Today is 20th Anniversary of John Frey's 47:35 40K in Moriarty New Mexico
Choppy Warburton
20+ years later.
Congratulations to John.
Anton Berlin
Frey - Bostick and Carolyn Donnelly all still holding records from
1990
Magilla Gorilla
All these records could easily have been broken by any of several modern
day pros. However, since there's no money involved in doing it, what's the
fucking point? A lot of people from Carl's era were obsessed with these
silly 'records' that got you nothing but a place in the back of the USCF
rules manual. Those days are gone and thank God for that.
None of those people who hold those records have a house like Lance's (or
any number of doped up pros).
Real pro racing is about money, not these stupid John Howard-like records
that don't mean a hill of fucking beans. You people think like baboons.
Magilla
Anton Berlin
Magilla - you're totally fucking wrong -
Armstrong - as an example tried on at least 4 occasions to do the hour
record - Moscow, Bordeaux, the Springs and Carson City. Even in his
best years he was unable to hold the pace needed in testing.
I thnk Frey at one time held all of the amateur records on the
velodrome from 5KM to an hour. Not sure but a group more than likely
including Frey holds the 100K TT record for the US.
Many TT events are one way - downhill - or four corners and don't
compare apples to apples. If it's so easy to break why hasn't anyone
done it anywhere in 20 years?
PS - where's your records ? I didn't see any apes listed.
Scott
> Anton Berlin wrote:
> > On Sep 2, 8:52 am, Choppy Warburton <choppywarbur...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Like Jesse Owens and Bob Beamon's long jumps - the record still stands
> > > 20+ years later.
>
> > > Congratulations to John.
>
> > Frey - Bostick and Carolyn Donnelly all still holding records from
> > 1990
>
> >http://www.usacycling.org/forms/records.pdf
>
> All these records could easily have been broken by any of several modern
> day pros.
>
Dumbass,
The reason that the records have never been broken is that shortly
after they were set, the road was resurfaced using chip seal. What
used to be an incredibly smooth road is now rough and not really
suitable for record breaking efforts. It's just that simple, the road
is slow now.
Anton Berlin
> The reason that the records have never been broken is that shortly
> after they were set, the road was resurfaced using chip seal. What
> used to be an incredibly smooth road is now rough and not really
> suitable for record breaking efforts. It's just that simple, the road
> is slow now.
"This is a national tragedy - not a single smooth road anywhere in the
United States in the last 20 years ! The Russkies are getting ahead
of us - we must not allow a smooth road gap !!!! "
Anton 'Strangelove' Berlin
Kurgan Gringioni
"Anton Berlin" <truth...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2bfbbcba-9220-4ac2...@u31g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
Dumbass -
I'll guess the Russians don't have smooth roads.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Beloved Fred No. 1
> :: "This is a national tragedy - not a single smooth road anywhere in the
> :: United States in the last 20 years ! The Russkies are getting ahead
> :: of us - we must not allow a smooth road gap !!!! "
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> I'll guess the Russians don't have smooth roads.
The Chinese however must be building lots of new roads.
Fredmaster of Brainerd
Moriarty NM is at 6000 feet, but you knew that. Probably all
the roads at 5000 feet in Colorado now have subdivisions
off them and are no longer usable for bike races.
I wonder if there's some good road outside Flagstaff AZ.
Probably not with good pavement though.
Fredmaster Ben
Scott
Dumbass,
Moriarty was, back in the day, the perfect place for a TT record
attempt. Super smooth road, pancake flat, perfectly aligned to take
advantage of prevailing winds, and high enough elevation to reduce
wind resistance but not so high as to affect performance. Sort of the
'perfect storm' of TT venues.
Take any part of that away and it becomes just another road. Chip
seal ruined it for future record attempts. Sure, if Indurain or
Rominger or Boardman or even Armstrong in their prime had come there,
they probably would've beaten Frey's record, IF they'd come before the
chip seal.
Brad Anders
> I wonder if there's some good road outside Flagstaff AZ.
> Probably not with good pavement though.
Lake Mary Road is pretty good, but isn't dead-flat by a long shot.
