Thank you all, it still works!

[N8N]

Just realized yesterday that I haven't really done any significant
repairs/maintenance to my old Trek since I tore it down to the frame
and rebuilt it over two years ago. I *did* pump up the tires and just
go for a ride yesterday, and everything worked perfectly. I attribute
this more than anything to this group as it really helped me get a
feel for the kinds of components I should be using, what tools I
really needed, what I really should replace and what could safely be
reused, etc. I ended up with a bike that I can ride pretty much any
time I want and is actually practical for carrying reasonable loads
etc.

The only place I'm second guessing myself is that I used vintage
handlebars, NOS dia-compe brake levers, and downtube shifters...
occasionally I wonder if I shouldn't have used the newer Tektro levers
and brakes that I originally picked up for this project (before I
realized that the original brakes just needed a good cleaning) and a
nice set of bar ends, but that was a bit of a concession to vanity/my
penchant for "vintage cool." I don't second-guess the cloth bar tape,
I have not replaced it yet and while it is faded it is still
serviceable and much less annoying than any other tape I've used.

Anyway, thank you - and if I get done with some work in time I may
just ride over to the pool later, which I can also do because I chose
my stuff right (a real rack, as well as "campus" pedals so I can ride
in boat shoes if I want)

Only problem is that given the time that's elapsed since I put this
together, even though there have been a couple periods where the bike
just sat, I feel like I ought to at least repack the wheel bearings,
headset, and bottom bracket... but just like I feel about cars, I'd
rather ride than wrench, I only wrench because I can and would like to
know it's done right...

nate

[datakoll]

YO NATE, watch out for the bus....

[Tosspot]

On 27/05/12 14:09, N8N wrote:
> Just realized yesterday that I haven't really done any significant
> repairs/maintenance to my old Trek since I tore it down to the frame
> and rebuilt it over two years ago. I *did* pump up the tires and just
> go for a ride yesterday, and everything worked perfectly. I attribute
> this more than anything to this group as it really helped me get a
> feel for the kinds of components I should be using, what tools I
> really needed, what I really should replace and what could safely be
> reused, etc. I ended up with a bike that I can ride pretty much any
> time I want and is actually practical for carrying reasonable loads
> etc.

Ere, is he posting to the right group? :-)

<snip>

[Dan O]

On May 27, 6:09 am, N8N <njna...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Just realized yesterday that I haven't really done any significant
> repairs/maintenance to my old Trek since I tore it down to the frame
> and rebuilt it over two years ago. I *did* pump up the tires and just
> go for a ride yesterday, and everything worked perfectly. I attribute
> this more than anything to this group as it really helped me get a
> feel for the kinds of components I should be using, what tools I
> really needed, what I really should replace and what could safely be
> reused, etc. I ended up with a bike that I can ride pretty much any
> time I want and is actually practical for carrying reasonable loads
> etc.
>

It is a very good choice of road bike, IMO (that was like a 620 or
something, right?) and you did a nice job (a little hung up on the
classic restoration aspect, and I think the reflective tape kind of
spoils it and screams, "I'm scared by traffic), but fine,
conscientious work).

Waht was the other bike? A CX'er, IIRC? How's that one doing? You
need a nice MTB, too (I think you'd *love* one like I got [mint
condition original '87 Stumpjumper Comp in Olympic Blue] :-)

> The only place I'm second guessing myself is that I used vintage
> handlebars, NOS dia-compe brake levers, and downtube shifters...
> occasionally I wonder if I shouldn't have used the newer Tektro levers
> and brakes that I originally picked up for this project (before I
> realized that the original brakes just needed a good cleaning) and a
> nice set of bar ends, but that was a bit of a concession to vanity/my
> penchant for "vintage cool." I don't second-guess the cloth bar tape,
> I have not replaced it yet and while it is faded it is still
> serviceable and much less annoying than any other tape I've used.
>

I really, really like Cinelli cork tape; you might give it a try -
less than the cost of a decent pizza and beer.

