Shimano Alfine 8 Internal Rear Hub - Reliability? Durability? Functionality?
Fitz
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/
Comments are appreciated!
Ryan Cousineau
Fitz <itz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone established what the differences are between the Alfine and
the Nexus Red Line 8-speed hubs yet?
My dream bike is more like Sheldon's recently-mentioned (but created by
Harris Cyclery in 2006 or so) San Jos8, which is basically a UCI-legal
cyclocross bike with a Red Line 8 hub.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
landotter
Shimano gear hubbed bikes are excellent. However, you can get such a
bike for 1/2-2/3 the cost of that Trek model. Disc brakes for city
bikes only serve as an indicator for thieves, plus make mounting racks
and fenders a real kludge. Cheap linear pull brakes work better than
any urban rider needs-- especially with quality pads, bring the cost
of a bike down considerably, and allow for normal mounting of
accessories. Unfortunately, there's not one Soho model that fits that
description.
However, you can get something better for half the price, a Jamis
Commuter 3.0. It's not an Alfine hub, but a Nexus, which are still
very good. It's got much nicer handlebars that won't make your
shoulders ache, and even comes with fenders. Spend less, get more,
discard hype. It even comes with dual pivot brakes, which are a little
easier to modulate than the linear pull models, and plenty powerful.
http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/07_bikes/commuter3.html
landotter
endlessly about my lesser Nexus-7 hub for years, that was utterly
reliable for 30K. Never a bad shift, just replace the chain with a
cheap bmx style every 3K and adjust the barrel adjuster on the cable
every so often so the little red dots line up. That's it. It's an
appliance.
They do make removing a rear wheel tricker, so practice fixing a flat
with the wheel still in the triangle at home. Open up just a bit of
tire, and pull out a little hernia for patching. Make sure to carry a
screwdriver or whatever they use now to secure the anti-rotation arm,
plus a $2 open ended wrench from Sears for your axle nuts in addition
to a patch kit/tube. Practice removing the wheel as well--see if your
shop can teach you.
Chances are though, unless you ride through some real nasties, that
most tough hybrid tires, like what usually come with Nexus/Alfine
hubs, will go long between flats.
That Jamis I linked to is a seriously nice bike for $535. I'd have one
parked in the hall if it didn't involve a drive to the nearest shop
that stocks them around here--in Chattanooga, and seeing as they're
hosting the secession conference right now--I'll keep clear.
landotter
> My dream bike is more like Sheldon's recently-mentioned (but created by
> Harris Cyclery in 2006 or so) San Jos8, which is basically a UCI-legal
> cyclocross bike with a Red Line 8 hub.
>
Yum! Me too. That's such a rational bike, my ears get all pointy just
thinking about it.
Ozark Bicycle
$1100 for a $600 bike! No wonder Trek dealers are enthusiastic!
Anyone notice on the Trek site that Trek is flogging both financing
("Ride now, pay later") and extended warranties? What's next?
Rustproofing, pinstriping and leasing? Oh, and "paint protectant"?
Geez........
Scott Gordo
How does that financing stuff work out for you shopowners?
?s
Ozark Bicycle
Ask a Trek dealer. Mike???
landotter
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Oct 3, 10:23 pm, Fitz <itzf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > See:
>
> >http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/
>
> > Comments are appreciated!
>
> $1100 for a $600 bike! No wonder Trek dealers are enthusiastic!
That's about what I think it's worth as well. Those Shimano cable
discs are just nasty. I'd rather have some $5 OEM Tektro 530 LP brakes
with Kool-Stops. You don't notice rotor rub when you're crunching
through the woods, but on the street, it's like a dripping faucet.
Plus, the Shimanos aren't nice feeling or even powerful, and are a
bitch to adjust. All to move the bike from the sales floor. Cripes.
I understand it works. I had a disced hybrid for six months last year,
a Brodie, as it was cheap (the brakes were actually a turn-off)--with
the same brakes, and they attracted tons of attention. Everybody
wanted to compliment me on the bike, and every evening I'd spend time
trying to quiet the brakes and get rid of rotor rub.
People claim, "but disc brakes work when your rims go out of true."
Well, tune your wheels properly and they'll virtually never go out of
true. It's a boogeyman. However, your discs can easily get knocked out
of whack at the Starbuck's bike rack. Again, not discounting them for
mtbs that hit the trails, but I'm sick of the things popping up on
city rides. Especially horrible ones.
>
> Anyone notice on the Trek site that Trek is flogging both financing
> ("Ride now, pay later") and extended warranties? What's next?
> Rustproofing, pinstriping and leasing? Oh, and "paint protectant"?
Simonizing! Smokers package! Ipod ready!
rcou...@gmail.com
Well, bad brakes are bad brakes, but I'm not so sure discs are a bad
idea. Maybe I say that because not even my MTB has discs. But the
perceived advantages I see are more consistent power in mucky
conditions (discs tend to stay away from mud, all but the deepest
puddles, and snow, so you don't get those peachy moments where you
squeeze the brakes and it takes a second for the rims to clear the
water). You also get to replace discs (held on by six bolts, or in the
case of the new Shimano design, no bolts at all) rather than change
rims when your wear wear out. And I don't know what real-world disc
lifespan is like, but my guess would be it at least matches rim life,
at least in crappy conditions (I come from Vancouver; mucky weather is
a way of life).
