Serious question about a 'private' cycling club - closed routes
Choppy Warburton
thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
charge a membership for.
I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
area for bikes.
TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
Jay Beattie
We've got something like that over at the Alpenrose Dairy -- and it
gets a lot of use. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/26890556/
Works great once you get used to the banks. You can really assert
yourself in (bicycle) traffic, too.
-- Jay Beattie.
P.S. Why doesn't your friend just buy a big chunk of land (say
Nevada, where it's cheap) and get a mountain bike?
AMuzi
It's not a totally stupid idea. Auto private courses have
succeeded and there are a gazillion types of cyclist, some
number of whom just hate streets. Has he consulted with a
ski area or skateboard park operator? He should.
That said, if I were a banker I'd want to see a major metro
area within an hour's drive, a serious marketing budget, a
marketing plan with tie-ins to major retailers and media
beyond the usual business plan investment/ maintenance/
liability/ projected revenue and expense numbers.
Probably plan for a very high staff component with medical
crew on duty and an all-points monitored camera system.
Selling 'safe' implies a high level of service compared to a
show-and-go club ride on public roads and probably some
higher liability for same. (note I am not an attorney. Jay?)
I'm assuming you can't charge the same $10,000 per year
membership that auto race courses garner. OTOH car venues
can't put a hundred amateurs on the same loop at the same time.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
James
Build it and they will come...
Well, some will come.
Some folks enjoy riding in circles at the local velodrome too.
Personally, I can only think of one thing worse - the stationary
trainer. Give me some scenery or a bunch of mates and a nice coffee
shop and I'm happy. The only thing that puts me off is bad weather. No
way I'm going to pay to ride on someones closed loop bike track. Too
many mountains to climb.
--
JS.
ilan
wrote:
If he's nervous about cycling in traffic, he's going to have it worse
on roads reserved for cyclists. I always try to avoid bicycle paths
for that reason. One of the most dangerous experiences I've had on the
road is when they closed off Canada road North of Woodside and have
having to navigate through zig-zagging incompetent and self-righteous
cyclists.
-ilan
Brad Anders
be very successful. I've lived in two major metro areas (SF Bay Area
and now, Phoenix) in the past 30 years and I've met many people who
were interested in road cycling, but too scared of riding on roads
with cars to take it up. I grew up with road cycling as a kid in the
Washington DC area, traffic has never bothered me. However, for those
who take up cycling in their late 20's and 30's (or later), it's not
hard to see how they'd find traffic in a major metro area scary. I
think the only way something like this could succeed would be if the
investor bought a property that already had roads built on it, and
updated or expanded them for cycling. Paving from scratch on a
property would be extremely expensive, hard to see how the operation
would be profitable. Perhaps another way to make it more attractive is
to make it a multi-use facility that could support road cycling, MTB,
hiking, equestrian, etc. - a.k.a. a city park.
--D-y
One developer managed to get a "bicycle track" built at his housing
development:
http://www.veloway.com/
A velodrome for Austin was sabotaged in order to pay for this, not
"bike lanes". Whatever.
I don't much like riding there but it does have some users incl.
skaters and bikers of all ages and persuasions. On a "busy" day, the
surrounding roads, even shoulders of 4-lanes, and other venues I'd
also not rather ride on, are much busier. So, IOW, good luck charging
admission and floating the project that way. Do it The American Way,
like Gary Bradley did, and get the taxpayers to build it for you...
Gary Bradley's legal problems are well documented for anyone wanting
to "look him up".
Austin is seeing something of a Golden Age with various improvements
being built to make "road sharing" much safer for cyclists. This is a
better way to go. It takes government "interest" such as (for example)
"City Bicycle Coordinators" working with local and state (TxDOT)
officials to get the motion going, so to speak. It's working here.
Even where it's just stripes and signs, etc., it works, and where
actual infrastructure is implemented, wow. A little willing peaceful
coexistence does a lot for my confidence.
--D-y
Frank Krygowski
> On Jul 7, 3:57 pm, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> > thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> > charge a membership for.
>
> > I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> > into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> > of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> > Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> > basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> > Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> > area for bikes.
>
> > TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
>
> One developer managed to get a "bicycle track" built at his housing
> development:http://www.veloway.com/
Wow. 3.1 miles on which to ride around and around and around...
<yawn>
But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
Personally, I'd never pay a dime to ride such a facility. I suppose
there might be some who would, but I doubt very much it could be made
to pay for itself, or even come close.
