Fignon Passes
BLafferty
BLafferty
> RIP.
From L'Equipe
L'ancien coureur Laurent Fignon, double vainqueur du Tour de France
(1983, 1984), est décédé mardi des suites d'un cancer. Malgré la
maladie, il avait tenu son poste de consultant lors des éditions 2009 et
2010 du Tour de France. Outre ses deux succès dans la Grande Boucle,
Fignon, coureur professionnel de 1982 à 1993, a gagné également le Tour
d'Italie (1989) et plusieurs classiques, dont Milan - San Remo à deux
reprises (1988 et 1989). Il s'est aussi incliné pour 8 secondes à
l'arrivée du Tour de France 1989 derrière l'Américain Greg LeMond. Dans
son ouvrage intitulé "Nous étions jeunes et insouciants", Laurent Fignon
avait également reconnu la prise d'amphétamines et de cortisone durant
sa carrière de coureur, mais n'avait pas établi un lien direct avec la
maladie.
BLafferty
Laurent Fignon, winner of the Tour de France in 1983 and 1984, has died
from cancer aged 50, according to the French television station TF1.
Fignon was born in Paris in 1960 and began cycling in his teens. He won
the first race he rode, in 1976.
He turned professional for the Renault-Elf-Gitane team in 1982 and
quickly began winning races. The following year, aged only 23, he won
the Tour de France at the first attempt. In 1984 he won the Tour again,
taking five stage wins in the process.
Injury and illness blighted the next few years, although he still
managed to win some big races – including Flèche Wallonne in 1986, a
stage of the Tour de France at La Plagne in the Alps in 1987 and
Milan-San Remo in 1988 and 1989.
It was in 1989 that he again reached the summit of the sport, winning
the Giro d'Italia – a race he had been controversially beaten at in 1984
when the organisers cancelled a big mountain stage because of snow,
which favoured his rival Francesco Moser. It was later revealed that the
roads were clear.
The 1989 Tour was one of the greatest of all-time and saw Fignon locked
in a battle with his former team-mate Greg Lemond. They took turns to
wear the yellow jersey and it all came down to a time trial in Paris on
the final day. Fignon led by 50 seconds in the morning but Lemond, using
the revolutionary triathlon-style handlebars that are now common, beat
him to clinch the Tour by eight seconds – the narrowest margin ever.
Fignon always objected to being thought of as the man who lost the Tour
by eight seconds and would remind people he had won it twice.
He retired in 1993, after riding for the Italian Gatorade team for the
final two seasons of his career.
Fignon bought the company that organised Paris-Nice but eventually had
to sell it to ASO because of financial difficulties.
In recent years he was an acerbic but witty and analytical pundit on
French television.
Earlier this year he wrote his autobiography, We Were Young and Carefree.
SHUSSBAR
>
PARIS (AFP) – Former two-time Tour de France winner Laurent Fignon has
died aged 50 following a battle with cancer, the Pitie-Salpetriere
hospital in Paris confirmed on Tuesday.
"Valerie Fignon, his wife, is sad to annouce the death of Laurent
Fignon today," the hospital said in a statement.
The French rider won the Tour de France in 1983 and 1984, and was
runner-up in 1989 when he lost by just eight seconds, the smallest
margin in the history of the race, to American Greg LeMond.
Fignon achieved 76 victories during his career, which was later
overshadowed by positive tests for illegal substances twice in the
late 1980s.
In his book about his career, 'We Were Young and Unconcerned', Fignon
admitted taking amphetamines and cortisone during his career but did
not establish a direct link with his cancer of the digestive system.
"In those days everyone was doing it," he explained in the book. "But
it is impossible to know to what extent doping harms you.
"Whether those who lived through 1998, when a lot of extreme things
happened, will get cancer after 10 or 20 years, I really can't say."
His first victory in the world's most famous cycling race in 1983 was
helped by the fall of the yellow jersey rider Pascal Simon, but he
showed the win was no fluke by going on to win five stages and the
race the following year.
He showed his skill in all categories -- the classics and the road
races -- winning the prestigious Milan-Sanremo twice before finally
winning the Tour of Italy in 1989, five years after finishing runner-
up.
A consultant with France Television, he commentated on the Tour de
France in 2009 and 2010 despite the treatment he was receiving.
Davey Crockett
| RIP.
Today passed of the last real bike riders
In Pacem Reqiescat
--
Davey Crockett
BLafferty
> BLafferty a écrit profondement:
>
> | RIP.
