>>Not any more expensive than a "good" touring bike. A "good" touring bike
>>will probably set you back about $1500-$2000, . . .
>Balderdash. We just bought a Trek 520 for $650 on a closeout sale. The
I suppose a closeout sale is representative of the expected price one would
expect to pay. Don't close out sales usually come from the merchant
trying to get rid of stock that didn't sell to some poor sucker who
wouldn't pay the full price.
>Trek 520 is often described as a "classic" touring bike. It has all
Classic, in terms of historically memorable, or in less politically
correct terms "out moded", "no longer useful", "antiquated." Yeah I'd want
to take my Dad's *classic* model T across the U.S, but I'd probably get
there faster on my recumbent.
>Deore DX components (including brakes and cranks), and rides like a dream.
>At the same sale, we got a Cannondale T700 for $800. Deore LX drivetrain,
>RX100 cranks, Dia-Compe cranks, very nice frame. Both of these are *great*
>bikes. And just try taking a recumbent on a fire road - an upright tourer
Great bikes (for "wedgie riders"(tm)) if you enjoy riding a
bike where the leather encased saddle is wedged between the cheeks
of your butt giving you that wonderful pain in your backside, and
shoulders and neck, that no one on this group *ever* complains about.
>is set up almost like a mountain bike, and can go many of the same places.
>While you're shopping, also check out the REI Novara Randonee', and the
>Fuji Saratoga. Those are "good" bikes, too. $550-500 on sale.
After you get one these bikes you can join the rest of the "wedgie" riders
who can't seem to find their way from point "A" to point "B" without some
guy's lycra covered posterior 2 feet in front of their face and in case
they should get dropped there is always those day glow socks stuffed inside
those pointy italian shoes that they can site from.
Just for grins, perhaps those people that
have done a century on a recumbent and on a upright could give us the
benefit of their experience. My response is at the bottom of the page,
There are 2 articles, one from Eric House and my response. As the
articles indicate, we happened to be riding on foothill at the
same time.
>Ken Presting "Hmph. Recumbent propaganda."
Morris "There is no need for recumbent xenophobia" Bisted
###### old articles about recumbents #####################
From netcomsv!decwrl!olivea!apple.com!apple.com!not-for-mail Thu Jun 10 10:16:15 PDT 1993
Article: 2148 of rec.bicycles.rides
Xref: netcom.com rec.bicycles.rides:2148 rec.bicycles.misc:5301
Path: netcom.com!netcomsv!decwrl!olivea!apple.com!apple.com!not-for-mail
From: eho...@apple.com (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides,rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: recumbent diary, day 37
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.misc
Date: 9 Jun 1993 10:41:14 -0700
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, California
Lines: 74
Distribution: na
Message-ID: <1v57bq$...@apple.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: apple.com
Keywords: recumbent
(That's 37 days since I started riding a borrowed Tour Easy. My hand
isn't broken any more, so that part's irrelevant. :-)
I'm starting to ride an upright again, and so I tend to go through
swings in opinion on which is better for what. For instance, on Monday
I rode said upright up Highway 9 (a 7-mile, 2300' foot climb) at an
average speed above 12, then went back and did it on the 'bent the next
day at closer to 8 mph. I drew the obvious conclusion, forgetting that
the first time I'd been fresh and doing it as a time trial to determine
how much climbing speed I'd lost to my injury. The second time I'd been
fried from the previous day, and was with a slower friend to boot. This
bike comparision stuff ain't no science.
Last night things went the opposite way. I was headed home on the 'bent
when I spotted a similar, low-slung vehicle in the bike lane ahead. So
I chased, and with some difficulty caught a SWB whose rider was sporting
tennis shoes and baggy shorts. "How's that thing on hills?" was his
greeting. Had I been quicker I'd have responded along the lines of "Don't
you worry that cars can't see you?" but we'd already shared the knowledge
that we were part of some special minority that's always getting asked the
same silly questions (silly only for their too-frequent repetition, but
silly just the same.)
We rode together along Foothill (wide, clean bike laned expressway) and
talked 'bents. Moe pointed out what I hadn't noticed for all my hurry
to get fast: you've got a better view of your surroundings from the
reclining position. He called it the "panorama." He also said it takes
a lot longer than I'd been told to develop full strength in the muscles
'bent riding depends on, and that the climbing speed would come.
A couple of upright riders we'd passed caught up at a light and asked
another FAQ. How many chains did you have to buy for a 'bent? I didn't
know, but Moe said it takes three. Then a couple of guys went zipping
by on aero bars. "Normally I wouldn't let that pass," says Moe, whose
disk rear wheel isn't just for show. I wouldn't either, so we jump as
best as 'bents can and give chase. We match their speed, but can't close
the gap until the next light.
Now we're part of a group of about 8 bikes that just cruise along from
light to light. Eventually Moe leaves the expressway, and then we reach
a long stretch without lights. The faster of the guys on aerobars and I
pull each other along ahead of the rest, and after I've taken one too-long
pull Mr. Tri complements me on the size of the draft coming off the back
of my bike. He gets a bit ahead, and I struggle not to lose ground, but
on the final stretch of road, a bit of a rise, I surge ahead before making
my turn. From the last look I got of him, he was pretty fried too.
All of this is leading me to a number of conclusions. First, I don't
think I've given myself a fair chance to develop full speed on the 'bent.
What speed I have on an upright I developed first by commuting along this
same road and chasing anything faster than I was, and then by riding with
racers on occasion to remind myself of how fast I should be going. This
second aspect of training has been missing from my recumbent experience.
If I had more encounters like yesterday's my speed would start to climb.
