20110208 Update on Jobst
Brad Anders
intent here is to preserve Jobst's privacy while letting those on
Usenet who have interacted with him for 20+ years know how he's
doing.
Jobst is still in Stanford's Intermediate ICU. While his condition is
stable, Jobst has had a difficult time recovering from his accident.
His alertness and lucidity aren't where they should be, and the team
at Stanford and Jobst's family are working hard to address these
problems. He is also slowly making progress in recovering from his
physical injuries.
If you're a friend of Jobst's, have ridden with him in the past, and
are local to Stanford, please consider stopping by to say hello. Jobst
has received many visitors and Olaf says the visits have helped Jobst
immensely. I suggest you call Stanford first and check on if Jobst is
receiving visitors before you stop by. I also ask for some respect for
Jobst and his family, please keep the discussion on Jobst and his
accident civil.
thanks,
Brad Anders
landotter
Thanks for the update. I wish him a speedy and complete recovery.
Jay Beattie
What injuries did he sustain -- just in general I have not gotten a
handle on whether it is neurological, orthopedic or both. -- Jay
Beattie.
Brad Anders
neurological injuries, the exact nature of them is still unclear.
RicodJour
Thanks for the update, Brad. I hope he's back on board ASAP.
R
kolldata
know his room number ? I'll send an ERD CARD say 2x3'
That said, it is good to know his brain function in unchanged from
the last we spoke.
kolldata
Jobst is o-l-d. His injury across the o-l-d spectrum is sometimes a
fatal o-l-d injury if not this week then next spring. You know, "John
Williket, PHD Emeritus Brown University aged 94 went for a walk,
slipped on the ice and died several hours later of subdural hemtoma"
When a age 27, not.
I figured when he didn't get back to us....
Fredmaster of Brainerd
Brad,
Thanks for keeping us updated.
In my limited experience with people in ICUs and
CCUs, there's sometimes a sort of hospital
disorientation effect. People can make significant
progress in recovering lucidity so that is to be hoped
for, esp. when they can move him out of the ICU.
Ben
Frederick the Great
<6e234777-e2b2-4169...@l22g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
kolldata <data...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
This jackass is a write only poster.
Does not read for content.
--
Old Fritz
Brad Anders
He's currently in Unit D – Room 332.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Hopefully, a future update will be a ride report from Jobst.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
Dan O
Yep. That and a broken femur can't be easy to take for someone who
truly loves to Ride Bike.
(I for one was never too lucid to begin with, so there you go :-)
Whole lotta love out here, Jobst. Still sending those vibes your
way. Pull through.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Why the change in user name?
pH
> intent here is to preserve Jobst's privacy while letting those on
> Usenet who have interacted with him for 20+ years know how he's
> doing.
>
> Brad Anders
Thank-you for this update, Brad. I hope everything goes well.
pH
Jay Beattie
Even with blood transfusions and major surgery to place rods or
plates, I wouldn't expect him to be in the ICU longer than the first
or second post-operative day -- even at his age. I won't speculate
though about what's going on, though.
I rode a trainer with a tib/fib fracture fixed with rods and plates
about ten days after surgery, but then I could bend at the knee. A
femur fracture lands you in a full length cast. Jobst will have to do
some one-leg trainer riding, which is surprisingly hard to do -- you
have to figure out where to put the other leg. The good part is that
you end up with an upper body from being on crutches. I can do more
push ups now than before breaking my leg/ankles. -- Jay Beattie.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Google "hand-cycle" and "trike".
I once rode a last part of a ride effectively one-legged due to knee
pain. Foot retention is a must, and it is slow going - I was almost
passed by a hand-cyclist.
--
T�m Sherm�n - 42.435731,-83.985007
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Pass the message to Jobst from all of us (I hope) - we want to see him
Ride Bike again.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
Peter Van Buren
Depending on the type of fracture, he may not need a cast. I had a mid
shaft femur fracture (from football, not cycling) and I didn't get a
cast or even a brace. I had a nail put through the femur and clamped
to the top of the hip. I remember asking my doctor something like "are
you sure I don't need a cast?" He said it wasn't necessary. I actually
stood on the leg 48 hours after having the surgery. The biggest issue
was getting the range of motion back. I think it was about three
months before I could touch my heel to my butt. I was able to ride the
stationary bike after a few weeks.
Peter.
LF
> I have been indirectly receiving updates from Olaf, Jobst's son.<snip>
Brad,
Thanks much for the update. I believe Jobst's strengths of body and
mind are great assets, and look forward to his recovery.
Best,
Larry Fieman
Marblehead, MA
Brian Huntley
$southslope.net"> wrote:
> Hopefully, a future update will be a ride report from Jobst.
Hear, Hear!
Andre Jute
And hear, hear! Let's see Jobst back in the saddle!
Thanks for the update, Brad.
Andre Jute
James
> I rode a trainer with a tib/fib fracture fixed with rods and plates
> about ten days after surgery, but then I could bend at the knee. A
> femur fracture lands you in a full length cast. Jobst will have to do
> some one-leg trainer riding, which is surprisingly hard to do -- you
> have to figure out where to put the other leg. The good part is that
> you end up with an upper body from being on crutches. I can do more
> push ups now than before breaking my leg/ankles. -- Jay Beattie.
>
I can relate. Broke a tib once. Compound fracture. Full length cast,
toes to top of the thigh. One legged ergo is not fun. Damn that
traffic island and the pole that is mounted in it.
Sounds like Jobst has some other complications. Nasty business. Hope
he makes a steady recovery.
JS.
Cicero Venatio
> I can relate. Broke a tib once. Compound fracture. Full length cast,
> toes to top of the thigh. One legged ergo is not fun. Damn that
> traffic island and the pole that is mounted in it.