I expect the proprietor would advertise by saying "Bicycling on the
roads is dangerous!!! Ride here instead, where it's safe!" If so, I
hope he goes bankrupt before he pays for an ad.
I'd suggest that he save his money, and invest $50 or so in taking a
course on bicycling. It's not that hard. And it's not that
dangerous.
- Frank Krygowski
Dan O
Yep, much of the joy in bicycling is actually gettting somewhere and
"being" in the real world while you're at it.
(Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
too.)
Nate Nagel
I agree! that's pretty much how I came back to cycling - needed
something to do to combat the forces of laziness, but working out in a
gym sucks. But cycling, you actually *get* somewhere...
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Anton Berlin
rode it much except on race days.
AMuzi
Dan O wrote:
> (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
> too.)
Quite a large facility if they cover all the Soma sizes and
models
http://somafab.com/smoothie.html
"Please deposit 1,680 quarters"
Tºm Shermªn °_°
There is a locally made product (for James, that is) to deal with bad
weather.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
--D-y
Where did you see anything about charging admission at the Veloway,
Frank? And then it was off to the races... so to speak. Again.
Even after I said there are usually more (far more) riders on the
surrounding streets, even where what that means is riding on the
shoulder (wide!) of a four-lane-- one, a 65 (+) N-S limited-access
arterial, one a narrower road, similar, and another a "35mph"
neighborhood four-lane. Just to fill out another detail or two.
Point being, the Veloway does have ridership, it is excluded from
motor traffic, and it was paid for to some large extent or another by
COA even when it wasn't inside Austin proper.
The Veloway itself was, in effect, an "advertisement" for Gary
Bradley's housing development.
Do you get that I am not any kind of fan of the Veloway yet?
--D-y
Joy Beeson
<choppyw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
Where are these paths going to go? Is he also going to build grocery
stores, hardware stores, homes, theaters, etc.?
Seeing the crosspost, I suppose it could be that he's building racing
tracks, rather than cycling paths.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
James
Yes, it's called a 'house'. There is also a thing called a 'garage'
where I can go play when the weather is bad.
--
JS.
Tºm Shermªn °_°
They should build paved tracks, but put horizontal bars at about 3 feet
off ground all the way across the pavement at regular intervals.
Postman Delivers
* * *
Jay Beattie,
I am in Southern Nevada and ride a road bicycle, rather than a mountain
bike!!!
However we do have a large changing population that rides 35+ pound
mountain bikes that seem to come from the large Retail Stores to and from
work. It seems there are more bicycles on the roads each month.
Currently it is quite warm to commute towards home in the afternoons,
maybe not as difficult as the humid areas in other sections of the
country ( 112 °F days we had last week is hot).
Tis funny, after a month or two, I have seen many of the riders on my
daily route change to a lighter hybrid, or road bike, rather than
continue riding the suspension style bicycles they first appear to try
and ride as commuters. Some start and ride for several weeks, to
disappear but others seems to continue the daily commute and change the
bicycle they are riding.
JR
--D-y
(Whoops. Frank wrote):
> > But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
> > another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
> > kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
> > And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
How many laps did you keep track of, Frank? Was she timing, too? More
important, do you know anything about this person, really? I mean,
maybe there's a job (that paid for the "full roadie kit") and a
family, and time on the day for some laps...
What's wrong with roadie kit, in the first place, Frank? Or riding on
the drops, for that matter? If she's not using bar ends, on a bike
with fenders and racks and a generator light, is there something wrong
with what she's doing?
> > Personally, I'd never pay a dime to ride such a facility. I suppose
> > there might be some who would, but I doubt very much it could be made
> > to pay for itself, or even come close.
MOS, Frank-- the Veloway is free to ride on, if you'd do more than
glance and return to spew. I already addressed the economic aspect,
totally, "in front". But, you go on!
> > I expect the proprietor would advertise by saying "Bicycling on the
> > roads is dangerous!!! Ride here instead, where it's safe!" If so, I
> > hope he goes bankrupt before he pays for an ad.
He found more creative ways to go bankrupt, from what I understand.
> > I'd suggest that he save his money, and invest $50 or so in taking a
> > course on bicycling. It's not that hard. And it's not that
> > dangerous.
