I usually only take a pepsi from the store ( 7 11 big gulp
lots of ice ) when I start to feel a bit run down; it s cold liquid,
not as carbonated as coke ( I de fizz it as much as I can too) , and
the sugar is a different source than coke ( I normally don t drink
soft drinks, but and prefer coke over pepsi- but I find I get a better
kick on the road from pepsi). I don t normally need it unless I am
coming back from one of my long rides on a hot day- I just found it
helped me a fair bit. I don t know what my caloric rate was- but I
think I probabally used up a lot of my blood sugar and was running a
deficit in processing glycogen eg getting run down- so I think it was
a rehydration and blood sugar increase that made it work for me.

> I have one....3 Musketeers (841) or Mars Bars.....yumyum soathes the tummy....press on .....no slacking of muscles that I feel.

both have a lot of carbohydrates, and of course I get tempted
sometimes- the thought of trying to eat a messy candy bar in such heat
has always been a barrier for me.

>
> Other people exercising say a 3M bar is a total down, energy wipeout....

lately I ve been taking some fig newtons along- with mixed results- I
am not riding as fast as I used to 10-15 years ago- 2 or 3 bars when
stopped kinda help, but I ve had some stomach cramping and gas
afterwards- so try to do without until I feel like I might be starting
to bonk.

[thirty-six]

Stomach cramping - drink a quart of clean (not chlorinated,
flouridated or loaded with heavy metals or pesticides) water with a
teaspoon of sea salt. Stop drinking cow's milk..

[datakoll]

try Ocean Spray-thermos-cranberry/raspberry diluted a bit with spring water plus Red Bull.

working full time at 110.

NOAA sez no breeze next 2 days.

[thirty-six]

I had a litre of cranberry and rasberry drink (McEnnedey, from Lidl)
last night with a bit of Trapani sea salt. Delicious.

[AMuzi]

Our corner bodega sells Mexican CocaCola which is completely
different, made with cane sugar. You might try that. My
(young) employees prefer it to the usual crap.

[thirty-six]

I had Pepsi-Raw a few times (UK) and it was a real eye-opener, lovely
with Bulleit whisky (Bourbon?) I've had the basic Coke and Pepsi
since and can't say I'll ever choose them again. I'd drink the water
out the road gutter in preference.

[raamman]

>   Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

not everyone sells mexican coke here- I was in laredo a few times last
year and don t think I saw mexican coke then either

[James]

On 21/06/12 07:28, raamman wrote:
> On Jun 20, 5:10 pm, AMuzi<a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>> Our corner bodega sells Mexican CocaCola which is completely
>> different, made with cane sugar. You might try that. My
>> (young) employees prefer it to the usual crap.
>>
>

> not everyone sells mexican coke here- I was in laredo a few times last
> year and don t think I saw mexican coke then either

I thought Mexican coke was an entirely different substance from Mexican
CocaCola.

--
JS.

[datakoll]

> Our corner bodega sells Mexican CocaCola which is completely
> different, made with cane sugar. You might try that. My
> (young) employees prefer it to the usual crap.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Mex coke cawses self flagelation ?

I have one: cold Cambells French (ASO) Onion soup with slices of green pepper and roma tomato- for an after ride aftertief.

I have some Mex sardines....I'll sendum up.

[AMuzi]

Try a Mexican-owned bodega or grocery. It's pretty well
distributed but especially at Christmas.

[datakoll]

felice navidad
felice navidad
felice navidad
felice navidad
felice navidad

felice navidad

outstanding suggestion !

[Joy Beeson]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:34:49 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

> At about 80 miles into a wet cold windy century, my riding
> partner and I hit the wall and ate field corn, which got us
> going again within minutes. Tasted as good as anything, at
> that low-energy moment.

My spouse's diabetic diet claims that corn is particularly glycemic.
Fresh field corn was probably as good as a bottle of corn syrup, and a
lot easier to get down.

(Thank goodness that when I glazed out, I was given a banana and shown
to a sofa. I believe that the person who got the whole bottle of
syrup had been taken to a doctor.)

(Which reminds me of the ambulance rider who told me that instead of
expensive and inconveniently-packaged glucose paste, he feeds crashed
diabetics packets of honey from McDonald's.)

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

[thirty-six]

On Jun 21, 5:37 am, Joy Beeson <jbee...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:34:49 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > At about 80 miles into a wet cold windy century, my riding
> > partner and I hit the wall and ate field corn, which got us
> > going again within minutes. Tasted as good as anything, at
> > that low-energy moment.
>
> My spouse's diabetic diet claims that corn is particularly glycemic.
> Fresh field corn was probably as good as a bottle of corn syrup, and a
> lot easier to get down.
>
> (Thank goodness that when I glazed out, I was given a banana and shown
> to a sofa.  I believe that the person who got the whole bottle of
> syrup had been taken to a doctor.)
>
> (Which reminds me of the ambulance rider who told me that instead of
> expensive and inconveniently-packaged glucose paste, he feeds crashed
> diabetics packets of honey from McDonald's.)

