Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?
Tºm Shermªn °_°
"THE CYCLIST WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 NEAR THE TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION.
V1 WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 APPROACHING THE CYCLIST FROM THE REAR. THE
FRONT OF V1 COLLIDED WITH THE REAR OF THE BICYCLE. THE IMPACT THREW THE
CYCLIST INTO THE AIR BEFORE LANDING ON THE HOOD OF V1 AND ONTO THE
WINDSHIELD. V1 CONTINUED FOR A FEW FEET BEFORE COMING TO A STOP. THE
CYCLIST WAS THEN THROWN TO THE ASPHALT WHEN V1 STOPPED. THE DRIVER OF
V1 EXITED THE VEHICLE AND OBSERVED THE CYCLIST WHILE TALKING ON THE
PHONE. D1 THEN REENTERED HER VEHICLE AND RAN THE CYCLIST OVER AGAIN
BEFORE BEING FORCED FROM HER VEHICLE BY WITNESSES. V1 CAME TO FINAL
REST FACING WEST IN THE WEST BOUND LANE ON MS 50 JUST METERS WEST OF THE
TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION. THE CYCLIST CAME TO FINAL REST NEAR THE
RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF V1."
Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit mayhem
with her vehicle?
<http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919>
--
T榦 Sherm泄 - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
AMuzi
Any competent defense attorney will tell the jury his client
'didn't see the cyclist' on that second attempt.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Edward Dolan
news:it3d8f$tjh$1...@dont-email.me...
Andrew, you have got it exactly right. Any cyclist who thinks he has a right
to the road and can "take the lane" is asking for nothing but trouble sooner
or later.
Some 35 years ago I thought as a cyclist I had a right to the road, but what
good is that when confronted with motor vehicles and an uncaring public.
Find safe roads to ride with shoulders. Failing that, stay in town and ride
on safe residential streets. The motorist will always claim that he did not
see the cyclist and will get off on that basis.
--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Winston
(...)
> Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit mayhem
> with her vehicle?
>
> <http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919>
We may never know the whole story.
It could be that Norton is guilty, evil, mean and vicious and should
be locked away for the rest of her life after surrendering all her
assets towards medical bills.
Or, it could be that she suffers from a brain tumor that caused
her to do something that she would not have done ever, if she
had been in control.
__________________________
I remember seeing a rear bumper on a bicycle many
years ago. I thought it looked kinda whimpy but now I
see the wisdom of it. I don't know if it would give me
a better chance of surviving when a car eventually does
smack me in the rear, but it might.
--Winston
Frank Krygowski
> Tºm Shermªn °_° > wrote:
>
> (...)
>
> > Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit mayhem
> > with her vehicle?
>
> > <http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919>
>
> We may never know the whole story.
>
> It could be that Norton is guilty, evil, mean and vicious and should
> be locked away for the rest of her life after surrendering all her
> assets towards medical bills.
>
> Or, it could be that she suffers from a brain tumor that caused
> her to do something that she would not have done ever, if she
> had been in control.
Regardless, I think she should never be allowed to operate a motor
vehicle again. The same should be true of anyone else who seriously
injures someone while operating a motor vehicle, no matter the excuse.
I recognize that in some cases, such a policy may not be perfectly
just toward the driver. However, in most cases at present, the
situation is not at all just toward the injured party. It's time for
the pendulum to swing the other way.
- Frank Krygowski
Tºm Shermªn °_°
> T�m Sherm�n �_� > wrote:
>
> (...)
>
>> Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit mayhem
>> with her vehicle?
>>
>> <http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919>
>
> We may never know the whole story.
>
> It could be that Norton is guilty, evil, mean and vicious and should
> be locked away for the rest of her life after surrendering all her
> assets towards medical bills.
>
> Or, it could be that she suffers from a brain tumor that caused
> her to do something that she would not have done ever, if she
> had been in control.
In that case she belongs in a mental institution to protect the public,
not behind the wheel of a motor vehicle.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
Tºm Shermªn °_°
> On Jun 12, 9:52�pm, Winston<Wins...@BigBrother.net> wrote:
This case seems particularly egregious. The DA should have her locked
up on attempted murder charges, with appropriately high bail set by a
judge. If Norton is not competent to stand trial, at least protect the
public from her while that is determined by the legal system.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
AMuzi
How about 24 months in you mommy's luxury condo in Miami
after murdering two pedestrians?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-levin-hit-and-run-2-20110603,0,6859365.story
That's what passes today for a 'hanging judge'.
Tºm Shermªn °_°
> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On Jun 12, 9:52 pm, Winston <Wins...@BigBrother.net> wrote:
Of such class based injustices are revolutions bred.
Time to bring it back?
<http://jspivey.wikispaces.com/file/view/medieval-guillotine-4800.jpg/31594105/medieval-guillotine-4800.jpg>
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
>I remember seeing a rear bumper on a bicycle many
>years ago. I thought it looked kinda whimpy but now I
>see the wisdom of it. I don't know if it would give me
>a better chance of surviving when a car eventually does
>smack me in the rear, but it might.
>--Winston
I doubt if there is any bolt-on bicycle accessory that will do much to
improve survivability in the event of a rear end collision with an
automobile. However, I've considered attaching a few paint balls to
the rear fender or bike rack to mark the vehicle that hits me. At
least the perpetrator and the exact location of the collision will be
easily identifiable.
<http://www.paintballimpact.com/special-effects/booby-traps.html>
<http://www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/paintballcomposition.html>
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Winston
(...)
> At least the perpetrator and the exact location of the
> collision will be easily identifiable.
> <http://www.paintballimpact.com/special-effects/booby-traps.html>
> <http://www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/paintballcomposition.html>
Cool!
Fluorescent dye that shows up only under ultraviolet
would work nicely.
Perhaps a two-part paintball with visible and
invisible paint?
--Winston
kolldata
motorcyclists ( post Honda), bicyclists, coal miners.....
uhhhh see State Farm ?
lee.watkins
predominant right-wing conservative
perspective in the USA, particularly Christian Conservatism. Violence
directed towards perceived
lower tiers without conscience, combined with a kiss-up attitude
towards authority figures.
The driver assumes anyone else would do the same thing given the
opportunity. The perception is
magnified by the metaphor that the car did the violence on the
drivers' behalf (absolution),
and the cyclists' lack of official operators credentials.
The language used in newspaper articles and local broadcast TV/radio
to describe automobile crashes is intended to reinforce the
absolution, in part because automobile manufactures/retailers are the
primary (and sometimes only) advertising revenue source.
The lack of enforcement of harsh fines or jail time for this behavior
removes any doubt that this behavior is sanctioned. This is driven by
conservative politics.
the lack of cyclist licensing and registration/plates credentials
informs an authoritarian that the cyclist does not belong
on the road and thus should be punished for getting in the way, or
even just for fun.
I think the best way to counter all this is to make cycling more
Authoritarian friendly. An vigorous licensing and registration
bureaucracy. Drum up patriotic and religious associations with the
bicycle. The flag, cross, and bible imagery! Build segregated
bikeways like in Europe, protected with bollards and make it downright
christian and patriotic.
Logically Christian conservatives have every supposed moral, ethical,
and principled reason to be all about bikes, but modern conservatives
have no conscience. They really don't - at least not since
Goldwater! You have to give them increasingly authoritarian
reasons. and that can be done and will work like a charm.
On Jun 12, 5:01 pm, Tºm Shermªn °_° <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net"> wrote:
> Police report:
>
> "THE CYCLIST WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 NEAR THE TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION.
> V1 WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 APPROACHING THE CYCLIST FROM THE REAR. THE
> FRONT OF V1 COLLIDED WITH THE REAR OF THE BICYCLE. THE IMPACT THREW THE
> CYCLIST INTO THE AIR BEFORE LANDING ON THE HOOD OF V1 AND ONTO THE
> WINDSHIELD. V1 CONTINUED FOR A FEW FEET BEFORE COMING TO A STOP. THE
> CYCLIST WAS THEN THROWN TO THE ASPHALT WHEN V1 STOPPED. THE DRIVER OF
> V1 EXITED THE VEHICLE AND OBSERVED THE CYCLIST WHILE TALKING ON THE
> PHONE. D1 THEN REENTERED HER VEHICLE AND RAN THE CYCLIST OVER AGAIN
> BEFORE BEING FORCED FROM HER VEHICLE BY WITNESSES. V1 CAME TO FINAL
> REST FACING WEST IN THE WEST BOUND LANE ON MS 50 JUST METERS WEST OF THE
> TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION. THE CYCLIST CAME TO FINAL REST NEAR THE
> RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF V1."
>
> See
> <http://www.accidentin.com/article3079581/friends_family_of_accident_v...>.
>
> Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit mayhem
> with her vehicle?
>
> <http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919>
>
> --
> Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
Frank Krygowski
>
> NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use
> a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. End of story.
Absolutely.
