Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Is it a front strobe convention? No, it's "Bike to Work Day!"
38 views
Skip to first unread message
sms
May 9, 2013, 5:20:42 PM5/9/13
to
Today is "bike to work day" in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought
that there was a front strobe convention! I've never seen so many riders
with front strobes as I saw today. Kaiser Permanente was giving away
small front flashers at their "energizer station" in Santa Clara, though
they were of limited use because they're not all that bright.
I've started counting the number of times a front strobe has clearly
prevented a vehicle from exiting a side street or parking lot from
cutting me off. Yesterday I counted seven times. You can tell when a
vehicle is about to go in front of you then sees the strobe and aborts
their action (versus vehicles that you can tell were going to yield to
you anyway).
The "energizer station" I usually stop at is the one at Apple. It was
packed. They always have a lot of food. Today they had bananas, apples,
a wide assortment of bagels, and coffee. No free iPads though. This is
actually the only day of the year that you see Apple engaging with the
local community. They have cyclist employees working the tables and
serving food.
that there was a front strobe convention! I've never seen so many riders
with front strobes as I saw today. Kaiser Permanente was giving away
small front flashers at their "energizer station" in Santa Clara, though
they were of limited use because they're not all that bright.
I've started counting the number of times a front strobe has clearly
prevented a vehicle from exiting a side street or parking lot from
cutting me off. Yesterday I counted seven times. You can tell when a
vehicle is about to go in front of you then sees the strobe and aborts
their action (versus vehicles that you can tell were going to yield to
you anyway).
The "energizer station" I usually stop at is the one at Apple. It was
packed. They always have a lot of food. Today they had bananas, apples,
a wide assortment of bagels, and coffee. No free iPads though. This is
actually the only day of the year that you see Apple engaging with the
local community. They have cyclist employees working the tables and
serving food.
Message has been deleted
John B.
May 11, 2013, 3:17:40 AM5/11/13
to
On Sat, 11 May 2013 00:47:38 +0100, Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.uk>
wrote:
>sms <scharf...@geemail.com> considered Thu, 09 May 2013 14:20:42
>Is this some grand plan to get cyclists to use them then?
>saw you.
>Pray tell, how do you do that.
Recently I've noticed that a lot of cyclists in Bangkok are using both
front and rear strobes and (probably proving the existence of the "run
with the herd" instinct") have added lights to my "city bike".
But like you I wondered about the effect so have been asking other
cyclists that I see, that are particularly noticeable, what they are
using. So far the brightest front strobes have been the larger Chinese
made LED flashlights and the brightest tail light was an unknown "came
from Taiwan" bought it at a Bike show", that is (I think) one of those
that include laser stripes on the road, at least the girl rider talked
about lasers that you could turn on.
--
Cheers,
John B.
wrote:
>sms <scharf...@geemail.com> considered Thu, 09 May 2013 14:20:42
>-0700 the perfect time to write:
>
>>Today is "bike to work day" in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought
>>that there was a front strobe convention! I've never seen so many riders
>>with front strobes as I saw today. Kaiser Permanente was giving away
>>small front flashers at their "energizer station" in Santa Clara, though
>>they were of limited use because they're not all that bright.
>
>Well, clearly not, or they wouldn't be giving away strobes.
>
>>Today is "bike to work day" in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought
>>that there was a front strobe convention! I've never seen so many riders
>>with front strobes as I saw today. Kaiser Permanente was giving away
>>small front flashers at their "energizer station" in Santa Clara, though
>>they were of limited use because they're not all that bright.
>
>Is this some grand plan to get cyclists to use them then?
>>
>>I've started counting the number of times a front strobe has clearly
>>prevented a vehicle from exiting a side street or parking lot from
>>cutting me off. Yesterday I counted seven times. You can tell when a
>>vehicle is about to go in front of you then sees the strobe and aborts
>>their action (versus vehicles that you can tell were going to yield to
>>you anyway).
>
>And of course, you can tell which ones saw the strobe and which just
>>I've started counting the number of times a front strobe has clearly
>>prevented a vehicle from exiting a side street or parking lot from
>>cutting me off. Yesterday I counted seven times. You can tell when a
>>vehicle is about to go in front of you then sees the strobe and aborts
>>their action (versus vehicles that you can tell were going to yield to
>>you anyway).
>
>saw you.
>Pray tell, how do you do that.
Recently I've noticed that a lot of cyclists in Bangkok are using both
front and rear strobes and (probably proving the existence of the "run
with the herd" instinct") have added lights to my "city bike".
But like you I wondered about the effect so have been asking other
cyclists that I see, that are particularly noticeable, what they are
using. So far the brightest front strobes have been the larger Chinese
made LED flashlights and the brightest tail light was an unknown "came
from Taiwan" bought it at a Bike show", that is (I think) one of those
that include laser stripes on the road, at least the girl rider talked
about lasers that you could turn on.
--
Cheers,
John B.
Message has been deleted
sms
May 11, 2013, 6:17:14 AM5/11/13
to
On 5/11/2013 2:00 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> sms <scharf...@geemail.com>:
> proverbial plague, and for a reason.
>
> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe on civil
> vehicles, and rightly so.
Too bad. Flashers make bicycles much more visible. In the U.S. they are
also popular on motorcycles.
> sms <scharf...@geemail.com>:
>
>> Today is "bike to work day" in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought
>> that there was a front strobe convention!
>
> Thanks for the warning. I avoid gatherings like these like the
>> Today is "bike to work day" in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought
>> that there was a front strobe convention!
>
> proverbial plague, and for a reason.
>
> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe on civil
> vehicles, and rightly so.
Too bad. Flashers make bicycles much more visible. In the U.S. they are
also popular on motorcycles.
Helmut Springer
May 11, 2013, 6:50:36 AM5/11/13
to
sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe
>> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
>
> Too bad.
No, really not, believe me. It makes a difference how many vehicles
>> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe
>> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
>
> Too bad.
you have on the streets, so you probably can't compare the US to
crowded Germany.