Maybe he already did "take a course on bicycling". Maybe he's been
deliberately knocked down by a motorist. Or been hassled by punks
because he had lycra britches on. I know someone who saved himself
from a "two-up", unprovoked beating by pulling a weapon (knife) on a
couple of gangbanger punks, even here in Austin. Ever have someone
throw a nearly full can of beer at you, Frank? I have.
(OK, I'm ready for Dan now):
> Yep, much of the joy in bicycling is actually gettting somewhere and
> "being" in the real world while you're at it.
That and being able to leave from your own dwelling and return also
via bike.
However: "Real world" might take some discussion. I mean, at the basic
level of "reality" (yours v. mine, for starters) and then, I'm
thinking of how uncomfortable you are in Car Culture. I mean, why not
go do laps where you can be free? Where even the skaters have to
behave to some basic extent ("proceed in the same direction and not
stick their skates out in the way of the cyclists as a way of playing
chicken")?
> (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
> too.)
No, only a few portable outhouses, a drinking fountain, and some
"manners" signs. BYOS I guess.
Yeah, Dan, those poor besotted souls who bring their families out for
a few laps around the Veloway, there's something wrong with them.
Ditto the beginners, with "guides", and, more specifically, the women
beginners who are taking those first steps toward participating in the
Danskins Triathlon and/or the "charity" rides in the Danskins season.
http://www.danskintriathlon.net/ If you read, try to do a better job
IRT "comprehension" than Frank did with the Veloway link. As I've said
here before, there is a large female bike culture here in Austin, with
an organic relationship with Danskins and other springtime events
which are deliberately scheduled (at least in some years) to provide
training miles for Danskins. They're not the racer crowd, those
females, they're people, often in "full generic roadie kit", who go
out and ride their asses off and have a blast doing it.
Maybe you should come out to the V-way and preach, Dan. Show them the
error of their ways, you know, and explain about how much you enjoy
riding in Hell and how much better it is to go mingle with "the
cagers" as you call them.
OK the Tour is back on. Of France. Full roadie kit, etc. etc.
--D-y
Tºm Shermªn °_°
This is more fun than being in the garage:
<http://www.trisled.com.au/rotovelo.asp>. Ride down to Dromana and
check one out.
Tºm Shermªn °_°
> [...]
> However: "Real world" might take some discussion. I mean, at the basic
> level of "reality" (yours v. mine, for starters) and then, I'm
> thinking of how uncomfortable you are in Car Culture. I mean, why not
> go do laps where you can be free? Where even the skaters have to
> behave to some basic extent ("proceed in the same direction and not
> stick their skates out in the way of the cyclists as a way of playing
I would greatly enjoy it if an inline skater tried that on me.
Dan O
> On Jul 7, 8:08 pm, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> (OK, I'm ready for Dan now):
>
> > Yep, much of the joy in bicycling is actually gettting somewhere and
> > "being" in the real world while you're at it.
>
> That and being able to leave from your own dwelling and return also
> via bike.
>
> However: "Real world" might take some discussion. I mean, at the basic
> level of "reality" (yours v. mine, for starters) and then, I'm
> thinking of how uncomfortable you are in Car Culture. I mean, why not
> go do laps where you can be free? Where even the skaters have to
> behave to some basic extent ("proceed in the same direction and not
> stick their skates out in the way of the cyclists as a way of playing
> chicken")?
>
'Cause most of my riding is undertaken for practical transportation
purposes (?)
And as for my discomfort with the car culture - bring it on, baby!
Mad Max runs the gauntlet - whjee!
> > (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
> > too.)
>
> No, only a few portable outhouses, a drinking fountain, and some
> "manners" signs. BYOS I guess.
>
> Yeah, Dan, those poor besotted souls who bring their families out for
> a few laps around the Veloway, there's something wrong with them.
> Ditto the beginners, with "guides", and, more specifically, the women
> beginners who are taking those first steps toward participating in the
> Danskins Triathlon and/or the "charity" rides in the Danskins season.
>
> http://www.danskintriathlon.net/ If you read, try to do a better job
> IRT "comprehension" than Frank did with the Veloway link. As I've said
> here before, there is a large female bike culture here in Austin, with
> an organic relationship with Danskins and other springtime events
> which are deliberately scheduled (at least in some years) to provide
> training miles for Danskins. They're not the racer crowd, those
> females, they're people, often in "full generic roadie kit", who go
> out and ride their asses off and have a blast doing it.
