Triathlism: an incredibly unserious sport
Ryan Cousineau
Best female triathlete on the planet wasn't into sports until her 20s,
had a creepy relationship with her sex-offender first coach, and can't
really ride a bike. I'm not making any of that up.
Anton Berlin
Ryan - I think you're wrong. Train for and do an ironman - it's a
fucking bitch.
Fred Flintstein
>
>
> Ryan - I think you're wrong. Train for and do an ironman - it's a
> fucking bitch.
>
Dumbass,
Hard != Serious
For example, RAAM is hard.
Fred Flintstein
Steven Bornfeld
More than a little bit creepy.
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
Fredmaster of Brainerd
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jan/02/chrissie-wellington-inter...
>
> Best female triathlete on the planet wasn't into sports until her 20s,
> had a creepy relationship with her sex-offender first coach, and can't
> really ride a bike. I'm not making any of that up.
Dumbass,
She split with the coach and I don't see where it says
she can't ride a bike, other than that as a novice she
had to be shown how to clip and unclip from pedals.
I mean, of course she can't ride a bike, she's a tri-geek,
but no evidence she's worse than the rest.
The real problem here is that she gets through the
bike ride by humming horrible music (at least she
admits it's horrible) and reciting Kipling to herself.
Sick.
Fredmaster Ben
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
wrote:
Dumbass -
Triathlon is serious.
There's a decent amount of money at stake. $$$ brings out the
seriousness.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Ryan Cousineau
> On Jan 3, 4:18 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jan/02/chrissie-wellington-inter...
>
> > Best female triathlete on the planet wasn't into sports until her 20s,
> > had a creepy relationship with her sex-offender first coach, and can't
> > really ride a bike. I'm not making any of that up.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> She split with the coach and I don't see where it says
> she can't ride a bike, other than that as a novice she
> had to be shown how to clip and unclip from pedals.
> I mean, of course she can't ride a bike, she's a tri-geek,
> but no evidence she's worse than the rest.
One of the first things he did was sign her up to do a long-course
triathlon in Alpe d'Huez, which takes place on some of the gruelling
climbs of the Tour de France. She got a puncture, catapulted over a
crash barrier and still managed to win.
Yes, bike racers crash too, but I promise you that if any pros
catapult over a crash barrier during a TT, then...
1) I will laugh
2) They will not win that race
And also, grading triathletes on the curve of tri bike handling would
be emblematic of the soft bigotry of low expectations. I'm principled
enough to observe that they're terrible.
Mind you, cycling may be the second least serious pro sport around...
Ryan Cousineau
In theory I can believe that. This interview was empirical evidence
you're wrong.
Beloved Fred No. 1
> Yes, bike racers crash too, but I promise you that if any pros
> catapult over a crash barrier during a TT, then...
I bet Julich could if he tried a little.
Brad Anders
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jan/02/chrissie-wellington-inter...
>
> had a creepy relationship with her sex-offender first coach, and can't
> really ride a bike. I'm not making any of that up.
That's a really amazing article, on so many levels. Not a whole lot of
humility.
Frederick the Great
<5c99e977-2f26-4276...@p7g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Ryan Cousineau <rcou...@gmail.com> wrote:
Second only to synchronized swimming.
--
Old Fritz
derf...@gmail.com
over and over until they are cured:
Fred Flintstein
To her credit she's aware of her mental illness. She has OCD and
she revels in it. Laff has OCD and he's totally oblivious to it.
Fred Flintstein
Scott
> In article
> <5c99e977-2f26-4276-aff3-40d4830cd...@p7g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Or synchronized gerbil-wheel team pursuit
TriGuru55x11
As painful as that video was to watch that, I still want to thank you.
That hit me hard and this for me was a real "moment of truth" "wake up and
smell the taint" kind of realization, I think I learned some valuable
things to help further train my clients.
I don't usually read this board and it is good to see there's worthwhile
information being posted.
Scott
Reminds me of my first ever triathlon... almost. I went to great
lengths to recon the route from the swim finish to where I'd racked my
bike, since I'd read how hectic it could be to search for your bike in
all the confusion. No one told me that if you're next to last coming
out of the water, it's not hard at all to find your bike. When I
think of all the time/energy I wasted that morning,...
Fredmaster of Brainerd
wrote:
She's destroying the competition - it kinda sounds like
any humility would be forced. I'd rather read that then
listen to yet another football player modestly thanking God
for his success (like God cares about beating the Broncos.
Okay, maybe God does care about vanquishing the
Broncos, but that doesn't explain His intervention in all
other games each week.)
Of course, she's destroying them partly because the
field is thin, but still, I think you practically have to have OCD
to be a top endurance athlete. I mean, not just the
training, but the whole weighing-the-oatmeal baggage.
It's not that you have to weigh the oatmeal to win -
it's that you have to have that need to care enough
to weigh it.
Fredmaster Ben
Obsessive, yet not a top endurance athlete
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
If you're a triathlete, it's a good idea to not read this board.
Triathletes handle this place about as well as they do riding in the
middle of a pack.