> Flashers make bicycles much more visible.
> In the U.S. they are also popular on motorcycles.
view.
--
Best regards
helmut springer panta rhei
T0m $herman
May 11, 2013, 7:23:04 AM5/11/13
to
On 5/10/2013 6:47 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> considered Thu, 09 May 2013 14:20:42
> -0700 the perfect time to write:
>
> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> considered Thu, 09 May 2013 14:20:42
> -0700 the perfect time to write:
>
>> I've started counting the number of times a front strobe has clearly
>> prevented a vehicle from exiting a side street or parking lot from
>> cutting me off. Yesterday I counted seven times. You can tell when a
>> vehicle is about to go in front of you then sees the strobe and aborts
>> their action (versus vehicles that you can tell were going to yield to
>> you anyway).
>
>> prevented a vehicle from exiting a side street or parking lot from
>> cutting me off. Yesterday I counted seven times. You can tell when a
>> vehicle is about to go in front of you then sees the strobe and aborts
>> their action (versus vehicles that you can tell were going to yield to
>> you anyway).
>
> And of course, you can tell which ones saw the strobe and which just
> saw you.
> Pray tell, how do you do that.
>>
Scharf knows because he is The World's Greatest Expert™.
> saw you.
> Pray tell, how do you do that.
>>
--
T0m $herm@n
T0m $herman
May 11, 2013, 7:27:03 AM5/11/13
to
headlight in my lifetime - much of which has been spent in states where
modulated headlights are legal on motorcycles.
The only flashing lights that come stock on motorcycles are the turn
signals.
--
T0m $herm@n
Joe Riel
May 11, 2013, 10:55:12 AM5/11/13
to
"T0m $herman" <twsherman@REMOVE_THISsouthslope.net> writes:
> On 5/11/2013 5:17 AM, sms wrote:
>> On 5/11/2013 2:00 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Today is "bike to work day" in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought
>>>> that there was a front strobe convention!
>>>
>>> Thanks for the warning. I avoid gatherings like these like the
>>> proverbial plague, and for a reason.
>>>
>>> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe on civil
>>> vehicles, and rightly so.
>>
>> Too bad. Flashers make bicycles much more visible. In the U.S. they are
>> also popular on motorcycles.
>>
> I have seen exactly one (1) non-police motorcycle using a flashing
> headlight in my lifetime - much of which has been spent in states
> where modulated headlights are legal on motorcycles.
That's one more than I've ever seen.
> On 5/11/2013 5:17 AM, sms wrote:
>> On 5/11/2013 2:00 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Today is "bike to work day" in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought
>>>> that there was a front strobe convention!
>>>
>>> Thanks for the warning. I avoid gatherings like these like the
>>> proverbial plague, and for a reason.
>>>
>>> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe on civil
>>> vehicles, and rightly so.
>>
>> Too bad. Flashers make bicycles much more visible. In the U.S. they are
>> also popular on motorcycles.
>>
> I have seen exactly one (1) non-police motorcycle using a flashing
> headlight in my lifetime - much of which has been spent in states
> where modulated headlights are legal on motorcycles.
--
Joe Riel
sms
May 11, 2013, 11:35:26 AM5/11/13
to
On 5/11/2013 3:50 AM, Helmut Springer wrote:
> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe
>>> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
>>
>> Too bad.
>
> No, really not, believe me. It makes a difference how many vehicles
> you have on the streets, so you probably can't compare the US to
> crowded Germany.
Perhaps, but the place they are most useful is in urban areas where
> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe
>>> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
>>
>> Too bad.
>
> No, really not, believe me. It makes a difference how many vehicles
> you have on the streets, so you probably can't compare the US to
> crowded Germany.
drivers tend to do all sorts of stupid things because they tune out the
presence of bicycles. Fixing the drivers' mindset isn't going to happen.
The front strobes essentially force the driver to acknowledge the
presence of a bicycle.
Of course there are many studies that prove that a flashing light is
much more visible than a steady light, especially in an area with a lot
of other light pollution. It's why so many motorcycles have modulated
front headlights (though motorcycles are also now adding LED strobes on
the fork blades).
Sir Ridesalot
May 11, 2013, 11:44:09 AM5/11/13
to
Cheers
Sepp Ruf
May 11, 2013, 11:44:18 AM5/11/13
to
[>> Wolfgang Strobl:]
> [...] believe me. It makes a difference how many vehicles
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Hans_Grimm_-_Volk_ohne_Raum.jpg/80px-Hans_Grimm_-_Volk_ohne_Raum.jpg>
>> Flashers make bicycles much more visible.
>
> They don't if everything drowns in signal noice, see above.
Looks like some strobe-promoting dimwit snipped Wolfgang's point. Oh
well, who cares?! Signal noise? Screw it, brighter strobes for bikes
then, more is better, everybody knows that!
> The US is a rather specific case, from a European traffic point of
> view.
May the European Council figure out what "a European traffic point of
view" is supposed to mean.
>>> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe
>>> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
Trying to convince the smsexpert? Also talk to fishes and bricks a lot?
>>> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
> [...] believe me. It makes a difference how many vehicles
> you have on the streets, so you probably can't compare the US to
> crowded Germany.
Oh, that's lame, I've heard it before;-)
> crowded Germany.
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Hans_Grimm_-_Volk_ohne_Raum.jpg/80px-Hans_Grimm_-_Volk_ohne_Raum.jpg>
>> Flashers make bicycles much more visible.
>
> They don't if everything drowns in signal noice, see above.
well, who cares?! Signal noise? Screw it, brighter strobes for bikes
then, more is better, everybody knows that!
> The US is a rather specific case, from a European traffic point of
> view.
view" is supposed to mean.
Sir Ridesalot
May 11, 2013, 11:52:42 AM5/11/13
to
I asked a number of police officers about my flasking lights (strobe in front & simply flashing rear*)- are they too bright and are they distracting to drivers. The replies from every one of the officers was that they wish more bicyclists would use them because it makes them so conspicuous.