> > Anyone notice on the Trek site that Trek is flogging both financing
> > ("Ride now, pay later") and extended warranties? What's next?
> > Rustproofing, pinstriping and leasing? Oh, and "paint protectant"?
Why not finance your primary transportation method?
> Simonizing! Smokers package! Ipod ready!
http://www.aspireauctions.com/auction23/details/3782.html
http://www.ihomeaudio.com/products.asp?product_id=10186
landotter
The fact that they make mounting standard accessories on city bike
impossible make them an extremely bad idea.
>Maybe I say that because not even my MTB has discs. But the
> perceived advantages I see are more consistent power in mucky
> conditions (discs tend to stay away from mud, all but the deepest
> puddles, and snow, so you don't get those peachy moments where you
> squeeze the brakes and it takes a second for the rims to clear the
> water). You also get to replace discs (held on by six bolts, or in the
> case of the new Shimano design, no bolts at all) rather than change
> rims when your wear wear out.
Very few people actually wear out rims that don't ride either off road
or serious road mileage. Rerimming isn't expensive or hard. My city
bike can take a 610mm ERD Alex box rim that runs $18 if I ever wear
them out. I used to run cantis in winter slush--with Koolstops, I
never had a problem stopping or with excessive rim wear. Indeed,
there's such a thing as too much brake in the wet and snow.
>And I don't know what real-world disc
> lifespan is like, but my guess would be it at least matches rim life,
> at least in crappy conditions (I come from Vancouver; mucky weather is
> a way of life).
Wearing out rims on a commuter is pretty much a non-issue. And if do
do that sort of mileage, a new rim every three years is hardly a
hardship in exchange for being able to mount racks and fenders
securely.
The only reason discs are *really* being put on these sorts of bikes
is to move them off of the sales floor. Conversely, when a thief is
looking to steal something, they're good at moving bikes in those
situations as well.
A Muzi
>>> See:
>>> http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/
>>> Comments are appreciated!
> Ozark Bicycle <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>> $1100 for a $600 bike! No wonder Trek dealers are enthusiastic!
>> Anyone notice on the Trek site that Trek is flogging both financing
>> ("Ride now, pay later") and extended warranties? What's next?
>> Rustproofing, pinstriping and leasing? Oh, and "paint protectant"?
>> Geez........
Scott Gordo wrote:
> How does that financing stuff work out for you shopowners?
I have no idea about Trek after 1990 but when we did '90 days same as
cash' with a finance company (the sorts who do stereo systems,
carpeting, etc) the bulk of customers missed a payment, ended up with
huge fees. That was clearly written in the contract and in fact it's how
the finance company made money. The financing engendered ill feeling
toward us overall so we abandoned.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Jay Beattie
I would figure in the wet weather you would get pretty good rim wear.
I do down here in PDX, although with the KoolStop pads, it is not
terrible. Anyway, I use discs because the work so much better than
cantilevers/STI in the rain. My Cannondale cross bike takes fenders,
and it is not intended to take a rack, so I would have to kludge
someting together in any event. I can see how the calipers would get
in the way of a normal rack mount, though.
My issue was getting good stopping on my former commute bike (a
Cannondale T1000) with STI and cantis -- which has never been a real
good combination for me, even with good cantis (Pauls) and big hangers
and lots of fussing. The braking was never good enough for me coming
down out of the steep hills. I think I am going to rebuild that bike
with a dyno hub (to give that a whirl) and some bar ends and ordinary
brake levers. Then I can hang out with the Rivendell set and fit in,
except for the fat aluminum thing. -- Jay Beattie.
Dan Burkhart
The guys at Shimano Canada tell me that the internals of the Alfine
are identical to the Nexus, and the internals of the premium Nexus are
no different than the regular one. They just added a red stripe and a
lighter hub shell and upgraded the bearings a bit.
I have had 2 Alfine hubs that had to be sent to Shimano because of
slippage or skipping in the higher gears (5 through 8). They told me it
was because a circlip had not been properly installed.
Anyway, I've sold about a dozen Nexus 8s (besides using one myself)
and 3 Alfine and those were the only issues that cropped up with any of
them.
Bottom line, if you want disc brakes go with alfine, otherwise, Nexus
with an Alfine shifter will be the same thing.
--
Dan Burkhart
Sheldon Brown
> > Fitz <itzf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > See:
>
> > >http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/
>
> > > Comments are appreciated!
>
> > Has anyone established what the differences are between the Alfine and
> > the Nexus Red Line 8-speed hubs yet?
>
> > My dream bike is more like Sheldon's recently-mentioned (but created
> > by
> > Harris Cyclery in 2006 or so) San Jos8, which is basically a UCI-legal
> > cyclocross bike with a Red Line 8 hub.
>
> > --
> > "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> > to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
>
> The guys at Shimano Canada tell me that the internals of the Alfine
> are identical to the Nexus, and the internals of the premium Nexus are
> no different than the regular one. They just added a red stripe and a
> lighter hub shell and upgraded the bearings a bit.
That's false. The red band version has an extra row of roller
bearings surrounding the outermost gear ring.
I'm ready to believe the Alfine is the same internally as the red band
model, but haven't been inside an Alfine.