>
> Maybe you should come out to the V-way and preach, Dan. Show them the
> error of their ways, you know, and explain about how much you enjoy
> riding in Hell and how much better it is to go mingle with "the
> cagers" as you call them.
>
No, no - you misunderstand me. That's all well and good if they like
it; it's just not my thing, man.
> OK the Tour is back on. Of France. Full roadie kit, etc. etc.
I wear full bike-specific apparel for my commute, but nothing too
flashy - Nashbar sale stuff, etc.
Dan O
> -snip snip-
>
> Dan O wrote:
> > (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
> > too.)
>
> Quite a large facility if they cover all the Soma sizes and
> models
>
> http://somafab.com/smoothie.html
>
> "Please deposit 1,680 quarters"
>
Oh, that. Very nice.
I was talking about this, of course:
Dan O
"Some people feel the rain; others just get wet" :-)
Tºm Shermªn °_°
> -snip snip-
>
> Dan O wrote:
>> (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
>> too.)
>
> Quite a large facility if they cover all the Soma sizes and models
>
> http://somafab.com/smoothie.html
>
> "Please deposit 1,680 quarters"
One presumes that Mr. Muzi will *not* be converting his store into a
vending machine in the near future.
James
I could join "The Hell Ride", get fined on the way there and pop in to
see my Auntie while I'm at it!
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/05/17/1021544070073.html
Tom Leaper smashed 'em the other week, I heard. I don't doubt it after
racing with him. He's very strong at the moment. He should tear the
wannabes to bits.
http://www.procyclingphotos.com/sfgrandprix/2002/sfgp02_064.shtml
--
JS.
James
> But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
> another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
> kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
> And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
Is that a rare sight for you where you live? A woman in full roadie
kit? Maybe she was training? Some people enjoy riding and racing to
improve their fitness and ability, not for the scenery.
I've trained and raced with some notable female cyclists. Two spring to
mind, Kathy Watt [1] and Anna Millward [2]. So a woman in full roadie
kit riding in the drops is not something I'd consider noteworthy,
neither is the fact that they might be riding laps of a circuit.
[1] http://www.kathywatt.com/home.htm
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Millward
--
JS.
James
> "Some people feel the rain; others just get wet" :-)
In Melbourne, mostly, you get wet and cold, unless it's a rare summer
storm, in which case getting rained on is nice.
--
JS.
DougC
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
>
> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> area for bikes.
>
> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
I would think it would be rather boring to ride in circles myself, but I
haven't been a 'pretend pro" for many years. There's a lot of people
that are--they want to get on a bicycle a few days a week, ride at a
fast pace for 30-45 minutes in a group but with no other interruptions,
and then go home. These people mainly seem to pick the ride routes by
which roads have the smoothest & widest shoulders.
Plus I live in a mid-sized town where it is easy to ride on rural roads.
Big-city folks might go for this sort of thing a lot more than I would.
I think for the first 2-3 years I would limit the improvements to 1) the
track itself, 2) a gravel parking lot, 3) restrooms and 4) maybe a
drinking fountain.
Its worth keeping in mind that one could recoup much money if the unused
area of land had some other purpose, that the bike track itself could be
used for on certain days. I am thinking maybe a fruit tree farm maybe?
Some kind of niche agriculture. As long as the vehicles used for the
agricultural-aspect weren't big enough to tear up the bike track, they
could use it for access too.
,,,
That would add a whole different set of problems of course, but it would
also be more income from the "unused" land, that wouldn't be noisy or
totally disagreeable to look at.
Victor Kan
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
Sounds like a very limited version of the real estate development
George Hincapie tried to get going (or at least put his name on?), had
a fancy web page for, but now brings up a blank "Under Construction"
page.
http://rismedia.com/2007-07-11/new-cycling-centric-real-estate-development-plans-underway/
Duane Hebert
> Maybe you should come out to the V-way and preach, Dan. Show them the
> error of their ways, you know, and explain about how much you enjoy
> riding in Hell and how much better it is to go mingle with "the
> cagers" as you call them.
While I think that Dan O probably has some very unique opinions,
I don't think he's every insisted that everyone share them.
Just saying.
Fred Flintstein
operation.
Could it work as a cycling specific facility? Nope. You'd
need to piggyback it onto a golf course or something that
would draw additional revenue streams.
In a philosophical sense it bothers me to make cycling
dependent on driving someplace to do it. But ever since
the rise of the mtb that's been the direction we're headed.