Anton Berlin
Anton Berlin
I wouldn't be so quick to judge -
1. Good triathletes are as elite as any cyclist ( I saw number of them
turn in 54 minute TTs on a hilly multi corner bad pavement course) and
that's after the swim in 60 degree lake water! Those guys would have
easily won every state championship tt that year.)
2. We barely talk about cycling anyway
3. His rants will probably be better than Ed Dolans
4. And you're fucking swimming anyway so maybe you should be in the
tri forums
--D-y
Some of them are truly monsters. They do one thing, by and large, on
the bike, and that specialization (including equipment, positioning,
training) works.
"Cross training" can produce extreme fitness-- back in the day, we saw
a "local guy" all of a sudden come out of the woodwork and be able to
at least tag along with the midwest hotshots of the day in crits,
notably in a BAR race at Moline. Turned out he had a killer wintertime
swimming routine for when the Chicagoland weather prevented effective
road training. I "swam" at a fairly high level during one high-school
summer and his workout schedule was bad-ass, if I couldn't tell you
the details all these years later. Grueling. Ouch.
(FWIW) Tri-geeks lose respect from me because so many of them seem to
have 'tudes about learning to be good (safe) pack riders.
There's a local weekly "tri-ride" that is famous for their weekly
crashes. Stuff happens to us all-- but then, one of the cardinal
skills of pack riding is covering mistakes others might make, and
*not* crashing. "Giant egos abounding". Too bad, the "Red Badge of
Courage" ethos is screwed, totally.
--D-y
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> 4. And you're fucking swimming anyway so maybe you should be in the
> tri forums
Dumbass -
Sure I swim, but I also know how to handle a bike in a pack.
The great majority of these triathletes do not. They're getting better
ever since they started the draft legal thing, but even so you'll see
some races where they do stuff like have huge pileups at a non
attacking section when their getting ready for entering the transition
zone to the run.
Freds. A lot of them have Cat 1 engines with Cat 5 pack handling
skills.
Another problem is: I don't think most of the age group races are
draft legal. The people that do that are going to continue to be
Freds. There's no incentive to learn handling skills.
Anton Berlin
Agreed - they mainly handle packs like shit - I even had one say
something to me once - he has no idea how close he came to getting an
introduction to meet Mr. Curb
Brad Anders
I love that vid. I really love it when the girl in black who crashed
finally gets going, and proceeds to veer straight across the road, in
front of oncoming riders, then veer back, all without looking. I also
like the girl with the dangling yellow shoe, wish they'd tracked her,
I wanted to see what happened when it got caught in her rear wheel.
Brad Anders
Then, there's this
Amit Ghosh
dumbass,
anyone who is good in one aerobic discipline can potentially be good
in another.
triathlism sucks because it is a clumsy mash up of three different
sports. even if you like chinese food, french food and italian food,
it doesn't mean it's all good in the same meal.
plus triathletes manly come from two different camps, OCD runners who
think they got dropped in the crosswind because they ate too much
gluten and grim corporate types who want to put everything into a
spreadsheet and look around for someone to pay instead of just losing
25 lbs.
--D-y
Well, yeah, I think that was contained in content.
> triathlism sucks because it is a clumsy mash up of three different
> sports. even if you like chinese food, french food and italian food,
> it doesn't mean it's all good in the same meal.
>
> plus triathletes manly come from two different camps, OCD runners who
> think they got dropped in the crosswind because they ate too much
> gluten and grim corporate types who want to put everything into a
> spreadsheet and look around for someone to pay instead of just losing
> 25 lbs.
Triathlism sucks IMHO because the bike portion is self-contradictory,
so to speak: the "athlete alone against the clock" ethos goes out the
window when there are groups of riders on the road, and there's no way
to fix the problem. Time penalties or other sanctions for "drafting"
don't solve the problem, and if the rules are fudged to allow
drafting, then it's not "athlete alone against the clock", it's a mass-
start swimming race followed by a mass start bike race followed by a
mass start running race. Noting, the first and last mass-start races
also include pacing and some amount of "drafting", it's just that
drafting in the bike segment is a much larger potential advantage.
--D-y
derf...@gmail.com
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRKajY5GlyI
>
> I love that vid. I really love it when the girl in black who crashed
> finally gets going, and proceeds to veer straight across the road, in
> front of oncoming riders, then veer back, all without looking. I also
> like the girl with the dangling yellow shoe, wish they'd tracked her,
> I wanted to see what happened when it got caught in her rear wheel.
At the very end you can see the yellow shoe in the road looking quite
lonely. So is that the dangling shoe? Or did she kick the other one
off and ride barefoot with both feet?
Someone in the comment section said she finished 13th.
No matter how many times I watch that I still laugh.
derf...@gmail.com
>
> Then, there's this
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPeNQ4pzIX8
When they say "featuring Bob Roll", I thought they were gonna show his
crashes. What a disappointment.
The funniest pro crash is still this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jeB9_VmkNc&feature=related
I love how they start falling progressively farther out from the
line.