Freedom of association and freedom to travel are rights. But even
they can be revoked (via imprisonment) when a person is convicted of a
crime.
Freedom to operate a motor vehicle is a privilege. There should be a
much lower standard for its revocation.
>
> If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident"
> they'd take the necessary care to avoid them.
Correct. The current "I might scratch my paint job" would be replaced
by "I might never drive again." It would make a huge - and
appropriate - difference.
- Frank Krygowski
James
While I agree with harsher penalties for those who have clearly shown
they lack the necessary mental attitude to drive safely, as far as I can
recall, every single motor vehicle crash story I have heard reported
here, has the *vehicle* doing something wrong.
"A 16 YEAR-OLD girl was in the driver's seat in a horrific crash that
killed two men and left two other passengers critically injured in
north-west Victoria this weekend.
The girl, who is also in a serious condition, was travelling with four
male friends to to a ''psytrance'' dance party in the Pyrenees Ranges,
when the vehicle smashed through a barrier and lodged in a tree. The
force of the crash left the car hanging nearly two metres off the ground.
The car, a Land Rover Discovery four-wheel-drive, was towing a trailer
loaded with camping equipment when it crashed at Burrumbeet, about 20
kilometres west of Ballarat.
It was unclear if the girl, from St Kilda, was a learner driver, who are
banned from towing caravans or trailers.
Ballarat traffic branch Acting Sergeant Travis Johnson confirmed a girl,
the only female in the car, was at the wheel of the car. ''I don't know
if she was a learner,'' he said.
"
Read more:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/two-men-killed-in-horror-crash-20110611-1fya3.html
Bad, bad vehicle. How dare it smash through a barrier and lodge in a tree.
Also note that "The car ... was towing a trailer ... when it crashed ..."
Why wasn't it reported that a learner driver, illegally drove a 4WD
towing a trailer, across to the wrong side of the road, through a
barrier, and into a tree?
I can sort of see what lee.watkins is on about, not that it is right.
--
JS.
AMuzi
Car crashes have numerous otherworldly causes. Bad Tree
jumps out at drunk driver, Evil Car leaves pavement, The
Lure of Texting, Meddlesome GPS Alert, etc.
Sometimes it's caused by a sighting of The Other Woman:
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/13/estranged-wife-with-kids-in-car-rams-into-husbands-car/?utm_source=home&utm_medium=dl&utm_campaign=flood-threat-continues
http://preview.tinyurl.com/6db4jsd
Too bad nothing can be done about any of those things.
kolldata
James
> Car crashes have numerous otherworldly causes. Bad Tree jumps out at
> drunk driver, Evil Car leaves pavement, The Lure of Texting, Meddlesome
> GPS Alert, etc.
>
> Sometimes it's caused by a sighting of The Other Woman:
> http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/13/estranged-wife-with-kids-in-car-rams-into-husbands-car/?utm_source=home&utm_medium=dl&utm_campaign=flood-threat-continues
>
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/6db4jsd
>
> Too bad nothing can be done about any of those things.
It is very difficult to prevent these things happening the first time, I
agree. It is easy to prevent repeat offenses.
--
JS.
Tºm Shermªn °_°
> [...]
> "A 16 YEAR-OLD girl was in the driver's seat in a horrific crash that
> killed two men and left two other passengers critically injured in
> north-west Victoria this weekend.
>
> The girl, who is also in a serious condition, was travelling with four
> male friends to to a ''psytrance'' dance party in the Pyrenees Ranges,
> when the vehicle smashed through a barrier and lodged in a tree. The
> force of the crash left the car hanging nearly two metres off the ground.
>
> The car, a Land Rover Discovery four-wheel-drive, was towing a trailer
> loaded with camping equipment when it crashed at Burrumbeet, about 20
If she is similar to most 16-year old girls, she has no idea that towing
should *not* be considered routine driving.
Dan O
<snip>
> What we need are proper penalties for abuse of the privilege of motor
> vehicle use.
> Heavy fines for the responsible party in any collision - and if they
> can't decide which party that was, the fine should be split between
> them, not ignored. The full cost of the clear up and medical
> treatment necessary should be charged to their insurance.
> Any injury should result in imprisonment, the duration depending on
> the severity - why should the perpetrator recover any more quickly
> than their victim? Permanent disablement or death should equal life
> imprisonment.
> NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use
> a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. End of story.
>
Okay, but "any doubt" in *whose* mind?
I repeat, the vagaries of human nature in all its splendor abound at
the controls of traffic. (Whjee)
> If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident"
> they'd take the necessary care to avoid them.
>
Absolutely right! It's about time.
<snip>
Jay Beattie
> Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> considered Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:15:40
> -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jun 14, 12:16 pm, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
>
> ><snip>
>
> >> What we need are proper penalties for abuse of the privilege of motor
> >> vehicle use.
> >> Heavy fines for the responsible party in any collision - and if they
> >> can't decide which party that was, the fine should be split between
> >> them, not ignored. The full cost of the clear up and medical
> >> treatment necessary should be charged to their insurance.
> >> Any injury should result in imprisonment, the duration depending on
> >> the severity - why should the perpetrator recover any more quickly
> >> than their victim? Permanent disablement or death should equal life
> >> imprisonment.
> >> NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use
> >> a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. End of story.
>
> >Okay, but "any doubt" in *whose* mind?
>
> entirely attributed to another party.
>
> >I repeat, the vagaries of human nature in all its splendor abound at
> >the controls of traffic. (Whjee)
>
> >> If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident"
> >> they'd take the necessary care to avoid them.
>
> >Absolutely right! It's about time.
>
> would get used to the idea of alternatives to driving, and it would be
> economically viable to provide those alternatives.
No, they would get used to driving without a license -- and without
insurance.
The accident described in the original post involved an aparent
psychopathic driver. Most non-psychopathic drivers want to avoid
accidents and do not need further incentive -- e.g., the threat of
license suspension or revocation for an "accident." Psychopaths don't
care and are probably driving without a license anyway.
The people who do the most damage are rarely those who respond to
bland punishments.
-- Jay Beattie.
Ronko
family.me.uk says...
>
>
>"lee.watkins" <lee.w...@gmail.com> considered Tue, 14 Jun 2011
>What we need are proper penalties for abuse of the privilege of motor
>vehicle use.
>Heavy fines for the responsible party in any collision - and if they
>can't decide which party that was, the fine should be split between
>them, not ignored. The full cost of the clear up and medical
>treatment necessary should be charged to their insurance.
>Any injury should result in imprisonment, the duration depending on
>the severity - why should the perpetrator recover any more quickly
>than their victim? Permanent disablement or death should equal life
>imprisonment.
>NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use
>a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. End of story.
>
>they'd take the necessary care to avoid them.
>>
him/her means the car wins every time. Unfortuneatly that's the nature of
the beast and drivers, if cited at all, are only cited for driving erratically or
not staying in the lane or some other only citable offense. The cyclist is left
with serious or fatal injuries and if fortuneate enough to get hit by a driver
with adequate resources or insurance, can gain some financial recourse in
civil court.
However, this case of the driver hitting the cyclist a second time is an
entirely different matter. If intent of the driver's part can be shown, this
probably warrants assault with a deadly weapon or attempted
manslaughter/murder type of charge. I would like to see that. Local politics
and attitude toward bicyclists usually plays a critical part in how the
offender is charged, if at all.
Michael Press
<d51c8bd1-a7e7-4f20...@x38g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
Jay Beattie <jbea...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
Hear! Hear!
--
Michael Press
AMuzi
OK, good argument.
But there are just so damned many psychopaths out there:
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/driver-hits-kills-girl-on-bike-then-speeds-off/?utm_source=home&utm_medium=dl&utm_campaign=hit-and-run-kills-girl
http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vcvgxv
As a daily newspaper reader, it's overwhelming.
No, I do not have an answer to the problem.
AMuzi
'every time' is categorical.
My employee ran a red light on his bicycle, smashed a car
panel with his shoulder and was both cited and billed for
the damage. No injuries to shoulder or bicycle.
I can't imagine how the second battery could be anything but
'with intent'. We'll see how the jury parses it.
Frank Krygowski
There's not much you can do with psychopaths, AFAIK. They're
certainly a problem. But they're rare.
Most damage to cyclists (and peds) is done by much more ordinary
people, who are just insufficiently careful. Changes in liability
laws and penalties can cause very significant improvements in their
behavior.
As mentioned before, friends in Zurich described how walking in that
city was transformed for the better after a strict liability law went
into effect on motorists. And those laws are probably responsible for
much of the greater safety (for both pedestrians and cyclists) in
several northern European countries.
By contrast, the US laws seem to say "You can drive a car no matter
who you are or what you've done." That's messed up.
- Frank Krygowski
Andre Jute
> But there are just so damned many psychopaths out there:http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/driver-hits-kills-girl-on-bike...
