Bicycling and Divorce
Brian D. Potter
spousal/intimate relationships? First, how many cyclists out there are
divorced? Second, did cycling have anything to do with that
circumstance? I'll be the first to answer: "me" to the second and "no"
to the third. However, for those who want to take the inquiry one step
further, how has cycling affected current relationships, positively
and/or negatively? Again, I'll go first. Cycling doesn't really put a
time strain on my current relationship, but it occasionally creates
problems with the where, when, and how far. For instance, we have a
demonstration ride here in my home town--not Critical Mass stuff, but
with a "We ARE Traffic" mentality. Unfortunately, my girlfriend is a
novice cyclist who isn't quite ready for prime time, so we have had to
make alternate arrangements. On some occasions, this has led to
tension.
Do divorcees turn to cycling to express grief, anger, tension,
disappointment? Does it work well as therapy? Do intact couples use
cycling to increase family coherence? Does it ever cause division?
I am not doing official research, nor am I publishing results.
[Note: please contribute your own stories, if you like, or any relevant
observations, generalizations, etc. I'm not looking for feedback on the
experiences related above. This is purely curiosity--for those of you
who don't wish to play, don't bother posting to say it's none of my
business. I already know that. Thanks in advance.]
Ed Wagner
relationship. Do you want to spend time with your significant other, or
do you want to go ride? Usually you can't do both. Usually.
Compound the situation with kids, and the available free time shrinks
even more. But I wouldn't trade my family for any amount of time.
(Catch me on a bad day and I may think differently about that 9 yr. old
boy though!)
My first marriage was a stressful experience. I rode a lot just to be
alone, think, and de-compress. When it finally went belly-up, I rode
less and gave up competition altogether. A series of injuries forced
even less riding. The broken bones and nerve damage made me afraid to
ride for years afterward.
I married again, this time to a lovely woman who loves to cook. Since I
love to eat, it worked out very well! But my trousers kept getting too
tight. One day I held up a pair of size 42s and said, "No way!" I
started riding to work soon after.
It still serves as an escape valve. I lose a lot of stress by going out
to play in traffic. The daily commute is a nice separation between work
and home. If something bothers me, I just ride faster, pounding the
pedals. It's harder to find time for a ride on the weekend, but since
I'm an early riser, I'm often out at 6:30AM or so. I can beat the heat,
and still be home around the time the kids wake up. ( I buy their
silence and good behavior by arriving with fresh donuts. Like me,
they're readily motivated by food.)
She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed would like me to stop commuting. She thinks
it's too dangerous. This too has been a source of friction. I really
need to ride. I'd feel trapped in a little box if I couldn't. Does
that make sense? Without that regular exercise I get depressed and
irritable. My legs start to hurt as muscles contract. Without cycling
(or coffee!) I turn into one miserable SOB.
--
Ed
E.J.Wagner Jr.
"Brian D. Potter" <brh...@iamerica.net> wrote in message
news:397CDE21...@iamerica.net...
Brian D. Potter
Ed Wagner wrote:
> Cycling is one of those zero-sum activities that can cause friction in a
> relationship. Do you want to spend time with your significant other, or
> do you want to go ride? Usually you can't do both. Usually.
And if one does combine the time? It's a compromise, usually a "kickin'
around, just for fun, chew the fat" kind of ride. Those can be relaxing,
too, occasionally. Occasionally.
>
>
> Compound the situation with kids, and the available free time shrinks
> even more. But I wouldn't trade my family for any amount of time.
> (Catch me on a bad day and I may think differently about that 9 yr. old
> boy though!)
>
> My first marriage was a stressful experience. I rode a lot just to be
> alone, think, and de-compress. When it finally went belly-up, I rode
> less and gave up competition altogether. A series of injuries forced
> even less riding. The broken bones and nerve damage made me afraid to
> ride for years afterward.
Ah. I rode more after my divorce, pounding internal aches into each hill
until one day I woke up and the anger was gone. I continued riding more and
more until a broken arm (walking really is more dangerous than cycling) and
a new position at work intervened.