I have a project bike (Klein Performance). It will be 7-speed and
came originaly with downtube shifters on arcane boss arrangement that
limit choice of about levers to something that might be expensive and
probably friction mode. Also it had internal cable routing, which
would look realy clean and cool, but could be tricky and hard to find
appropriate cables. So I'm strongly leaning toward trying to find 7-
speed Ergo brifters (*think* they exist - pretty sure I saw a pait on
ebay once); would be cool to try brifters and I think they'd be fun on
a "play" bike (one that could also be used for serious
transportation), still retro since 7-speed, and the bike would not be
primary daily rider (backup bike) so needn't worry about ready supply
of replacement parts.

> Anyway, thank you - and if I get done with some work in time I may
> just ride over to the pool later, which I can also do because I chose
> my stuff right (a real rack, as well as "campus" pedals so I can ride
> in boat shoes if I want)
>

I understand (I have plasitc platforms on my whjeelie bike so I can
rid *barefoot* when I want to), and you also understand the advantage
of clipless clip-in and waht you give up for boat shoe compatibility.

> Only problem is that given the time that's elapsed since I put this
> together, even though there have been a couple periods where the bike
> just sat, I feel like I ought to at least repack the wheel bearings,
> headset, and bottom bracket... but just like I feel about cars, I'd
> rather ride than wrench, I only wrench because I can and would like to
> know it's done right...
>

The *only* problem? (I wish I could be so rosy ;-)

You could overhaul the wheel bearings if you want to, but unless there
are contaminants in there or they're the least bit dry it would
probably just be an exercise in... well, kind of like my probably
overdone chain maintentance.

And yes, you can wrench, and yes, this group is an awesome resource
(and a neat hangout 'cause they let it hang out).

[Dan O]

On May 27, 6:09 am, N8N <njna...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Just re-read your post a little more closely. Service / repack the
*headset*? Seriously? I don't think I've ever messed with a headset
unless there was something wrong with it. The bottom bracket? Have
you been riding in the rain? I haven't touched the BB on my LHT since
I bought it (admittedly, a sealed bearing cartridge unit, but I have
had a new spare in a bucket ready to go in for over a year).

If you ever start riding a lot you might consider well sealed wheel
bearings. I get over 10,000 miles between servicing the cup and cone
front wheel bearings on the LHT.

But go ahead on if you feel like it -by all means; and no judgement -
there are certainly worse ways to spend your time (I can attest) than
tinkering in the shop. And it is a good feeling to know intimately
the state of mechanical affairs of your machine - especially one that
is used in such a synergistic way with your own being as a bicycle
is. I know I used to service the BB and wheel bearings on my old Trek
all the time, but then I had to - what with all the rain and daily
miles and lack of seals.

You are a conscientious wrench. Shit, my bikes were in the garage
when it flooded in January - water and mud above the axles. I haven't
even bothered to tighten up the loose cones on the rear wheel of my
whjeelie bike (still whjeelies okay - might need some air in the
tires, though).

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

On 5/27/2012 1:41 PM, Dan O wrote:
> I understand (I have plasitc platforms on my whjeelie bike so I can

This is tech - you mean polymer pedals, not plastic (which is
non-recoverable deformation). :)

> rid*barefoot* when I want to), and you also understand the advantage

> of clipless clip-in and waht you give up for boat shoe compatibility.

I have Shimano PD-M324 pedals on my RANS Mini for just that reason - why
give up either option? Although I would not ride barefoot on them, but
I have no desire to do that anyhow.

<http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/pedals/mountain/product.-code-PD-M324.-type-.pd_mountain.html>

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
Post Free or Die!

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

On 5/27/2012 11:10 PM, Dan O wrote:
> Just re-read your post a little more closely. Service / repack the
> *headset*? Seriously? I don't think I've ever messed with a headset
> unless there was something wrong with it. The bottom bracket? Have
> you been riding in the rain? I haven't touched the BB on my LHT since
> I bought it (admittedly, a sealed bearing cartridge unit, but I have

> had a new spare in a bucket ready to go in for over a year).[...]

Peter Chisholm stated that he would re-pack his BB after every ride
where he got caught in the rain.