* the rear light is dual lens CygoLite Rover with a red lense put over it. I ride a lot of country roads a night and wanted to be very visible to overtaking vehicles.
Cheers
Cheers
frkr...@gmail.com
May 11, 2013, 12:48:59 PM5/11/13
to
On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:17:14 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
Perhaps one in 1000 motorcycles uses a _modulated_ headlight, and even that is not a flasher or strobe. The headlight does not turn on and off, which would be illegal, I believe. Instead, those headlights vary in brightness with a frequency of perhaps four or five Hertz, IIRC.
- Frank Krygowski
Message has been deleted
T0m $herman
May 11, 2013, 1:08:41 PM5/11/13
to
excepted) that has a headlight modulation feature, or flashing strobes
as standard equipment.
Also, except for some Beemers with linkage front suspensions (and a few
H-D's using obsolete springer forks), motorcycles these days have fork
tubes and not blades.
--
T0m $herm@n
T0m $herman
May 11, 2013, 1:17:00 PM5/11/13
to
--
T0m $herm@n
Dan O
May 11, 2013, 1:30:27 PM5/11/13
to
On May 11, 8:44 am, Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pat...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:17:14 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> > On 5/11/2013 2:00 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>
> > > sms <scharf.ste...@geemail.com>:
> On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:17:14 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> > On 5/11/2013 2:00 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>
>
> > >> Today is "bike to work day" in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought
>
> > >> that there was a front strobe convention!
>
> > > Thanks for the warning. I avoid gatherings like these like the
>
> > > proverbial plague, and for a reason.
>
> > > Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe on civil
>
> > > vehicles, and rightly so.
>
> > Too bad. Flashers make bicycles much more visible. In the U.S. they are
>
> > also popular on motorcycles.
>
> There is quite a difference between a flashing blinky light and a light on strobe mode.
>
Not as I read those terms used here in reference to bicycle head and
> > >> Today is "bike to work day" in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought
>
> > >> that there was a front strobe convention!
>
> > > Thanks for the warning. I avoid gatherings like these like the
>
> > > proverbial plague, and for a reason.
>
> > > Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe on civil
>
> > > vehicles, and rightly so.
>
> > Too bad. Flashers make bicycles much more visible. In the U.S. they are
>
> > also popular on motorcycles.
>
> There is quite a difference between a flashing blinky light and a light on strobe mode.
>
tail lights.
Dan O
May 11, 2013, 1:38:51 PM5/11/13
to
On May 11, 12:17 am, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2013 00:47:38 +0100, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >sms <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> considered Thu, 09 May 2013 14:20:42
a case of A) active lighting is perceived to be better than passive
reflectors (not necessarily altogethet true, IMO), B) flashing mode is
more noticeable than solid on (probably true, but IMO not altogether a
good thing [see "target fixation" below]), and C) flashing mode
*greatly* extends battery life (my primary reason for using it).
> But like you I wondered about the effect so have been asking other
> cyclists that I see, that are particularly noticeable, what they are
> using. So far the brightest front strobes have been the larger Chinese
> made LED flashlights and the brightest tail light was an unknown "came
> from Taiwan" bought it at a Bike show", that is (I think) one of those
> that include laser stripes on the road, at least the girl rider talked
> about lasers that you could turn on.
Ooooo, yeah - I saw that "make your own bike lane" light - weird!
Just plain goofy.
I use flashing mode primarily to add some active lighting for
conspicuity when solid light to see by is not needed, and usually
always run my taillignt in flashing mode - to exend battery life. My
taillight, though, has a nice, sedate, regular blinking pattern -
nothing crazy or blindingly bright either.
I also have a couple of PB SuperFlash taillights. Those things are
both crazy bright and crazy flashing. I use those as backup (fit in a
pocket of my messenger bag), and also as supplemental for very poor
visibility conditions. They get attention.
However, I do worry about what I think is the very real phenomenon of
target fixation, and that attention getting flash patterns exacerbate
this.
> On Sat, 11 May 2013 00:47:38 +0100, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >sms <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> considered Thu, 09 May 2013 14:20:42
> >-0700 the perfect time to write:
>
> >>Today is "bike to work day" in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought
> >>that there was a front strobe convention! I've never seen so many riders
> >>with front strobes as I saw today. Kaiser Permanente was giving away
> >>small front flashers at their "energizer station" in Santa Clara, though
> >>they were of limited use because they're not all that bright.
>
> >Well, clearly not, or they wouldn't be giving away strobes.
> >Is this some grand plan to get cyclists to use them then?
>
> >>I've started counting the number of times a front strobe has clearly
> >>prevented a vehicle from exiting a side street or parking lot from
> >>cutting me off. Yesterday I counted seven times. You can tell when a
> >>vehicle is about to go in front of you then sees the strobe and aborts
> >>their action (versus vehicles that you can tell were going to yield to
> >>you anyway).
>
> >And of course, you can tell which ones saw the strobe and which just
> >saw you.
> >Pray tell, how do you do that.
>
> Recently I've noticed that a lot of cyclists in Bangkok are using both
> front and rear strobes and (probably proving the existence of the "run
> with the herd" instinct") have added lights to my "city bike".
>
I don't know Bangkok, but I think that phenomenon around here is more
>
> >>Today is "bike to work day" in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought
> >>that there was a front strobe convention! I've never seen so many riders
> >>with front strobes as I saw today. Kaiser Permanente was giving away
> >>small front flashers at their "energizer station" in Santa Clara, though
> >>they were of limited use because they're not all that bright.
>
> >Well, clearly not, or they wouldn't be giving away strobes.
> >Is this some grand plan to get cyclists to use them then?
>
> >>I've started counting the number of times a front strobe has clearly
> >>prevented a vehicle from exiting a side street or parking lot from
> >>cutting me off. Yesterday I counted seven times. You can tell when a
> >>vehicle is about to go in front of you then sees the strobe and aborts
> >>their action (versus vehicles that you can tell were going to yield to
> >>you anyway).
>
> >And of course, you can tell which ones saw the strobe and which just
> >saw you.