>
>
> I married again, this time to a lovely woman who loves to cook. Since I
> love to eat, it worked out very well! But my trousers kept getting too
> tight. One day I held up a pair of size 42s and said, "No way!" I
> started riding to work soon after.
You don't look like a 42! But I know the feeling: a good relationship puts
the pounds on.
> It still serves as an escape valve. I lose a lot of stress by going out
> to play in traffic. The daily commute is a nice separation between work
> and home. If something bothers me, I just ride faster, pounding the
> pedals. It's harder to find time for a ride on the weekend, but since
> I'm an early riser, I'm often out at 6:30AM or so. I can beat the heat,
> and still be home around the time the kids wake up. ( I buy their
> silence and good behavior by arriving with fresh donuts. Like me,
> they're readily motivated by food.)
When I abruptly stopped riding in the spring of '99, my mood soured almost
immediately. Crabby, grumpy, gripy, uncomfortable, lackadaisical, restless,
distant--if those aren't impediments to intimacy, I don't know what would
be! The symptoms began to diminish when I returned to a regular riding
regimen.
>
> She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed would like me to stop commuting. She thinks
> it's too dangerous. This too has been a source of friction. I really
> need to ride. I'd feel trapped in a little box if I couldn't. Does
> that make sense? Without that regular exercise I get depressed and
> irritable. My legs start to hurt as muscles contract. Without cycling
> (or coffee!) I turn into one miserable SOB.
Have you had any success in convincing her it's not too dangerous? I can't
even talk about the fatality statistics with my girlfriend (you know, the
favorable figures in comparison with walking, motoring, and motorbiking), as
she then fixates on risk association. Kind of like the negative ads in
presidential campaigns--people tack the mud back onto the slinger much of
the time. (Ooh, don't know if I like that analogy much.) Anyway, she
agrees with the rational end of the argument but cannot overcome the
emotional impediment.
> --
> Ed
>
> E.J.Wagner Jr.
>
Peter
"Brian D. Potter" <brh...@iamerica.net> wrote:
>
>
> Have you had any success in convincing her it's not too dangerous?
> I can't even talk about the fatality statistics with my girlfriend
> (you know, the favorable figures in comparison with walking, motoring,
> and motorbiking), as she then fixates on risk association. Kind of
> like the negative ads in presidential campaigns--people tack the mud
> back onto the slinger much of the time. (Ooh, don't know if I like
> that analogy much.) Anyway, she agrees with the rational end of the
> argument but cannot overcome the emotional impediment.
>
Maybe something positive like the article below would work - commuting
by bike reduces overall mortality 40%. It works with my wife. But she
stated that she wasn't sure it was a good tradeoff: Getting less of my
time while I'm relatively young and useful for fixing stuff around the
house for more time when I'm old and grumpy! My answer to this one is
that not riding will make me grumpy and mean now. There is a definite
mood-enhancing effect of regular exercise that even my wife notices.
-Peter
----
Posted recently on the LAB list server:
Bicycle commuting could save your life - according to a study published
inthe prestigious Archives of Internal Medicine. The study took place
in Copenhagen, Denmark.
In a prospective study of 13,375 women and 17,265 men, which followed
participants for an average of 14.5 years, bicycling to work was found
to decrease risk of mortality by approximately 40% after
controlling for other factors, including leisure time physical activity.
Information on bicycling as transportation to work was available for 783
women and 6,171 men. Among these 6,954 subjects, 2,291 died during
follow-up. That's 40% less than the sedentary control group.
The average bicycle commute was 18 minutes each way - approximately 3
hours per week.
The study used a multivariate analysis to adjust for leisure time
physical activity, smoking, cholesterol levels, triglyceride levels,
body mass index, systolic blood pressure, educational level age, sex and
health status.
The full report says that health status was taken into account. A
separate analysis was initially performed for those with a diagnosed
illness. Their risk of mortality was 1.74 times the "healthy"
population.