>
> Sounds like Jobst has some other complications. Nasty business. Hope
> he makes a steady recovery.
>
> JS.
Something don't add up here, and I think it's because of a taboo in rbr,
a word no can mention or they'll be scorched by the others, but I'm a
brave and don't give a damn about what the sheep think, so I'll say the
word, "helmet??", so there I did it.
David Scheidt
:> I can relate. Broke a tib once. Compound fracture. Full length cast,
Jobst is on record as thinking helmets were for fools and morons,
because they caused head injuries. I doubt he was wearing one.
--
sig 63
SMS
<snip>
> Something don't add up here, and I think it's because of a taboo in rbr,
> a word no can mention or they'll be scorched by the others, but I'm a
> brave and don't give a damn about what the sheep think, so I'll say the
> word, "helmet??", so there I did it.
OMG. You're not supposed to talk about that. The times I've seen Jobst
out riding he was not wearing a helmet, and that was his choice. No one
has stated whether or not his accident involved head impact where a
helmet would have been beneficial.
But you're correct, there's kind of a taboo about using the h word
whenever some rather famous non-helmeted cyclist is injured or worse.
The same thing happened with Ken Kifer.
Helmut Springer
> But you're correct, there's kind of a taboo about using the h word
> whenever some rather famous non-helmeted cyclist is injured or
> worse.
Maybe it is not a taboo but the understanding that it would not add
any value to information or discussion, more the opposite.
--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer panta rhei
Duane Hebert
+1
Jay Beattie
That's wild. Did you have a CAM walker or some sort of brace? Having
no cast and weight-bearing so soon on a fixed femur is news to me.
The part of modern medicine that is startling to me is how everything
is done on an outpatient basis -- which is fine because I hate
hospitals, but anything short of a heart transplant seems to be done
at a day surgery center. Your wife gets to haul you home all groggy
and oozing blood from operative sites. -- Jay Beattie.
SMS
> The part of modern medicine that is startling to me is how everything
> is done on an outpatient basis -- which is fine because I hate
> hospitals, but anything short of a heart transplant seems to be done
> at a day surgery center. Your wife gets to haul you home all groggy
> and oozing blood from operative sites. -- Jay Beattie.
And you'll be more likely to survive if you're away from that hotbed of
disease and infection, the hospital. One HMO tried to have women that
deliver babies in the morning go home the same day. That led to threats
of legislation requiring two-day stays, and they quickly backed down.
The hospitals are now moving toward all private rooms because of
infection control.
Cam
The ICU is exactly where you need to be in some situations.
That said, you don't want to be in the ICU. Another example of need /=
want
Cam
Ronko
b86ca0...@u24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
pban...@gmail.com says...
>
>
>I have been indirectly receiving updates from Olaf, Jobst's son. My
>intent here is to preserve Jobst's privacy while letting those on
>Usenet who have interacted with him for 20+ years know how he's
>doing.
>
>Jobst is still in Stanford's Intermediate ICU. While his condition is
>stable, Jobst has had a difficult time recovering from his accident.
>His alertness and lucidity aren't where they should be, and the team
>at Stanford and Jobst's family are working hard to address these
>problems. He is also slowly making progress in recovering from his
>physical injuries.
>
>If you're a friend of Jobst's, have ridden with him in the past, and
>are local to Stanford, please consider stopping by to say hello. Jobst
>has received many visitors and Olaf says the visits have helped
Jobst
>immensely. I suggest you call Stanford first and check on if Jobst is
>receiving visitors before you stop by. I also ask for some respect for
>Jobst and his family, please keep the discussion on Jobst and his
>accident civil.
>
>
>Brad Anders
Thanks for the update. I sent him a card although he probably doesn't
know me from Adam.
Ronko
scharf...@geemail.com says...
wear one. However it never is a strictly personal decision as a head
injury can leave you incapacitated. And then you become a burden on
others such as your immediate family.
Mike Jacoubowsky
Brad,
Thanks for keeping us updated.
In my limited experience with people in ICUs and
CCUs, there's sometimes a sort of hospital
disorientation effect. People can make significant
progress in recovering lucidity so that is to be hoped
for, esp. when they can move him out of the ICU.
Ben
====
I agree. Having Jobst as a patient could be seriously disorienting. :-)
Thanks to all for the good wishes for a big guy.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Peter Van Buren
I had no walker or brace, just crutches. I was told that I could put
50 percent of my weight on the leg to begin with. I was in a traction
bed for a week before the operation (there was concern about the
potential for a fat embolism), so I was pretty tired and had little
stamina. That may have factored in to things in that I wasn't in any
shape to try and do too much with the leg.
I broke it in 1989. It's my understanding that the type of operation I
had has been improved so there is a much smaller incision in the thigh
resulting in a shorter surgery and quicker discharge from the
hospital. I was young at the time (19) and had a simple, clean
fracture. That probably set me up for a fairly fast recovery. If the
fracture hadn't been as clean and required plates and screws (the nail
shares the load with the bone rather than just supporting the
fracture), then I may have had to deal with a cast and slower
recovery.
I had the nail removed two years later. That was ambulatory surgery
and as you mention above, I was driven home from the hospital with
blood oozing from my hip at the removal site. Unlike the first
surgery, I didn't get any morphine afterward, and I actually remember
more post-op pain from the nail removal. That subsided within a few
days.
Peter.
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:y8qdnQbTldIeLs_Q...@earthlink.com...
This thread has not been about the "why" he crashed or "what" he could have
done to avoid serious injury. Nor is it particularly relevant, since, to the
best of my recollection, Jobst has not participated in past helmet threads,
and yet most certainly has seen them. But, for the record, Jobst does not
ride with a helmet.