Marco
> When they say "featuring Bob Roll", I thought they were gonna show his
> crashes. What a disappointment.
>
> The funniest pro crash is still this one:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jeB9_VmkNc&feature=related
>
> I love how they start falling progressively farther out from the
> line.
I shouldn't post this, but it's too hard to resist...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP2Srxnc1pI
...is still the funniest to me. I love how Bobke chuckles at the end.
Brad Anders
> derFaher wrote:
> > When they say "featuring Bob Roll", I thought they were gonna show his
> > crashes. What a disappointment.
>
> > The funniest pro crash is still this one:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jeB9_VmkNc&feature=related
>
> > I love how they start falling progressively farther out from the
> > line.
>
> ...is still the funniest to me. I love how Bobke chuckles at the end.
What the hell happened there? Looks like he hit something with his
rear wheel. Weird.
Fred Flintstein
If you step through it slowly you can see him clip a pedal.
Fred Flintstein
Ryan Cousineau
If you look very carefully, the shoe is visible on the ground at the
end of the clip. The rider is nowhere to be seen: she has apparently
ridden off with only one shoe.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
That video is so sweet.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
That is priceless.
Beloved Fred No. 1
> If you look very carefully, the shoe is visible on the ground at the
> end of the clip. The rider is nowhere to be seen: she has apparently
> ridden off with only one shoe.
Cinderella does triathlons. What about the 7 dwarfs ?
Brad Anders
wrote:
Duh, how obvious. Pretty clear I haven't been racing in a while.
Brad Anders
I just looked (it was even in the comments), yes, he hit a pedal, but
it looks like he cut the corner very tight, and I think his pedal hit
the concrete where the sidewalk tapers down to the corner. It explains
why he had such a hard pedal hit.
Regardless, quite the CF after he splattered.
Brad Anders
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jan/02/chrissie-wellington-inter...
>
> Best female triathlete on the planet wasn't into sports until her 20s,
> had a creepy relationship with her sex-offender first coach, and can't
> really ride a bike. I'm not making any of that up.
FWIW, when I was reading about how she wins by 30 minutes, how her
times are better than many of the men pros, how quickly she came to
the top level, how she has a really creepy coach, I realized I'd heard
this story before - Genevieve Jeanson.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
I had the exact same thought.
Marco
> If you step through it slowly you can see him clip a pedal.
Yes, that's clearly what happened. His pedal hit the curb like PBA
suggested.
So Mr. Flintsein, you've often talked about how dumb it is for guys to
pursue bike racing, and that instead they should go to college and get
on the conventional career path. I've always felt that there is
nothing wrong with trying to do both in life. If you are passionate
about bike racing, why not devote a few years and fully experience it?
The guy who slid across the pavement there in your hometown stage race
is a perfect example. He spent four years riding as a mid-level D3 pro
in the US, and got to do the big US races like Philly week, Tour of
Georgia, etc. and even some international racing. But he also got a BS
in mechanical engineering, and when he finished bike racing he went on
to get a Masters from UC Berkeley. Now he has a great job designing
telescopes and rides his bike for recreation and fitness. There are
plenty of other examples like him in US bike racing.
Fred Flintstein
What I've repeatedly stated was that being a professional cyclist
was not an acceptable career path. That story reinforces my point.
I also know people that went to many interesting places to do
interesting things while they were in school. Having to fit those
experiences around high level bike racing would have fucked it all
up for them.
If I were magically young again I would waste less time trying to
be a fast bike racer. I'm not saying I wouldn't indulge myself in
an extended adolescence, I'm saying I would spend more time in places
more interesting to be than central city crits.
As a young man I was passionate about bike racing. As I grew older,
if I was going to compete in a high level competition it had to be
within easy driving distance of where I lived. If I was going to
make a sacrifice to go someplace and do something there was no way
it was going to be to do a bike race. That's why I've never been to
masters nationals.
Fred Flintstein
Michael Press
<fd317014-1085-416b...@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
"Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 5:25 pm, "derFah...@gmail.com" <derfah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Anyone who thinks triathlon is serious should be forced to watch this
> > over and over until they are cured:
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRKajY5GlyI
>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> That video is so sweet.
Also made me think of Arte Johnson.
--
Michael Press
--D-y
wrote:
Gosh, I went to masters nationals (road race, TT) one year and it was
very interesting.
Sometimes this place reminds me of a story a friend told me long ago,
about some gathering of English majors who had gone on to not make
very much money in the world of academics.
Cycle racing is a great sport that has a fat bottom line for only a
few participants. Um, didn't we know that going in?
--D-y
--D-y
Any comparison of bike handling between the members of the Euro pro
peloton and those tri-girls is gratuitous.
But, WTH: Let's compare getting over the line at 40mph on an
absolutely greasy road surface-- look at the soapy trails the fallers
leave behind-- with not being able to hop on your bike and get your
feet into your shoes without falling down or swerving wildly before
falling down and taking other riders out in the process.
(cue the music from Jeopardy-- dah dah dah dah, dum de dum...)
Did we get real yet?