>
> Today passed of the last real bike riders
>
> In Pacem Reqiescat
>
--D-y
I saw him lead the chase at World's RR in Colorado. Slamming through
that wet corner at the top of the hill with the rest fighting to stay
on his wheel. Eye-opening to say the least.
RIP
--D-y
Fred on a stick
was going, and he missed some days because of exhaustion. There was a
time a few years ago when his commentary got a little lazy but in the
last two editions of the Tour he seemed to be focused and his
observations were sharp.
RIP.
Steve Freides
> In his book about his career, 'We Were Young and Unconcerned', Fignon
> admitted taking amphetamines and cortisone during his career
Cortisone - I never understand why that's banned. It's the opposite of
an anabolic steroid, probably better labelled a catabolic steroid. I
dont' see how it could enhance performance at all. And there was that
incident a few years ago when someone got stung by a bee and had to drop
out because the treatment of choice was cortisone.
Is there any evidence that cortisone, prednisone, and the like can
actually improve a bike racer's performance? To the best of my
knowledge, they're anti-inflammatory drugs and can't help you race
faster any more than an aspirin or motrin would.
NB: I thank a lifetime of asthma for whatever knowledge I have of these
drugs, meager as such knowledge may be, and not anything sports related.
They are, quite literally, life savers in some circumstances.
-S-
RicodJour
> SHUSSBAR wrote:
> > In his book about his career, 'We Were Young and Unconcerned', Fignon
> > admitted taking amphetamines and cortisone during his career
>
> Cortisone - I never understand why that's banned. It's the opposite of
> an anabolic steroid, probably better labelled a catabolic steroid. I
> dont' see how it could enhance performance at all. And there was that
> incident a few years ago when someone got stung by a bee and had to drop
> out because the treatment of choice was cortisone.
>
> Is there any evidence that cortisone, prednisone, and the like can
> actually improve a bike racer's performance? To the best of my
> knowledge, they're anti-inflammatory drugs and can't help you race
> faster any more than an aspirin or motrin would.
You don't believe there is a connection between pain management and
performance?
R
derf...@gmail.com
> L'ancien coureur Laurent Fignon, double vainqueur du Tour de France
ah ha. so Fignon was a LANCE-ian, eh? doesn't that tarnish his memory
in your eyes?
BLafferty
What's a Lance-ian? LOL!
Fignon befriended Armstrong in the mid-1990s and obtained a cancer
treatment consultation through Armstrong a year or so ago. Any PEDs
used by Fignon are of an older cycling world than the ones Armstrong
came to the top in.
IMO, Fignon was a far more complete and greater champion than Armstrong.
Consider
2 TdF
1 Giro (a second win stolen from him in 1984 by organizers claiming a
mountain road was closed due to snow when it wasn't. Stage cancelled.
Moser didn't have to climb and won Giro)
2 Criterium International
1 Fleche Walloon
2 Milan-San Remo
1 Grand Prix des Nations
1 Ruta Mexico
1 French Championship
Panache level 8 out of ten
-----------------------------------------------------
Armstrong:
1 World RR
1 Classica San Sebastian
7 TdF (?)
1 Grand Prix des Nations
2 Dauphine Libere
1 GP Mide Libere
Panache level 2 (maybe)
Fred on a stick
Remember "The Look" when Armstrong turned around to look at Ullrich at
the bottom of the Alpe d'Huez? Early in that stage Armstrong was hanging
back over the Madeleine and the Glandon, getting up off his saddle,
looking uncomfortable. Telekom was at the front of the peloton hoping to
put the hurt on Armstrong. The other commentators were going nuts,
babbling about LANCE's grimaces and his position at the back of the
first group (I, of course, didn't see Phil or Paul but apparently they
were saying the same kinds of things). Fignon kept laughing at the other
guys and whenever they went off like that he'd dismissively snort, "he's
bluffing."
Magilla Gorilla
> RIP.
This just goes to show that fitness has little to do with health.
I always liked Fignon. But he evidently didn't have the "will" to beat
cancer like Lance. That's what makes Lance such a great champion - he
beat cancer and other people can't do that because they're not the great
champion he is.
Thanks,
Magilla
Kyle Legate
> RIP.
The Professor is dead; long live The Professor.
--D-y
Left out a Tour of Luxembourg win, and the '96 Fleche-Wallonne win
(where, due to too much "panache", he didn't win Liege-Bastogne-Liege)
and the Tour Dupont win.
Too bad about his failure in LBL but he did get second. Ardennais
Weekend? There's a feather in your palmares.
That Worlds win on the Oslo skating rink didn't show panache? Could we
see your dictionary entry, please?
