Clean Winners of the Tour de France - as far as we know.
Anton Berlin
podium for the years Armstrong doped his way to first place.
You have to go pretty deep to find a clean rider.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5040547056_3dacf5edfd_b.jpg
1999 winner of the Tour de France is now Fernando Escartin.
2000 winner is ( you have to go to 8th place to find a non-doper ) is
also Fernado Escartin !
2001 winner is Andrei Kivilev
2002 won by José Azevedo
2003 won by Haimar Zubeldia
2004 won by José Azevedo
2005 won by (former 8th place) Cadel Evans
Methodology was to wiki the tour then wiki the gc until I found no
(historically) doping allegations/implications or positive tests/
suspensions listed.
Also note 2009 - now won by Andy Schleck
Brad Anders
Really? You're more gullible than I thought. "Clean"? It's an
illusion, you have no idea at all if these guys are "clean", and
there's every indication that they're not. Your "evidence" of no
allegations/implications is simply silly - anyone who was in top 20 on
GC in a GT for the past couple of decades is suspect, and more than
likely a doper. Just what it takes to be in that group.
I knew your pursuit of LA was ridiculous, but this list you've
compiled seals the deal.
Simply Fred
> 2001 winner is Andrei Kivilev
He rode for Festina until 1999. If you believe he was clean, you'd
better sell all your stuff and get ready for the rapture.
> 2005 won by (former 8th place) Cadel Evans
Didn't he have an "association" with Ferrari ?
Anton Berlin
>
> Really? You're more gullible than I thought. "Clean"? It's an
> illusion, you have no idea at all if these guys are "clean", and
> there's every indication that they're not. Your "evidence" of no
> allegations/implications is simply silly - anyone who was in top 20 on
> GC in a GT for the past couple of decades is suspect, and more than
> likely a doper. Just what it takes to be in that group.
I agree - just making the point.
Brad Anders
OK, but then don't add the disclaimer "as far as we know".
Anton Berlin
> OK, but then don't add the disclaimer "as far as we know".
???? It means one SHOULD add the disclaimer
Fredmaster of Brainerd
Dumbasses,
The last clean winner of the Tour de France was Roger
Walkowiak, who won in 1956.
Walkowiak was an unknown rider who got into a long break
and then was unexpectedly able to defend his lead.
(Ironically, wikipedia claims his victory was widely derided
because he wasn't a big star and won without ... panache.)
Given his unknown pedigree and the state of cycling at the time,
it's fairly safe to say that Walkowiak would have had a doping
programme much less sophisticated than the favorites of
the day - he might not have been able to afford much of a
doping programme at all.
So although we can't say with certainty that Walkowiak was
clean, he was probably cleaner than his contemporaries, thus
we may declare him clean by the standards of professional
cycling. Definitely more so than any of his successors, all of
whom are under suspicion, as are their companions on the
lower steps of the podium.
It is a tragedy that the Tour de France was ever run and won
again after Walkowiak's honest victory. It would have been
better for cycling (and for honest bike-mongers, who would
hardly want to sell products ridden by a dirty dog doper) if the
Tour had stopped in 1956. I hope and trust that cycling's
bout of self-examination will result in a retroactive re-ranking
of the results that disqualifies the winners of the last 54 Tours.
Sincerely,
Fredmaster Ben
Davey Crockett
| The last clean winner of the Tour de France was Roger
| Walkowiak, who won in 1956.
It's highly unlikely that Walkowiak was clean.
He'd never have got onto the team if he was.
There's probably never been a "clean" winner of the Tour.
Consider that by 1930 doping was so well entrenched, and generally
accepted, that the Tour Race Bible that year listed "Dope" as one of the
Items that the organizers would not supply for the riders.
Choppy Warburton probably introduced cycling to drugs from the very
earliest days of bike racing with his prototype Pot Belge consisting of
Ether, Cocaine, Strychnine, Caffein and Alcohol.
Choppy himself had been a prolific winner in Foot/Running races from the mid
1860's on, having something like 1,000 victories to his credit. It was
widely considered that he doped to win.
Several of his riders, after he switched form competing to coaching,
died young and one, Tom Linton died right after the 1896 Bordeaux-Paris
where I believe he finished second.
--
Davey Crockett
Flying the Flag of the English
The Flag of Hengest and Horsa
http://usera.imagecave.com/daveycrockett/englishdragon.jpg
Choppy Warburton
Davey, thanks for the recognition. I've been keeping myself alive and
still running local races through the use of strychnine, cocaine, EPO
and small amounts of nitro-glycerin. I will be celebrating my 166th
birthday this Nov and count almost every well known cyclist, DS and
trainer as pupils of mine. If you know their name, they know me.