Brad Anders
Fred on a stick
> Moriarty was, back in the day, the perfect place for a TT record
> attempt. Super smooth road, pancake flat, perfectly aligned to take
> advantage of prevailing winds, and high enough elevation to reduce
> wind resistance but not so high as to affect performance. Sort of the
> 'perfect storm' of TT venues.
Moriarty is pancake flat, but pancakes aren't that flat -- I can detect
the slope with VE (about 32 meters over 18 km). Anyway, the NCNCA TT
course in Sattley, CA just got resurfaced. It's a tad lower (5000 ft)
but the surface is like buttah.
Jeff Jones
wrote:
Americans should take a leaf out of UK time trialling's rule book.
Specifically the rule that says the start and finish have to be within
1.5 miles of each other. That's as the crow flies - there is no rule
about a maximum elevation difference so you end up with courses like
this: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/R25-3L (click 'show ->
elevation profile')
The start is on a lumpy back road with a poor surface but once you get
onto the dual carriageway you drop down 150m and don't have to come
back up. That makes it 'fast'.
The UK 25 mile competition record was broken on the R25/3L last year
with 45'54 by Dave McCann (AFAIK Wiggins, Millar, Thomas et al have
never ridden it - they would go even quicker).
Chris Boardman had the previous record at 45'57, which he'd held since
1993. That was on a course without a massive elevation difference,
just a hell of a lot of traffic.
Scott
> On Sep 4, 3:07 am, Fred on a stick <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > On 9/3/2010 4:06 PM, Scott wrote:
>
> > > Moriarty was, back in the day, the perfect place for a TT record
> > > attempt. Super smooth road, pancake flat, perfectly aligned to take
> > > advantage of prevailing winds, and high enough elevation to reduce
> > > wind resistance but not so high as to affect performance. Sort of the
> > > 'perfect storm' of TT venues.
>
> > Moriarty is pancake flat, but pancakes aren't that flat -- I can detect
> > the slope with VE (about 32 meters over 18 km). Anyway, the NCNCA TT
> > course in Sattley, CA just got resurfaced. It's a tad lower (5000 ft)
> > but the surface is like buttah.
>
> Americans should take a leaf out of UK time trialling's rule book.
> Specifically the rule that says the start and finish have to be within
> 1.5 miles of each other. That's as the crow flies - there is no rule
> about a maximum elevation difference so you end up with courses like
> elevation profile')
>
> The start is on a lumpy back road with a poor surface but once you get
> onto the dual carriageway you drop down 150m and don't have to come
> back up. That makes it 'fast'.
>
> The UK 25 mile competition record was broken on the R25/3L last year
> with 45'54 by Dave McCann (AFAIK Wiggins, Millar, Thomas et al have
> never ridden it - they would go even quicker).
>
> Chris Boardman had the previous record at 45'57, which he'd held since
> 1993. That was on a course without a massive elevation difference,
> just a hell of a lot of traffic.
USAC rules already state that for record purposes, a TT course must be
an out-and-back.
Jeff Jones
That sounds sensible. There's not much in the way of altitude in the
UK so we have to find other ways of making amateurs look good :-)
drmofe
Chris Boardman still holds the UK 25m (40km) ITT record set in 1993 at
45:57
I think it is the longest-standing cycling record in the UK also.
If you want longevity - try Alf Engers, set the 25m record in 1959 at
55:11 and then set it again in 1978 at 49:24 (that one stood for 12
years).
/not subscribing to the "rough road = slow road" theory
/subscribing to the "something in the water back then" theory
Choppy Warburton
wind from
Fred on a stick
> /not subscribing to the "rough road = slow road" theory
Rough roads are slow -- but not that slow.
Phil H
> On Sep 4, 3:07 am, Fred on a stick <anonymous.cow...@address.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > On 9/3/2010 4:06 PM, Scott wrote:
>
> > > Moriarty was, back in the day, the perfect place for a TT record
> > > attempt. Super smooth road, pancake flat, perfectly aligned to take
> > > advantage of prevailing winds, and high enough elevation to reduce
> > > wind resistance but not so high as to affect performance. Sort of the
> > > 'perfect storm' of TT venues.