And the virtual Amstel... no, wait, that's that whiner Greg Lemond's
schtick.
I don't know if Fignon's alleged consultation was with Lance or the
LAF. I'd bet the LAF, much-maligned here because of the Hate Lance
factor. Um, a specialty of the LAF from my understanding, is hands-on
helping people find and get services.
And please, what in the world is "morally superior" about the doping
of earlier eras, compared to that of more modern times?
As much of a fan of Lemond's as I was back in the day, Fignon showed
who the better rider was in that '89 TdF, Lemond's legendary VO2
advantage notwithstanding.
When I emailed the Fignon organization (his cycling camp, the only
address I could find) upon first hearing of his diagnosis, with an
informal group well-wishing from my cohort, I soon got a "thank you"
from someone there, "Mr. Fignon appreciates and thanks you".
RIP
--D-y
BLafferty
Right about Fleche, I thought I put that in. Tour du Pont??
>
> Too bad about his failure in LBL but he did get second. Ardennais
> Weekend? There's a feather in your palmares.
I didn't include any second places. Davey should be able to tell us how
Fignon did in the weekend competition.
I'd like to see a computation based on the old Prestige Pernod. Mirror
du Cyclisme did something like that in the mid-80s for the top champions
up to that point. I may have it. If I do, I'll scan it and put it up
for all to see.
>
> That Worlds win on the Oslo skating rink didn't show panache? Could we
> see your dictionary entry, please?
Hence the #2 for panache.
>
> And the virtual Amstel... no, wait, that's that whiner Greg Lemond's
> schtick.
>
> I don't know if Fignon's alleged consultation was with Lance or the
> LAF. I'd bet the LAF, much-maligned here because of the Hate Lance
> factor. Um, a specialty of the LAF from my understanding, is hands-on
> helping people find and get services.
I don't know if he went through LAF. My impression was that Armstrong
hooked him up, probably in Houston.
>
> And please, what in the world is "morally superior" about the doping
> of earlier eras, compared to that of more modern times?
I never used the term " morally superior." Less effective is what it
was. Almost quaint by the standards of the past 18 years or so.
>
> As much of a fan of Lemond's as I was back in the day, Fignon showed
> who the better rider was in that '89 TdF, Lemond's legendary VO2
> advantage notwithstanding.
I agree that Fignon was the better overall rider in that race, if not
the winner which could mean he was the better rider. :-) Fignon did,
IMO, make the race with his, dare I say it, panache.
>
> When I emailed the Fignon organization (his cycling camp, the only
> address I could find) upon first hearing of his diagnosis, with an
> informal group well-wishing from my cohort, I soon got a "thank you"
> from someone there, "Mr. Fignon appreciates and thanks you".
Nice. RIP indeed.
>
> RIP
> --D-y
Kurgan Gringioni
Kurgan Gringioni
"BLafferty" <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:EIGdnUwhv6jlpeDR...@giganews.com...
: >
: > And please, what in the world is "morally superior" about the doping
: > of earlier eras, compared to that of more modern times?
:
: I never used the term " morally superior." Less effective is what it
: was. Almost quaint by the standards of the past 18 years or so.
Dumbass -
Doping is equal opportunity cheating. The methods which were available in
Fignon's era were able to be used by *all* the competitors and the methods
available today are able to be used by *all* the competitors. The riders
whom are best able to manage the combination of training, diet, health,
tactics, genetics, pharmaceuticals, team politics and rest/recovery are the
ones who succeed.
The times change, the equipment changes, the riders change, the science of
training changes, the knowledge of diet changes, the drugs change, the teams
change, but overall, the equation remains the same. There isn't any one
thing that makes a racer successful - the best ones are good at all of them.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Mr. Slate
> RIP.
He was probably my favorite rider after Lemond. I loved the spectacles!
Gutsy brash character, fearless descender, never forget the drama when he
collapsed losing by 8 seconds in 1989. Loved his gutsy comeback too,
although short lived. Glad he was able to finish his book too, which should
increase sales after his death now.
BLafferty
This has been discussed here before. There is a qualitative difference
that is not dependent on whether or not everyone was doing it. Pre-EPO
most of the PEDs either blocked pain or aided in recovery. They were
not direct performance enhancers. If anything, the doping post-1992 or
thereabouts, leveled the field amongst the dopers to an extent never
seen previously.
Magilla Gorilla
> SHUSSBAR wrote:
>
> > In his book about his career, 'We Were Young and Unconcerned', Fignon
> > admitted taking amphetamines and cortisone during his career
>
> Cortisone - I never understand why that's banned. It's the opposite of
> an anabolic steroid, probably better labelled a catabolic steroid. I
> dont' see how it could enhance performance at all. And there was that
> incident a few years ago when someone got stung by a bee and had to drop
> out because the treatment of choice was cortisone.