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vcvgxv
On Professor Hare's widely used scale, about one in a 100 Americans is
a psychopath, including the majority of those in prison and almost
everyone on death row.
The equivalent number for Britain is one in 200, half the density of
psychopaths compared to the States.
So a bicyclist doesn't have to be on a busy road very long to be in
close proximity to a psychopath in charge of a moving lethal weapon.
Whatever the precise number of psychopaths in any location, it is too
high!
Andre Jute
Visit Andre's books
http://coolmainpress.com/andrejute.html
Andre Jute
> There's not much you can do with psychopaths, AFAIK. They're
> certainly a problem. But they're rare.
Nonsense. On a widely used scale 1 in every 100 Americans is a
psychopath. Several pass you on street every hour you cycle, Frank.
That said, I actually agree with the rest of what Frank said. On the
rare occasion when I've experienced deliberately aggressive behavior
from motorists it has been from a testosterone of young or youngish
men in a car.
> Most damage to cyclists (and peds) is done by much more ordinary
> people, who are just insufficiently careful. Changes in liability
> laws and penalties can cause very significant improvements in their
> behavior.
>
> As mentioned before, friends in Zurich described how walking in that
> city was transformed for the better after a strict liability law went
> into effect on motorists. And those laws are probably responsible for
> much of the greater safety (for both pedestrians and cyclists) in
> several northern European countries.
>
> By contrast, the US laws seem to say "You can drive a car no matter
> who you are or what you've done." That's messed up.
Chalo made a really good point not too long ago, the implications of
which we haven't yet assimilated. He pointed out that the bicyclist is
on the road by natural right, without having to be licensed, whereas
the motorist is on the road as a privilege, by license from the
community, and, in consideration of being in charge of overwhelming
force, in fact a lethal weapon, should behave accordingly.
It is the principle on which Dutch road law operates, and all it takes
is a stricter or just a more even-handed application of existing laws
of liability.
Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Bicycles at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html
Tºm Shermªn °_°
This was very common in the 'hood in Milwaukee where I used to work.
Many of the vehicles were also unregistered and/or stolen.
The paint striped bicycle lanes were often used for passing on the right
by motorists going 20-30 mph over the speed limit.
Tºm Shermªn °_°
> On Jun 15, 8:58�pm, AMuzi<a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> But there are just so damned many psychopaths out there:http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/driver-hits-kills-girl-on-bike...
>>
>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vcvgxv
>
> On Professor Hare's widely used scale, about one in a 100 Americans is
> a psychopath, including the majority of those in prison and almost
> everyone on death row.
Before the death penalty was revoked in Illinois, almost half of those
on death row had their convictions overturned based on DNA evidence that
was not available [1], and/or evidence that had been illegally
suppressed by the police and/or prosecution.
The latter makes one wonder who the real psychopaths are.
[1] Strictly speaking, the evidence was available, but the testing
methods were not.
James
> 3500 pound car protecting the motorist vs cyclist with no metal around
> him/her means the car wins every time.
Yes mostly, but not always.
I went to pick up my wife's car from having the exhaust fixed. I jumped
on the MTB, and as it was only a couple of kms down the road, I rolled
along the footpath to avoid having to cross a busy narrow road twice for
the sake of about 0.5km. I was coasting along, watching driveways
intently, when a dude in his car appeared from behind some big bushes.
He was driving so fast, he didn't have time to stop before he had
crossed the footpath and the front wheels were almost in the gutter.
I jammed on the brakes (my hands were already on the levers), and slid
to a halt as my right knee connected with the front left quarter panel.
Me and my bike were fine. His car cost him over $1000 to repair. He
threatened to take me to court (I shouldn't have been riding on the
footpath, but by the same token, he failed to give way to pedestrian
traffic when he crossed the footpath), but it never came to that. I
think he realised it was going to cost him more than it was worth.
So, I chalked up a win that day.
--
JS.
Tºm Shermªn °_°
> On Jun 15, 9:16�pm, Frank Krygowski<frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There's not much you can do with psychopaths, AFAIK. �They're
>> certainly a problem. �But they're rare.
>
> Nonsense. On a widely used scale 1 in every 100 Americans is a
> psychopath. Several pass you on street every hour you cycle, Frank.
>
> That said, I actually agree with the rest of what Frank said. On the
> rare occasion when I've experienced deliberately aggressive behavior
> from motorists it has been from a testosterone of young or youngish
While psychopaths do not have empathy for others, many *do* care about
themselves, and therefore will be deterred from wrongful actions, unless
they find the probability of getting away with harming others to be high.
Therefore, the proportion of motorists who would murder a cyclist is
much lower than 1 in 100, or there would be tens of thousands of cyclist
deaths per year (in the US), rather than 7 or 8 hundred.
Tºm Shermªn °_°
Assuming the driver is actually charged with something. Failure to
yield and leaving the scene of the accident should be almost automatic
convictions, but the driver has yet to be charged, which makes one
wonder if there will be any charges.
Chalo
>
> Jay Beattie wrote:
> >
> > Phil W Lee wrote:
> >>
> >> If licence suspensions and/or revocations were used more often, people
> >> would get used to the idea of alternatives to driving, and it would be
> >> economically viable to provide those alternatives.
> >
> > No, they would get used to driving without a license -- and without
> > insurance.
> >
> > The accident described in the original post involved an aparent
> > psychopathic driver. Most non-psychopathic drivers want to avoid
> > accidents and do not need further incentive -- e.g., the threat of
> > license suspension or revocation for an "accident." Psychopaths don't
> > care and are probably driving without a license anyway.
>
> > The people who do the most damage are rarely those who respond to
> > bland punishments.
>
>
> But there are just so damned many psychopaths out there:
>
> As a daily newspaper reader, it's overwhelming.
> No, I do not have an answer to the problem.
My suggestion is a simple one: Make leaving the scene equal to
intent, legally speaking. That means a fender bender turns into
criminal mischief, bumping a ped turns into assault, crashing a
cyclist equals aggravated assault, and killing someone with your car
becomes second degree murder, if you leave the scene.
As it is, there's no disincentive to leave the scene, because the
consequences are rarely worse if you are caught than if you stay on
the scene-- and you might not get caught at all.
I had to make a (rare) jaunt out to suburban freeway land this
afternoon. All I can say is it's no wonder those people are dead
inside. We can win our lives back, but first we have to get rid of
the fucking cars. Making the harm people do with cars morally and
legally equivalent to the same harm if they did it with a chainsaw is
a step in the right direction. And taking people out of cars--
permanently-- who have proven themselves to be unfit to the task of
driving is another.
Chalo
Dan O
Really, we have to just choke them down to a more manageable lethal
pain in the ass. Fuel prices and road space are the way.
Dan O
Sweet :-)
<snipped this part>
Dan O
> On Jun 15, 8:58 pm, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > But there are just so damned many psychopaths out there:http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/driver-hits-kills-girl-on-bike...
>
> >http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vcvgxv
>
> On Professor Hare's widely used scale, about one in a 100 Americans is
he meant the doozys ;-)
>, including the majority of those in prison and almost
> everyone on death row.
>
no shit - but not all of them
Jay Beattie
There will always be a car equivalent. It used to be horses. People
used to get stomped by horses all the time. Horse traffic was
terrible in big cities. http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/images/2008/08/05/horse_traffic.jpg
Those horse-drawn carriage people were dead inside. Rage, rage against
the horses! The good part about horses was that you didn't have to
buy feed from the Middle East -- or even Canada. Cheap repairs, too,
and in tough times, you could eat them. No part of my car is edible,
AFAIK.
-- Jay Beattie.
Frank Krygowski
I wonder how many motorists have passed me while I was cycling. It's
hard to even give a rough estimate, but it must be at least a million.
If one in a hundred is out to kill me, they're really, really
incompetent.
- Frank Krygowski
AMuzi
> On Jun 15, 5:56 pm, T�m Sherm�n �_� <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
No helmet at which to aim.
James
> There will always be a car equivalent. It used to be horses. People
> used to get stomped by horses all the time. Horse traffic was
> terrible in big cities. http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/images/2008/08/05/horse_traffic.jpg
> Those horse-drawn carriage people were dead inside. Rage, rage against
> the horses! The good part about horses was that you didn't have to
> buy feed from the Middle East -- or even Canada. Cheap repairs, too,
> and in tough times, you could eat them. No part of my car is edible,
> AFAIK.
Klinger ate a Jeep once. Well, parts of a Jeep. Then he suffered
internal problems and needed surgery.
For Andre's benefit, because I know how much he loooves wikipedia ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell_Klinger
(search this page for "Jeep").
--
JS.
Chalo
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > I had to make a (rare) jaunt out to suburban freeway land this
> > afternoon. All I can say is it's no wonder those people are dead
> > inside. We can win our lives back, but first we have to get rid of
> > the fucking cars. Making the harm people do with cars morally and
> > legally equivalent to the same harm if they did it with a chainsaw is
> > a step in the right direction. And taking people out of cars--
> > permanently-- who have proven themselves to be unfit to the task of
> > driving is another.