Kurgan Gringioni
"Brad Anders" <pban...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:80e60c43-1587-4b89...@u24g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
:. I also ask for some respect for
: Jobst and his family, please keep the discussion on Jobst and his
: accident civil.
Are we allowed to talk about drag from lenticular disc wheels?
Steven Bornfeld
> I have been indirectly receiving updates from Olaf, Jobst's son. My
> intent here is to preserve Jobst's privacy while letting those on
> Usenet who have interacted with him for 20+ years know how he's
> doing.
>
> Jobst is still in Stanford's Intermediate ICU. While his condition is
> stable, Jobst has had a difficult time recovering from his accident.
> His alertness and lucidity aren't where they should be, and the team
> at Stanford and Jobst's family are working hard to address these
> problems. He is also slowly making progress in recovering from his
> physical injuries.
>
> If you're a friend of Jobst's, have ridden with him in the past, and
> are local to Stanford, please consider stopping by to say hello. Jobst
> has received many visitors and Olaf says the visits have helped Jobst
> immensely. I suggest you call Stanford first and check on if Jobst is
> Jobst and his family, please keep the discussion on Jobst and his
> accident civil.
>
>
> Brad Anders
Thanks Brad. You, Jobst--get well quick!
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
Steven Bornfeld
I have not seen any suggestion that Jobst suffered a head injury. Does
anyone know different?
AMuzi
> : Jobst and his family, please keep the discussion on Jobst and his
> : accident civil.
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> Are we allowed to talk about drag from lenticular disc wheels?
Drag? If you need Halloween advice, I suggest two inch heel
pumps.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
landotter
> > "Brad Anders" <pband...@gmail.com> wrote
> > :. I also ask for some respect for
> > : Jobst and his family, please keep the discussion on Jobst and his
> > : accident civil.
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > Are we allowed to talk about drag from lenticular disc wheels?
>
> Drag? If you need Halloween advice, I suggest two inch heel
> pumps.
>
Pumps? I was thinking the poster wanted to do a camp Rosie the Robot.
news.suddenlink.net
"kolldata" <data...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6e234777-e2b2-4169...@l22g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Jobst is o-l-d. His injury across the o-l-d spectrum is sometimes a
> fatal o-l-d injury if not this week then next spring. You know, "John
> Williket, PHD Emeritus Brown University aged 94 went for a walk,
> slipped on the ice and died several hours later of subdural hemtoma"
> When a age 27, not.
> I figured when he didn't get back to us....
WTF "kolldata"? You're not a nice person and have no detectable sensitivity
or manners.
Were you raised by a crack whore or the equivalent?
Steve Freides
> In my limited experience with people in ICUs and
> CCUs, there's sometimes a sort of hospital
> disorientation effect. People can make significant
> progress in recovering lucidity so that is to be hoped
> for, esp. when they can move him out of the ICU.
Although I haven't read them, I have heard from a friend who is a
geriatric occupational therapist that anesthesia apparently has effects
that linger, often for months. I saw this recently, first-hand, with my
father, who is in his mid-80's. It literally was a few months until he
had all his faculties back - I was doing things like laying out his and
my mother's pills a week at a time. His hospitalization wasn't
neurological in nature - apparently it's just the anesthesia.
If anyone has any science to confirm/deny/clarify, please share.
I'm not suggesting this is responsible for Jobst's current situation,
but it may be some part of it.
-S-
Steve Freides
> On Feb 8, 8:12 pm, T�m Sherm�n� �_� <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
> $southslope.net"> wrote:
>
>> Hopefully, a future update will be a ride report from Jobst.
>
> Hear, Hear!
+1
-S-
thirty-six
wrote:
> On 2/9/2011 10:32 AM, Cicero Venatio wrote:
>
>
>
> >> I can relate. Broke a tib once. Compound fracture. Full length cast,
> >> toes to top of the thigh. One legged ergo is not fun. Damn that
> >> traffic island and the pole that is mounted in it.
>
> >> Sounds like Jobst has some other complications. Nasty business. Hope
> >> he makes a steady recovery.
>
> >> JS.
> > ---------------
> > Something don't add up here, and I think it's because of a taboo in rbr,
> > a word no can mention or they'll be scorched by the others, but I'm a
> > brave and don't give a damn about what the sheep think, so I'll say the
> > word, "helmet??", so there I did it.
>
> I have not seen any suggestion that Jobst suffered a head injury. Does
> anyone know different?
You've not been reading rbt over the last six months.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Yes, bicycle foam hats will do a lot to protect someone hit by a fast
moving motor vehicle.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
Andy Morris
> I have been indirectly receiving updates from Olaf, Jobst's son. My
> intent here is to preserve Jobst's privacy while letting those on
> Usenet who have interacted with him for 20+ years know how he's
> doing.
>
> Jobst is still in Stanford's Intermediate ICU. While his condition is
> stable, Jobst has had a difficult time recovering from his accident.
> His alertness and lucidity aren't where they should be, and the team
> at Stanford and Jobst's family are working hard to address these
> problems. He is also slowly making progress in recovering from his
> physical injuries.
>
> If you're a friend of Jobst's, have ridden with him in the past, and
> are local to Stanford, please consider stopping by to say hello. Jobst
> has received many visitors and Olaf says the visits have helped Jobst
> immensely. I suggest you call Stanford first and check on if Jobst is
> Jobst and his family, please keep the discussion on Jobst and his
> accident civil.