>
> Is there any evidence that cortisone, prednisone, and the like can
> actually improve a bike racer's performance? To the best of my
> knowledge, they're anti-inflammatory drugs and can't help you race
> faster any more than an aspirin or motrin would.
Jackass,
Reducing inflammation, pain, and swelling is great to facilitate recovery
from a variety of aches and pains associated with training/racing. Stop
being an idiot.
>
>
> NB: I thank a lifetime of asthma for whatever knowledge I have of these
> drugs, meager as such knowledge may be, and not anything sports related.
> They are, quite literally, life savers in some circumstances.
>
> -S-
Oh, you have asthma....that explains why you're such an idiot. You're also
a doper.
Thanks,
Magilla
Kurgan Gringioni
Dumbass -
There's an era beyond 1992. The advent of the 50% hematocrit limit, then the
advent of the EPO test itself.
The Wild Wild West Era of bike racing was the period between 1992 and the
advent of the 50% limit. I believe it was 1998 - Pantani got thrown out of
the Giro for his 54% and suddenly Mr. 60% (Riis) no longer had world beating
form and resorted to throwing TT bikes.
It's back to the same old equation. A rider has to manage all the things I
listed in the previous post and then some. It's not a simple matter of
doping/not doping.
Magilla Gorilla
> "BLafferty" <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:EIGdnUwhv6jlpeDR...@giganews.com...
> : >
> : > And please, what in the world is "morally superior" about the doping
> : > of earlier eras, compared to that of more modern times?
> :
> : I never used the term " morally superior." Less effective is what it
> : was. Almost quaint by the standards of the past 18 years or so.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Doping is equal opportunity cheating. The methods which were available in
> Fignon's era were able to be used by *all* the competitors and the methods
> available today are able to be used by *all* the competitors. The riders
> whom are best able to manage the combination of training, diet, health,
> tactics, genetics, pharmaceuticals, team politics and rest/recovery are the
> ones who succeed.
You left out the part where if they are caught doping and DQ'ed, then all that
other stuff is meaningless.
>
>
> The times change, the equipment changes, the riders change, the science of
> training changes, the knowledge of diet changes, the drugs change, the teams
> change, but overall, the equation remains the same. There isn't any one
> thing that makes a racer successful - the best ones are good at all of them.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
You left out that most of pro cycling is about genetics. Not training, Not
diet, not anything. Just genetics.
That's why dumb people religiously go home and analyze their power meter data
and go on these weird glutin-free diets, or hire a fucking Internet
coach...they think it will make them a better rider.
But it won't.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
All the other things are easy to manage. Therefore, doping becomes the rate
limiting factor at the pro level.
Thanks,
Magilla
Frederick the Great
<8a003c1c-eea5-44c7...@e14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
SHUSSBAR <shus...@gmail.com> wrote:
[obituary]
The Jackasses give his doping history.
--
Old Fritz
Fred Flintstein
> You left out that most of pro cycling is about genetics. Not training, Not
> diet, not anything. Just genetics.
Dumbass,
Good troll. When are you going to tell us about accelerating
in velodrome turns?
Fred Flintstein
William R. Mattil
>
> I always liked Fignon. But he evidently didn't have the "will" to beat
> cancer like Lance.
Please go fuck yourself.
Thanks
Bill
--
William R. Mattil
Kurgan Gringioni
"Magilla Gorilla" <m.go...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C7D47BC...@sandiegozoo.org...
: > :
: > : This has been discussed here before. There is a qualitative
Dumbass -
I put genetics at #1.
And the other things aren't necessarily easy to manage. Depends upon the
individual. I'm sure you've got some stories about "so and so was talented
as fuck but was unable to do <this> so he sucked" stories to tell.
Kurgan Gringioni
Dumbass -
Weight too.
If a guy is able to race at 160 but doesn't have the discipline to get the
weight below 175 . . . .
Kurgan Gringioni
"Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinth...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:i5jiul$nqg$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
::
:: You left out that most of pro cycling is about genetics. Not training,
: Not
:: diet, not anything. Just genetics.
:
:
:
: Dumbass -
:
: Weight too.
:
: If a guy is able to race at 160 but doesn't have the discipline to get the
: weight below 175 . . . .
:
: thanks,
:
: Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
BTW, I agree about the genetics.
Ryan Cousineau
> RIP.