Both of my own Nexus 8s are the bottom of the line model, and I liked
them just fine when I was riding them.
> Bottom line, if you want disc brakes go with alfine, otherwise, Nexus
> with an Alfine shifter will be the same thing.
And if you don't mind waiting. Alfine still hasn't made it to the
U.S. aftermarket, though we keep bugging our distributors about it.
Sheldon "Al Feenay" Brown
+----------------------------------------+
| If you ride at night without lights |
| You are liable to be eaten by a grue. |
+----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com
Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
http://sheldonbrown.com
Alan Hoyle
> Bottom line, if you want disc brakes go with alfine, otherwise, Nexus
> with an Alfine shifter will be the same thing.
Does anyone know if an Alfine shifter has a good way of mounting on
drop bars?
-alan
--
Alan Hoyle - al...@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.
landotter
> On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:24:33, Dan Burkhart wrote:
> > Bottom line, if you want disc brakes go with alfine, otherwise, Nexus
> > with an Alfine shifter will be the same thing.
>
> Does anyone know if an Alfine shifter has a good way of mounting on
> drop bars?
>
up on the tops:
http://terrengsykkel.no/img/magasin/telex/full/alfine-rapidfire-SL-S500.jpg
Also see the old Nexus 7 shifter, my favorite shifter of all time!
http://www.bikepartsusa.com/product_images/mfg_01/5/full_53338.jpg
Chalo
>
> Very few people actually wear out rims that don't ride either off road
> or serious road mileage. Rerimming isn't expensive or hard. My city
> bike can take a 610mm ERD Alex box rim that runs $18 if I ever wear
> them out. I used to run cantis in winter slush--with Koolstops, I
> never had a problem stopping or with excessive rim wear.
That varies a lot by geographic location. When I was a bike mechanic
in Austin, I never saw significant rim wear except on the sloppiest
mountain bikes. When I lived in Seattle, it seemed that everybody who
rode regularly in the rain eventually wore out their rims. Some did
so every year.
Austin and Seattle get a very similar amount of total annual
precipitation, but in a very dissimilar number of rainy days. Seattle
gets about 200 days per year of steady drizzle that has the effect of
dispersing grit and grime all over everything. Austin gets most of
its rain as a few tremendous thunderstorms that purge the streets
clean. And Seattle's soil is granite-based, while Austin's is
limestone-based. By spending a lot more wet days coated in more (and
more abrasive) grit, Seattle riders have a much larger opportunity to
grind down their rim sidewalls.
My approach to the problem was to use drum brakes on my rain bike.
For me, the appeal of drums was in their unparalleled low maintenance
and long shoe life. But discs make for much easier wheel changes, and
don't make as many of the truck-like squeaks and squawks that my drums
do.
Chalo
landotter
> landotter wrote:
>
> > Very few people actually wear out rims that don't ride either off road
> > or serious road mileage. Rerimming isn't expensive or hard. My city
> > bike can take a 610mm ERD Alex box rim that runs $18 if I ever wear
> > them out. I used to run cantis in winter slush--with Koolstops, I
> > never had a problem stopping or with excessive rim wear.
>
> That varies a lot by geographic location. When I was a bike mechanic
> in Austin, I never saw significant rim wear except on the sloppiest
> mountain bikes. When I lived in Seattle, it seemed that everybody who
> rode regularly in the rain eventually wore out their rims. Some did
> so every year.
>
> Austin and Seattle get a very similar amount of total annual
> precipitation, but in a very dissimilar number of rainy days. Seattle
> gets about 200 days per year of steady drizzle that has the effect of
> dispersing grit and grime all over everything. Austin gets most of
> its rain as a few tremendous thunderstorms that purge the streets
> clean. And Seattle's soil is granite-based, while Austin's is
> limestone-based. By spending a lot more wet days coated in more (and
> more abrasive) grit, Seattle riders have a much larger opportunity to
> grind down their rim sidewalls.
That sounds sorta logical, but is road grit caused by soil or the
erosion of pavement? Or is it that the pavement is made with local
rock, so the grit varies?
Never had a problem in Chicago's winters when I ran Koolstops for over
three years on the same bike, know what the soil is like there? It's
limestone here, btw.
Also--what kind of pads did the offending bikes use? I'm not
discounting your theory one bit, but curious about other variables.
Andrew Martin
>
> - Show quoted text -
I've lived (and rode) in Chicago and Seattle, and I think the
noticeable thing about Seattle rims is the constant black slurry on
the brakes all winter. It's pretty gritty and makes changing your
times a complete mess. I never noticed that in Chicago which always
had colder, dryer winters. I've blown out 2 rims in Seattle. I don't
think I've come close anywhere else. I've switched to a disc rain
bike, so no more of that mess. Sorta hard to ride home on a blown
rim.
As for what the "slurry" stuff is - who knows, but Chalo seems to at
least be in the ballpark.
Michael Press
<1191646846.2...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
,
Andrew Martin <andrew.fran...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Volcanic? Lots of volcanos up there that were active over the
eons. Plenty of glass in volcanic dust.
--
Michael Press
Dorfus Dippintush
even be carbon from car exhausts.