>
> > Moriarty is pancake flat, but pancakes aren't that flat -- I can detect
> > the slope with VE (about 32 meters over 18 km). Anyway, the NCNCA TT
> > course in Sattley, CA just got resurfaced. It's a tad lower (5000 ft)
> > but the surface is like buttah.
>
> Americans should take a leaf out of UK time trialling's rule book.
> Specifically the rule that says the start and finish have to be within
> 1.5 miles of each other. That's as the crow flies - there is no rule
> about a maximum elevation difference so you end up with courses like
> elevation profile')
>
> The start is on a lumpy back road with a poor surface but once you get
> onto the dual carriageway you drop down 150m and don't have to come
> back up. That makes it 'fast'.
>
> The UK 25 mile competition record was broken on the R25/3L last year
> with 45'54 by Dave McCann (AFAIK Wiggins, Millar, Thomas et al have
> never ridden it - they would go even quicker).
>
> Chris Boardman had the previous record at 45'57, which he'd held since
> 1993. That was on a course without a massive elevation difference,
> just a hell of a lot of traffic.
So, does the traffic assist the rider, ie does it go by in the same
direction creating an airflow assist?
Phil H
Fred on a stick
>> Chris Boardman had the previous record at 45'57, which he'd held since
>> 1993. That was on a course without a massive elevation difference,
>> just a hell of a lot of traffic.
>
> So, does the traffic assist the rider, ie does it go by in the same
> direction creating an airflow assist?
If the traffic is close enough, yes, it seems so. I can see it in VE plots.
Andy Coggan
And yet, records are still being set there.
I do agree, though, that the surface isn't the fastest around.
Andy Coggan
Andy Coggan
wrote:
> the NCNCA TT
> course in Sattley, CA just got resurfaced. It's a tad lower (5000 ft)
> but the surface is like buttah.
By my calculations, the Sattley course should be 30-60 s faster than
Moriarty, due to the difference in pavement quality.
Andy Coggan
Uncle Dave
>You people think like baboons.
Is this a monkey thing?
UD
Uncle Dave
Well yeah, but Chris Boardman did 45:57 in 1993 and other (less well
known) riders in the UK have beaten it too. Do you really ride time
trials just straight out, no turns? How wonderfully American, boring
as fuck...
UD
Anton Berlin
4th of July celebrations in the UK suck. It's like you guys don't
even care at all.
Phil H
In the UK, the 4th of July is called Thanksgiving.
Phil H
Scott
Yeah, but aren't the records being set in categories that have only
just recently been taken seriously, e.g. most of the older masters
categories?
It's not surprising that 50-60 y.o. guys are still setting records,
but until someone breaks the elite records, I'd say the course isn't
as fast as it once was. Frey and Bostick were very good time
trialists in their day, but there a lots of really good TT specialists
out there now. Someone should be able to break the elite record there
if the course is still up to it.
Andy Coggan
It's up for debate, but I'd say that, e.g., the tandem records or the
younger masters women's records have been "taken seriously" for quite
some time.
OTOH, I do agree with you that few riders of Frey's or Bostick's
caliber seem to have raced at Moriarty in recent years.
> It's not surprising that 50-60 y.o. guys are still setting records,
> but until someone breaks the elite records, I'd say the course isn't
> as fast as it once was. Frey and Bostick were very good time
> trialists in their day, but there a lots of really good TT specialists
> out there now. Someone should be able to break the elite record there
> if the course is still up to it.
If the pavement used to be smoother then yes, the course is slower
than it used to be. OTOH, equipment keeps getting faster, while the
UCI tries to hold things back. Thus, comparing times back then to
times now is always going to be a crapshoot....all that can be said is
that Frey (or whomever) recorded the fastest time to date under the
rules applicable at the time, and for that he/they deserve their 15
min of fame.
Andy Coggan
DirtRoadie
>..all that can be said is
> that Frey (or whomever) recorded the fastest time to date under the
> rules applicable at the time, and for that he/they deserve their 15
> min of fame.
Yes, at best we're talking about racing a bicycle.
Although there are some who, like it or not, have transcended that.
DR
Scott
Maybe global warming has something to do with it??
Uncle Dave
Letter of the Week :-)
UD
Beloved Fred No. 1
> How wonderfully American, boring as fuck...
