Criss crossed derailleur cables?
m_h...@my-deja.com
the frame. It didn't appear to be consistent with model or componentry. The
sales guy said it was common. (?) What would be the reason for this -
pros/cons?
Thanks!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Paul Kopit
cables and to the cable stops. The housings will not rub the frame.
It works better.
If you cut the cable housings just right and the same length, they
will cross under the bar, frame the headpiece and you will not be able
to see them from the saddle. They look better.
CV2572
<pko...@flashcom.net> writes:
>With Campy Ergo, you will get a smoother line along the bars for the
>cables and to the cable stops. The housings will not rub the frame.
>It works better.
>
>If you cut the cable housings just right and the same length, they
>will cross under the bar, frame the headpiece and you will not be able
>to see them from the saddle. They look better.
>
This also helps with cable bends on small frames ....
Downside is that the cables often rub the underside of your downtube,
especially on big-tubed frames. FWIW, I run Ergo levers on my 52cm road bike,
and this is the treatment I give it, for the aforementioned reasons. A nice,
wide swath of electrical tape stops paint damage from cable slap (and rock chip
damage too!).
Robin Hubert
Mike Lackey
prevent them from rubbing against the headtube. I've seen it done on other's
bikes, and they report no problems.
Mike Lackey
CV2572
J. Rittvo
cable adjusters because you get the rear cable running on the fine-adjusting
screw type, and the front cable running on the coarse-adjusting indexed
lever type.
Joel
"Mike Lackey" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:39A199E5...@nospam.com...
CHRIS MAYHEW
>sales guy said it was common. (?) What would be the reason for this -
>pros/cons?
it keeps the housing run from the shifters cleaner. if you run them the
way they normall go, they have a very short space in which to negotiate
the 90 degree bend. if you route the to the other side it makes a nice
gentle bend all the way around.
also, you can have _much_ shorter cable housings, which greatly improves
response by reducing cable flex.
you can't do it on most road bikes, where the cable stops are mounted to
far apart and the down tube would keep the cables from making a clean
cross.
no cons, that i know of or can think of.
it can also be the sign of a mechanic who enjoys details and little
edges. sorta like having the rim and tire label readable from the right...
--
####Team#### "And i try to draw the line, but it ends up running down
.. __o # the middle of me, most of the time..."
.. -\<, # -Ani Difranco
..(_)/(_) #
Sheldon Brown
>
> I noticed a few bikes in the LBS with criss crossed derailleur cables under
> the frame. It didn't appear to be consistent with model or componentry. The
> pros/cons?
Others have explained the reasoning for this, but I'll add that this is
not the way bikes generally come from the factory. When you see a bike
with criss-crossed cables, it means that the mechanic who assembled it
cared enough to take the extra trouble to re-do the cabling.
This, like attention to label orientation, is often a sign of
craftsmanship and pride.
Sheldon "I Do It, When The Down Tubes Aren't Too Thick" Brown
+------------------------------------------------+
| Nobody who has anything to do with bicycles |
| has _all_ of their marbles, and some of us |
| are certifiable! |
| --Sheldon Brown |
+------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772, 617-244-1040 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
Qui si parla Campagnolo
the frame. It didn't appear to be consistent with model or componentry. The
sales guy said it was common. (?) What would be the reason for this -
pros/cons? >>
Doesn't really improve shifting over a properly installed inner wire and
housing. Keeps the housing from rubbing the frameset at the headtube-
Peter Chisholm
"Vecchio's" Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl ST.
Boulder, CO
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
mhi...@wsu.edu
my first visit to this shop and I am considering purchasing a bike
from them, it's good to know that this practice is a good sign!
I thought the cables slapping against the frame would be at the very
least, annoying and perhaps damaging to the paint but it appears there's
easy workarounds for that. The particular bike I'm looking at does
indeed have crossed cables. My only concern is that I'll probably want
to swap out the stem for a more dialed in fit (I've had to do that on
every bike I've owned!) so redoing the cables is probably going to be
necessary.
Thanks again!
micki
Gene Floyd
> to swap out the stem for a more dialed in fit (I've had to do that on
> every bike I've owned!) so redoing the cables is probably going to be
> necessary.
I doubt that. You can usually swap out a stem while leaving all cables
attached to their respective shifters or brake handles.
mhi...@wsu.edu
had more rise. I'm not sure (?) if there would be enough slack in this
type of setup to allow that very easily.
In article <39A2B66A...@zylay.com>,
Gene Floyd
Jeffrey L. Bell
>... I'll add that this is
>not the way bikes generally come from the factory. When you see a bike
>with criss-crossed cables, it means that the mechanic who assembled it
>cared enough to take the extra trouble to re-do the cabling.
>
>This, like attention to label orientation, is often a sign of
>craftsmanship and pride.
I would say that it's even more significant than label orientation.