--D-y
Fred Flintstein
> Gosh, I went to masters nationals (road race, TT) one year and it was
> very interesting.
>
> Sometimes this place reminds me of a story a friend told me long ago,
> about some gathering of English majors who had gone on to not make
> very much money in the world of academics.
>
> Cycle racing is a great sport that has a fat bottom line for only a
> few participants. Um, didn't we know that going in?
> --D-y
I'm glad you enjoyed yourself at masters nationals.
I've been to several editions of elite nationals. I've also been
to see the Tour a couple of times, spring classics, and 6 day
races.
I'll go see next years 'cross nationals because it's an easy drive.
But no edition of US nationals is as interesting as any spring
classic. If I compare taking a week off and doing masters nationals
and taking a week off and seeing the Gent Six Day or Flanders and
Paris-Roubaix, I think only retards go to masters nationals.
When I was in school I had a roommate that would spend a month
every summer someplace exotic. I might have been able to do that if
I wasn't busy scrimping up money for superweek entries or gas money
to go to the crit-o-the-week. In retrospect I regret doing that. If
I had it to do over I'd spend less time at bike races and more time
at interesting and exotic places.
In other words I'd treat my hobby more like a hobby.
Fred Flintstein
--D-y
wrote:
Heard that.
To extend somewhat, when I had some non-voluntary free time after the
bust in '86, I rode lots (for a Vet, anyhow), got into amazing (for
me) shape and for instance got 2nd to Scott Dickson at States RR
(Scott did a bronze-silver-gold hat trick at Vet's Nats that year,
some mixture of RR, TT, crit finishes). Very good; I went back to work
and lost that edge amazingly quickly. Meanwhile, I gained what I think
is a healthy perspective: If you're "that good", chances are you're
not doing much else in your life besides riding and resting, and I'm
just not as impressed as I once was <g>. But that year of riding was,
in retrospect, something I'm very glad to have happened while I was
still young enough to enjoy it, and I sure did.
'86 Nats RR, Indiana: someplace in the top 20 before the last time up
that #@%$ hill that Wayne Stetina said was "too hard" for Vets and
especially good because I had broken a Modolo brake spring, couldn't
find a spare or a Campy spring, either, and the sharp left corner at
the bottom was a scary affair, every time. 20th in the TT with a
1:00:37 (totally non-aero and I'm not a TT'er in the first place)
which sucked because I didn't break the Hour, but was wonderful
because, at the turnaround an Indiana State Trooper risked his life to
save mine by leaping in front of a grain truck (semi-size) who got
pissed about having to wait and dropped the clutch and started forward
just as I started my turnaround, totally committed (really really
wanting to break the Hour) to the turn, smoking it in there with no
way to get stopped and no other place to go due to spectators and
barricades. Confessing, I might have broken the Hour but I went kind
of wobbly there for awhile after the turnaround. It took some time to
get my concentration & deep breathing back; for all the adrenaline
pumping through me, I think there was a net loss of forward propulsion
<g>.
No Hour, but no Kingsbury Award (apologies for that), either. Yup,
20th in my age group and the last one to get my name in VeloNews,
complete with mention of club affiliation which was good because they
gave me some travel money to go. A far piece from Texas, don't you
know...
So, interesting!
I got to travel much later in life and what can I say, I'll always be
an American but I wouldn't mind living elsewhere until I got homesick.
Amsterdam comes to mind.
BTW, I used to very deliberately go on camping-style bike tours in the
Rockies during Stupidweek, by which pejorative I am only referencing
the Immortals who were willing to die for a TV set race prize.
"Altitude training", don't give me any crap about it! <g>
--D-y
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
wrote:
> On 1/6/2011 11:52 AM, Marco wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Fred Flintstein wrote:
>
> >> If you step through it slowly you can see him clip a pedal.
>
> > Yes, that's clearly what happened. His pedal hit the curb like PBA
> > suggested.
>
> > So Mr. Flintsein, you've often talked about how dumb it is for guys to
> > pursue bike racing, and that instead they should go to college and get
> > on the conventional career path. I've always felt that there is
> > nothing wrong with trying to do both in life. If you are passionate
> > about bike racing, why not devote a few years and fully experience it?
> > The guy who slid across the pavement there in your hometown stage race
> > is a perfect example. He spent four years riding as a mid-level D3 pro
> > in the US, and got to do the big US races like Philly week, Tour of
> > Georgia, etc. and even some international racing. But he also got a BS
> > in mechanical engineering, and when he finished bike racing he went on
> > to get a Masters from UC Berkeley. Now he has a great job designing
> > telescopes and rides his bike for recreation and fitness. There are
> > plenty of other examples like him in US bike racing.
>
> What I've repeatedly stated was that being a professional cyclist
> was not an acceptable career path. That story reinforces my point.
<snip>
Dumbass -
Why isn't it acceptable? Because he didn't make as much money?
IMO, people should do what makes them happy. Everything else is
bullshit.
Fred
That's easy to say when you have money, especially trust fund money.
If you don't have money, that whole 'do what makes you happy' line is
a crock.