A copy of the report is available on-line at:
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/issues/v160n11/full/ioi90593.html
A copy of the abstract is at:
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/issues/v160n11/abs/ioi90593.html
The title is: All-Cause Mortality Associated With Physical Activity
During Leisure Time, Work, Sports, and Cycling to Work
by Lars Bo Andersen, PhD, DMSc; Peter Schnohr, MD; Marianne Schroll,
PhD, DMSc; Hans Ole Hein, MD
Archives of Internal Medicine Vol 160 Number 11, June 12, 2000
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Arno Granados
>
> Looking for anecdotal evidence: what effect does cycling have on
> spousal/intimate relationships?
[edited for brevity]
I'm one of the lucky ones I guess, my wife likes to ride too, and
understands my "needs", so to speak. The complications started when we
started a family. We've now got two kids (3.6 and 0.4 years old) and a
nice trailer for them to ride in, but there is still a lot of "family"
time (which I wouldn't give up for the world) which severely limits time
on the bike. I used to race, and still do occasionally (three races
this year, and an organized century in August--to add to the 4
"training" centuries I did this spring). I'm lucky in that I have flex
time at my job, an understanding wife, and a 3 year old who likes to
ride his bike and likes to ride in the trailer. Still, it takes some
squeezing of the schedules. I usually get up before 6AM, and either
ride, or go in early to work. I come home for lunch and spend time with
my kids while my wife goes out for an hour on the bike. I then go back
to work, and if I rode in the AM, I work until about 5:30, otherwise I
get off work around 4pm and go for a 1.5 hour ride. On Saturdays I get
up at 6AM, and am on the road by 6:30AM so that I can be home in time
for a late (10AM) breakfast with the whole family. It works, but I
usually end up going to bed about the same time as my 3 year old! :-)
I'm also lucky in that I live in a rural area with great road cycling
right out the door, and MTB trails literally starting in my back yard.
You've got to pick your priorities and your spouse carefully. Also, my
wife knew I was heavily into cycling before we got married. It might be
a lot harder if someone gets into cycling
mid-marriage, but I don't see cycling being any different than many
other time consuming hobbies. I've got one friend who is into RC
airplanes, and spends hours "hiding" in the garage building them.
Another friend "collects" orchids, and spends hours tending them. Still
another friend is a Ham radio buff who spends a lot of time on-the-air;
and then there's the friend who rebuilds old cars as a hobby. All of
these are expensive, time consuming hobbies that their spouses do not
have a shared interest in. It's not just about cycling, it's about
*any* relationship/hobby/life and how you live it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arno Granados agra...@nrao.edu
(304)456-2214 http://www.gb.nrao.edu/~agranado
JJ
divorce, I think that it (and the accompanying lifestyle) played a role.
Halfway through our marriage, my wife decided to return to smoking and quit
exercising, and the activities she had claimed to enjoy before were no
longer important. This, combined with the general discord that goes along
with a crumbling relationship, led me to spend more and more time on the
bike. As someone else posted, it's a good way to escape. Anyway, I
probably could have spent less time on my bike and more time trying to
repair my relationship, but after a while, the time on the road was by far
preferable time with my wife. When she left the house, I bought another
bike:) Now my weekly mileage is up, and I am in the best shape of my life.
Go figure.....
"Brian D. Potter" <brh...@iamerica.net> wrote in message
news:397CDE21...@iamerica.net...
> Looking for anecdotal evidence: what effect does cycling have on
Ed Wagner
My wife was diagnosed with a form of muscular dystrophy that attacks the
large skeletal muscles. She's having difficulty walking, and she will
never be able to ride a bike. I'm afraid that she'll be confined to a
wheelchair before long. We're facing much larger problems than we ever
expected. Our children have a 50/50 chance of developing the same
disease.
But cycling is still my escape. When the frustration seems
overwhelming, or in those moments when I'm simply angry at the world, I
pound those pedals. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't change a
thing. She's a good wife and a fine mother. I'm lucky to have her.
We wander through life, seldom knowing what's around the next bend. All
we really can do is to love those people close to us with all our heart,
all our soul, and all our mind.
