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From: John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: HED Ardennes SL
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2012 19:01:05 +0700
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On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 11:27:09 +1000, James <james.e.stew...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 07/08/12 10:43, John B. wrote:
>> On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 07:52:53 +1000, James<james.e.stew...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/08/12 21:36, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 11:59:29 +1000, James<james.e.stew...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 06/08/12 11:39, John B. wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 07:18:36 -0700 (PDT), DirtRoadie
>>>>>> <DirtRoa...@aol.com>    wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you are intentionally ignoring that we are talking about
>>>>>>> inherent characteristics of the bike, not about how a rider might
>>>>>>> compensate for a bike that is more demanding.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DR
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. I was commenting on whether the remark on it being difficult to
>>>>>> shift into the big chain ring because the bike was jumping around
>>>>>> sounded like a logical remark, and it doesn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, you're riding down a hill holding the hoods, and you decide to
>>>>> select a different gear.  You take a hand off the bars and ride over
>>>>> some uneven road surface.  Isn't it possible that the bike would become
>>>>> a little unsettled and make you feel uneasy about having a hand off the
>>>>> bars?
>>>>
>>>> So I'm riding down a hill, like the clappers of hell and the bike is
>>>> bouncing and wiggling all over the road and I'm reluctant to take my
>>>> hand off the bar to shift. Sure, makes perfect sense.
>>>
>>> Why does your bike bounce and wiggle all over the road?  Is there
>>> something wrong with it?  A broken frame, fork or damaged wheel?
>>>
>> Because that is what the article said the young chap testing the bike
>> said.
>
>No he did not, you did, but let's not split hairs.  Also, you did not 
>answer my question.  Bikes don't normally start jumping all over the 
>road unless there is some external input.
>
James you are a ballerina, I say something and you go pirouetting off
to a new subject. Apparently your attention span is very short or you
just can't respond to logic.

But whatever.

 The young expert in the article said that he felt insecure in
reaching down to shift onto the big ring. Now, this group was
described as young racers so one has to assume that they have at least
a little experience on a bike. So here we have a young guy with some
experience that feels insecure going down a hill at what must have
been a fairly slow speed if he was on the small chain ring. And he
felt insecure enough that he didn't want to reach down and flick a
small lever that, assuming that he was on the drops as he should have
been going down hill, was only inches from his hand.  So, I gave him
the benefit of the doubt and described the actions of the bike as
leaping about. I thought that was much nicer then saying "the guy was 
creeping down the hill in a low gear, on a perfectly smooth highway,
and insisted on keeping a death grip on the handle bars because he was
terrified that the bike would get away from him..."

But if that is what you want we can use that description. 

>>>> But tell us, when was the last you were going down hill so fast that
>>>> the bike was unstable; in the small chain ring? And, although the bike
>>>> was already bouncing about so bad that you were scared to take a hand
>>>> off the bars.... and you decided to shift to a higher gear so you can
>>>> go even faster?
>>>
>>> John, under normal circumstances my bicycle doesn't become less stable
>>> with speed, in fact quite the opposite.  It does not jump around as the
>>> speed increases, unless perhaps there was something seriously wrong with
>>> it - but I'm guessing because I've never had a problem that resulted in
>>> such behaviour [1].  I suggest most others bicycles work in a similar
>>> fashion.
>>>
>> But in the article being discussed that is what the tester said, or
>> implied - that he/she was reluctant to take their hand off the
>> handlebars to shift.
>
>And I can account for that by assuming there was some road perturbations 
>that caused the "jumping".  You seem to be implying the comment by the 
>tester was either a lie or that the bicycle was somehow unstable by 
>itself.  And by jumping, I comprehend to be vertical movement, implying 
>a very out of round wheel, flat tyre perhaps, or road input.  If you can 
>think of another logical reason, please elucidate.
>
>>> Now if the road surface had some corrugations in it, that is a different
>>> and far more likely story, and what I was alluding to before.
>>>
>>> Which do you think it is?  Poor road surface, an invented tall story, or
>>> are you trolling for an argument?
>>>
>> Nice left hand curve.
>
>You concocted your own story.
>
>> I paraphrase what the test rider stated and I'm
>> trolling,
>
>Hardly admirable qualities to boast about.
>
>> and you ignored what the tester said and concocted your own
>> story,
>
>No, I read what the tester said and tried to comprehend why he may have 
>said what he did.  Comprehension seems to be lacking all round in this 
>discussion.
>
>> which makes you one of the pure at heart.
>
>Thank you, I'll take that as a complement.
Cheers,
John B.