> >Pray tell, how do you do that.
>
> Recently I've noticed that a lot of cyclists in Bangkok are using both
> front and rear strobes and (probably proving the existence of the "run
> with the herd" instinct") have added lights to my "city bike".
>
a case of A) active lighting is perceived to be better than passive
reflectors (not necessarily altogethet true, IMO), B) flashing mode is
more noticeable than solid on (probably true, but IMO not altogether a
good thing [see "target fixation" below]), and C) flashing mode
*greatly* extends battery life (my primary reason for using it).
> But like you I wondered about the effect so have been asking other
> cyclists that I see, that are particularly noticeable, what they are
> using. So far the brightest front strobes have been the larger Chinese
> made LED flashlights and the brightest tail light was an unknown "came
> from Taiwan" bought it at a Bike show", that is (I think) one of those
> that include laser stripes on the road, at least the girl rider talked
> about lasers that you could turn on.
Just plain goofy.
I use flashing mode primarily to add some active lighting for
conspicuity when solid light to see by is not needed, and usually
always run my taillignt in flashing mode - to exend battery life. My
taillight, though, has a nice, sedate, regular blinking pattern -
nothing crazy or blindingly bright either.
I also have a couple of PB SuperFlash taillights. Those things are
both crazy bright and crazy flashing. I use those as backup (fit in a
pocket of my messenger bag), and also as supplemental for very poor
visibility conditions. They get attention.
However, I do worry about what I think is the very real phenomenon of
target fixation, and that attention getting flash patterns exacerbate
this.
frkr...@gmail.com
May 11, 2013, 3:24:08 PM5/11/13
to
On Saturday, May 11, 2013 1:00:09 PM UTC-4, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>
> In my experience, police offices share most misconceptions of the
>
> general public about bicycling. This is even true here in Germany,
>
> where we have a lot more vehicular cycling than the U.S. In addition,
>
> these people rarely are experts for visual perception and perceptual
>
> psychology. They are experts in law enforcement, not researchers.
I heartily agree! Here are two standout incidents I experienced:
1) A brand new bike cop in my village, who for no reason looped around to pass my car by riding facing traffic as I sat at a stop sign. I managed to engage him in very careful conversation about it, and he said that people kept asking him which side of the road to ride on, but that he didn't know the answer!
2) An Idaho State Highway Patrolman who very rudely and aggressively stopped us for riding two abreast, and left of the fog line on the west side of Lolo Pass, which was then a two-lane road. (The fog line was about 6" from the pavement edge.) It took half an hour of very diplomatic conversation, but my daughter and I were able to educate him - using his own copy of the Idaho road laws - that we were legal and riding safely in both cases. (And BTW, I wasn't even riding two abreast; I had simply not yet completed my turn out of the campground drive.)
There are cops who know the rules very, very well. Some are riding friends of mine. But in any profession, there are those who are better and those who are worse.
- Frank Krygowski
>
> In my experience, police offices share most misconceptions of the
>
> general public about bicycling. This is even true here in Germany,
>
> where we have a lot more vehicular cycling than the U.S. In addition,
>
> these people rarely are experts for visual perception and perceptual
>
> psychology. They are experts in law enforcement, not researchers.
I heartily agree! Here are two standout incidents I experienced:
1) A brand new bike cop in my village, who for no reason looped around to pass my car by riding facing traffic as I sat at a stop sign. I managed to engage him in very careful conversation about it, and he said that people kept asking him which side of the road to ride on, but that he didn't know the answer!
2) An Idaho State Highway Patrolman who very rudely and aggressively stopped us for riding two abreast, and left of the fog line on the west side of Lolo Pass, which was then a two-lane road. (The fog line was about 6" from the pavement edge.) It took half an hour of very diplomatic conversation, but my daughter and I were able to educate him - using his own copy of the Idaho road laws - that we were legal and riding safely in both cases. (And BTW, I wasn't even riding two abreast; I had simply not yet completed my turn out of the campground drive.)
There are cops who know the rules very, very well. Some are riding friends of mine. But in any profession, there are those who are better and those who are worse.
- Frank Krygowski
Nate Nagel
May 11, 2013, 6:54:14 PM5/11/13
to
hate them and I don't even think they're legal here, but given the fact
that everyone on the road seems to be a moron who's actively trying to
kill his fellow motorists, I can't really say that I blame them. I
won't run one myself, but I do understand where the desire to have one
is coming from.
n
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
John B.
May 13, 2013, 2:10:23 AM5/13/13
to
On Sat, 11 May 2013 19:00:09 +0200, Wolfgang Strobl
<ne...@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca>:
>the much less crowded rural parts of France and Italy. Stroboscopic
>lights are useless and distracting over there, too.
>
>The reasons are somewhat different, but the results are similar. In
>rural areas, whithout noise, a standard taillight like this one
><http://www.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-ruecklicht/d-toplight-xs.html> is
>visible and recognizable as a vehicle taillight at a distance of almost
>two kilometers.
>
>Even if a stroboscopic light where able to extend this distance (it
>isn't), that's unnecessary, there is no need for that. On the other
>hand, it gives less positional and directional information in the near.
>And it may be worse, see below.
>
>I'd prefer an fast overtaking driver on a rural road to judge my
>position on precisely, thank you very much!
>have learned to cut out and mask all that optical information overload
>and concentrate on the relevant part: moving steady lights on the part
>of the road they are driving on. They might see your blinking xmas tree,
>but won't _recognize_ it as a vehicle.
>bicycling on the sidewalk?
>look at some of the examples to learn about some of the effects to
>avoid. While the whole field is quite complex, one conclusion seems to
>be obvious, this isn't something to experiment with in traffice. Far too
>many of these effects are of the kind "it's in view all the time, but
>becomes invisible nevertheless".
>
>A quote from
>
><http://www.nature.com/news/2001/010614/full/news010614-9.html>
>
>"The researchers speculate that this phenomenon could happen in everyday
>life without us noticing it. A highway at night, with drivers staring
>dully at a mass of moving lights, might recreate the kind of conditions
>used in the experiments, says Bonneh, causing objects - the tail lamp of
>the car in the next lane, for example - to temporarily vanish."