>
--
Andy Morris
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
>> "Brad Anders" <pban...@gmail.com> wrote :. I also ask for some
>> respect for
>> : Jobst and his family, please keep the discussion on Jobst and his
>> : accident civil.
>
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>> Are we allowed to talk about drag from lenticular disc wheels?
>
> Drag? If you need Halloween advice, I suggest two inch heel pumps.
>
Are those SPD compatible?
--
T�m Sherm�n - 42.435731,-83.985007
RicodJour
$southslope.net"> wrote:
> On 2/9/2011 2:08 PM, A. Muzi wrote:
> > Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> >> Are we allowed to talk about drag from lenticular disc wheels?
>
> > Drag? If you need Halloween advice, I suggest two inch heel pumps.
>
> Are those SPD compatible?
Presta-digious post!
R
(PeteCresswell)
> His hospitalization wasn't
>neurological in nature - apparently it's just the anesthesia.
>
>If anyone has any science to confirm/deny/clarify, please share.
No science, but based on personal experience and observation of a
couple of close family members, I would say that general
anesthesia is to be avoided if at all possible.
Couple months ago, I has the chance to talk with an
anesthesiologist and he confirmed what I suspected: nobody, but
*nobody* is doing or has done studies where they do a complete
inventory of people's neurological abilities before and after
general anesthesia.
I've seen two people's mental state take a dramatic and lasting
downturn following general anesthesia.
Also, I had general anesthesia for gall bladder surgery (couldn't
find anybody who would do it with a spinal) and afterwards my
aerobic top end dropped like a stone. Endurance was ok, just
couldn't take the same hills at the same pace - and I've never
recovered. Of course, nobody in the medical circle knows what
I'm talking about....
Had another operation a few months ago, and I held out for a
spinal. Figured I could live with partial paralysis (worst-case
scenario) but I couldn't live with losing another 10-20 IQ
points.
--
PeteCresswell
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Had general anesthesia a couple times in the last year, and I felt
normal [1] within 15 minutes of waking up.
As always, YMMV.
[1] For me, that is. :)
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
(PeteCresswell)
>
>Had general anesthesia a couple times in the last year, and I felt
>normal [1] within 15 minutes of waking up.
The possibilities are, of course, endless.... but the first thing
that comes to what's left of my mind is some sort of familial
sensitivity.
--
PeteCresswell
Jay Beattie
Not to rehash prior threads, but in an older patient, a significant
traumatic injury followed by surgery and anesthesia can have a
dramatic effect on mental status. See e.g.
http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/68/5/1786 It's not
just the anesthesia but the brain's reaction to trauma and/or shock,
among other things. -- Jay Beattie.
AMuzi
>>> His hospitalization wasn't
>>> neurological in nature - apparently it's just the anesthesia.
>>> If anyone has any science to confirm/deny/clarify, please share.
> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>> No science, but based on personal experience and observation of a
>> couple of close family members, I would say that general
>> anesthesia is to be avoided if at all possible.
>>
>> Couple months ago, I has the chance to talk with an
>> anesthesiologist and he confirmed what I suspected: nobody, but
>> *nobody* is doing or has done studies where they do a complete
>> inventory of people's neurological abilities before and after
>> general anesthesia.
>>
>> I've seen two people's mental state take a dramatic and lasting
>> downturn following general anesthesia.
>>
>> Also, I had general anesthesia for gall bladder surgery (couldn't
>> find anybody who would do it with a spinal) and afterwards my
>> aerobic top end dropped like a stone. Endurance was ok, just
>> couldn't take the same hills at the same pace - and I've never
>> recovered. Of course, nobody in the medical circle knows what
>> I'm talking about....
>>
>> Had another operation a few months ago, and I held out for a
>> spinal. Figured I could live with partial paralysis (worst-case
>> scenario) but I couldn't live with losing another 10-20 IQ
>> points.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
> Had general anesthesia a couple times in the last year, and I felt
> normal [1] within 15 minutes of waking up.
> As always, YMMV.
> [1] For me, that is. :)
Hanging out with Michael Jackson?
Nate Nagel
I've had it at least twice that I remember, and the last time, based on
how I felt when I woke up, I'm glad that I did. (muscle spasms + fresh
stitches in same muscle = not a happy and pleasant experience, even with
HD narcotics.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Nate Nagel
> I have been indirectly receiving updates from Olaf, Jobst's son. My
> intent here is to preserve Jobst's privacy while letting those on
> Usenet who have interacted with him for 20+ years know how he's
> doing.
>
> Jobst is still in Stanford's Intermediate ICU. While his condition is
> stable, Jobst has had a difficult time recovering from his accident.
> His alertness and lucidity aren't where they should be, and the team
> at Stanford and Jobst's family are working hard to address these
> problems. He is also slowly making progress in recovering from his
> physical injuries.
>
> If you're a friend of Jobst's, have ridden with him in the past, and
> are local to Stanford, please consider stopping by to say hello. Jobst
> has received many visitors and Olaf says the visits have helped Jobst
> immensely. I suggest you call Stanford first and check on if Jobst is
> Jobst and his family, please keep the discussion on Jobst and his
> accident civil.
>
>
> Brad Anders
thanks for the update, glad to hear that he is making progress even if
it is "slowly."
Any details on what exactly happened, or is that being kept private?
Steve Freides
> Per Steve Freides:
>> His hospitalization wasn't
>> neurological in nature - apparently it's just the anesthesia.
>>
>> If anyone has any science to confirm/deny/clarify, please share.
>
> No science, but based on personal experience and observation of a
> couple of close family members, I would say that general
> anesthesia is to be avoided if at all possible.