--
Ed
E.J.Wagner Jr.
"Pan Loaf" <pan...@panloaf.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> Buy a tandem.
>
KMsSavage
bend. All we really can do is to love those people close to us with all our
heart, all our soul, and all our mind.<
Wow.
Any more at home like you, EJW?
--Karen M.
:sniff:
Ed Wagner
requirement to call women "darlin' '' so I have to practice) I'm the
only one. I have an uncle in his 70's, and a son who's 9. If you want
to wait for the boy, he should arrive at adulthood with a full
complement of toys. He already has designs on my racing bike and my
tools.
But I do know a couple of bachelors. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
--
Ed
E.J.Wagner Jr.
"KMsSavage" <kmss...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000725212816...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
REHaston
safety, cycling amongst experienced adults is safer than driving. I have
commuted 12 years and have had one good scare, but it would have been a low
speed (right turning car cut me off) crash.
I guess most people don't get the analogy, but I think of the German aces in
WWII (some on the Western front logged over 100 against English and American
pilots and planes) who logged up to 300 kills, mainly by using tactics that
let them avoid situations that they couldn't get out of safely.
If you want to keep her happier, try buying a safety flasher from Target. It
is a 4x6" panel of 18 mega bright red LEDs. It lights up the front of my
neighbor's house from my door at night. I recommend using it in flash mode
only during the day.
For a headlight, I use a 20 watt halogen tracklight and 12V gel cell - under 40
bucks total, not including the charger. I use a car batter trickle charger
with a resistor to limit the current to .1 or .2 amps. It has lasted 3 years
so far.
Robert Haston
Satellite Beach, FL USA
Expanding roads to fight congestion is like loosening your belt to fight
obesity
(author unknown)
=======================================================
Ken Martin
people to drive to a spa and work out on a stationary bicycle or a treadmill
than it is for them to go about their daily business on foot or on bicycle.
I have always done the vast majority of my errands on foot, bike or
skateboard.
I don't see the sense in taking a car on an errand when it's unnecessary.
I have dated a lot of bright, intelligent open minded women, who see the
logic in this lifestyle, but would generally prefer to go everywhere by
auto.
I still drive sometimes , but most of the time I bike because it's more fun
,and it keeps me in shape. It seems like most folks would rather work out in
a gym.
The bicycle lifestyle conflicts with the auto lifestyle. i notice this is a
source of relationship conflict.
Ken
D. Dale Gulledge
> She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed would like me to stop commuting. She thinks
> it's too dangerous. This too has been a source of friction. I really
> need to ride. I'd feel trapped in a little box if I couldn't. Does
> that make sense? Without that regular exercise I get depressed and
> irritable. My legs start to hurt as muscles contract. Without cycling
> (or coffee!) I turn into one miserable SOB.
That's interesting. I have had the opposite experience with my wife, although
I feel the same way when I'm not riding not riding. She is 100% behind my
commuting rides. She knows that I need the exercise and the decompression.
So I get questions from her like, "What do you need some that you can sart
riding again?" This was because we moved. Suddenly I had to ride hills with
fully-loaded panniers. I've known for years that my knees would be the first
thing to go. So, we bought me a new bike and the necessary accessories. She
likes who I am much better when I ride.
Eleanor MacMaster
in my case, but it has been a source of friction in various
relationships of various type. I acknowledge the reality that
in a relationship - especially one that involves children -- one
must work at fitting in at least some riding and that one must
meet one's responsibilities and obligations first. That being
said, I also think that it is short-sighted and foolish even to
attempt to stop the people one supposedly loves from doing
something that they love. In the end they will only resent for
you it. Someone who really care about the me that I most truly
am would never want me to stop doing something that I love so
much -- and, besides, is GOOD for me and helps keep me mentally
and physically fit.
One answer may be to ensure that one does not live with or
marry people who do not comprehend this. Even with children,
there are ways to work in at least a little riding -- I did,
through severals years of full time work and single parenthood.