>
> There will always be a car equivalent. It used to be horses. People
> used to get stomped by horses all the time. Horse traffic was
> Those horse-drawn carriage people were dead inside. Rage, rage against
> the horses! The good part about horses was that you didn't have to
> buy feed from the Middle East -- or even Canada. Cheap repairs, too,
> and in tough times, you could eat them. No part of my car is edible,
> AFAIK.
Not everybody had a horse. Like really, the numbers didn't even
pretend to approximate one horse per adult participating in the
economy. Horses move within the same speed range as bicycles and are
relatively quiet. Horses were usually driven by people who had some
training and familiarity with horses, and who had other ways to live
their lives if it turned out they didn't groove with horses. Horses
function within the parameters of streets designed for human foot
traffic.
If I lived in an exclusively muscle-powered 21st century
transportation system, I'd probably consider the folks who opted for
horses over bikes to be an antisocial element. I might even figure
out convenient means of returning their shit to the owners (jai alai
cesta?). But I'd still rather live in a town like that than in one
ruined and broken by cars and auto-centric streets.
Chalo
James
> If I lived in an exclusively muscle-powered 21st century
> transportation system, I'd probably consider the folks who opted for
> horses over bikes to be an antisocial element. I might even figure
> out convenient means of returning their shit to the owners (jai alai
> cesta?).
I feel that way toward pet owners that allow their pet to crap in my
yard, or on the nature strip we maintain.
The number of really big turds I move off the nature strip before my
wife mows is impressive. I move them to the middle of the footpath,
hoping that the pet owner will pick some up on their shoe next time they
pass and be reminded of their responsibility.
A friend caught a dog owner about to walk on without first removing the
turd the dog had just left on his nature strip. He asked if the dog
owner would remove it. The reply came "Not my problem." My friend
scooped up the steaming turd in his hand and smeared it down the dogs
back. "Now it's his problem.", he said.
I think twice before shaking his hand now.
http://www.knox.vic.gov.au/Page/page.asp?Page_Id=127&h=0
"Council�s General Provisions Local Law requires dog owners to remove
and dispose of thier dog's waste in public places. It is also an offence
not to carry a receptacle (e.g. bag or scoop) to remove dog waste. Dog
owners or people taking dogs for walks must also carry a plastic bag or
a POOch Pouch and pick up and remove all dog droppings every time dogs
are walked."
--
JS.
Andre Jute
Yah, you see, Danno, us psychologists, dealing in human behaviour as
we do, see the obvious things other people don't. But most dress up
the obvious in obscure language to make themselves sound important. It
takes a truly superior psychologist to speak the obvious plainly.
I imagine that the "not all of them", as you have it, are glitches in
the system or perhaps occasionally, as Liddell Tommi claims, police
incompetence or dishonesty.
Andre Jute
> No part of my car is edible, AFAIK.
You just haven't been really hungry, Jay.
Andre Jute
PS. Tip for the wannabe Vogels scrabbling on Google for a visual: Look
up Charlie Chaplin and bootlace.
Andre Jute
> > On 6/15/2011 4:05 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > On Jun 15, 9:16 pm, Frank Krygowski<frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> There's not much you can do with psychopaths, AFAIK. They're
> > >> certainly a problem. But they're rare.
>
> > > Nonsense. On a widely used scale 1 in every 100 Americans is a
> > > psychopath. Several pass you on street every hour you cycle, Frank.
>
> hard to even give a rough estimate, but it must be at least a million.
>
> If one in a hundred is out to kill me, they're really, really
> incompetent.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
Heh-heh. You've made a joke, Frank. Savour the moment. -- AJ
Andre Jute
>
> Klinger ate a Jeep once. Well, parts of a Jeep. Then he suffered
> internal problems and needed surgery.
>
> For Andre's benefit, because I know how much he loooves wikipedia ;-)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell_Klinger
> (search this page for "Jeep").
My dear James, perish the thought that I should require the assistance
of The Wales Ignorance Scam to know who the famous Klinger is! Why, I
had a child of the right age in just the years when *MASH* was being
retreaded on television for the third or fourth time, and my household
revolved around its time slot.
Michael Press
<a3a87ac3-9d71-4742...@s9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 15, 8:58 pm, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > But there are just so damned many psychopaths out there:http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/driver-hits-kills-girl-on-bike...
> >
> > http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vcvgxv
>
> On Professor Hare's widely used scale, about one in a 100 Americans is
> a psychopath, including the majority of those in prison and almost
> everyone on death row.
>
> The equivalent number for Britain is one in 200, half the density of
> psychopaths compared to the States.
Difficult to believe the rate varies around the world.
Easy to believe the diagnosed rate varies.
--
Michael Press
Michael Press
<a3a87ac3-9d71-4742...@s9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 15, 8:58 pm, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > But there are just so damned many psychopaths out there:http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/driver-hits-kills-girl-on-bike...
> >
> > http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vcvgxv
[...]
> So a bicyclist doesn't have to be on a busy road very long to be in
> close proximity to a psychopath in charge of a moving lethal weapon.
^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
--
Michael Press
Michael Press
<d38db16c-d0b5-45bd...@i4g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
Chalo <chalo....@gmail.com> wrote:
The traffic may not have moved more than 10 mph, but it
did not stop. Look at the photographs. The streets were
jammed. My guess is that I much prefer today's streets.
I won't slip in horse shit on a glass smooth cobble and
land under a beer wagon. There is a purpose to spats.
--
Michael Press
Andre Jute
> In article
> <a3a87ac3-9d71-4742-8f99-a5ada1a6c...@s9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 15, 8:58 pm, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > > But there are just so damned many psychopaths out there:http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/driver-hits-kills-girl-on-bike...
>
> > >http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vcvgxv
>
> > On Professor Hare's widely used scale, about one in a 100 Americans is
> > a psychopath, including the majority of those in prison and almost
> > everyone on death row.
>
> > The equivalent number for Britain is one in 200, half the density of
> > psychopaths compared to the States.
>
> Difficult to believe the rate varies around the world.
Why? This is in fact a good proof in the nurture v. nature debate.
People do have different attitudes.
> Easy to believe the diagnosed rate varies.
Of course, it always does, within known and accepted parameters. But
nowhere near a 100 per cent error.
Andre Jute
Being reasonable
Andre Jute
>
> > So a bicyclist doesn't have to be on a busy road very long to be in
> > close proximity to a psychopath in charge of a moving lethal weapon.
>
> ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
>
> --
> Michael Press
Are we supposed to guess what your problem is, Mikey? Or just hold our
breath until we grow old and die?
Duane Hebert
> On Jun 15, 8:58 pm, AMuzi<a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> But there are just so damned many psychopaths out there:http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/driver-hits-kills-girl-on-bike...
>>
>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vcvgxv
>
> On Professor Hare's widely used scale, about one in a 100 Americans is
> a psychopath, including the majority of those in prison and almost
> everyone on death row.
>
> The equivalent number for Britain is one in 200, half the density of
> psychopaths compared to the States.
>
> close proximity to a psychopath in charge of a moving lethal weapon.
Around here it doesn't take long to meet a cycling psychopath! we must
be somewhere between the US and GB, so say one out of every 150 cyclists
should be a psychopath. Saw one yesterday going over an overpass in
rush hour traffic on a three lane road with head phones on and popping a
wheelie with the cars all around him. Thought immediately of Dan on
drugs but he was "taking the lane" so ...
Duane Hebert
+1
James
LOL. Thanks, Duane.
--
JS.
James
> My dear James, perish the thought that I should require the assistance
> of The Wales Ignorance Scam to know who the famous Klinger is! Why, I
> had a child of the right age in just the years when *MASH* was being
> retreaded on television for the third or fourth time, and my household
> revolved around its time slot.
Ha! Our house too. That and Dr Who. MASH is probably the best to
come out of the US, IMHO. Can't beat the Yes Minister and Yes Prime
Minister series from the UK, though. Much is still pertinent today.
--
JS.
Andre Jute
Now, now, boys, let's not have physicals here. And don't think you can
sneak a swiftie by me by asking Frank to prove he was south of the
border all day yesterday.
Andre "The Disciplinarian" (I wish!) Jute
Andre Jute
British comedy is so superior, it comes as a shock to be reminded of
MASH, which was also superior (throwing a bone to Michael Press, who's
quivering like a pointer dog, waiting for me to commit a tautology).
The problem is that British Comedy is Best because it Takes Risks. And
that also means that when it fails, it is simply embarrassing. I find
much of John Cleese's work... simply embarrassing.
Duane Hebert
Sorry but the bit about south of the border went over my head.
Opus
> In article
> <a3a87ac3-9d71-4742-8f99-a5ada1a6c...@s9g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > On Jun 15, 8:58 pm, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > > But there are just so damned many psychopaths out there:http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/driver-hits-kills-girl-on-bike...