>
> Couple months ago, I has the chance to talk with an
> anesthesiologist and he confirmed what I suspected: nobody, but
> *nobody* is doing or has done studies where they do a complete
> inventory of people's neurological abilities before and after
> general anesthesia.
Sure - they won't ask a question to which they don't want one of the
likely answers. Sad, but true.
> I've seen two people's mental state take a dramatic and lasting
> downturn following general anesthesia.
I had what I guess is mild general anethesia when I had a colonscopy a
few months ago - they said some people are just groggy, but I was
completely out.. Although I thought I seemed fine, my wife thought
otherwise and said it took me a few days to get back to normal.
This _is_ a thing they should study, but imagine the uproar if a study
concludes that general anethesia is bad for you in measurable ways.
-S-
kolldata
lotta people can't hold there liquour ya know.
coupla asprin, Ripple, and off they go hold up the gas station, wave
toy guns at the Sheriff's Posse, do 135 in a 25 zone...tip over
ancient tombstones, beat up old jews...
sedated to keep him of the bike !
Duane Hebert
<snip>
> Yes, bicycle foam hats will do a lot to protect someone hit by a fast
> moving motor vehicle.
They probably won't help much against nuclear explosions, decapitation
by angry French mobs or Vogon poetry either. But if I'm sliding across
the tarmac I'm probably not thinking about French mobs. Vogon poetry
maybe...
Brad Anders
see it's been renamed and hijacked to become yet another helmet
thread, I'll just start a new one.
Brad Anders
Brad Anders
> thanks for the update, glad to hear that he is making progress even if
> it is "slowly."
>
> Any details on what exactly happened, or is that being kept private?
While there seems to be a lot of conjecture about it, not too much is
known about the details of the accident. Jobst went out early (~7 AM)
by himself on a Saturday to do a ride in the Santa Cruz mountains. On
the way over, he had a single-bike crash at the intersection of Sand
Hill and Whiskey Hill roads. From what I understand, it appears he ran
into or slid along the concrete median next to the edge of the road. I
do not know how he was found, or who called paramedics. The only
injury that I know that he suffered in the crash was a mid-shaft break
of the femur. I do not know if he hit his head, or if he was wearing a
helmet (doubtful). Nobody to my knowledge knows what caused the
accident or if there were any other vehicles involved. To my
knowledge, Jobst has not given any details of what happened, either.
Brad Anders
kolldata
JOBST RAN INTO A CONCRETE WALL ?
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> On 2/9/2011 6:58 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> Yes, bicycle foam hats will do a lot to protect someone hit by a fast
>> moving motor vehicle.
>
> They probably won't help much against nuclear explosions, decapitation
> by angry French mobs or Vogon poetry either. But if I'm sliding across
> the tarmac I'm probably not thinking about French mobs. Vogon poetry
> maybe...
>
>
Jennings, you should be OK.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> On Feb 9, 6:16 pm, Nate Nagel<njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
>
>> thanks for the update, glad to hear that he is making progress even if
>> it is "slowly."
>>
>> Any details on what exactly happened, or is that being kept private?
>
> While there seems to be a lot of conjecture about it, not too much is
> known about the details of the accident. Jobst went out early (~7 AM)
> by himself on a Saturday to do a ride in the Santa Cruz mountains. On
> the way over, he had a single-bike crash at the intersection of Sand
> Hill and Whiskey Hill roads. From what I understand, it appears he ran
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Stephen Bauman
> While there seems to be a lot of conjecture about it, not too much is
> known about the details of the accident. Jobst went out early (~7 AM) by
> himself on a Saturday to do a ride in the Santa Cruz mountains. On the
> way over, he had a single-bike crash at the intersection of Sand Hill
> and Whiskey Hill roads. From what I understand, it appears he ran into
> or slid along the concrete median next to the edge of the road. I do not
> know how he was found, or who called paramedics. The only injury that I
> know that he suffered in the crash was a mid-shaft break of the femur. I
> do not know if he hit his head, or if he was wearing a helmet
> (doubtful). Nobody to my knowledge knows what caused the accident or if
> there were any other vehicles involved. To my knowledge, Jobst has not
> given any details of what happened, either.
>
Let me add my conjecture from the comfort of an armchair at a distance of
3000 miles from the scene. This is based on Google Maps, Google Street
View and DeLorme's Topo USA.
This is a 3-way intersection at the bottom of a hill. There was an
altitude drop of 110 to 140 feet, depending upon which way Jobst was
traveling. I'd therefore assume that Jobst approached the intersection at
a fairly good speed in anticipation of powering up the climb past the
intersection.
The side road (Whiskey Hill Rd) intersects the through road (Sand Hill
Rd) at a 45 degree angle. The turning angle for a right turn onto the
side road would be 135 degrees. They added cut ahead of the intersection
to make for a more gentle turning angle. There is right turn lane before
the cut and a triangle after the cut that blocks the right turn lane. The
triangle is dirt that is separated from the roadway by raised concrete
edging about 2 or 3 inches in height above the roadway.
My guess is that a car turning right passed Jobst before he could move
into the through lane. Moreover, Jobst was probably going around 20-25
mph and the car not much faster. That meant it took a long time for the
car to pass Jobst. I'll also guess that there was a car approaching at
high speed in the through lane, when Jobst finally had clearance to move
left. Jobst did not have enough room or time move to the left by the time
the second car passed him. He was up against the triangle with its 2 inch
raised concrete edging before he could turn right or move to the through
lane.
It's just a guess.
--
Stephen Bauman
DirtRoadie
As noted, Google Earth with Street View enabled lets you see things as
if you were standing there.
Cut and paste "3666 sandhill rd 94062" into the search box.
To the extent that a curb or concrete median is involved, that little
orphan raised island (not the huge triangle) on the marked cross walk
looks awkward with no markings of any sort.