Few cycling specific facilities are privately funded. Most
velodromes are in public parks so the daily maintenance
is buried in the tax bill. This isn't chance.
F
atriage
> In a philosophical sense it bothers me to make cycling
> dependent on driving someplace to do it.
Couldn't agree more. On the odd occasion I do it I always start the ride of with
a vague sense of irritation.
kolldata
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
>
> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> area for bikes.
>
> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycling+parks&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1
John Prince near West palm has one and the large Philadelphia mpark
whose name I foget and didn't ride
rick-...@uiowa.edu
athletic events or facilities is exempt from injury liability, IF the
owner doesn't charge a fee for the use. Once the owner starts
charging, the property owner is liable. This is the law that allows
cites to build skate & bmx parks without fear of getting wiped out by
the many & expected injuries. It allows private & public land to be
used for bike racing without insurance.
i'd say if you are wealthy enough to buy enough land for a personal
bike path, move to on of many islands around the world where autos are
barred.
Frank Krygowski
> On Jul 7, 8:05 pm, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 7, 6:59 pm, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > One developer managed to get a "bicycle track" built at his housing
> > > development:http://www.veloway.com/
>
> > Wow. 3.1 miles on which to ride around and around and around...
> > <yawn>
>
> > But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
> > another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
> > kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
> > And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
>
> > Personally, I'd never pay a dime to ride such a facility. I suppose
> > there might be some who would, but I doubt very much it could be made
> > to pay for itself, or even come close.
>
> > I expect the proprietor would advertise by saying "Bicycling on the
> > roads is dangerous!!! Ride here instead, where it's safe!" If so, I
> > hope he goes bankrupt before he pays for an ad.
>
> > I'd suggest that he save his money, and invest $50 or so in taking a
> > course on bicycling. It's not that hard. And it's not that
> > dangerous.
>
> > - Frank Krygowski
>
> Where did you see anything about charging admission at the Veloway,
> Frank?
Sorry to confuse you again, D-y. What I saw was the original poster
talking about a membership fee. Did you miss that?
> Just to fill out another detail or two.
> Point being, the Veloway does have ridership, it is excluded from
> motor traffic, and it was paid for to some large extent or another by
> COA even when it wasn't inside Austin proper.
I understand. The OP was asking about charging fees. Would that work
on your Veloway? Would those that now use it for fee do so if they
had to pay? As I said, I would not.
> Do you get that I am not any kind of fan of the Veloway yet?
:-) Does that mean that some day you may become one?
- Frank Krygowski
Frank Krygowski
> Frank wrote:
>
> > > But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
> > > another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
> > > kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
> > > And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
>
> How many laps did you keep track of, Frank?
I didn't even count. If I knew a report were required, I'd certainly
have paid more attention!
> Was she timing, too?
Impossible to tell.
> More important, do you know anything about this person, really?
I know that she dressed up to ride her bike around and around a large
suburban block. It's something I would not do, but as I said,
obviously she did; and she might be a potential customer for something
as boring as your Veloway or the OP's similar concept.
> I mean,
> maybe there's a job (that paid for the "full roadie kit") and a
> family, and time on the day for some laps...
Gosh, D-y, maybe you're right! Maybe she did have a job! Wow! ;-)
> What's wrong with roadie kit, in the first place, Frank? Or riding on
> the drops, for that matter?
Wait a minute - where did I say there was something wrong with those
things? Cite, please.
> > > Personally, I'd never pay a dime to ride such a facility. I suppose
> > > there might be some who would, but I doubt very much it could be made
> > > to pay for itself, or even come close.
>
> MOS, Frank-- the Veloway is free to ride on, if you'd do more than
> glance and return to spew.
The facility the OP described would not be free (speaking of
spewing!) Review the thread, please, this time while sober.
> > > I'd suggest that he save his money, and invest $50 or so in taking a
> > > course on bicycling. It's not that hard. And it's not that
> > > dangerous.
>
> Maybe he already did "take a course on bicycling".
:-) Wanna bet? The odds are _way_ on my side.
> Maybe he's been
> deliberately knocked down by a motorist. Or been hassled by punks
> because he had lycra britches on. I know someone who saved himself
> from a "two-up", unprovoked beating by pulling a weapon (knife) on a
> couple of gangbanger punks, even here in Austin. Ever have someone
> throw a nearly full can of beer at you, Frank? I have.
