Time For New Wheels
Casey Keller
and make noise when I brake. The crossed pattern on the spokes wears
grooves in the spokes so the wheels tend to creak and groan loudly. (I'm
using Campy Chorus hubs from '99)
I know there are fancy, high buck wheelsets out there, but they would look
terrible with my classic, lugged steel frame. Besides, most of the
cognoscenti on this site disapprove of boutique wheels.
So what should I get? Mavic rims again? Should I get the ceramic ones? Is
there a way to build the wheels without crossing the spokes?
Your help is always appreciated.
Thanks,
Casey Keller
Valencia, CA
Werehatrack
<casey...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>So what should I get? Mavic rims again?
Mavic makes some good rims, though there is one category I'd avoid...
>Should I get the ceramic ones?
Many report problems with these, of varying natures. In my opinion,
they're best avoided.
> Is
>there a way to build the wheels without crossing the spokes?
Yes, but it's better not to. Radial lacing has its own set of
problems.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
David L. Johnson
> It's probably time for new wheels. My Mavic Open Pro rims are getting old
> and make noise when I brake.
That is a brake pad problem, most likely. Look for bits of metal in the
pads.
> The crossed pattern on the spokes wears
> grooves in the spokes so the wheels tend to creak and groan loudly.
But, the spokes just do not move against each other at the cross. Lots of
folks have wheels that have many tens of thousands of miles on the
spokes, with no such grooves. Go look for the grooves. If the wheels are
"creaking and groaning" loudly, then the spokes would have to be very,
very loose, which is a poorly built wheel, not a "worn out" one from
regular use.
My wheels are about the same age as yours (given your 1999 hub). Now,
maybe they don't have as many miles, but there is essentially 0 groove.
yes, the spokes tend to be a bit "stuck together" at the juncture, but
that is mostly because crud collects there and is not cleaned away.
For a decent wheel, yes, the rims wear. The hubs need maintenance. But
the spokes should last many thousands of miles.
> So what should I get? Mavic rims again?
Well, the Open Pros do have a tendency to make noise -- it's a
design problem.
> Should I get the ceramic ones?
I wouldn't. Ceramic rims are a response to poor braking with anodized
rims. Better solution is to not get anodized rims.
> Is there a way to build the wheels without crossing the spokes?
It's called radial. Only works for front wheels.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
_`\(,_ | by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo
(_)/ (_) | Emerson
Ronald
> >there a way to build the wheels without crossing the spokes?
>
> Yes, but it's better not to. Radial lacing has its own set of
> problems.
FI Campy doesn't warrant radial laced hubs.
"Werehatrack" <rau...@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote in message news:d258j0la1qp6vpg92...@4ax.com...
A Muzi
> It's probably time for new wheels. My Mavic Open Pro rims are getting old
> and make noise when I brake. The crossed pattern on the spokes wears
> grooves in the spokes so the wheels tend to creak and groan loudly. (I'm
> using Campy Chorus hubs from '99)
>
> I know there are fancy, high buck wheelsets out there, but they would look
> terrible with my classic, lugged steel frame. Besides, most of the
> cognoscenti on this site disapprove of boutique wheels.
>
> So what should I get? Mavic rims again? Should I get the ceramic ones? Is
> there a way to build the wheels without crossing the spokes?
>
We notice this from time to time and I can't point to single
cause. I would rebuild with Velocity's offset clincher
'AeroHead O/C'. That rim gives a more balanced tension on
modern hubs.
(I don't know your weight, style, terrain or tire width. I'm
just assuming that if Mavic OP were appropriate and you
didn't complain of them directly that a similar width and
weight would be a good start.
Ceramic? Whatever for?