>
> > >http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vcvgxv
>
> [...]
>
> > So a bicyclist doesn't have to be on a busy road very long to be in
> > close proximity to a psychopath in charge of a moving lethal weapon.
>
> ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
>
> --
> Michael Press
I think I have some authority on the subject of dealing with
psychopaths in control of moving lethal weapons, having been the
victim of an attempted murder back in 2001. I have been riding on the
roads and streets since shortly after LBJ took office and so far only
one person has tried to kill me on my bicycle. That's more than 45
years riding in the US with only one person actually trying to kill
me, so I would say that the psychopath level is much lower than 1%.
Sociopaths on the other hand ^are^ about 1% judging by the number of
non-lethal violent encounters I receive. The problem is the number of
encounters I get on every trip due to the difference in speed between
my vehicle and the weapon vehicles. The testing for a driver's license
needs to be on the same level as a CHL or pilot's license for both
expense and thoroughness, to weed out the sociopaths.
Duane Hebert
I just sort of assumed that we were talking about sociopaths when lack
of enmity was mentioned. But I'm not sure that the difference between
the two is so clear. Not being a psychiatrists, but only using
dictionary.com:
so·ci·o·path
[soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-] Show IPA
noun Psychiatry .
a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial
and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.
The way that I understand this, a psychopath exhibits aggressive
behavior but doesn't necessarily lack a social conscience. I guess one
could chop up the ex and then feel really bad about it...
Andre Jute
Your math only works, Opus, if you assume that every psychopath wants
to kill you, personally, or wants to kill all cyclists. Why should
every psychopath want to kill you in particular, or even all cyclists?
Andre Jute
Overlapping circles
Andre Jute
I thought you were in Canada. Then, for Frank to prove he wasn't
"taking the lane" where you could see him, he has to prove he was
south of the border.
Andre Jute
Jokes and pancakes.
Duane Hebert
LOL. I am in Canada but I'm from the states so for me, south of the
border still means Mexico. Now I got ya. Anyway, I didn't use the F
word...
Winston
(...)
> The testing for a driver's license needs to be on the same
> level as a CHL or pilot's license for both expense and
> thoroughness, to weed out the sociopaths.
How would upper level managers get to work?
A waiver of some sort?
--Winston
Ronko
>
>
>Ronko wrote:
>> In article <23cfv69tg7958l79v...@4ax.com>,
phil@lee-
>> family.me.uk says...
>>>
>>> "lee.watkins" <lee.w...@gmail.com> considered Tue, 14 Jun 2011
>>> 07:31:26 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:
>>>
>>>> The basis of this mentality is authoritarianism, which is now the
>>>> predominant right-wing conservative
>>>> perspective in the USA, particularly Christian Conservatism.
Violence
>>>> directed towards perceived
>>>> lower tiers without conscience, combined with a kiss-up attitude
>>>> towards authority figures.
>>>>
>>>> The driver assumes anyone else would do the same thing given the
>>>> opportunity. The perception is
>>>> magnified by the metaphor that the car did the violence on the
>>>> drivers' behalf (absolution),
>>>> and the cyclists' lack of official operators credentials.
>>>>
>>>> The language used in newspaper articles and local broadcast
TV/radio
>>>> to describe automobile crashes is intended to reinforce the
>>>> absolution, in part because automobile manufactures/retailers are
the
>>>> primary (and sometimes only) advertising revenue source.
>>>> The lack of enforcement of harsh fines or jail time for this behavior
>>>> removes any doubt that this behavior is sanctioned. This is driven
by
>>>> conservative politics.
>>>> the lack of cyclist licensing and registration/plates credentials
>>>> informs an authoritarian that the cyclist does not belong
>>>> on the road and thus should be punished for getting in the way, or
>>>> even just for fun.
>>>>
>>>> I think the best way to counter all this is to make cycling more
>>>> Authoritarian friendly. An vigorous licensing and registration
>>>> bureaucracy. Drum up patriotic and religious associations with the
>>>> bicycle. The flag, cross, and bible imagery! Build segregated
>>>> bikeways like in Europe, protected with bollards and make it
downright
>>>> christian and patriotic.
>>> What utter cobblers.
>>> What we need are proper penalties for abuse of the privilege of motor
>>> vehicle use.
>>> Heavy fines for the responsible party in any collision - and if they
>>> can't decide which party that was, the fine should be split between
>>> them, not ignored. The full cost of the clear up and medical
>>> treatment necessary should be charged to their insurance.
>>> Any injury should result in imprisonment, the duration depending on
>>> the severity - why should the perpetrator recover any more quickly
>>> than their victim? Permanent disablement or death should equal life
>>> imprisonment.
>>> NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to
use
>>> a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. End of story.
>>>
>>> If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident"
>>> they'd take the necessary care to avoid them.
>>>> Logically Christian conservatives have every supposed moral,
ethical,
>>>> and principled reason to be all about bikes, but modern
conservatives
>>>> have no conscience. They really don't - at least not since
>>>> Goldwater! You have to give them increasingly authoritarian
>>>> reasons. and that can be done and will work like a charm.
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 12, 5:01Ā pm, TĀŗm ShermĀŖn Ā°_Ā°
>> <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
>>>> $southslope.net"> wrote:
>>>>> Police report:
>>>>>
>>>>> "THE CYCLIST WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 NEAR THE TRULOVE
LOOP
>> INTERSECTION.
>>>>> Ā V1 WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 APPROACHING THE CYCLIST
FROM
>> THE REAR. Ā THE
>>>>> FRONT OF V1 COLLIDED WITH THE REAR OF THE BICYCLE. Ā THE
>> IMPACT THREW THE
>>>>> CYCLIST INTO THE AIR BEFORE LANDING ON THE HOOD OF V1
AND
>> ONTO THE
>>>>> WINDSHIELD. Ā V1 CONTINUED FOR A FEW FEET BEFORE
COMING TO
>> A STOP. Ā THE
>>>>> CYCLIST WAS THEN THROWN TO THE ASPHALT WHEN V1
STOPPED.
>> Ā THE DRIVER OF
>>>>> V1 EXITED THE VEHICLE AND OBSERVED THE CYCLIST WHILE
>> TALKING ON THE
>>>>> PHONE. Ā D1 THEN REENTERED HER VEHICLE AND RAN THE
CYCLIST
>> OVER AGAIN
>>>>> BEFORE BEING FORCED FROM HER VEHICLE BY WITNESSES. Ā V1
>> CAME TO FINAL
>>>>> REST FACING WEST IN THE WEST BOUND LANE ON MS 50 JUST
>> METERS WEST OF THE
>>>>> TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION. Ā THE CYCLIST CAME TO FINAL
REST
>> NEAR THE
>>>>> RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF V1."
>>>>>
>>>>> See
>>>>>
>>
<http://www.accidentin.com/article3079581/friends_family_of_accident_v.
..
>>> .
>>>>> Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit
>> mayhem
>>>>> with her vehicle?
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> TĀŗm ShermĀŖn - 42.435731,-83.985007
>>>>> I am a vehicular cyclist.
>> 3500 pound car protecting the motorist vs cyclist with no metal around
>> him/her means the car wins every time. Unfortuneatly that's the nature
of
>> the beast and drivers, if cited at all, are only cited for driving erratically
or
>> not staying in the lane or some other only citable offense. The cyclist is
left
>> with serious or fatal injuries and if fortuneate enough to get hit by a
driver
>> with adequate resources or insurance, can gain some financial recourse
in
>> civil court.
>>
>> However, this case of the driver hitting the cyclist a second time is an
>> entirely different matter. If intent of the driver's part can be shown,
this
>> probably warrants assault with a deadly weapon or attempted
>> manslaughter/murder type of charge. I would like to see that. Local
politics
>> and attitude toward bicyclists usually plays a critical part in how the
>> offender is charged, if at all.
>>
>
>'every time' is categorical.
>
>My employee ran a red light on his bicycle, smashed a car
>panel with his shoulder and was both cited and billed for
>the damage. No injuries to shoulder or bicycle.
>
>I can't imagine how the second battery could be anything but
>'with intent'. We'll see how the jury parses it.
>
>--
>Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
With intent? Her lawyer will argue she was (take your pick): confused,
scared, trying to help but didn't know where the cyclist was laying in the
road so she was just trying to pull over and unfortuneatly ran over the
cyclist again, on medication which was coming on, on medication which was
wearing off, etc.
Yes, I hope she is charged and let a jury decide.
Tºm Shermªn °_°
Upper level management can afford to ride around in chauffeured
limousines, or for the over-compensated, piloted helicopters.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
Andre Jute
Oops. Musta been me who let the vehicula-- sorry, I mean the cat out
of the bag.
AMuzi
>> (...)
>>> The testing for a driver's license needs to be on the same
>> > level as a CHL or pilot's license for both expense and
>> > thoroughness, to weed out the sociopaths.
