Some perspective (or Fuck You Floyd)
F. Kurgan Gringioni
Regardless of whether you believe Floyd was doping (I believe he was), he's
not credible.
Dude's father in law committed suicide after he tested positive. Dude got
divorced. Dude spent 4 years crusading about his innocence. He was either
lying then or lying now. Credible people don't lie.
The time for him to come clean was either right after he tested positive or
right after his poor father in law offed himself. Four years later? After he
tried to bankrupt the agencies with his legal campaign? Come on.
Fuck you Floyd.
thanks,
Fred. presented by Gringioni.
Fred Flintstein
Dumbass,
You forgot how he's broke now without any income and needs money.
Fred Flintstein
Amit Ghosh
wrote:
dumbass,
it possible for a person to lie at one point and not lie at another
point in time.
i don't see why he would be lying now. i do see why he would've lied
in the past, that was the normal way to deal with that situation and
at the time it still seemed possible that he might return to a euro
pro team.
i think he's making these revelations now is because i don't think his
motivation is purely to "come clean". he feels fucked over, because he
sees vino, basso, scarponi, millar riding at the front in the giro,
when he didn't do anything worse then those guys.
he also implicates leipheimer, bruyneel and zabriskie. why would he
bring those guys into it unless he feels some resentment and he has
dirt on them ?
(yeah he sent the letters at the end of april and beginning of may
before the giro, but you get my drift, he feels like he got shafted)
GoneBeforeMyTime
> Dumbasses -
>
> Regardless of whether you believe Floyd was doping (I believe he
> was)
> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
What I remember the most is how he got off his bike when he won the next
stage after he was dead the day before. That sealed the tour, and I just
remember he got off that bike like someone who just stepped out of a taxi or
something. He didn't show a single sign of being tired, he looked like a
terminator and that's very odd to me. Look at past champions and most of
them are practically falling off their bikes after an effort like that. Look
at Indurain or any number of riders. They rode some epic stages but they
usually looked cooked and had to have help getting off their bikes. Landis
got off that bike like he was balancing the Universe on his little finger. I
just remember people seeing that and saying, shit, he must be on something.
Mark J.
> On May 20, 12:35 pm, "F. Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Dumbasses -
>>
>> Regardless of whether you believe Floyd was doping (I believe he was), he's
>> not credible.
>>
>> Dude's father in law committed suicide after he tested positive. Dude got
>> divorced. Dude spent 4 years crusading about his innocence. He was either
>> lying then or lying now. Credible people don't lie.
>>
>> The time for him to come clean was either right after he tested positive or
>> right after his poor father in law offed himself. Four years later? After he
>> tried to bankrupt the agencies with his legal campaign? Come on.
>>
>
> dumbass,
>
> it possible for a person to lie at one point and not lie at another
> point in time.
Duh. The hard part is for the rest of the world to tell which is which.
> i don't see why he would be lying now.
Ahh, so you just pick the version that fits your preconceived notion?
-Captain Obvious
F. Kurgan Gringioni
"Amit Ghosh" <amit....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4fcce7cf-47b0-4252...@c11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> it possible for a person to lie at one point and not lie at another
> point in time.
Dumbass -
Please reread.
Fred on a stick
> The time for him to come clean was either right after he tested
> positive or right after his poor father in law offed himself. Four
> years later?
Dumbass,
If you're looking for perspective, first you have to get your head out of
your ass.
His denial and fight against the positive, and his admission now is
consistent with what I had predicted back in 2006: that he doped, but hadn't
doped with synthetic T before that stage. He fought the positive because he
wasn't positive. Now he's admitting doping during his career because he
actually doped during his career.
Anton Berlin
Stephen Roche may have been the last clean* rider to fall off the bike
after a hard stage.
*1987 Stephen Roche An official Italian investigation into the Carrera
team found that Roche was administered EPO (with the help of Francesco
Conconi) in 1993, his last year in the peloton. It is alleged that
Roche took EPO earlier in his earlier career as well. At one point
Roche was threatening to sue Kimmage for his book – Rough Ride which
expressed that doping was widespread.
Read more: http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/procycling/cycling-doping-scandals/#ixzz0oUqK7JdX
Anton Berlin
wrote:
Better late than never. I can see why a guy would have lied about it
originally, mainly being so many others lie and get away with it.
We're taught this as an example.
I think he's telling the closest thing he can to reality now (his
faulty memory, his perception and biases, etc)
And it's too bad it will be a 'he said, she said' thing because
they'll never get that cunt Lance to fess up on his own.
If anywhere contempt should remain focused on Armstrong (the biggest
fraud and beneficiary of fraud) and on the UCI (# 2 on that list).
Fred Flintstein
> he also implicates leipheimer, bruyneel and zabriskie. why would he
> bring those guys into it unless he feels some resentment and he has
> dirt on them ?
He also has dirt on guys with Phonak. But he only narcs
on the guys that will help him market himself in the
US. That's consistent with my theory that it's all about
being broke and not having any income.