After reading your comprehensive post I am appalled that nearly every
"warning light" I've seen used in and around highways are flashing
lights - the slow moving garbage truck has flashing amber lights, the
school busses use flashing amber front and rear when they stop to let
the kids out, the battery operated warning lights at a highway
construction sites are flashing, the big red over heat warning lights
at a particularly dangerous curve near where I stay are flashing red,
Goodness, even the warning lights on my Honda flash. Even the turn
signals on the car flash.
--
Cheers,
John B.
<ne...@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca>:
>
>>On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:50:36 AM UTC-4, Helmut Springer wrote:
>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>Well, no. _I_ wrote the following sentence.
>>On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:50:36 AM UTC-4, Helmut Springer wrote:
>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> >> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe
>>> >> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
>[...]
>>> >> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe
>>> >> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
>
>>> No, really not, believe me. It makes a difference how many vehicles
>>> you have on the streets, so you probably can't compare the US to
>>> crowded Germany.
>
>Perhaps. But I can compare to the crowded parts of Germany to some of
>>> No, really not, believe me. It makes a difference how many vehicles
>>> you have on the streets, so you probably can't compare the US to
>>> crowded Germany.
>
>the much less crowded rural parts of France and Italy. Stroboscopic
>lights are useless and distracting over there, too.
>
>The reasons are somewhat different, but the results are similar. In
>rural areas, whithout noise, a standard taillight like this one
><http://www.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-ruecklicht/d-toplight-xs.html> is
>visible and recognizable as a vehicle taillight at a distance of almost
>two kilometers.
>
>Even if a stroboscopic light where able to extend this distance (it
>isn't), that's unnecessary, there is no need for that. On the other
>hand, it gives less positional and directional information in the near.
>And it may be worse, see below.
>
>I'd prefer an fast overtaking driver on a rural road to judge my
>position on precisely, thank you very much!
>
>
>>I started using front and rear flashing lights because the steady
>>on lights are the ones that get lost in the morass of other brighter
>> lights. The flashing catches the eye.
>
>Well, no. It doesn't, because in that morass of flashing lights drivers
>
>>I started using front and rear flashing lights because the steady
>>on lights are the ones that get lost in the morass of other brighter
>> lights. The flashing catches the eye.
>
>have learned to cut out and mask all that optical information overload
>and concentrate on the relevant part: moving steady lights on the part
>of the road they are driving on. They might see your blinking xmas tree,
>but won't _recognize_ it as a vehicle.
>
>
>>I asked a number of police officers about my flasking lights
>>(strobe in front & simply flashing rear*)- are they too bright
>>and are they distracting to drivers. The replies from every
>>one of the officers was that they wish more bicyclists would
>>use them because it makes them so conspicuous.
>
>May I ask wether these are the same experts who often suggest or enforce
>
>>I asked a number of police officers about my flasking lights
>>(strobe in front & simply flashing rear*)- are they too bright
>>and are they distracting to drivers. The replies from every
>>one of the officers was that they wish more bicyclists would
>>use them because it makes them so conspicuous.
>
>bicycling on the sidewalk?
>
>In my experience, police offices share most misconceptions of the
>general public about bicycling. This is even true here in Germany,
>where we have a lot more vehicular cycling than the U.S. In addition,
>these people rarely are experts for visual perception and perceptual
>psychology. They are experts in law enforcement, not researchers.
>
>Google for "motion-induced blindnes", read the wikipedia article and
>In my experience, police offices share most misconceptions of the
>general public about bicycling. This is even true here in Germany,
>where we have a lot more vehicular cycling than the U.S. In addition,
>these people rarely are experts for visual perception and perceptual
>psychology. They are experts in law enforcement, not researchers.
>
>look at some of the examples to learn about some of the effects to
>avoid. While the whole field is quite complex, one conclusion seems to
>be obvious, this isn't something to experiment with in traffice. Far too
>many of these effects are of the kind "it's in view all the time, but
>becomes invisible nevertheless".
>
>A quote from
>
><http://www.nature.com/news/2001/010614/full/news010614-9.html>
>
>"The researchers speculate that this phenomenon could happen in everyday
>life without us noticing it. A highway at night, with drivers staring
>dully at a mass of moving lights, might recreate the kind of conditions
>used in the experiments, says Bonneh, causing objects - the tail lamp of
>the car in the next lane, for example - to temporarily vanish."
After reading your comprehensive post I am appalled that nearly every
"warning light" I've seen used in and around highways are flashing
lights - the slow moving garbage truck has flashing amber lights, the
school busses use flashing amber front and rear when they stop to let
the kids out, the battery operated warning lights at a highway
construction sites are flashing, the big red over heat warning lights
at a particularly dangerous curve near where I stay are flashing red,
Goodness, even the warning lights on my Honda flash. Even the turn
signals on the car flash.
--
Cheers,
John B.
John B.
May 13, 2013, 2:18:44 AM5/13/13
to
On Sat, 11 May 2013 10:30:27 -0700 (PDT), Dan O <danov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Read up on quotations attributed to Humpty Dumpty :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
wrote:
--
Cheers,
John B.
Dan O
May 13, 2013, 2:20:00 AM5/13/13
to
On May 12, 11:10 pm, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2013 19:00:09 +0200, Wolfgang Strobl
>
>
>
> <ne...@mystrobl.de> wrote:
> >Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pat...@yahoo.ca>:
> On Sat, 11 May 2013 19:00:09 +0200, Wolfgang Strobl
>
>
>
> <ne...@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>
> >>On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:50:36 AM UTC-4, Helmut Springer wrote:
> >>On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:50:36 AM UTC-4, Helmut Springer wrote:
assumes that people operating heavy machinery at speed will accept and
exercise the reponsibility for it.
But they don't. And they won't.
Such is the world. The car culture defends its world - just as the
NRA defends its world - just as...