But wouldn't this intersection be familiar to JB?
Obviously just speculating.
DR
Jay Beattie
Yes, the guy has practically worn a rut through that part of the
world. He was riding those routes when I learned about him when I was
a young NorCal rider in the 70s. I think he was in PA back in the 60s
when he road raced against my fifth grade teacher, Bob Tetzlaff (he
loves to tell that epic story). There are just too many imaginary
scenarios, including some entirely unrelated to road features or cars
including TIA, stroke, MI and any of the million conditions that can
afflict persons in his demographic. -- Jay Beattie.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> [...]There are just too many imaginary
> scenarios, including some entirely unrelated to road features or cars
> including TIA, stroke, MI and any of the million conditions that can
> afflict persons in his demographic. -- Jay Beattie.
Kentucky bourbon factor?
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> On 2/10/2011 11:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>> [...]There are just too many imaginary
>> scenarios, including some entirely unrelated to road features or cars
>> including TIA, stroke, MI and any of the million conditions that can
>> afflict persons in his demographic. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Kentucky bourbon factor?
>
Or considering the location, a SLAC experiment location gone wrong?
--
T�m Sherm�n - 42.435731,-83.985007
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> On 2/10/2011 11:28 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
>> On 2/10/2011 11:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>>> [...]There are just too many imaginary
>>> scenarios, including some entirely unrelated to road features or cars
>>> including TIA, stroke, MI and any of the million conditions that can
>>> afflict persons in his demographic. -- Jay Beattie.
>>
>> Kentucky bourbon factor?
>>
>
> Or considering the location, a SLAC experiment location gone wrong?
>
Equestrian attack?
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
Jay Beattie
$southslope.net"> wrote:
> On 2/10/2011 11:28 PM, T m Sherm n _ > wrote:
>
> > On 2/10/2011 11:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
> >> [...]There are just too many imaginary
> >> scenarios, including some entirely unrelated to road features or cars
> >> including TIA, stroke, MI and any of the million conditions that can
> >> afflict persons in his demographic. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> > Kentucky bourbon factor?
>
> Or considering the location, a SLAC experiment location gone wrong?
I used to do the SLAC races -- a crit over the rolling roads around
the control building. There was a 90 degree turn about 100 yards from
the finish and often pile-ups. The last time I did it, I beat Eric
Heiden, who crashed with the front of the pack. Sometimes it pays to
be a crappy sprinter. -- Jay Beattie.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> On Feb 10, 9:36 pm, T�m Sherm�n� �_�<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
Loop Road and/or Pep Ring Road?
Derk
> The side road (Whiskey Hill Rd) intersects the through road (Sand Hill
> Rd) at a 45 degree angle. The turning angle for a right turn onto the
> side road would be 135 degrees.
CSI !
AMuzi
Construction Specifications Institute?
Anton Berlin
I think its a good guess - 100 out of 100 he would negotiate that turn
w/o problems (unless there was recent rains that put debris in the
normally clear roadway)
Examination of the bike might explain what happened best if Jobst
can't recall,
thirty-six
His bald tyres slipped on the greasy road or TIA/stroke are most
likely, then broken brake cable or caliper. As Jobst's bike is so
perfect, I doubt it would be presented for examination. He'd likely,
being an unbiased engineer, examine it himself and give us his
proclamation. Of course in his eyes, he has perfected the wheel, it
cannot be anything to do with wheels or tyres. He has already argued
against me about the frailty of an underspecified head tube and
steerer of excessive length, so it can't be that either. Neither can
it be anything to do with his magical steeing bearing or stem
selection. Must have been something about the bar tape, I can't
remember him making any decisions on that. Fool must have used the
plastic stuff instead of sticking to cotton twill.
Brad Anders
in intensive care who can't respond to you? Like a zillion other guys,
you have argued with Jobst, nobody says he's a saint, but I doubt he'd
be taking pot shots at you if the roles were reversed. Can you
restrain yourself until he's back and you can go mano a mano again?
Thanks.
thirty-six
I wasn't expecting a monitoring service, just parrying the shots of
"NO HELMET"
Jay Beattie
> > $southslope.net"> wrote:
> >> On 2/10/2011 11:28 PM, T m Sherm n _> wrote:
>
> >>> On 2/10/2011 11:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
> >>>> [...]There are just too many imaginary
> >>>> scenarios, including some entirely unrelated to road features or cars
> >>>> including TIA, stroke, MI and any of the million conditions that can
> >>>> afflict persons in his demographic. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> >>> Kentucky bourbon factor?
>
> >> Or considering the location, a SLAC experiment location gone wrong?
>
> > I used to do the SLAC races -- a crit over the rolling roads around
> > the control building. There was a 90 degree turn about 100 yards from
> > the finish and often pile-ups. The last time I did it, I beat Eric
> > Heiden, who crashed with the front of the pack. Sometimes it pays to
> > be a crappy sprinter. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Loop Road and/or Pep Ring Road?
>
Yup, that corner rigt there, IIRC. It looks so different from above.
The watchers were race fans and somewhat jaded. I remember one night
the pack was stuck together for most of the race, and the crowd
started chanting "suck and sprint, suck and sprint." We had some
national class sprinters in there besides Heiden.-- Jay Beattie.
RicodJour
> On Feb 12, 4:48 am, Brad Anders <pband...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Do you really need to take pot shots at a guy who just spent 3 weeks
> > in intensive care who can't respond to you? Like a zillion other guys,
> > you have argued with Jobst, nobody says he's a saint, but I doubt he'd
> > be taking pot shots at you if the roles were reversed. Can you
> > restrain yourself until he's back and you can go mano a mano again?