Dorf
landotter
wrote:
That's just tire dust and asbestos from the road AFAIK, you get it
anywhere it rains. I'm still pretty convinced that, though Chalo's
theory is interesting--it's simply about rain and dirt and brand of
brake shoe.
jim beam
brake compound mixture. no asbestos used in automotive brakes for
decades now.
Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman
Make your own customized soil report at
<http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/>.
The Chicago area is covered with glacial deposits (primarily clay) from
the Wisconsin Age.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Michael Press
Dorfus Dippintush <Dorfus.D...@kippinbot.com>
wrote:
Tire powder and oil are everywhere.
The question is what makes Seattle different,
in addition to the year around rain.
--
Michael Press
Kerry Montgomery
"Michael Press" <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:rubrum-8665F1....@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
Is Seattle like Portland in its use of sand during the winter? I think
Chicago uses salt, so the stuff picked up by rims and brakes could be pretty
different.
Kerry
A Muzi
>>>>>>> Very few people actually wear out rims that don't ride either off road
>>>>>>> or serious road mileage. Rerimming isn't expensive or hard. My city
>>>>>>> bike can take a 610mm ERD Alex box rim that runs $18 if I ever wear
>>>>>>> them out. I used to run cantis in winter slush--with Koolstops, I
>>>>>>> never had a problem stopping or with excessive rim wear.
>>>>> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> That varies a lot by geographic location. When I was a bike mechanic
>>>>>> in Austin, I never saw significant rim wear except on the sloppiest
>>>>>> mountain bikes. When I lived in Seattle, it seemed that everybody who
>>>>>> rode regularly in the rain eventually wore out their rims. Some did
>>>>>> so every year.
>>>>>> Austin and Seattle get a very similar amount of total annual
>>>>>> precipitation, but in a very dissimilar number of rainy days. Seattle
>>>>>> gets about 200 days per year of steady drizzle that has the effect of
>>>>>> dispersing grit and grime all over everything. Austin gets most of
>>>>>> its rain as a few tremendous thunderstorms that purge the streets
>>>>>> clean. And Seattle's soil is granite-based, while Austin's is
>>>>>> limestone-based. By spending a lot more wet days coated in more (and
>>>>>> more abrasive) grit, Seattle riders have a much larger opportunity to
>>>>>> grind down their rim sidewalls.
>>>> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> That sounds sorta logical, but is road grit caused by soil or the
>>>>> erosion of pavement? Or is it that the pavement is made with local
>>>>> rock, so the grit varies?
>>>>> Never had a problem in Chicago's winters when I ran Koolstops for over
>>>>> three years on the same bike, know what the soil is like there? It's
>>>>> limestone here, btw.
>>>>> Also--what kind of pads did the offending bikes use? I'm not
>>>>> discounting your theory one bit, but curious about other variables.- Hide quoted text -
>>> Andrew Martin <andrew.fran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I've lived (and rode) in Chicago and Seattle, and I think the
>>>> noticeable thing about Seattle rims is the constant black slurry on
>>>> the brakes all winter. It's pretty gritty and makes changing your
>>>> times a complete mess. I never noticed that in Chicago which always
>>>> had colder, dryer winters. I've blown out 2 rims in Seattle. I don't
>>>> think I've come close anywhere else. I've switched to a disc rain
>>>> bike, so no more of that mess. Sorta hard to ride home on a blown
>>>> rim.
>>>> As for what the "slurry" stuff is - who knows, but Chalo seems to at
>>>> least be in the ballpark.
>> Michael Press wrote:
>>> Volcanic? Lots of volcanos up there that were active over the
>>> eons. Plenty of glass in volcanic dust.
> Dorfus Dippintush <Dorfus.D...@kippinbot.com> wrote:
>> Could be carbon from car tyres maybe? I mean car tyres do wear. Could
>> even be carbon from car exhausts.
Michael Press wrote:
> Tire powder and oil are everywhere.
> The question is what makes Seattle different,
> in addition to the year around rain.
I do not know. I used to visit Seattle regularly and noticed that it's
unusually dry. The frequent mini-rain events don't wash the streets
clean as our midwestern thunderstorms do. You can get 'rained on' a
couple times during a ride and still be dry. Weird.
Peter Cole
> no asbestos used in automotive brakes for
> decades now.
Absolutely not true, not even close.
carl...@comcast.net
For those interested in the subject rather than the assertions:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/trtu796.htm
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
John Henderson
> For those interested in the subject rather than the
> assertions:
>
> http://www.aa1car.com/library/trtu796.htm
From that I assume one can still buy asbestos-based friction
materials in the US.
Given the availability of substitutes, and the bans in many
other developed countries, that seems to be taking the
principles of laissez faire capitalism a little too far.
With our heavy breathing in traffic, asbestos from motor vehicle
brakes should be a concern for cyclists.
John
Ted Bennett
> Peter Cole wrote:
>
> >jim beam wrote:
> >> no asbestos used in automotive brakes for
> >> decades now.
> >Absolutely not true, not even close.
> For those interested in the subject rather than the assertions:
>
> http://www.aa1car.com/library/trtu796.htm
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
It's okay to say it, Carl. It's not impolite.
jim beam is wrong, demonstrably.
--
Ted Bennett
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Ted,
And Peter Cole is demonstrably not as right as the yes-it-is,
absolutely-no-it-isn't back and forth that does little credit to
either poster.