Fred
Ryan Cousineau
Ryan Cousineau
Perhaps they should. But professional cycling is rarely a road to
happiness.
Beloved Fred No. 1
>> Why isn't it acceptable? Because he didn't make as much money?
>> IMO, people should do what makes them happy. Everything else is
>> bullshit.
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Perhaps they should. But professional cycling is rarely a road to
> happiness.
The road to happiness is a cul de sac.
Beloved Fred No. 1
> When I was in school I had a roommate that would spend a month
> every summer someplace exotic. I might have been able to do that if
> I wasn't busy scrimping up money for superweek entries or gas money
> to go to the crit-o-the-week. In retrospect I regret doing that. If
> I had it to do over I'd spend less time at bike races and more time
> at interesting and exotic places.
Perhaps you-now would, but you back then may have been happier at the
races than in an exotic place. Unless of course you're regretting all
the times you could have got laid.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
My parents were happier when they were poor.
derf...@gmail.com
As I get older I think I should have done more stupid & irresponsible
stuff when I was younger.
Fred Flintstein
Superweek is a waste of time and money. Spending summers
racing crits was stupid. I went to the races because I
was a dumbass. If I had been smarter I wouldn't have gone.
Bike racing is a great hobby. If I had only known.
Fred Flintstein
Fred
That's interesting, and not surprising, but it doesn't change the
validity of what I said. If you want to test your theory on 'do what
makes you happy'... give all your money away, all of it, and live only
on what you can earn going forward. Get back to us on that, 'mmkay?
Fred
A. Dumas
> If you want to test your theory on 'do what
> makes you happy'... give all your money away, all of it, and live only
> on what you can earn going forward. Get back to us on that, 'mmkay?
Total non sequitur. While happiness usually doesn't come from owning but
rather doing, money does help a lot in enabling the doing. A bike ride
makes me very happy. The bike alone cost me thousands of nickels. Roof
over my head also makes me very happy.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
Many people in this culture have the wrong ethos if they want to be
happy. I know so many people who work at jobs they don't like so they
can pay their mortgage and car payments. They've bought into this
notion that buying those things will make them happy and when it
doesn't bring them long term happiness, they don't bother to reflect
why.
IMO, what makes people happy is choosing a profession which they
enjoy.
We live in a very rich nation. No one's gonna starve. People should do
what they enjoy doing. Buying things doesn't bring happiness.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> Fred wrote:
> > If you want to test your theory on 'do what
> > makes you happy'... give all your money away, all of it, and live only
> > on what you can earn going forward. Get back to us on that, 'mmkay?
>
> Total non sequitur. While happiness usually doesn't come from owning but
> rather doing,
Bingo.
Frederick the Great
<817b13ea-5c5a-4780...@fo10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
--D-y <dusto...@mac.com> wrote:
At least they knew when they were splitting an infinitive.
--
Old Fritz
derf...@gmail.com
wrote:
> Superweek is a waste of time and money. Spending summers
> racing crits was stupid. I went to the races because I
> was a dumbass. If I had been smarter I wouldn't have gone.
I dunno ... if you can't be a dumbass when you're young, when can you
be? Working with college interns, I see too many of them who seem to
be on the grim death march to success. Even going somewhere exotic
and interesting gets turned into an exercise in achievement. There's
plenty of time for that nonsense. Race bike and be a dumbass when you
can. (just don't have the illusion that it's a career path. then
again who knows ... if you get a Ph.D. in exercise physiology was the
bike racing a wast of time?)
RicodJour
People's definition of happy differs. For instance, being miserable
makes me happy - and I'm fucking ecstatic.
> IMO, what makes people happy is choosing a profession which they
> enjoy.
Profession...telling choice of words.
> We live in a very rich nation. No one's gonna starve. People should do
> what they enjoy doing. Buying things doesn't bring happiness.
"
R
RicodJour
Col. Col de Sac - it's in the Pyrenees I believe.
R
RicodJour
>
> I got to travel much later in life and what can I say, I'll always be
> an American but I wouldn't mind living elsewhere until I got homesick.
> Amsterdam comes to mind.
Are you suggesting a RBR road trip?
R
Beloved Fred No. 1
>>
>> I got to travel much later in life and what can I say, I'll always be
>> an American but I wouldn't mind living elsewhere until I got homesick.
>> Amsterdam comes to mind.
RicodJour wrote:
> Are you suggesting a RBR road trip?
Dumas will be providing a guided tour of the bordellos and best places
to smoke weed just so Flintstein can get finally get his vacation in an
exotic place.
Beloved Fred No. 1
>> Sometimes this place reminds me of a story a friend told me long ago,
>> about some gathering of English majors who had gone on to not make
>> very much money in the world of academics.
Frederick the Great wrote:
> At least they knew when they were splitting an infinitive.
Shirley that's something Liz does ?
--D-y
As a friend once said, I prefer to live in a colony of hermits.
Similar for travel arrangements.
