Semi-recumbent intrinsically better balanced on black ice?
Andre Jute
the road intimately and was looking for it, and I was riding uphill at
the time. On a high crown, the bike just slid away under me. I put my
foot down, balanced myself, and managed to hold the bike up right as
we slid slowly onto the level ice over the ditch, stopping just short
of the thorny gorse. No biggie, no scrapes or bruised, not even a
pulled muscle -- I was singing on the way down the hill --, but it
made me wonder.
One summer I briefly had a Giant Revive, a semi-recumbent from the
seat of which I could put both my feet flat on the road. I didn't like
the Giant execution of the scooterbike much for a variety of reasons
(Tom Sherman thought I should have ridden only the Revive for a good
long time to give it a fair go). But my fave custom bike builders also
make a scooterbike, the Utopia Phoenix, http://www.utopia-velo.de/relaunch/index.a4d#,and
theirs will be thoroughly developed if my Utopia Kranich
http://www.utopia-velo.de/relaunch/index.a4d# is a good guide. I could
get a Phoenix delivered more easily than even the NOS Revive in a bike
shop about 20 miles away. I'm just wondering if there would be any
particular advantage on ice with a scooterbike semi-recumbent because
of its lower centre of gravity, or for any other reason.
Andre Jute
Ooooops!
Roger Shoaf
"Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6dc5bee4-72b6-4333...@j42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
With ice the problem is with a lack of traction, not a function of how you
turn the wheel.
If I was trying to walk on ice the solution would be to have some sort of
spikes on my shoes if driving a car it would be chains or studded tires. A
cycle of any sort needs to maintain traction to function so you will always
have a problem if you loose traction.
--
Roger Shoaf
About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.
Tom Sherman °_°
over the bad spots. Draising can also help you get going in low traction
situations.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
DougC
I would agree. On a recumbent it's possible to put your feet on the
ground while seated, but if you simply drop your feet to the ground,
your legs are usually extended pretty far forward, which isn't a very
useful position for supporting your body.
(-additionally,,,, in my experience of a few years riding recumbents,
you can't really balance as precisely on a recumbent as you can on any
kind of upright or semi-upright bike. On a recumbent your back is leaned
against the seat-back and you can't move your torso left and right to
help balance. Riders of upright bikes do this constantly although they
may not realize it [ride a recumbent for a few days, and you'll realize
it]-)
A semi-upright like the RANS bikes (or similar) would be a lot better.
The RANS is fairly-upright and if you drop your feet from the pedals,
they hit the ground very close to where you'd need them to stand.
..... but even before that..... good studded tires would pretty much
avoid the problem on any kind of bike you chose.
~
Andre Jute
> "Andre Jute" <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6dc5bee4-72b6-4333...@j42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...> Today I came off my bike on black ice. It wasn't a big deal. I know
> > the road intimately and was looking for it, and I was riding uphill at
> > the time. On a high crown, the bike just slid away under me. I put my
> > foot down, balanced myself, and managed to hold the bike up right as
> > we slid slowly onto the level ice over the ditch, stopping just short
> > of the thorny gorse. No biggie, no scrapes or bruised, not even a
> > pulled muscle -- I was singing on the way down the hill --, but it
> > made me wonder.
>
> > One summer I briefly had a Giant Revive, a semi-recumbent from the
> > seat of which I could put both my feet flat on the road. I didn't like
> > the Giant execution of the scooterbike much for a variety of reasons
> > (Tom Sherman thought I should have ridden only the Revive for a good
> > long time to give it a fair go). But my fave custom bike builders also
> > make a scooterbike, the Utopia Phoenix,
>
> http://www.utopia-velo.de/relaunch/index.a4d#,and
>
> > theirs will be thoroughly developed if my Utopia Kranich
> > get a Phoenix delivered more easily than even the NOS Revive in a bike
> > shop about 20 miles away. I'm just wondering if there would be any
> > particular advantage on ice with a scooterbike semi-recumbent because
> > of its lower centre of gravity, or for any other reason.
>
> > Andre Jute
> > Ooooops!
>
> With ice the problem is with a lack of traction, not a function of how you
> turn the wheel.
>
> If I was trying to walk on ice the solution would be to have some sort of
> spikes on my shoes if driving a car it would be chains or studded tires. A
> cycle of any sort needs to maintain traction to function so you will always
> have a problem if you loose traction.
>
> --
>
> Roger Shoaf
>
> About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
> they come up with this striped stuff.