Where there's a will...etc.,
--
"Biker Chick"
Gene Floyd
myself as it sounds so much like me. Only in my case, it's not the danger that
she's worried about, but the inconvenience of having to be the one to pick the
kids up from daycare on the days I ride and having to hold supper for me and the
8-YO.
Jpfler
encourages me to do my biking (which I love) at every opportunity I have.She
knows it makes me a better person.29 years together.
Jim
D. Dale Gulledge
> One answer may be to ensure that one does not live with or
> marry people who do not comprehend this. Even with children,
> there are ways to work in at least a little riding -- I did,
> through severals years of full time work and single parenthood.
As soon as our kids were old enough, they were in the bike trailer going for
rides down the Erie Canal towpath. I can't think of a better way to teach
them how to ride safely than to set a good example for them.
It doesn't hurt that biking doesn't hurt my wife's hip. Since it is an
exercise we can share, it hasn't been a point of contention.
> Where there's a will...etc.,
Yes. "Where there's a will, there's a lawyer contesting it."
--
- Dale, heavy set, middle-aged guy riding too slow ... every day.
Gene Floyd
single arenthood. In fact, when my ex-wife left me and the kids, part of the
deal was that she got to name any terms she wanted in the divorce as long as she
didn't touch my kids, our personal effects, or our bikes. So she drove off into
the sunset, rarely to be seen again, and we went carless for close to 2 years
while biking around Gainesville, FL. Once I worked my way into a white-collar
job and a car, riding became much harder to find time for, but since remarrying,
we have all rediscovered (or in her and her kids case, been introduced to) the
joys of family cycling, and I've taken advantage of having another adult around
in order to sneak in a little time riding alone. Riding with kids is great, but
it doesn't do much for your muscular endurance (it does test your patience) or
speed, so being able to get out on my own and unwind a bit. I even manage to
commute the 10 miles from work at least twice a week when the weather is good,
but I have to keep a car at work in case she works over (something that I made
clear when I was hired that I could not do on short notice), and my commuting is
done with an 8-YO so we don't break any speed records. The other days, I'm stuck
sitting in traffic behind a wheel and wishing I was whizzing by on my bike.
KMsSavage
it doesn't do much for your muscular endurance (it does test your patience) or
records.
Two words, Gene, take your pick:
Tandem
Trail-a-bike
--Karen M.
has both
Gene Floyd
foot taller than his classmates LOL). Besides, the kids all have nice geared bikes
and enjoy riding them...I can't deprive them of that, although I am considering
using info on Sheldon Brown's website to build a 24"-wheeled tandem for hte 8-YOs
so they won't be so competitive with each other and hopefully learn more about
teamwork.
si...@yahoo.ca
> I would not say that cycling has been direct cause of divorce
> in my case, but it has been a source of friction in various
> relationships of various type. I acknowledge the reality that
> in a relationship - especially one that involves children -- one
> must work at fitting in at least some riding and that one must
> meet one's responsibilities and obligations first. That being
> said, I also think that it is short-sighted and foolish even to
> attempt to stop the people one supposedly loves from doing
> something that they love. In the end they will only resent for
> you it. Someone who really care about the me that I most truly
> am would never want me to stop doing something that I love so
> much -- and, besides, is GOOD for me and helps keep me mentally
> and physically fit.
>
> marry people who do not comprehend this. Even with children,
> there are ways to work in at least a little riding -- I did,
> through severals years of full time work and single parenthood.
>
> "Biker Chick"
tracking you down....email me. nicoll
cycl...@yahoo.com
> Looking for anecdotal evidence: what effect does cycling have on
> spousal/intimate relationships? First, how many cyclists out there are
> divorced? Second, did cycling have anything to do with that
> circumstance? I'll be the first to answer: "me" to the second and "no"
> to the third. However, for those who want to take the inquiry one step
> further, how has cycling affected current relationships, positively
> and/or negatively? Again, I'll go first. Cycling doesn't really put a
> time strain on my current relationship, but it occasionally creates
> problems with the where, when, and how far. For instance, we have a
> demonstration ride here in my home town--not Critical Mass stuff, but
> with a "We ARE Traffic" mentality. Unfortunately, my girlfriend is a
> novice cyclist who isn't quite ready for prime time, so we have had to
> make alternate arrangements. On some occasions, this has led to
> tension.