--D-y
--D-y
> --D-y wrote:
> >> Sometimes this place reminds me of a story a friend told me long ago,
> >> about some gathering of English majors who had gone on to not make
> >> very much money in the world of academics.
> Frederick the Great wrote:
> > At least they knew when they were splitting an infinitive.
(BF#1 wrote):
> Shirley that's something Liz does ?
Hey Fred, that's what it pays. Don't complain!
"To not make" is good English. Communication, please, and maybe a
little creativity, a little syncopation-- or maybe just being
oblivious of silly "rules".
Shakespeare. Beethoven. Just two examples of people who created on a
far, far higher plane. Point being: People complained about
Shakespeare's use of the language, and other people walked out of
presentations of Beethoven's music. Be glad you weren't one of them,
they missed a good show.
Again, despite our best efforts with the handbasket, Hell doesn't seem
to be getting any closer. Relax, enjoy the trip.
--D-y
Frederick the Great
<d1efad63-2d91-430a...@c2g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
--D-y <dusto...@mac.com> wrote:
Excuuuuse _Me_, William Snakeshit.
--
Old Fritz
Fred Flintstein
I've been to Amsterdam. They have McDonalds and you can get your
frites with mayo there.
If you want you can have chocolate with every meal there. Although
fuck if I get the point of butter sandwiches with sprinkles for
breakfast.
Fred Flintstein
--D-y
> In article
> <d1efad63-2d91-430a-a2be-e267a2820...@c2g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
Excuuuused! (Nonstandard spelling in service of communication noted
and recorded)
--D-y
Amit Ghosh
<kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dumbass -
>
> Why isn't it acceptable? Because he didn't make as much money?
>
> IMO, people should do what makes them happy. Everything else is
> bullshit.
>
> thanks,
dumbass,
i'm all for bike racing and any sports.
the problem with sports though is that if you do well you get a huge
emotional boost and if you do poorly you feel humiliated and ashamed.
these feelings are powerful and it causes people to lose perspective.
i'm sure you know what i'm talking about.
Amit Ghosh
dumbass,
there's a fairly large body of work that looks at what brings
satisfaction and dissatisfaction.
it is accepted that causes of unhappiness are distinct from the causes
of happiness. having money might not make a person happy, but being
poor will cause them to be unhappy.
it is certainly possible to be poor and happy, but if you feel
deprived, lack autonomy or are in a constant state of anxiety it will
be hard to be happy.
Fred Flintstein
> I got to travel much later in life and what can I say, I'll always be
> an American but I wouldn't mind living elsewhere until I got homesick.
> Amsterdam comes to mind.
>
> Rockies during Stupidweek, by which pejorative I am only referencing
> the Immortals who were willing to die for a TV set race prize.
> "Altitude training", don't give me any crap about it!<g>
> --D-y
http://www.sylviarimm.com/seejanewin.html
I haven't read the book. But the author has a radio program and I've
heard her talk about it. One of the correlating factors for success
among women is travel as children. And for all the boners we get in
this country over lessons of leadership and self discipline learned
in athletic competition, that wasn't highly correlated with success.
A couple of years ago I realized that my kid and I could take in the
Gent Six Day and the World Cup cyclocross race at Koksijde over the
Thanksgiving holiday and not miss any school. And while some people
may look askance at rolling in each night at 2:30AM or so with your
twelve year old kid, it meant there was almost no jet lag as a result
of the trip. And it wasn't that expensive, November in Belgium is
pretty off season. These days she bugs me about going back.
I think she's much better off with experiences like that than if I
had gotten her hooked on self esteem through some stupid crap like
bike racing.
Fred Flintstein
--D-y
wrote:
This is an indirect boost in self-esteem through bike racing <g>.
This sort of unconventionality is to be applauded. Applause!
BTW, stating the obvious: bugging you about going back is your success-
o-meter.
Nothing like seeing the big boys run. Once for me, Prologue TdF in
Luxembourg, and also Worlds in Co. Sprgs. That's twice, twice for
me...
--D-y
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
One's profession is what most adults in this culture spend the
greatest proportion of their waking hours doing. That's why I used
those words. Check this out:
http://www.isnare.com/?aid=110483&ca=Leadership
Why 77% Of Americans Hate Are Job Haters...4 Steps To Making Work Work
Only 6 percent of Americans say they love their jobs. Anywhere from 50
to 90 percent say they are job haters, depending on the survey.
According to a Gallup Poll, with similar findings reported by
Entrepreneur Magazine, approximately 77 percent of Americans hate
their job.
<snip><end>
The article claims that bosses can make workplace changes to help
change the great level of dissatisfaction, but I doubt that it would
do that much.
I think the problem is deeper: the great majority of people choose
jobs which will make them the most money rather than a job which
delivers "doing something that one enjoys".
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
It just takes an adjustment in expectations.
I've seen it in hiring circus performers. I love dealing with Russians
- they've got world class skills and for a given gig salary they're
much more content than an American who has way less skill. One of my
Russian friends explained it simply, "In Russia, I only had hot water
3 months out of the year". They're happy to have hot water, but the
Americans are bummed if they can't buy the same car or live in the
same neighborhood as the lawyers, stockbrokers, pharmaceutical
salepeople, et al. for whom they perform.