> Winston wrote:
>> How would upper level managers get to work?
>> A waiver of some sort?
T�m Sherm�n �_� > wrote:
> Upper level management can afford to ride around in chauffeured
> limousines, or for the over-compensated, piloted helicopters.
Almost bicycle content sneaking in the back door today:
http://www.geekologie.com/2011/06/omg-speederbike-style-hoverbike-can-alle.php
Jay Beattie
> In article <itb37j$5v...@dont-email.me>, a...@yellowjersey.org says...
>
>
>
>
>
> >Ronko wrote:
> >> In article <23cfv69tg7958l79v6vd2r9hcj11lm7...@4ax.com>,
> phil@lee-
> >> family.me.uk says...
>
> >>> "lee.watkins" <lee.watk...@gmail.com> considered Tue, 14 Jun 2011
> >> <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
> >>>> $southslope.net"> wrote:
> >>>>> Police report:
>
> >>>>> "THE CYCLIST WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 NEAR THE TRULOVE
> LOOP
> >> INTERSECTION.
> FROM
> >> THE REAR. � THE
> >>>>> FRONT OF V1 COLLIDED WITH THE REAR OF THE BICYCLE. � THE
> >> IMPACT THREW THE
> >>>>> CYCLIST INTO THE AIR BEFORE LANDING ON THE HOOD OF V1
> AND
> >> ONTO THE
> COMING TO
> >> A STOP. � THE
> >>>>> CYCLIST WAS THEN THROWN TO THE ASPHALT WHEN V1
> STOPPED.
> >>>>> V1 EXITED THE VEHICLE AND OBSERVED THE CYCLIST WHILE
> >> TALKING ON THE
> CYCLIST
> >> OVER AGAIN
> >>>>> BEFORE BEING FORCED FROM HER VEHICLE BY WITNESSES. � V1
> >> CAME TO FINAL
> >>>>> REST FACING WEST IN THE WEST BOUND LANE ON MS 50 JUST
> >> METERS WEST OF THE
> REST
> >> NEAR THE
> >>>>> RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF V1."
>
> >>>>> See
>
> <http://www.accidentin.com/article3079581/friends_family_of_accident_v.
> ..
>
>
>
> >>> .
> >>>>> Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit
> >> mayhem
> >>>>> with her vehicle?
>
> >>>>> <http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919>
>
> >>>>> --
Except that jurors don't particularly like bicyclists. You'll get at
least two people who think the defendant should have run over the
cyclist three times. The likelihood of getting a bicycle friendly
jury in semi-rural MS is probably low, although Starkville is a
college town and chances there are considerably better -- but then
again, the accident happened in the next county over, and the lawsuit
may be venued there -- and that county could be banjo country! Make
'em squeal like a pig, then run 'em over! Jurors might ask the court
if they can go run over some bicyclists as a demonstration . . . so
they can understand what happened. Like a jury view. -- Jay Beattie.
James
>>>> <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
>>>>>> $southslope.net"> wrote:
>>>>>>> Police report:
>>
>>>>>>> "THE CYCLIST WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 NEAR THE TRULOVE
>> LOOP
>>>> INTERSECTION.
>> FROM
>>>> THE REAR. � THE
>>>>>>> FRONT OF V1 COLLIDED WITH THE REAR OF THE BICYCLE. � THE
>>>> IMPACT THREW THE
>>>>>>> CYCLIST INTO THE AIR BEFORE LANDING ON THE HOOD OF V1
>> AND
>>>> ONTO THE
>> COMING TO
>>>> A STOP. � THE
>>>>>>> CYCLIST WAS THEN THROWN TO THE ASPHALT WHEN V1
>> STOPPED.
>>>>>>> V1 EXITED THE VEHICLE AND OBSERVED THE CYCLIST WHILE
>>>> TALKING ON THE
>> CYCLIST
>>>> OVER AGAIN
>>>>>>> BEFORE BEING FORCED FROM HER VEHICLE BY WITNESSES. � V1
>>>> CAME TO FINAL
>>>>>>> REST FACING WEST IN THE WEST BOUND LANE ON MS 50 JUST
>>>> METERS WEST OF THE
>> REST
>>>> NEAR THE
>>>>>>> RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF V1."
>>
>>>>>>> See
>>
>> <http://www.accidentin.com/article3079581/friends_family_of_accident_v.
>> ..
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> .
>>>>>>> Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit
>>>> mayhem
>>>>>>> with her vehicle?
>>
>>>>>>> <http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919>
>>
>>>>>>> --
Danger! Danger! Fear Monger!
--
JS
Dan O
The first wheelie out of the driveway - being also a 90 degree turn -
tells me a lot about my particular balancing abilities ATM. If I
almost bite it there, I need to be careful. Completely sane behavior.
Radey Shouman
> Jay Beattie wrote:
>>
>> Chalo wrote:
>> >
>> > I had to make a (rare) jaunt out to suburban freeway land this
>> > afternoon. All I can say is it's no wonder those people are dead
>> > inside. We can win our lives back, but first we have to get rid of
>> > the fucking cars. Making the harm people do with cars morally and
>> > legally equivalent to the same harm if they did it with a chainsaw is
>> > a step in the right direction. And taking people out of cars--
>> > permanently-- who have proven themselves to be unfit to the task of
>> > driving is another.
>>
>> There will always be a car equivalent. It used to be horses. People
>> used to get stomped by horses all the time. Horse traffic was
>> terrible in big cities.http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/images/2008/08/05/horse_traffic.jpg
>> Those horse-drawn carriage people were dead inside. Rage, rage against
>> the horses! The good part about horses was that you didn't have to
>> buy feed from the Middle East -- or even Canada. Cheap repairs, too,
>> and in tough times, you could eat them. No part of my car is edible,
>> AFAIK.
>
> Not everybody had a horse. Like really, the numbers didn't even
> pretend to approximate one horse per adult participating in the
> economy. Horses move within the same speed range as bicycles and are
> relatively quiet. Horses were usually driven by people who had some
> training and familiarity with horses, and who had other ways to live
> their lives if it turned out they didn't groove with horses. Horses
> function within the parameters of streets designed for human foot
> traffic.
Consider what it means to be "cavalier", from "chevalier", a horseman,
hence a gentleman. Wasn't the casual disregard with which a mounted
gentleman might treat groundlings the root of the modern meaning of the
word?
Horses can be pretty damned scary, ask anyone who has been stepped on by
one. They're big, strong, and they have minds of their own that are
never far from fight or flight. It's popular on this newsgroup to
categorize automobiles as deadly weapons, but consider that at least
since the invention of the chariot the horse was one of the principal
tools of waging war. Watch the Lippizzaner stallions and ask yourself
why a military man might want his horse to dance like a butterfly, then
contrast the padded glove of a man with the shod hoof of a horse.
Of course, most urban horse traffic was vehicles drawn by the animals.
These used iron wheels and minimal suspensions; the noise over
cobblestones was terrific, cornering ability miserable. Braking was
laughable by modern standards, and horse-drawn vehicles, especially
large ones, are *really* underpowered, even compared to bicycles.
Horses tire, so performance drops with each sudden stop and start.
Combine a sense of entitlement with an aversion to stopping greater than
that of a brakeless hipster, and you've got a real problem for
pedestrians.
> If I lived in an exclusively muscle-powered 21st century
> transportation system, I'd probably consider the folks who opted for
> horses over bikes to be an antisocial element. I might even figure
> out convenient means of returning their shit to the owners (jai alai
> cesta?). But I'd still rather live in a town like that than in one
> ruined and broken by cars and auto-centric streets.
How likely is that? I can much more easily imagine that some people will
continue to afford automotive transport, even if the majority cannot.
It has been my anecdotal, unscientific observation that places where an
average schmoe hasn't a chance to buy a car tend to be those where
pedestrian hoi polloi had best get out of the way, while drivers in
places where many people can afford a car, although they may cut each
other up fiercely on the roads, are usually much more considerate
towards pedestrians and cyclists.
--
Dan O
Jurors are supposed to be a cross section of society, right? Seems to
me a lot of folks I encounter don't have a clue about bicycles and the
law. Even if they do get boned up on the applicable law, they can't
begin to know what it is to Ride Bike.
<snip>
AMuzi
Taking nothing from the dangers of horses (both by beer
wagons then and riot squads now), this was the end of my
good friend's grandfather in 1924:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/jfkgrfth.jpg
AMuzi
>>>>>>> $southslope.net"> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Police report:
>>>>>>>> "THE CYCLIST WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 NEAR THE TRULOVE
>>> LOOP
>>>>> INTERSECTION.