>
> Do divorcees turn to cycling to express grief, anger, tension,
> disappointment? Does it work well as therapy? Do intact couples use
> cycling to increase family coherence? Does it ever cause division?
>
> I am not doing official research, nor am I publishing results.
>
> [Note: please contribute your own stories, if you like, or any relevant
> observations, generalizations, etc. I'm not looking for feedback on the
> experiences related above. This is purely curiosity--for those of you
> who don't wish to play, don't bother posting to say it's none of my
> business. I already know that. Thanks in advance.]
F.K.
and you can't agree....
Sounds like two small kids playing in the sand box and they both want
ALL the toys.
Grow up a bit.
Edward Dolan
On Monday, July 24, 2000 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Brian D. Potter wrote:
>> Looking for anecdotal evidence: what effect does cycling have on
>> spousal/intimate relationships? First, how many cyclists out there are
>> divorced? Second, did cycling have anything to do with that
>> circumstance? I'll be the first to answer: "me" to the second and "no"
>> to the third. However, for those who want to take the inquiry one step
>> further, how has cycling affected current relationships, positively
>> and/or negatively? Again, I'll go first. Cycling doesn't really put a
>> time strain on my current relationship, but it occasionally creates
>> problems with the where, when, and how far. For instance, we have a
>> demonstration ride here in my home town--not Critical Mass stuff, but
>> with a "We ARE Traffic" mentality. Unfortunately, my girlfriend is a
>> novice cyclist who isn't quite ready for prime time, so we have had to
>> make alternate arrangements. On some occasions, this has led to
>> tension.
>>
>> Do divorcees turn to cycling to express grief, anger, tension,
>> disappointment? Does it work well as therapy? Do intact couples use
>> cycling to increase family coherence? Does it ever cause division?
>>
>> I am not doing official research, nor am I publishing results.
>>
>> [Note: please contribute your own stories, if you like, or any relevant
>> observations, generalizations, etc. I'm not looking for feedback on the
>> experiences related above. This is purely curiosity--for those of you
>> who don't wish to play, don't bother posting to say it's none of my
>> business. I already know that. Thanks in advance.]
do whatever I want whenever I want and it never even occurs to me to take
anyone else into consideration. God ... it must be awful to be married!
Ed Dolan the Great
John B.
wrote:
--
Cheers,
John B.
Edward Dolan
news:7ekrb8t8f2k0kto52...@4ax.com...
>do whatever I want whenever I want and it never even occurs to me to take
>anyone else into consideration. God ... it must be awful to be married!
>
>Ed Dolan the Great
>> The guy ain't even married and already he's got problems :-)
However, the subject of this thread is interesting as I have known several
men who were into cycling and whose wives divorced them. The men were taking
their vacations doing week long bike tours without their wives. I think
separate vacations are almost always a sign of trouble ahead.
Men who like to bicycle and who want to stay married should not take
separate week long bike tours for their summer vacation. Either convince the
wife to come along or else forget about it.
Ed Dolan the Great
John B.
was never a problem in either marriage. I currently ride about 20 Km
in the mornings, several times a week, and on Sunday do a 4 - 5 hour
"long ride" and my wife has never complained.
However, in both marriages there was always a bike available if the
wife wanted to ride so it was always a matter of "if you want to
come".
And on the other hand, I don't know why a bloke would be married and
NOT want to take his wife on his vacation :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
Edward Dolan
[...]
> I don't know. I've been married twice and to be frank, bicycle riding
was never a problem in either marriage. I currently ride about 20 Km
in the mornings, several times a week, and on Sunday do a 4 - 5 hour
"long ride" and my wife has never complained.
> However, in both marriages there was always a bike available if the
wife wanted to ride so it was always a matter of "if you want to
come".