> > Thanks.
>
> "NO HELMET"
Brad has graciously pointed out that your self-monitoring system is
apparently not functioning.
You can't 'parry' someone who is down, and exercising a little
compassion won't kill you - I promise.
When Jobst is back and hitting on all cylinders, then by all means
feel free to mix it up.
R
Lou Holtman
In a situation like this it becomes clear who is an ass and who is not.
Most of the times I don't know what Trevor is talking about. I blame it
on my comprehension of the English language, but now he can't hide
behind that.
Lou
Tim McNamara
"Steve Freides" <st...@kbnj.com> wrote:
> Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
>
> > In my limited experience with people in ICUs and CCUs, there's
> > sometimes a sort of hospital disorientation effect. People can
> > make significant progress in recovering lucidity so that is to be
> > hoped for, esp. when they can move him out of the ICU.
>
> Although I haven't read them, I have heard from a friend who is a
> geriatric occupational therapist that anesthesia apparently has
> effects that linger, often for months. I saw this recently,
> first-hand, with my father, who is in his mid-80's. It literally was
> a few months until he had all his faculties back - I was doing things
> like laying out his and my mother's pills a week at a time. His
> hospitalization wasn't neurological in nature - apparently it's just
> the anesthesia.
>
> If anyone has any science to confirm/deny/clarify, please share.
>
> I'm not suggesting this is responsible for Jobst's current situation,
> but it may be some part of it.
I have seen this hundreds of times in my practice as a psychologist
working with older adults. There are often multiple contributors,
including the trauma itself (particularly fractures of the long bones
and hip), the anesthesia during surgery (which is basically a brief
induced coma) and opioids post-surgery. Developing a urinary tract
infection is also almost a given (you are usually catheterized for
surgery, introducing bacteria into the bladder) and can cause delirium
as well. Someone else also mentioned the disorienting effects of being
in a hospital, which can also happen.
One cite:
http://www.ejbjs.org/cgi/content/full/88/9/2060
--
"It is not unfrequent to hear men declaim loudly upon liberty, who, if we may
judge by the whole tenor of their actions, mean nothing else by it but their
own liberty � to oppress without control or the restraint of laws all who
are poorer or weaker than themselves." Samuel Adams
Peter Cole
I don't think there's any need to speculate on Jobst's age or potential
head injuries or even lingering effects of anesthesia or hospitalization
when one of the known consequences of femoral fracture is "fat embolism
syndrome", a result of bone marrow lipids circulating in the
bloodstream. Fortunately, the condition is often fully recoverable.
Jobst may technically be a "senior citizen" (whatever that means), but
he's hardly typical. Given his high level of fitness and competence at
cycling, I'm sure that there must be some unusual aspects to this crash
and its aftermath. Besides my concern for his well-being, my other
interest is a self-serving curiosity, in that I'm sure that if it could
happen to Jobst, it could happen to me, and I'd like to glean whatever I
could from it, even while accepting that not all crashes are preventable.
Jay Beattie
> On 2/13/2011 2:39 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
Jobst is currently an inpatient in a rehabilitation facility for
spinal cord and brain injury patients. I doubt he is suffering from
the type of dementia suffered by older patients after surgery. In my
experence dealing with my father and my father in-law, post-surgery or
shock-related dementia was typically treated after hospital discharge
in a skilled nursing facility. I think it is likely that Jobst had a
brain injury of some sort.-- Jay Beattie.
Tim McNamara
Peter Cole <peter...@verizon.net> wrote:
These things are frequently multifactorial and a single specific cause
is never identified. That's all.
> Jobst may technically be a "senior citizen" (whatever that means),
> but he's hardly typical.
LOL! True words there!
> Given his high level of fitness and competence at cycling, I'm sure
> that there must be some unusual aspects to this crash and its
> aftermath. Besides my concern for his well-being, my other interest
> is a self-serving curiosity, in that I'm sure that if it could happen
> to Jobst, it could happen to me, and I'd like to glean whatever I
> could from it, even while accepting that not all crashes are
> preventable.
Jobst has had a tough couple of years in this regard. He was struck,
what about a year ago IIRC, very near his house by a car that turned
across his path and took his front wheel with it. He ended up with some
broken ribs. Seems to me he mentioned that in the newsgroup and it's
lingering effects in terms of his fitness since he was off the bike for
six weeks or something like that.
He also has had two Alps tours cut short by crashes resulting in
fractures- one hip and one collar bone IIRC. In the first one, which
was quite a few years ago, his buddy helped him get back on the bike so
he could coast down the the next town and get medical help.
Some of Jobst's comments:
http://yarchive.net/bike/hip_break.html
I suppose when you ride 10,000+ miles a year decades, your cumulative
risk for injuries goes up.
I hope Jobst is back to his old self soon!
Tim McNamara
<fd8d17a5-76c7-450d...@k17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
Jay Beattie <jbea...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
> Jobst is currently an inpatient in a rehabilitation facility for
> spinal cord and brain injury patients. I doubt he is suffering from
> the type of dementia suffered by older patients after surgery. In my
> experence dealing with my father and my father in-law, post-surgery
> or shock-related dementia was typically treated after hospital
> discharge in a skilled nursing facility.
Terminology discussion here, but then this is what I do for a living.
What you are talking about as a dementia is instead a delirium.
Dementia is a permanent loss of cognitive function whereas delirium is
an acute state with an acute cause or set of causes (drug reaction, for
example).
Not all deliriums resolve completely, unfortunately, at which point the
diagnostic terms changes to dementia. Delirium, particularly when
associated with sepsis, is sometimes a sentinel event heralding the
beginning of a long-term cognitive decline.