Use butted stainless spokes with brass nipples. Lube the
threads and under the nipple's head. Observe accepted
techniques found in The Book.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Tim McNamara
> It's probably time for new wheels. My Mavic Open Pro rims are
> getting old and make noise when I brake. The crossed pattern on the
> spokes wears grooves in the spokes so the wheels tend to creak and
> groan loudly. (I'm using Campy Chorus hubs from '99)
I use those hubs on my race bike. Well, used to be my race bike when
I raced. Now it's a bike and I should call it that. Anyway, those
wheels were built up in 1999 with Open Pro rims, the rear of which
failed by cracking around the spoke holes. It made some weird noises
in the process. In 2000 I rebuilt with MA2 rims and have close to
25,000 miles on them. No grooves worn into the spokes at the
crossings (if yours have grooves there is something *seriously* wrong
with how your wheels are built).
> I know there are fancy, high buck wheelsets out there, but they
> would look terrible with my classic, lugged steel frame. Besides,
> most of the cognoscenti on this site disapprove of boutique wheels.
>
> So what should I get? Mavic rims again? Should I get the ceramic
> ones? Is there a way to build the wheels without crossing the
> spokes?
Yes, it's called radial spoking. I'll remain agnostic about which
rims you should use. If it was up to me, I'd just replace the rim,
using the same spokes.
ad6mj
Casey Keller Wrote:
> So what should I get? Mavic rims again? Should I get the ceramic ones?
>
Velocity Aerohead OC rims are lighter and at least as strong.
--
ad6mj
Benjamin Weiner
> It's probably time for new wheels. My Mavic Open Pro rims are getting old
> and make noise when I brake.
Might cure with new brake pads or cleaning the rims.
>The crossed pattern on the spokes wears
> grooves in the spokes so the wheels tend to creak and groan loudly. (I'm
> using Campy Chorus hubs from '99)
?? Most conventional wheels have crossed spokes. If there's
clicking noises, lubing the spoke nipples and/or crossings might help.
Open Pros of a certain vintage get a click or creak once per
revolution, there's innummerable discussions in the archives
of this group. It's due to the pin at the joint and only cosmetic,
albeit annoying.
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Qui si parla Campagnolo
<< So what should I get? Mavic rims again? Should I get the ceramic ones? Is
there a way to build the wheels without crossing the spokes?
Your help is always appreciated. >><BR><BR>
Find a good wheelbuilder(like us!!) and have them design a wheelset
specifically for you and your needs. Use Mavic, Torelli, Velocity rims, DT
spokes. If they are noisey where they cross, then the tension is probably too
low.
http://www.torelli.com
http://www.velocityusa.com
Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
MAPaceBike
>there a way to build the wheels without crossing the spokes?
>
You can also build the wheels crossed, but without _weaving_ the last crossing
of the spokes as is normally done, so that none touch another. That is how
probably millions of old British bikes were, and they seemed to work fine.
Such wheels allegedly are slightly more limber than 'normal,' all else being
equal.
But, any noise coming from spokes where they are crossed and woven, or any
movement or wear there, is caused by too little tension and/or not initially
stress-relieving the spokes.
Mark Pace
Pace Bicycle Haven
Independence, MO
Steve Knight
>I know there are fancy, high buck wheelsets out there, but they would look
>terrible with my classic, lugged steel frame. Besides, most of the
>cognoscenti on this site disapprove of boutique wheels.
>
try velocity rims. very nice and a good price. I have a 32 radial spoke on front
using a arrowhead rim and on back 36 in a deepv all solid black. looks great on
the lugged frame and the cost was less then most.
http://www.velocityusa.com/
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
Jay Beattie
"Steve Knight" <ste...@knight-toolworks.com> wrote in message
news:k3vbj0h5uidsqrpro...@4ax.com...
>
>
> >I know there are fancy, high buck wheelsets out there, but
they would look
> >terrible with my classic, lugged steel frame. Besides, most
of the
> >cognoscenti on this site disapprove of boutique wheels.