I've been doing some reading on the marvels of coconut oil, it
includes stabilisation of blood sugar in diagnosed diabetics.

[datakoll]

MAC'S corn syrup packets are individually cursed with fairies and trolls for max spillage, max damage.

Like carrying a live hand grenade !

[datakoll]

On Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:57:28 AM UTC-6, datakoll wrote:
> MAC'S corn syrup packets are individually cursed with fairies and trolls for max spillage, max damage.
>
> Like carrying a live hand grenade !

112F 8% humidity

[datakoll]

I'M ORGAN IZING TO TRAVEL TO

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?minlon=-124.8&maxlon=-120.57&minlat=46.2&maxlat=49.33&mapwidth=354&site=sew&zmx=1.25&zmy=1.25&map.x=239&map.y=58


eyeyyhahasheeeet

[datakoll]

ran out of cranberry/raspberry and ice....

began slowing down down th en as the temp began dropping with a low sun angle up up

the low humidity does good. Whe is said "itsa dry heat' pray it is.

how an oil trucker survived summer BC A/C ??? men of steel fersure.

spekaing of the deeeeeevil, Chalo is missing. A few words on humidity and 300 milers ?

[Dan O]

I'm still drinking just water on the road, but my wife has been buying
these "Vitamin Water" things, and I grabbed one out of the ffridge
after a couple of hot hours riding home. Polished it off and felt
*so* refreshed in minutes. Looking at the label, it has 28 grams of
sugar (this is "water"?), berry extracts, b vitamins and
electrolytes. (Ice cold out of the fridge helps, too.)

[thirty-six]

Midsummers has passed and it snowed for at least 3 seconds in
Lancashire. We love our weather. :-) had to put the heating on for
the last two days. I intend to be a better survivor, but I'm still
learning. More fat and more salt and water helps loads.

[Dan O]

Dinner tonight: Sunshine brand "Cheez-It" crackers w/ sliced cheddar
cheese (local Tillamook - world's best cheddar) w/ garlic powder -
mmmmmm....

(washed down w/ cheap merlot salvaged from the dumpster)

"I could live on Cheez-Its" -- pregnant epidemiology nurse

[datakoll]

ACK on Trask's Grave Tilllamook is mixed with cowdung

itsa 110/12% humidiy

north ina week....

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

On 6/23/2012 2:26 AM, Dan O wrote:
> Dinner tonight: Sunshine brand "Cheez-It" crackers w/ sliced cheddar
> cheese (local Tillamook - world's best cheddar) w/ garlic powder -
> mmmmmm....

> [....]

Did you fall in loaf (sic)?

<http://uptake-blogs.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/image003-1024x768.jpg>

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
Post Free or Die!

[datakoll]

know all the crazy #### goes on central Fla ?

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cubensis%20mushrooms&aq=2s&aqi=g-s10&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1138&bih=629&wrapid=tlif134050537221310&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=JH3mT-vqIObU2AWSx_nZCQ



how's the song go ?


where are you little star dowahdedowha

doeeze not stars Fred your loco deeze mosquitos


4 inches across, 1" thick

like sugar cookies fresh otta the oven

I have photos of the doahn pick sign up at the Cascades lake.

I parked and people watched took photos.

Yup.

but no mosquitos.

pass the liver.....

[datakoll]

cures nervous tension amung other probs
soups good for wild pool parties

[datakoll]

>
> I'm still drinking just water on the road, but my wife has been buying
> these "Vitamin Water" things,

add half a Power Bar and uroff ! eat PB's in small chunks/time...no reson for downing the whole bar ts curative not food per se

[Dan O]

On Jun 23, 7:42 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> know all the crazy #### goes on central Fla ?
>

> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cubensis%20mushrooms&aq=2s&aqi=...
>

"the effect on mood in particular is dependent on the subject's pre-
exposure personality traits"

<snip>

[datakoll]

THE WORD 'DEPENDENT' is inaccurte

promotes iza better descriptive word....promotes....


dependent implies one is the same after as before.This is inaccurate in alearning situation and GF if you don't.

eg a power bar lacks morality/ethics. Is this true or false ? the PB ids an avnue to a chanhge in morality and ethics. In our culture, a change in is unwelcome as TS continuously....

[Dan O]

On Jun 23, 7:55 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I'm still drinking just water on the road, but my wife has been buying
> > these "Vitamin Water" things,
>
> add half a Power Bar and uroff !

You know what really gives me a kick - strong cup of coffee and
powerbar - wham bam!

> eat PB's in small chunks/time...no reson for downing the whole bar ts curative not food per se

Somehting to that, I suppose. What I do is stick a PB in my rear
jersey pocket when heading out for home in afternoon - get out of town
and then finish the first set of climbs - over the top, sit up and
drink some water - descending riding no hands - whip out PB and peel
wrapper - it's nice and warm and soft from being in pocket - oh, man!
- (is) *food* - *so* good - only a couple hundred calories, but it
will really help me keep going - I might burn a thousand on my way
home.