To honor this great champion's death, I would like to ask rbr to join
me in observing 8 seconds of silence.
Steve Freides
I don't know the answer to your question, but may we see if it's a
proper question to ask in this context?
Not everything that manages pain is banned. The purpose of taking
corticosteroids is to reduce inflammation. Naproxen and ibuprofen also
reduce inflammation, and they block pain signals (cox inhibitors). I
don't believe their is a pain signal blocking mechanism at work in
corticosteroids, although reducing inflammation may (obviously) make
something hurt less.
I don't think pain management can be a cause to ban a substance in
bicycle racing. Obviously drugs that can cause a reduction in pain but
have serious other problems - let's say, oh, heroin - should be banned,
but short courses of corticosteroids generally have no ill side effects,
and are great for things like bee stings.
-S-
Fred Flintstein
Lemond could learn much about dignity from Fignon.
Fred Flintstein
Fredmaster of Brainerd
wrote:
From the Times/IHT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/01/sports/cycling/01iht-FIGNON.html
"I don’t want to die at 50, but if it’s not curable, what can I do?”
“I love life. I love to laugh, travel, to read, eat well, just like a
good
Frenchman,” he continued. “I am not afraid of dying, it’s just I am
not ready to die.”
RIP. Enjoy it while we can.
Ben
Magilla Gorilla
You shut the fuck up, William Tell. Don't get all righteous with me just
because some poneytail Frenchman doper kicks the bucket.
If you were a real man you'd use those little telescopes of yours to look
into the teenager's window across the street when she comes out of the
shower instead of looking into the sky like some kind of Star Trek faggot.
In case you haven't heard, we already have the Hubble telescope that we paid
billions for. I partly own that fucking thing. What's the point of looking
at the sky with your KayBee Toy & Hobby gadget?
Bitch.
Magilla
--D-y
wrote:
Could be the best thing you've ever posted and that would be saying
something, dumbass.
--D-y
H. Fred Kveck
Fred on a stick <anonymou...@address.invalid> wrote:
> You could tell from listening to him on the TV broadcasts that his voice
> was going, and he missed some days because of exhaustion. There was a
> time a few years ago when his commentary got a little lazy but in the
> last two editions of the Tour he seemed to be focused and his
> observations were sharp.
>
> RIP.
Fignon was one of the guys I wish I'd seen race in person. He always seemed like a
very classy guy (Bob Schwartz is correct: LemonD could have learned *a lot* from
Fignon on the "how to comport yourself" front). I'm sorry to learn of his death.
Kurgan Gringioni
"Fred Flintstein" <bob.sc...@sbcremoveglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ZJSdnUauz7aA_uDR...@giganews.com...
Agreed.
Beloved Fred No. 1
> I always liked Fignon. But he evidently didn't have the "will" to beat
> beat cancer and other people can't do that because they're not the great
> champion he is.
Your chances of beating cancer are probably somewhat better in your
twenties than when you're 50.
Uncle Dave
> "William R. Mattil" wrote:
> > On 8/31/2010 11:08 AM, Magilla Gorilla wrote:
>
> > > I always liked Fignon. But he evidently didn't have the "will" to beat
> > > cancer like Lance.
>
> > Please go fuck yourself.
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Bill
>
> > --
>
> > William R. Mattil
>
> >http://www.celestial-images.com
>
> You shut the fuck up, William Tell. Don't get all righteous with me just
> because some poneytail Frenchman doper kicks the bucket.
Everything's "drugs drugs drugs" with you isn't it? You're
obsessed. You could probably get a pill for that.
UD
Fred Fredburger
... or any crack whore chosen at random, for that matter.
Anton Berlin
> SHUSSBAR wrote:
> > In his book about his career, 'We Were Young and Unconcerned', Fignon
> > admitted taking amphetamines and cortisone during his career
>
> Cortisone - I never understand why that's banned. It's the opposite of
> an anabolic steroid, probably better labelled a catabolic steroid. I
> dont' see how it could enhance performance at all. And there was that
> incident a few years ago when someone got stung by a bee and had to drop
> out because the treatment of choice was cortisone.
It's an old school dope - Lance did it in the 90s.
Anton Berlin
If you want to win a bike race you need to pick the right parents.
Any decent cyclist (that wasn't selling a book on how to train) will
tell you that.
Randall
> RIP.
Fignon in my mind was a great rider, but after his 2 consecutive TDF
wins he never lived up to his potential. I think it's possible that
Fignon could have won another The 89 TDF was probably won of the most
exciting TDF's I have seen. No 2 riders were probably as equally
matched.