It's hard to say which is more irritating, the reflexive snarling or
the preference for blanket assertions without explanation.
More and more, I just delete their posts (and others) as soon it looks
like another round of no-content yes-no.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Chalo
>
> As for what the "slurry" stuff is - who knows, but Chalo seems to at
> least be in the ballpark.
The "black" in the black crap all over Seattle bike wheels is almost
certainly a mixture of pulverized rim and brake pad. But it's the
result of abrasion, not the cause.
Chalo
Chalo
>
> That's just tire dust and asbestos from the road AFAIK, you get it
> anywhere it rains. I'm still pretty convinced that, though Chalo's
> theory is interesting--it's simply about rain and dirt and brand of
> brake shoe.
I was never ablke to discern a correlation between type of brake bad
and amount of abrasion-- outside of the horrible 1990s Shimano rim-
grater pads. I've seen folks in Seattle wear out their rims with
stock pads, Kool Stops, Ritcheys, and others.
Chalo
Jay Beattie
Don't think so. See:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a716100634~db=all~jumptype=rss
Pads typically used chrysotile, which is not associated with
mesothelioma, the form of asbestos related cancer caused by low-dose
exposure. I know of no case of bystander cancern from brake pads.
Worry about radon in your basement -- or about getting hit by a car or
aspartame. -- Jay Beattie.
John Henderson
>> With our heavy breathing in traffic, asbestos from motor
>> vehicle brakes should be a concern for cyclists.
Jay Beattie replied:
> Don't think so. See:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a716100634~db=all~jumptype=rss
>
> Pads typically used chrysotile, which is not associated with
> mesothelioma, the form of asbestos related cancer caused by
> low-dose exposure. I know of no case of bystander cancern from
> brake pads. Worry about radon in your basement -- or about
> getting hit by a car or aspartame. -- Jay Beattie.
That's reassuring, thanks.
John
A Muzi
>>> For those interested in the subject rather than the
>>> assertions:
>>> http://www.aa1car.com/library/trtu796.htm
> John Henderson <jhenRemoveT...@talk21.com> wrote:
>> From that I assume one can still buy asbestos-based friction
>> materials in the US.
>> Given the availability of substitutes, and the bans in many
>> other developed countries, that seems to be taking the
>> principles of laissez faire capitalism a little too far.
>> With our heavy breathing in traffic, asbestos from motor vehicle
>> brakes should be a concern for cyclists.
Jay Beattie wrote:
> Don't think so. See:
> http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a716100634~db=all~jumptype=rss
> Pads typically used chrysotile, which is not associated with
> mesothelioma, the form of asbestos related cancer caused by low-dose
> exposure. I know of no case of bystander cancern from brake pads.
> Worry about radon in your basement -- or about getting hit by a car or
> aspartame. -- Jay Beattie.
Wow. I can manage in traffic with cars.
Are Portland cyclists often hit by aspartame?
Tom Ace
> The "black" in the black crap all over Seattle bike wheels is almost
> certainly a mixture of pulverized rim and brake pad. But it's the
> result of abrasion, not the cause.
Yup. It's very much like the crud that accumulates on climbing
rope from running across aluminum climbing gear, and which then
accumulates on your palms from handling the rope. Dirt embedded
in the rope fibers increases the abrasion.
Tom Ace
Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman
>
> Jay Beattie wrote:
>> ...
>> Worry about radon in your basement -- or about getting hit by a car or
>> aspartame.
>
> Are Portland cyclists often hit by aspartame?
Another reason why we are lucky to live in the upper Midwest - aspartame
hazard free cycling.
Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman
> landotter wrote:
>> That's just tire dust and asbestos from the road AFAIK, you get it
>> anywhere it rains. I'm still pretty convinced that, though Chalo's
>> theory is interesting--it's simply about rain and dirt and brand of
>> brake shoe.
>
> I was never ablke to discern a correlation between type of brake bad
> and amount of abrasion-- outside of the horrible 1990s Shimano rim-
The late 1990's SRAM pads (at least what came on ESP 5.0 and 7.0) were
also very bad about getting abrasive material embedded in the pad face.
Jay Beattie
> >> carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> >>> For those interested in the subject rather than the
> >>> assertions:
> >>>http://www.aa1car.com/library/trtu796.htm
> > John Henderson <jhenRemoveT...@talk21.com> wrote:
> >> From that I assume one can still buy asbestos-based friction
> >> materials in the US.
> >> Given the availability of substitutes, and the bans in many
> >> other developed countries, that seems to be taking the
> >> principles of laissez faire capitalism a little too far.
> >> With our heavy breathing in traffic, asbestos from motor vehicle
> >> brakes should be a concern for cyclists.
> Jay Beattie wrote:
> > Don't think so. See:
> > Pads typically used chrysotile, which is not associated with
> > mesothelioma, the form of asbestos related cancer caused by low-dose
> > exposure. I know of no case of bystander cancern from brake pads.
> > Worry about radon in your basement -- or about getting hit by a car or
> > aspartame. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Wow. I can manage in traffic with cars.
> Are Portland cyclists often hit by aspartame?
D'oh! O.K., Splenda -- a Ford Splenda (high mileage, low calories).
-- Jay Beattie.