Fred Flintstein
Amit Ghosh
>
> Duh. The hard part is for the rest of the world to tell which is which.
dumbass,
in your life you will probably encounter many situations where you
cannot tell if a person is lying or not - that is why you need to
analyze the situation and make a judgment call.
it's is possible that he was telling the truth before and now he's
lying, but one scenario makes sense, the other doesn't.
> Ahh, so you just pick the version that fits your preconceived notion?
i don't see what he stands to gain. so yes, some scenarios are more
likely than others.
Amit Ghosh
wrote:
> He also has dirt on guys with Phonak. But he only narcs
> on the guys that will help him market himself in the
> US. That's consistent with my theory that it's all about
> being broke and not having any income.
>
dumbass,
i agree that he probably resents those guys. he might have dirt on
botero or santiago perez, but he probably doesn't resent those guys
since they were similarly fucked over.
i don't see how he will make money off this though. he isn't going to
get that job at mellow johnny's like livingston did.
Anton Berlin
did.)
Sows and cunts like Lance only have so many tits that can be sucked
off of.
Almost makes Liz Hatch look respectable for only having 2.
Fred Flintstein
> i don't see how he will make money off this though. he isn't going to
> get that job at mellow johnny's like livingston did.
Well, he isn't going to write up the details and post
it on a blog for everyone to see. We'll see how far
along the book deal is. If it comes out in July then
we'll know.
Fred Flintstein
Mark J.
"i don't see..." so therefore it can't be true. Only that which
confirms my preconceptions will be seriously entertained. Says it all.
PS - others have noted possible things that you don't see, e.g. book
deal, revenge, etc. LANCE today, in what could be the truth or could be
his usual very effective spin, says Floyd's upset that his team wasn't
invited to ToC. Take that also for what it's worth.
PPS - I'm not saying Floyd's lying now, really only that his
"revelations" are far from persuasive, given his history.
Mark J.
GoneBeforeMyTime
Figuratively speaking, falling off the bike not literally, but I mean if you
notice most riders after winning a hard important mountain stage like that
are kind of shaky and definitely all in a lot of times, glad that it's over.
Landis got off his bike that day like Clint Eastwood getting out a limo
stepping onto the red carpet and speedily walking into the Oscars to win one
for Unforgiven. I've never seen a rider so fresh and confident as Landis was
that day when he got off his bike. That was a real head turner, if anyone
got a Youtube clip of that, impressive, but not authentic obviously.
Doug Anderson
> On May 20, 1:24�pm, "Mark J." <MarkUse...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Duh. �The hard part is for the rest of the world to tell which is which.
>
> dumbass,
>
> in your life you will probably encounter many situations where you
> cannot tell if a person is lying or not - that is why you need to
> analyze the situation and make a judgment call.
>
> it's is possible that he was telling the truth before and now he's
> lying, but one scenario makes sense, the other doesn't.
dumbass,
Landis seems to be someone who says what he thinks will help him,
regardless of the truth.
In the past he thought (erroneously) it would help him to maintain
that he never doped. Currently he thinks it will help him (it remains
to be seen if he is right) to say that he did dope and to try to
implicate others.
It is true that some scenarios are more likely than others (for
example, there is evidence beyond his words that he doped). But when
you are dealing with a person who will say whatever he perceives to be
to his advantage, you really can't draw conclusions about what is
true.
Dumbass
wrote:
Give Floyd a break. He's got all these lawyer bills from back when he
was claiming that he did not dope, he he need the proceeds from
writing a book where he claims he doped with LA.
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:C4udnVRmxfPwFWjW...@giganews.com...
Tabloid magazines have paid significant sums of money for stories with less
"leg" than this one. Floyd isn't going about it quite the right way to
maximize monetary value, but I just figues that's Floyd being Floyd. The
same guy who didn't have a problem at his hearings when he overheard his
good friend making that sick fake call to LeMond.
I have to believe there's some big $$$ and fame to the writer who brings
down the Lance empire, if Floyd's allegations are true. My own opinion is
that Floyd is extrapolating an awful lot. If organized doping was/is going
on, I think it likely that someone as smart as Bruyneel would make sure guys
like Floyd were "marginalized" in terms of their knowledge of the big
picture.
But again, where is David Walsh??? Greg LeMond may be laying low for awhile,
perhaps finally taking advice from his attorneys.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
K. Fred Gauss
> Dude's father in law committed suicide after he tested positive. Dude
> got divorced. Dude spent 4 years crusading about his innocence. He was
> either lying then or lying now.
Or he was lying then and now. But seriously, we know he was lying then,
right? The question is how much of what he's saying now is the truth and
how much is lashing out or attention seeking.
But I must admit, I really don't care. It's just a bicycle race.
K. Fred Gauss
There's money to be made in a heart warming reunion between Greg and
Floyd. Or a cage match.
K. Fred Gauss
> I think he's telling the closest thing he can to reality now (his
> faulty memory, his perception and biases, etc)
Add "perceived self interest" to the list and I agree.
Fred Flintstein
> His denial and fight against the positive, and his admission now is
> consistent with what I had predicted back in 2006: that he doped, but hadn't
> doped with synthetic T before that stage. He fought the positive because he
> wasn't positive. Now he's admitting doping during his career because he
> actually doped during his career.