Perhaps the brits should consider diversifying away from being just
missionaries.
Beloved Fred No. 1
> Maybe global warming has something to do with it??
Beloki knows all about melting tar.
Jeff Jones
> > Congratulations to John.
>
> Chris Boardman still holds the UK 25m (40km) ITT record set in 1993 at
> 45:57
Dave McCann broke it last year with 45'54. That was a week before he
finished 11th at the worlds, 3'40 behind Cancellara...
> I think it is the longest-standing cycling record in the UK also.
> If you want longevity - try Alf Engers, set the 25m record in 1959 at
> 55:11 and then set it again in 1978 at 49:24 (that one stood for 12
> years).
>
Beryl Burton still holds the women's 12hr record: 277.25 miles set in
1967, which was better than the men's mark at the time. No woman has
come close to that since, even with modern bikes and equipment. And
yep, they've tried.
Fred on a stick
>> Yeah, but aren't the records being set in categories that have only
>> just recently been taken seriously, e.g. most of the older masters
>> categories?
>
> It's up for debate, but I'd say that, e.g., the tandem records or the
> younger masters women's records have been "taken seriously" for quite
> some time.
Perhaps, but who takes the 90+ Tandem record seriously?
William Fred
$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> Perhaps, but who takes the 90+ Tandem record seriously?
>
The 89-yr old tandem riders who will move up in a year.
--
Bill Fred
Fred Flintstein
Dumbasses,
A local couple took a tandem title this year. I tell people
that masters tandem are like the Special Olympics because
everyone that enters gets an award.
Fred Flintstein
William Fred
news:G9qdnX8FQ6H4DRjR...@giganews.com:
>
> A local couple took a tandem title this year. I tell people
> that masters tandem are like the Special Olympics because
> everyone that enters gets an award.
>
Well sure. However my point is that there are those that are just
waiting to compete against people who are a few years older. And even
among the retards there are the hypercompetitive jerks who would do
anything to win. Those retards are ruining the Special Olympics, by the
way, and it's only a matter of time before the Killer L's clean up that
cesspool.
--
Bill Fred
(Using retard in honor of little symbol Trig)
Andy Coggan
wrote:
Hi Robert,
John Frey for one.
Andy Coggan
Andy Coggan
And as it turns out, not just last year:
According to an email I just received, today Frey/Corcoran took
another run at the 90+ tandem record on a new custom-built Dave Porter
tandem (as did Nico Toutenhoofd and his stoker on a really sweet
Tiemeyer aero tandem). Alas, it proved to be quite windy today, so our
record from last year (when John Verheul and I beat Frey/Corcoran by
10 s) still stands.
Andy Coggan
Fredmaster of Brainerd
It's a damned good thing the British got their
independence from the Americans on July 4th,
so they could turn around and sell it to
Rupert Murdoch for a mess of pottage and a
Page 3 Girl.
Fredmaster Ben
Fred
Must have missed that news due to all the writeups about RAAM.
Fred
Andy Coggan
> Like Jesse Owens and Bob Beamon's long jumps - the record still stands
> 20+ years later.
>
> Congratulations to John.
A photo of Frey and Randy Corcoran during their ride on Monday:
Andy Coggan
Fred Flintstein
What struck me as I scanned the results wasn't the times. It was the
ages of the entrants. That's a bigger threat to the event than the
road surface.
Fred Flintstein
Frederick the Great
<0c404195-70b5-4718...@i13g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Andy Coggan <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote:
There's your problem. Aero helmet pointing up into the wind.
--
Old Fritz
Fred on a stick
>> A photo of Frey and Randy Corcoran during their ride on Monday:
>>
>> http://www.nmcycling.org/
>
> There's your problem. Aero helmet pointing up into the wind.
Dumbass,
As you should've figured out by now, that's not Andy's problem. That's a
photo of Frey and Corcoran, who were trying to break the US Tandem 90+
record currently held by Cooglian and Vertool.
Frederick the Great
Yes, I know.
<http://ic2.pbase.com/v3/89/475089/2/50738722.Welltheresyourproblem.jpg>
--
Old Fritz