Frankenstem aka Allsop Suspension St
Graham Brant Richards
It annoys me when folks claim that they "only need" a certain amount of
suspension. Why? Masochistic?
It's like the beginners-should-ride-rigid thing.
Super-cool advanced riders (hey! that's me :-)) can leap obstacles in a
single bound, wheelie off things and get by with no suspension. Beginners
can't. Put a beginner on a full-suspension bike and they can crash into big
rocks, ride down steep stuff and have a great time.
If suspension is a device to getting more people on the trail, by making it
all easier to do, then great. If that offends you purists, then I'm sorry.
As for the claim that the stem is better 'coz...
>the Allsop will give you a much more supple spring than an equivalently
priced fork...
*Rubbish!* I don't ever remember seeing anything to suggest that spring rate
was related to price. I thought it was more to do with specification,
material and rider set-up.
Give me bouncy forks (not clunky stems) any day.
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Brian Lee
>*Rubbish!* I don't ever remember seeing anything to suggest that spring rate
>was related to price. I thought it was more to do with specification,
>material and rider set-up.
How much does the Allsop stem cost? ~$200 (US). How much travel do you
get from an equivalently priced fork? Usually about 1" - 1 1/2". And
this travel is often stiff and/or not very progressive or tunable.
On the other hand, the stem gives you +2" of travel and is very supple over
small & medium size bumps (which most entry level forks are aimed at). That's
what I'm saying. For an equivalent cost, you get more bang out of the stem.
Of course if you spend more for a better fork, you'll get better damping,
more travel, and better torsional rigidity. But that's if you want to spend
the extra money.
--
Brian (meeting? what meeting?) Lee |
bl...@chiron.com | "Eschew Obfuscation"
Emeryville (upscale toxic dump), CA |
Graham Brant Richards
Re:- Amounts of travel in Allsop and "Cheap Forks"
Quality of travel is what counts, not amount of movement. I'd still rather
have 1.5" of elastomer (compression) controlled movement, than a clank-clank
spring.
If elastomers have a problem with fast rebound damping, it's nothing compared
to a friction-only damped spring on the Allsop.
Re:- Torsional rigidity.
Quadras are pretty stiff in the fork wars out there.
ji...@gold.gvg.tek.com
>
> It annoys me when folks claim that they "only need" a certain amount of
> suspension. Why? Masochistic?
> It's like the beginners-should-ride-rigid thing.
Most of the cheap suspensions are flawed. It might be a good idea for a beginner to check out the sport before making a suspension choice, since, as one can see from this forum, there is a lot of disagreement about what type of suspension is right for a given rider/terrain/pocketbook.
> If suspension is a device to getting more people on the trail, by making it
> all easier to do, then great. If that offends you purists, then I'm sorry.
I guess I'm a purist. I think that the suspension hype, (particularly at the low end) has a lot more to do with making money for manufacturers, advertisers, magazines, and the rest of the industry. Convincing Joe Average that he needs a suspension to even *think* about riding off-road is selfish and greedy. It is really kind of sad to see some geek riding a $3,000 full suspension bike on a paved bikepath on Venice Beach.
>
> As for the claim that the stem is better 'coz...
> >the Allsop will give you a much more supple spring than an equivalently
> priced fork...
> *Rubbish!* I don't ever remember seeing anything to suggest that spring rate
> was related to price. I thought it was more to do with specification,
> material and rider set-up.
I think what the poster was referring to was the lack of stiction with the Allsop...
>
> Give me bouncy forks (not clunky stems) any day.
Go for it. Say, didn't Thomas Frischknecht (sp?) win the world championship riding an Allsop Ritchey? Oh, right he had it
locked off so he really won the championship with a rigid front end.
Disclaimer: I don't have any relationship to Allsop. I don't use one.
Brian Lee
>Quality of travel is what counts, not amount of movement. I'd still rather
>have 1.5" of elastomer (compression) controlled movement, than a clank-clank
>spring.
I think you guys are over-playing the idea of the stem's top-out. 95% of the
time, I don't notice any topping out because with my weight on the stem, it
doesn't top-out at all. The other 5% of the time is only if I'm directing
my attention at the stem, or if I'm going down something that takes my weight
off the stem.
>If elastomers have a problem with fast rebound damping, it's nothing compared
>to a friction-only damped spring on the Allsop.
Maybe you ought to try a JP Morgan stem. Quality is much higher than on
the Allsop - different system of bushings and pivots.
>Re:- Torsional rigidity.
>Quadras are pretty stiff in the fork wars out there.
I get the feeling we won't come close to resolving this question any time
soon. Let me say that I chose the stem because I thought it was the
most efficient, cost effective suspension system at the time, with the
least amount of bugs that require aftermarket band-aids (fork braces,
bigger hubs, lower stems, etc.). Who knows, if a good fork system comes
out down the line that satisfies me, I may chuck the stem and go with a fork.
But for now, I think you shouldn't dismiss suspension stems as a viable
suspension system.
--
Brian (meeting? what meeting?) Lee | "Eschew Obfuscation"
bl...@chiron.com |
Emeryville (upscale toxic dump), CA | My own babble, Chiron has it's own.
Jan Zoellner
In article <78...@gold.gvg.tek.com>, ji...@gold.gvg.tek.com writes:
|>
|>> If suspension is a device to getting more people on the trail, by making it
|>> all easier to do, then great. If that offends you purists, then I'm sorry.
|>
|>I guess I'm a purist. I think that the suspension hype, (particularly at the
|>low end) has a lot more to do with making money for manufacturers, advertisers,
|>magazines, and the rest of the industry. Convincing Joe Average that he needs
|>a suspension to even *think* about riding off-road is selfish and greedy. It
|>is really kind of sad to see some geek riding a $3,000 full suspension bike on
|>a paved bikepath on Venice Beach.
What do you say about pavement? Come over here to (former) East Germany and see,
what pavement can do to your bike, back and hands (not to mention the head)! My
next bike WILL have suspension, preferably full. Yes, riding the streets here
is sometimes like a trip on moon's surface, but I live here and have to face it.
Sometimes a full susp. would look a bit silly, because we have new and smooth
roads, too. If we had only such ones, I probably would get a racebike. But I
also like cross-country rides and don't want to have two bikes. You get it?
Don't blame somebody you see once on a bike in the wrong situation (I have seen
people riding hard trails with a racebike)!
Greetings
IAN