In the United States we're conditioned to "keep up with the Joneses"
when really, there's no need. No one needs to starve in modern,
industrialized economies.
Amit Ghosh
<kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
dumbass,
that is a natural human tendency and not uniquely american. people
become upset if they feel deprived relative to others around them.
this is what caused the french revolution and the collapse of many
other monarchies.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> On Jan 8, 11:34 pm, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
>
> <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > They're happy to have hot water, but the
> > Americans are bummed if they can't buy the same car or live in the
> > same neighborhood as the lawyers, stockbrokers, pharmaceutical
> > salepeople, et al. for whom they perform.
>
> > In the United States we're conditioned to "keep up with the Joneses"
> > when really, there's no need. No one needs to starve in modern,
> > industrialized economies.
>
> dumbass,
>
> that is a natural human tendency and not uniquely american. people
> become upset if they feel deprived relative to others around them.
Dumbass -
The point is, in modern industrialized societies, there is no need for
this. Even the poor people are fat.
Beloved Fred No. 1
> this. Even the poor people are fat.
The poor people are especially fat, the rich(er) are more likely to be
health conscious.
Michael Press
<3428b2b5-8e87-4764...@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>,
--D-y <dusto...@mac.com> wrote:
1. You are not a master of English prose.
2. It is clear that `Excuuuuse' is deliberate.
3. You did not know you that split an infinitive.
4. An academic would know when he split an infinitive,
putting him one up on you.
--
Michael Press
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
True, but I think it has to do more with status than health. "you can
never be too rich or too thin" - Wallis Simpson, Duchess of Windsor.
The reason I pointed this out was that prior to the Industrial
Revolution, success in competition for resources had a direct impact
on whether or not a person was able to pass his/her genetic
information to the next generation. Poorer people were much more
subject to the ravages of disease and famine.
In industrialized economies, this is no longer true. Moreover, not
only are poor people fatter, they reproduce at a higher rate. The
instinct to keep up with the Joneses is an anthropological/
evolutionary relic which has outlived its purpose.
A. Dumas
> If you want you can have chocolate with every meal there. Although
> fuck if I get the point of butter sandwiches with sprinkles for
> breakfast.
Point? Deliciousness.
--D-y
> In article
> <3428b2b5-8e87-4764-ba07-ce0976d4b...@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>,
Ho ho ho-- and you are? Remember, you criticized first. See
"hypercorrection". (Hint: it's not going to get you into Heaven <g>)
> 2. It is clear that `Excuuuuse' is deliberate.
So was splitting the infinitive.
> 3. You did not know you that split an infinitive.
Rules, schmules, when they're stupid.
"Insolence is something up with which I will not put".
> 4. An academic would know when he split an infinitive,
> putting him one up on you.
Then we're back to the room full of men in threadbare tweed jackets
complaining their talents haven't been adequately compensated, even
With Tenure, and the fancy leather briefcase.
--D-y
Frederick the Great
<99a79463-8937-4135...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
--D-y <dusto...@mac.com> wrote:
What did I attempt to correct? Exactly?
Use only my exact words for support.
>
> > 2. It is clear that `Excuuuuse' is deliberate.
>
> So was splitting the infinitive.
I do not believe you. If you had, then you would have
said so after my first reply, not after all the hints
I gave you.
> > 3. You did not know you that split an infinitive.
>
> Rules, schmules, when they're stupid.
Again, not what I was talking about.
> "Insolence is something up with which I will not put".
>
> > 4. An academic would know when he split an infinitive,
> > putting him one up on you.
>
> Then we're back to the room full of men in threadbare tweed jackets
> complaining their talents haven't been adequately compensated, even
> With Tenure, and the fancy leather briefcase.
Ride a hundred miles in their shoes, have you?
_This_ is my initial point. You take a gratuitous
swipe at academics with no experience; and here is
the good part: the swipe does not even support your
argument that pouring all of one's time into
bike racing is a long term good for somebody.
Your argument for bicycle racing as a primary
occupation applies just as well to academia
as a primary occupation.
--
Old Fritz
Amit Ghosh
> Then we're back to the room full of men in threadbare tweed jackets
> complaining their talents haven't been adequately compensated, even
> With Tenure, and the fancy leather briefcase.
>
dumbasss,
don't let the professors fool you. they do well for themselves, and
academic jobs come with many perks.
Amit Ghosh
<kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> In industrialized economies, this is no longer true. Moreover, not
> only are poor people fatter, they reproduce at a higher rate. The
> instinct to keep up with the Joneses is an anthropological/
> evolutionary relic which has outlived its purpose.
>
dumbass,
we can't totally change your brains. we all need some autonomy, some
security and a certain amount of personal attention to be happy.
you're right , that buying things will not make you happy (in the long
term sense). poor people in industrialized countries may more than
adequate calories, but that also isn't enough to be happy.