Wow! Danger! Danger!
D-y, I've had two beverage cans thrown near me. They were so far away
it's hard to tell if "at me" was the intent. That's in about 40 years
of adult riding, plus lots of pre-adult riding.
For decades I've ridden through neighborhoods that scare timid white
folks. I continue to do so. I've never had a problem.
Perhaps you should lay off the sauce when reading this discussion
group. It might make you less likely to fly into rants and fear
mongering, and improve your reading ability and logic.
Now have a good day, OK?
- Frank Krygowski
Frank Krygowski
> Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
> > another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
> > kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
> > And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
>
> Is that a rare sight for you where you live? A woman in full roadie
> kit? Maybe she was training? Some people enjoy riding and racing to
> improve their fitness and ability, not for the scenery.
It's not that rare to see a woman in a cycling outfit on a road bike.
But at least around here, it's rare to see such a person riding around
and around a suburban block. Is that common in your area?
I should perhaps mention that this town has lots of pleasant country
roads around it. It's about 50 miles from my home, and it's one of
the places I really enjoy riding to. There's also a long bike trail
(for those who like them) about a mile away from where she was
riding. Personally, I'd prefer even that.
But as I said, I guess the around and around thing works for some
people.
- Frank Krygowski
Frank Krygowski
Same here. Very few of my bike rides start with a car ride.
OTOH, I can see how one could eventually get bored with the roads near
one's home, and want to explore further afield.
If (say) we had any kind of train service in this town, I could enjoy
a train ride out, then a bike ride to return. That could be fun.
- Frank Krygowski
landotter
> -snip snip-
>
> Dan O wrote:
> > (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
> > too.)
>
> Quite a large facility if they cover all the Soma sizes and
> models
>
> http://somafab.com/smoothie.html
>
> "Please deposit 1,680 quarters"
Good one! Have you guys built up any of the Sagas? Is the fit and
finish in the ballpark of the comparably priced Surlys?
landotter
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
>
> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> area for bikes.
>
> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
A paved criterium course would be fun, but the best option isn't
pavement, it's a dirt pump track. Fairly cheap to build, and super
fun.
(PeteCresswell)
>OTOH, I can see how one could eventually get bored with the roads near
>one's home, and want to explore further afield.
>
>If (say) we had any kind of train service in this town, I could enjoy
>a train ride out, then a bike ride to return. That could be fun.
That's one advantage of living in the Philadelphia 'burbs.
The train service allows bicycles during off hours.
Typically I'll take the train in to center city, do what I have
to do (doctor's, dentist, whatever), and then meander the 30-odd
miles home.
--
PeteCresswell
mike.a...@gmail.com
> A wealthy friend of mine that is nervous about cycling in traffic
> thinks that he wants to buy some land and pave cycling paths and
> charge a membership for.
>
> I think it's impractical because cyclists like to assert themselves
> into traffic despite the risks and most enjoy the change and variety
> of using existing roads as well as the scenery they provide.
>
> Would this be a practical idea - would cyclists use it on a regular
> basis - and lastly what features would cyclists want included?
>
> Ideas already include a clubhouse, lockers and showers and storage
> area for bikes.
>
> TIA for any opinion / advice you can give
Campground & MTB trails. Perhaps extend the range by installing
gravel paths next to tree lines / property lines? I. E. widen the gap
between the plowed field and obstructions and build a gravel trail
there. Use the 3/8 with fines line mule drawn canal paths versus the
3/4 inch for cars.
James
> On Jul 8, 1:12 am, James <james.e.stew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
> > > another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
> > > kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
> > > And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
>
> > Is that a rare sight for you where you live? A woman in full roadie
> > kit? Maybe she was training? Some people enjoy riding and racing to
> > improve their fitness and ability, not for the scenery.
>
> It's not that rare to see a woman in a cycling outfit on a road bike.
> But at least around here, it's rare to see such a person riding around
> and around a suburban block. Is that common in your area?
I don't take much notice, but I recall a few club riders would
occasionally go and ride around the industrial estate on weekends
where we used to race criteriums.
> I should perhaps mention that this town has lots of pleasant country
> roads around it. It's about 50 miles from my home, and it's one of
> the places I really enjoy riding to. There's also a long bike trail
> (for those who like them) about a mile away from where she was
> riding. Personally, I'd prefer even that.
I'd prefer some variety too.
> But as I said, I guess the around and around thing works for some
> people.