By the time I changed the Big Apple Liteskins on my wheels for studded
tyres, the ice would be gone. Where I live, in the South of Ireland,
ice is only notable because it is so rare. We're talking about a few
patches on the roads, ten metres in several kilometres on this
occasion, not iced-over roads. -- Andre Jute
Andre Jute
<twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
> Roger Shoaf wrote:
> >news:6dc5bee4-72b6-4333...@j42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> >> Today I came off my bike on black ice. It wasn't a big deal. I know
> >> the road intimately and was looking for it, and I was riding uphill at
> >> the time. On a high crown, the bike just slid away under me. I put my
> >> foot down, balanced myself, and managed to hold the bike up right as
> >> we slid slowly onto the level ice over the ditch, stopping just short
> >> of the thorny gorse. No biggie, no scrapes or bruised, not even a
> >> pulled muscle -- I was singing on the way down the hill --, but it
> >> made me wonder.
>
> >> One summer I briefly had a Giant Revive, a semi-recumbent from the
> >> seat of which I could put both my feet flat on the road. I didn't like
> >> the Giant execution of the scooterbike much for a variety of reasons
> >> (Tom Sherman thought I should have ridden only the Revive for a good
> >> long time to give it a fair go). But my fave custom bike builders also
> >> make a scooterbike, the Utopia Phoenix,
> >http://www.utopia-velo.de/relaunch/index.a4d#,and
> >> theirs will be thoroughly developed if my Utopia Kranich
> >> get a Phoenix delivered more easily than even the NOS Revive in a bike
> >> shop about 20 miles away. I'm just wondering if there would be any
> >> particular advantage on ice with a scooterbike semi-recumbent because
> >> of its lower centre of gravity, or for any other reason.
>
> >> Andre Jute
> >> Ooooops!
>
> > With ice the problem is with a lack of traction, not a function of how you
> > turn the wheel.
>
> > If I was trying to walk on ice the solution would be to have some sort of
> > spikes on my shoes if driving a car it would be chains or studded tires. A
> > cycle of any sort needs to maintain traction to function so you will always
> > have a problem if you loose traction.
>
> On a semi-recumbent or a 'bent with an upright seat, you can "draise"
> over the bad spots. Draising can also help you get going in low traction
> situations.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
> I am a vehicular cyclist.
"Draising" being the act of pushing the bike along with your feet
against the road rather than on the pedals? Raises the further
question: where did those "scooterbikes" get their name, or it is a
generic created from the fiirst (?) of the the type, the Scooterbike?
-- Andre Jute
Andre Jute
> On 12/28/2009 7:51 PM, Tom Sherman _ wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Roger Shoaf wrote:
> >>news:6dc5bee4-72b6-4333...@j42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> >>> Today I came off my bike on black ice. It wasn't a big deal. I know
> >>> the road intimately and was looking for it, and I was riding uphill at
> >>> the time. On a high crown, the bike just slid away under me. I put my
> >>> foot down, balanced myself, and managed to hold the bike up right as
> >>> we slid slowly onto the level ice over the ditch, stopping just short
> >>> of the thorny gorse. No biggie, no scrapes or bruised, not even a
> >>> pulled muscle -- I was singing on the way down the hill --, but it
> >>> made me wonder.
>
> >>> One summer I briefly had a Giant Revive, a semi-recumbent from the
> >>> seat of which I could put both my feet flat on the road. I didn't like
> >>> the Giant execution of the scooterbike much for a variety of reasons
> >>> (Tom Sherman thought I should have ridden only the Revive for a good
> >>> long time to give it a fair go). But my fave custom bike builders also
> >>> make a scooterbike, the Utopia Phoenix,
> >>http://www.utopia-velo.de/relaunch/index.a4d#,and
> >>> theirs will be thoroughly developed if my Utopia Kranich
My current fave bike, the Utopia Kranich, has a very low bottom
bracket, specifically designed so you can put one toe on the ground
while seated even if you set the seat as high as I do. That's what
saved me in the incident described, that I could put my foot flat and
find grip a fraction of a second earlier than I would have been able
to on, for instance, a high mountain bike.
I've noted your remarks about where one would place one's feet on the
ground. The type of Scooterbike-Giant Revive-Utopia Phoenix semi-
recumbent I have in mind lets you put your feet on the ground in a
better position than a full recumbent, that's for sure, but you're
right, the RANS crank-forward bikes would allow feet on the ground in
an even more natural position.
We don't have ice often enough, or widespread enough, to justify
spiked tyres. The cure would be worse than the condition!
Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Bicycles at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html