Frederick the Great
Davey Crockett <r...@azurservers.com> wrote:
> Fredmaster of Brainerd a écrit profondement:
>
> | The last clean winner of the Tour de France was Roger
> | Walkowiak, who won in 1956.
>
> It's highly unlikely that Walkowiak was clean.
I did not take his statement at face value.
> He'd never have got onto the team if he was.
>
> There's probably never been a "clean" winner of the Tour.
>
> Consider that by 1930 doping was so well entrenched, and generally
> accepted, that the Tour Race Bible that year listed "Dope" as one of the
> Items that the organizers would not supply for the riders.
>
> Choppy Warburton probably introduced cycling to drugs from the very
> earliest days of bike racing with his prototype Pot Belge consisting of
> Ether, Cocaine, Strychnine, Caffein and Alcohol.
>
> Choppy himself had been a prolific winner in Foot/Running races from the mid
> 1860's on, having something like 1,000 victories to his credit. It was
> widely considered that he doped to win.
>
> Several of his riders, after he switched form competing to coaching,
> died young and one, Tom Linton died right after the 1896 Bordeaux-Paris
> where I believe he finished second.
So what you are saying is that doping is much safer these days.
--
Old Fritz
Benjo Maso
"Anton Berlin" schreef in bericht
news:cdcf3a6e-ef3f-47c5...@l26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5040547056_3dacf5edfd_b.jpg
Escartin clean? He was not only one of dr. Ferrari's 'patients, but the
police found also his name in Conconi's files as one of the riders with a
hematocrit more than 50%.
Benjo Maso
Fredmaster of Brainerd
>
> Escartin clean? He was not only one of dr. Ferrari's 'patients, but the
> police found also his name in Conconi's files as one of the riders with a
> hematocrit more than 50%.
>
> Benjo Maso
But he retired honorably in due time and without pissing
anyone off, which is the most important thing.
Someone must have been telling lies about Lance A.,
for without having done anything wrong he was arrested
one fine morning.
Fredmaster Ben
Benjo Maso
"Fredmaster of Brainerd" schreef in bericht
news:f8296326-fca4-4913...@dn9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
On May 22, 2:17 pm, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 22, 8:05 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Really? You're more gullible than I thought. "Clean"? It's an
> > > illusion, you have no idea at all if these guys are "clean", and
> > > there's every indication that they're not. Your "evidence" of no
> > > allegations/implications is simply silly - anyone who was in top 20 on
> > > GC in a GT for the past couple of decades is suspect, and more than
> > > likely a doper. Just what it takes to be in that group.
>
> > I agree - just making the point.
>
> OK, but then don't add the disclaimer "as far as we know".
Dumbasses,
The last clean winner of the Tour de France was Roger
Walkowiak, who won in 1956.
Walkowiak was an unknown rider who got into a long break
and then was unexpectedly able to defend his lead.
(Ironically, wikipedia claims his victory was widely derided
because he wasn't a big star and won without ... panache.)
Given his unknown pedigree and the state of cycling at the time,
it's fairly safe to say that Walkowiak would have had a doping
programme much less sophisticated than the favorites of
the day - he might not have been able to afford much of a
doping programme at all.
A sophisticated doping program didn't exist in 1956. There weren't even team
doctors. Most riders were taking all kinds of products, prescribed by their
soigneurs. The trouble was that none of these soigneurs had any medical
training. The only serious performance enhancing product riders were using
was amphetamine. Until 1955 anybody could by it for a few francs at a
pharmacy - without a prescription. In 1956 it was a little harder to get -
one had to buy it in Spain or at the black market, but it was still very
cheap.
Walkowiak wasn't quite unknown (at the 1955 Dauphiné Libéré he had made
suffer even Louison Bobet) and he had also a soigneur: the ex-pro Andrea
Minasso, who also served Anquetil and Rivière - not quite riders known to be
'clean'. So probably Bartali would be a better choice...
Benjo Maso
ilan
You can also remove the 1991-1998 winners. Miguel Indurain tested
positive for a banned substance after his hour record. However, it was
banned in France, but not the UCI, the race was in Bordeaux.
1996: Riis admitted he doped.
1997: Ullrich + Puerto.
1998: Pantani. Enough said.
That takes me back to Greg Lemond. I can't think of any cheating
controversy involving him. Maybe all those lead pellets lodged in his
heart helped him on the 1990 descent of the Marie Blanque when
Chiapucci attacked him after he flatted.
-ilan
Benjo Maso
"Fredmaster of Brainerd" schreef in bericht
news:5ef416bb-34f7-424c...@q9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Obviously you're very happy about it - in the original German version it's
not 'a fine morning', but just 'a morning' ("...ohne dass er etwas Böses
getan hätte, wurde er eines Morgens verhaftet").