Having a consistent training route is sometimes better to gauge ones
performance. Erg is the most consistent and most boring, IMO.
--
JS.
Lou Holtman
Maybe she just went out for a exercise and didn't want to go far from
home. I have a short 3 km loop close to home were I do my interval
training. Two small climbs where I get my heartbeat to 90% and two
downhills were I can recover. Boring as hell, but very effective even
when it is dark. The 'Franks' in that street must also think 'what an
idiot' when I come by 15 times.....
Lou
AMuzi
Better finish, better materials, more models & sizes, lower
prices and the people are nice too. All rare features.
100+ year old outfit, they know what they are doing and they
do it very well.
http://www.merrysales.com/aboutus.html
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
kolldata
shoulders, and wider paving equipment bought as the old amortized. The
new shoulders are bike lanes.
You may not add that up staying within your locale. There's a lot of
new pavement.
I'm at Winthrop/Twisp east of the Cascades on 20. Farrar country and
20 has lanes on older pavement. Beaut rolling road good for long
distance training with moderate rolling hills, sweeping hi speed
corners. And because of the cpuntrysides tourist nature...the weather
is fantastic...traffic tend to be aware of cyclists.
I have a Bike Lanes photo group for a downhill out of the Cascades
down to the Columbia. I stop at Washington Pass on 20. The Pass is a
geezer run ! with 6-7 geezers climbing the Pass every 30 minutes.
ERSHC
> On Jul 8, 12:02 am, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>> Frank wrote:
>>
>> > > But I guess that works for some people. When visiting a friend in
>> > > another town, I looked out the window and saw a woman in full roadie
>> > > kit riding by on the drops. Four minutes later, she came by again.
>> > > And four minutes later, again. And again. And again...
>>
Oh come on, she was probably training for a crit.
Was there an occasional prime bell?
Tºm Shermªn °_°
Here is a paved cycle course, the Sloten Sportpark wielercurcuit:
<http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.337935,4.806125&hl=en&ll=52.337148,4.808192&spn=0.012954,0.041499&num=1&t=h&z=15>,
<http://www.nieuwwest.amsterdam.nl/publish/pages/287982/plattegrondtot2007voordekomstvandeturnhal.pdf>.
Maybe Lou Holtman can tell us how it is funded, and what the use
restrictions are?
View of the track during a race:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTx7DKSlbPg&feature=player_embedded>.
Lou Holtman
Public funds from local governements, some sponsering I guess and the
natianal cyling organisation. Like you see it is part of a larger sports
facility; velodrome, soccer pitches, baseball pitch and a large gym.
These facilities are never cost effective so private initiative is not
likely. In the Nethelands we have a ministry of Sports and Health with
own budget.
Dan
Not only don't insist, I wouldn't recommend it :-)
> Just saying.
thirty-six
> Depending on the location and how it was implemented, I think it could
> be very successful. I've lived in two major metro areas (SF Bay Area
> and now, Phoenix) in the past 30 years and I've met many people who
> were interested in road cycling, but too scared of riding on roads
> with cars to take it up. I grew up with road cycling as a kid in the
> Washington DC area, traffic has never bothered me. However, for those
> who take up cycling in their late 20's and 30's (or later), it's not
> hard to see how they'd find traffic in a major metro area scary. I
> think the only way something like this could succeed would be if the
> investor bought a property that already had roads built on it, and
> updated or expanded them for cycling. Paving from scratch on a
> property would be extremely expensive, hard to see how the operation
> would be profitable. Perhaps another way to make it more attractive is
> to make it a multi-use facility that could support road cycling, MTB,
> hiking, equestrian, etc. - a.k.a. a city park.
You forgot the lake and the dog track. Oh hold on I remember,
Manchester's Belle View Pleasureground, had a fairground, zoo,
speedway, dog track, billiard halls and other things which disappeared
before I had the chance to enjoy them. Anyway, this was a large
private enterprise which was succesful until television took hold and
occupied the masses. If you can judge the size of your target
audience, I guess a pleasurepark encompassing many attractions
(perhaps on different days) could work today.
Don't forget the ice cream parlour and cafe, an absolute must for the
Bianchi owner. Must be operated by Italians with a passsion for
coffee.
landotter
> landotter wrote:
> > On Jul 7, 9:04 pm, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> -snip snip-
>
> >> Dan O wrote:
> >>> (Maybe they'll have Soma in the vending machines at the bike park,
> >>> too.)