> And on the other hand, I don't know why a bloke would be married and
NOT want to take his wife on his vacation :-)
Ed Dolan
You are just going for daily rides that would not be considered a
separation. She is probably glad to get you out of the house for a few
hours. The guys I am talking about would leave their wives for several weeks
at a time in order to engage in a bicycle safari. Very risky business if you
ask me!
" I think separate vacations are almost always a sign of trouble ahead." -
Ed Dolan
Ed Dolan the Great
John B.
wrote:
wives as I really can't imagine it. Perhaps I'm old fashioned by my
marriages have been more a matter of forming a partnership than some
sort of adversary sort of thing.
--
Cheers,
John B.
Edward Dolan
[...]
> I can't comment on people who take several weeks to be away from their
wives as I really can't imagine it. Perhaps I'm old fashioned by my
marriages have been more a matter of forming a partnership than some
sort of adversary sort of thing.
the fact is that men and women are very different. There are damn few things
that men and women can do together and enjoy equally. Once this is
recognized, there is nothing wrong or untoward in letting one's mate do her
or his thing without interference. The family that stays together overly
much is destined for a shipwreck.
When it comes to cycling I recommend that men cycle with other men and that
women cycle with other women. That is the only way it is ever equally
enjoyable for both sexes. Tandem cycling is an abomination and was most
likely an invention of the Devil!
I am imparting this knowledge to you from 75 years of being not only a
bachelor, but a hermit besides. Only us hermits know anything worth knowing.
Everyone else has been corrupted by too much human contact. Experience is an
ugly thing and never worth the bother.
Ed Dolan the Great
John B.
wrote:
knowledge of the state.
Your comment that "The family that stays together overly
much is destined for a shipwreck" may be true in Modern America but it
certainly wasn't the original concept. Originally marriage served the
purpose of (hopefully) ensured that any kids that the husband had to
support through their formative years were his and secondly it
provided a unit, call it partnership if you want, that was far more
capable of coping with life than a single person. Try going out and
plowing 40 acres and than coming home and doing the washing, ironing
and cook supper all by your self.
--
Cheers,
John B.
Edward Dolan
>>> Your comment that "The family that stays together overly
much is destined for a shipwreck" may be true in Modern America but it
certainly wasn't the original concept. Originally marriage served the
purpose of (hopefully) ensured that any kids that the husband had to
support through their formative years were his and secondly it
provided a unit, call it partnership if you want, that was far more
capable of coping with life than a single person. Try going out and
plowing 40 acres and than coming home and doing the washing, ironing
and cook supper all by your self.
is a boon if they can also find some male boob to support them, but it is
not necessary anymore. Various units of government will support her and her
brood. Of course, under such conditions, the kids all grow up to be
criminals and society goes straight to perdition.
Hells Bells, marriage is no longer between one man and one woman in several
states. Marriage can now be anything you want it to be. But the fact is
that traditional marriage is going the way of the Dodo Bird.
Marriage is a balancing act. Too much togetherness is not good nor is too
much separation. Husbands and wives can do things separately (such as
cycling) as long as you meet up at the end of the day or the week. But I
still think separate vacations of more than a week are somewhat risky.
Thus spake Zarathustra!
Ed Dolan the Great
John B.
>
>>>> Your comment that "The family that stays together overly
>much is destined for a shipwreck" may be true in Modern America but it
>certainly wasn't the original concept. Originally marriage served the
>purpose of (hopefully) ensured that any kids that the husband had to
>support through their formative years were his and secondly it
>provided a unit, call it partnership if you want, that was far more
>capable of coping with life than a single person. Try going out and
>plowing 40 acres and than coming home and doing the washing, ironing
>and cook supper all by your self.
>
>You have an old fashion idea of marriage. What women want are children. It
>is a boon if they can also find some male boob to support them, but it is
>not necessary anymore. Various units of government will support her and her
>brood. Of course, under such conditions, the kids all grow up to be
>criminals and society goes straight to perdition.
>
>Hells Bells, marriage is no longer between one man and one woman in several
>states. Marriage can now be anything you want it to be. But the fact is
>that traditional marriage is going the way of the Dodo Bird.