Peter Cole
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:58:34 -0700, Ted Bennett
> <tedbe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> carl...@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>>
>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>> no asbestos used in automotive brakes for
>>>>> decades now.
>>>> Absolutely not true, not even close.
>>> For those interested in the subject rather than the assertions:
>>>
>>> http://www.aa1car.com/library/trtu796.htm
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Carl Fogel
>
>> It's okay to say it, Carl. It's not impolite.
>>
>> jim beam is wrong, demonstrably.
>
> Dear Ted,
>
> And Peter Cole is demonstrably not as right
Sure, Carl. Whatever.
> as the yes-it-is,
> absolutely-no-it-isn't back and forth that does little credit to
> either poster.
I always post cites, I didn't here. It's off topic and there's plenty of
info on the subject with a cursory search.
> It's hard to say which is more irritating, the reflexive snarling or
> the preference for blanket assertions without explanation.
The name-calling is my favorite part.
Ryan Cousineau
"Kerry Montgomery" <kamo...@teleport.com> wrote:
Seattle is probably like Vancouver: salt isn't a huge, persistent
concern, because it's needed so rarely.
Portland, even more so,
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
jim beam
indeed.
bluean...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Dorfus Dippintush AKA Marty Wallace don't know what the fuck he is
talking about
some should put marty where Steve Fossett is
Dorfus Dippintush <Dorfus.Dippint...@kippinbot.com>
Dorfus Dippintush <Dorfus.D...@kippinbot.com>
Australian Federal Police said Marty Wallace is calling
and the calls are coming from Marty Wallace is leaving
sex soumds on my voice mail from Collie River Valley
Marathon Relay,C/o Healthy Body Care, 26 B Steere St,
and from Western Power Corporation The Griffin Coal
Mining Companys Muja Power Station. and posting from
and from Western Power Corporation/The Griffin Coal Mining
Companys Muja Power Station. someone is calling me on
my cell and leaving phone sex voice mail from this # +61897342316
and from this # +616045507000 with the words fuck, dick, suck,
pussy, your dickhead, shit, gay, ass, fuck,you,now,ANIMAL,
SEX,balls,hair and alot of other words i don't want to post
BECAUSE I AM A CHRISTIAN.
Anyone having problems with the Marty Wallace aka
of 10,000 ames, the poster of 5000 messages, can
contact as per below.
lisa at wa police been assigned to look into this matter.
Please call or email them to initiate an investigation.
please call.
Phoe: +61 8 9220 0700 , 61 9 370 7188 , (08) 846 37430
, (08) 9301 9692 Fax: (08) 846 37460, (08) 9301 9704
Phone: 9301 9721, 011-61-8-9345 ,011-61-8-9345-8555,
+61 8 9222 1698 ,+61 8 9219 6088
email Email: computer.cr...@police.wa.gov.au ,
**********************************************************************
Marty Wallace Funny Stories email m...@geo.net.au +61897342316 -
a Janitor at the Muja Power Station and the The Collie Valley
Marathon
Committee +61897342316 or +616045507000 To The Funny Farm
Where He Will Be I just talked to Sue at the Muja Power Station and
she said the cops are looking for Marty Wallace who is a Janitor
at the Muja Power Station and the The Collie Valley Marathon
Committee +61897342316
LET'S FACE IT FOLKS..GAY Marty Wallace is AS QUEER AS A 3
DOLLAR BILL THAT'S ALL FOLKS ... NOT why is Marty Wallace
mart@geo.net.au calling people and posting 12:30am to 11:30pm
from the the Muja Power Station but you can't understand him
because he is drunk the Board Of Directors of Western power
have been told about Marty and Western power and Muja Power
Station said that LITTLE MARTY BOY DID NOT WORK FOR THEM but
From: Marty Wallace Oscar <oscar...@washington.com>; I'm not the
smartest guy in the world
Marty Wallace aka Oscar Tiel <"oscar.tiel "@hal.com> MARTY, TT, Oscar
Marty Wallace AKA Michael Jackson is a verry sicky crazy little boy
from Oscar <m...@geo.net.au Janitor at Muja Power Station Western
Power
Corporation The Griffin Coal Mining Company, The Collie Valley
Marathon
Committee phone (08) 9734 2316 Freecall 1800 622
Like most hard core criminals like Marty Wallace
he thinks he is smarter then everyone but thats why
they end up on amw.com on the run from the cops and
most the time they end up in jail a body Like most hard core
criminals like Marty Wallace who has enter the life
of crime: Day & Night Stalker harassment phones calls,
cyberstalking, Vandalism and more pls. email for the
Marty Wallace crimes on cd. video, pics.
Marty Wallace is a Australia nutnook
... you quickly find that it's the phone number in Western Australia
> Marty Wallace is leaving sex soumds on my voice mail EMAIL ME FOR THE
> 200 VOICE MAILs he has left on my cell W/SOUND.
> AFP and phone co. said they have trace the phone calls back to
> Marty Wallace who is leaving sex sounds on peoples voice mail
> from Western Power Corporation The Griffin Coal Mining Companys Muja
> Power Station. someone is calling me on my cell and leaving sex sounds
> on my voice mail from this # +61897342316 and this # +616045507000 this
> has been emailed to all at Western Power and
> to bruce.doug...@WesternPower.com.au .