> >> Quite a large facility if they cover all the Soma sizes and
> >> models
>
> >>http://somafab.com/smoothie.html
>
> >> "Please deposit 1,680 quarters"
>
> > Good one! Have you guys built up any of the Sagas? Is the fit and
> > finish in the ballpark of the comparably priced Surlys?
>
> Better finish, better materials, more models & sizes, lower
> prices and the people are nice too. All rare features.
Excellent! It's the only frame of theirs I haven't seen in person. For
a haulin' bike, the standover clearance and kickstand plate win me
over. I'll start saving my quarters for a frameset.
Joy Beeson
wrote:
> Couldn't agree more. On the odd occasion I do it I always start the ride of with
> a vague sense of irritation.
I should drive somewhere to cycle more often.
When we lived near New Salem, I would fairly-often drive to
Guilderland, park at a supermarket, ride to Kim's Oriental, the
used-book store, etc., then buy perishables at the store where I'd
parked.
I've been meaning to do the same in Fort Wayne ever since we drove
through it on the way here, but there's never a good reason to do it
*today*. And nowadays I'm not really safe to drive after I've had tea
instead of my afternoon nap.
A couple of years ago I had my spouse drop me off in Columbia City,
and once I went to the golf course with him, then rode home by way of
North Webster so I could buy a pair of shoes. That's about it for the
last ten years, if you don't count using a bike to take a car in for
service.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
Michael Press
Duane Hebert <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On 7/8/2011 12:02 AM, --D-y wrote:
>
>
> > Maybe you should come out to the V-way and preach, Dan. Show them the
> > error of their ways, you know, and explain about how much you enjoy
> > riding in Hell and how much better it is to go mingle with "the
> > cagers" as you call them.
>
>
> While I think that Dan O probably has some very unique opinions,
^^^^^^^^^^^
Puhleeze
--
Michael Press
Peter Cole
> A couple of years ago I had my spouse drop me off in Columbia City,
> and once I went to the golf course with him, then rode home by way of
> North Webster so I could buy a pair of shoes. That's about it for the
> last ten years, if you don't count using a bike to take a car in for
> service.
Using a bike for car service is one of those great life simplifiers. I
do most of my car work myself, but even on those occasions, I've
frequently rendered the car (or it rendered itself) undrivable when I
need some parts. My local parts shop are used to seeing me make pickups
on my bike. They used to find it amusing, now they don't raise an eyebrow.
Fredmaster of Brainerd
>
> Using a bike for car service is one of those great life simplifiers. I
> do most of my car work myself, but even on those occasions, I've
> frequently rendered the car (or it rendered itself) undrivable when I
> need some parts. My local parts shop are used to seeing me make pickups
> on my bike. They used to find it amusing, now they don't raise an eyebrow.
short url:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/dj44ew
Ben
Frank Krygowski
Same here! It's the only way I can conceive of getting new tires
installed. (Other people spend 45 minutes in a dismal waiting room,
drinking bad coffee and reading months-old magazines while a TV
blares.)
It was at the tire store that a young worker came out and raved about
how cool my bike was. That's the '72 Raleigh with big handlebar bag,
generator lights, rack, etc.
- Frank Krygowski
James
Good to see your first priority was to point that out. (sorry).
Maybe next someone will reiterate something. (hold me back).
--
JS.
James
> Maybe she just went out for a exercise and didn't want to go far from
> home. I have a short 3 km loop close to home were I do my interval
> training. Two small climbs where I get my heartbeat to 90% and two
> downhills were I can recover. Boring as hell, but very effective even
> when it is dark. The 'Franks' in that street must also think 'what an
> idiot' when I come by 15 times.....
Oh, God, you mean there's more than one? Like Rolf Harris on The
Goodies? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDo_jgV5Mz4
--
JS.
Michael Press
James <james.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article <iv6v4a$cla$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > Duane Hebert <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 7/8/2011 12:02 AM, --D-y wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Maybe you should come out to the V-way and preach, Dan. Show them the
> >>> error of their ways, you know, and explain about how much you enjoy
> >>> riding in Hell and how much better it is to go mingle with "the
> >>> cagers" as you call them.
> >>
> >> While I think that Dan O probably has some very unique opinions,
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Puhleeze
> >
>
> Good to see your first priority was to point that out. (sorry).
First and last.
--
Michael Press