[Dan O]

On May 28, 10:06 pm, "Tom $herman (-_-)" <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI

"... I know I used to service the BB and wheel bearings on my old

[Dan O]

On May 28, 10:03 pm, "Tom $herman (-_-)" <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI

$southslope.net"> wrote:
> On 5/27/2012 1:41 PM, Dan O wrote:
>
> > I understand (I have plasitc platforms on my whjeelie bike so I can
>
> This is tech - you mean polymer pedals, not plastic (which is
> non-recoverable deformation). :)
>
> > rid*barefoot* when I want to), and you also understand the advantage
> > of clipless clip-in and waht you give up for boat shoe compatibility.
>
> I have Shimano PD-M324 pedals on my RANS Mini for just that reason - why
> give up either option?

Pedal strike. XT level quality.

> Although I would not ride barefoot on them, but
> I have no desire to do that anyhow.
>

The woods are greener over yonder
The path is new
The world is free

> <http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/produ...>
>

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

On 5/29/2012 12:54 AM, Dan O wrote:
> On May 28, 10:03 pm, "Tom $herman (-_-)"<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
> $southslope.net"> wrote:
>> On 5/27/2012 1:41 PM, Dan O wrote:
>>
>>> I understand (I have plasitc platforms on my whjeelie bike so I can
>>
>> This is tech - you mean polymer pedals, not plastic (which is
>> non-recoverable deformation). :)
>>
>>> rid*barefoot* when I want to), and you also understand the advantage
>>> of clipless clip-in and waht you give up for boat shoe compatibility.
>>
>> I have Shimano PD-M324 pedals on my RANS Mini for just that reason - why
>> give up either option?
>
> Pedal strike. XT level quality.
>

In platform pedals?

>> Although I would not ride barefoot on them, but
>> I have no desire to do that anyhow.
>>
>
> The woods are greener over yonder
> The path is new
> The world is free

And the ground is covered with detritus.

[Tosspot]

Gotta say, my preferred pedal. Cheap, last forever.

[N8N]

On May 27, 2:41 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 27, 6:09 am, N8N <njna...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Just realized yesterday that I haven't really done any significant
> > repairs/maintenance to my old Trek since I tore it down to the frame
> > and rebuilt it over two years ago.  I *did* pump up the tires and just
> > go for a ride yesterday, and everything worked perfectly.  I attribute
> > this more than anything to this group as it really helped me get a
> > feel for the kinds of components I should be using, what tools I
> > really needed, what I really should replace and what could safely be
> > reused, etc.  I ended up with a bike that I can ride pretty much any
> > time I want and is actually practical for carrying reasonable loads
> > etc.
>
> It is a very good choice of road bike, IMO (that was like a 620 or
> something, right?) and you did a nice job (a little hung up on the
> classic restoration aspect, and I think the reflective tape kind of
> spoils it and screams, "I'm scared by traffic), but fine,
> conscientious work).

Yup, exactly, an '84 to be precise. Still pretty true to the original
in appearance but the Helicomatic was long gone so it got modern
Shimano 9-speed stuff. Unfortunately I destroyed the original Huret
FD on my very first ride after getting it all back together, which is
a shame because a) it was cool and b) it was the one that worked the
best of all I tried on the bench, save for the Campy that's on there
now.

>
> Waht was the other bike?  A CX'er, IIRC?  How's that one doing?  You
> need a nice MTB, too (I think you'd *love* one like I got [mint
> condition original '87 Stumpjumper Comp in Olympic Blue] :-)

I haven't ridden it in ages, but my roommate/friend has come along
with me on some short rides. He's still figuring out this whole
"gears" thing. I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't set him on the Trek
instead as the DT shifters might be more intuitive to a n00b than
brifters, but he's shorter than I and the Trek is an inch larger in
size...

>
> > The only place I'm second guessing myself is that I used vintage
> > handlebars, NOS dia-compe brake levers, and downtube shifters...
> > occasionally I wonder if I shouldn't have used the newer Tektro levers
> > and brakes that I originally picked up for this project (before I
> > realized that the original brakes just needed a good cleaning) and a
> > nice set of bar ends, but that was a bit of a concession to vanity/my
> > penchant for "vintage cool."  I don't second-guess the cloth bar tape,
> > I have not replaced it yet and while it is faded it is still
> > serviceable and much less annoying than any other tape I've used.
>
> I really, really like Cinelli cork tape; you might give it a try -
> less than the cost of a decent pizza and beer.