However, those are all generalities and none, some or all of that may
apply to Jobst.
> I think it is likely that Jobst had a brain injury of some sort.
There seems to be no confirmation of this as of yet, so it's all
speculation. There are, of course, many kinds of brain injury-
traumatic, encephalopathic, anoxic, vascular, etc. He could be there
because of a spinal cord injury such as whiplash. Until- and if- Brad
is able to tell us specifics we won't know.
Jay Beattie
> In article
> <fd8d17a5-76c7-450d-ab67-ad6a64655...@k17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
It is speculation -- but the cues are not good. He was transferred
from Stanford Hospital to VMC. He is an inpatient. You do not go from
a first-rate institution like Stanford to the VMC rehab unit for a
whiplash injury. I know this because I transferred patients in and out
of that unit when driving ambulance in the SCV thirty years ago. It
was a very serious place, but that is not to say that plenty of
patients did not walk out the front door. And who knows, maybe it has
changed over he years.
By the way, the last call I did to that unit has stuck in my mind -- a
young woman paralyzed after falling off a horse. Her attending was
Donald Prolo, who was a god to the local ambulance community because
he designed our backbaords -- called Proloboards. They were one of
the earliest field-use spine immobilation boards.
In the mid to late 70s, VMC had the only CT scanner in the Valley -- a
giant GE unit. I used to stand in the control room waiting for the
images to compile. They were displayed on a CRT, and the image was
captured with a Polaroid camera on a swing arm. Very low tech. We
often hung around because the patient had to be transferred back to
some other facility -- it was like having a radiology department that
was ten miles down the hallway. The ER was a scary place -- it is the
county hospital and got the dregs. That is where I learned the
miracle of Narcan. -- Jay Beattie.
Peter Cole
All I was saying is that there's at least one scenario that might
explain a long stay in ICU followed by a rehab center, that doesn't
involve direct head impact & brain injury. Fat embolism syndrome can
happen to anyone at any age, particularly with a broken femur. The
emboli can cause both pulmonary and neurological dysfunction, the
neurological being similar to a stroke. I believe the facility he's in
does stroke rehab.
I'm not trying to make a diagnosis, just pointing out the futility of
trying to make one. Even a "simple" femur fracture can have serious
consequences, there need be nothing else involved. I respect Jobst's
privacy, if he chooses to share details some day that would be fine. In
the meantime, I see no point in speculating about his age or helmet
habits. Neurological injury is a particularly sensitive topic, I think
we should respect that, stop speculating, and just wish him a full and
speedy recovery.
AMuzi
Peter Cole wrote:
-snip-
> I see no point in speculating about his age or helmet
> habits. Neurological injury is a particularly sensitive topic, I think
> we should respect that, stop speculating, and just wish him a full and
> speedy recovery.
Excellent path, which I am yet following. Thank you
Dan O
> snip much-Peter Cole wrote:
>
> -snip-
>
> > I see no point in speculating about his age or helmet
> > habits. Neurological injury is a particularly sensitive topic, I think
> > we should respect that, stop speculating, and just wish him a full and
> > speedy recovery.
>
> Excellent path, which I am yet following. Thank you
>
I'm keeping my posts to these threads entirely respectful, too (in
spite of my impulsive nature and people bringing up some generally
contentious points).
(Still sending out those positive waves... )
AMuzi
I've already vented tonight on another topic but this is too
personal for comment or speculation.
kolldata
spec on JB ?
DAMN RIGHT !
old cadaver's gotta be good for something.
let's gom with rec.jobst.blabbercadaver
be lettuce be analytical withe discourse snot mudthrowing as per.
Anton Berlin
> In article <4d52b9a0$0$10609$742ec...@news.sonic.net>,
> scharf.ste...@geemail.com says...
>
>
>
> >On 2/9/2011 7:32 AM, Cicero Venatio wrote:
>
> ><snip>
>
> >> Something don't add up here, and I think it's because of a taboo in
> rbr,
> >> a word no can mention or they'll be scorched by the others, but I'm a
> >> brave and don't give a damn about what the sheep think, so I'll say
> the
> >> word, "helmet??", so there I did it.
>
> >OMG. You're not supposed to talk about that. The times I've seen Jobst
> >out riding he was not wearing a helmet, and that was his choice. No
> one
> >has stated whether or not his accident involved head impact where a
> >helmet would have been beneficial.
>
> >But you're correct, there's kind of a taboo about using the h word
> >whenever some rather famous non-helmeted cyclist is injured or
> worse.
> >The same thing happened with Ken Kifer.
>
> Strictly looking at helmets as a personal decision, one can or cannot
> wear one. However it never is a strictly personal decision as a head
> injury can leave you incapacitated. And then you become a burden on
> others such as your immediate family.
Good point and one I agree with strongly. Sure - it's someone right
but others or society have to pick up after them.
wizardB
> On 2/9/2011 10:32 AM, Cicero Venatio wrote:
>>
>>> I can relate. Broke a tib once. Compound fracture. Full length cast,
>>> toes to top of the thigh. One legged ergo is not fun. Damn that
>>> traffic island and the pole that is mounted in it.
>>>
>>> Sounds like Jobst has some other complications. Nasty business. Hope
>>> he makes a steady recovery.
>>>
>>> JS.
>> ---------------
>> Something don't add up here, and I think it's because of a taboo in rbr,
>> a word no can mention or they'll be scorched by the others, but I'm a
>> brave and don't give a damn about what the sheep think, so I'll say the
>> word, "helmet??", so there I did it.
>
>
> anyone know different?
>
> Steve
>
Heal up quick Jobst summers coming!