>
>Marriage is a balancing act. Too much togetherness is not good nor is too
>much separation. Husbands and wives can do things separately (such as
>cycling) as long as you meet up at the end of the day or the week. But I
>still think separate vacations of more than a week are somewhat risky.
generation viewed divorce as a rather despicable act. As for separate
vacations, I doubt that they would have contemplated such an exercise
- they liked each other.
But you are correct, Modern America appears to contemplate marriage as
a temporary arrangement at best. I keep reading about people with
"partners" although that may be a politically correct expression to
avoid upsetting the "X" sex.
(Australian passports are now issued showing M (male), F (female) or X
(indeterminate/unspecified/intersex))
--
Cheers,
John B.
Edward Dolan
[...]
> Experience is vastly overrated.
>> Thus speaks the inexperienced.
only. All experience is a form of pollution.
Thus spake Zarathustra!
> Marriage is a balancing act. Too much togetherness is not good nor is too
>much separation. Husbands and wives can do things separately (such as
>cycling) as long as you meet up at the end of the day or the week. But I
>still think separate vacations of more than a week are somewhat risky.
>> This seems to be some sort of modern idea. At least my parent's
generation viewed divorce as a rather despicable act. As for separate
vacations, I doubt that they would have contemplated such an exercise
- they liked each other.
children launched ... although today it might take more like 30 years.
Husbands and wives can still like one another and prefer to be apart for
varying periods of time for one reason or another.
>> But you are correct, Modern America appears to contemplate marriage as
a temporary arrangement at best. I keep reading about people with
"partners" although that may be a politically correct expression to
avoid upsetting the "X" sex.
(Australian passports are now issued showing M (male), F (female) or X
(indeterminate/unspecified/intersex))
such mistakes are few and far between. After all, nature is only intent on
perpetuating the species and this is only acomplished via males impregnating
females. The “X” sex always only constitutes about .00000000001% of a
population and is best ignored for the nonentity that it is.
Ed Dolan the Great
Jym Dyer
>> town--not Critical Mass stuff, but with a "We ARE Traffic"
>> mentality.
in all 50 states. :^)
=v= Critical Mass, in same way or another, was behind my meeting
nearly every girlfriend for the last 20 years. That doesn't
mean every relationship with a biker has worked, nor that the
bike was responsible for the ones that didn't.
>> Do divorcees turn to cycling to express grief, anger,
>> tension, disappointment?
than an inherent imbalance in chemistry to be treated with e.g.
antidepressants, so cycling can address the emotional states
just by producing endorphins.
=v= Therapy that works to identify underlying motivations and
unconscious behavior patterns that interfere with relationships
could be a greater improvement in the long run, though it's not
easy to find a competent relationship therapist. Currently the
track record of most therapies is no better than no therapy at
all (but indentifying these things may still be what you want).
<_Jym_>
Jym Dyer
> from their wives as I really can't imagine it. Perhaps I'm old
> fashioned by my marriages have been more a matter of forming a
> partnership than some sort of adversary sort of thing.
a bunch of sad jokes that have been repeated ad nauseum. Maybe
they're understandable as a coping mechanism, but why inflict
unfunny humor on the rest of us?
=v= Separate vacations isn't necessarily a bad thing and doesn't
mean a relationship is doomed. People can love each other very
much and want to spend their lives together, but still pursue
separate interests from time to time.
<_Jym_>
J.B.Slocomb
marriages. In, say my grandparents day, divorce was simply "not the
thing to do" in the social and religious atmosphere that prevailed at
the time in rural New England.
In addition to the social stigmata of divorce was the fact that
marriages were usually contracted between members of the local society
and thus between individuals who had likely known each other for most
of their life.
--
Cheers,
John B.
pjnva
even talk about the fatality statistics with my girlfriend (you know, the
favorable figures in comparison with walking, motoring, and motorbiking)..."
Having been unsuccessful in validating your theory above, can you point me to the source(s) of your optimistic "statistics"? Thanks!
isk...@gmail.com
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