I say take the world as it comes - it's too big to control the
weather.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=change+in+the+weather+john+fogerty
Andre Jute
May 13, 2013, 2:29:40 AM5/13/13
to
On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:00:09 PM UTC+1, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca>:
>
> Thank you for observing all safety precautions
Wolfgang, may i please send you my flashing lights to dispose of thoughtfully? -- Andre Jute
> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca>:
>
>
>
> >On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:50:36 AM UTC-4, Helmut Springer wrote:
>
> >> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:50:36 AM UTC-4, Helmut Springer wrote:
>
> >> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Well, no. _I_ wrote the following sentence.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> >> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe
>
> >> >> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
>
> [...]
>
> >> >> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
>
>
>
>
> >> No, really not, believe me. It makes a difference how many vehicles
>
> >> you have on the streets, so you probably can't compare the US to
>
> >> crowded Germany.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> No, really not, believe me. It makes a difference how many vehicles
>
> >> you have on the streets, so you probably can't compare the US to
>
> >> crowded Germany.
>
>
>
> Perhaps. But I can compare to the crowded parts of Germany to some of
>
> the much less crowded rural parts of France and Italy. Stroboscopic
>
> lights are useless and distracting over there, too.
>
>
>
> The reasons are somewhat different, but the results are similar. In
>
> rural areas, whithout noise, a standard taillight like this one
>
> <http://www.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-ruecklicht/d-toplight-xs.html> is
>
> visible and recognizable as a vehicle taillight at a distance of almost
>
> two kilometers.
>
>
>
> Even if a stroboscopic light where able to extend this distance (it
>
> isn't), that's unnecessary, there is no need for that. On the other
>
> hand, it gives less positional and directional information in the near.
>
> And it may be worse, see below.
>
>
>
> I'd prefer an fast overtaking driver on a rural road to judge my
>
> position on precisely, thank you very much!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> the much less crowded rural parts of France and Italy. Stroboscopic
>
> lights are useless and distracting over there, too.
>
>
>
> The reasons are somewhat different, but the results are similar. In
>
> rural areas, whithout noise, a standard taillight like this one
>
> <http://www.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-ruecklicht/d-toplight-xs.html> is
>
> visible and recognizable as a vehicle taillight at a distance of almost
>
> two kilometers.
>
>
>
> Even if a stroboscopic light where able to extend this distance (it
>
> isn't), that's unnecessary, there is no need for that. On the other
>
> hand, it gives less positional and directional information in the near.
>
> And it may be worse, see below.
>
>
>
> I'd prefer an fast overtaking driver on a rural road to judge my
>
> position on precisely, thank you very much!
>
>
>
>
>
> >I started using front and rear flashing lights because the steady
>
> >on lights are the ones that get lost in the morass of other brighter
>
> > lights. The flashing catches the eye.
>
>
>
>
> >on lights are the ones that get lost in the morass of other brighter
>
> > lights. The flashing catches the eye.
>
>
>
> Well, no. It doesn't, because in that morass of flashing lights drivers
>
> have learned to cut out and mask all that optical information overload
>
> and concentrate on the relevant part: moving steady lights on the part
>
> of the road they are driving on. They might see your blinking xmas tree,
>
> but won't _recognize_ it as a vehicle.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> have learned to cut out and mask all that optical information overload
>
> and concentrate on the relevant part: moving steady lights on the part
>
> of the road they are driving on. They might see your blinking xmas tree,
>
> but won't _recognize_ it as a vehicle.
>
>
>
>
>
> >I asked a number of police officers about my flasking lights
>
> >(strobe in front & simply flashing rear*)- are they too bright
>
> >and are they distracting to drivers. The replies from every
>
> >one of the officers was that they wish more bicyclists would
>
> >use them because it makes them so conspicuous.
>
>
>
>
> >(strobe in front & simply flashing rear*)- are they too bright
>
> >and are they distracting to drivers. The replies from every
>
> >one of the officers was that they wish more bicyclists would
>
> >use them because it makes them so conspicuous.
>
>
>
> May I ask wether these are the same experts who often suggest or enforce
>
> bicycling on the sidewalk?
>
>
>
> In my experience, police offices share most misconceptions of the
>
> general public about bicycling. This is even true here in Germany,
>
> where we have a lot more vehicular cycling than the U.S. In addition,
>
> these people rarely are experts for visual perception and perceptual
>
> psychology. They are experts in law enforcement, not researchers.
>
>
>
> Google for "motion-induced blindnes", read the wikipedia article and
>
> look at some of the examples to learn about some of the effects to
>
> avoid. While the whole field is quite complex, one conclusion seems to
>
> be obvious, this isn't something to experiment with in traffice. Far too
>
> many of these effects are of the kind "it's in view all the time, but
>
> becomes invisible nevertheless".
>
>
>
> A quote from
>
>
>
> <http://www.nature.com/news/2001/010614/full/news010614-9.html>
>
>
>
> "The researchers speculate that this phenomenon could happen in everyday
>
> life without us noticing it. A highway at night, with drivers staring
>
> dully at a mass of moving lights, might recreate the kind of conditions
>
> used in the experiments, says Bonneh, causing objects - the tail lamp of
>
> the car in the next lane, for example - to temporarily vanish."
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> bicycling on the sidewalk?
>
>
>
> In my experience, police offices share most misconceptions of the
>
> general public about bicycling. This is even true here in Germany,
>
> where we have a lot more vehicular cycling than the U.S. In addition,
>
> these people rarely are experts for visual perception and perceptual
>
> psychology. They are experts in law enforcement, not researchers.
>
>
>
> Google for "motion-induced blindnes", read the wikipedia article and
>
> look at some of the examples to learn about some of the effects to
>
> avoid. While the whole field is quite complex, one conclusion seems to
>
> be obvious, this isn't something to experiment with in traffice. Far too
>
> many of these effects are of the kind "it's in view all the time, but
>
> becomes invisible nevertheless".