Australian Federal Police said Marty Wallace is calling
and the calls are coming from Marty Wallace is leaving
sex soumds on my voice mail from Collie River Valley
Marathon Relay,C/o Healthy Body Care, 26 B Steere St,
and from Western Power Corporation The Griffin Coal
Mining Companys Muja Power Station. and posting from
and from Western Power Corporation/The Griffin Coal Mining
Companys Muja Power Station. someone is calling me on
my cell and leaving phone sex voice mail from this # +61897342316
and from this # +616045507000 with the words fuck, dick, suck,
pussy, your dickhead, shit, gay, ass, fuck,you,now,ANIMAL,
SEX,balls,hair and alot of other words i don't want to post
BECAUSE I AM A CHRISTIAN.
DO A SEARCH ON GOOGLE.COM ON Western Power Corporation
"MARTY WALLACE" bruce.doug...@WesternPower.com.au cops
said *67 is not going help Marty Wallace m...@geo.net.au who is
a is a well known Australian netkook, psychopath, and coward who
is a Janitor at the Muja Power Station is leaving this is cry baby
little
Dan Burkhart
Sheldon Brown Wrote:
> On Oct 4, 7:24 pm, Dan Burkhart <Dan.Burkhart.2xy...@no-
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > Ryan Cousineau Wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > In article
> <1191468189.744636.307...@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Fitz <itzf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > See:
> >
> > > >http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/
> >
> > > > Comments are appreciated!
> >
> > > Has anyone established what the differences are between the Alfine
> and
> > > the Nexus Red Line 8-speed hubs yet?
> >
> > > My dream bike is more like Sheldon's recently-mentioned (but
> created
> > > by
> > > Harris Cyclery in 2006 or so) San Jos8, which is basically a
> UCI-legal
> > > cyclocross bike with a Red Line 8 hub.
> >
> > > --
> > > Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.cahttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> > > "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> > > to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
> >
> > are identical to the Nexus, and the internals of the premium Nexus
> are
> > no different than the regular one. They just added a red stripe and
> a
> > lighter hub shell and upgraded the bearings a bit.
>
> That's false. The red band version has an extra row of roller
> bearings surrounding the outermost gear ring.
>
> I'm ready to believe the Alfine is the same internally as the red band
> model, but haven't been inside an Alfine.
>
> Both of my own Nexus 8s are the bottom of the line model, and I liked
> them just fine when I was riding them.
>
> > Bottom line, if you want disc brakes go with alfine, otherwise,
> Nexus
> > with an Alfine shifter will be the same thing.
>
> And if you don't mind waiting. Alfine still hasn't made it to the
> U.S. aftermarket, though we keep bugging our distributors about it.
>
> Sheldon "Al Feenay" Brown
> +----------------------------------------+
> | If you ride at night without lights |
> | You are liable to be eaten by a grue. |
> +----------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com
> Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
> http://sheldonbrown.com
Hmm. OK, I only have the say so of the Shimano tech on that one. It
was all I could do to resist the urge to open up the alfine to have a
look for myself, but being a new unit, I did not wish to mess with it,
and furthermore, if there is a mechanical problem with them I wanted
Shimano to know about it.
Now, looking at the exploded veiw of both models, I can see one row of
roller bearings on both. Here is the exploded view of the 8R20
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SG/EV-SG-8R20_BR-IM70-R-2236B_v1_m56577569830609191.pdf
And here is the link to the 8R25.
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SG/EV-SG-8R25_BR-IM70-R-2315D_v1_m56577569830609192.pdf
Could you please point out where the extra row of bearings is, cause I
seem to be missing something?
The Alfine is in the Shimano spring order catalogue here in Canada, so
hopefully we will have some aftermarket units by March.
--
Dan Burkhart
frkr...@gmail.com
>
> Dear Ted,
>
> And Peter Cole is demonstrably not as right as the yes-it-is,
> absolutely-no-it-isn't back and forth that does little credit to
> either poster.
??? I, for one, am having trouble parsing that sentence.
It seemed to me that Peter Cole was demonstrably right. I don't
understand your apparently negative attitude toward that statement;
nor your apparently negative attitude toward Peter.
- Frank Krygowski
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Frank,
I bet it would look slightly more comprehensible with a comma after
right and the missing "shows" at the end. My editing of late has been
even worse than usual:
"And Peter Cole is demonstrably not as right[,] as the yes-it-is,
absolutely-no-it-isn't back and forth that does little credit to
either poster [shows]."
But I can't say that I'm absolutely right about that mangled sentence.
It's just a guess at what happened when the trigger finger of a
careless mind got too close to the backspace key.
My point was that no, I don't think that Jim or Peter is right with
their yes-it-is, no-it-absolutely-isn't positions.
The article that I cited seems to say that practically no new cars
come with asbestos brakes nowadays (which makes Jim Beam sound right),
but that lots of aftermarket brakes do come with asbestos (which makes
Peter Cole sound right).
But anyone reading the exchange got nothing more than
asbestos-isn't-used-anymore versus you're-absolutely-wrong. Jim failed
to consider the after-market, while Peter seemed more interested in an
emphatic disagreement than in explaining his point. Jim is just as
quick or even quicker with similar replies that explain nothing.