Haven't had the opportunity to try that, but I might at some point.
Maybe I'll put it on the other bike, even though it would look all
schizophrenic.

Hah, yeah, my friends accuse me of being anal-retentive about
maintenance on everything... but I personally don't think that, say,
electrolytically derusting and painting my diff covers when I change
the gear oil in my axles to Redline Heavy Shockproof is overkill,
merely prudent maintenance :)

nate

[N8N]

Well, it's a quill stem and I'm still using the loose ball Shimano
(600?) crankset/BB that was on the bike when I got it; I kept the axle
and just replaced the cups and balls. And yes, I have ridden in the
rain on occasion when I got stir crazy and/or got caught out.
Everything was originally packed with a generous application of Phil's
finest though so hopefully that's OK. Hubs are Shimano 105 same as
other bike and when I serviced the other ones (used wheelset, unknown
miles) the races looked a little worn, although obviously I have no
idea what kind of service they saw. The Velocity rims were damn near
perfectly straight (and still are) though, which was the point of
*that* exercise...

nate

[N8N]

On May 29, 4:22 am, Tosspot <Frank.Le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 29/05/12 06:03, Tom $herman (-_-) > wrote:
>
> > On 5/27/2012 1:41 PM, Dan O wrote:
> >> I understand (I have plasitc platforms on my whjeelie bike so I can
>
> > This is tech - you mean polymer pedals, not plastic (which is non-recoverable
> > deformation). :)
>
> >> rid*barefoot*  when I want to), and you also understand the advantage
> >> of clipless clip-in and waht you give up for boat shoe compatibility.
>
> > I have Shimano PD-M324 pedals on my RANS Mini for just that reason - why give up
> > either option?  Although I would not ride barefoot on them, but I have no desire
> > to do that anyhow.
>

> > <http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/produ...>

>
> Gotta say, my preferred pedal.  Cheap, last forever.

The ones I'm using were on the bike when I got it but for all the
world that's what they look like. I want to say they were branded as
"Terry" but the Shimano tool takes 'em apart. *shrug* since they
started working fine with the application of a little lube on the SPD
part, I stopped worrying about them at that point.

nate

[race...@yahoo.com]

On Monday, May 28, 2012 10:06:02 PM UTC-7, Tom $herman (-_-) wrote:

> Peter Chisholm stated that he would re-pack his BB after every ride
> where he got caught in the rain.
>
> --
> Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
> Post Free or Die!

What? No drain hole in the bottom bracket?

[Dan O]

On May 30, 1:27 am, "racer...@yahoo.com" <racer...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Monday, May 28, 2012 10:06:02 PM UTC-7, Tom $herman (-_-) wrote:
> > Peter Chisholm stated that he would re-pack his BB after every ride
> > where he got caught in the rain.
>

>

> What?  No drain hole in the bottom bracket?

Actually, I was thinking maybe the "repack" was through a hole or
fitting. I can't imagine pulling the crank every time it rained.
Although, "caught in the rain" implies an uncommon event. Even using
boat trailer grease on my old Trek, I was cleaning and repacking the
BB every couple of weeks during the rainy periods.

[datakoll]

'TIS SPRING IN NA
the Willy will gyb
dahgree follic
and sum varick klat fuh

[datakoll]

EGAD !

Dano, service produces faster bikes.

The original service, butchered and long gone now has everthing rubbing on the wrong palce or worser on one spot or the lube congealed or the last accident thru everthing outnof kilter tho' everything was out of kilter after mile 200..

As to Nate relative to the above, I dunno either.

Your post, izzit sa tire ?

[Jay Beattie]

On May 28, 10:06 pm, "Tom $herman (-_-)" <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI

I assume he had an old loose bearing BB? Nowadays, you would have to
pick the wipers off your bearing cartridges (if possible) and relube,
something I never do -- and I ride in the rain all the time. I was
riding through water over my outboard BB a few months back and a week
or so later finally got around to pulling my crank. The BB was a
little moist, but no water sloshing around, and my bike doesn't have a
drain hole in the BB.