>
>
>
> A quote from
>
>
>
> <http://www.nature.com/news/2001/010614/full/news010614-9.html>
>
>
>
> "The researchers speculate that this phenomenon could happen in everyday
>
> life without us noticing it. A highway at night, with drivers staring
>
> dully at a mass of moving lights, might recreate the kind of conditions
>
> used in the experiments, says Bonneh, causing objects - the tail lamp of
>
> the car in the next lane, for example - to temporarily vanish."
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you for observing all safety precautions
Wolfgang, may i please send you my flashing lights to dispose of thoughtfully? -- Andre Jute
John B.
May 13, 2013, 2:32:32 AM5/13/13
to
On Sat, 11 May 2013 10:38:51 -0700 (PDT), Dan O <danov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I'm not sure that was what she had, but it was a very bright flashing
red light and when I asked about it she remarked "that it even has a
laser on the bottom".
But at approximately noon on an overcast day it was the brightest
light of a group of about 8 cyclists.
>I use flashing mode primarily to add some active lighting for
>conspicuity when solid light to see by is not needed, and usually
>always run my taillignt in flashing mode - to exend battery life. My
>taillight, though, has a nice, sedate, regular blinking pattern -
>nothing crazy or blindingly bright either.
>
>I also have a couple of PB SuperFlash taillights. Those things are
>both crazy bright and crazy flashing. I use those as backup (fit in a
>pocket of my messenger bag), and also as supplemental for very poor
>visibility conditions. They get attention.
>
>However, I do worry about what I think is the very real phenomenon of
>target fixation, and that attention getting flash patterns exacerbate
>this.
I'm not sure whether that stands up in actual practice. Practically
every "warning light" I see is flashing. The lights on the garbage
truck, warning and turn lights on the car, police flashers, geeze I
could go on for a while.... wing tip and strobe lights on
aircraft....light houses... :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
wrote:
red light and when I asked about it she remarked "that it even has a
laser on the bottom".
But at approximately noon on an overcast day it was the brightest
light of a group of about 8 cyclists.
>I use flashing mode primarily to add some active lighting for
>conspicuity when solid light to see by is not needed, and usually
>always run my taillignt in flashing mode - to exend battery life. My
>taillight, though, has a nice, sedate, regular blinking pattern -
>nothing crazy or blindingly bright either.
>
>I also have a couple of PB SuperFlash taillights. Those things are
>both crazy bright and crazy flashing. I use those as backup (fit in a
>pocket of my messenger bag), and also as supplemental for very poor
>visibility conditions. They get attention.
>
>However, I do worry about what I think is the very real phenomenon of
>target fixation, and that attention getting flash patterns exacerbate
>this.
every "warning light" I see is flashing. The lights on the garbage
truck, warning and turn lights on the car, police flashers, geeze I
could go on for a while.... wing tip and strobe lights on
aircraft....light houses... :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
Dan O
May 13, 2013, 2:55:24 AM5/13/13
to
On May 12, 11:18 pm, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2013 10:30:27 -0700 (PDT), Dan O <danover...@gmail.com>
What? I thought he just sat up there and fell off. Well, I could
read up, but jeez Frank wants me to read up on traffic, and... how
about you just clue me in.
> On Sat, 11 May 2013 10:30:27 -0700 (PDT), Dan O <danover...@gmail.com>
read up, but jeez Frank wants me to read up on traffic, and... how
about you just clue me in.
James
May 13, 2013, 3:49:08 AM5/13/13
to
>> On Saturday, May 11, 2013 6:50:36 AM UTC-4, Helmut Springer wrote:
>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, no. _I_ wrote the following sentence.
>
>
>>>>> Strobes are illegal here in Germany and AFAIK in most of Europe
>>>>> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
> [...]
>>>>> on civil vehicles, and rightly so.
>
>>> No, really not, believe me. It makes a difference how many vehicles
>>> you have on the streets, so you probably can't compare the US to
>>> crowded Germany.
>
>>> No, really not, believe me. It makes a difference how many vehicles
>>> you have on the streets, so you probably can't compare the US to
>>> crowded Germany.
>
> Perhaps. But I can compare to the crowded parts of Germany to some of
> the much less crowded rural parts of France and Italy. Stroboscopic
> lights are useless and distracting over there, too.
>
> The reasons are somewhat different, but the results are similar. In
> rural areas, whithout noise, a standard taillight like this one
> <http://www.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-ruecklicht/d-toplight-xs.html> is
> visible and recognizable as a vehicle taillight at a distance of almost
> two kilometers.
>
> Even if a stroboscopic light where able to extend this distance (it
> isn't), that's unnecessary, there is no need for that. On the other
> hand, it gives less positional and directional information in the near.
> And it may be worse, see below.
>
> I'd prefer an fast overtaking driver on a rural road to judge my
> position on precisely, thank you very much!
>
>
> the much less crowded rural parts of France and Italy. Stroboscopic
> lights are useless and distracting over there, too.
>
> The reasons are somewhat different, but the results are similar. In
> rural areas, whithout noise, a standard taillight like this one
> <http://www.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-ruecklicht/d-toplight-xs.html> is
> visible and recognizable as a vehicle taillight at a distance of almost
> two kilometers.
>
> Even if a stroboscopic light where able to extend this distance (it
> isn't), that's unnecessary, there is no need for that. On the other
> hand, it gives less positional and directional information in the near.
> And it may be worse, see below.
>
> I'd prefer an fast overtaking driver on a rural road to judge my
> position on precisely, thank you very much!
>
>
>> I started using front and rear flashing lights because the steady
>> on lights are the ones that get lost in the morass of other brighter
>> lights. The flashing catches the eye.
>
>> on lights are the ones that get lost in the morass of other brighter
>> lights. The flashing catches the eye.
>
> Well, no. It doesn't, because in that morass of flashing lights drivers
> have learned to cut out and mask all that optical information overload
> and concentrate on the relevant part: moving steady lights on the part
> of the road they are driving on. They might see your blinking xmas tree,
> but won't _recognize_ it as a vehicle.