The hub label orientation is a non-functional detail which might
impress those who know the code, while the cable routing gives better
shifting even if the rider doesn't know why.
(I assume that you are talking about the lables on hubs and on rims.)
(If it's some other label orientation, please describe it.)
-Jeff "preterpluparenthetical" Bell
jeffslotkin
would give better shifting? I'm thinking it purportedly has something
to do with the tightness of the bends, but I'm also thinking that's
baloney.
--
Jeff Slotkin
The Local Spoke
TheLoc...@bigfoot.com
"Jeffrey L. Bell" <jlb...@agitato.eecs.umich.edu> wrote in message
news:8o18t9$2vfu$1...@news.eecs.umich.edu...
Paul Kopit
when the cables are crossed with Ergo shifters. The bend is less
sharp and the angle to the opposite cable stop is smoother. This is
particularly true on bicycles with fat tubes. The derailleur housings
stay against the bar and are not pulling at an angle to the bar tape.
The cable housings do not touch the bicycle. Small rubber "O" rings
prevent the cables from scratching the frame on the downtube when the
cables cross back over one another.
I don't see the downside.
On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:15:21 GMT, "jeffslotkin" <jeffs...@home.com>
wrote:
dvt
jeffslotkin <jeffs...@home.com> wrote in message
news:d2pp5.4232$Z4.1...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
> Head tube rub aside, can someone explain to me why crossed housing
> would give better shifting?
>
www.harriscyclery.com. It's in there.
Dave
Sheldon Brown
>
> Head tube rub aside, can someone explain to me why crossed housing
> to do with the tightness of the bends,
That's correct.
> but I'm also thinking that's baloney.
Nope. It's well known that sharp or excessive bends in cable housing
increase friction, and increased cable friction degrades shifting. See:
http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html
Sheldon "Friction's Foe" Brown
+--------------------------------------------+
| In order to understand recursion, |
| first, you have to understand recursion. |
+--------------------------------------------+
Bruce Gilbert
tubing housings for the cables. It will allow them the freedom of not
touching each other on the cross.
Sheldon Brown <Capt...@sheldonbrown.com> wrote in message
news:39A6FD23...@sheldonbrown.com...
> jeffslotkin wrote:
> >
> > Head tube rub aside, can someone explain to me why crossed housing
> > would give better shifting? I'm thinking it purportedly has something
> > to do with the tightness of the bends,
>
> That's correct.
>
> > but I'm also thinking that's baloney.
>
> Nope. It's well known that sharp or excessive bends in cable housing
> increase friction, and increased cable friction degrades shifting. See:
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html
>
> Sheldon "Friction's Foe" Brown
> +--------------------------------------------+
> | In order to understand recursion, |
> | first, you have to understand recursion. |
> +--------------------------------------------+
Brian Plouffe
and wear a groove in it.
"Bruce Gilbert" <bgil...@urjet.net> wrote in message
news:6iKE5.90567$sB2.1...@news-east.usenetserver.com...
> We have been doing it for a while. The thing to do is to get some Teflon
> tubing housings for the cables. It will allow them the freedom of not
> touching each other on the cross.
>
>
> Sheldon Brown <Capt...@sheldonbrown.com> wrote in message
> news:39A6FD23...@sheldonbrown.com...
> > jeffslotkin wrote:
> > >
> > > Head tube rub aside, can someone explain to me why crossed housing
> > > would give better shifting? I'm thinking it purportedly has something
> > > to do with the tightness of the bends,
> >
> > That's correct.
> >
> > > but I'm also thinking that's baloney.
> >
> > Nope. It's well known that sharp or excessive bends in cable housing
> > increase friction, and increased cable friction degrades shifting. See:
> >
> > http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html
> >
> > Sheldon "Friction's Foe" Brown
> > +--------------------------------------------+
> > | In order to understand recursion, |
> > | first, you have to understand recursion. |
> > +--------------------------------------------+
Robert L. Frazier
I've always been puzzled by the move to put brake cables under the
handlebar tape. One seems to get a much better curve of the cable when
they come out of the top. (I've got one bike set up that way.) Not
only that, but they are much easier to replace etc. Is it aesthetics?
Best wishes,
Bob
--
Robert L. Frazier email: robert....@chch.ox.ac.uk
Christ Church www: kant1.chch.ox.ac.uk
Oxford OX1 1DP, UK (PGP Public Key is at this site)
Treasurer, The British Society for Ethical Theory
jeffslotkin
aero levers so the cables can exit there. You get (almost) all the
wonderful serviceability and function of the oldies with the comfort
of newer, larger levers. No gum hoods, though.
--
Jeff Slotkin
TheLoc...@bigfoot.com
"Robert L. Frazier" <rfra...@kant1.chch.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:slrn8u6t4l.1...@kant1.chch.ox.ac.uk...