This is one reason why historically reenacted bicycles make no sense
to me. I'm happy that the old loose bearing days are gone, or at
least loose bearing and nominal seals -- like Campy NR with "dust
caps" on the hubs. OTOH, some of the Shimano seals are as good as any
cartridge bearing seals (e.g. SPD pedals, some of the better MTB loose
bearing hubs).

-- Jay Beattie.

[James]

Sometimes I gotta ask, WTF?

--
JS

[Nate Nagel]

Actually, I had an interesting experience last night... was riding
along at a pretty good clip (20+) when I got passed by another rider on
an equally old (had downtube shifters) Bianchi with skinny tires. Rider
was obviously smaller (thickness, not height) than I and likely in
better shape. I caught him like nobody's business on the downhills, at
one point I actually was braking while he was still pedaling, but then
he'd slowly pull away on the flats. I'm sure he was thinking "WTF?" and
my unspoken response was "superior mass and good bearing grease" :)
Seriously, my bike clearly had less rolling resistance than his, despite
my running 32s against his 23s or 25s.

So maybe I don't really need a service right now after all...?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

Water Treatment Facility.

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

Nope, Mr. Chisholm would pull the cranks, and reinstall *without*
greasing the tapers. Of course, this was in Boulder, Colorado, and if I
recall correctly, Peter also had a "rain bike".

[DirtRoadie]

+1
To spite the retro-grouch curmudgeons that frequent this group ("A
1980's Cannondale should be sufficient to win Milan San Remo
today"), sealed cartridge bearings are another one of God's ways to
show that he loves us and wants us to be happy. Many things do get
better with time.
DR

[datakoll]

OK EVERYONE TAKE TWO 'CYCLISTS BEACH PARTY'
JOHN, GET THAT MONKEY OFF THE SET....


"Twas brillig, and the slithy toves. Did gyre and gimble in THE BACK OF MY 46 PLYMOUTH...

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves. Did gyre and gimble in

[Duane]

Was riding once with a guy on a similar bike. We were about the same
climbing but on the descents he kept pulling away from me. I asked him
what his technique was. He said extra helpings of mashed potatoes.

[N8N]

The car guy in me thinks that using a closed tube for the BB would be
a good idea, combined with a Zerk fitting. I'm sure there's a reason
it's a bad idea though, otherwise it'd already have been done.

nate

[N8N]

I would have used a newer cartridge style BB, but I was running out of
budget on the project so just rehabbed the original :( If/when that
becomes unserviceable I will probably upgrade, ASSuming that they are
available in the correct format at that time. (I see that the Shimano
UN-whatever bottom bracket, the one with two separate rings, was
already hard to find at the time I was going through this exercise.)
I think that I would like to keep the square taper simply because the
old crankset keeps the appearance of the bike correct.

nate

[DirtRoadie]

A friend I ride with regularly is untouchable on a fast descent. It's
like chasing a tandem. And, no, his bearings aren't any better.
DR

[thirty-six]

Either your legs or your chain needs better oil. Try coconut oil for
your insides, palm oil applied to skin and castor oil for your bike.

[David Scheidt]

N8N <njn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:becomes unserviceable I will probably upgrade, ASSuming that they are

:available in the correct format at that time. (I see that the Shimano
:UN-whatever bottom bracket, the one with two separate rings, was
:already hard to find at the time I was going through this exercise.)

IRD makes a bottom bracket with two removable metal rings that's just
as nice as the Shimano ones were. Cheaper, too. (Also available with
weirdly threaded rings, if you're one of those people.)


--
sig 91

[N8N]

On May 31, 3:51 pm, David Scheidt <dsche...@panix.com> wrote:

Thanks for that, that's excellent news. The reason that I was hung up
on the two separate rings thing is that I've heard tell that the
Shimano rings were interchangeable with Phil Wood; that is, if you
started with a Shimano BB and ended up trashing it, you could replace
it with a Phil BB and not have to spend the money for a set of Phil
rings to match. Do you happen to know if that is true of the IRD BB?