>
>
> have learned to cut out and mask all that optical information overload
> and concentrate on the relevant part: moving steady lights on the part
> of the road they are driving on. They might see your blinking xmas tree,
> but won't _recognize_ it as a vehicle.
>
>
>> I asked a number of police officers about my flasking lights
>> (strobe in front & simply flashing rear*)- are they too bright
>> and are they distracting to drivers. The replies from every
>> one of the officers was that they wish more bicyclists would
>> use them because it makes them so conspicuous.
>
>> (strobe in front & simply flashing rear*)- are they too bright
>> and are they distracting to drivers. The replies from every
>> one of the officers was that they wish more bicyclists would
>> use them because it makes them so conspicuous.
>
> May I ask wether these are the same experts who often suggest or enforce
> bicycling on the sidewalk?
>
> In my experience, police offices share most misconceptions of the
> general public about bicycling. This is even true here in Germany,
> where we have a lot more vehicular cycling than the U.S. In addition,
> these people rarely are experts for visual perception and perceptual
> psychology. They are experts in law enforcement, not researchers.
>
> Google for "motion-induced blindnes", read the wikipedia article and
> look at some of the examples to learn about some of the effects to
> avoid. While the whole field is quite complex, one conclusion seems to
> be obvious, this isn't something to experiment with in traffice. Far too
> many of these effects are of the kind "it's in view all the time, but
> becomes invisible nevertheless".
>
> A quote from
>
> <http://www.nature.com/news/2001/010614/full/news010614-9.html>
>
> "The researchers speculate that this phenomenon could happen in everyday
> life without us noticing it. A highway at night, with drivers staring
> dully at a mass of moving lights, might recreate the kind of conditions
> used in the experiments, says Bonneh, causing objects - the tail lamp of
> the car in the next lane, for example - to temporarily vanish."
>
Wow.
> bicycling on the sidewalk?
>
> In my experience, police offices share most misconceptions of the
> general public about bicycling. This is even true here in Germany,
> where we have a lot more vehicular cycling than the U.S. In addition,
> these people rarely are experts for visual perception and perceptual
> psychology. They are experts in law enforcement, not researchers.
>
> Google for "motion-induced blindnes", read the wikipedia article and
> look at some of the examples to learn about some of the effects to
> avoid. While the whole field is quite complex, one conclusion seems to
> be obvious, this isn't something to experiment with in traffice. Far too
> many of these effects are of the kind "it's in view all the time, but
> becomes invisible nevertheless".
>
> A quote from
>
> <http://www.nature.com/news/2001/010614/full/news010614-9.html>
>
> "The researchers speculate that this phenomenon could happen in everyday
> life without us noticing it. A highway at night, with drivers staring
> dully at a mass of moving lights, might recreate the kind of conditions
> used in the experiments, says Bonneh, causing objects - the tail lamp of
> the car in the next lane, for example - to temporarily vanish."
>
Though I am only a lowly vehicle operator, I pick up the flashing light
of a bicyclist remarkably quickly in a swarm of motor vehicles, and
pretty much know it is a bicyclist because of the flashing, instantly.
(It only takes a few more visual clues to be 100% sure).
--
JS
John B.
May 13, 2013, 7:12:55 AM5/13/13
to
On Mon, 13 May 2013 13:10:23 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The big red over head warning, that is :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
wrote:
--
Cheers,
John B.
John B.
May 13, 2013, 7:19:21 AM5/13/13
to
On Sun, 12 May 2013 23:55:24 -0700 (PDT), Dan O <danov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Just for you :-)
The conversation went like this...
'And only one for birthday presents, you know. There's glory for you!'
'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't till I tell
you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'
'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice
objected.
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone,
'it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so
many different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master, that's
all.'
--
Cheers,
John B.
wrote:
The conversation went like this...
'And only one for birthday presents, you know. There's glory for you!'
'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't till I tell
you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'
'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice
objected.
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone,
'it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so
many different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master, that's
all.'
--
Cheers,
John B.
John B.
May 13, 2013, 7:25:55 AM5/13/13
to
On Sun, 12 May 2013 23:20:00 -0700 (PDT), Dan O <danov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Exactly. and that is what I'm trying to accomplish, to call their
attention to the fact that "there is a guy on a bicycle", preferably
before they hit me :-)
>But they don't. And they won't.
>
Somewhere there is a quotation that says something like "don't argue
with a fool, he'll wear you down to their level and than beat you with
experience" and the same thing applies to people that operate things,
whether bicycles, tricycles or Big Black SUV's.
All you can hope for is to [maybe] wake a few of them up.
>Such is the world. The car culture defends its world - just as the
>NRA defends its world - just as...
>
And the bike culture tries to do the same :-)
>I say take the world as it comes - it's too big to control the
>weather.
>
>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=change+in+the+weather+john+fogerty
--
Cheers,
John B.
wrote:
attention to the fact that "there is a guy on a bicycle", preferably
before they hit me :-)
>But they don't. And they won't.
>
with a fool, he'll wear you down to their level and than beat you with
experience" and the same thing applies to people that operate things,
whether bicycles, tricycles or Big Black SUV's.
All you can hope for is to [maybe] wake a few of them up.
>Such is the world. The car culture defends its world - just as the
>NRA defends its world - just as...
>
>I say take the world as it comes - it's too big to control the
>weather.
>
>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=change+in+the+weather+john+fogerty
Cheers,
John B.
T0m $herman
May 13, 2013, 4:09:36 PM5/13/13
to
On 5/13/2013 1:10 AM, John B. wrote:
> After reading your comprehensive post I am appalled that nearly every
> "warning light" I've seen used in and around highways are flashing
> lights - the slow moving garbage truck has flashing amber lights, the
> school busses use flashing amber front and rear when they stop to let
> the kids out,[...]
> After reading your comprehensive post I am appalled that nearly every
> "warning light" I've seen used in and around highways are flashing
> lights - the slow moving garbage truck has flashing amber lights, the
> school busses use flashing amber front and rear when they stop to let
Around here the school buses also have white strobe lights on the roof.
--
T0m $herm@n
0 new messages