> >
>
> try velocity rims. very nice and a good price. I have a 32
radial spoke on front
> using a arrowhead rim and on back 36 in a deepv all solid
black. looks great on
> the lugged frame and the cost was less then most.
> http://www.velocityusa.com/
Steve, did you mail order or buy locally in PDX? -- Jay Beattie.
Steve Knight
>Steve, did you mail order or buy locally in PDX? -- Jay Beattie.
>
local. I got the front wheel at veloce bikes he built it. then the back he had
someone build it for me. but for 125.0 0for the front and 150 for the back it is
still la pretty good deal.
Trevor
MAPaceBike wrote in message
<20040901104723...@mb-m23.aol.com>...
Who alleged this? If anything, the laced pattern where the spokes bear upon
each other produces a more flexible wheel, this in conjunction with high
spoke tension is why buckling occurs. By shaping the spokes during fitting,
at the crossing point, this excess of flexibility can be removed, resulting
in a solid and secure wheel. Movement at the crossing is then minimised and
it is this which prevents wear. What do you mean by stress relieving?
Trevor
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Boy, that speaks volumes....
carl...@comcast.net
Campagnolo ) wrote:
Dear Peter,
Well, it may be shorthand for "do you mean a spoke-squeezing
method that is deeply believed in around here, but which
enjoys less than universal belief outside
rec.bicycles.tech?"
I keep having trouble explaining the difference in evidence
to high-school physics students between tying and soldering
(in which I gather you are a somehat lonely believer) and
spoke-squeezing (which commands a devoted anecdotal
following here).
Posting a description of the spoke-squeezing theory on a few
metallurical forums did not provoke much support, to put it
as nicely as possible. Still. it could be such an odd
situation that normal engineers wouldn't be likely to
consider it.
As always, if anyone can point me to spoke studies (as
opposed to my-wheels-last-forever-and-I-make-plenty-of-'em),
I'd be delighted. Right now, I'm getting ready to email
Professor Gavin again to see if he perhaps forgot to mail me
his spoke testing notes. I'm reluctant, since he may be busy
at the beginning of the academic year and is doing it purely
as a kind-hearted favor to a stranger.
Carl Fogel
Trevor
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote in message
<20040902163307...@mb-m02.aol.com>...
>trevor-<< What do you mean by stress relieving? >><BR><BR>
>
>Boy, that speaks volumes....
>
Perhaps I should have used What do #you# mean by stress relieving?
Trevor
Steve Knight
Trevor
carl...@comcast.net wrote in message ...
>
>As always, if anyone can point me to spoke studies (as
>opposed to my-wheels-last-forever-and-I-make-plenty-of-'em),
>I'd be delighted. Right now, I'm getting ready to email
>Professor Gavin again to see if he perhaps forgot to mail me
>his spoke testing notes. I'm reluctant, since he may be busy
>at the beginning of the academic year and is doing it purely
>as a kind-hearted favor to a stranger.
I believe tied and soldered wheels may have a minimal advantage with spoke
fatigue and rim stability over my method of spoke shaping only if the t&s
method includes the same spoke shaping at the crossing.
Gavin describes his set-up for measuring spoke strain, and it is clear that
due to the limitations of equipment he only plotted a 'normalised' variation
of spoke strain in his real life plot. The point of strain of an unloaded
wheel is not shown, the equipment could only transmit an alternating
current.. The other plots were better and show the origin of the unloaded
spoke.
Trevor
Tim McNamara
Again you spout nonsense and offer no proof whatsoever of your own
claims. And you also spout more malarkey- at one point you were
claiming tied and soldered spokes made wheels stronger, now you are
claiming that wheels are weaker if the crossing spokes touch. Jeez,
get your story straight.
Casey Keller
it.
Casey Keller
"Casey Keller" <casey...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:LuTYc.13929$Ta1....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Tuschinski
For bomb proof, affordable wheels Mavic CPX 33 rims with Sapim/DT
spokes are a good pick.
--
Tuschinski