Nostradumbass,
So who's going to win Dancing With the Stars?
Fred Flintstein
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:4bf5...@news.x-privat.org...
Rollerball. No substitutions. No penalties. Televised live from Las Vegas.
It would be a shame to destroy another indoor wood track like they did in
the movie, but think of the ratings! Think of the betting. It might finally
make cycling a well-known sport.
We don't even have to suspend penalties. Just have McQuaid serve as referee.
semi-ambivalent
Dang! Betty is right...
sa
Frederick the Great
<4fcce7cf-47b0-4252...@c11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
Amit Ghosh <amit....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 20, 12:35 pm, "F. Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Dumbasses -
> >
> > Regardless of whether you believe Floyd was doping (I believe he was), he's
> > not credible.
> >
> > Dude's father in law committed suicide after he tested positive. Dude got
> > divorced. Dude spent 4 years crusading about his innocence. He was either
> > lying then or lying now. Credible people don't lie.
> >
> > The time for him to come clean was either right after he tested positive or
> > right after his poor father in law offed himself. Four years later? After he
> > tried to bankrupt the agencies with his legal campaign? Come on.
> >
>
> dumbass,
>
> it possible for a person to lie at one point and not lie at another
> point in time.
A regular liar lies all the time.
Floyd could say "The sun rises in the east."
and still be misleading. When you cannot
trust someone, you cannot trust them.
How do you know that what they say is
the fact of the matter?
--
Old Fritz
Betty Munro
>> But again, where is David Walsh??? Greg LeMond may be laying low for
>> awhile, perhaps finally taking advice from his attorneys.
K. Fred Gauss wrote:
> There's money to be made in a heart warming reunion between Greg and
> Floyd. Or a cage match.
How about including Lafferty II while you're matchmaking.
Betty Munro
> So who's going to win Dancing With the Stars?
Tonya Harding. Liz will be 2nd.
GoneBeforeMyTime
>> Rough Ride which expressed that doping was widespread.
>>
>> Read more:
>> http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/procycling/cycling-doping-scandals/#ixzz0oUqK7JdX
>
> Figuratively speaking, falling off the bike not literally, but I mean
> if you notice most riders after winning a hard important mountain
> stage like that are kind of shaky and definitely all in a lot of
> times, glad that it's over. Landis got off his bike that day like
> Clint Eastwood getting out a limo stepping onto the red carpet and
> speedily walking into the Oscars to win one for Unforgiven. I've
> never seen a rider so fresh and confident as Landis was that day when
> he got off his bike. That was a real head turner, if anyone got a
> Youtube clip of that, impressive, but not authentic obviously.
At 5:25, Phil says Landis gets off his bike like he's ready to deliver the
newspaper.
Talk about looking fresh, looking back that seems just too good to be true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlVuha6m204
K. Fred Gauss
When I said "heart warming reunion..." I wasn't thinking of a porn
movie. It's a fun thought, but I doubt there's any money in a movie with
those 3.
K. Fred Gauss
> But when
> you are dealing with a person who will say whatever he perceives to be
> to his advantage, you really can't draw conclusions about what is
> true.
>
Nicely said, independent of my opinion of Flandis.
Frederick the Great
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> But again, where is David Walsh??? Greg LeMond may be laying low for awhile,
> perhaps finally taking advice from his attorneys.
Somehow I miss that sad bastard. [Sniff!]
--
Old Fritz
cur...@the-md-russells.org
<Fr...@fredlier.than.thou> wrote:
>There's money to be made in a heart warming reunion between Greg and
>Floyd. Or a cage match.
Figure eight pursuit. Never mind that I think that would be great in
regular track racing as well.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
cur...@the-md-russells.org
<Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>I have to believe there's some big $$$ and fame to the writer who brings
>down the Lance empire, if Floyd's allegations are true. My own opinion is
>that Floyd is extrapolating an awful lot. If organized doping was/is going
>on, I think it likely that someone as smart as Bruyneel would make sure guys
>like Floyd were "marginalized" in terms of their knowledge of the big
>picture.
There might have been some $$$, although not big, if Floyd hadn't been
pissing in the pool so long. I've seen a couple of initial reactions
from 'mainstream' press and it seems to be 'why bother, you can't
trust him anyway'.
It gets him mentioned for a day on ESPN Sportsline, but won't get him
on Oprah and it won't sell many books. Its my personal belief that the
vast majority of cycling fans fall into one of three categories: 1)
yeah, they drug, but it all evens out, so I don't care, 2) yeah, they
drug and its the sports problem, not mine, so I don't care, or 3)
there isn't really that much drug use, and I'm tired of it taking so
much of the press. Those three groups will not buy much of anything
Landis is selling.
Of the 4) yeah, they drug and it is a disgrace that should be rooted
out, root, branch and stem and a bonfire held in the town square
group, there are some that want as much confirmation of their beliefs
as possible and a whole lot that already think they know more than
what Landis is willing to tell them. The sales to that first small
part of group 4 is barely enough to warrant a cover on the book.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Sitting on the Group W bench on this one...