Second, 'bent riders have a subculture quite different from whatever
you'd call the collective experience of upright racers and wannabes I tend
to associate with. From what little I've seen I'd say it's worth
experiencing. That is, the few rides I've done with 'bent riders have been
fun just for the social aspect alone. I'm not saying one is better, but
that as with most things broadening one's horizons is great. Certainly
the meeting new people aspect of my 'bent experience has been great (just
don't ask if it was worth a broken hand :-).
One final thing: if anyone has been reading this series hoping to get the
final word on whether 'bents or uprights are better, I'm afraid I'm going
to wind up disappointing you. I'd reach a conclusion if I could, but I
don't think that's going to be possible. I'm not going to be buying a
'bent anytime soon, but that's because of storage and money issues rather
than for lack of desire. I'd certainly get one before I'd get an ATB.
--
*************************************************************************** *
Eric House "My employer doesn't share its opinions with
RAAM in '93! me, so I can share only mine with you"
From moe Fri Jun 11 19:41:11 PDT 1993
Article: 5362 of rec.bicycles.misc
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Path: netcom.com!moe
From: m...@netcom.com (Morris Bisted)
Subject: Re: recumbent diary, day 37
Message-ID: <moeC8F6t6....@netcom.com>
Keywords: recumbent
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <1v57bq$...@apple.com>
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 19:15:05 GMT
In article <1v57bq$
...@apple.com> eho
...@apple.com (Eric House) writes:
>(That's 37 days since I started riding a borrowed Tour Easy. My hand
>We rode together along Foothill (wide, clean bike laned expressway) and
>talked 'bents. Moe pointed out what I hadn't noticed for all my hurry
>to get fast: you've got a better view of your surroundings from the
>reclining position. He called it the "panorama." He also said it takes
I've now ridden for 3 years on a recumbent, and had about 6 or 7 hard
core years on a non-recumbent. The panorama is one of the biggest
benefits. I look straight out on the road, not down over a wheel and
thus I get the view of the entire country side, and I can do that
in a (42 -> 14) or (42 -> 13) for hours (You don't have to worry
about torquing the chain when it is 3 times as long as normal).
While riding uprights, I'd draft with a bunch of friends do 50-60
miles in ~3 hours and have no idea what I'd seen because I was always
concerned about pulling hard when I was at the front or staying in
the envelope when at the back (I knew a lot about the wheel on the guy
I was following though.)I can get those kind of speeds or
darn close to it on my recumbent and enjoy the surroundings. It
was a big win for me.
I ride a "short wheel" base which means that
my front chain ring is out in front of my front wheel(which is at
about my knees), most people don't take kindly to my peddles
in their rotation, being on both sides of their rear wheel. It
leaves one with images of the chariot scene in Ben Hur, so I don't
take a lot of the drafting opportunities I have.
You have to ride differently on a recumbent, it only takes a few
times being stuck at a stop light before your remember always
shift down. i.e. on a recumbent you don't push off with your
foot, shift your weight to the high pedal and step down to get going.
You lift up your foot and press the pedal, there is no forward motion except
for that coming from the pedals. .
There is also no "bunny hopping" of cattle gaurds and train tracks. I
could hop a cattle gaurd or track at speed and never lose any speed, on
a recumbent you have to slow down.
>a lot longer than I'd been told to develop full strength in the muscles
>'bent riding depends on, and that the climbing speed would come.
>A couple of upright riders we'd passed caught up at a light and asked
>another FAQ. How many chains did you have to buy for a 'bent? I didn't
>know, but Moe said it takes three. Then a couple of guys went zipping
>by on aero bars. "Normally I wouldn't let that pass," says Moe, whose
>disk rear wheel isn't just for show. I wouldn't either, so we jump as
>best as 'bents can and give chase. We match their speed, but can't close
Eric, did a lot better job than I did at jumping, for me It was a
high rolling resistance day. Most of the time, I have no problem "jumping"
out, I can usually catch/pass a person or a pack if I want/need to.
Once I got used to my recumbent, I had no problems with sprints.
As far as hills, I like it. I push against the pedals, which push
be back into a seat, the seat acts like a wall and
therefore I get a lot more push per rotation. My friend who did
the Sequoia century (100 miles) got his recumbent about 6 months
ago ( rode across america, and canada on a standard) pushed up highway 9 and
never had any of the uprights he was passing ask him how his
Ryan "did on hills". That has been my experience too. You
can't get out of the saddle, but it hasn't been a problem for
me. I'd say once you get your "recumbent legs" (for the people that
I talk with, it's about 3 to 6 months), it's probably a
"wash" on relative speed up hills.
>Second, 'bent riders have a subculture quite different from whatever
>you'd call the collective experience of upright racers and wannabes I tend
>to associate with. From what little I've seen I'd say it's worth
>experiencing. That is, the few rides I've done with 'bent riders have been
>fun just for the social aspect alone. I'm not saying one is better, but
One advantage that often is overlooked until you get back on
a standard, is that I don't have to get my backside in shape
for those long rides. My seat is just like sitting in desk
chair. I ride 4 or 5 hours get off the seat, and I walk normally,
I don't have any of that ache that comes from spending 4 hours
on a standard saddle that I used to have.
FYI not all recumbents are the same. There are short and long
wheel bases and they ride significantly different as I'm sure you
can imagine. The short wheel base is much quicker/squirrely and
maneuverable. Long wheel bases give you a more stable feel, but they
also tend to be heavier than the short wheel base.
Obviously these are generalizations so your mileage may vary.
I just purchased my second recumbent after researching for about
6 months, I finally settled on one built by guy in Santa Rosa
(Dave Holuzek), that met about 95% of my requirements. I rode about
16 of the different recumbants offered on the commercial market,
all had different advantages to offer potential users.
Morris (m...@netcom.com)
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