>>> FROM
>>>>> THE REAR. � THE
>>>>>>>> FRONT OF V1 COLLIDED WITH THE REAR OF THE BICYCLE. � THE
>>>>> IMPACT THREW THE
>>>>>>>> CYCLIST INTO THE AIR BEFORE LANDING ON THE HOOD OF V1
>>> AND
>>>>> ONTO THE
>>> COMING TO
>>>>> A STOP. � THE
>>>>>>>> CYCLIST WAS THEN THROWN TO THE ASPHALT WHEN V1
>>> STOPPED.
>>>>>>>> V1 EXITED THE VEHICLE AND OBSERVED THE CYCLIST WHILE
>>>>> TALKING ON THE
>>> CYCLIST
>>>>> OVER AGAIN
>>>>>>>> BEFORE BEING FORCED FROM HER VEHICLE BY WITNESSES. � V1
>>>>> CAME TO FINAL
>>>>>>>> REST FACING WEST IN THE WEST BOUND LANE ON MS 50 JUST
>>>>> METERS WEST OF THE
>>> REST
>>>>> NEAR THE
>>>>>>>> RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF V1."
>>>>>>>> See
>>> <http://www.accidentin.com/article3079581/friends_family_of_accident_v.
>>> ..
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit
>>>>> mayhem
>>>>>>>> with her vehicle?
>>>>>>>> <http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919>
>>>>>>>> --
That way lies madness.
What's the end of it? Special juries of crackheads, of
big-block V8 owners, of compulsive texters or of sociopaths?
kolldata
calls for pilot's license criteria are misplaced. Airplane op is
complex.
lot of this sounds like macho bugling on your parts...
the accident accounts are outrageous but maybe the perps are mainly
average people having a bad day.
Edward Dolan
news:itedqm$m6r$2...@dont-email.me...
> Dan O wrote:
[...]
> That way lies madness.
>
> What's the end of it? Special juries of crackheads, of big-block V8
> owners, of compulsive texters or of sociopaths?
For heaven's sakes Andrew, learn how to edit a post. Your posts are usually
only a few words, yet you post the whole god damn fucking thread to date.
Don't be so lazy. Get to your point by editing if you ever want anyone to
read what you write.
--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
AMuzi
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-cyclists-struck-culver-city,0,247774.story
Drunk, texting, speeding, over a curb; that certainly _is_
one world class bad day.
AMuzi
> "AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
> news:itedqm$m6r$2...@dont-email.me...
>> Dan O wrote:
> [...]
>> That way lies madness.
>>
>> What's the end of it? Special juries of crackheads, of big-block V8
>> owners, of compulsive texters or of sociopaths?
>
> For heaven's sakes Andrew, learn how to edit a post. Your posts are usually
> only a few words, yet you post the whole god damn fucking thread to date.
> Don't be so lazy. Get to your point by editing if you ever want anyone to
> read what you write.
>
I agree, and apologize.
Dan O
> Dan O wrote:
> > On Jun 16, 5:42 pm, Jay Beattie <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
<snip>
> >> Except that jurors don't particularly like bicyclists.
>
> > Jurors are supposed to be a cross section of society, right? Seems to
> > me a lot of folks I encounter don't have a clue about bicycles and the
> > law. Even if they do get boned up on the applicable law, they can't
> > begin to know what it is to Ride Bike.
>
> > <snip>
>
> That way lies madness.
>
> What's the end of it? Special juries of crackheads, of
> big-block V8 owners, of compulsive texters or of sociopaths?
>
I'm not suggesting stacked juries. - no way. Only observe that a
representative cross section of (US) society will not usually be
capable of sympathy for bicyclists. One would hope for
reasonableness, but I'd also like to see more of it out on the road.
Tºm Shermªn °_°
> Horses can be pretty damned scary, ask anyone who has been stepped on by
> one. They're big, strong, and they have minds of their own that are
> never far from fight or flight. It's popular on this newsgroup to
> categorize automobiles as deadly weapons, but consider that at least
> since the invention of the chariot the horse was one of the principal
> tools of waging war. Watch the Lippizzaner stallions and ask yourself
> why a military man might want his horse to dance like a butterfly, then
> contrast the padded glove of a man with the shod hoof of a horse.
>
The light machine gun put an end to that at the start of WW1.
> Of course, most urban horse traffic was vehicles drawn by the animals.
> These used iron wheels and minimal suspensions; the noise over
> cobblestones was terrific, cornering ability miserable. Braking was
> laughable by modern standards, and horse-drawn vehicles, especially
> large ones, are *really* underpowered, even compared to bicycles.
> Horses tire, so performance drops with each sudden stop and start.
>
> Combine a sense of entitlement with an aversion to stopping greater than
> that of a brakeless hipster, and you've got a real problem for
> pedestrians.
>
I suppose that it is possible to be more despicable than a
fixie-hipster, as unlikely as that seems.
>> If I lived in an exclusively muscle-powered 21st century
>> transportation system, I'd probably consider the folks who opted for
>> horses over bikes to be an antisocial element. I might even figure
>> out convenient means of returning their shit to the owners (jai alai
>> cesta?). But I'd still rather live in a town like that than in one
>> ruined and broken by cars and auto-centric streets.
>
> How likely is that? I can much more easily imagine that some people will
> continue to afford automotive transport, even if the majority cannot.
> It has been my anecdotal, unscientific observation that places where an
> average schmoe hasn't a chance to buy a car tend to be those where
> pedestrian hoi polloi had best get out of the way, while drivers in
> places where many people can afford a car, although they may cut each
> other up fiercely on the roads, are usually much more considerate
> towards pedestrians and cyclists.
Great wealth (aka filthy rich) often buys the privilege of being
anti-social/immoral without punishment, which is one of the best
arguments for progressive taxation, inheritance taxes, and taxes on wealth.
AMuzi
> <snip>
>>>> Except that jurors don't particularly like bicyclists.
>> Dan O wrote:
>>> Jurors are supposed to be a cross section of society, right? Seems to
>>> me a lot of folks I encounter don't have a clue about bicycles and the
>>> law. Even if they do get boned up on the applicable law, they can't
>>> begin to know what it is to Ride Bike.
>>> <snip>
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> That way lies madness.
>> What's the end of it? Special juries of crackheads, of
>> big-block V8 owners, of compulsive texters or of sociopaths?
Dan O wrote:
> I'm not suggesting stacked juries. - no way. Only observe that a
> representative cross section of (US) society will not usually be
> capable of sympathy for bicyclists. One would hope for
> reasonableness, but I'd also like to see more of it out on the road.
A representative cross section doesn't always show mercy to
axe murderers either. But sometimes they do. Heck,
Blagojevich had a hung jury on all but one count last year
and may well get the deadlock free pass again this week.
I think juries ought to be the next 12 people on the voters'
list, period. Hyperselection has not proved to be any better
than randomness.
p.s I'm no expert, I just read the papers every day.
Jay? You out there?
Edward Dolan
news:itel2p$tm1$1...@dont-email.me...
[...]
> Great wealth (aka filthy rich) often buys the privilege of being
> anti-social/immoral without punishment, which is one of the best arguments
> for progressive taxation, inheritance taxes, and taxes on wealth.
On the other hand, you never want to kill the goose that lays the golden
eggs, i.e., entrepreneurs. Follow Mr. Sherman's prescriptions and we will
all end up starving like the North Koreans.
As it is, the wealthy do in fact end up paying for most of the government of
this country. The poor end up paying little or nothing.
Tºm Shermªn °_°
> "T�m Sherm�n �_�"<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote in message
> news:itel2p$tm1$1...@dont-email.me...
> [...]
>> Great wealth (aka filthy rich) often buys the privilege of being
>> anti-social/immoral without punishment, which is one of the best arguments
>> for progressive taxation, inheritance taxes, and taxes on wealth.
>
> On the other hand, you never want to kill the goose that lays the golden
> eggs, i.e., entrepreneurs. Follow Mr. Sherman's prescriptions and we will
> all end up starving like the North Koreans.
>
that create no added value, e.g. credit default swaps.
Or does Mr. Dolan believe that Enron is the corporate model to follow?
> As it is, the wealthy do in fact end up paying for most of the government of
> this country. The poor end up paying little or nothing.
As usual, Mr. Ed Dolan is wrong. He needs to stop listening to so much
talk radio and watching so much Faux Noos.
Billionaires in the US typically pay a smaller share of their total
income in taxes than the people gutting chickens done at the assembly
line slaughterhouse.
Michael Press
<302fb468-5c92-4890...@v8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 9:35 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > > So a bicyclist doesn't have to be on a busy road very long to be in
> > > close proximity to a psychopath in charge of a moving lethal weapon.
> >
> > ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
>
> Are we supposed to guess what your problem is, Mikey? Or just hold our
> breath until we grow old and die?
You quoted my message incorrectly.
My meaning is clear to a wordsmith of your
self-proclaimed attainments.
--
Michael Press
Edward Dolan
> On 6/16/2011 11:54 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
>> news:itel2p$tm1$1...@dont-email.me...
>> [...]