Benjo
Benjo Maso
"ilan" schreef in bericht
news:2c0fa9be-1e82-42f0...@z37g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On May 22, 4:38 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> We've all seen this but only in 1990 do we have a clean rider on the
> podium for the years Armstrong doped his way to first place.
>
> You have to go pretty deep to find a clean rider.
>
> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5040547056_3dacf5edfd_b.jpg
>
> 1999 winner of the Tour de France is now Fernando Escartin.
>
> 2000 winner is ( you have to go to 8th place to find a non-doper ) is
> also Fernado Escartin !
>
> 2001 winner is Andrei Kivilev
>
> 2002 won by José Azevedo
>
> 2003 won by Haimar Zubeldia
>
> 2004 won by José Azevedo
>
> 2005 won by (former 8th place) Cadel Evans
>
> Methodology was to wiki the tour then wiki the gc until I found no
> (historically) doping allegations/implications or positive tests/
> suspensions listed.
>
> Also note 2009 - now won by Andy Schleck
> You can also remove the 1991-1998 winners. Miguel Indurain tested
> positive for a banned substance after his hour record. However, it was
> banned in France, but not the UCI, the race was in Bordeaux.
> 1996: Riis admitted he doped.
> 1997: Ullrich + Puerto.
> 1998: Pantani. Enough said.
Pantani??? Never a failed test. I rest my case.
> That takes me back to Greg Lemond. I can't think of any cheating
> controversy involving him. Maybe all those lead pellets lodged in his
> heart helped him on the 1990 descent of the Marie Blanque when
> Chiapucci attacked him after he flatted.
OK, if we only count riders clever enough to not be mixed in doping affairs,
that makes
1991 Lemond
1992 Hampsten
1993 Jaskula
1994 Pellicioli
1995 Mauri
1996 Lütterberger
1997 Zberg
1998 Julich
1999 Nardello
2000 Nardello
Benjo
Fredmaster of Brainerd
What about his "iron shots" and remarkable improvement
thereafter?
"Man is conceived in sin and born in corruption and he passeth
from the stink of the didie to the stench of the shroud. There is
always something."
-- Willie Stark on opposition research, from _All the King's
Men_
Fredmaster Ben
Fredmaster of Brainerd
> "Fredmaster of Brainerd" schreef in berichtnews:5ef416bb-34f7-424c...@q9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
That's a difference between English and German-speaking
attitudes I guess - how optimistic the mere fact of a morning
makes you.
I couldn't remember the exact phrasing so I had to google it -
"fine morning" is in the standard English version I think, so
it appears to be license on the part of the translator.
Fredmaster Ben
Anton Berlin
classic movie
A. Dumas
> OK, if we only count riders clever enough to not be mixed in doping
> affairs, that makes
>
> 1991 Lemond
> 1992 Hampsten
> 1993 Jaskula
> 1994 Pellicioli
> 1995 Mauri
> 1997 Zberg
> 1998 Julich
> 1999 Nardello
> 2000 Nardello
Gah. From that list I guess I only trust Lemond (and don't know Pellicioli).
Benjo Maso
"A. Dumas" schreef in bericht
news:4dde8ebc$0$49047$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
Pellicioli finished 15th in 1994...
But what about:
1990 Lemond
1989 Lemond
1988 Parra
1987 J.-F. Bernard
1986 Lemond
1985 Lemond
1984 Criquelion
1983 Lubberding
1982 Daniel Willems
1981 De Muynck
1980 Kuiper
1979 Kuiper
1978 Galdos
1977 Kuiper
1976 Riccomi
1975 Fuchs
1974 Panizza
1973 Fuente
1972 Ward Janssens
1971 Galdos
1970 Gösta Petterson
1969 Gandarias
1968 San Miguel
5 wins for Lemond, 3 for Hennie Kuiper!!!
Benjo
Choppy Warburton
> "A. Dumas" schreef in berichtnews:4dde8ebc$0$49047$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
Lemond doped. Don't be stupid.
Fred Flintstein
> Benjo Maso wrote:
>> 1992 Hampsten
>
> Gah. From that list I guess I only trust Lemond (and don't know
> Pellicioli).
Dumas,
Still bitter over the Gavia stage, eh?
F
A. Dumas
Thanks for noticing.
ilan
wrote:
Yes, but since he was sexually abused as a child, it doesn't count.
-ilan
Ryan Cousineau
Fredmaster of Brainerd
> You should trust Hampsten, but you can't get over the Breukink thing.
Breukink was a master of riding in such terrible
conditions - a clean rider couldn't have beat him, so
Hampsten's victory is under suspicion.
Fredmaster Ben