It seems that in only a couple years the mix of products available on
the market has changed significantly; I guess that's to be expected,
but it makes it hard to keep up :)

thanks,

nate

[AMuzi]

Ask him why car doors have drains on the bottom panel.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[James]

I thought cartridge BBs were the bees knees when they arrived, but soon
after discovered that they didn't last very long and started making
noises soon. Their only boon was not needing to adjust bearing play.
I'd be lucky to get a season from a Shimano or Campy cartridge BB assy.
I even snapped a Shimano BB axle.

Roll on the Campy Ultra Torque BB. 4 years with not so much as a murmur
before the bearings had a wee bit of play - just barely detectable.
Replaced the bearings and she's as good as new!

--
JS.

[James]

More mashed potatoes then?

--
JS.

[Nate Nagel]

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a drain hole, I meant "closed" as
in "not open to the seat tube or down tube." If you were to construct a
frame like that, though, you'd probably want small holes in those tubes
as well, as you'd see on a fork or chainstay.

[James]

On 01/06/12 00:47, thirty-six wrote:

> Either your legs or your chain needs better oil. Try coconut oil for
> your insides, palm oil applied to skin and castor oil for your bike.

And if you slip off, or your bike gets the shits, or gives you the
shits, you'll know what caused it.

--
JS.

[James]

On 01/06/12 01:36, davethedave wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2012 17:38:44 +0100, Phil W Lee wrote:
>
>> I've got a bike, you can ride if you like It's got a basket, a bell that
>> rings
>> And things to make it look good
>
> A stolen / borrowed one though.
>
> He's got a cloak too and he knows a mouse called Gerald.

I actually FF past that song cause it irritates me.

--
JS.

[James]

WIWO system.

Water In, Water Out.

;-)

--
JS.

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

You need HED Stalingrad descending wheels.

<http://cdn2.media.cyclingnews.futurecdn.net/photos/2006/tech/features/Stalingrad/Stalingrad_600.jpg>

[Dan O]

On Jun 1, 1:43 am, davethedave <davedfoster...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 08:15:05 +1000, James wrote:
> >>> I've got a bike, you can ride if you like It's got a basket, a bell
> >>> that rings
> >>> And things to make it look good
>
> >> A stolen / borrowed one though.
>
> >> He's got a cloak too and he knows a mouse called Gerald.
>
> > I actually FF past that song cause it irritates me.
>

> It's the last track on what could well be the most drug addled album of
> all time.

The Piper at the Gates of Dawn?

> Mr Barret's intake of substances was, I believe, rather
> prolific in a Hunter S. Thompson kind of way.

It's still not crazy enough for me.

[Dan O]

On Jun 1, 9:18 am, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
> davethedave <davedfoster...@gmail.com> considered Fri, 1 Jun 2012
> 11:43:46 +0300 the perfect time to write:

>
> >On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 08:15:05 +1000, James wrote:
>
> >>>> I've got a bike, you can ride if you like It's got a basket, a bell
> >>>> that rings
> >>>> And things to make it look good
>
> >>> A stolen / borrowed one though.
>
> >>> He's got a cloak too and he knows a mouse called Gerald.
>
> >> I actually FF past that song cause it irritates me.
>

> >It's the last track on what could well be the most drug addled album of

> >all time. Mr Barret's intake of substances was, I believe, rather

> >prolific in a Hunter S. Thompson kind of way.
>

> I believe he was "self-medicating" in an effort to live with the
> psychiatric problems he was suffering. Clearly, it didn't help...

Sanity is not all it's cracked up to be.

> ..., and
> we'll never really know what proportion of his problems were due to
> the drugs.

From Wikipedia:

"Gilmour [in a position to know as well as anyone] was quoted as
saying: "In my opinion, his nervous breakdown would have happened
anyway. It was a deep-rooted thing. But I'll say the psychedelic
experience might well have acted as a catalyst."

> But his breakdown, and the effect on the band, resulted in what I
> believe was the greatest album of all time, and heavily influenced the
> band for the rest of their existence.

Yes, a powerfully unique dynamic among artistic influences, affects,
and personal relationships.

[Dan O]

When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye.
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now

[Dan O]

Looking for something you don't know what it is; following a
pharmacological path to dissociation.

Somewhere over the rainbow

etc.