Beloved Fred No. 1
>> If you want you can have chocolate with every meal there. Although
>> fuck if I get the point of butter sandwiches with sprinkles for
>> breakfast.
A. Dumas wrote:
> Point? Deliciousness.
And its exotic, if not bohemian.
Fred
Perhaps some are, but not all, AND they aren't fat from overeating,
they're fat from improperly eating and doing nothing active.
Fred
--D-y
> What did I attempt to correct? Exactly?
Split infinitive.
> Use only my exact words for support.
> > > 2. It is clear that `Excuuuuse' is deliberate.
>
> > So was splitting the infinitive.
>
> I do not believe you. If you had, then you would have
> said so after my first reply, not after all the hints
> I gave you.
OK, let's split hairs, too. I wrote "to not make" deliberately, to
emphasize "not". I didn't think about splitting the stupid infinitive
per se.
> > > 3. You did not know you that split an infinitive.
I didn't no-tice that I split an infinitive.
> Ride a hundred miles in their shoes, have you?
> _This_ is my initial point. You take a gratuitous
> swipe at academics with no experience;
Academics with no experience (newly hired instructors) start at
$38,000 at UT Austin.
High salary for profs is $150,000. Nothing like even one decent-
selling book, not to mention making a Best Seller list and then they
make a movie with your story.
It's like people in the music department complaining about how much
money Paul McCartney has and he doesn't even know theory.
> and here is
> the good part: the swipe does not even support your
> argument that pouring all of one's time into
> bike racing is a long term good for somebody.
> Your argument for bicycle racing as a primary
> occupation applies just as well to academia
> as a primary occupation.
I argued for bike racing as a long-term and/or primary occupation? I
don't think so.
My position, and I have walked the walk despite being scorned for "not
being ambitious" (i.e., making a lot of money) is that indeed, people
should do what they enjoy, as much as possible, and they can be as
happy as doing what you want will let you be.
Especially because, no matter what you do, someone is going to be in
your face trying to take the joy out of life-- you know what I mean,
Vern?
--D-y
--D-y
English dept. employees (instructor ---> profs) make $38,000-$150,000
at UT Austin, according to public statement.
Gov't profs make a high of $225,000.
Bidness profs, high is almost $350,000.
Head football coach Mack Brown makes $5.1 million, after a recent
$3,000,000 raise. Now *there's* a "slam on academia" <g>.
--D-y
Michael Press
<8958c1de-e06f-4ffb...@s5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
--D-y <dusto...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Jan 9, 2:34 pm, Frederick the Great <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > What did I attempt to correct? Exactly?
>
> Split infinitive.
Wrong.
> > Use only my exact words for support.
>
> > > > 2. It is clear that `Excuuuuse' is deliberate.
> >
> > > So was splitting the infinitive.
> >
> > I do not believe you. If you had, then you would have
> > said so after my first reply, not after all the hints
> > I gave you.
>
> OK, let's split hairs, too. I wrote "to not make" deliberately, to
> emphasize "not". I didn't think about splitting the stupid infinitive
> per se.
Academics that you deride know when they do.
And if somebody finds academia to be their passion?
--
Michael Press
Fredmaster of Brainerd
Microbrains, both of you :
"To not make very much money"
connotes something subtly different than
"To make not very much money"
This should not be hard to figure out.
That said, busting on English majors for becoming
academics and complaining or not complaining
about their meager salaries is weak. If there
is any occupation in these United States whose
practitioners don't engage in bonding by griping about
pay, they're flat overpaid. Fuck, even incompetent
bankers and Enron traders gripe about not getting
bonuses. Sure, academics know going in that they
will get paid less than businessmen, but this is not a
free ticket for society to pay teachers low wages and
demand that they not gripe.
Fredmaster Ben
underpaid for giving free advice on Usenet
Beloved Fred No. 1
> Fredmaster Ben
> underpaid for giving free advice on Usenet
Consider submitting a grant request.
Anton Berlin
> IMO, people should do what makes them happy. Everything else is
> bullshit.
>
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
One day I am going to vote you into the Ayn Rand friendship club and
get you a lifetime subscription to Reason magazine.
Anton Berlin
> My parents were happier when they were poor.
>
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
What about you ?
It's one thing to create with some freedom as you've done but at the
same time you've benefited from society and others sacrifices. What
have you given back to the equation?
"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."
Horace Mann
Anton Berlin
> As I get older I think I should have done more stupid & irresponsible
> stuff when I was younger.
It's hard to sleep under a bridge on the Rhine, stay out late chasing
girls 5 nights a week, or spend a month in Goa after a certain point
of youth.
Anton Berlin
> We live in a very rich nation. No one's gonna starve. People should do
> what they enjoy doing. Buying things doesn't bring happiness.
>
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Money doesn't buy happiness. It buys freedom.
Too often - freedom to live a meaningless existence.
Anton Berlin
>
> Head football coach Mack Brown makes $5.1 million, after a recent
> $3,000,000 raise. Now *there's* a "slam on academia" <g>.
> --D-y
Under such a system - drug barons and weapons trading should be
completely legalized and unregulated.