So I'd say that neither of them were "right" or "wrong" and that
neither of them would concede an inch.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
jim beam
i'll concede that i didn't consider aftermarket, but even then, having
extensive experience with this stuff, and knowing from that experience
that any materials containing asbestos are labeled as such, most
visibly, i can tell you that i haven't seen asbestos used in normal
vehicle friction materials in decades.
btw, you cited current osha warnings - those are very much relevant in
that there are still vintage vehicles out there with their original
friction linings, but those warnings are not evidence of modern
applications.
Hank Wirtz
> Tire powder and oil are everywhere.
> The question is what makes Seattle different,
> in addition to the year around rain.
"Seattle Rain" is pretty much a myth. NYC has more rainy days per year
than Seattle.
Yes, it rained most of last week and is supposed to rain this
afternoon, but that's after a pretty dry and pleasant summer. I went
fenderless all summer, only wished I'd had them once.
Peter Cole
> My point was that no, I don't think that Jim or Peter is right with
> their yes-it-is, no-it-absolutely-isn't positions.
>
> The article that I cited seems to say that practically no new cars
> come with asbestos brakes nowadays (which makes Jim Beam sound right),
> but that lots of aftermarket brakes do come with asbestos (which makes
> Peter Cole sound right).
>
> But anyone reading the exchange got nothing more than
> asbestos-isn't-used-anymore versus you're-absolutely-wrong. Jim failed
> to consider the after-market, while Peter seemed more interested in an
> emphatic disagreement than in explaining his point. Jim is just as
> quick or even quicker with similar replies that explain nothing.
>
> So I'd say that neither of them were "right" or "wrong" and that
> neither of them would concede an inch.
If you say so.
"jim beam" declared asbestos hadn't been used in decades -- so it was no
longer an exposure threat.
"no asbestos used in automotive brakes for decades now."
I knew this was unlikely, since my late model shop manuals still warn
stridently about using compressed air on brakes, and cans of brake
cleaner have similar precautions (although they may have a vested
interest).
I went online to confirm my suspicions. I quickly found out that:
asbestos in brake products is not illegal in this country (attempts were
made, but fell to lobbyists), and a significant amount of asbestos brake
products are in service and regularly installed. I didn't see the point
in a distinction between factory original and after market since these
things are consumables. Even as new car components, asbestos brakes were
common into the 90's, which was when the almost-ban happened. So,
"decades" is stretching things a bit, anyway.
There were so many articles refuting the claim I didn't think it was
necessary to cite, but here are a couple I found (in 30 sec or so).
People here know I'm a prolific citer -- so good in fact that at least
one opponent whines that I can find anything to prove a point, even when
I'm wrong (of course he never cites). Here, I thought the issue was
black and white enough to not bother, I guess you didn't feel so and
disqualified me on a technicality, so here goes:
Article from year 2000 Seattle paper:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/uncivilaction/brks16.shtml
Short summary: there was a lot of asbestos in 2000
Another from 2007:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/trtu796.htm
Short summary: there's still a lot of asbestos.
I don't think this NG really needs a scorekeeper, and if it did, you
would be far from my first choice.
Peter Cole
"no asbestos used in automotive brakes for decades now."
> i'll concede that i didn't consider aftermarket, but even then, having
> extensive experience with this stuff, and knowing from that experience
> that any materials containing asbestos are labeled as such, most
> visibly, i can tell you that i haven't seen asbestos used in normal
> vehicle friction materials in decades.
>
> btw, you cited current osha warnings - those are very much relevant in
> that there are still vintage vehicles out there with their original
> friction linings, but those warnings are not evidence of modern
> applications.
Blah, blah, blah, why don't you just admit you're busted.
landotter
> On Oct 6, 11:49 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > Tire powder and oil are everywhere.
> > The question is what makes Seattle different,
> > in addition to the year around rain.
>
> "Seattle Rain" is pretty much a myth.
Ya, right. Having lived in the area--yes, you can indeed have
wonderful summers, but I've experienced summers that barely arrived
before the drizzle sets in. It's not the inches, but the dampness.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Peter,
Oh, _absolutely_!
:-)
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
jim beam
constant and unrelenting
> dampness.
>
jim beam
coming from "mr. disregard anything that doesn't fit my preconceptions
and not admit it when i don't know what the fuck i'm talking about
[elasticity vs. plasticity]", i'd say that a bit rich. but hey, i think
three words explain it all - "typical peter cole".
Dan Burkhart
My apologies for bringing this back on topic, but I just had a
conversation with my contact at Shimano and he helped to clear a few
things up. As he pointed out, this stuff is all new to them as well, and
they are still trying to get their heads around it all.
To clarify, the internals of the three models are NOT the same. The
premium Nexus internals are made of lighter materials, and the bearings
are upgraded.
Also, he tells me that Nexus and Alfine internals are not
interchangeable as was peviously believed.
Anyway, until I have the occasion to physically explore the internals
of these hubs myself, I will have to glean my understanding of them from
exploded view documents and the all wise Sheldon Brown. ;)
--
Dan Burkhart
Jambo
"Peter Cole" <peter...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1b-dnQcFtYTTNZba...@comcast.com...
He won't - beamboy world rules state that beamboy is always "right".
But then again, we all already know he's an idiotic fraud.