Mark Hickey
>I've always been puzzled by the move to put brake cables under the
>handlebar tape. One seems to get a much better curve of the cable when
>they come out of the top. (I've got one bike set up that way.) Not
>only that, but they are much easier to replace etc. Is it aesthetics?
Pretty much, yes. There IS the advantage of the cables being largely
protected from the elements inside the hood though. Still, you have
to admit that a bike just LOOKS cleaner without cables flying around
up front (that wasn't meant as a jibe at Shimano's shift cable
routing, BTW).
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.cynetfl.com/habanero/
Home of the $695 ti frame
Qui si parla Campagnolo
handlebar tape. >>
This, along with threadless headsets and package wheels, was markweting 101-
'Aero' brake cables were not and just made it more diffucult to change inner
wires or housing.
Sheldon Brown
>
> << I've always been puzzled by the move to put brake cables under the
> handlebar tape. >>
>
> This, along with threadless headsets and package wheels, was markweting 101-
> 'Aero' brake cables were not and just made it more diffucult to change inner
> wires or housing.
I can't agree. In my opinion, this was one of the major advances in
bicycle design. I don't claim that the aero aspect is a big deal, but
the improvement in braking is considerable.
"Aero" brake levers make a considerable reduction in cable friction,
since the housings are protected against damage. Back when exposed
housings were the norm, a clear majority of bikes had kinks in the
housing where it exited the top of the brake lever. This doesn't happen
with modern levers. The best of them, Campagnolo and Shimano, have very
low friction. Less good levers, such as Dia Compe and Tektro don't
handle the housing termination inside the lever quite as well, so they
have a bit more friction, but still are better than the old style levers.
Another big advantage of new style levers is the relocated pivot point.
This improves the ergonomics greatly, making it possible to actually
_stop_ from the top-of-the-hoods position.
Less importanly, the taped-down cables are less likely to interfere with
access to handlebar bags, cyclecomputers, etc.
However, if you live in France, exposed cables are better. You can ride
down to the boulangerie for a couple of baguettes, then ride home with
the baguettes resting crosswise on your bars, held in position by the
brake cables.
Sheldon "Since I Moved Back From France, I Prefer The Modern Type" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually |
| on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; |
| no religious basis is necessary. |
| Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be |
| restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward |
| after death. --Albert Einstein |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Sheldon Brown
| A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually |*
Qui si parla Campagnolo
bicycle design. I don't claim that the aero aspect is a big deal, but
the improvement in braking is considerable. >>
But the improved braking was due to calipers and levers, NOT because they were
routed under the bar tape. I have installed DP calipers with banana cutter
levers and they work GREAT!!
<< "Aero" brake levers make a considerable reduction in cable friction,
since the housings are protected against damage >>
<< Back when exposed
housings were the norm, a clear majority of bikes had kinks in the
housing where it exited the top of the brake lever >>
Then replace the housing, easy, since they were exposed.
<< Another big advantage of new style levers is the relocated pivot point.
This improves the ergonomics greatly, making it possible to actually
_stop_ from the top-of-the-hoods position. >>
Again, I think because of the much increased mechanical strength of DP
calipers, Not just because they were routed under the bar tape-
Sheldon Brown
> << I can't agree. In my opinion, this was one of the major advances in
> bicycle design. I don't claim that the aero aspect is a big deal, but
> the improvement in braking is considerable. >>
Peter Chisholm demurred:
> But the improved braking was due to calipers and levers, NOT because they were
> routed under the bar tape. I have installed DP calipers with banana cutter
> levers and they work GREAT!!
I've replaced scads of old-style levers with "aero" ones, using the
original calipers, and this always makes a very considerable improvement.
> << "Aero" brake levers make a considerable reduction in cable friction,
> since the housings are protected against damage >>
> << Back when exposed
> housings were the norm, a clear majority of bikes had kinks in the
> housing where it exited the top of the brake lever >>
>
> Then replace the housing, easy, since they were exposed.
Not nearly as easy as _not_ having to replace the cables and housings,
since this form of damage never occurs with modern brake levers.
> << Another big advantage of new style levers is the relocated pivot point.
> This improves the ergonomics greatly, making it possible to actually
> _stop_ from the top-of-the-hoods position. >>
>
> Again, I think because of the much increased mechanical strength of DP
> calipers, Not just because they were routed under the bar tape-
You're being a bit obtuse, here, Peter. It is not because the cable is
under the bar tape; it is because the pivot is farther forward, so the
fingers get better leverage when reaching down from above the hoods.
Sheldon "Modolo 'Aero' Levers Sucked Big Time, But Campagnolo And
Shimano Are Great" Brown
+--------------------------------------------+
| Life is what happens to you, |
| while you're busy making other plans. |
| --John Lennon |
+--------------------------------------------+