Simple Green
Zilla
-Zilla
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary J. Harris" <gharr...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 7:53 AM
Subject: Simple Green & Aluminum Mountain Bikes
> Presented for your consideration:
>
> I've seen a number of postings from mountain bikers that
> use Simple Green to clean their bikes and/or components.
> I myself used it as a general cleaner/degreaser on my bike
> but have discontinued the practice since I came across
> reports that the US Army and Air Force had prohibited its
> use on their aircraft and other equipment. Now you can
> think what you like about the Army and Air Force or even
> the US government in general, but when it comes down to
> taking care of its equipment, they have a pretty good
> record.
>
> The AOPA (Airplane Owners and Operators Association) has
> also come out recommending against its use. Airplanes
> constitue a pretty big investment and they are not cheap
> to repair and maintain. The AOPA is a private group not
> usually given to putting out bad advice to their members.
>
> Aviation-grade aluminum is pretty expensive stuff. The
> paint used in painting aircraft is usually very high
> quality and much more durable than auto paint, and
> probably the paint used to on bicycles. I don't have
> any credentials in metallurgy but I do know that aluminum
> bike frames in particular are touted as being high-grade
> aluminum. Other components are made of aluminum as well,
> like cassettes and handlebars. I also seem to remember
> the words 'aviation grade' used in describing the
> materials used in some bicycle parts.
>
> So between the the US Army, the US Air Force, and the
> AOPA, I think their advice on this issue is worth
> considering. There are enough other products available
> that do as good or better job than Simple Green that this
> should not be a showstopper for anyone.
>
>
> Below are excerpts of some of the inforamtion available
> on the web:
>
> Aircraft Cleaners
>
> Simple Green and other cleaners that are not listed in the
> Technical Manuals are taboo for a very good reason - they
> hurt the metal used to build the machine.
>
> It has been brought to the attention of the U.S. Army
> Aviation Missile Command (AMCOM) Depot Maintenance
> Engineering Team that numerous units are using the
> commercial product SIMPLE GREEN as an aircraft wash.
> STOP! This product has been through Department of Defense
> (DOD) testing and was determined to be highly corrosive
> on aircraft aluminum and also a catalyst for Hydrogen
> Embrittlement in high strength aircraft alloys.
>
> While a highly effective cleaning agent for floors and
> non-aluminum / non-high strength alloy vehicles this
> product is not approved for aviation usage. If your unit
> has been using SIMPLE GREEN on a regular basis, it is
> recommended that a thorough fresh water wash with the
> approved cleaners per the appropriate airframe maintenance
> manuals be accomplished as soon as practicable. This
> should be followed up with a corrosion inspection /
> treatment and application of approved Corrosion
> Prevention Compounds (CPCs).
>
> Mr. Richard Cardinale, corr...@amcom-cc.army.mil
> (361)961-4041, DSN 861-4041
>
> http://safety.army.mil/pages/lessonslearned/simplegreens.html
> ============================
>
> AOPA advised caution with any cleaner and stated that "No
> cleaner should be left on an aircraft for an extended
> period; any cleaner should be promptly and thoroughly
> rinsed off the airframe with water."
>
> It's Simple -- Don't Use This To Clean Aluminum
>
> A well-known aviation magazine this month published a
> feature article on cleaning one's aircraft and getting
> it ready for spring flying. Only one problem -- a product
> the article recommended as safe for aviation use has been
> proven corrosive to aluminum. The product is Simple Green,
> a popular household cleaning liquid. According to the
> magazine's May issue -- which included a photo of Simple
> Green and other products -- the liquid "does an admirable
> job for a fraction of the cost of the aviation cleaners."
> While that may be true as far as it goes, both the U.S.
> Air Force and the U.S. Army have conducted tests of Simple
> Green and strongly urge that it not be used to clean
> aluminum structures. In one test conducted by the U.S.
> Air Force, results from which were published in 1989,
> aluminum alloy samples were immersed in Simple Green for
> a week then removed, cleaned and weighed. The results
> indicated that the approximately 3.5-gram aluminum alloy
> samples experienced a material loss of about 31 milligrams
> in a diluted solution and a whopping 295 milligram loss
> after spending a week in the undiluted liquid. The Air
> Force report summed it up this way: "We do not recommend
> the use of this product on Air Force equipment containing
> aluminum." Good advice, that.
>
>
> Gary (the other Gary from Virginia)
Barry
a week. <G>
Barry
Bluto
> Remind me not to leave my bike soaking in full strength Simple Green for
> a week. <G>
Hey, it looks like a way to reduce the weight of your frame by 8.4%.
Folks pay big money for that!
Chalo Colina
Daniel Connelly
Anyone want to start a business.... we can charge the going rate of $2/gram.... :)
Dan
Arthur Ogawa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary J. Harris" <gharr...@yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike
> > Simple Green and other cleaners that are not listed in the
> > Technical Manuals are taboo for a very good reason - they
> > hurt the metal used to build the machine.
> >
> > Mr. Richard Cardinale, corr...@amcom-cc.army.mil
> > (361)961-4041, DSN 861-4041
It's true that aluminum should not be exposed to strongly alkaline
materials, and the basis of Simple Green's grease-cutting ability is its
high alkalinity---think of it as akin to lye. I would also avoid its use
on titanium parts for a like reason.
In our bike maintenance, we try to minimize the use of solvents for
cleaning. Simple Green is used to clean steel parts (particularly drive
chain and sprockets) and plastic parts (like derailleur pulleys). I
consider it superior to solvent-based parts cleaners because it
emulsifies the grease/dirt, allowing the parts to be rinsed with water,
obtaining a far cleaner part. We reuse the SG, so cleaning an entire
drive train may entail a scant ounce of SG.
You may chose to discontinue your use of SG on the basis of its being
banned from use on aircraft. But please consider the wisdom of your
alternative choice (an orange-oil cleaner, like CitriSolv, may be a good
candidate). At any rate, SG is not contraindicated on steel and plastic parts.
Nontheless, dispose of waste materials in a responsible way, and avoid
contact with skin, especially if you notice a defatting effect.
Art
ajames
wrote:
>Zilla wrote:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gary J. Harris" <gharr...@yahoo.com>
>> Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike
>
>> > Simple Green and other cleaners that are not listed in the
>> > Technical Manuals are taboo for a very good reason - they
>> > hurt the metal used to build the machine.
>> >
>> > Mr. Richard Cardinale, corr...@amcom-cc.army.mil
>> > (361)961-4041, DSN 861-4041
>CitriSolv, may be a good
>candidate). At any rate, SG is not contraindicated on steel and plastic parts.
>Art
most of the common Citrus based cleaners are highly acidic and can
cause the same sorts of problems as simple green... ultimately though
if used on steel drive parts either of those cleaners would be OK as
long as they were rinsed afterwards... for the rest of the bike though
there is nothing wrong with mild dish soap.