>>> Great wealth (aka filthy rich) often buys the privilege of being
>>> anti-social/immoral without punishment, which is one of the best
>>> arguments
>>> for progressive taxation, inheritance taxes, and taxes on wealth.
>>
>> On the other hand, you never want to kill the goose that lays the golden
>> eggs, i.e., entrepreneurs. Follow Mr. Sherman's prescriptions and we will
>> all end up starving like the North Koreans.
>>
> Not when the "entrepreneurs" spend their time creating financial schemes
> that create no added value, e.g. credit default swaps.
Agreed!
> Or does Mr. Dolan believe that Enron is the corporate model to follow?
Nope, but I do not believe that the European model is the one to follow
either.
>> As it is, the wealthy do in fact end up paying for most of the government
>> of
>> this country. The poor end up paying little or nothing.
>
> As usual, Mr. Ed Dolan is wrong. He needs to stop listening to so much
> talk radio and watching so much Faux Noos.
Fox News - fair and balanced! MSNBC - whores for Obama and the Dems.
> Billionaires in the US typically pay a smaller share of their total income
> in taxes than the people gutting chickens done at the assembly line
> slaughterhouse.
Those working in the meat packing plants pay very little income tax. That is
the chief advantage of having a low income - no income tax. I should know
because I fall into that category myself. But my property taxes are killing
me!
By the way, Minnesota is playing an interesting role in the Repub primaries.
Usually Minnesota is infested with liberals wanting to be president (Eugene
McCarthy, Hubert Humphrey). Keep your eye on Bachmann. Even Pawlenty says a
few intelligent things from time to time although I partially blame him for
my high property taxes.
Tºm Shermªn °_°
Maybe Mr. Jute works at the Department of Redundancy Department?
Duane Hebert
>> Around here it doesn't take long to meet a cycling psychopath! we must
>> be somewhere between the US and GB, so say one out of every 150 cyclists
>> should be a psychopath. Saw one yesterday going over an overpass in
>> rush hour traffic on a three lane road with head phones on and popping a
>> wheelie with the cars all around him. Thought immediately of Dan on
>> drugs but he was "taking the lane" so ...
>
> The first wheelie out of the driveway - being also a 90 degree turn -
> tells me a lot about my particular balancing abilities ATM. If I
> almost bite it there, I need to be careful. Completely sane behavior.
That's why I said "Dan on drugs" <g> It was the wheeljie that reminded
me of you, not the insane behavior. You're probably one of the saner
lurkers around here. You seem to enjoy riding a bike.
Duane Hebert
> Jurors are supposed to be a cross section of society, right? Seems to
> me a lot of folks I encounter don't have a clue about bicycles and the
> law. Even if they do get boned up on the applicable law, they can't
> begin to know what it is to Ride Bike.
They may not know what it means to ride a bike but they probably can
think of lots of cases of cyclists blowing through red lights or stops
where they nearly killed one themselves. Even if it's not the average
behavior of cyclists, we don't tend to remember the average as well as
the unusual. Not sure how to fix that.
Andre Jute
> Jurors are supposed to be a cross section of society, right?
I presume the Jay won't let this pass, but just in case he doesn't --
it isn't quite correct. A jury is supposed to be your peers, and only
by inference to share your outlook, experience and morality. That's
most decidedly not "a cross-section of society", except by mental
acrobatics. In practice, I understand, even less so, since a large
section of society tries and succeeds in escaping jury duty. -- Andre
Jute
Andre Jute
> In article
> <302fb468-5c92-4890-b3fb-e8ed56076...@v8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 16, 9:35 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > > > So a bicyclist doesn't have to be on a busy road very long to be in
> > > > close proximity to a psychopath in charge of a moving lethal weapon.
>
> > > ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
>
> > Are we supposed to guess what your problem is, Mikey? Or just hold our
> > breath until we grow old and die?
>
> You quoted my message incorrectly.
Crap. I quoted your message *exactly* as it appeared in my newsreader.
> My meaning is clear to a wordsmith of your
> self-proclaimed attainments.
Of course your meaning is clear to me, Mikey, and I even made a joke
about it elsewhere on this board. But it is none of my business to
interpret your obstructive obtuseness to the world. -- AJ
Andre Jute
> > Andre Jute<fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Jun 16, 9:35 am, Michael Press<rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> So a bicyclist doesn't have to be on a busy road very long to be in
> >>>> close proximity to a psychopath in charge of a moving lethal weapon.
>
> >>> ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
>
> >> Are we supposed to guess what your problem is, Mikey? Or just hold our
> >> breath until we grow old and die?
>
> > You quoted my message incorrectly.
>
> > My meaning is clear to a wordsmith of your
> > self-proclaimed attainments.
>
> Maybe Mr. Jute works at the Department of Redundancy Department?
The word you're reaching for, Liddell Tommi, is "tautology", or
"tautological". I do it on purpose to troll the more pompous arseholes
on the board. When I do it, it is tomorrow's everyday (heh-heh)
vernacular, when you and Mikey do it, it is illiterate.
Michael Press
<9b5715cb-73b3-4272...@q30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 17, 7:40 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <302fb468-5c92-4890-b3fb-e8ed56076...@v8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> > Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Jun 16, 9:35 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > > So a bicyclist doesn't have to be on a busy road very long to be in
> > > > > close proximity to a psychopath in charge of a moving lethal weapon.
> >
> > > > ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > > Are we supposed to guess what your problem is, Mikey? Or just hold our
> > > breath until we grow old and die?
> >
> > You quoted my message incorrectly.
>
> Crap. I quoted your message *exactly* as it appeared in my newsreader.
Get one that works right. Does your newsreader show a
blank line between the line with carats and the quoted
line that starts with "close"? That blank line is not
in the message I posted.
> > My meaning is clear to a wordsmith of your
> > self-proclaimed attainments.
>
> Of course your meaning is clear to me, Mikey, and I even made a joke
> about it elsewhere on this board. But it is none of my business to
> interpret your obstructive obtuseness to the world.
The connection between whatever joke you made elsewhere
and your usage in this thread is too tenuous to
persuade me that your usage is other than inadvertent
or worse---particularly as you are moved to abuse.
--
Michael Press
Tºm Shermªn °_°
Dan O is not a lurker, since he posts to the group.
Lurkers read only, without posting.
Michael Press
<e23bc339-c807-45e2...@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
James <james.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 4:29 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > My dear James, perish the thought that I should require the assistance
> > of The Wales Ignorance Scam to know who the famous Klinger is! Why, I
> > had a child of the right age in just the years when *MASH* was being
> > retreaded on television for the third or fourth time, and my household
> > revolved around its time slot.
>
> Ha! Our house too. That and Dr Who. MASH is probably the best to
> come out of the US, IMHO. Can't beat the Yes Minister and Yes Prime
> Minister series from the UK, though. Much is still pertinent today.
I watch few enough TV series yet can name several better
than M*A*S*H.
Barney Miller
Rockford Files
Psyche
Odd Couple
Get Smart
M*A*S*H was decent while
McLean Stevenson and Wayne Rogers
were in the show. Grindingly unfunny after.
While you are naming British TV:
_Absolutely_Fabulous_.
<http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjAxNjc5ODM5MV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNDA5OTM3._V1._SX600_SY821_.jpg>
--
Michael Press
Edward Dolan
news:rubrum-43965B....@news.albasani.net...
> In article
> <e23bc339-c807-45e2...@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> James <james.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 16, 4:29 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > My dear James, perish the thought that I should require the assistance
>> > of The Wales Ignorance Scam to know who the famous Klinger is! Why, I
>> > had a child of the right age in just the years when *MASH* was being
>> > retreaded on television for the third or fourth time, and my household
>> > revolved around its time slot.
>>
>> Ha! Our house too. That and Dr Who. MASH is probably the best to
>> come out of the US, IMHO. Can't beat the Yes Minister and Yes Prime
>> Minister series from the UK, though. Much is still pertinent today.
>
> I watch few enough TV series yet can name several better
> than M*A*S*H.
MASH was NEVER any good nor the least bit funny. Alan Alda was the world's
biggest jerk. Hells Bells, he still is!
> Barney Miller
> Rockford Files
> Psyche
> Odd Couple
> Get Smart
All of the above were horrible. You must be an idiot! I hate any and all TV
series. Why? Because they are so god damn fucking awful!
> M*A*S*H was decent while
> McLean Stevenson and Wayne Rogers
> were in the show. Grindingly unfunny after.
It was always grindingly unfunny, suited only for the 12 year old mentality.
You must be an idiot!
It is occasionally possible to watch something halfway decent on The History
Channel, The National Geographic Channel and PBS. Everything else is shit!
Tºm Shermªn °_°
> [...]
> It is occasionally possible to watch something halfway decent on The History
> Channel, The National Geographic Channel and PBS. Everything else is shit!
Nature programs are good, since you get to see the best 50 minutes or so
of 6 months or a year of someone lugging a camera around in the field.